 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's going on Tom? Hello friends Also joining us this week. We are very excited to have him back on the show and talk about terrain with us Mr. Anthony Pocastro. How you doing buddy? Fantastic, I think this is the first time I didn't have to blackmail myself onto the show, too. So that's a plus You never do you're always Welcome So we're gonna get into the normal stuff tonight. We're gonna do we're as I said, we're gonna talk terrain it's gonna be a nice conversation about the nature of terrain in AOS and We're gonna talk a little bit about the rules and we're gonna talk about the Nash con tables Which Anthony has provided and all sorts of stuff around that and how we see terrain I'm probably mentioned faction train stuff like that But I did just want to take a quick moment at the top of the show if everybody will indulge me for a moment And just I want to say a few words I know we have people who watch from all over the world But this has been a rough week for many especially here in the US and I just wanted to kind of start out by saying that I hope everyone who's watching is safe and healthy Doing this show is an honor and a privilege when I look forward to each and every single week and This show is a place of escapism where we get to leave behind the cares the real world for a few moments and have a Deep and often heated discussion about silly toy soldiers and I couldn't be happier to do it In a week like this, however Silence is largely unacceptable and I promise we'll quickly get back to age of Sigmar But I just want to take a quick moment to speak about the situation in the US So last week We saw an innocent man brutally murdered on video by people who are charged with protecting and serving and This would be disturbing in any time But it was made all the worse by the fact that it was far far from the first and We'll likely not be the last and For the past week here in the States and across the world Thousands upon thousands of people both in my city and around the country have been marching Speaking up and mobilizing against this injustice and the system that allowed it to happen The news has showed all of this ad nauseam Our social media is full of it and it's overwhelming and we see all the extreme good and all the extreme bad And I know it's overwhelming. It certainly has been for me but the core truth is that thousands of people are speaking up and Exercising their right to push for what we can all hope for is very needed change For all of us the best we can do is be involved if you can't be involved donate if you can't donate then speak up but above all and Especially if you were in a group that hasn't suffered in this way, listen There's no more important thing you can do than listen The simple truths in life Are really those things that we all know It's what mr. Rogers and Sesame Street and Reading Rainbow and Captain America and Superman all taught you Be empathetic be humble be brave be forgiving be truthful and most importantly be kind So I hope that that is a short message. It's all I had to say about this Thank you all for listening and indulging And I hope everybody out there is is safe and And healthy So that's all I want to say about that and now we can return to our regularly scheduled fun and escapism So there you go As I mess with my camera and take my notes off Sorry everybody All right, Tom, let's do the news It's a Real hard transition To turn to a rumor engine about fascist robot Sure, but here we are Next issue there we go. We have fascist robots for our rumored Yeah, I got it up on the screen. I it's a it's a big everybody's been saying it's a foot. I Don't think it's a foot It's a terrain piece. That's what I'm saying Yeah, you don't think it's a lander. You don't think it's a lander now I really I mean I could kind of see it You're saying like an actual not a leg more of like a fold-down landing piece. Yeah Now it's not a water base now. It's not on a base. Yeah No, the landing pad would have a wider base food's gonna support weight like outriggers. It would have a wider base I Tend to feel the same. Do you know what really pushes me about thinking it's a terrain piece? It doesn't it's it's painted Not with metallic paint Right Right because you can see the smoothness of the pigment and like whenever they edge highlight with metallic It always looks really garbo because they use GW metallics to do it, right? Sure and So like it's clearly not actually metallic paint even though it looks like what would be there would be metallic Right. It also all say feels like anti-anthony's point. It feels like they Photoshop something out that was beneath it Right. Well, that's what I don't know. Like did they remove a base that it's sitting on? or or It like if it they didn't remove a base that strikes me that this is terrain They might mean by that like the train in the vein of like the The sector mechanic has stuff because like the way that that rim Even though there's not that mechanical joint the way that that the foot there. Yeah, sit is Like how the feet of the sector mechanic is trained sit. Yeah, that that wider lip Yeah It's okay. I just realized what this is. All right. I'm ready. It's Sigmar's model for the new store post Oh, there it is. Sigmar himself problem solved. We're good to go. There you go. Solved it done No, yeah, I do feel it it does feel like some kind of either piece of terrain or Something that could be like a small part of a larger landing gear thing That would be painted in the colors of one of like the space marine chapters Yeah, right So that it's not in metallic paint because then you would if it's if it's meant to be in one of those color schemes That would explain You know why it's not metal paint, right? Yeah So There you go. All right cool More not AOS stuff correct. This has mainly been a week of 40k But I pointed out and the reason I put this in there They revealed like some of the rules changes today in an article that Mike wrote Mike Brandt and the Thing that was interesting to me about it There was a lot so like they kind of broke down a new scenario And it made me wonder about whether or not this could be some of the same tech We see in ghb 2020 that so that's what interested me about it so To explain the things that they that they had in there, okay Yep You scored the primary first of all there's a cap on how many points you can score from some of the objectives Interesting, okay So like between the primary and the secondaries there are caps to what you can actually Spend that makes sense Or sorry not spend. I'm sorry a crew. It's a team a team. Yes, exactly. Thank you. That's the perfect word They also You score the primary at the end of your command phase, which is their their hero phase Right, huh, huh interesting, which was a really interesting thing because that means you had to you know move their Last turn and obviously they have a complete you go either. They don't roll for priority like we do right So like in all cases you are going to have to move there survive the enemy onslaught and then you can score it Hmm, right. Yeah, unless you have movement in the hero phase Sure sure sure although Like while that is less obviously in 40k like I'm thinking from an AOS standpoint sure that's like that's That suddenly changes the math. It would make that so much different, right? Yes. Yes. I wonder if that's why Sorry I wonder if that's why they switch some of the wording for like Seraphans teleports now happens at the end of the movement phase instead of in the hero phase like it used to be Right. Maybe you're gonna see a shift of things like that. Well, it just makes me think about things like What are they called? I Corn they're there or spending their blood type Or the mighty destroyers moving in here. Yeah Like all that something becomes way better. Yeah, sure The other thing I was interested to see was they the other thing that was super relevant was Clearly as as mentioned when we talked about the redesign of scenarios a few weeks back and people said like well What about ITC or the sort of those types of? Secondaries and and admittedly the way that the 40k secondaries isn't really what I was describing. Okay There are some parallels But what I was describing was very different in the nature of how controllable it is by the player but it doesn't matter the point is is that the secondaries they showed a whole bunch of the the secondaries and Many of them require you to be in a place and have the unit do a thing And when I say do a thing, I mean not fight or shoot Interesting, right? So like I don't remember what it was called specifically like siphon data or something is what it was called in the in the one that they sampled the four pillars and Like the unit had to abandon certain activities. It would otherwise do to quote-unquote siphon the data Right interesting and so I thought that was a very sort of fascinating Another lever. I'm really interested and happy to see them playing with all these levers and 40k I think this is really interesting I obviously I need to see all of it before I'd even come close to forming an opinion about whether I think it's good or bad Right, I can definitely say at this point. I think it's interesting because it's cool that they're You know sort of pulling those those Different tools and exploring that different game design space So like in a OS again, this would be another thing you could easily imagine happening, right? Like if the unit's unengaged it can't shoot or charge this turn But it can perform as sleepy just said in the comments It can perform a ritual or do a thing right or mine for gold or whatever, you know what I mean like whatever So Could this yeah could be some interesting harbingers of what we see who knows I don't know I I'd love if they mixed it in with the lore and So like be like you Hard you you harvest a third old Sure, you know like it's like as weird and as generic as the scenarios are right now I would love if they if they played like it doesn't add anything to add flavor text and stuff like that, right? No, absolutely, and that was the other thing I mentioned So there's a group of generic for universal secondaries and how you choose them and how you have to balance the choice of them This scenario itself has a secondary built-in you can choose to use which in the case the four pillars It was like the siphoning data thing or whatever and they mentioned that in the future there will be faction specific Secondaries so like you and to just tie it back to what you just said you could imagine that like the KO show up with a you know Harvest a third old thing, right? or whatever You know I I'm I'm interested. That's all say I've nothing. I don't know what else intelligent to say about it besides I think it sounds cool It'd be cool to see a shift in secondaries from the wind moors that are in GHB now to more of Hey, GW can just you know offer to buy the Nash con slash community bill Secondaries and put that in they seem to be fantastic That'll never happen. Well, they don't need to buy them. They already because you're attached Tom. Yeah, piss them off every 30 seconds I know they actually copy of it. So it's fine They can use it anytime they want as I have directly told them so I Have released in written form the copyright or any claim to such such IP Which would be questionable for me to have anyways, so there you go Okay So anyway Yeah, I don't was I don't know was there anything else? It's been a really like I mean obviously the world is all new 40k right now So, yeah, right like everything is new 40k, which is funny because I canceled my pre-order this week There you go, you were excited and then you were like nah change my mind Yeah, I mean I was excited and like it's interesting, but I like I have a lot of models And the winds the winds have changed like shifted in our household With my son Deciding that we're gonna play magic now sure and so finances, you know Just back up the dump truck and just start loading the cash in yeah You've got a you got a shovel money into a different fire pit for your kids, right? So no 40k But I Like I'm excited that it's coming and I'm excited that other people are excited Yeah, I mean I'm gonna pick up at some point I will pick up a couple of the like one or two a couple of One or both of the big necron e-cron characters to paint them just to paint them because I think they're like the big Satan looking dude or whatever. I think looks amazing as does the silent king So like I'll probably get those at some point just to just to paint them because it'd be fun to do for a competition or something, you know so Gotta paint 40k stuff sometime. That's how competitions work. All right Cool. So with no news. Let's just let's with no other news. Let's move to some pick of the week Anthony what would you like to share with everybody? So it ties into the what I'm working on that you can show later, but I got kind of a two-fold thing So the first part being my buddy I've had kind of like hobby block recently with the exception of printing stuff just without having real tournaments on the horizon I've had a hard time getting motivated to work on stuff and my Adept the con team partner for the last couple years Stewart Gailey who is at Giants among minis on Twitter Has been sharing in our group chat just some chaos force that he's been working on that has kind of a Norsega theme and he converts like everything and under his own admission Stewart will tell you he is not the best painter But he has been progressing and progressing and progressing, but his conversions Start in his head as he builds a narrative for his army And then he just sets out with whatever models he could find to fill that void and build them and his conversions So just blown me away over the last month and the stuff he's been working on It's just it's ignited me to do stuff and I need to get my button here with Here to start working on stuff, but it just it's been a real inspiration to me And he's just a super cool dude and that ties into my other part is he's also one of my Nashville guys and currently Con is still on so yeah, that could be the first u.s tournament post Covid and Obviously the people of Nashville You know to os david and then the event organizers are monitoring the situation on a day-to-day basis with the hotels and everything else and if they need to Cut it, you know, they'll have to do that, but currently we're hoping everything can go on and everybody can see the They're friends again in the wonderful terrain and tables and have a grand old-time plan. So I'm looking forward to that I mean if assuming it moves forward you can bet your bottom dollar. I will be there. I am waiting It was supposed to come today But I ordered something Truly fantastic for my display board for this year and I am beyond excited about a display board Is this for the whirlwinds edge? Yes, are you are you gonna take them to that? Yeah, I'll take them. Yeah, it's my army pronounce gone This is gonna be epic because I know what you were asking of me to try to print for you that I could not do So if it's anything along those lines, I'm going to be elated to see what comes Are you paying to judging? Yeah Okay, so you're not in the running. Okay good, correct. Yes He can win fan favorite though Right Yeah, that's I'm out for that. Hmm. Yeah It's gonna be real. It's gonna go a bit this year Well, just don't play like you would normally play and you could you know be in for that Yeah All right So, uh, yeah, I mean the fact that I'm excited about a display board to tell you something But there you go. All right, Tommy. What's your pick of the week? I Am gonna spruke Friend of the show doom and darkness the other night like a bunch of us just like Or like hey you want to do hangout and so it was like this super casual Like a hangout that got put together And it was like me and Jack from re-roll ones and Maroc and doom and Andrew And it was just a really low-key and we just kind of woven out of like the normal pain of so topics and real life and current events and and so it was just a It was a very low-key kind of pain of thought that was They just felt really like Vulnerables probably not the right word, but it just very like Authentic cathartic. I think was probably the answer for all of you. Yeah So it's really good and so I want to I want to spruke that because I felt like it was a good show Yeah, it's on doom and darkness's channel. I'll link it up there. It was good All right for myself, I'm gonna give a shout out to our good buddy. Hey woe twitch who Who put up his newest episode which was all about dem gets Getting getting on to gets and he has a nice little breakdown of those I am loving the way. Hey woe is doing his new army breakdown videos where you know because he had his old sort of Here's everything in a os all-in-one video and now he's broken it out into the separate videos And I think it's just the way he tackles it is Fantastic is a plus work. It is absolutely the reference I would direct anybody to who was just getting into the game and was interested in an army and wanted to learn About it. I think though the information he provides is so succinct and well presented and funny It's it's just an incredibly well done video. So there you go. I will link that down below so Thumbs up. All right Okay, let's talk about some hobby time Anthony is this where I is this where I show your you can you can show this video I put together real quick this afternoon of so my buddy Stu who is working on this chaos force Got me inspired it was a I had recently got a line of 3d printable files That were a viking theme kickstarter. I back and when he was telling the narrative of his army I thought my head. I'm gonna look those files look like so hadn't looked at them I was like Maybe something in there that would look kind of cool and I started printing the palisades for them and the gate and it started Really looking cool as something that could work and then two small one small one medium-sized building And it came out nice and he's gonna Use it as the basis for his display board for this army when it's finished up and I just finished up some of it So just a quick Video. Yeah, I can't show the video because I just now realized my player doesn't have a codec for the format you sent it to him Okay, so if anybody if everybody takes a nausea pill for just a second I still have it set up on my my hobby desk here and you Get a kind of view of the palisades the towers The working Oh, as I knock down the working doors with fields that seems very easy That's what happens when you touch the door. Well, that place is gonna be really easy to assault It's not glued together obviously because I have to ship this all over the Nashville for him But you've got some some cuts there and just That's a really cool Really cool a scene that I really like Then he really is enjoying the pictures I sent to him in the little video. So Yeah, when it when it's all done, it's a little bit bigger than two foot wide it came in At about 32 inches wide, but in its current setup It's only 15 inches deep. So we can still add another You know five inch wall sectioner and the walls if you wanted to induce like a mountain behind it or something So he's got some options. So it'll just be a hair over Your 24 inches wide, but we can keep it 24 inches deep and he'll still have plenty of room to fit his army in there So it should be pretty cool. There's walkways up on the top of the palace aid so he can Put some troops up there like they're looking over You know make the gates open and some cavalry coming out and All all types of good stuff like that. So I was really excited for it and so is he so no, that's awesome It looks like you know, like a bit of that like you mentioned the norsk village or whatever It also reminds me of like a pretty super version of the Like the the Rohan Terrain and stuff like that like yeah, but it's but I like all the other details that are on that A lot of the Rohan tranches like some wooden-ish palates and stuff like that So that's super awesome man. That looks great Yeah, I uh, I'm really happy with it and He's uh, he is too. So it should be cool. And I just love cranking terrain anyway. So no, it's great Tom what about yourself man? What are you working on? Um You know, I've been doing chaos like so uh from a hobby standpoint. I've been doing my kao and uh like um I got a bunch of it based um and primed and Uh initial coats and a lot of the blue is done and so like I like I'm feeling really good about it um I I think I'm going to take my kao to nashkon um, I want to um Like I obviously I've given uh kao a pretty like quite a bit of flak um in the in their current incarnation um, and so I like Wanted to kind of put my money where my mouth was And uh and take it to an event and show that you know, I like I don't think that it can perform Like I don't think it can stand up to the other stuff, but I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a good college try sure. Um And uh Yeah, so I've been working on kao And then digging through a lot of my hobby stuff because obviously I'd mentioned the magic shift for my kids um, and I have uh I only have one deck left for my first bout of magic 20 plus years ago And I know it's somewhere around here and it's worth about 1700 dollars. So I'm trying to find that because I know it's here um So that's what I've been doing this week It's digging through like all my old collectible stuff trying to find uh a small box of cards That's very funny And you're gonna come down and see me tomorrow and try to rifle through my cards and steal more of my stuff I'm on here. No no no no no After you gave me shit. Okay. You know what by the way, I'm just gonna do this. I'm gonna do this right here In front of all of our guests You're fine. Tom. I'm just messing with you Vince. I apologize to you For taking your your precious gift The portion of your of your first collection that you gave me That you told me I could do with what I wanted to sure and sold it a couple years later That was a mistake. I shouldn't have done that It probably would be worth around 50 to 60 grand now sure and that was a mistake and I I publicly apologize You're forgiven tom. You were always forgiven, but now I can't make fun of you anymore or i'm the bad guy Darn it you've stolen my power as a bully No No, yeah, no problem Uh, in all seriousness if you want to look through my like especially that the I mean No, no after after you hit me with that shit. I was like, no, that's it I'm gonna go buy that uh 2014 commander deck that has all the commons And and uncommon I that I was gonna raid you for just so I don't have to put up with it The real issue you'd have raiding my collection is it stops as of like Probably six years ago or something like I haven't I haven't bought a set in probably six years Which is fine. Like that's anyways, what sure I don't remember the last set I actually have Wait, can we can we just talk about this little head? I just saw pop up behind tom in the back corner Like Tom, do you have a dog over there a little puppy? Uh, yeah, I mean I don't want to talk about her I don't I don't like her. I just saw this What now come on dogs are the best thing ever I mean she was the stray that we picked up and I love Because I have to um Like literally found her in the woods. No, it's so funny because like she's a young she's about a year and a half two years and she's like She's a mix of like Terrier and boxer and a bunch of other and like she just wants to love me Oh Like that's all she wants is just to crawl in my lap and I'm just I can't deal with you And you explain to her how you're a cat person because you're just evil and want to turn I'm not I got good joled into into adopting her Um good out of the woods by my kids because kids do that. So good It's not kids that do that. Let's be honest. You want to see a grown man go? Just put a dog around that's what happens. I don't care if you're you know 20 50 6 5 5 4 100 pounds 300 pounds Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's absolutely true. It's absolutely true Uh, I would I mean like Yeah, I love my dogs. Everybody knows that no no shame in that there you go. All right, uh All right, so uh for myself and my hobby time Uh I've been working on this big guy Here we go this big monster. I'm in the middle of working on some metals. So there's not much on him. That's actually metal yet, but this is the um Dracon or whatever from um From creature caster. He's a big boy. He normally has a big weapon that goes in his hands Like that Like this little thing here, but it's not in there right now because it has to be so I could paint him Yeah, there you go He's real big And I've got to do some metals. We've got to do some tattoos stuff like that. So Uh, I don't know why I suddenly decided to do the metals when I know I'm gonna have to do the tattoos and then varnish again That was pretty stupid of me But I wasn't Is that creature caster? Yeah it is um And he like just fits on the proper shag of base Yeah, well the proper shag of base is a 92 mil. I know So he's gonna be he's gonna scrunch. You're gonna be scrunching, buddy Like quite a few people have put him on and he like Just like his legs just fit on there, but there is no room for anything else and he is well engulfing it But yeah, it's an awesome model Yeah, I'm putting him. I'm putting him on that base. I've got I've got that's what the base I just picked up wasn't perfect over there. So yep I need to do his tats and then I'll varnish him again I probably won't pick up with the metals I was just like I had a few minutes before the show and I wasn't thinking And I was like, oh, I'll put some metal on real quick and after I did it. I was like, what am I doing? It's I'm so I'm just gonna I'll have to just reapply it. No big deal. It's fine Uh, okay, or I could just I can always just putty over it and then then varnish. No big deal Uh, okay, so gentlemen Let's talk about terrain shall we? Sure. I love terrain. It's like Getting to the actual topic 30 minutes into the show You know, there's no news for aos. All right. Oh my god, yeah I know right Okay So I want to start with a funny joke All right, is there would everybody like to start with a funny joke? Depends on if the joke is honey. I'm just gonna buy one printer. No, that's well, that is true Hey, hey, I I'm a year plus only one printer Yeah, but you quit on everything like 30 seconds in and move on to something else. So you don't count I'm still Is your printer running right now tom? No, but I actually have filament unlike anthony Uh, you would be wrong to sound like me. I have two 10 pound rolls that just came in plus 14 other rolls that just came in from ziltec Uh, so yeah, I I restocked and restocked heavy Nice My point is tom if your printer is not running right now, then what do you I can see I could literally see anthony's printer working in the background Like it it's literally right here Like it's literally right here and you're just like holding models. What is holding models? Yeah Because I don't have a lot of table space and so this is what I used to work right now And it's really loud when I when I do shows if I have three printers on a 54 by 24 inch space right there It's just fine And I do apologize if anybody can hear them running in the background, but I'm sorry No, it's fine. Not really I've also tried to minimize their fan noise by changing out fans on them, but gotcha No, here's the funny joke. We're gonna start with you ready Uh, the terrain rules in ghv 2019 Is everybody you remember these things you remember when the world exploded when when that happened like Oh my god the anger and rage that was the nerd community when these rules came out. Yep I I reread these today as well as the um The uh, uh, FAQ right to it And all I could think was How did this ever Got a print go to print. How is this a thing was my only my only thought like looking back on it now With you know the benefit of almost a year of hindsight this this section Of how to set up the battlefield and how faction terrain interacts with it And like the primary and secondary list and all this stuff and and how lacking it was Of the actual terrain that's here This is one of the most mystifying decisions in the history of age of sigmar like This got into the book Well, and the best part about it is like they knew when they printed that what was coming They knew huge ziggurats And right but they were gonna print the bow and tie the nexus Like that that was coming five months later. That right. They knew that arm that obviously that army was there because they ended up revealing the uh, all that stuff at Uh, nova like a month and a half later Right, right. No, we aren't got uh Shown at adepticom. No obi art. No noble. Oh, no, you're right. It was no. Yeah Yeah, because remember we saw the big trailer and then we got to walk out and they actually had the models there in the case and it was like They were we might have already been in teaser videos or they were about to start for obi art And they knew they were going to put on this ridiculous bone tie the nexus, right? It's How about you had regular silver enough wild woods and you had Skaven novels available and you went now you you just don't need to play with those and our new rules for you people Right. It's sure that the it I I start with a funny joke to say it's just it was a comical episode In the history of the terrain of this game Yeah, right, uh like what a Ridiculous series of events that was And the funny part about it really to me Was that at the same time they had this Like silly silly silly terrain placement rules, which really the appropriate way to Uh To go is more what they're seizing onto or what what people have seized onto With lots of different 40k things where I think that code has been cracked So especially in 40k where terrain and life side blocking is really important They have the concept of like light medium and heavy terrain tables and they kind of have to be mixed up and You know like blah blah blah the tournament you have x number like your x percentage of light x percentage of medium and x percentage of heavy and The fact that it's varied and you know that there will be some tables where terrain is really dense And somewhere it will be really light forces you to like not build a skew build that's going to rely on one or the other Right, right, and I actually think that's a really interesting idea So it all just tells me that what I hope to see in ghp 2020 And I think this is the right way to go it's just to pick up an idea like that, right Like just literally make a light medium and heavy terrain board and say This is kind of the number of pieces you should use In lights in medium and in heavy Right and like this is what those tables would look like and blah blah blah there you go Well, they kind of did that when they said you have to put down 10 pieces of terrain five a piece and you have to pick three from the You know the bigger pieces and two from the the little shits, but I still at ten I thought was a little bit Uh on some tables that can be really uh really a lot of terrain especially when faction train comes in I mean the six to eight usually seems to be about the right number of varying size It also depends obviously largely and this is the whole trick to it, right it depends so much On uh on what the size of the terrain pieces are right Like I have a lot of smaller terrain so sometimes we'll have You know 12 or 13 pieces of terrain on my six by four table, but none of them are like bigger than this Right, so like and I'm holding up something like the size of maybe like two CDs together Right, yeah, and so uh You know when I would like you can have more of that but if you've got like the um Anything I print sure like this stuff you print or like what was the big what was the big tower slash What's that skull vein manner? Yes, thank you You know if you've got like skull vein manner you have to accept it like that's a giant piece of terrain And you're not going to just say 10 anymore, right Yeah, well actually it's not the footprint of skull vein is pretty small is like this Yeah Because of the way that it branches like it's it's not a lot now I'm in the process of combining it with two other terrain pieces How about the altar of skulls? Is that sufficiently big enough for you? That's Yeah, so that was but they don't even they don't make that one anymore Right, so gw went away from and this is one of the things that like Up and down they went away from like uh playable terrain, which I'm okay with not having every piece flat and playable like the new um suit mausoleums that they make or whatever they call a sigmarite whatever And they started doing bigger taller like line of sight blocking trains, which I I prefer for all of them but with those and You know spoiler if no one knows all the stuff I print I sent to Nashville and david too over there does most of the basing and painting on all that stuff He puts everything pretty much on a base So even a tall piece has a at least a little bit of a playable area So that troops can gain cover. It's not just line of sight blocking. It actually has a function on the table also They always have a footprint which I do this. I always all my terrain is based on something not really a base I mean, it's put on right something. So there's always a footprint So you can say so we can say this is the terrain Am I on it or am I not is a simple question. Are you on the footprint or not, right? Right, and I think that's a key thing that in my opinion all terrain should have At least, you know, like a one inch lip around it where Bases can be put on it and it's a then becomes to me a playable piece of terrain No matter whether it's a big rock outcropping or whatever. It has a actual playable piece. Right. Yep. Yep. Yeah I I tend to agree with that. So I mean, I think the the reason I like the kind of light medium heavy concept is because in my mind the easy way to go with The new addition is to like, okay. You tried to make very exacting rules In addition, I'm sorry new ghp You tried to make very exacting rules and those were just like clearly you're that's not going to work because you keep making Insane faction terrain that's just going to break everything And you don't want to limit yourself off from whatever you're going to make in the future Like I hope we see a lot more aos terrain in the future um and so Instead just give like general Estimates based on the size of the terrain pieces like you know what you printed and you know, it's rough size Right. Just say like if you're if the pieces you're using are abruptly this size example example example x feet by a foot by a foot or You know inches by inches or whatever square inches x square inches x square inches sure like whatever, you know Can do something then use this right use this kind of setup If you if you want a light board if you want a medium board if you want a heavy board Right and then let people play at the terrain level that they're comfortable with Right because ultimately like the amount of terrain I like Might not be the amount of terrain that you know, somebody else likes if they want to roll the table But then at least there's people but then at least with that you have the framework to have a discussion because We have language to talk about it If we have that framework if we don't it's just like I don't know this looks this looks okay, right? And plus that'll give new players more of a concept of the types of tables and most importantly It'll give new players the idea That I think is really important that there isn't some golden mean Of the exact right amount of terrain sitting on the board Right, right. There are ranges. There are ranges. Yeah And there also needs to be language in there Like you were saying they know what what they're printing on fax and terrain so that there's not Where you roll up to the table and you're like, haha, you're playing so that there's no place for you to put a wood screw you Like that's not that's not cool for anybody. Like I wouldn't want want to see that Well, I'm pretty cool with it for silver. Yeah, but for everybody else, it's bad Right, right. I know I use them as an example because they were always the No, I was uh, oh my god, they have 400 pieces that to put out But even like the Boneside Nexus, that's a big piece of terrain Like, oh, no, there's no where you can comfortably put that because the table's already set. Sorry, you're you're with that No, take a little nudge replace one piece of large or something Whatever the the rule it wants to be from tf. They needed to be able to use that thing Like they paid money for it. They spent time painting it Let them use it right or as opposed to this rule Uh I'm gonna read now verbatim In a pitch battle faction train must be set up more than six inches from the edge of the battlefield More than six inches from any other terrain features and more than three inches from any objectives This is the original pre-faq language. I'm reading in addition to any other restrictions that apply to it Sometimes this will make it impossible for a faction terrain piece to be set up in this case. It is not used In this case people riot How did you This Take your allegiance abilities and shove it. Yeah. Yeah In which case you paid money for something and you've had this factored into your army and you can screw you You don't get any of that go home Yeah, well, I mean, I mean it is par for the course with scenarios like total commitment Right. Yeah, that's a good point. That does take away allegiance ability. So it's fine Uh That that shortened shooting ranges 12 inches like I mean Like I I say jokingly, but let's put this in context Like there are other things that are doing this exact same type of thing The rumbability isn't like the absolute worst because you still can shoot like you still you get The the the total commitment though the biggest problem with that and I think we're all in agreement on this It only hurt armies that did not need to be hurt Of course like and yes the key to all the things you just said tom is I don't like any of them So that's fine Like yes, I agree. Those are more bad examples. Let's not do any of that That sounds great You I told you I don't like getting punched in the face and you said but what about getting punched in the chest And I was like, no, that's that's all so bad. I'm neither of those things We could avoid that that that that violence part of it. We'd be okay. Thanks bud. Yeah, exactly What if I just use a little less force? No, no Avoid that. Yeah. Yeah, no So I'll be interested to see what we get as far as because they have a chance to reform this obviously they did the they did the FAQ What's it gonna say in the new book? We didn't talk about training We did our ghb 2020 predictions because I knew I wanted to do the show coming up because I knew you were Coming on the show and we were gonna talk terrain anthony most likely And so I I wanted to save that for this because at the same time that they printed what is truly like One of the silliest things I've ever seen printed in a book They also gave us six new Uh scenery rules That I really like like for the most part. I actually quite like The new scenery rules. Uh, so this is the secondary scenery table, right? So overgrown entangling volcanic commanding healing and nullification With the exception that healing is dumb and doesn't actually do anything Uh, and like when you roll healing, I couldn't be more sad. I'm like, oh, so so you rolled nothing for that one Okay, that might as well just say na because the chances of it actually healing a wound in the course of the game is Let's call it minimal Well, I mean, it's similar to volcanic though On roll of six well, it is except people who are alive can always take wounds But people who are alive can't always heal wounds True That would be the difference now true volcanic would be next up on my list of being bad because it's not very volcanic like yeah You can easily roll through a game sitting on volcanic terrain And never have it do anything so For me, maybe unpopular opinion I wish to rain played a slightly bigger part like I wish You're back in the old uh deadly rules And I wish volcanic was like on a four up d three on a six three mortal wounds Sure. I'll yeah. No, I'm I'm completely for that. I I'd maybe go Maybe I'd go swinging in a different direction where it'd be like on a six d six plus one mortal wounds Yeah, okay, but but sure we're in the same we're in the same bay here. We're agreeing volcanic if the volcano explodes That should be impactful I think you remember You really had to make a choice on if you were going to run through deadly terrain Because it really could mess some stuff up that you were trying to set up or do and now it's like oh on a You know, I don't want I'm going to take these from out of a crap. I'm running through it every time I have never ever hesitated to set up or care about that Like I've never cared about deadly terrain The only time it's ever triggered on me in a tournament game was when we were playing meff and Joe and there we were sitting up on the big volcanic river that steve has on the on the chaos pillar table And all of my slanesh heroes were sitting on the line and he popped the volcanic in the first turn I was like, oh, yes Give me that sweet depravity Just roll it in So, uh, I was good with that Then they all just turn and you know heal themselves right away because they all had the the healing spells so Who cares? You know the but like the other ones like overgrown and entangling and commanding and nullification I think can all actually be really impactful because uh Because like overgrown The fact that it blocks line of sight to non-flying models is a really big deal That you can have this huge piece of line of sight blocking terrain Entangling is like you want to scare people from going into an area make it entangling people will avoid entangling Like the plague Right because minus two to run in charge. It's crazy Even overgrown on even just a small footprint piece of terrain can really You know not not can you not be seen so you can't be shot or something like that But you then don't have line of sight to smooth your models that maybe you want to buff with a spell or something On those lines so it really can play you know some some real havoc on the game there, which I love Yeah, absolutely. I mean the I think that and you know commanding is Is maybe too good. Honestly. It's so potent Yeah, uh, and it's it's the one I called out originally as being like I can't believe this isn't on a dice roll You know volcanic only happening on a six plus But if if I hold if I if there's you know commanding terrain and only and only I hold it right with my general Uh, then I'm getting 50 points basically of value of my army every round, you know Uh, I will also say I do love playing commanding terrain with my slanesh invaders army where you've got three generals Makes it a lot easier to really really squeeze the value out of that But you know commanding is just so Unbelievably powerful and honestly, it's the one I'd love to see wheeled back and make it like on a fora make it like everything in every Book because they've printed that rule now as a command trade for almost every army, right? Four plus you get an extra man. Okay, cool The hardest decision you have to make when you roll up to the table and you see that side has our cane terrain This side has commanding. Oh, which one do I want more? Yeah, yeah, sure. Absolutely That is that that is always met the great divide Right, especially for like, you know, I love seraphine Especially for seraphine. I'm like, oh that that bonus to casting and dispelling or more command points, which I love command points Now the this army actually has a use for them. Like, oh, what do I do? Can we all admit that uh, that's sinister and inspiring are pointless worthless. Yeah Minus one bravery Like that's not part of the game I'm sorry. Like I know you wanted that to be part of the game But you you've written enough rules now that that just isn't really that relevant I mean ghp 2020 takes the bravery stat and drops it off of all the the war scrolls and replaces it with something actual meaningful because Like just the only like the very very Corner of a corner of a corner cases where I've had it Come into effect, you know, like it's not I won't say it's never like Never happened, but jeezalpeets. Is it like As the game has progressed it has gotten less and less important to think about Right, right Yeah, to me that it's the it's the two that I look at from the original one and go wow I don't care at all I'll also state that like dammed Doesn't often make sense anymore Right, so like obviously damned as you can pick the unit and make a sacrifice if you do they suffer d3 mortals But they can reroll hit rolls of one like That being in the same book where you have a command ability that lets you do that Like I appreciate that it's an alternate way to get at that But it's for a lot of the armies that would want to use that all the time. They don't tend to have command point problems So I don't know it feels like maybe damned if you're going to be taking more wounds It could be something like a reroll hit and wound rolls of one or something like that, right? I'd be like, well, okay, cool. That's that would be actually now I have a reason to do that instead of spanning a command point, right? Yeah, yeah, so But I like all the rules And let's talk about setting these up at tournament because I think The code has been cracked because somebody asked this question So soren asked at your last tournament. Did they use the terrain rules and would you have wanted them to or not to? So The answer is at steve's turn, which the technically the last tournament I went to is at the end of the year Which is which was steve's tournament, which was holy or beginning of the year Sorry, right before all this went crazy. So it was holy or sorry in february is the last tournament I went to and Yes, steve does use all of the terrain rules, but steve's Tables at the holy events are like a third player in the game They are brutal, absolutely brutal and beautiful. I mean that's Yeah, they're like they are um They are They are a singular experience. You don't know what the word deadly terrain means Until you've played on one of steve's tables in in the holy events now Yeah, yeah, I mean so you take the monolith and go i'm just gonna run this through my slanesh army and gain depravity from it Suckers unless that goes horribly badly. I had that thing. I was playing slanesh And kenny lull smashed the big tower into my archeon And he kept rolling the additional d6 mortal wounds thing My god And he killed archeon and like archeon had been minorly wounded by something but he did 18 holy wounds to archeon in like a pass of the tower and just Just crushed him into the ground and I was like, all right. Well, there he goes. Oh, that's how this game's going That's how this game's going Uh, so Uh at any rate Uh, oh, I know his frost lord on stone horn had done some wounds to him. That's what killed it Or that's what he wounded archeon But archeon put him in the sword. So, you know getting a sword uh the um the The the tournament I think cracked the code is what happened last year at nash con anthony. That's what it was and that uh, so that happened because uh, i'm a sucker for a good product and uh David and Jacob barry we're talking about because rob was coming to stream Uh, we were there. David always uses uh, scenery rules. Anyway, they were going to hand write on a piece of paper The sin. I was like, I can't have that. So I went to propane the podcast and I highly recommend their product and I wish I had them with me, but they're Sucked away in the closet over here. I bought I think it was 12 sets of each Side of the scenery table. So we had enough markers to do like 600 and some odd pieces of terrain And after we set up each table, we just I took up the giant gallon bag It was about bag put them all and turned it up and we just walked through and popped it out as random as could be Here you go. Yeah, and just put them on the table and you were good to go and uh Yeah, it seemed to work really well. Um, I don't think Anybody could complain about it. No, it was it was so easy because it was a so just so everybody understands It was a tiny little plastic like little placard basically And it said arcane or mystical or overgrown or whatever And you he printed them all and had them in just a giant bag and I remember I did some tables Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it's like this. These are his, uh, It's seraph and tokens and that kind of those but it's just hard acrylic And it just had the word etched in it of what it was. Yep It was super easy to read and it would just walk around And we had them in a couple big bags And it was just like you kind of blindly reach in pick and go okay. I'm gonna do this piece boom set it on there Oh, neat. That's this reach in boom. You're just like it's just you're fishing in it in this big giant bag Right, so you don't know what you're gonna pull out and you're just like boop boop boop boop boop boop And you just hit them all and then David went along behind And just like did some to Adjustment, right? He was like, oh this table has volcanic terrain on it and there's a volcano on this table We're gonna put that right like move that over to actually be volcanic. Yeah doing some sensible things Or like There was sometimes where just because it was random and so for the most part what that meant is Most the tables were just great, but there was a couple where it was like, okay This side of the table is entangling and sinister And deadly And this side of the table has arcane mystical commanding. Okay Yeah, let's let's bounce this out a little bit. Yeah Right And so yeah, I mean David just went along corrected the few tables that were kind of out of bounds and it was We were off to the races. It was great. It was so easy to use it People didn't have to worry about it. It was it was no stress at all. Yeah, it was perfect I think it worked out really well I was I was really happy that I did it and I've used those in a couple smaller tournaments I've helped run in in the North Carolina area recently and Everybody seems to enjoy it greatly. So Uh, I just want to say autumn lotus. I tend to agree with you. I love Heavy terrain games like if it was me, I'm a heavy terrain guy all the way I like a lot of stuff on the table I like it when you have to when you have to take it into your plan When the terrain is causing you to play a different way because it's in your way or it's making you move Or it's going to block certain things like yes, that to me says that terrain is doing something cool Now it can be sometimes fun to play on the on the soccer field, you know, like that's okay Um, yeah, where you've got I mean, you know battles did of course happen sometimes on open Completely open fields as well often It's not like a rare thing. It's just I like having in my personal taste I love having like ruined buildings and big things and stuff you gotta walk around I love seeing I made a comment one time on uh, the honest four gamer Uh chat and I just said, you know, I'm just trying to help people see in color with sort of printing terrain like I it just makes the game more merciful to me and it just looks better and um, you know, I went to The nova opened the first year Chuck ran it and he ran a good tournament But my comment to him was your terrain is very lacking on these tables with the amount of people playing here and this year Chuck got in touch with me earlier in the year and I've sent him a bunch of terrain because he's going to up his game because he realizes The players deserve a little bit nicer scenery to play on and you know make the the tables a little bit better So yeah part of the challenge poor chuck was dealing with is as you know, when he took that over and did Sort of resources they he was inheriting a lot of the 40k terrain and Functional but but yeah, but not and that was no knock on chuck again I mean he ran a good tournament and he just you know, use the people around you You know, uh, don't miss is great for that come a depth icon where you have a bunch of people He reaches out and like hey That person's gonna make a couple pieces He has the ultimate control over it because he's a perfectionist, you know with with his tables too, which is perfectly fine I mean that's a you know That scale of people and you have good terrain on, you know, 95 percent of the tables is an amazing thing Yeah, uh Yeah, no, I uh, I mean domus's work. He was doing on all the Sigma right whatever whatever they're called the thing we can't remember the name Whatever the new pieces Yes, uh, was just gorgeous like he was doing all the marbling work and everything like just an incredible amount of work He was putting into it Filling out hundreds and hundreds of tables. I mean he had dozens and dozens of those things lined up that he was doing I'm all it's it's insane. What that tells me is get ready because 2021 a depth icon is gonna be some amazing tables for sure So, yeah, definitely All right, right on So I think that the the rules are usable But I'd like is there anything else you guys would want to see changed on that base table No, I mean that covers it for me. Yeah, no, um Yeah, no, exactly what we said get rid of the crap rules there that makes it unplayable and uh Just slight wording changes on some of these to make them a little more impactful and I think it'd be great All right, so let's do a little let's do a little pop quiz fun thought experiment. All right Let's say we strike a couple off that are bad. Let's just imagine we create some space What do you want to see added? You can pick like if you've got your choice to add one or two new things to the table Like we're gonna remove the dumb boring ones like inspiring and sinister What are we what are we adding? That's a good question um Do we have anything that gives battle shock immunity right now? No, but again, is that really That needed How about I don't know so the The seraphim terrain has it But unless you're playing special rules, no other terrain on the board will ever have it being able to garrison train Random role unless you're actually using the garrisoning rules. Yeah, right. We're still pretty building. Yeah Yeah, but let's uh, let's have a role for Garrisoning of full terrain you can actually so everybody has an option to do it. Okay. Sure. So that that thing is garrisonable in some way Okay, I can see that I like that Tom Uh, what if instead of something like commanding, what if we did something that reduced? So the problem with commanding is it gives you command points that you can use for other things What if you did something where it reduced the command points spent? so like command abilities in this area activated um, or um, or Maybe you could do something like when a generic command ability is activated or like once per turn You know, you can spend it on anything like a non-war scroll command ability or something So like basically tone take something what's in commanding and tone it down All right, okay What about uh, I just had another pop in my head What about like the rules for The realm gates where you have a piece of terrain that allows you to teleport to any other piece of terrain on the battlefield You know, but you have to maintain the same nine inches away from enemy models And you know all of your guys have to be within You know, whatever three to six inches of that terrain kind of like an updated baleful realm gate basically Yeah, yeah, essentially but like putting that on to another thing that's already on to another terrain And it's just this way you don't have to have two on the same table It's just this terrain piece it has that energy that allows you to teleport to any other terrain piece you want to go to Adhering to the guidelines of where you kind of can't come out of okay. All right Okay, cool uh I would uh How about something like Haunted or you know like cursed and something like that kind of thing is what I'm going for. Okay Where uh You know in your hero phase you Uh, you roll a die and on a six like this spooky ghost attack you and you take some damage But in addition to that because of the unsettling nature of the terrain The the unit that's here cannot benefit from inspiring presence I like it. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So then like the only people who could be battle shock immune would be somebody like If you have a command ability or or something that directly does it right like a direct command ability that grants battle shock immune Which by the way tends to be dead people who would be the least scared of the the spooky haunting ghosts, right? So So that kind of works and I think that would be I think I think that'd be fun having the ghosts come out and attack you every so often I think like Uh infested Could be a cool idea. Okay And I don't mean that necessarily in like a not a diseased way, but like infested with Rats or or it could be you know, sort of plaguey things or stuff like that But where uh the unit when they're there is constantly uh less able to Defend themselves because they're getting clawed by tiny rats and creatures like that and so like, you know uh Could be we could go all we could go the most harsh version of that which would be neg one to save Right, or you could have things like you have to re-roll Uh rolls of six for your armor save Right. So kind of the inverse of a mystic shield, right like an anti mystic shield basically um So that could be fun I was just thinking you know, it's a plethora of uh good resources for ideas for this is uh, what we talked about earlier herner's tables Like he's got so many cool things like uh, I mean some would you with certain armies you'd hate to roll up on But that's the randomness of it like uh on his long tribe table if you're within x inches of this You uh, everybody gains plus one attack Yeah, so they're they're melee profile. Yep That's disgusting in some cases And even more gross than others No, absolutely like I I would love to see something that's like, uh Shard of rage or something like that, you know or like Enraging or something like that right because they try to make the word so enraging would be the word and like Yeah, if you're if you're on or within an inch of the terrain Then you know you you get plus one to attack with all weapon profiles or something like that just brutal like I like big bonus I like bonuses as well as penalties because if there's enough of that stuff the problem is if there's only a couple good ones Like when it's only arcane or commanding or maybe mystical or whatever It can really make the difference Then if one side has that if you just roll randomly it tends to be the only one side's gonna end up with a very usable piece of terrain if there's like um You know if there's like five or six or seven pretty interesting, but pseudo potents Uh items then it's just gonna get spread out right you can have them on both sides Or the end in the middle so And to me that just seems better yeah I do like this one that uh Eric That's that's littered here Plus one to run in charge like paved road. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sure Why not sure you got something that slows you down. You got one that speeds you up Free cogs for everybody. Absolutely I know, uh, I know tom would love that piece of terrain and he would be on it All the time he would just naturally He would go three inches out of his way to get plus one to run in charge. Absolutely. I mean I would Yeah It checks out the math checks out. Yep. Yep uh, all right uh so Let's talk a little about faction terrain. This is something we've covered a lot of times But I think it's worth just having a little bit of discussion about in this context, right? Of the broader the broader board So we've seen obviously the trend now with multiple pieces of terrain that are set up before everything else is Everything else is set up. I'm making finger air quotes because obviously at a tournament that's not possible And so you have to allow for the nudge or the whatever right uh Should we still be going down like but yet with the seraphon when that caused the funny thing where yes, they get a building That they don't necessarily get to use We get a building that anybody can garrison if we don't win that role Yeah Like it's it is the weirdest piece of terrain Yeah Yeah, that's uh I don't get that one personally, but okay so What do we what what do you want to see we've talked a lot in the past about the various terrain things and how I think the only ones that I really like are the ones that are like The ones that I'm sorry have an incredibly strong versimilitude to the race itself and what it's doing there And it makes sense in its context on the battlefield the herd stone Right being a great example of something where yes, it looks propped up It's obvious that the the beastmen drag this thing around and when the fight's about to start They push it up and it's literally held up by a bunch of sticks that aren't gonna last And it's there You know just to exist for for the purpose of them to get frenzied and go have a fight in all hot Easy to drag along just go no problem. Yep. I mean that one guy literally has one dragging behind him all the time. So sure Clearly they're just dragging around a lot of food Whereas some of them like the corn altar I understand your story that the slaughter priest just raises the altar from the ground with a blessing of corn uh nice try That's humble. Yeah, that does not work because if the slaughter priest has that ability make eight of them Yeah, why did he stop at one? I mean I'm just gonna drag this big uh You know half mountain that I carved in the shape of a moon with me everywhere I go Sure, because that's how I roll. Yeah, here's a secret trick for the armies of the of the mortal realms If you see a giant rock formation that looks kind of like a moon don't have your battle in that area Right Get you right there. See that's that's some that's some uh, that's some big brain thinking right there, uh at any rate um And don't ever get me started on the bone tie the nexus and what that is doing it all of the the obr's battlefields as they're as they're setting up this this, uh Uh, gosh darn it. I can't think of Pitch black the second one Uh, it wasn't called pitch black. Whatever the one with Vin Diesel. Yes. It's the bad guys edifice as they left behind Indeed Uh so What do you want to see out of future faction terrain Tom, what's your what's your hope for future faction terrain? uh That it goes away We're pretty sure the luminous don't have any so I mean We're pretty sure the giants don't have any there's two in a row Yeah, it's gonna happen at some point. So I mean is your answer just please do less of it unless it absolutely makes sense Yes, really the answer. Yes, that's exactly that's exactly it Uh so What would you want to see out of something that makes sense like we're gonna be remaking armies. So, you know like they'll be uh Probably up on the block Is Or things that we might see are like in our all the big maybe category is like mortal slanesh Okay, maybe they just use you get to you get to use the fame Yeah, maybe or maybe not. Maybe they just don't have one Redoing idk Which I would love for them to just clean up the rules of you either get two half boats or one full boat Why do you get two full boats? It is the most egregious Thing that you get to like put down those two giant boats. It's way they are Okay, that's a lot of real estate that you just yeah, it's too much. It's too much And by the way, I understand people say idk use those boats to win and I agree right now But when you make a new book, please fix the rest of the army and thank you And get that shit out of here. Yeah, yeah, just cut it down. You know one full ship two half ships great Not too full ships. You're right Like I just I hate those ships so much. I know that's too high. They drive me bonkers Uh Is general terrain just not the action train The feculate gnarl maw is another one in the really good category I think because again it makes sense as the nergal army marchers forth These gross trees just kind of spring up and represent the spreading of the plague father. Okay, cool I'm down with that and and they're small. They're rather unappreciative A plus like that's fine Would it be too much if doc gets a reprint you want to see a piece of terrain there? No Here's the thing would it be too much to say That no more actual faction terrain. They don't get an actual piece, but they have rules and they turn on A piece that's on the table into something. I would love that so much more You know one Let's be honest traveling with a lot of terrain no matter what Sylvaneth is obviously the worst but traveling with a bonfire nexus or this Serpent pyramid that's a pain in a ball bag. I don't want to have to deal with it So the size of the rest of the army combined like what's the point? Um, so just have like, okay, you know that piece of terrain over there became our holy spot that we're fighting Over that piece of terrain got blessed by cain and that's where we think is you know Iron heart now lives and we're gonna go get it. Whatever the case may be Why just do it that way? I think it'd be easier Yeah, somebody in the comments scott asked what about the Sylvaneth Wildwoods? The Sylvaneth Wildwoods were fundamentally misdesigned Uh, the correct answer was it should have been at Wildwood and they place it at the beginning of the game Like everybody else is standard one terrain and the rest of it should have been exactly what anthony just described Where all their spells and everything they did just overgrows their the existing train pieces And they now count as Sylvaneth Wildwoods. It would have made the army so much easier to play It would have made the army a lesser financial investment much less annoying to transport It would have been more fun because you could even take over enemy terrain pieces and make them part of yours like It would have been the it is the low-hanging fruit slam dunk that was so obvious and right in front of them I've we've been saying it for a year and a half by the way Right and they they just they missed the boat on that like I they should have one wood and it should be one wood And yes, that would mean if you bought a bunch of woods all the rest of those woods go to waste And i'm sorry for your luck, but now you have a much better set of rules Yeah You know, I guess that's Good, I guess right Yeah I will say automotive just cracked out a pretty nice idea Imagine if they made another canite statue like the thing on the back of the the cauldron obviously, right? But four times the size it's a terrain piece that can be activated with its own warp scroll rules So like the regular avatar you can activate this one too. Well, it could walk around and punch people That would be amazing Cyclops style out of its eyes. It'd be like the never Uh, yeah, the never ending story or whatever. Yeah, or just make it so that make it so that the So that the altar of k like that the altar statue When based is the terrain piece so it actually ever sees the tabletop It does see the tabletop all the time On the back of cauldrons of blood I'm talking about as a standalone piece. Yeah, no, I want a giant four up We got to see if there's a there's an stl file that looks kind of like that that we can print in giant size I can look into that. Yeah, I don't want anything nothing copyright infringing. It can be the avatar of of Rage Yeah, yeah, no, I'm against the copyright stuff. No, no along those lines IDK if anybody follows me on Twitter they have seen probably my most favorite piece. I've printed which was The dragon turtle with the you know mountain and trees growing out of its back and I printed it It's almost 12 inches by like eight inches wide It is amazing and why can't the IDK just have a nice turtle that swims around? But like three times the size of the turtle they have That's right. We're still really big turtle Yeah, I mean dragon turtles are amazing. You're not gonna you're not gonna get me bagging on dragon turtles If you play dnd and you don't love dragon turtles, I don't know what you're doing with your life I I'm not gonna lie. I literally tried to convince my wife that I needed to buy a uh cr10 max, which is Like three times the size of my current biggest printer just so that I could print that thing like almost Like jacob barry put the idea in my head. He's a bad influence sometimes printed as a war cry board Like make it big enough to be its own war cry board So I was like, yes. Yes. I need to do this. Do you have any resin printers right now, anthony? I do not. Um, that's something I've been thinking about heavily recently, but Uh It's a whole new beast. It's a whole new thing and it's quite toxic and I don't have room in this office for it So going my garage and so on and so forth With that being said, if anybody knows resin printers elgu is releasing a new one On the 10th of this month for pre-order That is a decent enough size at a decent enough price That I might actually get into That I just have to find a way to hide it from my wife for a while so that she doesn't kill me Does that have a different do you have to do like a different setup and slicing and stuff without completely different Yeah, it uses a completely different slicing software It uses you have to use supports on 99% of stuff because of the way they angle it But it's a completely different support setup where instead of encapsulating the entire thing and like solid supports It's just some shoots that come up and then touch in specific points. Um, it's It's not that hard From what I've seen doing it. I haven't personally done it, but uh, I know some people that have done it And I follow other people that did it and it did in theory. It's not that hard It's the whole cleanup process afterwards Um, because you don't want the uncured resin on your skins and whatnot And then you have to do some post-processing afterwards like you would anyway But sanding that is pretty you're still sanding resin, which is not great for you to breathe in and all that kind of stuff Um, and in general, uh, most resins have an odor that they produce that could make you Affects people differently. Some people don't have any problems with it. Some people can give headaches and make it queasy Um, so you want to be in a well-ventilated area um And the biggest problem for me and what I use Uh printers for terrain At the good price points, they have very small bill plates So I wouldn't really be able to use it. Um For most stuff that I would want to do they have Come out recently with some really big printers, but they also then the cost is exponentially more Um, and this new printer is kind of like in the middle so it might Fit the bill i'm gonna do a little more research and make a decision here soon, but it's possible Um, we had talked once before you would approach me about doing some bases And I told you the technology that I have in fdm printing It's not really suited for bases in my opinion because the detail quality is to You get the printing lines too much like I I've got it down to where they're minimal and they hide pretty well But when you want something like a base you want none. So you definitely want resin um and Then you got to be careful too because sometimes Some of the chemicals you put on there like if you were to put on uh other resins for Water effects they can melt the resin or they can warp it badly So it's a it's a whole another bullet yeah, um if anybody follows Luke's a ps on YouTube He did a video not too far back and he was using like a crackle paint Um and like hobby store crackle paint too because he wants to do a bigger board But he was testing it on bases and he had some resin printed bases that he hadn't primed yet And he just put the crackle paint on it and when it dried up it bowed the bases like tremendously So Yeah, yeah, there's so there's a whole different size. Maybe he didn't cure them long enough There's a whole variables to that too depending on what resins you use and all this other stuff to you So it's a that's a bore everybody with that But if yeah, it's a it's a whole different animal that that you got to do a little bit more research on before you just jump into that yeah No, it's just interesting because I mean it it leads well into what I wanted to talk about which is You've obviously been 3d printing so much train. We saw that set you did earlier I know that I think most of the the Like going to nashkahn's an absolute joy because of the incredible tables that you've done frankly What 90% of the printing for in most tables so yeah, yeah um And I mean tom how much terrain did you print it on yours? I mean, has that been a largely what you were using yours for as well? I mean, it's the only thing that I do like here's a box of stuff that I just got done um, I have like you can't see it, but I have an entire Um, like my entire bookshelf up here is printed terrain. I have I have an entire box That's with a friend that he's using to play Um, like more time with so like yeah, that's what that's why I bought it. I bought it specifically for um for printing train Nice, it's a great asset for it. Um, and you can Well, there's a lot of cool files And that nashkahn has grown in people and we've been able to grow the tables because of the amount of terrain I've been willing to to you know donate to uh to the event You know, I technically own all of it Me and David have an agreement if I ever wanted and I can have whatever terrain I want back But I give it to him Of free will to paint and use because I enjoy the hobby. I get great gratification I've seen the tables done and again, I really want people to enjoy playing on cool tables So I really do enjoy that Uh, same reason why I've asked for nothing But uh chuck to cover shipping costs for me to ship him terrain for nova not a penny more I that's all I said is please just say the shipping across about 25 bucks a box to ship Almost a table's worth of terrain each time because there are some larger pieces And I said, you know, I said if you'll just cover the shipping to go to it. I cover all the rest which is Not cheap. It's not overly expensive, but it's definitely Not cheap by any stretch the imagination Um, I think last year we estimated Not counting like electric and everything to run the machines Um, or the cost of the machines just in Digital files I purchased and materials filaments I purchased Just for nash con I spent somewhere around $2,500 for The tournament last year just so that I could produce terrain for tables. Wow Yeah, I now I buy a lot of files because I like different things Sure, and I buy a lot of filament and there's also some other things affected that like I um, I'd print Bases for dreadsaurians and sure Corn dragons that I sell in ebay. So I there's so those printed. I've printed uh movement trays That I also sell in ebay for you know, the different sizes the coherency trays So those are fact in there too, but they they honestly use minimal filament Um pretty so but yeah, I I don't care. I enjoy it. It's another hobby, you know I've got tons of plastic models sitting here unpainted and I have tons of plastic Buildings sitting here now unpainted that Are all over the place. So whatever it's fun. Nice. Nice. I dig it Yeah, I mean to me It's the right answer to supplement the tables because it just adds so much to what's there you can do like the One of the main things is and and let's just go down this rabbit hole for just a moment How much do you like verticality on your table tom? What do you what's your sense about you understand what i'm saying, right? Yeah, I like verticality. Um, I don't feel like it's necessary, but I like it I like Blindness like blocking is more important to me. Okay, so you you're you're you're more about the girth Of the terrain as it were and its height its ability to block terrain Sure, so you're more about you're more about girth and height. Yep. Okay. Yeah, got it there needs to be a balance to both because I've printed some pieces of terrain that you could put Five pieces on a table and you would struggle to If you didn't want to be on the terrain you would struggle to put 10 models on either side of the table Right because they are just so large which having one of those, you know on a piece of on a table is nice But I like having different levels because it's different eye catching and it shows a scene a little better and You know those kind of things and also for it can be advantageous For some models with flying you can post stuff up there and whatnot Or you know, it's just overall I think it sets a good scene and and I like the the picture that it shows when you're playing Yeah, I agree. I mean if you're doing like the small skirmish games, obviously what we're talking about You know war cry or something like that or or in the world of like necromunda or something then Obviously verticality is the is the name of the game. You've got to have vertical space to to go up and down Uh in the regular game of warhammer. I do like having A big piece or two that has some vertical height to it at least So that if you do have a flying unit or a flying here or something they can kind of Swoop up their land on it. I just and like I think it just adds a great deal to the Almost the visual of what's happening when the game is going on. There's something cool about that monster that hero Perching up there on top of the thing looking down over the battlefield. I sound so stupid But I to me there really is that like sweet moment Of the the hero or the monster being up there just surveying across the battlefield like looking to what they're gonna do so I don't know. That's it's it's a thing to me. It helps. It spurs my imagination So I don't know. I mean we're in the same category or not Let's just look back at the uh base that your Archeon slaneshi allario conversion Yeah, that is just like this menacing I'm crushing slash coming over this but like the scene it sets you can do that same thing in table play If that model's on a normal base and you had a piece of room and terrain there where you can Prop that up there. Look equally as epic. Yeah Yeah, I mean she does bring her own terrain with her for sure. Just she brings her own building I always make sure my centerpiece models bring their own terrain with them Like they they they have to be able to bring like if they're going to give me a 160 mil or 130 mil round base I I don't know what to do with that besides put a piece of terrain on it and then put the monster on top of it I mean, it's why would you ever put something on the ground? Especially if it flies that makes no sense It's just amazing. It's it's that so that's a waste. It's complete waste Uh, okay Anything else we is there anything else gentlemen? We haven't we haven't talked about With gw terrain. Is there any other or with sorry train in age sigma or gw train or anything like that Is there anything we haven't hit on that you think you want to touch on for the for the future think about like go forward Anything like that I mean, I would like to see gw put out some nice general terrain for the fantasy scene that isn't faction terrain Um, I mean, there's nothing wrong with using some of the faction terrain as general terrain I mean, uh, don't miss it at tecton Last year had knolls that he had painted up for an ocean board and they looked fantastic On there and you know, you can Do some stuff with you I mean if someone really wanted to spend the money you could probably make Two pieces of generalized terrain out of an obr Uh, monolith thing just you know ruin out part of it and stick to the top end on another base You know, you could have two pieces of terrain so you can turn that stuff but I would also still like to see some stuff like that uh altar of skulls or whatever that that was called and you know the Uh skull vein man's and you know, they'll watch tower and some stuff like that just some generalized fantasy terrain because Yeah, while I do love 3d printing stuff too. There's nothing wrong with the stuff They make also what having the extra diversity in there Yeah, so I I do like I would like to see them produce some more Generalized stuff of their own too and of substantial size too. I did not realize how tiny the uh Penumbrile engine was they are very small smaller than you think yeah Oh my god, it's like the size of my now mind do I have a fat hand because I'm chunky, but like it's the size of my Fist I'm like that's just yeah Yeah, when it was described I was like, oh, it's you know, supposed to be something like this is kind of Well small for my taste underwhelming is the word you're looking for Yeah, I mean you can basically fit a normal human size 32 millimeter person inside the Inside the thing like one one fig could sit in the middle of it pretty comfortably. That's about the size of the the Engine itself right Yeah, you wanted to play like stargate. I could put quite a few up on this thing. Oh nice nice I we threw out an idea a long time ago that I think is worth resurrecting here Realm terrain boxes Yes, do it right wouldn't it be bad like don't you want to see the Box where you can go by the I'll give you I'll give you my my pitch because this is the one I'd want to see the most I want to see the high terrain Yeah, okay What would that look like to you? All right in the art. It's always these big looming slightly angled Washington monument style obelisks and pillars and sort of Ziggurat type of structures, you know very Uh Very sharp angles and tall You know potent structures Uh, I think that is exactly what I would what I would want to see. I think Just floating like they do floating stuff all the time. So we all know what I mean by floating, right? It would actually mean okay, so like the night haunts are floating Creatures, they obviously do have a base point connection, but they appear to be very airborne So floating pillars and things like that I would I think that would be amazing what they could do with all sorts of different styles of obelisks and and ziggurats not necessarily like the Seraphon pyramid right there's right. I mean truly just uh Almost like something that isn't meant to be occupied much more angular much more of a triangle like a sharp Maybe like, you know very small stepped ziggurat or something like that right those sorts of things Yeah, I think that would be there's probably so much more because off of the floating pillar They could have other floating rocks Oh, yeah So it just seemed that like the whole piece was kind of airborne And all of those rocks are defying gravity as you put them all together I think that'd be amazing I'm a pretty sweet Tom any other is there any like is there any sort of terrain you'd want to see in the future? I don't know like I'm a big fan of the castles. I know a lot of people aren't um, but I would love if we had some type of return to that type of You know like obviously you talk we talked about the realm terrain, but like I would have loved to have seen like a death castle Right Like we saw with obr in there like set piece stuff got me really excited These big skull edifices and all that But uh, but obviously all that was constructed um, so I don't know I uh Yeah, I don't know I mean the The obviously we had the big hell fort right and that was your chaos uh Fortress let's call it fortress because that was really the fair way to say it castles castle conjures the wrong image That was truly a fortress, right? Yeah And in the in the wrath of the ever chosen we saw a death take over Their main fortress there which was clearly a hell fort in its description They the way they described it. It felt very much like they were describing that piece of terrain Yeah, but that's another way they could go if you're if we're talking about box terrain sets Here's one we could do a cities of sigmar Yes, yeah Okay, and it could be some of the buildings in the city It could be walls Embattlements and there could be different collections of it just like there is now right now for the sigmarite stuff Right where you can kind of it's modular and certain pieces go together and you have the big giant Here's the all-inset, but here's the small components too And so then you could have yes some of the buildings that look more classic of hammer hall or anvil guard or stuff like that But you could also have big walls of like gray water fastness with you know flat areas that you can put artillery and defend It and battle or battlements and stuff like that Yeah, and you could easily have those Mix and match in various kits and it would be Build your own city of sigmar Literally Right and then just tell the ruin diversions of those also. So you have the nice version and the ruined version right that Boom, yeah I think that'd be a winner. I have to imagine people would snatch that up Yeah Oh earlier this year I printed a bunch of terrain from a kickstarter I'm working on the last piece which would be the centerpiece for the table and it all is like It reminded me of like an azir look like sigmar's Stuff and that's what uh, david's having it painted up as for an ash con and it looks like that would be like a zir table It just looks so cool. Like it would fit into that that scene so when I When I post stuff up on twitter I try to Now give a little description but have a little fluff with it too just for fun for my own sanity And everything I put up with that was you know, something is zir based recently I did a couple things that like oh and gur you find this, uh, you know shrine which You know Vine goddess statue that is I saw that print dude that thing is amazing. Yeah So he he's releasing uh, like a standing version of it that he's calling this is uh Shrine of a fallen goddess is what he calls this one and the next one that's coming out in a couple days is uh Goddess of light and it's like essentially this figure but not broken standing with a staff I'm uh, I'm looking to print that as soon as that gets released and Lots of just lots of cool stuff But I mean, yeah, I really like the idea of like the realms because when I print stuff That's one of the things that I think in my head of like what realm is this from what kind of story Can I tell? um, you know when with idk it doesn't necessarily have to be from a realm, but like I bought a uh A fat mat that is the uh ocean and so I have a complete setup of underwater Atlantean ruin terrain that we're gonna Paint up and that'll be your your underwater ether sea, you know board which is just I I think it's pretty cool. And that's where my dragon turtle world will wind up as a piece of terrain Um, so just you know, I always try to have stuff like that And then theme theme tables in general, which I just think look cooler than just pieces thrown out there like We had the elven table which could also have been in you could put that in in my opinion incur Because it was more wood elfian. It could also be though in in uh high ish Like Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, and then we had you know the the dwarven table which You know pick your pick your realm could be fire could be actually could be you know could could be wherever So, I mean, I I like seeing that and and crafting that kind of narrative in my head is i'm working on stuff too. It just It makes a little more enjoyable to me too Oh, one of the i'll show you This i'm actually um Uh, I printed this and I printed this With a couple different people in mind. It's a an elven tower Um, I had some rainbow filament left over and I shared this on twitter and it just it's a shame that this should Really does need to be painted because it just looks so cool in the rainbow filament now But um someone who who likes elves, but I hadn't seen on twitter in a while Um a couple weeks ago. I reached out to them Anybody knows brice and I said dude. I haven't seen you on in a while. Are you okay? If you need someone to talk to Please reach out and also if I can put a smile on your face. I'm gonna mail you this when I get a second Because I think you'll enjoy it and and we talked for a minute and you obviously Is more than grateful to to be getting But uh, just you know, that was uh to be able That is awesome It it came out cool. Yeah nice Yeah, I think the the key to me is There's so much more to explore. We all want to be able to construct our version of the realms Whether that means the cities or the individual realms they've been told and we just haven't been given enough Like it's fine. I don't mind constructing our zone and using the 3d print stuff because there's great stuff out there But it does feel like they should be offering more Of an ability to create and construct the realms in the kits Right, this is this is the new land. You've told us is where we're all fighting these battles And yet we still have a relatively limited ability to construct that thing Yeah, and that's strange to me I agree Yeah, all right gentlemen. Well anything else you want to say about train before we call it a night? This is good No, I just if you uh, go to an event I hope it has great terrain on the tables because I find My personal opinion. I enjoy the games much better than that and I think most people do so Hopefully everybody can play some games soon where they can play on some great looking tables I agree And anthony's twitter will be down in the description. You should go follow him. He always shares out pictures and awesome Tweetish updates about all the stuff that you're you're printing and it's amazing So when you printed that that fallen got a statue that blew my mind, dude. I love that one that was That was a cool one when he released that file like I I have a backlog of stuff I want to print a mile long and some stuff I want to reprint and whatnot But anytime I see a file that grabs me it instantly Once it gets yeah, it gets done with what it's doing I don't care if I'm in the middle I have to print four more pieces for something it will go on because I have to get one of them Out there so I can see it and share it with the world like I just and that was one of those things. It's just so cool Awesome. All right, tom any final thoughts No, I like terrain. I like painting terrain. It's my happy spot. It is it's very it is your relaxing spot That's what you go to when you need to we need to calm down. So maybe we should all paint some terrain that week I do this week. I guess that's the answer I can bring with me as much as you want me to do tomorrow. Uh, no, definitely not We're gonna be playing more hammer buddy. That's what we're gonna be doing. Uh, so With that, I will say thank you very much, anthony and absolute pleasure to have you on as always, brother Thank you. I enjoyed it. Great. Thank you For all of you out there watching. Thank you so much Uh, do please hit the like so other people can find the video as always look It's as easy as moving your mouse from like here to here like look at that just there to there It's that far you can click it right there. So click that like and uh, I really appreciate that We really appreciate that because it helps more people find the channel find the video As I said at the top of the show, I know it's been a tough week. So I everybody out there stay safe Stay healthy and uh, and stay kind. So with that, I will say we'll see you all next wednesday. Bye. Bye