 Is that great or what? And I did see National Archives, very small print right in there. A few films in there, photographs. I'd like to welcome to the stage, we're going to have a terrific conversation. We can get our lights up on the stage, that would help me, thank you. Moderating, and I'd like to invite you all to come up to the stage while I'm introducing you. Moderating is Marsha Cook, Marsha's award-winning news and media veteran with a career spanning over three decades. She serves as the Vice President and Executive Producer of ESPN Films in 30 for 30. I might have asked her for an internship when I'm in the back. It's an amazing job. Joining her is Don Porter. Don is the Director of 37 Words, an award-winning filmmaker who is considered a leader in the art of storytelling, directing and producing critically acclaimed projects that have impacted generations of people of all walks of life. In 2021, she directed and executive produced Oprah Winfrey and Prince Harry's documentary on mental illness and mental well-being titled, The Me You Can't See. She also directed the 2022 NAANCP Image Award-nominated Rise Again, Tulsa and the Red Summer, seen on National Geographic. She has two Emmy-nominated documentaries, two-time Sundance Film Festival director and has worked with HBO Discovery PBS among numerous other accolades. And our final participant will look familiar. She was on screen, Donna Diverona at age 13. She was the youngest member of the United States Swimming Team at the Olympic Games in Rome in 1960. I won't go into everything because it was well said in the film, but I will say she did retire at age 17 and began a successful sports casting career. And as you might not know, she helped co-found the Women's Sports Foundation. She's earned many honors for her swimming career and continued advocacy for women's and sports. I cede the stage to Marcia and you all. Thank you. Hi. Hi. I'm actually going to start with a question to the audience. How many of you knew about Title IX before, understood Title IX before this film, before watching this film? All right. Better numbers than usual. Better numbers than usual. I personally think this film is a revelation, having nothing to do with the fact that I work for ESPN. What surprise, what surprises you still? We've now collectively probably seen this film dozens of times. Donna, I'll start with you. What surprises you? I wish I could say that I'm surprised by what's going on, but as one who helped start the Women's Sports Foundation, I was the first president, Philly Jean's the founder. We came to Washington consistently with those women's groups that talked. We were the visual affirmation of what they were fighting for and we could get the press. So we labored a lot on the Hill. In fact, I left television to work in the Senate with Senator Stevens who was given credit in the film because we needed a strong Republican and fortunately it worked all this way to the appropriations. But as one who's been involved in network television, as one of the first pioneering women, all men, most of the time I worked with, as one who kept fighting for Title IX. I mean, you talk about the Tower Amendment or the Javis Amendment. You talk about all the times we had to keep our ear to the ground and understand that there's some legislation coming the way. Supreme Court decision to really eradicate Title IX under Reagan. So I'm not surprised and I was torn apart by the Supreme Court decision rovers way. What I find frightening is I was just at the National Women's Hall of Fame and I inducted me a ham, which was really wonderful to do that. And I had 250 high school students, soccer players, women, in the audience because we gave them a talk. And I asked them, it's the 50th anniversary. There's a birthday out there. What is it? Not one hand. And these aren't shy kids. And then I said, who knows what Title IX is in this audience? Not one player knew. Which, as my daughter said, why don't they teach us about Title IX in school? I think that's a red flag because if we don't know it, we can't protect it. And that's it. So I would like to say I'm surprised, but I'm not. What I am grateful for is that you and ESPN and the sponsors stood up and decided to recapture history and to go back and talk to those women who, thank goodness we have them on film and what their contributions were and what it's like when networks of women get together and we work together to get something done. And we need to do that again. The sisterhood is powerful. It's powerful that it's done because we have captured a piece of history. We've documented it and we needed that. So thank you. When you kind of rewrack the tape in your head thinking back to when you decided to work on this project, what made it potentially even more special for you as you began to kind of unearth and resurrect all of these stories that are related to the birth of Title IX? Well, my first career is I was a lawyer and I practice in D.C. I worked for Baker and Hostetler for five years as a lawyer and I lived here in D.C. And so I'm a geek and I really love archival footage. And I think we're living in a time where we forget some of the details of how progress is made and it's step by step. It's not always giant leaps and bounds. And so what I appreciated is ESPN just called me up and said, would you like to do something about Title IX? And I was like, sure. And I was like, I don't know what they have in mind. But you say yes when you have those opportunities. And what I really appreciated is my team, we came back to them and said, what we really want to lead into is that Title IX is a civil rights law. And so they said, that's great. It doesn't have to be sports. The research shows that the sports battles became the most visible and significant. And that's why there's a misunderstanding that Title IX is all about sports. Those are the things that it's football. People were fighting really hard and really visibly to protect those sports. But the breadth of Title IX in the end, it's the breadth of this law that is so inspiring. So this is four hours. That's the origin stories. Donna said, I really wanted to remind people what it was like. I mean, can you imagine today, law schools with 4% are women? Today, law schools are 54%, or more than 50%, and medical schools are between 54 and 60% female. And that is a direct response of getting rid of those quotas. Allowing women to pursue based on merit. And so that is part of the legacy of Title IX that is so important to emphasize. When you both think about the power of film, you know, Donna kind of just said a pioneer. She was the first female sportscaster, commentator on network television. I remember hearing her voice when I watched Olympiads like in 72 in Munich. But when you think about the power of film, especially when we think about this film, it's what work still needs to be done with these kinds of narrative stories. We got to do this because we attached it to the 50th anniversary, right? So it made it something that was a much bigger initiative. But I'm painfully aware, as we all are, that July 1st, then you have to try and figure out how to keep the story alive. Patrick and the National Archives said we've got this great exhibit. Yes, we can showcase the film again. But what's the work that has to be done to keep these stories alive? Well, we need to tell more stories. I mean, you touched on Wyoming attias. I remember when you guys called me and said, who should we cover and why? And I said, Wyoming attias was the first woman everyone back to back 100 meters. And she's lost a history. And you can't imagine how grateful she is that you brought her back to life. But then you watch the Olympics in Tokyo and they cover women's 100 meters and they don't mention the history. Evelyn Ashford is totally lost. And so we need more women that are working in sports television. And I'm just talking sports now because I think we need to cover all women leaders. But that don't wait 50 years to say, we've got a reason to do it. We need to continue to do it. And I think young men and young women want to see these stories. And there's some beautiful stories about women that go beyond winning. They contribute in so many ways. It's the field of play that launches you into becoming a doctor. Becoming a top coach. Becoming a sportscaster. Becoming a great lawyer. And those stories are there. We've got to find them. But we can't wait until the 50th anniversary to do it. And there's a lot that you did cover in this story. But you couldn't do it all. And I'm sure that was frustrating. It was very frustrating. I mean, what did you leave out that you didn't have time for that you wish could have done? There we go. Sorry. There's the journal right there. Okay. You know, there's a lot. I mean, there's a lot more detail about some of the early battles. Certainly, you know, we had to choose the through line to go through all four hours. So we go from this early history to focusing in the 1970s on Yale University and the women's crew team. The crew team that, I mean, the conditions were abhorrent. And Yale was, you know, really a hotbed of sexism. And those women were treated terribly. So there's one very, you know, really just egregious story of sex harassment that kind of broke our hearts to not include. So that's just one story. But I do focus really and I am really, really happy with the effort to publicize and to disseminate this across the ESPN platforms. So it's on the Disney bundle. So a lot of girls, young girls will see this and representation matters. And I was small and Donna was a sportscaster when she started. But I do remember being a little girl and seeing a woman talking about physical strength and talking about, you know, that type of accomplishment. And, you know, while we always emphasize that Title IX is more than sports, it is really significant in our research. 82% of CEOs, female CEOs say they played some kind of sport at some point in their lives. Really, really interesting. So the lesson of sports confidence in your body, feeling strong teamwork, leadership, all of those things extend beyond, you know, the field or the pool. So Dawn Staley, when we got to talk to her, she said most of her athletes, South Carolina, you know, go lady game cocks. Most of them are not going to play pro. That's not what she's doing. She's educating people and she's raising leaders. And that's what we, you know, really need to focus on. That's part of the opportunity that is missed if we don't assure this opportunity for girls. When you think about these other chapters and though Donna, you were featured in part one, what's your favorite story? And we encourage everyone to watch Parts 2, 3 and 4 to be found on ESPN. Yes. It's definitely hard to pick. So some of them, actually one of the stories, Donna is also in another episode. There was a small but mighty battle that Donna was spearheaded to make sure that Title IX wasn't completely eviscerated. And people don't know that, you know, when small things matter, I mean, we're sitting in the National Archives today. And it's important that records are sent here. It's important that we think about process. Because in order to inspire leaders, you have to demystify action. You have to say, this is what you do tomorrow. You get a group of women in a room and they go around and say, how do I make a small amount of progress? And I don't know if you want to tell the story about you and Julie Fowdy. It's a really important story. Title IX could have, you know, but for these women, we would not have Title IX. And we need to remember that it is all of our responsibility to preserve democracy. I mean, not very seriously. We can't count on somebody else to preserve our rights. So I would love to talk about that. Well, it's a story of Bush 43 who was president, obviously. And Hastert, who was Speaker of the House, was a wrestler. And he blamed Title IX for the demise of wrestling in the United States. But the demise of wrestling wasn't because Title IX had to do with insurance. It had to do with poor leadership. And by the way, it's making a comeback. And now that women are wrestling, it's really making a comeback. But when the president was elected, Hastert went to him and said, you know, you got to look at this Title IX. It's disseminating all, especially my sport. Well, fortunately, I had left television to work in the U.S. Senate to get the Amateur Sports Act passed and also to work on Title IX under Senator Stevens, who was a Republican. He never gets enough credit for what he did, but he was head of appropriations and he could hold people's feet to the fire. So he went to Hastert and said, Hastert, you know, you want to get Title IX. That's not going to happen. But he went around him to the president. And the president called for the appointment of the Opportunity and Athletics Commission. And Stevens said, I know he did this. Donna's got to be on the commission. And I always walked a little bit on the other side of the aisle because we need somebody to do it. And so I got a call. And some of my feminist friends said, you can't go on that commission. That's crazy. It's just a, it's going to whitewash. You're going to be part of something that guts Title IX. I said, well, I learned something from the head of the International Olympic Committee. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer. So I said, I got a call from the White House. Would you go on the commission? And I said, yes, but I will only if Julie Fowdy can come on the commission. Julie Fowdy's Stanford graduate, you know, she was part of the 99ers team. Socrates, she's brilliant. And I wanted an ally because I realized we were up against all Division I athletic directors. And when I went into the commission, you know, of course you get, if it's the Opportunity and Athletics Commission, we have to look at the broad strokes. You know, this shouldn't just be about Title IX. It should be about the fact that most of our kids drop out, women drop out of sports twice as many, twice the number as men at age 14. We've got problems in our, you know, schools. You get access really according to your zip code. Are we going to talk about that? Oh, yes. Well, that was not what happened. The whole idea was to change how the regulations are applied to sports under Title IX. And all the way through, Julie and I battled and battled. We had hearings. The hearings were stacked with people against Title IX. And finally, we argued when we came out with a report for a minority report, because we were the majority, the major report and the minority report. And Rod Page, who is Secretary of Education, said, well, you'll get that. Well, what I did was, with Julie, was, this is again, to your point, I had brought in a Noval Ioudamaquil from Morocco, who won the 400 meter hurdles at the Olympics in LA to meet with us in the Senate dining room knowing that Rod Page would be there. This was right before the commission report was going to be released. And I went over to Rod Page with Senator Stevens and his wife brought a Title IX hat and we put it on his head. And we took this picture with his international athlete. And by the way, at the time, we were getting a lot of press and parents were writing to the White House saying, we want our girls to have sports. Don't change Title IX. I don't think the president really understood what he had gotten into and it was up for election. So they basically, they backed off of the regulations for a while. But we also had an ally in Hillary Clinton who I had worked with on and off for a very long time and she was a senator then. And we held a press conference and we said we are going to submit the minority report in the Senate because Rod Page wasn't going to do it. And we did that. And we had all those contacts because all of us had been toiling in this world since the 70s. I came back from the Munich Olympics after the terrorist attack in the village and I ran into Margo Paulyvee who you saw on the screen and I was trying to get athlete's voice, athlete's rights. And Margo came up to me and said, you're working on the Olympic thing. You've got to know about Title IX. And that's where it all began. But these stories, you couldn't tell that story. It would take too long. But that's how things get done by personal relationships, by having a long relationship with people on the hill. And thankfully we had Senator Stevens in our corner and Birch Bay, by the way, who would sit with us and strategize with us that whole year during the opportunity in Athletics Commission. And so basically nothing happened. But then after the election, the administration did change one regulation and how it applies. And when President Obama was elected, that was rescinded. I think that one of the things that I found most striking in this particular episode was the kind of coming together of someone like Birch, enlightened by his wife and all of the brilliant women, but also then the story of Bunny. I mean, Bunny could have been a Supreme Court justice. So again, finding those wonderful nuggets, those stories, but also reminding people that it was just 50 years ago. That's the thing that I still can't quite wrap my head around. Yeah, there's a remarkable amount of progress, both in women in all fields, all professional fields. I think one of the other things that's so exciting to me also as a lawyer is how Title IX protects against sex harassment. Yes. There's a big Supreme Court case, Aurelia Davis, a young girl who was being harassed by a peer. And Verna Williams, the National Women's Law Center, who worked with Marsha Greenberger. Her mother was a mailroom worker, and she said, that's not right, that my daughter can't go to school and get an education because the kid next to her is grabbing her breasts and saying, making sexual remarks. These are 10-year-olds. And so that case established that child on child sex harassment is actionable under Title IX, because you can't get an education if you're being harassed. So the sex harassment discussion that we have also has its basis in those 37 words. And I think that that's just remarkable, that from Bunny's aha moment in her dining room, that we have many cases that have gone to the Supreme Court. The last episode deals with the effort by girls to, we are still fighting these battles today. And so one of my favorite stories is these girls in the Pacific Northwest, $100 million renovation of their high school. They're promised a softball field and the boys are getting a professional baseball field. And when I say professional, it's like wired for internet. It's lights at home. It's all Friday night lights for baseball. And the girls are going to get a softball field. Plans go, budget cuts go, time goes. What goes first? The girls' facility, the softball field. They cut it. And so the coach who had been working for the school, had been a good soldier for more than two decades, just really was upset. She motivated the parents. They agreed to sue under Title IX. So they sue their go to settlement. The settlement is build the field. It's not money. It's build the field. Like we just won our field. Because the girls were playing in a public park, which was dangerous. There were dips. There's dog poop. Like it's just like home plate isn't lined up with the batter, with the pitcher mound. Like it's insane. So the lawyers representing them, they settle. And the settlement is that the girls' field would get built. And the lawyers are really smart. The lawyer said, all right, well, that's great. But the boys can't plan their beautiful field until the girls' field is done. And so my co-director, Nicole Noonam, who lives on the West Coast, couldn't be here tonight. But so Nicole goes with our cameras. And we film and we're doing stuff. And we asked. We're good journalists. We asked the school board for comment. And they said, we'll get back to you. And the next time Nicole went back, there were some diggers there making that field. And so, but it was teenagers. Those are the plaintiffs. And the teenagers of today are just not going to accept inequality. They just won't accept it. And I think that of all the accomplishments of Title IX, part of it is that inspiration. Is that saying, you don't have to accept that. And that power and that feeling of victory, we'll not get to play on the field. They will graduate before it's done. But each and every one of them, and this happened with so many of the women that we interviewed said, this isn't about me and facilities for me. It's about who's coming next. And I think that that too is so hopeful and powerful. And really, it was why it was such a joy to work on this. I can tell. One of the things that I heard after people saw the film in its entirety was thank you. So I want to say thank you to the both of you. Thank you. And I'd like to ask if folks in the audience have a question or two for Donna or Dawn. Yes. Hi. Do you have a question? Oh, there it is. I was like, where? Yeah. I loved in the film how not only did you talk about the advocacy, which I think young people know all about today, but you also highlighted stealth and data research. What do you think is the most sort of underappreciated lesson of Title IX that today's change makers could use? What do you think is something that they should be taking notes on and saying, let's try that that maybe doesn't get as much attention, but from your experience and what you saw really works? I mean, the big thing is you don't have to shout to be powerful. Is that sometimes it's better to be quiet at first and get your bill passed. And so, you know, I think DC audiences usually have some familiarity with the legislative process. And so you'll understand an education bill is a must pass. You can't not fund federal education. So there's no way that that bill is going to fail. And so like the really intelligent strategy of just making sure it's there. And I think, you know, I do a lot of films. I've made a film about John Lewis. I've made a film about many other advocates. And one thing they always emphasize is get the first W. Get that first win and build. You don't have to win the whole banana. You want to keep going and going and going and building. And so thinking that long term strategy, I mean, Donna, you know, talked about working from the 1970s. She's still working today. So, you know, this is a lifelong and you will see Billy Jean like is just throughout our series. She advocates constantly and consistently for equality writ large. And so I think, you know, understanding that most struggles for human rights and equality are interrelated. And so I love what I love is seeing the women say the civil rights movement did this. What applies to our struggle and how can we advance that? So I love learning about that. I think what you see and what you just alluded to is the networking and the reaching out to other groups and planning. And I also think data is really important. One of the things that when I... We'd always have to come up with these arguments about why we should play. And we were able early on to get some studies with Nike and other organizations to really sit down and say, well, as far as sports is concerned, why? You know, what is it... What does it offer? Well, we know that young girls that play sports are more likely to graduate, reach their higher levels of positions in the corporate world, earn more money, and it goes on and on and on. But when I started working with Ernst & Young, I had this idea that I wanted to help women athletes transition out of sports into professions. And we didn't know what the real numbers were about how does this experience impact our economy because that's what Ernst & Young was interested in. Because they have the Winning Women program and it's mostly women entrepreneurs. And we found out and used the statistic that 94% of women in C-sweets in the corporate world have had a sports background and 50% competed in college. Well, that's powerful. And that was all new. And that just opened up our ability to reach out to corporations and get them to support us. So when you want to get your point across and it's part of marketing and strategy, but you need to do that. And that was really helpful in getting sponsorship and support. Dueling microphones. Hello. First off, thank you very much. I took sports law in college and vaguely remember Title IX, but this was very illuminating and I think just helps to really educate truly what it's all about. Seventh grade daughter playing volleyball and just touches home with looking at the way the boys are treated versus the girls. I just wanted to ask, I'm from San Antonio, Texas and the Final Four was held there frequently. And I don't know if you all remember, but recently some of the female basketball players were taking pictures and sharing on social media how the weight room for the female athletes was a few dumbbells on the floor versus the men. So obviously this is still a fight that continues to be had. Just wanted to see if you could comment on how it looks and then throwing in the transgender athletes and how that complicates Title IX or doesn't in you all's view. Do you want to talk about the final basketball? Well, first of all, I have to be positive and talk about how our decisions here and what we do for our collegiate athletes has really made an impact in the international community. I mean, we almost have 49% of women on the field to play during the Olympic competition. When I competed, you know, we were less than a third and we didn't have professional sports. So there's been a springboard. What you're looking now, though, is a real shifting of alliances and rules within the collegiate community which could have a big impact on where I'm very focused, which is Olympic sports. The Olympic and Paralympic Committee Executive Award. And with the name Image and Likeness Ability for athletes to bring in revenue, it could create a very big disruption and it presents problems of credibility and I also think corruption because some of these organizations are creating agencies where they're negotiating with athletes to come to schools and some of these schools, some of these organizations which used to be booster clubs are, you know, really unbalancing the scales when it comes to that environment. Also you see the shifting of alliances. You saw Stanford and UCLA decide to go out of the Pac-10 and move into the Pac-12. What kind of impact is that going to have? So I think when we're looking at the collegiate environment we're looking at just a lot of things that we have to focus on and I think the big impact will be on women's sports and Olympic sports because if the schools could have it Stanford dropped 11 sports during COVID and they were all Olympic sports. Fortunately because there's advocates at schools the students stood up and I will have to mention Nancy Hogg said was very much involved in passing the SAFE Sport Act in Congress was able to push back at Stanford and they were able to reinstate with the leadership of one of the trustees those 11 sports. But not every school is going to have that. So I think that from an Olympic perspective we're really being challenged. You know, at the elementary junior high and high school level female participation in athletics is through the roof. It is, you know and Birch Bay said this at the beginning you know it's kind of if you build it they will come and they did. And so girls are participating earlier which means they're getting better and stronger and so they're able what we also see is you know this increase in women's teams. So there's a place to go after you've had a college career. There's the WNBA there's women's pro soccer so there's just all this opportunity. So we definitely have seen the legacy of Title IX as increased participation and that extends, we don't have equality though. We just have to look at Brittany Greiner and the fact do you think they would keep Michael Jordan in Russia? I think they would keep Michael Jordan away. So there's work to do. I tend to be a person who likes to look at the work that has been done and the possibility for the future. So you know that's kind of where I keep my focus. Our episode four focuses on the conversation around trans kids. A lot of attention is paid to you know like Leah like swimming and at those higher levels. So we have a robust conversation about trans identifying kids participating in elementary school and in junior high school. And so you know I think that those are necessary conversations about just what participation means and then it actually does what it does is it brings the focus back to education which is where it should be instead of to the very elite class who have a big debate about participation. I think you said the most important thing is that we have to have the dialogue. And up until now there's been a great reaction on both sides. And I've been part of a working group where we've been having dialogues and we're getting better at it. But there's a great amount of confusion about how do you accommodate every child in our schools that are federally funded and how do you protect 50 years of high school and what does that mean? And does it mean that the women's categories should be totally open from every age or is puberty an issue? Every sports federation is going through this process right now all over the world. And it's going to take time to find the solution. Hi. Hi. Thank you for this outstanding production. Quick question on the Tennessee track team. They were all on scholarships, weren't they? Yes. That's pretty amazing at a time period when women weren't getting anything like that. I wonder if you could comment a little bit more about what you learned, what you saw on that. It was fantastic. You're talking about the Tiger Bells. Tiger Bells. Ed Temple. Ed Temple. And Ed Temple was just one of those committed coaches just made it happen. Went to Tennessee State, Wilmer Rudolph, Willie White. Great. In fact, in 1960 when I was 13, I walked up to the women's track team and I met Erling Brown, Willie White, Wilmer Rudolph and we became friends forever. And that was just one little pocket where a guy was passionate and he helped elevate all women in track and field. But that was not this case across the country. It was a very special program. And it's a story that really should be told in its entirety. I traveled with Wilmer all over the country when Humphrey was vice president in a special program called Operation Champ and we'd go into inner cities and give clinics and work with Vista and Head Start and it was an incredible program. It was a great program. I just wish it had continued because it was the right answer to go into the inner cities with these athletes and work with kids. Another favorite moment which is why it's like too hard to... So one of the things ESPN did is when the film was just, the series was coming out, was an installation celebrating women in sports through history. Physical installation. I think it was one of the first times she... ESPN blew it out. They made a wheel. There was a full large banner. Not as big as the one outside here, but really, really large. And then footage of her races and she cried. And it's because she wasn't doing it for recognition. She was doing it because she was talented. She was doing it. She loved it. She was doing it from the scholarship. But that recognition helps. It matters. Two-time Olympic gold medalist, back to back. Only person in history to have that accomplishment. First in history. It should be celebrated. I was really, really happy that ESPN did that for her. It was... It was an extraordinary moment. She really did get weepy. She didn't know it was going to be there. We invited her to come over and see it. Then we got that reaction. We should have filmed that. That's what always happens. Hi. Hi. I had a question about how, obviously at the time, for women alone to get actual policies changed due to the fact that it was almost entirely men in the government. But beyond that, how do you have... How do you get people to be interested in a cause that doesn't necessarily affect them? I know nowadays there are so many people campaigning for so many different things we need to change in this world. It can be hard to find people who still have the emotional capacity to care about the thing you're trying to get changed. That's a good question. That's a great question. I do think people can get cause fatigue. That's real. I think all of us... You pick up the newspaper and it's climate and war and racism. I make a lot of films about these things. So I have found that the most effective advocacy tool I've found is finding the commonality which often is humanity. I'll give you an example. I made a film called Gideon's Army about public defenders and it's an all-varity film so there's not interviews. So we were following this kid and he was a kid who was arrested. There was no evidence that he had committed this crime but he couldn't pay bail and so he was in jail. He finally through... His mother literally worked three jobs to make bail, to get her kid out because a lot of people plead guilty because they can't stand being in jail. So what I'm telling that story it's the question you're asking. I'm like, how do you get people who don't have a kid in jail to care about this poor kid? So when we went to his house I asked his mother the question that every person in here who's ever come across a baby what was Demantes like as a child? And she said, oh, Demantes was a very good baby. He would sleep and he would... So there's two kinds of babies. There's the babies that sleep and the babies that don't. And so people started to say Demantes was the baby who slept and so they're like, he's so good. What it does is it flips the switch. He's not a black kid in the bad neighborhood in Atlanta with his pants down and tattoos. He's the baby. And then she starts talking about him as a child. And everybody has that impulse that we can agree that we protect children. He's 16, he's still a child. And so finding that commonality but I think also like meeting people where they are nobody likes to be lectured. So a lot of what I like to do in films is to present people as honestly and to let them come through and speak with their voices and then whatever you take from it you take from it. Not having an overt like... Well I'm just going to throw in that that's the beauty of a really terrific filmmaker who is looking at individuals through their aspirations not framing them by what may be perceived as their circumstances at that time. That's a huge kind of difference when we think about film. I just wanted to throw that in just because it was the right time. Is there one more question? Hi, thank you for coming. It was more statements than comments but part of it was perhaps because my mother played basketball she didn't mention until maybe freshman in high school she asked us why we didn't play basketball. We said why? She said because I played basketball and she graduated in 1948 in a tiny town in North Dakota. I don't know if she played full or half court but she did play. I didn't know that quite somebody asked me I had no idea that they played half court so some people did even in the 40s in a little tiny town that never had more than 400 people in North Dakota. The other one is I grew up over the hill from Mill Valley which is the girl that had sued to get girls into Little League. I was already swimming at that time I didn't care about Little League but my sister did play. I think some of it is maybe how you grew up so I grew up maybe in the right place at the right time. I later swam since you would know the Anchorage swim club Summer League. At that time Barbara Boxer was on the county board and Diane Feinstein was the mayor in San Francisco so it end I don't know if you know Ron Dellums was the representative in Oakland and Willie Brown was there so to me women and minorities in positions of power was normal. I had to leave the Bay Area to get to find out it wasn't normal. Swimming or not swimming but sports and girls it might depend on where you grew up because I had grown up in probably rural Alabama I probably would not have had the same opportunities so some of it might be connected to now people have more opportunities and they see what girls and women can do and now you have more people who have had that experience that can help it going forward. Thank you. It's where you grew up and it's when you grew up. So if the teams are there you can when I was you're offered are you going to do this or this it's not whether it's which one are you going to do. I will also just tell you very quickly my older son we were making a film and we were filming Eric Holder when he was Attorney General and he's making a speech and we're sitting at the table and they sat us at the table with the luminary Patrick who's the governor of Massachusetts and so I'm like Barack Obama's president we're sitting at the table with Deval Patrick who's the governor of Massachusetts and Eric Holder speaking so I'm like so proud as a mother I put this evening together for my nine year old child to see and I said Eli who's my kid I said what do you notice about the Attorney General and he goes he's got a mustache and I thought okay like he doesn't but for him the president's black the governor of Massachusetts is black Eric Holder is black like the thing that's interesting is the mustache that's great and you know it would be nice if we could get to a place where like for women and for you know for all people that like that's the interesting thing so this too wow well I don't know about you but I think this was a wonderful conversation thank you thank you to Marcia, Don and Donna and thank you all for coming as previously advertised there are three other episodes check them out I promise you will they're equally as engaging brings it forward to today so thank you again so much thank you