 Big big up so the memory of Walt Disney wanting to preserve a good family outing, but give me a goddamn glass of wine I think the Beauty and the Beast restaurant at Disneyland Disneyland in LA or in Anaheim is a it's like almost like a food court kind of thing So that's why I was like Beauty and the Beast weird It's a why you can you can sit there's like sit down restaurant at Pirates of the Caribbean. Yep And yeah, you mean Disneyland. Yeah, there's that special lot seven or whatever that you know Like only cool people can get into There's your cool people menu and everything the Star Wars thing at Disneyland is gonna serve alcohol Well, it would look blue But you have to you have to get in a laser sword fight in order to order It was funny when I'm when the TV guy was here Yeah, and he was great. They're actually two of them, but there was like a main person He saw my my setup here and he goes. Oh, you're a musician Oh, and I said guess again and he goes Podcaster all right Yeah, it turns out he's a musician. Okay, and plays in a band that Now I can't remember the name of it. I wrote it down But yeah, we because he saw the focus right and he was like, oh, yeah the same thing and so talked a little bit about gear and I Told him all about daily tech news show and he was like so you like review like like cameras I said, well that makes it in sometimes, but now it's more sort of overall tech news and he's like so like Laptops well that here. Let me let me read you. What's on our rundown today? Here are the things that we're talking about on the show today. He was like, oh, okay. Yeah, this is like a tech show Yeah, yeah Yeah, daily tech news show I say as I always say with everybody daily tech news show It's exactly what it sounds like right on the tin. Yeah Tint mackerel, so what's in that? Did your chicken Sardines and olive oil so so what's in here? What are we talking about exactly so are there sorry does it have any fish? Well, you know chicken of the sea very confusing Is how much chicken is in here none? Um, I have to admit that because I'm referencing just because I'm saying she like famously Everybody knows what I'm saying. I Never really thought about it that much one way or another but I didn't think of it as tuna either Oh, I always thought of chicken of the sea just sounded like chicken to me. I didn't like I did not experienced it I felt she was wrongly shamed Or perhaps I should have been shamed as well. I think it comes from an older Generation because that's how they used to market tuna Is chicken of the sea? Yeah, like I probably would have thought it was like Chickens in a farm by the ocean. I don't know Yeah It's cod or not. I think part of it part of that moment was just That was like reality TV to right. Yeah, and the way it was delivered and her whole reputation All right 30 seconds to air miss Sarah Lane. Would you care to read the Introductory I care very much. Yes. Oh, does that mean you'll do it? Yes. Okay good. I Care a lot absolutely not do it Okay Places everyone put on your robes and your wizard hats three Two one Thanks everybody who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more head to daily tech news show comm slash supports This is the daily tech news for Thursday October 25th 2018 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feline 3.0 I'm Sarah Lane and from Oakland, California. I'm Justin Robert Young and the show's producer somewhere in LA The name is Roger. Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting the name That's really important Very important. Hey, let's you're changing it. We're gonna talk. We're gonna talk some art today. Are you ready to talk art? Yes, because we are art experts not our aficionados But we're gonna talk about art and AI and how it all ties together. I learned some things today. Hope you will too Let's start with a few tech things you should know Xiaomi launched the me mix 3 in Beijing at Thursday with a magnetic slider to access the front facing camera instead of a notch It also has a 6.4 inch 1080p OLED screen and 6 to 8 gigs of RAM and 128 gigs to 256 gigs of storage. However, there's also a forbidden city palace museum special edition variant Which comes with 10 gigs of RAM and 256 gigabytes as well The me mix 3 will also come in a 5g version to launch in q1 next year So says the company the me mix 3 goes on sale first in China on November 1st with the forbidden city model coming later next month Anyone else think the forbidden city palace museum sounds like a whiteboard exercise We're three people shouted ideas and they just wrote all of them down Forbidden city might have how it's fine. Sure. Yeah, done right. They just took the Chinese versions of Apple's OS naming Laptop mall together from Chinese history. Yeah Google Maps is now letting users follow their favorite businesses like restaurants bars or stores by tracking a business You'll get news from those places like upcoming events special offers and other updates right in the for you tab of Google Maps Google also says businesses can use the Google Maps platform to start reaching potential customers Before they open to the public Oh, sorry, I was distracted by Derek Silver showing pictures of breakfast sausages in our discord Amazon announced that third-party devices can now work with Alexa for business Which lets users dial into conference calls check business calendars and look up info and tools like sales force Amazon says it's working with Plantronics I home blackberry link play and extra on among others to bring voice assistant capability With a software update to those company's devices things like whiteboards and conference equipment All right, let's talk a little bit more about one person's reaction to Apple CEOs Beware the data industrial complex speech that we talked about yesterday We knew there would be rebuttals in response to Apple CEO Tim Cook who spoke out against data collection at a keynote speech During the International Conference of Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners Conference in Brussels on Wednesday Former Facebook Chief Security Officer Alex Stamos tweeted that Apple needs to come clean about how it blocks ways to provide secure ways to access apps in China Stamos said quote we don't want the media to create an incentive structure that ignores treating Chinese citizens as less deserving of privacy protections Because a CEO is willing to badmouth the business model of their primary competitor who uses advertising to subsidize cheaper devices So this is a former Facebooker Subtweeting But it's championing Google right, I mean not Their primary competitor that subsidizes their product if you read through the whole Just got in trouble for the Chinese thing Hold on that is like one side swipe at Apple He doesn't really seem to be supporting Google here because he says I agree with Tim Cook about the need for privacy regulation I agree with this stuff, but Apple shouldn't be let off the hook. I think he's more attacking Apple than defending Google Oh, and we we mentioned this yesterday when we were talking with Scott about Tim Cook's Fiery words as we called them and that sure it's easy for Apple to say things like this, right? But it's also as as Stamos is pointing out, you know You're you're you are taking potshots at your competitor So this is not just because it's you know for the good of humanity. There's there there are business strategies in place here Of course, I mean but but they've they have long taken the stance that In a world where now the message of if it's free, you're the product Apple has always said no, no, no, that's why we charge so much. We get our money up front And and that's that I think that these are legitimate Uh legitimate questions to be raising about Apple and their relationship with China Uh, but it is interesting. It's interesting to me where these lines Are being drawn and where if you're gonna slam Apple Where are you going to do it and and do you hit them right in the hypocrisy? as mr, uh Stamos Stamos Yeah, and Alex left facebook Maybe not on the friendliest of terms with facebook So that's another reason why I'm like, yeah, it's tempting to want to draw this as a facebook and google team and up Sort of thing, but I don't think that's it. I think it's more stamos I mean what he does is he names and shames the verge Washington Post and the new york times Saying none of you mentioned china and any of your stories and to be fair neither did we yesterday We talked about how it's easy for apple to criticize google's privacy policy But I think all of us sort of fall into the habit of saying well china is an entirely different situation That's not saying it's good bad or indifferent. That's saying that's a separate topic Because you have a whole lot more going on there, but on the other hand I think alex stamos is right at least to call out and say well hold on though, you know apple Being so critical of everyone else and and and kind of setting themselves up as the paragon isn't exactly the paragon That that they would like you to think if you look at china and most tech companies aren't Looking at china as something they need to resist. They're trying to cooperate and build in china I'm not saying that's wrong of them But it is a topic worth looking at and evaluating when it's regarding the right individuals and and privacy, etc The new york times reports that chlorox paid To license information from kinsa Which sells internet connected the romameters that sync with an app to track fevers and symptoms the chlorox The data shows chlorox which zip codes from around the country had increases in fevers In those areas chlorox increased ads for products like it's disinfecting wipes kinsa says that the romameters are in more than 500,000 american household and says its illness data contains no identifying personal information Before being passed on to other companies But critics like the electronic privacy information center says that though kinsa appears to be using information in a privacy compliant manner federal regulation around how this type of consumer data is handled Is needed Yeah From the editor's desk topic tomorrow, uh Yes, we we don't want to be targeted without transparency, but if And I know there's ifs here But if chlorox is aggregating the data and all they're doing is telling an advertiser Hey, if you want to advertise more where we think people are are ill we can tell you what zip codes they are I'm not sure that that's a problem For kinsa rather you're saying Rather than chlorox because chlorox would be the advertiser right right. No, you're right if kinsa's saying that to chlorox. Thank you Yeah, yeah, I I don't know that that's an issue Well, it's There's it's starting to be mission creep on print on on combating Advertising targeting because there was overreach, but I don't think this is overreach So look kinsa sells a You know a product that has an app, right? I'm assuming that in the you love for that app you are Uploading data Now if if the question is should that be more clear to people should it be more upfront that your anonymized data is being sold? Probably, but I don't know if personal data anymore if you say We're getting a high number of people with high temperatures in this zip code and and it's not in any way real It's not even just anonymized. It's like not individualized And maybe they were selling data It is it is still your data and I can understand where people Should have the right to say whether or not they're doing it and I assume they do I'm not saying that kinsa is doing anything wrong. I'm I'm just saying Where is the end of the line though? Where is it no longer personal data? If it's like personal data contributing to a pool that creates a separate data point, that's what I'm talking about When it's your fever that they're generating the data But it's sort of but kinsa kinsa at no point is denying that this is happening. This is actually very transparent kinsa's just saying Don't worry. There's not personal data being sold to a company like chlorox. It's not really To me. I think where people get weird is because we're talking about health care Right and and sure chlorox is not, you know, the same thing is going to the doctor But it's it's it's personal data. That's a little bit different than hey How many people in this zip code went and saw this movie? Yeah, this is no different than uh twitter saying, oh, we see a lot of people saying they're sick online And and in this zip code. It's not infringing on their personal data there It's no different than than logging the number of visits to a doctor's office. No, no again I'm I'm not saying that it's bad And and I we understand when we roll into twitter that we are xing off a box that says that people are allowed to sell Keywords and data and stuff like that and I'm saying that kinsa has the right to do it and you have the right to know Hey, when I'm using this and I'm Sinking it with the app That it is that there's going to be an element of this that they are going to use this Totally anonymized version of this data to then make money I'm fine with all that But I do think that there's an element that we should know that that's that should be clear That that's the deal that we are making even if it's just another thing that we are checking off in a box I think they did make that clear though again again All I'm saying is that if what if we are talking about further regulations, right? That's that's what the electronic privacy information center is saying that there needs to be further regulations That's the only thing that I could think of that you would ask for in terms of further regulating this process. That's all In its triennial publication of exemptions to the digital millennium copyright act carla d. Hayden The current librarian of congress for the united states on the recommendation of caron a temple the acting register of copyrights and director of the us copyright office included an exemption to the digital millennium copyright act for repairs and maintenance Exemption applies to smartphones tractors cars and home appliances and home systems like your you know hVAC your heater your air conditioner That lets a user break drm for and I quote the maintenance of a device or system In order to make it work in accordance with its original specifications Another change expanded the exemption for unlocking a used phone and tablet to apply to new phones and tablets Doesn't have to be used anymore as well as an exemption for jailbreaking a device being expanded to include smart speakers You know the right to jailbreak your smart speaker these rules go into effect in the united states on october 28th Nice It's a good update a win for the right to repair that a lot of people Didn't think was gonna come and i'm i'm surprised with the blazing headlines that right to repair usually gets that This isn't being trumpeted all over the internet today. It's almost like they didn't want to win. They just wanted clicks Hmm that seems like something that'll be in the five dollar friday Uh sources tell tech crunch that facebook is building an app called lasso to let users record and share Videos of themselves lip syncing or dancing to license music. Oh boy Yeah, it's a if it sounds like musically or tiktok, which musically has been rolled into That's because it is one source says quote It's full screen built for teens fun and funny and focused on creation and quote The team developing it is under facebook's principal lead product designer brandy voss App any ranks tiktok as the number five iphone app in the united states Now even though i sort of made a joke like oh, this sounds like something i would use which it probably isn't I will say that and not just teenagers because i don't follow a whole lot of teenagers on instagram if any But a lot of folks who at least you know I've followed on snapchat in the past and have moved on to instagram stories do this exact thing Uh many times it's in the car You know singing along to your favorite song lip syncing and looking cute with a little you know filter on your face type thing This is a real thing a lot of people do this Yeah, uh in fact facebook at one point according to tech crunch looked at buying musically and may have decided at the time It wasn't popular enough, but as tiktok, which is what musically has become Is is rising in popularity Facebook has decided well since somebody in china bought musically. Maybe we build our own Which they will and it will be less successful and then it'll die Uh, this is the the circle of facebook's Cloning of apps sometimes it works, you know sometimes it's it's uh That they are adding a a good feature to a product that obviously is very very popular Well, if you count instagram facebook has some standalone apps that are pretty popular messengers another Um, certainly wasn't the first messaging app out there, but I know what you mean Justin usually facebook just says well, let's just do exactly what the other guy is doing and and it doesn't work out Oh, I mean this this is part of the thing This is what they do is they try to buy if they can't buy it at the price they want They try to build it and either the app uh does not do well, uh as as it as the world moves along And their side product uh does does whatever it will do facebook just have to make its own kind of music Sing its own special song Oh boy more more ellipse syncing and dancing. I like the dancing vids actually Keep them coming. Those are fun But enough about facebook let's talk about twitter twitter reported higher than expected earnings and revenue for the third quarter With earnings per share of 21 cents and revenue of 758 million dollars. That's up 29 percent year over year Advertising revenue in particular reached 650 million dollars also a yearly increase of 29 percent So that's good news. It's the company's fourth straight profitable quarter But monthly active users fell one percent year over year the second quarter in a row that twitter messed monthly active user estimates as well user uh daily active users rose nine percent on the year for the eighth straight quarter of daily active user growth and twitter Chief financial officer ned seagull said a third of the people who see twitter each day have never been on the platform before So, I mean, yeah the fall of the monthly active users, uh twitter has lots of explanations for including gcr And getting rid of bots uh the fact that their daily active users are growing Although they won't tell us how many they have yet. They're just giving percentages Uh, I think means that the the strategy is working. They're they're making money And they're growing the number of people who visit twitter I and for a while twitter has realized it's not so much about participation. It's getting people to come to the platform so coming to A third of the people who visit twitter each day, which I assume does not mean you saw a tweet on uh that was embedded somewhere It means that I think it does Oh, well, then that's I mean, that's a silly thing to say. I mean that you could see a tweet without trying Yeah Well, that's okay. If if that is allowing them to to make some revenue and and you're and they they say look We need to be better at converting them into regular twitter users so that they are more productive users than yeah I think that's uh I think that's fine. I think twitter is actually kind of on track right now. We'll see if it continues Folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines dot com all right, uh Obvious a paris based collective of artists uh has created a You know what actually I got screwed up here and I I told the punchline to the joke before uh, yeah Sorry, uh, I looked at the wrong square Thursday Christie's sold a print on canvas titled portrait of edmund bellamy For four hundred thirty two thousand dollars the expected price was between seven and ten thousand dollars The work was created by a collective called obvious which is made up of three 25 year old french students So far if I hadn't screwed it up you'd be asking why are you talking about this on dts? The students used a generative adversarial network to create the picture It was trained on a data set of historical portraits Until it could create its own now. There is controversy though about obvious selling this on Christie's They used open source code from ai artist robbie barrett Uh Hugo casel dupree the tech lead for obvious says look if you're just talking about the code Yeah, no, there's not a big percentage that has been modified But if you talk about the work on the computer, there's a lot of effort here However, other ai artists say that the works from obvious don't appear much different If you just run barrett's code without any modification at all So they're a little critical of obvious making all this money off it when other ai artists which you may not have realized Have been toiling away Creating works of the same sort In fact german artist mario clingerman told the verge to me This is dilettante's work the equivalent of a five-year-old scribbling that only parents can appreciate But I guess people who have never seen something like this before it might appear novel and different One difference to note though is that obvious isn't taking credit For the art which a lot of times other ai artists do in fact the portrait is signed with part of the generative Adversarial networks algorithm Many ai artists think though that giving the credit to the Algorithm creates a false impression that machine learning systems are more complex and autonomous than they actually are Also worth noting christie's approached obvious about the auction Uh, because they kind of want to make a splash so if he's over there with half shredded banks he works christie's got to do something, right? so Couple of questions here is this art And who do you credit if it is? Congratulations Congratulations ai artists you now have stepped to a level of discourse that only human made artwork could aspire to Naval gazing uh differences in in what is hard and what isn't who deserves credit A controversy so lay words like dilettante being thrown around as a pejorative Welcome ai you are now truly artis Yeah, this isn't this isn't a totally perfect comparison, but What if in the music industry A song of which there are many that sampled lots of different original works of art Was credited to the software program that allowed the the the current artists to make This conglomerate song. I mean Everyone would have a meltdown or at least everybody in the music industry who cares about this sort of thing So if you can if you sort of compare it to something like that I can see why crediting ai or an algorithm with artwork that without Actually crediting the original artists I don't even know how you would do that exactly, you know, it'd be too many signatures on on on a single print, but It is a little wonky And I'm not sure that the the the fellow who Who who was who was critical of obvious's tactic is totally wrong in the sense Yeah And he's got a lot of friends who are on his side if you read the verge article about this There are several other quotes from barrett even being slightly slightly critical. They're they're torn They like the fact that this is brought ai art as an endeavor higher up in the public consciousness But they don't love the way obvious went about it On the other hand, I'm like this is an entirely new form of expression I'm a whole lot calling it art or not, but it isn't Something where you can say there's a tool and there's an artist It merges more. So the tool is the is the gan the generative adversarial network But it has more of an impact on the art than just a brush does like I'm I don't want to boil it down to just this but I will I think that there's a lot. I don't know if these quotes would be quite as spicy if it weren't Damn near half a million dollars Uh on the other end of it. I think that's That's part of this if if Obvious a little red hot chili pepper to the uh, if I if they sold that thing for $300 at the swap shop It would not Feel as as them flipping it for for damn near half a mil and they basically have they have sold This is not the first ai made work to sell. Yes first one to be auctioned by a major auction house Yeah, no if I if I were obvious I'd put my arm around my ai and say don't worry little buddy They hate us because they ain't us Uh I still am fascinated by this question of what is it? Is it art? I don't know if I like it, but it's art like, you know, like That's art I I guess Well, I mean anything is art. It's I don't I don't think we should be Um question whether or not this is art. It it very much is art But so is me, you know drying a line with a pencil So I mean, yeah, look part of the reason why I'm sure this sold for what it sold for was because Everybody get same reason why the person who got their Banksy half shredded is thrilled is because they now get the half shredded Banksy There's a story that goes along with it There's headlines that go along with it this sold for the number that it sold that Because somebody's going to be able to hang this up on their wall and say oh, you know That was the first ai created a thing sold for auction and I bought The other thing in the verge points out like Marcel Duchamp made art called ready made that was essentially Taking advantage of that kind of thing on purpose and they're like why didn't obvious Build this as the first ai ready made as the first Duchamp of ai I think some of them like we would have felt a lot better It's them sort of trying to build build the the ai as the artist that has some of the feathers ruffled as Everyone's just enjoying that Christie's came to obvious first that they were just somebody there's somebody who They're saying Christie's came to the obvious conclusion. Yeah, they did and everyone else is really annoyed about it Well, this is definitely one of those situations that doesn't have an answer and uh, we haven't covered all the potential angles on this So uh, keep the conversation going send us an email Ask to make your comments known on patreon feedback at daily tech news show dot com. There's there's other ways to interact right sarah Oh, that's true. We are all um You screwed me up Everybody who participates in our subreddit look out for art stories and please vote on them And submit your own as long as there's a tech angle at daily tech news show dot reddit.com If you want to hang out on facebook, that's cool too facebook dot com slash group slash daily tech news show Let's check out the mailbag. Okay natron wrote in about our conversation yesterday about is apple going to To to to limit its new tv service to apple device owners. Um as has been rumored, but we don't know for sure Uh, natron says one thing worth keeping in mind about apples tv shows. You might not have to buy the most expensive apple device They're just saying you have to own an apple device wouldn't an apple tv or a 150 iphone 5 Get people the shows Even a used iphone should work plus if it gets people into the ios ecosystem. That's still a plus for apple Yeah I doubt it If you can only also only watch it on that device now it's limited your Your abilities like oh, I can't still can't watch it on my roku So now I have to buy an apple tv and a phone, you know, it depends on where you want to watch things Want to watch things in multiple places? I don't know I suspect That this audience the daily tech news show audience Will react to this in a way that will not be as big of a problem Uh for the wider The wider tech community I'm starting to be of the opinion that there's going to be a four pay version of this Maybe as part of apple music for people who don't have ios devices Sure. Yeah, right and then the conversation becomes. Oh, yeah 10 dollars a month And then I say well, but I have an iphone. Oh, yeah, I lucky you Yeah, then it becomes a like oh, it's Then then natron's point becomes even more relevant Which is like oh well then just buy the iphone and then then you should be able to just use that login everywhere that might help Uh chris christensen the amateur traveler not joining us with a segment today But writing in an email saying I like sarah's idea about the smart fridge We had mechanisms now to limit our kids screen time Maybe we should give them control over limiting our fridge time. I'm sorry your fridge access is locked out after 8 p.m Or maybe allow access to the salad jar, but not the ice cream drawer Oh Yeah, this is in reference to scott johnson saying he wishes his fridge would would limit the things That uh that it lets him eat. Uh, and I said well, what about a smart fridge? Do you know where it's it just doesn't let you buy things that you're not supposed to buy? But yeah, locking out locking your kids out of the fridge an ice cream drawer work every month brutal which drawer's got opened The smart home has gotten very brutal Yeah, uh, what is in brutal is having jesson rubber young with us whenever he can join It was two days this week in fact jesson. What else is going on with you because I know you're a traveling fool All right, so uh, obviously we have a couple really big political things coming up Uh midterms are right around the corner You can keep up with every twist and turn of it with my free political newsletter You can sign up for that at free political newsletter.com Uh, I'm also doing a live show if you are in the bay area San francisco on election night. That is november 6th at 7 p.m I'm doing a live show called wave watch an election night extravaganza We've got some of the craziest campaign ads of of the year. We have a live decision desk I guarantee you it will be a very very very fun Show you can get your tickets to that at bit.ly Slash wave watch and one more thing. I will be at twitch con along with my night attack brother brian brushwood We're doing a talk at 3 p.m In the pj sugar theater about why We left justin tv. We were chased off justin tv when they switched to a video game focus And why we wound up coming back to twitch It is it is kind of in a lot of ways the story of our little nomadic independent existence And our our travails through networks and and going fully independent and why we're now back on that platform I'm very proud of it. I think it's going to be a blast. It is this saturday at twitch con 3 p.m Called the leftovers Wait, that's a hbo show Yeah, well, we're like that Except sometimes it's just stuff in your fridge. Yeah, it's also that yeah Hey, everybody, uh, if you heard us allude to uh, my editor's desk audio column at the five dollar level and you want to get that There's one easy way to do it go to patreon.com slash dtns. I just put up a column today actually About uh political interference and and my opinions on it and what tech should do to properly Combat it, which I don't think they're doing right now. Uh, so you can get that Plus the audio column plus all kinds of other benefits at patreon.com slash dtns Love and your feedback keep it coming our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We are live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc And you can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live It's a roundtable episode tomorrow with nicole lee and ashley esqueda talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frogpants.com Climbing club hopes you have enjoyed this brover Yay Lady roundtable It's been a long time. I apologize Oh, please everybody Everybody hurts sometimes tom. Yeah Everybody hurts just gotta remember to put all the notes down below not Above yeah also, um Yeah, I mean Everybody's everybody's a little sloppy sometimes or discord's getting too interesting Uh, man r.e.m r.m. Always gets the like they are probably the the kings of 90s college radio Is there another band that you would associate more not college radio As a veteran of 90s college radio, I would say r.e.m I mean you too Also, but you too became something that means something different whereas r.e.m still has that r.e.m So so would r.e.m be the Beatles of 90s college radio and you too don't I don't know. I don't know. I mean, there are a lot of college radio bands that kind of went like I think of counting crows as one of those that Yeah, I feel never Whether from the 90s that were college radio bands, but we're saying who are the we're saying r.e.m is a cut above those Like I thought he was just like r.e.m Actually kind of 80s maybe though because I What about like Dave Matthews band? Yeah, and now you're starting to get nine late 90s early I mean, are you just trying to figure out what would be considered an iconic like if you said college radio band It's just it's one of those tags that is unique to me because I can't think of another band That like you can say like, oh, this is a new wave band. This is a Uh a gangster rap act. This is a something like that, right? for whatever reason r.e.m. Just kind of Has like this this as time has moved on I'm sure at at at a certain time you'd be able to rattle off five or six bands that were contemporaries to them But r.e.m. To me is the band that always still get in doctors. That's the other one They're toad the wet sprocket toad the wet sprocket was another one blind melin later, you guys are all I think I think blind melin was not college radio. Oh, it was total college radio. That's like the only people would listen to that band But like but like they had like one album and then the lead singer died Yeah, but that's so which doesn't you know, that's unfortunate everything. I'm just saying r.e.m. Is How many albums do they have like 15? Well, I'm not saying that that r.e.m. Isn't the like Top of the top of the heap. I'm just thinking of bands that you associate when you say college radio Well, but but maybe it's top of the heap number one college band of the 90s King of the hill king of the hill. What about lauren hill or diggable planets? Our christies came to the obvious conclusion. We're forgetting lauren hill one of the most popular college radio acts I think when I think lord, I think of college Like it's well. Yeah, but I would say lauren hill is in the hip hop genre much more than Because you would say all right Sorry, but hold on real quick christies came to the obvious obvious conclusion too long or is it good? I think christies came to the obvious conclusion is is that's that's a good one. That's that's that was very good identified What would you say tom? Is the first big r.e.m album That you can remember don't google I'm typing christies came to the obvious conclusion. Uh, I am not googling. Um I can't remember the name I'm blanking on the names now out of time Was that one of the early ones or later ones? It's the one the first one that I remember being aware of is is the one with End of the world as we know it which whichever help would that be automatic for the people Was that one's later at that stand Stand is losing my religion. That's later. No, I think stand is not on the same album as losing my religion We're gonna have to google this guys. Sorry I'm on it Now face when think about direction wonder why yeah out of time 1991 Thank you, sarah. Thank you for your wisdom Losing my religion was the one after that then right? Yeah, losing my religion would be automatic for the people then monster was the one after that. That's like, uh Automatic for the people is losing my religion But losing my like monster is like bang bang Don't forget murmur from 1983 No, I wouldn't I mean, is this just an REM question or is this a college radio band question Well, I was just trying to think of like, okay, so when REM becomes This like underground and I guess that that's the REM exist in this very weird space where There was still an underground But because of cable and mtv They were just about to turn all these kind of underground acts that wouldn't have fit in top 40 radio At the time and turn them into superstars and REM is kind of The last Band that really had super fame there that kind of like they definitely had big videos And they were more famous than they would have been if they were just You know a college rock hit Uh, but but they're still of that more than like let's say you too, which probably would have been a comparable band Yeah, it was a good time for sure in 1988 Elvis REM and you two were right all alongside each other I mean, are you trying to define? What at what point they stopped becoming a college radio band or I mean, I'm just trying to talk about early 90s rock Yeah, like like many like many times in my life. I'm really just looking to delve into pedantic Because REM is kind of the I mean kind of the poster child, but there were so many acts around at the same time And whether it was like Lollapalooza or the horde tour or something like that there was you know, there's there's literally a constellation of college radio bands And they all had a very similar sound right they all just featured Like a guitar basis and drums and if they wanted to get fancy they would have like a rhythm guitar too Well, I don't know. I mean I don't think anybody would ever confuse an REM song, but that's because of michael stape's Maybe we confuse I'm just saying they all had the college radio sound though. That's It's we're we're basically talking about like the birth of indie rock as It would be defined today and we're calling it college radio Is is is college radio what we are calling popular? Quote unquote kind of underground rock right at the time that wasn't grunge. Are we excluding grunge from? Yes. Yeah, I would I would say yes grunge is its own genre There's a lot of bleed over like perl jams the reams peter murphy web wilder delimitry The front the church xtc. That's wait is xtc really? I always thought xtc was it was more of a Like melissa effigy there even peter himmelman I'm reading most of these from a wpgu playlist That tom just happened to have under his desk candy tom march 5th 1990 I I swear to god The next time there's a live event someone's just gonna Hit you like one of those elves in golden axe and and there's just gonna be some magical little Of a relic of the past it'll fall out of your pocket What about green day does green day count? Green day is punk. Yeah, but it was definitely It became more mainstream, but they were definitely a punk band, but it was definitely I mean college campuses were where it kind of dug its That's it. They're an interesting test case for that because yeah, they kind of straddle They're not grunge, but they kind of have a foot over there and they're punk, but they're also college Well, no, I mean they are they are far more You know in in the lineage of I mean in terms of popular music that people would would know like It's it's more the Ramones and more the sex pistols than the kind of like More melodic pixies sort of influence that that weaved its way through grunge Yeah, no, it's it's fair, but but they are I don't know that we I Think of them in that vein because we were playing green day on the University of Texas at Austin College Station When I was in grad school Now I will say They were always a band that didn't want to be fenced in by the punk thing And they always kind of yearned to be their own Sort of sound so green day is an interesting one But I guess that's the thing is that there was that that became that moment in the 90s when When mtv became an institution and not like the revolution that it kind of was in the 80s where it was like shocking that this thing existed and just became like Oh, no, wait, we understand we can Change wherever pop culture goes and yet these labels that were Making acts that were ready made for mtv Like that's where I think grunge is an interesting subgenre because it went from zero to 60 Really fast. It was like Seeing that all of a sudden the top eight bands in it Every every every scene has eight bands that you would like listen. Whatever order is the top eight All eight became famous overnight, right? Well, I'm on mtv almost immediately. I was still program director in 91. I think uh When a guy from toronto was visiting and he was like, have you heard of nirvana? I'm like, no, that is He's like, it's this band out of seattle and they are worth checking out Uh, they're really interesting. They're really great. And so I checked him out and I was like, oh, this is amazing So I got in touch with the record company and I was like, hey, we're gonna add these guys to the playlist and I'm like, oh That's great. We're totally getting a wave and like I don't really know but in my in my memory within a month nirvana was like a worldwide sensation I'm not trying to make it sound like I helped that along I meant I was part of that wave like I was right there when suddenly everyone immediately went Wait nirvana exists and boom. They were everywhere Well, and I mean I can vividly remember the music video It's a great song smells like teen spirit But the video was like part of the huge hitness of that song being What it became oh, yeah, I mean, you know remember mtv's buzz been That was like it was like the like alt grunge whatever And and yeah, in fact, I think we've talked about this on on gdi in the past but but that was Losing my religion same thing iconic music video still remember, you know the angels and the whole thing I remember going from not knowing who nirvana was when that guy mentioned him to me to like Within a month every there was pearl jam and every everything was everywhere, you know Yeah, in fact, I might have heard like I think I found out about nirvana from mtv I can't imagine where else I would have Because I remember how old I was and I wasn't listening to college radio I was listening to like top 40 pop stuff My big source of new music was live 105 in san francisco before when they still had the majority staff of djs Uh human djs and one of them steve masters Oh, yeah, he's a legend He's a legend, but he got he when he started on live one of five He started creating these late night radio shows that he brought in a lot of imported music from britain and australia and in europe And so he kind of built this following and he started incorporating a lot of other bands that weren't popular at the time Kind of kind of sucks that they went they went a little more corporate in the later years, but Now he's he's a legend and he helped at least on the bear he could cope Support a lot of artists who wouldn't have gotten radio play otherwise just um This is kind of crazy Never mind because I just met you Yeah, never mind was only expected to sell a quarter million records, which was at the time on par with sonic youth's album goo Uh, but that's released in 91 Uh And and cobane is dead by 94 Like that that's how quick that that nirvana like we think Of of nirvana and these like gigantic terms, but that was like a comet across the sky they were like Super famous then super troubled then gone Because like when is sonic youth and green day both went through a similar thing too where um They went from being very hardcore to very radio friendly Yeah, of course, you know, what about the pixies? That's college radio, right? Oh, certainly Pixies might be the band that is that is transcended pixies might be the band that uh has Lived forever the longest unconsecutive title reign of college radio. Yeah Well, because they they they succeeded r.e.m. In a in a way um Not directly musically or anything like that, but like they the r.e.m. Was sort of after losing my religion just kind of Hit a hit a bit of a slide um And and the pixies were super strong right then Well, I think also the the pixies were so influential to grunge But grunge really burned hot and burned out fairly fast like as a genre it really only has like five years maybe six years on top and then we start to get a different that's when like Rap rock starts to happen and corn and like a lot of You know a lot of these other bands sort of take over But the pixies which were so influx was so influential to grunge wound up sounding more like What came after the sort of like big but rock explosion in like the early rock rock Uh, and that was one of the worst terms ever but rock. Yeah, I know what it is I know what you're talking about but boy do I hate that term it is it's it but it's so You can hear those crunchy cars. Yeah, you know it And then somebody else wraps like that's Somebody would have heard on a muppet show what you did just then. Yeah animal Just say about uh death metal everyone sounds like cooking monster What are they saying? Yeah, well we used to call to grunge We used to call it har har music because everybody sounded like they were saying har har It's all your vowels. They all blend But it's like it was it was funny the oh go ahead Justin I'm sorry just just real quick If you if you were to go on a large enough timeline and you say like oh, here's the pixies and here's arcade fire You would think that they were more than they were closer together in terms of When they kind of came out because a lot of their sounds sort of Like flows into each other more than the actual circuitous route that we took musically to get there But that's funny though because I think of pixies as uh that band I listened to in austin in the 90s And I think of arcade fire as something younger kids listen to Oh love arcade fire Yeah of them Holy crap, but yeah, that was certainly not Wait way after the 90s The tv mount or the guy who was a musician said well, what do you what do you do? I say he said I play bass in a rock band Which is funny because it's like these days when someone says that I'm like, well, what kind of rock indie rock punk rock you know You know hair bands like what kind of rock and he was like, hmm I don't really know how to answer that and that was sort of like Cannot be the first person to ask you that question You guys You guys should kind of know like your rock genre So if like I go to one of your shows in l.a. I would kind of have an idea And so then it turned into well, we're very we're kind of hard But our lead singer is really into michael jackson So there's some jazz influences And he kind of he sort of trailed off. I mean he was working on my tv So whatever, you know, I was just being nosy, but it was kind of funny where it's like Rock music doesn't mean anything anymore. I mean it basically means we're still playing instruments with our bodies You're not doing classical. You're not doing jazz and you're not doing country or hip hop or or electronic really Although certainly there's crossover with that too. It's it's like it really it it It requires some follow-up questions And I still don't know what kind of music it is like jazz because jazz can mean all kinds of things Right. I'm of course. Yeah, I don't I don't know enough about jazz to even really know my jazz genres Actually jazz and bebop, you know, it's like if you somebody says they play jazz that can mean a lot of different things Right. I know my dad used to like what he called cool jazz and I did not That's all I know But that was like a radio station and who knows what kind of music they were playing And classical too classical encompasses all kinds of styles. So rock has just elevated to the level of Of those more heritage Forms I think I would I would say so Uh, I just found out that gallium did not get accepted into audible Because I uh, I recorded the open and closes which are the um Uh I recorded the open and closes uh, and I had uh, jim metzendorf do all the rest of the files jim did all of his files properly. I accidentally, uh Recorded mine in stereo. Whereas all of his files are mono and they require all the files to be the same Oh, so it's not like they were like, no, we don't like your book It's just that you have to do it. You have to do your intro Easy fix, but it was a dumb move on my part. Uh, however It just means it'll be delayed a tiny bit. That's all But it will come. Uh, hey, uh, we we uh need to say goodbye to the video people. Thanks for watching. Um, we love you Thanks for hanging around audio people stick around. There's more to come Goodbye video folks