 Hi, so what happened is I had a conversation that was a follow-up to the video that I made about Having an explosive child and I wanted to interview an expert to get their perspective on what we could be doing differently and possibly better for our kids and initially when I did this conversation I did it by myself but as Making videos sometimes does the audio didn't come through then I thought to myself It's actually for the best because for me to be having a conversation about my kids that my kids being present is kind of rude So we're going to re-film the conversation that I had with Jess the questions I asked her but this time With the people that I asked her about being present does that sound good? So this is Ryu this is Ziya now meet our expert Jess I am a registered psychotherapist from Canada and I run the page nurtured first nurtured first is all Supporting parents caregivers educators. We share parenting resources and tips and support for all different struggles with kids behavior all the way to parents mental health and I just live and breathe this material. I also have three young girls myself I have a one-year-old a three-year-old and a six and a half year old so Parenting talking about child behavior is my life and I love it And so I'm really pumped to be here with you today This video is brought to you by Squarespace an all-in-one website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online Whether you're just starting out or managing a growing brand Squarespace makes it easy to create a beautiful website or Engage with your audience and or sell anything from products to content to time all in one place all on your terms Go to Squarespace comm slash Shambhudi to start your free trial No credit card required and when you are ready to launch Make sure you go back to Squarespace comm slash Shambhudi because that is how you get 10% off the purchase of a website or a domain So right right go Zai Okay, so right Jess is not only a therapist who works with kids and specializes in working with kids She also has three kids of her own so I asked her to describe her three kids And then I thought about how I would describe my two kids So first I wanted to ask you how would you describe yourself? You are very generous. That is true How else would you describe yourself here comes as I do want to share with Ziya? You do Yes, not very adaptable. That's also how I would describe you Ziya I would describe you as very warm and caring very adaptable very flexible Very easy going Not as Independent although you're doing a bomb-ass job right now. Look at this one-year-old Zipping down the slide. You need a little help though, right? Go Zai Zai My oldest I would describe her as me but better so she She is so similar to me in so many ways and when I see her I think of myself as a child She has she cares so deeply. She's incredibly wise some of the things I'll share sometimes some of the things that she says to me and people won't believe it They're like there's no way a six and a half year old said that and I'm like well You just have to meet her like she's so wise. She's such a deep thinker She struggles with worry and anxiety and I recognize that Because I really struggled with that as a kid She has this deep craving to be good and to be in good relationship with us And I remember feeling like that as a kid. So she's very similar to me my second child She is our firecracker. She is From the day she was born she was loud but she just has this loud energy to her very strong willed but smart and Kind and sensitive and in tune with things a lot of other kids aren't So I love her my third is one and a half and Scott describes her Described her the other day as a golden retriever and I just thought that was the best description I had ever heard of her. She's just sweet. She's a third baby. She's so happy Everything anyone does is just a smile and just oh, okay Like she's just happy go lucky And I feel like I'm still getting to learn her because and I know you have a child the same age And it's fun this age because I feel like you're just kind of getting to know the essence of who they are So yeah, I really love this age Yeah, so that's a really quick description of the three I think that parents can reflect on that question especially if they have multiple kids and think about how can I Support my unique child and not necessarily have this blanket approach to parenting But think about your each child and the needs and concerns and issues like my oldest for example with worry My second daughter doesn't struggle with that and she's three and a half and by the time my oldest was three and a half She was already waking up with nightmares and she was waking up She would be really worried and deeply concerned about like something happening in her life And I mean for her 2020 happened right in that time So I think that there's a big piece of that there as well But my second daughter doesn't think about that but she has huge explosive meltdown So I think it's really important to think about the uniqueness of all your kids because it can help you parent them In a way that works best for them right off the bat what you said about your two kids and they're two different personalities I think should be talked about and I think that's temperament and so there is Three different temperaments that had kids are born with and there's actually a lot of research on this topic And so one of them is This like active temperament and that's what it sounds like your oldest child has and my middle child has this active temperament too and alongside of that can be this this deeply Sensitive kind of nature so it sounds like she might be and again This is not like a clinical diagnosis or anything But she might be highly sensitive and have more of this active temperament And so one of the the telltale signs of that is that when they're babies, they're loud They're crying more than maybe their siblings did they have a harder time to settle and then as they move into the toddler years They can get really easily overstimulated They can be Overwhelmed by let's say you are having a big feeling yourself like you're feeling really Upset or grumpy and then they just feel that like they can latch on to that My oldest daughter was a more mild temperament and it's exactly like you described where she's very easy going She she was easy even as a toddler. She sometimes had tantrums, but honestly, they were they were never too bad And so I thought to myself, oh, you know, I must be nailing this whole parenting thing Like obviously, I know exactly what I'm doing, you know And then my second daughter came around and I was doing the exact same parenting tools that I literally teach to parents all of the time and It was different the response from her was different from the moment we brought her home. She was loud She was busy. She had a hard time settling her body if the environment was over Over-stimulating like even the TV show is too loud She'd have she'd have a meltdown and it took me a while to Start to see in her that she did have this active temperament And I agree with you that shifting your mindset because I know you were talking about the language of explosive children or Maybe defiance shifting your mindset I think is the first thing for for you or for any parent that has a child of that temperament to Remember that the child is not bad and it's not that they're trying they're out to get you But they might require a different a different type of parenting to really help them work through those meltdowns So I have a question for you when you say that ryu is Having a hard time having big meltdowns. Maybe doesn't want to listen. What does that look like? So the question that just had for me is what do ryu's meltdowns look like and I tell you what they don't look like they don't look like I Guess it kind of looks like that That's okay munchkin come here come play with me. Let's make a cake come here. Come get some come get some cake Come get a piece of chocolate cake for me I'd love to make it together. Yeah, ryu's meltdowns if you can't find a solution that she thinks is Better or equivalent to her idea can last a long time. They can get Pretty aggressive I'm pretty loud and they can be very frequent. I will say that that they can Be minutes apart. Sometimes you'll go through days where you only have one or two, but there are days where they're Every ten minutes for kids who are strong willed or have as we call it And this is a term coined by one of my favorite researchers who's Gordon Neufeld is this counter will and so basically to describe Counter will is you ask your child to do something like get on a schedule and your child immediately has this This counter will just says no, I'm not gonna do that And so it can feel like as a parent every time you say something or you give them a direction There's this this will that's like pushing against everything that you say and it sounds like that's the case for her and and that daycare as well, so One of the things that we really want to look at is how can we include her in the plan? Even for Scott like he was that child and he sees that in our child too And and I remember like we had this conversation of wow we yeah When we look at our child and we think about maybe how our parents would have navigated that would been like well We want to we want to crush that out of them or we we want we can't have them This is disrespectful this behavior is disrespectful So I think it makes a lot of sense that that you tried those approaches And I think I have a ton of grace for parents who have because that's what we've been taught to do so one of the things that I really think about in terms of all children is Building the solid relationship first and I know especially for active children who maybe were coliki as a baby It can be really hard to even open yourself up to that relationship at times because They are so difficult and it can be really triggering for us And I'm just wondering for you as you Approach like when you went from that baby time when she's like screaming as a newborn She's always upset. You're like the sky is blue and life is beautiful. Why are you upset? To a toddler who's having a lot of tantrums. How did it feel for you? And if this is too personal, I totally understand too How did it feel for you to try and build that relationship with her when you were having so many of those barriers? Like the tantrums and the crying and all of that How is Ryu and I's relationship? How's our relationship, baby? I think that we are utterly obsessively, passionately, absolutely, positively, certainly in love. I think that we're super in love What's wrong? Come on Why you hurt? Your lips hurt Did you get the sand? I've been in love with you and obsessed with you from the moment that you came into this world and you've been exactly the same this whole time For better or worse We're in this together You want to go look in the mirror? Okay, go stick in the mirror That's what I was saying to you guys I recently used Squarespace to purchase a site for our professional emails and for our production company And then I also used that same website their domain shared entertainment comm to start their appointments feature Which has been a game changer for me I thought I needed an assistant at one point, but this just makes it so easy to manage now Squarespace provides everything You need to manage your business to accept secure payments to send automatic reminders And of course to beautifully showcase your services and more using their website platform But it's so much more than that and speaking of beautiful you really have to check out their fluid engine This is their next generation website design system that allows you to unlock Unbreakable creativity from your browser or do it all from your phone Lastly, if you have been considering doing merch like I have and top of next year y'all hold me to it I really think I should do this. I think that I've got some interesting things to share with the world That's me saying it Squarespace can help you do that They can actually help you to design your products handle production inventory and shipping again when we think I want to do it But I don't know how or with who see if Squarespace can fill that gap for you again e-commerce I can go on and on about their services So if any of this has piqued your interest go to Squarespace comm slash shambhudi to start your free trial No credit card required for this just play around see what's options What's available for you and when you decide you want to launch what you have made in your free trial Go to Squarespace comm slash shambhudi and get yourself 10% off the purchase of a website or a domain Yeah, I think that that that speaks a lot to the common experience to of we're really close But then it's also hard at times to be a leader and so I think the strong willed active kids They they need those two things and it sounds like you have the relationship Like you have that unconditional love and intimacy which makes total sense And they need a leader and I think the leadership part can be the really tricky part because Strong-willed kids or active kids they act like they want to be the leader So they try and tell us what to do and they try and tell us How to operate and then I think what can often happen and I'm not saying this is the case for you But I know even in our own home is that we become afraid of their emotions And we become afraid of their meltdowns or their tantrum So we kind of let them take the lead But that responsibility is a lot for them and I know I'll give an example I see that with my three-year-old she'll come home from school and she's so Disregulated usually by that time by the time she comes home from daycare because she's exhausted. It's been a long day She's had to be The best version of herself all day and by the time she gets home She's ready to meltdown and and kind of explode it for lack of a better word, which is okay But sometimes I'll do things that she says just to try and avoid the meltdown Which will inevitably happen anyway, and then I'm putting her in a position of leadership And I'm taking myself out of that position and it can be really tricky then to get back into a position of leadership So a few ways that we can get back into the position of leadership with kids One of them is if you know that they have not had a meltdown yet or that that might happen It's even welcoming the tears before they have an explosion So for my daughter when she gets home from school and this feels really counter-intuitive I'll know that she basically has to have a meltdown She has to release these tears that she's held in all day before she can move on and have her snacks So I will get down on her level and I'll say to her ha I'm like you had a big day at school How is your school day? What what happened today and I'll try and give her a hug and I'll try and co-regulate and And give her space to have tears or talk about her day before she moves on and I know for a lot of parents It's like what you want them to cry, but tears is one of the most important things that kids need So that can be one one way that we can take the leadership role The other way is we can help them Come up with you're talking about schedules, so if they need to have a bit of a routine I like the idea of Building in routines versus schedules because I feel like for our active or strong-willed kids as soon as they're thinking to themselves Ah, I have to do this at 9 a.m. And then this at 9 15 It just becomes too much and then you're gonna get that counter will again and they're gonna fight back against you So I like to include them in the process as much as possible. I'm leading it I'm saying hey, we want to have a morning routine something that feels good for both of us because in the morning It doesn't feel good when I feel like I'm nagging you all morning So why don't we come up with a morning plan together and then I'll get my daughter to tell me What are the things that we do in the morning? Maybe you could remind me and I'll get her to tell me okay Well, we wake up and we'll write it down we wake up and then okay so we wake up what's next and then she'll tell me what's next we'll write it on the routine and Having her come in and help me with a plan that can be really helpful as well And then I'll give you one more insight and then I want to get your thoughts on if you think this would be helpful or not When you know what the next activity is coming or when you know You're gonna have to transition because it sounds like for Ryu. It's that Adaptability piece that can be really hard. I would either a give them a time not a warning But a notice or a reminder. Hey, we're gonna be moving to dinner time soon And I know that that's really tough because right now you're watching TV and TV is so fun So do you want to help me set a timer on my phone for 10 more minutes of TV time? Or do you want to just finish the rest of the episode? That's up to you How do you want to finish the episode or do you want to set a timer giving them choice and control and letting them know that? The next thing is coming while you're still in control like you're still in that leadership role that can be really helpful, too What just said about timers I definitely here We haven't really tried that yet a part of me kind of feels like shouldn't they respect your word versus like some arbitrary timer But it's worth giving a shot for the leadership part definitely hit home for me because Ryu in particular Gets already so frustrated all day long I try my best not to add to that frustration and to appease her which makes me wonder if I am failing her in being a leader But also learning how to be a specific leader that she needs is a learning curve. I I Always think of this this story and so this last spring my daughter my youngest my baby she was in the hospital for a few days and When I was in the hospital with her she had croup and she was she was so so sick It was really scary And when I was in the hospital with her every nurse said to me and you're so strong like how are you not crying and sad? And I was like, no, I've got this I've got this and I was just being like this strongest version of myself I was at the hospital with her because I had to be and then all of a sudden We're there overnight. It's a long night. I'm still being strong I'm almost being too strong where I'm being a little feisty to the nurses Like, you know, you better listen to me kind of thing And then the next day my mom walks into the hospital and she walks in she walks into the room And I just lose it like I just start bawling my eyes out. I'm so upset but it's because I finally was in the presence of someone that I felt safe with and I felt like I could fall apart with her and I always think about that and I mean That's my experience as an adult a grown woman with our children and I think that when they're at school all day, they hold it together so well and they bump their toe or they have to share their toy or Like you were talking about routine and schedule They have to stop playing with something fun to go play with something else and they have to hold it in And then the second they get home They're with you and they feel safe and they're in that intimate relationship with you and they can finally let it go But sometimes letting that go for kids because they don't have the ability to regulate themselves looks like Screaming looks like explosive behavior. It looks like finally letting out all those nose that they had to hold in all day Like they couldn't tell their teacher no but they can sure tell you know a hundred times at night and so then we see that as bad and A lot of the times and then we can start to punish them for that which can just lead to some really Challenging kind of dynamics in the home Whereas if we can see that as ah, they're safe. They're letting out all this behavior They've been holding in all day. We can actually move through it a lot quicker I would try this while she's not actually having a challenging behavior or a meltdown in the moments that she's having a meltdown I would focus more on just helping her through it allowing her to release the feeling It may be reminding her of some of these pieces, but when you're just out in your day-to-day life I would just make observations So for example, I was in the grocery store the other day with my kids and there was a child who was melting down in the grocery store And so I just noticed it to them and I said hey Did you see that that little boy was having a meltdown? Hmm I wonder what was going on for him And I wonder do you think it was okay that he was hitting his mommy during a meltdown? Like do you think how do you think that made the mommy feel and then we even had a chance to see it in action So I said, oh, do you notice like everybody else's face when they're noticing that this little boy is having a meltdown? Like what do you think that they're thinking and so we were able to just have this reflection on this situation That was happening in the grocery store when we are completely outside of the moment So it helped my child to see it from a different perspective And I think that that type of like really shame-free Language noticing people's reactions or even if someone was grumpy like I've had I mean I feel like I have all these experiences in the grocery store because I'm We live near a grocery store and I'm there pretty often with my kids But I feel like we saw this man an elderly man And he was just in a really grumpy mood And so that was another experience for them to to get curious about why someone might be in a grumpy mood in The grocery store and and is it okay to be grumpy? Yeah, it totally is okay to be grumpy Is it okay to be mean to people when you're grumpy? No, and and why not? How did that make the other person feel so? I think what you're on to is this idea of you want your daughter to be able to start to notice Interactions with people that she's having in the world and and how things make other people feel which I think is really important And I think in the moment when you're trying to do that if she's already flooded with emotion Like so if she's already having a huge meltdown or really overwhelmed I think it it might be too much for her to process in that moment So it might not be the most effective use of the tool because she her brain can't really think logically yet at that time so having a lot of words or a lot of demands on her Might make her just more overwhelmed and have a meltdown for longer We use a phrase at nurtured first which is called teach them when they're teachable And that's kind of exactly what I've been describing here and that phrase is basically in when they're having meltdowns They're not teachable their brain actually can't access logic and reasoning So the best time to teach them is when they're calm Yeah, I'm on the phone. Just having a little chat I'm having a little chat. Do you want some olive oil? Yeah, yeah, come here munchkin All right, come say hi baby watch a little footsies Something that I've definitely been struggling with is Ryu and Ziya's relationship Which has its moments But there's definitely a lot more moments where their relationship is contentious and in some cases dangerous What do I do as a parent to not make them resentful of each other because every time they're together someone gets in trouble Yeah, I mean so many things I could share I'll share a couple that might be really helpful for you First off, I think in the sibling dynamic it can be really difficult But they the younger sibling and the older sibling really needs the parent to take that leadership role So when you're seeing if if your oldest is trying to hurt the baby or snatch toys from the baby She your oldest is she's still little She's just three her brain doesn't have the ability to again think logically through these things like oh if I take the toy Then my sister's can be mad and I don't want my sister to be mad or if I hit my sister That's not very nice So they really need you to come in and act as that logical brain And so sometimes that can just look like saying hey, I can't let you take that toy for your sister I'm gonna need you to find another toy here. Let me help you let's find another toy that you can play with and then maybe she's really upset about that and then it's allowing that feeling and Yeah, doing that in a really shame-free way, which can be really difficult I know that I've struggled with that as well because my middle child and my baby have Have had a similar kind of dynamic that can be really difficult to walk into as a parent but really what they need to know is that when they aren't able to control their impulses like when my Middle child was not able to stop herself from hitting her baby sister She really needed to know that I would step right in right in the middle of the two of them and say I won't let you hit your sister and that was actually really loving even though She would have a tantrum about it or a meltdown because I know that at the end of the day She doesn't want to hit her sister and when she does she actually feels a lot of shame about it And that was something I wanted to say too about the active and sensitive kids They will often act as the kids that don't feel shame or that don't take things on super sensitively But my theory is that these are the kids who are the most sensitive and who are really really impacted by other people's emotions So sometimes I would just say I know you love your sister and I know you don't want to hurt her But it's really hard to control your body right now So I'm just gonna give you a hug until your body feels safe again things like that to just Get in the middle of the two of them and and give them that space could be helpful Does that feel like something that would be doable or how do you think they would respond to that? One of the things that I really tried to be mindful of is that With time Ryu seems to be getting more strategies and I think that we're It helps that we're definitely trying a lot of stuff But I also want to be mindful of not giving up on things too easily if I don't see The change that I want. Let's be honest. That's what it's really about. I don't really know. She could be perfectly happy The change that I want in her so that Patience and resilience and stick-to-itiveness to the principle something that I'm definitely trying to work on while also Keeping an open mind to other things that could work to bring more harmony More safety and more enjoyment to all members of the family while Acknowledging that each family member has a different definition of what that means. I Totally understand that I remember when my baby was born and my toddler had such a hard time and I just Remember nights and she wasn't sleeping well at the time. She was so sensitive She was so impacted but it came out in in hitting and trying to hurt the baby and trying to hurt me and having tantrums all The time and I remember thinking to myself because I've done this work now for so so long like just you just got to keep doing it You got to keep holding the boundaries Validating her feelings you got to keep giving her ways that she can have power. We haven't talked about that too much but when you have a Active child who has a lot of that counter will they need places where they can feel like they're in full control So I would give her jobs I would give her things that she could tell me what to do sometimes we play a game What that I call the kids are the boss where she would just for five minutes Tell me anything to do like walk backwards walk like a penguin act really silly And I would just do those things just to give her some power and I kept doing it and doing it And finally I would say maybe my husband Scott is here. Maybe six to eight months later We really started seeing the change. Yeah, he says yeah six to eight months later And now a year and a half later They have the most beautiful relationship, but it took time and I think that's what you're joking about the magic wand at the beginning It's it's not the easy answer, but it does really help, but it does take repetition And what I really think is important about our approach or any parenting approach that you can really trust Is that it falls back to that foundation of the unconditional love for your child? That relationship is the key the relationship is the most important thing So you have that unconditional love you have that relationship But then there's that leadership or that logic too And I think that that's the part that sometimes can get missed in an online parenting space where we Fall so much to the side of like validating the kids feelings and showing up for them that we forget that kids actually also Require us to be leaders and to say no and to have boundaries And so I think a parenting approach that you can really trust whether it's my page or someone else is someone who? Who really offers both perspectives and says yes relationship is the most important thing That's something I would always look out for in a parenting page And also children need us to be the leaders and that doesn't mean punishing or threatening or bribing them It means holding boundaries letting them know what the expectations are Giving them power and and being in that leadership role So I I hope that answers the question Those are the foundations and then the rest are like I have tons of other tips Like just like the kids the boss game that I just shared I have tons of other tips, but they all fall into those two things Say Jess Say Jess that was so helpful Where can people learn More about you Where can people find me they can find us at nurtured first I'm mostly on Instagram. I feel like I'm on my stories all day every day So you can come see what we're up to there the feed. There's tons of posts We also have an awesome website nurtured first calm that has blog Courses tool kits to do with your kids tons of resources for any parent or caregiver