 Sir Shane Roberts, who will be my special guest this evening. Go ahead, take a seat. Okay. All right. My pants are a little tight. All right. So, Sir Shane, tell us a little bit about your growing up and the circumstances of your family. I come from a very large family. I'm one of 14 kids. I am directly in the middle. There were 13 of us left. I did have a brother who passed away in 1982 from Folblom AIDS before anybody knew what AIDS was. He was one of the unfortunate beginners. So, I grew up in Detroit, Michigan. I was born in California, grew up in Detroit. It's been eight years in Houston, Texas. I moved back to Detroit. I've been in the Detroit metro area ever since, unless I'm in Indiana. That's about it in a nutshell. You mentioned your brother passing very early on in the AIDS crisis. How was your family able to cope with that when at that time there was very little infrastructure available? It was extremely rough. Even so much as where to have him buried and what funeral home to put him at, because at that time nobody wanted to have anything to do with it. He was actually not allowed to have the funeral in Catholic Church to find a funeral home to present his body and have the service there. It was quite a training experience at the time. This is right at the beginning of the crisis. It was tough. What sorts of complications did your family experience from that? Prejudices? They were both precutists. Like the plague. To try and explain to people that it's not contagious through bodily contact, it's not contagious if somebody breathes on you. At the time, obviously, nobody knew what was always involved with it. But it was the bubonic plague of the 80s. It really was. People didn't... Do you even more because of that situation that judge the family and a lot of discrimination, a lot? How did you see that situation evolve over the years? Oh, it's gotten so much better. So much better. I am, Ms. Kendra and I have talked about this many times at different events and I have publicly spoken about it at events in Detroit in today's community has always had HIV as part of their life, they were born into it. And when you experience full blown AIDS from the onset and you don't know it, it's just very same thing of I grew up with a rotary dialed telephone who would think that you'd have a cell phone that you'd be able to communicate, you know, so many years later, it's that you were born into it. So I wasn't born into it, but I experienced the first hand as did my family and so many others of my leather family. I mean, it's tough. You don't know the fights that have gone to understand it, to remedy it, to accept it. Acceptance has been the hardest thing I think over the past four years, I really do. You were married and you have a daughter. Tell us a bit about that. I was married when I was 18 years old. My daughter is now 40 something. I don't wanna get too much my age way, but I was very young when I started. I do have two grandchildren as a matter of fact. Looking back at it, it was an experience. It was something that I don't regret doing because it made me who I am today to have that experience. I ran into, I think I talked to you about this, about my ex-wife and I were divorced when my daughter was five and when my daughter was 30, I happened to be in a restaurant in Merrill Oak, Michigan. I worked for a retail company and we were doing a construction remodel project in the store. So on the last day of the project, I took the temporary crew and I said, you guys work the rest of the week, wherever you wanna go, we're gonna go out to dinner on me. They waited, so we made arrangements, we're sitting, we walk into the restaurant and we're sitting at a table. Three guys cross the table from me, the waitress comes over and she stands there and she takes their order. My daughter's name is Cheryl Lynn. That's not a very common name. When the guy's sitting across the table and looks at her and says, well, Cheryl Lynn, I'll have those and he starts flirting with her. And I took one look over and she's standing right here and I took one look over. I hadn't seen my daughter in 25 years. And I took one look at her and I said, Cheryl Lynn Turner. And she looked at me and she goes, I know exactly who you are. That's probably the most bizarre moment I've ever had in my life because I then turned around and said, you lay one finger on her and you're dead. I'm just dead. I'm just dead. So it just goes to show how small the world really is because I really didn't think, we had not had any contacts since then. One time we did have one brief encounter of contact because she was in trouble and here's daddy, I'm gonna take care of her. But I do miss the opportunity to have watched her grow up, go through school, make a life for herself. You know, I was there, I was not there for my granddaughter's birthday, the one of them. But it's okay. She knows how to get a hold of me and if the need be, the need will be. I find that a number of people in our community have children or have been married. What are your thoughts on that and how that impacts people within the LGBTQ community? I think in today's society as much more accepted, I was very fortunate. My ex-wife and I did not separate on bad terms. She knew at the time that I was bisexual as how I would consider myself to be at the time if I was gonna put a label on myself. It was not the reason the marriage didn't work. The marriage didn't work for a number of reasons, financial, age difference. She's 11 years old or nine. Society in general. I do have to believe that we were married in 1979 and divorced in 1982. So it was right around the time that my brother had passed away. 14 kids, everybody's kind of close at the time because of the age ranges were pretty tight. I think that took maybe a toll on the marriage and her not understanding of what was going through with the family as well. But I think that I find myself fortunate that she was accepting of the fact that I was free enough and knew who I was to be able to express my sexual freedom and play when necessary. And that's the way I would put it. I think that in today's world, it's much more accepted because the walls have been broken down, the communication levels are there and there's not tolerance for dislike. I mean, you know, I really do think that the acceptance is there much more today than what it was. How did you come out into the Leather King community? As early as 1979, when I was a senior in high school, there was a brown detourie. I think you and I talked about this as well. It eventually turned into the detourie vehicle. It was called the interchange and the underground communication of being young and wild at 18 years old. It's like, oh, great shiny thing. Let me try this out. That's pretty much my first exposure was very underground. It was not, even in the late 70s and early 80s in Detroit, there was not a Leather scene. It was very much what we would say today, Techno Club and very much the drag scene in Detroit. There were two Leather bars that I distinctly recall. One would be the R&R, the original, and the second one would be the interchange. So late at night, unbeknownst to friends, colleagues, people I hung out with, I would go to the back room of the Leather bars after hours and party heard it. I'm terrified to ask what you did. Well, I will tell you this, I will tell you this. The original R&R was on Michigan Avenue and the owner of the R&R just passed away a year ago and her name was Ruby. And Ruby was the first gay bar to put a pool table in her bar. And that pool table, till the day they closed their doors a couple of years ago, still stood at the newer R&R. And if that pool table could talk. I'm kind of glad it's not available because I might have to buy it. Should it go to the Leather archives, Dan? It could. So tell us a little bit more about the gay life that you knew in the early days in Detroit. What other places did you visit or did you visit other cities that also had? I would say that once I felt really comfortable with who I was and where I wanted to go, I would say that New York and Chicago were both of my favorite hearts. The mine shaft in New York. Chicago is probably a little bit closer to home where I probably would feel a little bit more comfortable. New York at the time, I would say was probably too big of a world for me, if that makes sense. It was just too hustle and bustle and too, I'm not sure what word I want to describe it with but way too busy, way too busy. I didn't get to LA until I was later on in years. Chicago and New York, outside of Detroit were probably the two places that I would venture the most. Tell us a bit about your time with the mine shaft. You mentioned that a moment ago. I'd rather not. It was more of an easy one. I hope this isn't making too much noise, but is there anywhere that stands out other than the mine shaft? How about in Chicago where there are places that you've frequented that aren't there anymore? Not that I can easily remember. I didn't get there a lot when I was younger. I haven't actually been there since 2005. So it's been a few years since I've been there but I can't really think that there was any place that I would make my home visit whenever I would go. I really can't think about that. What were your motivations toward the leather community? What drew you there? The mistake behind it, the brotherhood behind it, the comradeship and the true self-awareness that was brought to me, that it's okay to be different. It's okay to be kinky. It's okay to relate to one another on a specific level. And I don't even address that in a sexual nature. I mean, I was taught very early on and those of you that know me well enough know that hurt is HIRT and it's honor, integrity, respect, and truth and that's a code that I have instilled in my life for many, many, many years and I try to teach it. They're important traits to have and I'm fortunate that I was able to learn those in my early days of leather from some upstanding people who unfortunately are no longer with us but they in turn left their own legacy. Are there significant differences between the leather community you knew at that time versus what we know now? I do believe there is. I think the core values have gotten a little bit lost really years were reminded through events such as GLLA that those values are there and they are to be talked about and not to be forgotten. I have a favorite saying that is don't ever forget where your roots are because where your roots are is where you're gonna end up and where you come from and what you can relate to others and teach and share the experiences with are good things. You also mentioned LIFE, what is that? LIFE is an organization and I still say is because technically they are still an organization. LIFE stands for Leather Institute for Education in Detroit and it was an organization that was founded in 2003 by Lovardo of California, Diamond Jen Brown of Detroit and Dale Ross of Detroit and I was invited that was my title year for Mr. Leather, Michigan. I was invited to attend the initial meeting of that and it was just a few of us sitting around the table and a bar talking about we need to get a group and an organization together and through my title year I didn't have a lot of involvement with it and then Lovardo moved from Detroit to California, Dale Ross who still resides in Detroit area and so does Diamond Jen Brown and over the years it would be a weekly meeting and you know we would have a bar night at Diamond Jen and it was just a place to congregate and to gather and then it became the true educational forum and then after Lovardo moved from Detroit to LA Diamond Jen was thinking about selling Diamond Jen so a couple of us that had been at the meetings regularly and became more and more involved approached Jim and said we would like to take over life to Detroit because he was gonna step back from it. So a group of six of us got together and we actually incorporated it and we took it to places where Jim and Dale never thought it would go. We were nominated for Pathion of Leather Community, small leather events, we've had some fantastic speakers at some events, we also founded Dark Weekend which did for Detroit area Rough and Kink Best Weekend that had a run of six years, Life Detroit Anniversary had a run of 12 years I think and through life unfortunately, you know people wane off and they get other interesting things and unfortunately I will say that the Leather scene in Detroit has pretty much gone to the side of where major cities now do in the Leather lifestyle. It's not as existent as what we would like it to be. I myself was the board president of Life Detroit for two terms, the first term I did step down. Because there was an opportunity presented to Life Detroit from the Leather Leadership Conference and I, Mr. Pandora and I can not think of his name now from Pontiac headed up the board for the Leather Leadership Conference and we brought it to Detroit and it was the first ever international conference because we involved Canada though which is right across the river. So they had tried to do that and they had tried for many years to do an international event and we offered that opportunity. While with that, Life Detroit was going to be the beneficiary of some of the funds that were raised from that conference and I did not want any hindrance by being the president of the board with that so I stepped out from the board so that I could get full concentration because it is a three year process of Leather Leadership Conference. You have to get awarded it, you have to apply for it then you get to be reviewed by the board, you have to go to the event and be interviewed into a long left lead process and when we were awarded it I made the decision right then and there. I'm gonna step down because I didn't want the possibility of somebody saying wow, there's nepotism. So we had the conference, it was very successful. I let the pro tem, president continues term and I'm pretty back me to come back so I did. Unfortunately, technically, I guess I'm still the president. We have not had a meeting of Life Detroit as an organization in probably three or four years and I'm not proud to say that but when the audience isn't there, who do you reach out to? Let's take a step back. You mentioned a moment ago, Dark Weekend. Please fill us in a little bit about that. What was that? About what? Dark Weekend? Dark Weekend, Detroit area rough came first. Very much a new concept for Detroit had not been done before. We had vendors, classrooms, educational speakers. It was always held on Super Bowl Weekend. So it was always the first week in February and then the first three were very successful and even though we ran it into Sunday, we were done by noon so everybody could go to the Super Bowl parties. But it was great because we were fortunate to have a banquet hall that supported another group in Detroit and the leather community for their annual runs. So we propositioned them and it said, come on. And Elmada Hall was our venue for quite a few years, completely closed down for us. Let us do what we wanted, when we wanted, no restrictions. Lou, who was one of the, we awarded Lou the last year of our event there because they sold the hall. And so we awarded her with a honorary piece of leather and I thought the woman was gonna fall over. But in mainstream society, to see a person that accepting of just something that would just be the total opposite of who she is was pretty unbelievable. She welcomed us with open arms. We then moved the venue to a Knights of Columbus hall in Lincoln Park, Michigan, who is operated by the former chief of police of Lincoln Park. And we could do just about anything we wanted there as well. The only thing that he put his foot down was that there would be no sexual acts on his premises whatsoever. Yes, sir. No problem. So we had some good times with our Detroit because it was a new event and everybody likes new. And it was interesting because we had some really good keynote speakers. So, you know, we actually had shark rental one. We had Jack Rinova. I can't even begin to tell you some of that. The star-studded names, but these are people that are real in the community. So it was important. It really was important. Are you currently involved in any organizations close? I currently am not. Great Lakes Leather Alliance is my baby and have been for a few years. What was, tell us about Leather Oste. Leather Oste was founded by my board, you know, and myself. And this came about, there is one leather store in the city of Detroit and it's called Noir Leather. And Keith has been the owner of Noir Leather for easily 45 years. It's the only place where you really could go to buy leather and very expensive. And those that were interested in buying new to go to Noir Leather. Bojano and I came up with an idea of, you know what, why don't we open a leather and fetish store? So we did this in a flea market. And our weekends were spent. We first started Leather Oste with a curb table, about six pair of jeans, five on ones, a couple pair of boots, some leather vests and these were all used items. So our trademark on Leather Oste was Leather Oste, not so sloppy seconds. And anybody that knows my boy knows he is very meticulous and looks for every flaw that could be on anything. So we spent many days going through thrift stores as state sales, looking at line for lot closeouts. And we took a 12 by 12 space and within five years we're up to two, within the first five years we were up to three spaces of 12 by 12. And within six years we were up to nine spaces at 12 by 12. We sold used item for five dollar pair. We sold military uniforms, both vintage and new. We signed a contract with the military supplier. Boots, fetish gear, fetish implements, restraints. You name it, we sold it. If we didn't have it, we knew where to get it. The, and we didn't sell it for a huge market price. And that's what made us unique was we had many people that would come visit us at the store because they were interested in, they saw something that somebody else had. Hey, where'd you get that? It got that at Leatherosity. And they would come in and they would refer friends and advertise, their best form of advertising is word of mouth. And before you know it, we had some interesting people come in through our doors. There was an article done for a local gay magazine that was done on Leatherosity and they just heard about us through word of mouth and they come out and checked it out. The woman has a booth right behind where we were located where we did our final expansion to as an adult novelty store. So we became real good friends. We would refer customers to each other. It was a great experience because people, we would give people the cost or the price that they were gonna pay for something. Let's face it, you know, bundling is good. Okay, you're gonna buy two or three pieces. We're gonna give you a better price. And when they started to realize that this was a no hold barred, no judgment pass zone, we got some good, we got some good repeat customers. So it was good. Boydino has since retired. My life partner passed away almost two years ago. I have been promoted in my job. So I work seven days a week. And it's, you know, we had to make a decision what are we gonna do? All right, you know, so the best interest is that we closed on July 1st, unfortunately, but we have some great memories. And if anybody's interested in buying some, sir plus more today is like, you know. I'm sure there's plenty of this here. Appreciate that, absolutely. So I hope this isn't making too much noise. What are your thoughts on mentoring in the community? It's a very big topic for us. There can never be too many. Some of that is through design and some of that is through circumstance. Circumstance would be some of the, almost all of my mentors are no longer here. But I do have to say that you're never, it's never too late to be mentored. There are people that I feel that we run across in our daily journey of life and they end up to be your mentor, whether it's for the minute, whether it's for the rest of your life together, whether it is just in passing. Mentoring and learning go hand in hand. I can't begin today. I'm a child learned from so many people in this very room, that's true. Is there anything you wish you had learned earlier on? I want to know, because what I know now could have killed him. I hope I did. If you could go back in your leather journey, is there anything you would change that you would do differently? No. I firmly believe that things happen for a reason at the time they happen. They happen for a reason. There's a time for everything to happen. I do not, I don't ever look back and say would I have done something different because it was meant to be at the time. A lot of my inner strength has come from not necessarily the widest choices at the time, but that's how you learn from things that you might have been able to do differently but you don't know until you do it. You don't know. There's not an instruction manual to get through life, so I wouldn't read it anyways. I'm sure we have title holders here and people who will be participating in the contests this weekend. What advice have you for them? Be who you are. Be true to who you are. Have respect for yourself. Have respect for one another. Have respect for the lifestyle. Have a true understanding of what you were getting yourself into. It's not, I can tell you from first-hand experience and I know things have changed over the years. It's been a few years since I was title holder in the public venue as a title holder and my partner the first year became a sash widow and it's true. But he also knew my commitment for myself and for eventually would become the commitment I had for the community. It afforded me a voice that was a little bit stronger by having the title behind my name. Be sure this is what you want to do. This title will follow you forever. Forever. Am I right these kinds of things? But it's all good. What's the biggest misconception about you? You know, I really didn't have an answer for that when you and I talked briefly a few months ago. So I did a survey at work. I had some quizzical answers. The biggest misconception about me is until you know me I come across as disinterested. I come across as angry. I come across as stuck out. I come across as don't bother him. Those of you that do know me know that was the furthest thing from the truth. I've been told those things to my face. What the real truth behind that is, I'm very intent. I'm extremely intent. I may seem disinterested. I may seem aloof. I may seem stuck out. I'm just very intent. I am surveying the situation. I am thinking 24-7. And there's a difference. I wouldn't change it either. It makes people keep guessing.