 Okay, so the first thing I'm going to do is call, well actually who all do we have here? Do we have a quorum? One, two, three, we only have a quorum. That much is true. I'll give people another minute or so to get here. Is Jay missing? Jay and Donna. I saw Donna earlier. I saw her name up there anyway. Briefly. There's Jay. All right. All right, well, in that case, I'm going to call this meeting to order. The first thing is to review and approve the agenda. I don't have any changes to propose. Does anyone else have any changes to propose? Yes, Bill. We just have some confusion about the conservation commission appointments. We're unsure whether it's the conservation commission or the conservation fund board. So we'd like to suggest there's a conservation fund. We've talked to the chair of the conservation commission and some confusion. So we just like to request that we delay that until the next meetings. We get that straightened out. That makes sense to me. Sounds good. Okay. So we have a couple of questions. Any others? Yes, Lauren. I just had a couple of questions about the wastewater treatment facility template contract that's on the consent agenda. So could we either pull it off or if I have a chance to just get a little clarification. Yeah. And we'll deal with that when we get to the consent agenda. Okay. Okay. All right. Any other. Any other questions? Okay. So without objection, we'll consider the agenda approved. So on to general business and appearances. This is an opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on any topic that is otherwise not on our agenda. And if you have anything you'd like to say to the, to the council, the public. You can say your name and. Your name. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Fabulous. As anyone interested in addressing the council. If you would like, you can unmute yourself and. Speak up. Or you can raise a hand. And Cameron, are you seeing anyone? Okay. Okay. So just want to make sure giving folks enough opportunity to jump in if they would like to, to address the agenda. And then we'll go into the general business, which is perfectly fine. So we're going to move on to a series of appointments. So we're going to postpone. The conservation commission appointment, but we do have appointments to be made to the public art commission, the community fund board. The complete streets committee. And. If. If you would like to, if you would like to, if you would like to speak to yourself and tell us about. The interests that you have in. Serving on this board. So we're looking for Jodi Brown. Chris Kaufman or America modem. Any of those folks with us. You know, we've got a number of. People calling in. So I just wanted to. If you're calling in a phone, it's star six to unmute. All right. So. In that case. Do we have a motion? Jack, go ahead. Pursuant to one BSA section three 13 a three. I move that we go into executive session to. Consider the appointment of a public official. Second. Okay. Motion and a second. Any further discussion. Okay. Yeah. Madam mayor, did you want to. Each of these separately or all of them together? Like to. My hope would be that we would consist. Talk about them all together and. Jack and Dan, is that your understanding? If not, that's okay. Yes. Okay. That clarification. All right. So. Thank you. Thank you. Was that a hand, Kevin? You seem to be muted. Okay. There we go. Yeah, I think Jody Brown. There was some confusion about getting her onto the agenda from last week. So I think Jody had intended to come. But I think there was some confusion. She was on tonight for the last, last week. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Any other comments? Okay. So. We've had a motion and a second all in favor. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed. Okay. So we are going to go into executive session. This. Meeting will remain open. We're going to disappear here for a little while. And hopefully we'll be back soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So moved. Are you second? That was a second. That was a second. Okay. Great. All right. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed. Okay. So we're back in regular recession. I'll make a motion that we appoint Jody Brown to the public. Art commission. Christopher Kaufman to the community fund board. And then we'll move on to the meeting. So we have a motion and a second. All in favor. Please say aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed. All right. Thank you to all those who stepped up. We're so grateful for your work. And see. All right. So we are. Ready to move on to the consent agenda. And Lauren, do you want to pull an item? Yeah. Can we please pull off the item B, the waste holler agreement for the phase one contract of the. Yeah. Wases. Just, just. We do have people here to. Sorry. Just. Thank. And, and just to be clear, do you want to vote on that separately? Or did you just have questions about it? I have questions that it probably would be fine. I just. Yeah, that's all right. Well, let's, well, let's deal with that. Separately. So is there a, that is item. B. Of the consent agenda. So. Is there a motion to. Oh, Donna, go ahead. I'm sorry. I just have one small edit, but I thought it was important enough to talk about it in public. That the new route. My ride GMT is actually one word. And so in the November 18th minutes, they come across as two. It's capital M Y capital R. I D E one word. So it's like a brand. It'd be helpful. Helpful. All of us try to do that. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, especially since that's going to be a part of the website. Yeah. The name of the app. Okay. Is there a motion to Dan, go ahead. I was just going to make a motion to accept the consent. Consent agenda. Minus. Item B. The waste holler contract. Second. And with. There's motion and second and, and, uh, Presumably that incorporates Don is at it. Yes. Yes. Okay. Great. Uh, all right. Any further discussion? Okay. Uh, all in favor of please say aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed. Um, okay. So I think, um, There would be a question around, um, whether or not to, Uh, Take up item B now. And I guess my question is Lauren. Do you have a lot. Lots of questions or, um, So you, yeah, what's your estimate there? Well, Trying to get some clarity on. Particularly how this relates to the PFAS discussion we had a couple of months ago. So I don't think that will take long, But I guess it depends on the answers, maybe. Well, um, Uh, because we have other members of the public waiting for now, let's, uh, Put that. Um, I'd actually like to put that after, uh, The Stevie HHH, uh, presentation. Um, which I realized puts our staff on a little bit longer, but, um, Yeah, that's, that's how we're going to roll right now. Um, okay. So, um, John, um, you have an item on, uh, town meeting day. Legislative changes. Go ahead. Well, sorry. I'm so dark. Uh, just wanted to give you all an update and maybe ask for something. And so dark. I don't mean to be so creepy looking there. Um, so there was a meeting, uh, In the last week that me and a couple other clerks were in with, uh, house and Senate, uh, government operations committee. Uh, Jim condos and some of his staff were there. There's a representative representative from the governor's office. And everybody was talking about. You know, what are we going to do? Given that the COVID situation is still going to be, you know, the COVID situation, uh, on town meeting day for town meeting day elections. So, uh, the idea was to put together a non controversial bill that could basically fly through the committees and be on the governor's desk by the end of the first weekend session, which would be a land speed record, but I think they're, I think they're going to do it. Um, Now there's a couple of things that are going to be in there. I just want to real quick tell you all what's in there and what I think. And then I guess ask for permission to be empowered to, uh, make changes on the fly. Should they become necessary? Um, the big things are that, uh, towns are going to be empowered if they so choose to do another all male in election. Um, now what that really means is that we, we don't have a choice because all it's going to take is a few towns to do it. And the expectation will be on all towns to do it. So, um, you know, Good thing, bad thing. There's, there's, there's arguments to be made either way. Um, it's fine with me, but it does mean we're going to need to do it. Um, Then the other thing was an option, uh, to actually change the town meeting election day. For this is in particular, because the, the problem with this is that we don't have a choice because all it's going to take is a few towns to do it. Um, and then the other thing is that we don't have a choice. For this is in particular because of the problem with their turnaround, especially if you're talking on all male in election. I can't keep playing to say all male. That's just all wrong. Um, would be to try to spread out that filing deadline because right now the filing deadlines, particularly for candidates. Would allow if we get the ballots printed, get them there, mail them out. You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, voters to turn those around and get them counted and the crunch for, uh, town offices to actually do that and to count them and to get them in would be extremely high, especially given the fact that all male in elections boost turn out to the highest comment to nominator. Um, so instead of general election here, we're going to be looking at the mayor's roll level. So we're all probably looking at record turnouts, uh, for town meeting day for all of all of the towns that do, uh, do the, the mail in. So. Um, what they're going to do is empower towns to make that decision. Now, obviously it was such a short timeframe. Any kind of decisions like that are going to have to be made on the fly and bringing together a meeting just might not be enough. So I'm hoping that you all could empower me to work with whatever tools are given to me, uh, by the state to make this happen. Having said that, honestly, um, it terrifies me a bit, but given that it's, it's likely it wasn't promised, but it was largely assured that local municipalities are going to have some money to cover this stuff from the governor. But apparently there is some discretionary money for that. Um, my inclination is just to bite the bullet, take a deep breath and charge forward with the current scenario with the current filing deadlines. Just try to get everything out there as fast as we possibly can. I've already talked to a mail house about this. And then just to try to get them in by the standard town meeting day. Obviously if we were to move it, there are a lot of financial considerations. There are also considerations that are being taken into consideration by the legislature. And it will supposedly include, um, uh, allowances for towns to still have councils and select boards if they move that meeting, because right now in the words of under the, uh, terminology, the phrasing of our charter, uh, only the mayor has a serves two years or until there's a new mayor in there. All the counselors have served two years. So they're, they're, they're going to craft it carefully so that, you know, were we to move that day, the council wouldn't evaporate except for the mayor, if they're all by herself. Um, so that's being taken into consideration. The hopefully the change of the filing deadlines is also being managed in there into consideration because right now those follow by a certain designated number of the election. So you move the election over here. You haven't saved yourself any time because they just follow you. So that's being taken into consideration too. But again, my inclination is just to stick with what we got. And just, um, just dive in and pull that bandaid right off. So if you all have any questions. Uh, yeah, Donna and then Connor and then Dan. Okay. I'm sorry if you already said this, but I'm unclear of what is decided by the secretary of state and what we as a council actually have to make a decision on. I know as far as, um, petition for articles about funding that's under our preview. But is there anything else that we really give you permission to do? Well, this will all come from the legislature. Um, so right now they're also going to allow, you know, candidates will not have to get signatures for their petitions. For a number of reasons, um, ballot petitions, um, will still have to get the signature requirement. So that probably means you're going to have a lot of folks, I mean, across the state, uh, councils and select boards are going to have a lot of folks, uh, approaching them directly, asking to have those things put on the ballot because, um, it's going to be prohibitively difficult for them to get stuff on the ballot by petition. You alluded to asking the council to give you permission to do something. Yeah, that was, that was the next thing. Um, what, um, I'm hoping the council will do is, you know, any changes that can be made to make them, if they make sense to be made, we would basically have to call a separate meeting and get together and vote on them. So what I'm hoping is the council would consider empowering me to make those decisions. Without having to have, you know, if, for example, we, there's another option in there that I don't know about, that's going to show up, or we decide for some reason, we can't have an all male in election, or we decide we do need to change the town meeting day election date. Those are all decisions that the legislature is going to give us the freedom to enact, but they could only be enacted as I understand it by a vote of the legislative council. So if there's, you know, we're talking matters of weeks. So if there's a decision that needs to be made to change a deadline to change an approach that has to be made within a week and we can't get together for a week, week and a half. Well, I'm just saying is that that's problematic and it would be helpful if you all are agreeable, if you would consider passing a motion to empower me to make those decisions. Obviously I can at least informally consult with everyone. Thank you. Connor, go ahead. John, is there any talk about making the signature requirements, maybe electronic for the petitioning ballot items on? There is talk and it's, um, it's too problematic for a number of reasons. Um, there's, there's electronic and there's electronic. What format, what vendor does email count? Um, what's tested and what isn't. Um, so that is unlikely to be on there. What is, uh, you might not know the number off of your head. Uh, how many signatures would folks need to get a budget ballot item on? Budget ballot. About 600. Uh, go ahead, Dan. Sure. Um, going back to, I think Donna's question or at least your answer to it, John. Um, I mean, would we have the authority to delegate. To you. Some of these decisions. Um, you know, obviously some of the deadlines. I don't know if we could necessarily vote in the abstract about it. Um, What precisely would you be looking for for authority from us? Um, Just authority to enact. Um, Or to act on any statutory flexibility. On the election process. Uh, granted by the legislature. Um, you know, for the town meeting day elections. Um, as, as. As a, as a COVID matter. Um, should they be deemed necessary? Right. But I mean, you as a city clerk have authority over the election. So if it's flexibility. For, you know, how the election is run or conducted. Um, you would obviously have that already. And I, I apologize. I don't mean to be pedantic about this. And, but I'm just wondering. Just because it strikes me that if it's something like changing a deadline. Or something where the legislature gives the legislative body of the council. The power to change. A requirement. Um, that would otherwise be there. And it gives it specifically to us as opposed to you. Um, I mean, is that something where you would look to sort of act and then we would ratify. Um, Afterwards and sort of with this. Um, Sort of understanding that. You know, we give you sort of free reign to, to make some of those judgment calls. And it's, it's nothing. I mean, I clearly, you know, far more about running elections than just about everyone else on this call. And it's not a matter of not trusting the judgment. I'm just wondering. Uh, Not to make it susceptible to any particular challenge or, um, as far as sort of chain of authority goes. Whether, um, whether that would fly. Well, it depends on the wording. Last I heard the wording was just going to be towns. Um, uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, Uh, And the rest is just, yeah, protection. Uh, I mean, I think somebody who, you know, Had an issue or wanted to make a fuss. If I just made a unilateral decision that was given to the towns. You know, Um, I would think it would be challengeable. Um, you know, maybe not, or maybe we'd just be one of many. That would be challenged. Um, I would say though, Um, If it's something that I would just think that calling a special council meeting. To discuss it and act on it would be problematic. Um, given we're talking about periods of. You know, if it gets passed the last. That actually does get passed out the last week. Uh, or the last day of the first week. In January and probably will be the next week. Um, We're looking at a couple of weeks after that before petitions are going to be due. Um, another week after that before candidates are in. Um, you know, there's just not much time to work with, but, you know, whatever. Whatever it works for you all. As I say, my inclination is just to take a deep breath, bike the bullet and try to run with it as we can. Um, and I think that I probably would need the, or would appreciate the authority or the blessing. To, uh, do an all male in election because that would be a difference. And then that would be something I would just be making a call on my own. Basically anything that I'm making a call on my own. That's different than what's done every single year. I would like. The authority to do that because I don't necessarily feel that I have it. But I think there, those are, I mean, there's a number of interesting things to sort of. I think take one at a time. It seems like, you know, as far as like deciding to do a male in election, I think that's a different question than. And obviously if we have an understanding of what this bill contains as far as, you know, what, what are the potential issues? I'm certainly comfortable with like a mixture of. You know, um, both. Um, I think that there may be something where we do need a special meeting if there are certain things like, I could see the all male in election. You know, we don't have the money for it right now on the budget. Um, to pay for it as a city. But if, if part of it is that the state will provide. 50 or 75 or 85% of the cost and, and the remainder can be found, you know, that may be, that may be something where our special meeting is, um, and then some of the issues might just simply be. Ratification, you know, where no matter. Sort of to cover the authority question. Um, if you make a decision. Um, and then we just ratify it. Um, that takes care of that authority issue. Um, and I, I would see that being reasonable, especially in some of these judgment call where, you know, I don't know if I'm convinced that it's. I mean, usually the context of the election is you as the election official have the authority to do it. And the statute says, you know, the city clerk shall oversee the election. And so some of these things I would. If they're not specific as to the city clerk or town clerk, even if it's just to the town or city, I still think you have the authority to do that as the primary election official on some of that administration. Well, if you're feeling that the options are. Let me do it because I have the authority and don't worry about it or, uh, give me the authority to do it. But, uh, in the context of a special meeting and ratification, obviously I prefer to go with the former. You just leave me with the power. I was telling you, I'd be more comfortable with, uh, with authority, but on the other hand, I also don't want to create a process that is going to make it impossible to be nimble on this. And I think all of the towns right now that are talking about this are moving forward sort of borrowing against the idea that the governor's office is going to pay for 100%. So that's, um, that's the hope. And that's what the governor's office, like I said, they didn't promise it, but that was very strongly put out there as, as likely in the governor has, has come out and said that he wants towns to, to do all male in the election. So. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. There's a lot of questions as everyone has said, I'm, I'm looking at the calendar. Um, I think they're coming back on the fifth. Is that right? That sounds right. It's the Tuesday of the first week. Yeah. And, uh, and so conceivably, if, if something is passed and enacted by the eighth, we have a meeting on our calendar on the 13th, the following Wednesday. So that's not a tremendous amount of, uh, of delay. Um, I'm, uh, so it may not be necessary to do what you're doing. I think I, I just, I'm a bit uncomfortable with Dan's suggestion that the city clerk has inherent authority because the way we'll find out if, uh, if Dan's right is, or if we're all right, if we go that way is somebody sues us and because they don't like the outcome of the election and, uh, and a judge and then possibly even the Vermont Supreme court tell us what was the right or the wrong thing to do. And I'd rather not be on the, uh, the wrong side of that judicial process. Um, with. So things like, um, setting the date of the, uh, town meeting and setting the, uh, dates for filing, uh, candidate statements or petitions. Um, those seem to be relatively non-controversial, but I can imagine other things might be, might be more controversial. One of the things that I'd like some, that I'm wondering about as you talk about an all male in election, um, are you really suggesting that the election might be city hall is closed on town meeting day? No, no, no. What we did in the general thing and what's done in Oregon, Washington, Utah, um, Colorado. Okay. So that, that's different. Yeah. Cause I think that calling it an all male election and saying nobody can show up in person and vote is worse than just saying we're going to provide an opportunity for everybody who wants to vote by mail to do so. Yeah. No, that would be unprecedented. Um, in the country. Um, I just mean, so I would say an all male out election. Yep. So, um, I'm, I would be more comfortable with, um, I think unfortunately the option of waiting until we see what passes and then acting at that point. And I realize that doesn't give us a lot of time. Maybe we, we do have some meeting at, at that following meeting in January. Um, and I, so I, I totally, I'm so glad that you are all for the all mail out, uh, uh, option. Uh, you know, it feels like we've learned something about elections. We get better turnout when this happens. We can't unlearn that. And so yeah, we should, we should be doing this. Um, so I'm just glad that, that, uh, that's where you're at as well. Um, and I, and I, I would trust you to, you know, figure this all out. I just, I think as a matter of principle, don't like blank checks. Um, and so I think I'd, I'd rather wait and see because there may be other things that we have to consider that, um, may come up and we might need to have a meeting anyway. Um, even if we did give you this power. So I, I sort of consider this as like, uh, I mean, unless someone wants to make a motion right now, which is that would be fine too. Uh, but otherwise I'd consider this like a fair warning that, you know, we, we might have to have a meeting. Um, in a hurry. Um, to, to make the timing work out. Uh, Lauren, go ahead. I'm just wondering from John. Um, is there, I mean, is it helpful to get a sense of the council tonight or some kind of motion, like move forward, you know, as if like, I assume there's preparation and work you would want to be doing to get ready for it. Like is, is that helpful or is that just like, you'll just presume that and do, do what you're going to do. Um, I guess I just, if we're going to go the route and propose, just make sure we're not hamstringing you from work that should be done in the meantime. The only thing that would be a hamstringing and it actually is important and significant is I don't think I can make a range with a male house and a printer and everything to pull off a mailing, uh, to all of our registered voters because it was the secretary state that did it before. This would have to come out of, of my office. And I think waiting until the 13th before knowing if I can pull the trigger on that would be very possibly prohibitively difficult. And I might be coming back to you then asking us to change the election day. I mean, like I said, just to make it possible, I've already had to start reaching out to printers and mailing houses. So, um, that's my, that's my only concern. If you all just explicitly wanted to give me the option to, you know, do an, you know, a vote by mail election. Maybe that's more, maybe that's just one item. You all be more comfortable with, but that's the only thing that worries me more than, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. If we get it all, I'm still working that out. Um, you have a range. I mean, uh, 636,000, I'm going to guess about, um, 8,000, 7,000, 8,000, something like that. That's not a good guess. I do have some information, but that's, that's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Did you have account as to how many of the mail ballots never showed up? You mean never came back? Yeah, I never came back. We're used. Well, let's see our turnout was, um, was upwards of 80%. So I mean, I could do, um, some quick math. If you want me to pull up that program. What was it about 56? Um, about 513, 1400 that didn't come back. Total. And that includes voting on election day, actually. And that was my other question. Yeah. Thank you. That's helpful. Okay. There were a few other hands that went up. Um, when it's still wanted. Yeah. Dan, go ahead. Sorry. Um, you know, I, I support the idea of mail in. Um, of mailing out the ballots in a similar fashion to what we did for the general election that we just did. Cause I think it does. Encourage, uh, Higher voter turnout and participation, which are good. Good things. Um, I'm just, I am concerned about the same thing the mayor expressed and, and really where my questions were going to, which is. You know, the idea of writing a blank check. Um, I think that's a good question. Um, I think that's a good question. By statute. And I think there are certain things you can. You can do. Um, in the administration of it that don't need our approval, but. Whether or not we. We will, you know, if you're looking to. For authority to sign like a contract with a mailing house. To mail out these, which it sounds like. Kind of what you are. Um, I think that's a, that's really a more of a money question than anything else is whether we would have, you know, because that's the risk we bear is that the state doesn't. Come together for whatever reason. Uh, good, bad, or otherwise and pass this, uh, pass this bill. Um, and give us the authority, you know, give us the money to, to fund this local election. And we find ourselves on the hook for. Um, the, the cost of mailing these ballots out. Um, which actually raises another question. John, is it your understanding that, um, if the legislature doesn't pass something for whatever reason. That you still have the authority, we would still have the authority as a town or city to, um, to mail out ballots. The same manner that the secretary of state did this fall. You know, I don't really know that was something I know that was going on for a year. So I figured that gave me a little time to do a little research. Um, coming up so quickly like this. I don't know. I really don't. I think probably. Um, my gut tells me there was nothing that would. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily stopped us from doing it. It's not like changing the, you know, the, the deadlines or the date or, you know, the rules for being open on election day. It's nothing like that. But honestly, I, I, I don't know. And I think there's some fuzziness about that in general. I think, I think given that the legislature wants to make it explicit, I think that that might be an indication right there that we don't have that authority. Otherwise. Why make it explicit? Right. Right. And whatever is not granted to the towns that is not, it's not given. It's not as if we have liberal interpretation of our powers or inherent powers. Um, that. So. Is there a way to sort of get ourselves into the queue of a mailing system? I mean, we're sizable enough city that. We could make essentially a reservation to do that. Contingent upon this funding. I mean, I've talked to the, I have a, you know, pretty good relationship going back a couple of decades with a local mail house. Um, but, um, I mean, I don't know, especially as such a job like that. They're probably going to have to, you know, really book some time and in person power to make it work. And I don't know if just dropping in with two weeks before the mailing goes out and says. And saying, can you guys do this? If they'll be able to do it, especially since it's going to be an unusual mailing. It's not going to be one, you can just sort of stuff into standard machines. It's got the return envelope. We're not sure how long the, uh, the actual ballot is going to be, whether it's letter size or legal size. I'm hoping for letter size. Um, And so, et cetera. So, uh, you know, I, um, Voting is maybe one of the most important things that we do. And for ballpark $8,000. I, I think it'd be worth just authorizing. You to, uh, take that money from an assigned, uh, general fund, uh, money if, if we needed to. Uh, so, you know, could we, could we just, you know, say, uh, that, uh, you know, we're, we're granting you permissions to, to do, you know, to, uh, to spend that money, given that we have the authority to, to do it. I don't know if we have the authority to do it though. Well, right. But no, that I guess that's what I mean. Like contingent on, um, On that, you know, that it's clear that we do. Would that, would that be used for? You have the authority to authorize the money. You don't necessarily have to take the election stuff. Well, but that's what I would want is the blessing in a, in a formal form of the council to go ahead and do that. Should it be something that we can do. So that, yeah. Yeah. Conor, go ahead. Would it make sense just to like schedule a meeting for the eighth or the ninth of January, like right now. And if it's a ceremonial meeting, that's fine. But I know it's a weekend. None of us are going to the disco attack these days. But I mean, I mean, I'm not sure I could, I could probably jump on and do it in a shorter period in the discussions, even taking place. I think what he's saying is that he needs to start sooner. Then that's, is that correct? Yes. We want to have, if we wait that long for everything, there's a decent chance. I'm going to come back to you all and ask if we just don't just move the date. Um, it'll just depend on the feedback I get. Oh, Lauren. Good. Yeah, I mean I just we're still going to be in the midst of a pandemic like I think giving whatever authority I'm clear from Bill's statement of you know exactly how we word it but you know give our our blessing our encouragement to the city clerk to move ahead with the steps necessary to be prepared to implement all mail out voting should the legislature approve it and allocate associated set aside associated funds or I don't know if that kind of approach I really think we're going to get the money for this too. I mean I really really do sounded yeah but I don't know if you can put this money away. Yes, Donna go ahead. Lauren is that a motion? Yes. Okay and Donna has seconded it. Dan? Sure I mean I guess I want to make sure that the motion is especially fairly careful on how how we word it because I think we're doing two things and one is that we're giving approval to a mail in to mailing out ballots if if we contingent upon clarification or granting of authority to do so and secondly we're we're authorizing the expenditure of up to $8,000 or approximately $8,000 in funds to pursue to to essentially get the lock ourselves into a mailing house contract to make that possible under the existing timelines if if that authority comes out is that right? Is that accurate Lauren? And is that the need John? Yeah I mean I don't know to what extent we're locked I've certainly even with this mail house popped up with with plans that I've been yanked out from under them so I'm not sure what locking in necessarily make a reservation. I've done worse to contractors. All right well that that feels like that works for me anyway and it sounds like that might work further so there's been a motion in seconds. Any further discussion? Any comments from the public? Okay um all in favor please say aye. Aye. Aye. And opposed. Okay right thank you John and looking forward to hearing the news instead of what happens with all that. That's going to be exciting oh my god. Okay uh all right so we have um the next up is uh I think I'm trying to get over to Kevin Casey or um representatives of uh the housing trust fund. Absolutely so tonight um I'm just going to kind of hear. Paige Gertner had her hand up. Paige Gertner. Oh oh yes sorry go ahead Paige. I'll be a page you are muted. Okay I'm sorry um I got to the meeting about 10 minutes late and you'd already appointed people to boards and commissions um and I wondered if I missed appointments to the conservation commission. We tabled that. That was a great we tabled that because of the confusion about which board it was for so after talking to you we want to figure that out if it'll be on the next one. Okay all right oh okay all right it was supposed to be the conservation fund advisory board because what they applied for. Okay great thank you. Okay thank you for that um great okay go ahead uh Kevin. Okay just to give you a little update housing um as you all know it's been a crazy year for housing in the real estate market um and we've seen a really significant increase in the median uh house price um it's float last data that I looked at which was the end of September was um the median house price in Montpelier was 309 thousand um yeah that's the median uh so the average is actually higher yeah um and so that's that's about a 90 thousand dollar increase for uh 80 79 thousand dollar increase um over the last two years so the affordability crisis is is coming into play um you know thankfully the first time home buyers has actually been um fairly well utilized um it's it's hard to gauge it on the fiscal year because of the the home buying cycle so I kind of look at it over you know uh like like an 18 month period and we've moved quite a few um and some of the paybacks have come back uh about six or eight I think it is we'll pull it up um we have four seven uh seven new homeowners in town and you know it's it's encouraging that they were able to get in but again you know it it comes down to a function of supply um and then you know on that front um you know just as an aside we're kind of flipping over to the accessory dwelling unit program um that started out really strong uh we've completed two of the seven that were approved by the community development block grant funding um we've got two in the pipeline that are uh are pre-construction so they'll be under construction shortly um they're in the permitting phase and things like that and then two they're in the pre-development phase um that's an exciting program because it does create affordable housing at arguably the lowest amount of money than any other program and it doesn't tax our infrastructure um so that's encouraging the challenge with the program right now um I was hoping Tyler Moss from Vermont State Housing Authority could come tonight. Tyler um had to be uh once COVID hit he he's taken over the um rental assistance program for Vermont State Housing Authority so uh working with landlords and um and tenants and getting their rent paid um so as you can imagine you know they're moving I forget what don't quote me on this one but as I recall they were they were moving about a million dollars every two weeks in rental assistance um and you know in the area so it's uh so he's been pulled away to some degree so some of the promotion part of it um but we plan on actually you know in the next building season completing all seven of the ADUs that are in the grant requirement um and then you know depending on the financial situation there's going to be a uh a decision on how it's funded going forward and what the city's contribution might be to that but we're not there yet on making that decision uh because we still have to get through the grant requirements for um Vermont Community Development Program but it's an exciting program and and people um have really embraced it uh so that's that's encouraging um and we would like to continue support from the council um moving on to um what was the next one um Tron and Blaine sorry uh first time first time home buyer first time how's oh the housing trust fund um you also got a memo from um Polly and Jen uh um regarding you know funding of the housing trust fund um you know the the goal was by 2025 that we would have 200 000 dollars in reserves for upcoming projects um and that is actually that's actually um uh it's it's likely going to be be needed by 2025 um and I think the concern is that you know by not funding the housing trust fund at all is that it will be you know it'll be forgotten um and so the housing task force request is for 55 000 um which is is it 55 000 I thought it was just 50 50 oh 50 thousand 55 percent less than last year sorry right that's okay um and so that's just an item to consider too uh you know we we are heading into a period where we don't know exactly where funds will be needed we have some projects um some larger housing projects in the works um that that may or may not need uh you know some somehow we we don't know just yet um it's some of the stuff is in pre-development stages so um but there are exciting things happening so um um just be on the lookout for that uh and um you know the other issue that that is coming up too is that will that will be coming down um is uh regarding homelessness um Good Samaritan House has been looking for a new facility and are in the um are in the the you know the kind of site uh selection stages and you know I think that that there may be a request coming to the housing trust fund to help with with that project um wherever it lies you know that one's going to be a little bit different because it won't be located well it not state's not going to be located but it may not be located right in Montpelier um but the service need is certainly um you know uh affects Montpelier and our homeless population so it's something to kind of keep on the radar uh we we will know more in the next few months is that is that works forward um and um let's see so that's a that's about what I have at this point and I'm happy to answer any questions uh you know it's been a it's been an interesting year for housing yeah agreed and I'm not exactly expected no and to be honest with you you know on multiple levels the um the the the the market the sales market was actually really surprising to a lot of people um it was expected to be dead and it and it was um yeah our um inventory our housing inventory right now is 1.8 months and I think it is you you recall of 1.8 and as you recall a healthy housing market is over six months um and you know we've always been under six for the last five years but 1.8 is the lowest it's ever been so wow inventory is going to be a huge issue and hopefully we can change that with some upcoming projects yeah I see a hand from uh Peter Kilman Peter go ahead thanks uh Kevin I I have a question about the adu program I've talked to Tyler uh quite a bit over the last couple years about uh since it started and um I've gathered that one of the obstacles is that um in some cases or in most cases the uh the perspective of builders or homeowners need to spend the money first and then get reimbursed um and one of these is that there are a lot of upfront expenses yeah um uh and some of the upfront expenses are expenses with the town the cost of um uh the various building fees and so forth and then also expenses of having an architect and you know being able to jump over a lot of hoops yeah I was wondering what if anything can the town do to try to for example could you put off uh uh collecting fees until the end of the project or at least collect a fraction of them to help to to facilitate uh people who don't have the means necessarily to to front the um those expenses yeah there's um we've had a number of discussions and at the end of this project we will do a report on on you know where we can um you know this is a pilot program so we're we're working out the kings one of the kind of challenges with this is that the funding source that we use um which is community development block grant funds are federal funds and so it's not an ideal source um for housing because and I think that actually that's one of the issues that I think is is is conflated between um state and local the state and federal versus local our local fees are are pretty standard that's you know um um access fees for sewer sewer and water um and permit fees um and that may be something that we we recommend is that like the pre-development costs uh can be um you know born by the program I think the challenge is that you know if you have if you have the program pay all of the pre-development costs you run into a situation where the homeowner doesn't have skin in the game and if the project doesn't move forward what is your recourse for recovering the funds that you spent for someone to decide they weren't going to do it um and I think that the post program report will look at those issues and then make a recommendation I don't think we're there yet we've only completed two of them we've got to know but that's actually my point you may not have gotten as much action on these as you might have I I know for fact people who said I just can't spend the money up front to do that I think it's a great idea but I can't do it and and and what you might say that the fees are standard they are still too much skin in the game is fine if you've got a lot of skin but if we really want to have a program that's going to allow let's say a senior who's got a big old house and is really you know wants to duplex it uh under under this program or you know something like you know close to a duplex and they just can't afford to put that money up front I I understand where you're coming from Stu is like I also would would argue too is that the that you might have a senior who has the great big house with a tremendous amount of equity and when you're looking at interest rates as low as they are it is basically free money when you take the cost of inflation so it is it is you may have to take borrow money to make money that's just a part of that that's just a part of of being a landlord and there is a part of the two which is that we want to ensure that the landlords are that people who are going to be landlords are prepared for ongoing costs we don't want to run into a situation where we put in ad us where the person is completely underfunded and a furnace breaks and they don't have the ability to fix it and now we've got not only a homeowner but a tenant who are cold in the middle of January that there is a part of this which is this is not a program for everyone this is a program for people who want to do it who understand that there will be it will cost money but that we are by funding this we are funding affordable housing because we're ensuring that those units are affordable and so you know if somebody just wants to be rent a unit at market rate more power to them they can and we would still encourage that but if they're using this these program funds then you know we have to we just have to make it work within those parameters and like I said Peter there some of those critiques may be addressed in the pro post program report this is still a pilot so these things are being worked out as we go I certainly hope they'll be addressed in the post uh program uh report but I also think that the program frankly up to this point I think seven possible is not a great record you really only have two that are are are are really so put it into I think with a little bit more coaching and put it into so so um I'm going to interrupt you both um and say um so usually we don't we don't do like back and forth so the idea would be if you um you know have suggestions and critiques awesome um and uh and then um you know having a response that that works um Peter if there's other thoughts and ideas you have um uh I I give you uh sort of one opportunity to say like uh if you have any final final thoughts Peter go ahead and then I'm going to let Kevin you go ahead and and then uh then I'm going to give some other folks a chance to speak Kevin or um uh Peter you're you're uh looks like you're you're declining to say anything further is that correct okay um Mr. Coleman can I get you to state uh your address or your district for us for the record uh six mountain view street district three thank you sir thank you okay other thoughts or comments uh from council or the public and Cameron are you saying anyone no man okay well I I'm very grateful for this update I mean it sounds like um there is a huge need for affordability in Montpelier and just so I I'm clear I just want to make sure I have uh the the data that you quoted correct um so the median house value right now is 309 thousand dollars is that is that accurate yeah um the the median sale price uh in uh at the end of September was 309 thousand okay yeah um and that's up 70 000 of the last two years yeah okay and just wanted to add one one thing about housing growth um yep you know when we when we talk about low numbers like you know two or three any in a year um it's also putting into perspective is that you know when we look at projects like um the french block that took you know 10 years for 18 units yeah Taylor street took a fair amount of time for 30 units so when you average it out when you're doing three units a year um for one program that doesn't include market rate or anything else is it you're making progress um it's not it's not huge but it's incremental and that that's where we're going to get that's how we're going to get the housing stock we we need is incrementally with the big projects thank you thank you um I'll just uh uh save for myself you know in regard in regards to the amount of money that the housing uh task force um actually to be fair I think we should probably have the conversation about the the money for the housing task force we should have that together in the budget conversation um I think that's probably where that belongs like having that conversation together with um with all the other um elements that are at play um but uh thank you for that update sure any other questions comments okay all right well thank you very much uh Kevin and I think we're um so we're we're going to be talking about that funding uh in a little bit here uh but moving on uh to the social and economic justice advisory committee uh I know I um saw a couple representatives from that group here um wonderful um Shayna and Jeremy um you're both on the the committee if I'm not mistaken and I know I think I saw Michael Sherman as well so I'll I'll turn it over to you tell us about this yeah thank you so much for having us I'll just start off by just sharing reminding the the council and and attendance about the social and economic justice advisory committee um before handing it over to Jeremy to share more about our tool um so my name's Shana Casper I live on Kent street um and I'm the chair of Montpellier social and economic justice advisory committee which was formed a few years ago by the city council recognizing the historical and ongoing systems and structures of racism sexism heterosexism classism ableism and other forms of injustice and oppression and so we were formed to assist the council in addressing and reshaping these systems and policies and practices that perpetuate these barriers to social economic and racial justice in our community and so well so the social and economic justice advisory committee see fact does not have any organizational opinions about the proposed fundings and funding cuts to community service related groups um we have developed this tool um that I believe was sent to you guys two weeks ago um to address equity issues during these really difficult deliberations um so I'll hand it over to Jeremy to walk through the tool great thanks Shana um and good evening everyone happy to be here um so what I want to do just very briefly is to kind of give you an overview of the tool um as well some recommendations of how we imagine it could be used by you um and also end with an example that another committee member and I ran through um just by way of showing you how it could work um in your deliberations I think the you know Shana spoke well about the role of C. Jack as a committee and I think it came to our attention a few weeks ago now that there was a deficit in the budget coming into fiscal year 2022 um and I think we we thought there was perhaps a role for us to play in terms of um you know addressing that deficit through the lens of equity that is the charge of of the committee um so as we were thinking about what we might contribute um I think you know one of the principles we began to discuss is how can we make more tangible more readily accessible um this principle of building equity into the budget process um as a way to kind of bring forth the values that the city council has already kind of embraced um and established in their strategic goals um so I believe you all have seen our letter and the tool that we presented it's very straightforward it's very simple um and just to remind you all um it's basically built upon three strategic questions um and I wish I could say that we drafted those questions out of thin air but we did a lot of research and someone else said formulate those questions and they seemed to really write on and so we borrowed them from some other materials that we had researched I saw someone raise their hand did you have a quick question yes yes thank you I was thinking that the members of the council have seen this but there are probably people watching the meeting who have not and so if the speaker could be allowed to share his screen so everyone can see it that might be helpful I do have it up I could do that you should have the ability to go ahead and do that Jeremy okay here I go can everyone see this I'm seeing I think so okay um yes so um it's basically it's a one sheet two sides of a single sheet of paper um and again those those strategic questions that we've kind of focused this tool around I'll just read them here if you can't quite see them first question what are the social economic and racial justice impacts of this budget decision on a marginalized population in our community the second question who will benefit from or be burdened by this particular budget decision and the third question what strategies are there to mitigate any unintended consequences of this budget decision and if no strategies exist how will you create them um and so we understand that this comes to you kind of late in the game I think we imagine a longer term game scenario here in which perhaps this kind of an equity assessment is filtered down to you know city staff in their various departments and budgets are built with these principles in mind from the ground up however where we are now is you have to make some difficult decisions around the budget um and we wanted to offer this as the way to um you know if I use kind of as you have these questions um and make them um kind of more transparent um so some recommendations for how you might use this tool um you know it's there's an attached worksheet here that I'll show you um and this worksheet is a way to break down any significant budget topic or item that's up for discussion um and to first hear on the left hand side is to specify what stakeholder groups might be impacted by this particular budget decision um and again we're focused here on you know marginalized and underrepresented groups in our community um so it could be that you're thinking about um by BIPOC folks in the community or you want to take a look at people with disabilities in particular um we have a list of examples down below um the the next thing you start to ask is those strategic questions going kind of row by row with each of those various stakeholder groups um so looking for the potential positive impacts that this budget decision might have um looking at the potential negative impacts that this budget decision might have um and then thinking about what is the strategy for mitigating any unintended consequences um so um I think if it's all right what I'm going to do now is just kind of run through an example um of how you might use this tool so I'm going to actually have to share a different window here bring that up um and it's kind of somewhat coincidentally and Kevin Casey and I did not speak or know each other before this but the example that we chose um and kind of doing a practice run of the tool was um the housing trust fund line item um which you know is a substantial um cut to a fairly large budget amount um so you know I'll just do this very quickly and this is this is your work to do this isn't our work to do as a committee we just offer it as an example of how you might use the tool so for for the purposes of the the housing trust fund who are some impacted stakeholder groups well certainly people with no or low income uh would be impacted by this particular budget cut um are there any potential positive impacts well you would think probably not um one possible potential positive impact here might be that the property tax rate stays flat or decreases because of a reduced budget amount um and that could perhaps stabilize rent or housing costs um but move over to what are the negative potential negative impacts um well clearly perhaps less availability of affordable housing in Montpelier um some people in that no or low income bracket may be pushed into homelessness um therefore being pushed into unsafe or unhealthy living conditions um and then what are the strategy for mitigating unintended consequences um well perhaps we could fund uh other local organizations that provide services for for folks um in the low and no income bracket um that would kind of offset some of the potential harms of a decrease in affordable housing um so i'm not going to go through every row here but i hope you kind of get the sense of how this worksheet might give you something a little bit more structured in terms of the conversation around looking at potential positive negative impacts and who is who is impacted um so i'm going to stop sharing i'm going to ask if Shayna or Michael have any other thing that i missed i'm seeing now um and i think you know at this point i'd love to hear any questions or feedback that you have on this i just want to start off by saying um thank you so much for sharing this with us i i'm actually particularly glad that you were able to run through an example with this because i i was having sort of a hard time picturing like that last column like so what you know just so having an example to help anchor that for me was really helpful yeah other thoughts or comments Connor go ahead no worries if you guys haven't considered this at all so don't feel any need to answer but the very like big question i asked myself like a lot of the time is okay uh we're in a bit of economic downturn here and you know like one person might say we should raise taxes right because there's a lot of people struggling right now and you know people can afford it we should chip in a little bit to bring them up the other school of thought is okay if we raise taxes it's a very blunt instrument we have to deal with them on pillar right it's not very progressive it's all property tax pretty much um in addition to like some of the use tax but um has the committee given any thought to like okay if you raise taxes uh ashley hill will pull her out as an example we're always saying council i don't want to raise taxes because you know what the landlords are going to have to pay a bit more and that's going to trickle right down to the renters we're going to have to pay more as well and they're the last people who can afford it so i don't know if the committee's sort of sussed over this question a bit uh because it's kind of like limited what we can do on council and we you know we might consider a charter change at some point but uh yeah i'd love your thoughts on it if you had me well it hasn't it hasn't been a discussion item for us in terms of um specific actions or policies that might change the revenue side of the equation um so i appreciate your question i don't think we have much to say on that matter um but it does trigger something for me which is um you know there are some some items in the proposed budget that have been zeroed out which i think are left to council to kind of um debate and determine how maybe to meet those gaps or or to fund but i would also recommend that this tool could be applied to things in the budget that perhaps have level funding or um slightly decrease funding um you know i think the the long-term goal here is a budget that is built with equity in mind throughout its entirety um so i don't know about um i have nothing to say about like how do you increase revenue um but the tool itself could be used to shift priorities in the budget that exists as it's been proposed what she and i looks like you have something to say i think yeah i just wanted to reiterate that we as a committee you know do not have kind of committee uh opinions about what should be um you know increased funding or decreased funding or how to how to raise those funds um as i just wanted to echo say that again um and then also just to to go off of what Jeremy was saying in in doing the research on this also finding out about other cities that have uh equity you know come as the very core of how they're approaching their budget and this this really opened our eyes to you know in the future um when building the budget having having city staff potentially you know use a tool like this and the very beginnings of coming up with the with the budget um and being able to um ask ask these questions um and you know have some you know more public discussion about what is being included in the budget and what is um given what level of funding to what ends um for for the community um so this was kind of our first furry into this and would love to continue this conversation in the future hey thank you Dan go ahead sure and then more i'll echo the thanks for uh for drafting this document and bringing it before us i think i think it is helpful i guess um one thing that that strikes me on the idea of unintended consequences i don't know if they're necessarily unintended they strike me more as collateral consequences um you know because and i think it's really helpful to think about that because you know that's something i think we always try to do informally but but this document kind of makes it a formal thing which is if you cut one thing what are the collateral consequences of that cut i mean you know when we're doing these budgets our main goal is to make sure we build a budget that that funds our you know things that we've priorities and things we've done before paving the streets and such in a manner that's consistent with an affordable tax rate you know as connor alluded to but you know when we have to do years like this where we're having to make hard decisions i think this is a really good tool for us to be thinking through what are the collateral consequences um and i guess i just suggest as you start to revise that that that might be the better phrasing of it because it's often hard to say what are the unintended consequences until they're actually on your plate but i think that thinking about collateral consequences you know who picks up the slack if we stop doing x um or if we do if we fund x to a lesser extent um i think those are really good questions to ask so thanks well lord so ahead yeah and i mean first of all just thanks so much to the social and economic justice advisory committee for bringing this forward i know you know we've talked for a while and having this this tool in front of us and the run through super helpful to kind of see in practice how we could do this i am hopeful um that uh even the work that we're going to be doing with creative discourse the consultant that um the city council and uh city has hired to help with this work i mean that seems like a great kind of um project working with the staff on how to to do budgeting i mean to me you know budgets are such a moral document and how are we living out our values in in our budgeting from the ground up as jeremy put it um so i i look forward to to that in the future and think you know even this year even at this point in the process it's really helpful to think through and you know i continue to wrestle to with the the fundamental question of you know that line of where raising taxes it creates its own set of equity implications versus cutting programs you know when people are you know have more needs than ever um and you know i hope there's also thinking we can do about you know are there are there third ways are there you know places where you know can we if we're going to do a package that raises taxes can we do some kind of rent relief right i know we pushed off property tax deadlines or you know are there other ways we can think creatively about how to fund programs that we as a council and think our community would really want to fund right now that um are not creating the equity concerns you know or try to try to mitigate to the the best of our ability the people that will be harmed by increased property taxes so hope we can be a little creative around that as well that was my thoughts but thank you again so much for bringing this for other thoughts questions comments right well so at this point i i'm anticipating that we are going to use this document as we go through our budget conversation you know that that these are important questions to ask ourselves as we deliberate and and actually to have in mind as we're going into the conversation um which is actually why i wanted to make sure that we had this on the agenda for the budget conversation um so thank you again and uh look forward to uh hearing from you all again sometime or just even just checking in about this conversation as it goes so thank you thank you thanks for the time okay um all right so next on the list is uh the center for my home health and hospice ballot request funding request um so uh yeah i um i see that there's a couple representatives from home health and hospice here um so i'm going to turn it over to you all unless bill there's anything else that you wanted to say about this before okay um all right i'm going to turn it all over to uh to you all go ahead great good evening uh my name is sandy russon president the central home health and hospice i see some familiar faces here i'm here this evening with some representatives from the organization as well as some citizens of montilier um first of all kim farnham is our director of development and community relations um mary kate mulman is a montilier citizen and she's also on our board of directors we have alex bozowski um for alex i always carve up his name he is also a montilier citizen and a staff of our organization um that plays multiple roles in our work and is pursuing um masters in public health because of his work with our organization so we're pretty excited about that in addition we have a steve dale here his dad is on our service and he um is a member of uh montilier and um certainly is it's extremely appreciative of those services during this time so once again thank you for having us and allowing us to present and i'll be really hearing up front about our ask um we are asking for a one-year extension of montilier's petition rule due to covid and to allow central vermont home health and hospice funding request to be a line item on the 2021 ballot in the amount of $23,500 so i have a presentation here to share with all of you and i didn't know i know i believe it was sent to was it sent to bill kim fernham or who was it sent to well we did all uh we did all see it i i believe okay so i can go through i can either screen share or i can just go through and tell you what page i'm on whatever's easiest for all of you i particularly for those who don't have it i think screen sharing would be best and camera and uh to uh say do you have permission to do that yes okay i do great can you see my screen um yes we can even though we've been zooming for months now um you just never know so let's see so really briefly our mission um just for anyone who doesn't know we're not for profit visiting nurse association and we're full service um we actually care for individuals prenatal care um through end of life um we also are very focused in providing medically necessary home health and hospice care regardless of an individual's ability to pay that care is provided under doctors orders and that is the majority of the care that we provide so Medicare and Medicaid funding makes up a minimum of 80 of our funding certainly we also have a mission to promote the general welfare of the community with health promotion and long-term care services those long-term care services are non medically necessary services but they're extremely necessary for individuals that are failed disabled or are older adults and it's all those things that allow them to stay in their home that delays and or prevents them from having to go into some form of facility living such as getting their groceries done doing their cooking doing errands for them you know doing their cleaning etc in addition to that central Vermont home health and hospice has really been embedded in community health since the beginning of time um actually through the history that i've gone through um when we took over um providing in-home nursing care from the town um basically it was focused on maternal and child health care and working with children's and families and moms having babies and in addition to doing a lot of community health outreach with regards to clinics especially vaccination clinics so this past year of course you can only imagine um at one point we were considering potentially getting out of the flu clinic business um because you can go anywhere and get a flu shot you can get it at the grocery store at Walmart pharmacies your providers do robocalls to you to make sure you make your appointments um what we found is we are glad that we kept it and it is something our community expects and businesses we do still do quite a bit of that work and we were able to increase the number of clinics we do and partner with the state of Vermont to get more vaccination to expand our clinics this year um certainly there are a lot of logistics around it we have a flu clinic team that works on that um especially one of our main referral sources central Vermont medical center their primary care practices and doctor's offices we're not doing what they call their clinics where people can just make an appointment to see a nurse get a shot and leave so it was a huge huge um lift for us to really put all that in place um we did it we came together and we worked with the state and we worked with our partners to make sure those that needed to be vaccinated were vaccinated and um we also worked with the cbmc patient and family center team and advocates um because certainly they were getting a lot of calls of unhappy patients that couldn't get their flu shot at their doctor unless they had a regular medical appointment and had other needs so we are also working with the state of Vermont and the Vermont department of health in preparing to work with them to administer COVID vaccinations in the community so um more to come on that but we'll be working with all our towns um in washington county to set those up and or we'll um be partnering with different Vermont department of health public health settings so care for all Montpelier residents roughly central Vermont home health and hospice these 2,800 patients are so a year we have 800 patients on service on any given day um that doesn't mean all those patients get a visit on that day but certainly it means that they can call us on call we are 24 seven seven days a week and we do have weekend staff that work on a regular basis for Montpelier service numbers I can say um this past year in 2020 we haven't don't have the final results yet but certainly we're seeing about an 8 to 12 percent increase in the services we've provided to the city of Montpelier Montpelier accounts for about 16 percent of our services the second largest service area in our service area very city being the first and in 2019 we had growth of about six percent in Montpelier so um as some of you have said this evening it has been an extraordinary year for our organization it has been really from the beginning we were able to be nimble and really meet the demands of our community and be the frontline providers our primary care practices really relied on us because most of our staff from a clinician visiting staff perspective have laptops or tablets we were they were very easily easily able to work remotely they were already using zoom for huddle calls in the morning and afternoon so a lot of this was already in place in their work the most we had to do was really manage the the administrative staff and getting them off-site and our IT team did a great job um when it came to PPE of course most of our work is done in the home so we have a very small supply closet although we have face shields and gowns that we wear periodically for different patients we take care of we don't have huge inventory so we had to really jump start and find our way up through the chain of command because certainly trying to get any sort of PPE whether it was surgical masks gloves gowns face shields etc were pretty close to you know slim to none we were able to get an initial shipment from the state of Vermont thank goodness because we were seeing positive COVID patients right off the bat so in addition to that certainly being a nimble we were very able to pivot very quickly we had we were providing face-to-face visits we had to review all our patients that were on service all new referrals coming in because none of our services stopped or our doors remained open like I said our providers relied on us to potentially put eyes on and or keep in close touch with these individuals that were in their home they wanted to keep them in their home in the community out of the hospitals out of the ed they want you know we were all working to really protect each other we actually had expanded offerings to those individuals that we bring care to in transitional settings so sometimes individuals think that home health basically you have to have a home and that's you know where you receive your care we've been providing care to individuals that are homeless that are in transitional housing lots of people we see our couch surfing especially in our maternal and child health program a term we use you know within so really we are really trying to support all walks of life with this with COVID it expanded that much more we were involved in a lot of community groups that we have been involved in that we're really trying to come together to figure out how do we meet the demands and needs of these individuals in the place they're at we didn't want them getting in vehicles and being transported whether it be to the lab or to get a COVID test certainly we also have facilitated meal delivery through the Vermont everyone eats program we have a huge freezer downstairs we deliver to our patients who have food security needs and in addition to that we also are supporting some of our staff that have some needs with their families right now through that so it's been been a huge huge help and then a lot of what we did our goal was to really try to keep as many staff as possible employed so what we did for some of those programs that have had lower volume and we were really trying to keep people out for as much as possible or some of our clients just didn't want anybody coming in but they had needs we were having staff make phone calls to those clients on a regular basis is if they have the capability to video we were doing that and really the focus was do you have what you need are you getting your groceries how are you feeling to really try to prevent social isolation in a time where so many of these individuals just couldn't go out and when they wanted or couldn't have company when they wanted so so huge huge list there and once again we had assisted living is calling us community care homes calling us when the governor ordered the stay home stay safe my phone started bringing off the hook so really we're considered a hub in the community we work within a lot of these organ other organizations and housing units you have several of those in mom's failure and we were really trying to work together to provide them with the support some of some of them have no clinical staff on site so they were really looking to us to help them with infection control how do they keep everybody isolated what PPE should they be using how should they be doing it can we support them in covid testing so too we join forces with our medical director for physician oversight with covid testing as soon as we found out there were tests available our association we have an association that works with all the bna statewide we were able to coordinate with the vermont department of health as well as with our local hospitals in all our areas and we were able to provide and go to people to administer covid tests so once again people from all walks of life our homeless population those in transitional housing we were going to a lot of the motels and hotels very close in touch with the good Samaritan to keep individuals in place do the testing there to prevent them from having to get in the vehicle and go somewhere else to get what they needed also while we were there we were assessing their situation did they have food did they have what they needed if they had a family and children did they have internet access for those children to access schools did they have a computer and we were working with like we normally do but kind of in high capacity um you know with other organizations to get these individuals what they need once again I discussed we partnered with central vermont medical center and also the state of vermont to facilitate referrals central vermont medical center habits had a covid call center and we were working through them to be able to administer the tests under a doctor's order with our medical director and replace kits as we use them so we would have adequate supply of testing um and then also providing education and support to assisted living and community care homes as I mentioned in the prior so once again um just really that being able to be nimble and pick up where we needed to kind of start taking off was pretty amazing and something I'm pretty proud of that this staff could do so easily so significant reducing exposure to the virus really when you think about it the virus needs to be contained in the community when individuals get to the hospital and they have it they're still coming out right so our goal as an organization we put together an internal covid team was really about how do we contain the virus in the community so what that meant is we had to go people and get them some gifts and get them what they needed we've had a tele monitor program in place since 2007 we were the second bna in the state to put that program in place interestingly enough it was really hard for physicians to start to adapt using technology as a way to assess patients and keep them healthy and I can honestly say this past spring everybody adapted it and we are moving forward and have some really close relationships that have been built as a result the one thing we did do in october 2019 was we actually had updated our program and our our system that certainly enhanced the capabilities of our telehealth program with video visits educational materials etc so utilizing telehealth really allowed us very quickly to pivot we already had it in place we already had some staff that were using video we have a telehealth manager that oversees a panel of patients of 70 plus patients we actually ordered additional tablets and monitors so we could use them in under all different situations and in addition to that we had some ipads to use sometimes we would even facilitate a physician visit where the physician would want to do a visit with the patient but they wanted the nurse there so that we could write them in there talk through what that person's needs were and automatically change the care plan and everybody's hearing the same thing versus there being a communication gap and expanding connectivity and providing essential care to those patients that are really at high risk for hospitalization so I think we're finding as we go through the data and with our main referral source and doing some surveying and that that some people were able to continue and a lot of people were able to continue to access the health care they needed because they were working with organizations such as the physicians going to telehealth partnering with their home health agencies and other social service agencies to be able to put eyes on these individuals and get them what they needed so that was a really significant role for us and one other thing with connectivity we actually worked with the green mountain united way and really trying to once again get individuals connected to wi-fi or cellular access whether it be for them to continue to receive medical care or for them to be able to get their children access to school so really really important I know we had one situation as well as we skip to the history of partnership with Montpelier we have seen an increase in our maternal and child health care services that have a lasting impact on individuals we have seen this across all the towns that we serve in our service area I myself actually benefited from these services 18 years ago when I had a high risk pregnancy but certainly what we know in health care is for chronic disease to for that curve to change and for us to really keep people healthy we need to start prenatally we need to start with children we need to start with parenting and education and so we've done that through this crisis and through this this extraordinary time that we were in all of our nurses and in that program are certified in lactation support we had one mom who had a newborn she was scared to death because she was struggling breastfeeding that baby our nurse geared up and all her PPE went out to see that individuals spent quite a bit of time in that home to get things going well so that that new mom um young new mom was comfortable feeding her baby supplemented it during the week with video visits and went back because they didn't want to have too many visits too close together to really limit the exposure that patient wrote to this team and was so thankful for the service and admitted that I don't know what I would have done if I couldn't feed my child thank god you were there because there were no other services available and frankly I felt like committing suicide when you read something like that and when you hear something like that as a provider that's significant in addition to that with mom piliar we have had a long history of voter support every time we've been on the ballot the community has supported us this is what the voters want um piliar once again makes up about 16 percent of our total visits organizational wide and is the second largest service area that we serve and primarily we do not deny referrals we are mandated first of all we are regulated and we can't the only time we can is if we cannot meet the medical and social needs of that individual and we go through a rigorous process with the state if we don't accept that client once and also as I mentioned earlier we have seen an increase in the number of mom piliar residents that we're seeing supporting mom piliar residents um the mom piliar chief of police brian pete was um did an amazing job and and organizing a thank you parade for our staff um it happened at the end of october we were very excited about it our staff know public safety officers pretty well they're pretty intimate with the emf crew a lot of the work we've been trying to do is really making sure that we all as first responders are using our resources adequately so we are we feel really good about having good relationships we're actually piloting some work in berry city with their emf team right now and if it works well we hope to start trying to replicate it with other towns and cities emf staff but ultimately we want these individuals to be able to respond to things that really need their response so how do we work together to do that why we need town funds um certainly one of the key things is we reach vulnerable individuals including people with vulnerability and transportation challenges to provide essential medical care and certainly covid testing and treatment this was significant during this and in this pandemic and we continue to do that we are seeing positive covid patients on a regular basis we are going out testing individuals on a regular basis not only the individual that is the patient um but inevitably some of their family members when we walk into a home it's very similar to an emergency department we do not have control over who's been in there so ultimately we gear up we go in we try to help situation that's happening we've been doing a lot of this testing um just because it's part of our mission how are we going to keep the community healthy and safe we've been providing care to people at home this in itself reduces the exposure and the community's spread of the virus so we're working very closely with monitoring our staff screening our staff um and making sure that they are not a vector for spread i'm pretty proud to say and hate to even say it to a degree but we've only had three staff that have been positive and actually two of them are a community acquired and one um was in a facility and with a recent outbreak and they were doing post-mortem care for a hospice patient i think it was just really hard to not be close together and with the outbreak happening it was it was certainly a fluke and no faults on on anyone's part per se and also i think really in this this moment of time during these extraordinary times we were able to expand healthcare options so by being able to really stand up and mobilize and provide telehealth provide face-to-face provide phones and really not skip a beat so to speak and make it happen when it needed to happen was really key and it's really important that we're able to be able to keep people in the community and not being having to be transported around to get what they need when they need it and really having a good working relationship with the towns that we work with with public safety officers with our local referral sources and other community service organizations i know a lot of them called us and we called each other for support whether we're working with our local food bank or capstone or good Samaritan or you know thousand task force in Montpelier because we have you know we're seeing patients better better homeless you know how do we manage that and get them what they need when we when they need it where they need it so i know it's fairly quick i know i had a short amount of time on the agenda and i am certainly open to answering any questions you may have great thank you um if you oh it looks like you're stopping to share your screen great um comments or questions from folks Donna and Connor well sandy i'm just so impressed that you really showed the the broadness of your services and the depth of your care and involvement in our community it's very impressive you know i have people who've used central mont home health hospice and i think i know about it but you showed me how much i didn't know and i really feel for your workers because they're right in the home so i'm glad that you're doing all you can to keep them safe and that so far it seems to be working i really appreciate you thanks donna i appreciate it great thank you connor hi i i would just echo donna um i was watching the news the other day i saw like a hospital ward with like a bunch of like selfie sticks with like iPhones on them um just all across the hospital ward with people who were like on their last legs and that was the only mechanism they had to say goodbye to their family so you know some of the situations you guys are in and uh how you pulled through over the last few months has just been incredible and i think uh you know some of the workers are the heroes of this whole pandemic here um i had an old mentor tom moore who passed away a couple years ago but he always said like steve dale had the the best hardened state government so just seeing steve there in a uh in a situation where you know he's reliant on this um it kind of hits home so i i really hope the voters among billier um come to the table for you and get you by this tough time so thanks so much right thank you yeah other thoughts or comments uh dan and then jack sure i just actually have a procedural question so because sandi's asking for um to be put on the ballot we'll be we'll consider those at the january meeting when we start to finalize or is this something where we're looking to take action now or so that's a good question i i think that we are looking to take action on that now i um correct me if i'm wrong no but i believe we can um i do that sooner rather than later like we don't have to do it at that last meeting um necessarily that's just the the final day that we could put people on uh that that uh thursday and january or so but um leave i think particularly sorry so i i think particularly the um one of the reasons to consider it now is so that they know whether or not they have to go find 600 signatures um and whether or not we'd be asking that of them um and i i'll just speak for myself and um since since we're talking about it um i i think particularly because uh central mont home health and hospice was on the ballot last year and it passed and they're not asking for any increase in funding i think that um that alone uh makes sense to put them on the ballot for this year and i i think i i think it'd be important for us to put some parameters around that because um um you know we don't uh necessarily know what the rules are going to be around um other groups um so but i mean in addition to to those qualifications i mean just the fact that um you know that they are dealing every day with potentially uh positive covid uh cases i don't think we you know asking um that in this particular crew even to to go around um collecting signatures i think um would be ill advised um so i i'll leave that there for for my comments on that but dan did you have something to follow up there and then jack go ahead sure i mean i i i i think your points are right as as we start to distinguish between these requests for um funding or petitioning items and i guess i would add on top of that is the fact that because this service is so essential in this year um that even if those other factors weren't there i would give serious consideration to this request because of the work that they're doing and its relationship to what we're experiencing right now as a community and as well really as a globe um and so i you know i'll just put that out there that i have no problem i just want to make sure we do this in a timely manner um yeah fair enough uh jack thank you thanks for the presentation i think uh like everyone else i agree this is a very uh worthwhile organization that provides vital uh services to our community um and obviously the voters of Montpelier if we put this on the ballot the voters of Montpelier will make the decision about whether to support it or not and my prediction is that they would support it uh with an overwhelming majority which is what typically happens um i'm curious are you uh going to the other towns you serve making a pitch for a commensurate uh level of funding and getting commensurate level of funding from the other towns yeah so we actually are funded by all the 23 towns um that we serve and it's all of washington county and three towns in orange county um williams town orange and washington and we have a whole process that we go through with regards to how we determine funding the requests that we make to each of the towns um it's based on per capita as well as percentage of visits and we also look at the census as well oh that's that's very helpful um you just to follow up on council member mccullough's question are you seeking the same to be placed directly on the ballot in those towns or are there other processes because we are actually yeah so actually the ones that we're going to request um petitioning have waived it so there is none um so city of montpellier is the only town city um within our service area that this is still outstanding and open um some of them actually put us lots of them put us right in um the budget and or others put us directly on the ballot so it is a mixed bag kim farnham our director of community relations and development could probably answer more specifically and more detailed of how's that how that works thank you um go ahead yeah i move that we uh waive the petition requirement uh and place uh central vermont home health and hospice on the ballot for the fiscal 2022 uh budget and uh i would note that i'm specifically basing this on the fact that this has been a petitioned item that has been supported by the voters in the past i'll second it should we should we add the amount 23,500 yes yes um just want to check uh with john is that specific enough language or do we need like verbatim language for you um i'm gonna need ballot language um if it doesn't exist yet um i mean you could just build it into you know the the motion you know with the ballot language to be provided so i should say so it should say shall the voters of one pillar approve the amount of 23,500 i think it probably makes more sense for us to um come up with that language uh to craft the specific language later so as john is suggesting to say um with language with specific language to be crafted later because we can approve it um together with the things on you have to approve final warning and all the ballot item and so what you're doing is instructing that this be placed on the warning and so when you see the final warning and all the drafting uh drafted articles you love your chance to approve the wording then yes let me just put something on and you can mess with it is that is that okay there jack with your motion yep okay great and john as well yep yep okay great uh all right super any further comments uh from folks public anyone um i'm mademire steve worker go ahead steven i want to uh second and convince the front line high-risk uh work hazard pay uh is warranted for these uh essential services especially in that they're providing them to folks on the street without preconditions um that's excellent i would ask is it a is central roman home health and hospital uh charitable non-profit 501c3 yes it is okay so so that i raised that question in the sense of uh public money in the transparency requirements the 990 that's filed uh and should be available would as well as some in some areas these types of agencies are uh very top-heavy with their salaries and i would rather see the money go to the folks who was uh doing the work uh secondly when you mentioned connectivity i would encourage you to get your uh comments in tomorrow is the last day for comments on the public service departments uh covid response and telecommunications recovery plans and your requirements for bandwidth and the minimum bandwidth requirements to do the telehealth services that you're doing uh need to be registered there because they're headed down a path that uh would serve inadequate bandwidth for what you need to do so uh you y'all are a good constituency to argue for better bandwidth so uh thank you for your work and uh i'll support your effort great thank you and uh yes uh steve go ahead uh just a quick comment first of all thank you for your support for such romantic health um my uh my father came to live with us a year ago today he turned 100 on jim ninth and uh wanted to thank the police department and the fire departments and my failure for being part of a massive parade on terrace street that was uh something to be home um but it is uh little did we know what was about to happen and i have to tell you that the services that we've gotten through this agency have been uh have allowed this to be a really terrific year um an experience i never would have predicted but you don't want to be taking a hundred-year-old man into doctor's offices for covid tests for he had um you know congestion in his head and of course the concern was what's going on does he have covid and so on and so forth and um having the steady support um in the home has been an absolute lifesaver to say nothing of um some regular personal care services in our home that's made it really possible for this to be an excellent experience and we have been really blessed to have him with us now for a full year as of today and actually today's his hundred his hundredth and a half birthday so uh anyway thanks to all of you and thank you for your great work thank you um other thoughts or comments okay well man i just want to thank um all of you all of the council members that i spoke with just helping us navigate these waters as a newcomer newcomer to uh municipal government so it was really helpful and thank you very much and a lot of your comments just warm this epidemiologist's heart well we are so grateful for the work that you do it is um even more important now and that certainly came through in your presentation um so thank you again um so i think there so there's been a motion and a second as there any further conversation okay um all in favor please say aye hi and opposed okay um thank you and uh we'll uh be rooting for you on town meeting day thank you very much yeah um yes so donna is asking for a break if i'm not mistaken um yes bill i suggest that we have the pending question on the waste the water resource recovery facility that warren raised that we do that and then take a break and then go to the budget but i think that um yes that that would be okay with me as long as it's okay with others donna you're gonna be okay i'll just skip out and come back okay that's that's fun fair enough um great okay i think i think that makes sense um all right so uh lauren go ahead what are your thoughts on um this item yeah thank you um so i was trying to get clarity like when we had had a conversation back in february as a council um about uh the pfas issue um in the leachate that is brought into montpelier um at that point we had asked the question like are there is there a contract for that and we were told no i was and i know that this is for liquid organic waste with some definition so i wasn't clear if this covers the uh the leachate um first and foremost i guess that's one question for for bill or whoever on staff i believe it does not i believe this is the this is the capacity that we've uh supported with the new wastewater treatment plant the new capacity to take uh heavy food waste and those kinds of things the leachate comes specifically from the landfill and there's a little that's only one place we have you know it's the commentary landfill we don't take it from any place else so um but i think kurt is on the line and i believe donna was so i would like to have people that are more knowledgeable than me but i don't i i think this is not we have at least kurt was on the line at least give up i think i see donna donna's here like i see donna um so oh hi sorry this is he's better at this than i was here there sorry um so this is really for the new waste stream um for generation of methane that's uh to produce power and under phase two um so there's you know the organic waste this is really food waste so there's essentially no PFAS associated with food waste it's primarily from waterproofing materials you know the study the state did a couple years ago or yeah i think it was about a year and a half ago um showed that primarily PFAS is resulting from leachate like bill said so i don't anticipate these contracts that we're working on now this is a new waste stream that we've never been able to take before until we did the phase one contract um because we didn't have the you know the equipment in place um to process it so this is not we have not still developed the contract for leachate yet we've been really kind of tied up with the um with the new waste streams that we're dealing with um so i don't anticipate like is there any impact on PFAS levels through uh these contracts okay that's helpful they do use PFAS in food packaging so if we tested more we might actually find that that's not totally accurate um but i don't think that we have data on that right now so i mean yeah i guess just i i just don't want to keep this issue on our radar and i mean i do think it's tied into the budget because we make money off of taking the leachate from the city and so if we were going to go a different route in the future like that would have budgetary implications and i mean i just am still uh really concerned that we're knowingly taking a you know a product into into our community that like stays around forever and it doesn't break down it's mobile and gets into water um it could contaminate people it could create a cleanup project in the future so i just i just want to keep bringing it up that i think we need to deal with it and i know we've been in like crisis mode and have lots on our plate um but just seeing this contract kind of re-raised for me that just wanted to keep this on our on our mind so that we you know maybe after we get through budget and later in january or february could re-look at you know what our options are or at least like what data should be starting to get to make it better informed um decisions about our options which i think it is a situation where they're not great options um but nonetheless just keeping doing what we're doing is continues to concern me that we're creating problems down the road for the community so i'll just leave it there thank you yep just a follow-up really really quick laren if you don't um but i did uh i did have a discussion um last week with uh a member of the um state wastewater management division when we had spoken with the state in february i think you know we were looking for some sort of um surface water stand discharge standard from them and they're still working on that they have not uh created the surface water discharge standard um you know basically there's a drinking water standard of 20 parts per billion uh and that's for vermont and then EPA has the 70 parts per billion um so which is right around where our excellent is is right around the EPA standard um so i think what our plan was i believe from our last meeting uh regarding PFAS was to come back and once the surface water standard was established that we would um you know revisit it and see you know how monthly are compared to that standard i'm not sure that's what i know how you thought the last conversations i've had with the dc it's probably going to be years before they developed that standard so i just i think like to doing nothing in the interim not even collecting data i just i would like to continue the conversation of if nothing else better understanding what we're bringing into the community and what complications it might have um totally here at you it's it's like it's very hard to deal with because there's not good federal action on it and every state's kind of grappling with how to deal with this kind of emerging contaminant concern but um knowing bringing it in and potentially creating a problem for our community i just i think we can do better than just sit there and wait and keep doing it and we will have the water and sewer budgets in front of you in february so might be a good time to have dig into that thank you thank you uh so is there a motion regarding uh item b from the consent agenda i'll make a motion to approve uh the contract um for uh the waste holler contract uh as presented a second any further discussion on this okay um all right all in favor please say aye aye and oppose okay so that item passes and we're gonna take a break uh is eight forty four so see you back here ten minutes nine forty four or yeah eight four eight fifty four uh as we go into this uh budget conversation i um assuming i'm just gonna turn it over to bill and and then i'll have some thoughts to share afterwards uh so go ahead thanks uh first of all hopefully so um you should have all received uh the budget delivered electronically uh friday night and then maybe a revised version on monday some of you that wanted books the books are here we have i think we have books for everybody if you'd like them or not i'm going to do a very quick uh summary basically just a fine-tuned version of what you saw last week uh now that we have some details to set up the conversation and really want to get right into the meat of it so if i if i may like to share my screen assuming i can is that may i do that camera now you can yes now i can beautiful all right that is not what so hopefully people can see this yes am i is my screen on yes great okay well um last week we gave you a preliminary budget overview this week is really the proposed budget um this a lot of this is going to look really familiar but i will get through it uh relatively quickly and point out the highlights again the fy 22 budget uh the real story of this was the major budget gap due to covid we needed to deliver responsible services implement our strategic plan and we based it on a one-year covid 19 horizon which really at this point is more of a one and a half year because we're talking about between now and a june 30 2022 and acknowledging that residents and businesses are have been hurt by covid uh both emotionally physically and financially our strategic plan priorities uh set up or prosperity covid 19 response environmental stewardship more housing responsive and responsible government and sustainable infrastructure so what what was the problem is is again i won't go into these in detail but we had major revenue shortages including parking fund shortages that had offset expenses in the general fund leading us to about a million dollars shortfall we also had some built-in expense gaps including as fate would have it in this year a 27th pay period which just added one more you know one segment of cost of years making a combined gap of just under one and a half million dollars so the budget we provided uh we really didn't didn't really focus on any one area we looked across the board at everything we've held six positions vacant we reduced the capital and equipment plan we at this point held some funding vacant in external and community funding although i know that'll be a conversation tonight our operations funding is down and it assumes no ballot items which that has already changed that was a way of closing that gap so as as laid out it has a two cent two point four cent tax decrease a two percent reduction and and um that is not meant to be sort of playing smoke and mirrors i do recognize that that what that really means is there's some funding left for the council to allocate where it wants to if uh if they want to still keep it out of zero we included my pillar live the equity consultant that was talked about earlier meac social worker the library ballot item all our personnel cost the allegations and tried to keep basic services so here's the key budget issue or one of i mean they're all key budget issues but certainly one i think it's on everyone's mind there is 208 000 and reduced property tax revenue however um there were those five key items the community fund housing trust fund popular development corporation homelessness task force the public arts arts fund which right now don't have any money in the budget at the fyi 21 level uh that was 406 000 050 that's what we had budgeted initially pre-pandemic and then when we made the adjustments in uh june i guess when for fyi 21 the the covid budget mitigation plan that total reduced down to 298 000 550 uh so there's clearly a challenge there i would say to you that um as we kick this off one of the key decisions you want to make in the same way that you just dealt with the cv hh h um ballot request i would say a decision on the community fund is probably very important to make early because it will it also makes a difference whether people petition and um giving people a clear signal what's going to happen with that i'd also say that um while i won't back away from what i signed my name to i have thought about it since we sent that out friday night and probably if i had to do over i would have included that line fully in the budget it goes to a lot of agencies of needy people and left the others out but i really felt it was important that you you're the policy makers these are community funds and that it's your place to set these priorities more so than staff we can set the priorities for operations and which roads and which equipment and those kinds of things but um that these are really your calls um and as we talked about last year last week um is the one-year horizon the possible problem the responsible choice did we get the funding uh priorities right is the strategic plan adequately addressed and there should have been material there was material in your budget book um analyzing the strategic plan uh what are priorities for restoration if if our revenues approve of what is the appropriate tax rate set our goal of doing the budget was to not increase the tax rate we actually gave you a couple of cents to play with um as you want to think about putting things back in or of course accept it the way it is a reduced tax rate uh so with that the we're at the schedule this is today's workshop we have another one scheduled for january 6th how we get tonight we'll determine whether we want to add a third one in there public hearing on january 13 and a public hearing on thursday january 21 i will say for the new folks going through the public hearings can also be more budget deliberation um just because the preliminary budget on january 6th to go to public hearing doesn't mean you can't change it after public hearing so the so the two workshops are your only chance to fool with the numbers as we mentioned earlier our goal is to have the water and sewer budgets to you in february to discuss those budgets since those don't go on the ballot but are still important and then our residents will be voting on the general fund on march 2nd and the early voting to start so that's our schedule that's the outline of course i was happy to answer uh more questions and so i'm happy to answer any questions or have you start off i do have the worksheet that i set out that at any point i can pop back up on the screen i have already updated it and put the um okay uh so just for uh the context here that i see connor um i would like to take up the issue of the community fund first uh because i think that that is urgent really and i guess i would also just advocate that i think there are a lot of reasons to just include this into the budget to add this back in um i have more i well thoughts i could share about that but i i also see uh some folks have turned their videos on um so before we uh get to your comment connor um i want to give the opportunity uh christine or judy or um others any um folks that would like to comment on the mob killer community funds no that's okay i'm just giving lots of thumbs up i go ahead thanks sorry oh yes go ahead thank you so christine zaki um i'm the current chair of the mob killer community fund board um amy conningham michael sherman and judy sure um stern stern are all members of the council who are on as well um and thank you for approving a new member to our board this evening as well um so we share a memo with you um on tuesday and i don't want to reiterate the contents of that um but would just briefly say that um that our concern with um the potential to not see any funding in the mob killer community fund is really twofold it's the real financial and human impact on the nonprofits the programs the services that make mob killer the community that we know and love and also it's the precedent around process um and so it's it's both of those issues combined um it's already past nine so i'm going to leave it there and refer council members to the memo that i shared with you earlier this week um and you know our our other board members as well as myself are more than happy to engage in discussion or questions thank you um kind of i know i sort of cut you off there earlier was it about the community fund it wasn't but um yeah it's probably the budget big book i'd love a breakdown of those uh 39 recipients of uh community fund uh funding if that's possible at some point they're posted on the website the past ones are okay yeah i don't think they're in the budget but but we do okay um so yeah um i agree past uh precedents uh also these other organizations knowing whether or not they're going to have to get signatures uh they they should again if if we're not going to put them in the budget they should know that now um so um any other thoughts i get done that was giving a thumbs up don't you like to make a motion i would but i sometimes rush you you don't want me to make a motion yet it's okay if you want to this one i'm gonna make a motion for the month player community fund to be put into the budget at the 131050 what it was for this year i'll second that okay there's motion is a um further discussion on this okay i'm not seeing any discussion it's very interesting uh i mean i i think it's seems like this is something we need to do um all right so um uh dan go ahead yeah i i i guess if we want to sort of mull it over a little bit publicly you know the community fund strikes me as our our version of the united way which is you know the 39 different recipients that are of different you know they range from the arts to human services to other important features and my understanding is the community fund was even created to stop this sort of hodgepodge uh series of independent the alec budget petitions um and that of course would be undone by zeroing this out so that so you know this strikes me as as a strategic um you know return to the budget that serves a lot of the the services and were the organizations that we would otherwise be parsing out one by one by one and that's the whole reason to have the community fund board to do that so i i support this uh thank you j well i just want to add to that um i want to thank christine and and folks from for putting together that that memo and that pie chart that really shows the diversity of organizations that this fund supports i think that that's really important um as we think about putting it back in the budget and the other piece of it too as we is concerned about creating a situation where um folks are having to compete and we think about um trying to you know get on the ballot and compete for attention and campaign and invest very very limited resources um to uh to uh to try to uh connect with city resources that i just think would create a process that is just really unnecessarily and not serving our community so thank you other comments uh jack go ahead well one thought i have is that although we're talking about putting it in at the level of $131,050 um it's conceivable that the the fund board would but by making decisions on what they're uh what they're supporting we'd go for either a higher or lower level or is this the total of the funding requests that they have at this point it's a good question you um did you just speak to that budget sorry bill what this is the total of last year's budget okay and in fact we started with a slightly higher number and they came in with a you know i think it was six or seven thousand dollar reduction based on their recommended awards but i think what the council would be saying is you know this is your account okay thanks okay great um madam mayor i have a comment or a question go right ahead uh is is it um and i hard for you if i have if i've missed a key decision uh has there been any thought to whether or not we could in this budget process over the next month uh kind of create priorities for should there be federal uh grants much more flexible than were uh in the first cares act made available uh could they be pretty designated to add up some of these things like the community fund uh specifically without having to rehash the entire budget process could there kind of be a placeholder to put in for those that will get up if uh the deficit is a remedy through federal action that's a great question and i think uh it speaks to um in addition to whether or not the um uh federal government or other money becomes available for municipalities uh it also is is tied i think to the question of what happens if more if we just have more money than we expect to have as a result of the recovery from covid and for that more we are already talking about having um what we're calling a build back uh list and i think um that question of uh potential for federal money would be uh a part of that discussion as well like where where does that money go towards like what would we fund um should we have more than we expect so so it's a good question and um i uh bill correct me if i'm wrong but i think the the plan is to um come up with what our base budget is and then after that discussion is more or less completed to figure out um so what what do we need to be thinking about beyond what was in the the base level budget that's correct we have to bring the amount of property tax budget to the voters in march but if we get other revenues then we can add more services or or projects or whatever to them or funding um and we wouldn't we do want to think about that in sense this is these cuts are all driven by the loss of revenue so just sequentially speaking that conversation would be happening the soonest in february um fall park um but thank you um other other comments or questions okay so there's uh uh yes christine go ahead all right i just wanted to elaborate on the answer that bill gave to um councilor mccollough just to say that the total amount of requests that the community fund received this year was 190 190 dollars so just shy of 200 000 dollars um so taking out central Vermont community hospice you know which now is going to the ballot that would mean that leaves us with 166 690 dollars in requests we we will adhere to the cap that the council has set for us um and so that means that you know right off the bat even if um you know that we would be looking at 36 540 dollars um in requests that would not be able to be funded if that makes sense and if the council would be interested in keeping that in mind should other funds be available in february just putting it out there i mean that would be interesting certainly um especially as you go through your process and and make recommendations or you know we're not um so i'm actually keeping that in mind you know if there are if you all want to come back to us um with that um a suggestion in in line with that you know that would be that'd be useful um okay any other thoughts or comments okay there's been a motion and a second um all in favor please say aye aye and opposed okay uh thank you awesome that's uh it's nice to to have that clear and and done and thank you again um to the community fund board for all your work um and uh we look forward to hearing back from you all thank you uh okay so at this point um we do have uh a few other uh well actually just to um to wrap that up uh i don't know if anyone else is has their budget spreadsheet open i know that was that was shared with us earlier um but it might be good to include that amount in in our budget spreadsheet for those who are keeping track uh but jack go ahead um i uh i thought the uh the budget book from the manager manager and and from kelly was very good kelly thank you i will come in and pick it up i didn't make it in to the police today um or yesterday i thought the the discussion about the uh the services that are being uh that had not been funded at this point was was very constructive and i would request that we put in uh 50 000 for the housing trust fund as the housing task force requested and 45 000 for the homelessness task force there's uh a really pressing need and i think that uh even in tough times you know that times are tough for the those of us who on our homes and pay taxes uh in the city i i think they're much tougher for the people who are living without housing and so my edits would be plus 50 000 online 38 and plus 45 000 online 40 is that a motion because i'll second open this that's a motion if that's the way we're doing it yes that that's great um i i support that as well in fact those were the uh same additions that i had and if i have that calculation right in and my spreadsheet that puts us at uh plus 0.2 percent which i actually think is great um it's close to zero which i think respects the fact that uh you know a lot of people are struggling right now uh and can't absorb uh much more but 0.2 percent increase feels uh if we're if we're able to do quite a bit of good with just a 0.2 percent increase i think that is worthwhile um other thoughts counter go ahead yeah no like i would enthusiastically second that i um think we had a good discussion last week and uh some of the points stand made really hit home as far as the storm is still coming you know we have this moratorium on evictions you know the states um but you know this stuff's going to expire and i i think homelessness is a very real and immediate threat of Montpelier it's not just Montpelier the surrounding communities that experience homelessness um it's going to pop up in town here so i i think we can respect that you know people don't have too much more to give as far as um you know property tax revenue but something like homelessness i think rises to the top as far as something that i think we can all pitch into to make sure that the most vulnerable during this time aren't left without anything so i i'm i'm really glad jack added that there was my two things as well great other thoughts uh dan yeah i'll i'll just echo it i mean while i i think we have have to you know look at how this money is ultimately spent in the same way that we we reevaluated last year's this current year's fiscal uh allocation for homelessness um because of i think things are may change um you know we may see an increase um but setting that money aside now is really important um because if we don't i think we're going to find ourselves in a situation where we would we're going to kick ourselves for not having done that because of the need and it strikes me that this is this is one of you know if we think about like the home healthcare and hospice allocations that we made this is another one of those issues that's really facing the um the community uh and likely to see an increase and this this at least gives us you know this fund um gives us a start on on addressing some of those needs so that we don't have to create this from scratch so um the only other thing i i would suggest that and i know we have the um development corporation representatives in in front of us um but i mean that is one of the items that we did zero out and i know um i spoke with bill caplan um and i i think that they have ideas about you know what they would seek to um seek from us uh and i think we have to be careful balancing some of these immediate social needs with um how is the development corporation or other entities going to help with um what retail and commercial businesses and you know that part of our community are facing as well with the continued economic limitations brought on by covid um and that's my only only concern i i i support the adding the homelessness back but i i think we have to be thoughtful because i think there's going to be another a couple other hands that may prove important as well it's an interesting point and it makes me wonder about um you know it sounds like you know the motion on the table is about um the money for the homelessness task force as well as the housing trust fund so in certain sense we're considering both of those together um but that we could yet consider other things um at a later point um and then i i think i saw a couple other hands uh tana and then loren i was also thinking about the monthly or development core i was so impressed how they helped downtown stores and they have such a a brain vault of their board and their outreach that i would like to give them something to work with i mean they had a very valuable consultant come in and help people if there are some more federal funds available people are going to need help again i just think it would be good to give them something i'm just not sure what the right amount is yes go ahead bill first of all i think economic development in general is an important priority um you know and that's why we funded this in the first place and how that i do want to make sure we're clear that the the business consultant that was brought in for the stores was actually through my pillar alive not through the my pillar development corporation so just and my pillar alive is fully funded um the but you know you're right the corporation had some funds they could get access to your corporation was led to charge to to do fundraising they actually gave me yeah yeah and they spoke thank you for the correction they're helpful with development projects and those kinds of things uh you know i i mean and so it's public arm i'm trying to say any of these aren't important but you know these are priorities that need to be decided by you folks and what the level of taxation is going to be thank you uh right lord um yeah i mean i i wholeheartedly support adding back in um the housing trust um and homelessness uh task force funding um i i mean i i think to the conversation earlier making sure that we're we're funding vital community needs right now i think is more important than ever and it seems like we're still within a very you know with with that equity lens like a good kind of tax trying to keep it as low as possible while making sure that we're um doing a really kind of thoughtful budget to the situation that our community members are facing um i mean personally i think for the popular development corporation conversation like i would love to encourage them they did such a great job fundraising um from some of the local businesses i mean if they you know the what in the grand scheme of what they raised was a pittance from the city i'd rather them look for private dollars for this year and see what they could do and keep it going that way i'd rather put the money personally towards popular alive if we had more money and funded that way um you know it would be great if they could keep going and get through this this time um but you know maybe they'll have a compelling uh proposal to bring to us in the coming weeks and uh could change could change our minds but um but that's my my thought at this moment i mean i think you know i really appreciate seeing in here the um ongoing commitment to the impeller energy committee and the you know the net zero work that is underway for the community the ongoing priority and the social justice contract knowing this ongoing commitment to that work i'm really appreciative of city staff and you know overall i think a lot of great work on the budget um i don't know if right now since we're in the middle of this motion around these two items i've got some like broader questions around like what the implications of the cuts are going to be um for the the departments and um kind of how we've set up the budget to be positioned kind of to steven's question of you know like what's we've talked about it a few times before and it was a little theoretical and now that we have real numbers like you know what would be the queue um or like what was the thinking behind how we would be positioned to respond if um i think the governor in a recent press conference said he was giving a greater than 50 chance of actual stimulus funding coming in soon so maybe it actually is real and we should definitely just be ready um in case uh so i wouldn't have those conversations but maybe that's outside of this motion yeah i think that's true because even it after we vote up or down this motion i think we'll still be discussing the budget so um um that'll still be relevant um but any other thoughts on the housing task force or um homelessness task force yes i admire steven what i've heard go ahead steven uh i would ask you to consider uh it's been a year and a half and all the homelessness task force has got to show for is a couple of porta bodies so i would ask that you consider uh one of the council members potentially making a friendly amendment that you continue uh make the award the 45 000 appropriation to the homelessness task force continued upon production of a plan and its use as matching funds that they there's plenty of money out there from foundations for that purpose but and it would necessitate some matching funds so by conditioning that 45 000 award on its use as matching funds you could potentially leverage it four or five times and you should require a plan because that that task force has been foundering for a year and a half and it's accomplished little but nothing so uh having been a founding member of it having pitched for its creation um i feel very qualified to ask you to hold that accountable and leverage it into real action thank you you steven dan go ahead sure i mean i i think we're already asking the homelessness task force to come to us i mean that was the point of last meeting is that you know we do need to revisit what their plans are i don't think i think by the time this is we're through with our budget we'll have um we'll have already gone through that so conditioning it doesn't seem like a reasonable uh request to me and you know the idea of matching funds strikes me as is a little bit of the the theater that we do with like vpr or any of these organizations where you know you you put out an amount of money and require matching funds i certainly see wisdom in having the homelessness task force seek out grants or um you know additional funding but it at the same time at least my as one member my my response is that i i think a lot of steve's comments go to the substantive conversation we're going to have with the task force not necessarily uh as a funding prerequisite thank you uh michael i just wanted to say about um growing out to foundations i've been doing some research for the social equity c jack because we're trying to raise the money that's that's the gap between what you've offered and what you've promised in what we need and every almost every place i've gone municipalities are excluded and and government organizations are excluded from their lists so um i think if you put that kind of the kind of condition that's been recommended you you're not going to you're just hobbling that group from moving forward thank you that's it's good to know but i i do agree that we are going to be hearing back soon from the homelessness task force and looking forward to that conversation all right any further comments okay so there's a motion and a second uh any further discussion all in favor please say aye and opposed okay so just as as a matter of process um i actually feel like it's probably not necessarily fair to discuss the uh monthly development corporation before we've heard from them um i think um it'd probably be good for us to uh to hold on those comments uh for now uh but loren you had some other questions yeah i mean i would love to just hear a little bit more now that we've got the real numbers in front of us of um like you know we've had some theoretical conversations about how are we we've got the kind of one year time horizon or a year and a half given when the budget kicks in of kind of recovery time and so could you just just describe again now that the numbers are real what the what in what you're proposing um what the implications for the city and like the functioning of the staff and like what what risks do you feel like this raises because it does you know i really appreciate bringing a a budget that meets these really um you know it's incredibly challenging numbers um you know and what does that mean for for the the departments and like you know where where are people going to be kind of suffering over for the next year under this budget because of the cuts that you know they've the departments and you all have put forward to us that's a great question and um i think representatives of virtual health departments are here and can speak for themselves so um i may have particularly ones that have some staff reductions talk about those for the most part we're reflecting what's already happening um with actually maybe some putbacks from the sort of current uh wounds on the ground for example finance is actually operating right now minus two positions uh and we've got one retained in the budget so hopefully they'll be filling one dpw is down three or four and we've got them down two so so there could actually be a little bit of improvement from what we're seeing now but they'll definitely be stretched um and the same thing with the police has been running um we we've with one vacancy we actually have one officer that we we lent to the state's drug task force which they're paying so that's how we open up a position and that's but you know since the school resource officer's on hold that's worked out okay um the i would say probably the biggest hit in my opinion is going to be in the rec department they've lost two maintenance people um which are there two maintenance people uh and the plan for at least this year is that the parks department will assist them so there will be some stress i think on those two departments and with some commitment from really all the rest of us to kick in and and when i say that i'm not really kidding um one of the things they do is mowing and at the budget congress everyone's hand would up to volunteer to take a turn mowing fields for a day including mine so i think we're going to try to try to get most out of any you want to go uh let us know but i think you know that would seem to me the biggest strain area but we also don't know if there's going to be rec programs this at least this coming summer um so that was the balance right is what what's going to be the need will the will there be baseball being played on the fields and those kinds of things what kind of effort is kind of needed so um in bigger picture to answer your question about putback and i think some of that is a policy discussion for in this process and now or later in my my mind only and this isn't discussed with hasn't been discussed with the team it really depends on how the funding what the funding source is and how it looks so if it's like a one time here's a slug of money um to get you through my inclination would be to say let's go back and do more construction projects let's you know get some of that equipment let's let's use it on sort of one time items to get state caught up in those areas because we won't necessarily be able to rely on that going into the future if on the other hand we start seeing program revenues coming back things get more normal our parking revenues come back our fees start coming back our rooms meals and alcohol then i would say then we should start building programs and services back and restore some of these positions because that's sustainable going into the future that's really the operating revenue so it's not strictly uh here if you have this money how would you use it it depends on the source of the money the duration of the money and of course then there's the whole if it's a grant for a certain purpose then obviously we would have to use it that's my seat of the pence answer to that question thank you if any of the other departments want to weigh in on that question or if you'd like to ask them as i said the police finance dpw and rack are the areas that we're holding positions in so if you'd like to ask any of them i think they're all here it's a maybe rack i've been resistant in the past to like support cutting any personnel in mpd and i have been because i've always thought it would be a cost shift to overtime it would hinder our ability to sort of walk a beat as we put some emphasis into um and it might result in officer burnout so if we leave the position vacant uh would it not do all those things even if we're not eliminating the position well i mean i can't i'll let the chief answer this but you know i can't say it wouldn't contribute to some of that as i said it's it's right now that's the current level we're operating at um um you know obviously we don't know what's going to happen long term with the school resource officer but without that position being dedicated to the schools right now she's essentially taking up that other patrol slot so we're our patrol slots are the same as they were but uh i see the chief fund i'll let someone more qualified than me answer i'm sure he'd like to have at least this well sir i i think that you you you've definitely hit on the head and i appreciate uh appreciate you sir having that concern because that's what uh the sergeants and the captain i've been talking about uh in a very stressful time right now there we're already having burnout and we're already having a morale um because of you know the current conversation and what we're trying to do uh to re get to reestablish trust within the community and it is going to and we're so we're trying to figure out a lot of ways that we can take the administrative lift off of the officers show them shoulder them as supervisors and get our officers to be up to be more visible but they're already working a lot of overtime um they're taking over shifts and uh it's been a it's it's been a been a challenge um and and i really commend them but at the same time other departments within the city uh are showing are showering a tremendous burden of self-life for example dbw uh their burnout their burnout rate and and how they're being stretched and uh and then the things that they're meaning so we're we're trying to figure out ways that we can all help each other out um uh due to the uh the decreased mania decrease funding that we're dealing with go ahead there connor so is it is the overtime taken into consideration with the amount we would reduce in personnel then yes sir that's one of the things i've been i've been looking at uh but i think that for the overtime budget itself to me it's uh this isn't a popular thing to say in this day and age but i think that the overtime is indicative of the need to add potentially additional personnel to me when i see overtime costs are going up and then i'm looking at who is taking the overtime what are we taking the overtime for uh things to that effect it's it's uh um yeah it's a political risky uh type of recommendation but yes i am looking at uh it substitutions for overtime and i'm looking at that but everything is balancing out at least in my eyes thank you and certainly keep us posted on on that okay um other questions that you all have i'm just coming back uh to war and did we um to be answer your question was your question answered pretty much i mean yes and i'm sure there's like a lot more detail right i mean i do work before the next meeting um if converse maybe they've already happened but you know i mean i know a lot of it's guesswork and we'll have to do that put the budget out before we'll have certainty um and in almost in all likelihood um but like getting a sense from um our federal and state legislative partners on like you know what are the most likely things that they're seeing like what is the conversation of what those um state and local grants are shaping up to be or how Vermont would be likely to actually handle that it would it be more likely the block grant like if we can get any clarity um just to to make sure that we're prepping in the right ways like you said i do think the one time the projects the construction projects and stuff make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons to try to get caught back up um probably almost no matter what the the scenario that would be the kind of like shovel ready thing that you could see money coming in for um and you know i really appreciate trying to hold on to the the staffing structure and levels for the city overall even with open positions for now but not but looking at holding them so that we're you know maintaining the services as best we can in the interim and then able to fill those as as resources come in really appreciate not trying to not using this moment to to shrink services that we're offering our community um so we'll just offer that as well another comment on hold on one second i don't i don't think lauren is done go ahead lauren one more one more quick thought just um so you know jack and i are serving on this uh committee that's really going to be digging into the the budget and what time is spent um with chief p and um the other people so you know i'm really looking forward to kind of to me like database decisions of allocation of resources and the right levels for our city and all of that you know i we just got underway so that's you know it's not ready for for right now um which i'm sure is frustrating for some people but you know i hope we do that well and right for the community and with lots of community input and um can hear a lot of perspectives and and look at that look at the data um to you know really make some well-informed and thoughtful decisions um you know as we move forward for the community great thank you um steven do you want to make a comment yeah i want to make uh i know many of y'all are probably tired of hearing we talk about the decades of neglected maintenance we have a problem with public works not about the department the department just needs greater support that uh i'm glad that lauren just made the comment about shovel ready projects i think we should put additional money in the budget for the survey so that we have we've got a new team in washington that's going to put big money behind infrastructure and the ready the further more ready we are with having already surveyed some of the projects we want to embark with uh would be we'd be better positioned to get early access to that money secondly we keep ignoring the fact that we do not have a plan to catch up we we've got a pipe break every few weeks which totally derails any efforts to catch up it demands all hands on deck and we're short hands so i'm watching this we're we're taking one step forward with thoughtful planning and you know guys engineering expertise in her team but we take two steps back we slide two steps back every time there's another pipe break so we we need to get a real serious commitment of funds and support and i believe that they are uh i i think they're discouraged and not really allowed to ask for what they need and i think that needs to change i think they need strong advocacy on the council to request and demand to see a plan and run by other engineers and make sure that it's climbing out of this hole but that's that's two things i mean uh i've got a lot given donna where there's plenty of lists around that having shovel ready projects and charging a path that's going to avoid this one step forward two slides back uh pattern that we're talking thanks madam mayor if i may um to that yes we have freed up surveying money in the capital plan um we talked about that i think at one of the earlier budget sessions i think when dpw was talking about the when they were doing the infrastructure update the need to be prepared for particularly the state street project and that that money is now in the cap it's included in the capital plan i didn't call it out specifically but it is in there in fact we had $50,000 that was being used for basically the offset one of the staff positions and we we've reallocated that that is what's used strictly for project management so for surveying and project prep so that's on the way and then the the water and sewer line uh and maintenance plan is actually in the water sewer budgets it's not in this particular plan so we'll be talking about those um we can go into detail the recent water breaks i think we're all very attributable to uh an incident not an incident but uh there was a shutdown at the water treatment plate which created a water hammer ring effect through which caused a series of breaks that were directly related to that um so somewhat unique in that particular case but we do have all lines and they do need to be replaced and um we we the council has approved a long plan to replace them so we can we can get in you know i don't want to shy away from that conversation but it's really more in the water and sewer budgets so if i if i can jump in yeah go ahead just to comment i do appreciate um the consideration um i think that we did um a good job um during our budget discussions about acknowledging that um we needed to cut a fair amount out of the budget we selectively chose what we were going to do um we looked at both this year and the upcoming year um project wise and staffing wise um we're in the process right now of being able to hire for three positions which will only leave two vacant positions in the upcoming fiscal year um i think um we'll be offering um a person one of those positions um in the upcoming week or two so we're on our way to rebuilding strategically some capacity in the department um i don't want to sound like i'm saying we don't need any um help or consideration but we're climbing back we've looked at the projects that we can undertake um we've looked at the fact that it's likely that if there's money coming from the federal government it'll be infrastructure related um and that will help us um we are out straight um on any given day because um we're short in the management um positions that we have by at least one one of those two people um that won't be replaced and so um the rest of us are taking on that work and we're trying to innovate at the same time um but um so i just i i just wanted to express those situations i feel really well supported by um bill and um and kelly in terms of looking at our budget and the other departments are um have all indicated that they will work with us and support us as we move forward and so um i i want to give you um this um perspective so that you know that um we've come together as um a group to look at the needs that the city will have and i think we're poised pretty well even though we're um under staffed and under resourced we're not in a desperate place at this point in time um certainly if anybody wants to suggest that we deserve to have more money or more staff sooner than later i'm not going to oppose that suggestion but um and we will have to um we will have to amend our plan for how we um um tackle and prioritize infrastructure work um in the coming year but um i i think we're in the best place we can possibly be for the circumstances we're facing right now thank you um jack and then i just want to be conscious of the time um and also acknowledge that we will likely have more conversation about the budget um in in done this is our last meeting in december is that right right so we'll have more conversation in january but jack go ahead thank you um not knowing anything about uh federal but federal grant uh allocations and how it works i would assume that when we're looking at what is a shovel ready project i would think that pretty high on the list would be the capital plan projects that we were not able to complete this year because of staffing cuts and so i think we're i agree that uh there's work that needs to be done and i i think it would be be easy to come up with a list and say if you give us the money we can start working on that as soon as the grant goes now i think that's right and you know the we're talking about the shovel ready projects because that was the um that was the key term in that you know the era funds in the obama era stimulus money but you know there's been no necessarily indication that that's what this money would be for this time around whether they would just be general grants to governments or or what um well i mean so far there hasn't been any indication any money at all is coming from washington um but maybe maybe a little now but um so so it's everyone's guess is as good as any but i think whether it's a requirement for a grant or just practically speaking right we have a lot of projects that we've planned to do that we put off and then we have a major sort of east state street water sewer road um cso you know major project uh which if there's going to be big money coming we'd love to get it for that so that's the one that we funded to make sure that all the surveying could be done and you know the early engineering could be done so we'd be ready to go if if suddenly some money came for that sort of thing okay well i think it's it's interesting too that we're kind of at the place where we're we're thinking about that that future money um and you know anticipating what that will look like and how we might how we might spend it um which i think tells me something about how people are feeling about uh this budget but i want to reserve that like we're not we're not yet done with with this budget and um and we'll have further conversation um about that in june right um so unless anybody has any final thoughts for this evening um we're going to move on uh bill go ahead so i just uh related to that our next meeting is the january 6th which really is a budget workshop only hopefully we may have a consent agenda but other than that there won't be anything else on the agenda the next regular meeting is the 13th so if there is you know whether you think of it now or but if there are specific pieces of information or questions you have or people you'd like to have present at the meeting or anything like that that you want on the 6th please let us know so we can be prepared to provide that because then you will be moving into public hearings so we want to make sure your we can answer all your questions or provide you know get get you whatever you need so just to be clear um the goal would be on the 6th to have a vote on the budget that we can then use to go into the public hearings correct what typically happens is the city council adopts a preliminary budget or you know the council's budget so it goes from being the manager's proposed budget to the council to the council's proposed budget to the residents voters um but then you have two public hearings on the council's budget and and you can change the budget based on those hearings or just on your own conversation so the one you vote on in the 6th isn't necessarily the one that goes to the voters the one that you vote on in the 21st is the one is the version that goes to the voters so so you have more you know in years past the council said well this is where we are let's just go with this but we still may change it but at least there's something that's got a preliminary this is what we're floating out there right okay um on the 6th and that's the one you want yeah uh jay go ahead yeah just a couple quick thoughts to follow up on the conversation it's been bouncing around a little bit but working my way back one is that um i wanted to to connor's question about the sRO and chief p just so folks know that committee has been working really hard in meeting meeting weekly um to to work through this process it's a large committee they're you know gathering a lot of community constituent feedback right now um and and sort of working towards being able to make a recommendation but ultimately what the committee will do is make a recommendation to the school board so don't expect a decision to be to be made on that quickly ultimately from from a budget perspective it's you know we contribute to half that position of course there's variability in the role that that position plays whether they're in the schools or are a patrol you know just out on patrol um but as we talk about the the budget moving forward don't expect um uh just any sort of decision to be made um in in the near future that would impact uh what we're talking about um uh and and you know ultimately leave it leave it to the chief and bill and others to to figure out how to best manage that process and then go and wait go and wait back a little bit i just two quick points and then a question around the mdc one is um i i think it is important to acknowledge that while my pillar alive um managed the the the business consultant who helped all the downtown businesses the mdc did helped fund that position so they did they did play a role there um and they looking ahead though i think it's important to know that right now the mdc is part through one of their through their through a project manager is working with my pillar alive to create a grant program to help bring new businesses downtown to fill some empty storefronts so they are engaged you know via my pillar you're alive as we look you know to you know new year's day and beyond um so they're doing work on you know on behalf of of our businesses and so i don't want folks to think that there there's nothing happening there but to to go back to what bill was saying in terms of timeline um i'm curious thoughts on how how do we engage with mdc ahead of that january six or whatever date that meeting that was so we have an understanding of sort of where they're at what they're working on in this current fiscal year and then what they might do beyond because if they're not here tonight and i just want to make sure that they have an opportunity to give to have a voice before we're moving before we you know you know we're moving forward in terms of uh a council endorsed budget so i'm just curious thoughts on what's the best way to do that and i'm you know happy to you know communicate that what we think is best for that process yeah actually bill cappell and i exchange messages today trying to get in touch before tonight's meeting we just missed each other um so you know sort of actively looking to have that conversation uh i i was planning to invite them make to make sure make to make sure they weren't specifically invited for the sex um and i already got a request from one council member uh to to make sure that we did that um and i think if they can maybe provide any advanced information about what they're working on that would be really good i just wanted to make sure we had that covered thank you thank you um lauren did you have something just directly on that point i would love if you could encourage like a memo laying out if they got funding exactly what they would do with it i mean i think part of my lack of enthusiasm at this moment is i feel like there hasn't been great transparency or understanding or documentation of um what has been spent so i would just love like if we if we're gonna have taxpayers put dollars in like where exactly is it gonna go and you know i think they very well could make a compelling case but i would just love to see that in writing before the sixth so we have that information to to chew on great thanks all right as if there's no um further comments um for now on on the budget then i think we'll we'll move on uh to council reports and for this i um i'm gonna start with donna unless you would like me to not start with you donna i'm fine i have a one short thing central mont public safety authority received two proposals in response to our rfp so we're reviewing their telecommunication needs assessment proposals tomorrow night and we also have set a time aside next thursday if we need it so we we hope to at least have a good solid opinion of who we want to interview and we're also considering contracting to have a project manager that will be overseeing the consultant work since we have no staff so that's the latest update uh great connor all right a couple things um i did send language to ann john and bill today um just on retail cannabis um it is required i did some research by statute to have a vote by the full municipality on australian ballot uh the decisions of uh who actually gets dispensaries would be made in the second half of 2022 but there are a number of advantages doing a town meeting day 2021 as opposed to 22 as far as thinking ahead as far as zoning you know different investments so we're definitely like to have a discussion of the meeting prior to january 26 we don't have to get into it now um we'll just let you know that that's been sent i can send the whole council that language i guess if we don't discuss it over email um so that's one thing i guess i just want to disclose i'm doing a little work with uh cv fiber for community engagement um doing surveys with canvassers uh a company i have uh bid on an rfp and it was the only bid i think uh but i do want to be cognizant that we do appoint a member to the cv fiber board there so i just want to be transparent on that so that's it for me thanks very much great uh jay just uh you know just like last week i just reminder if you if you have some thoughts around the sro position there's still time to fill out that survey i'd appreciate it um and that's it thanks great dian thanks just just a quick um there was an incident last saturday where there was a rally at the state house and uh uh minor was involved in the incident and i know there's been a lot of talk around uh on facebook and various posts um you know as whether the council's going to take it up and i i think it's important that um uh chief pete and the montpellier police are investigating it so it really wouldn't be appropriate for us as a council to take up that issue however you know i did talk with bill and it seems like what one thing we really probably want to encourage um is if the state with my understanding is that the state receives permits if somebody wants to hold a protest or if somebody wants to have a rally or something some event at the state house um and they don't necessarily communicate to the city each and every time um and it would it would certainly i think be a good message for the city to consider sending to the state to say you know if there are incidents particularly in this polarized time and era um so that you know our police force or city services are aware of it and can schedule and react accordingly because i think one of the things that that did come out of that incident was that you know the police were not necessarily aware of of the rally i may be getting that wrong but um you know they weren't necessarily aware that it was it was occurring and so you know we we don't necessarily staff appropriately if if uh if we're not aware of it so it seems like that a better communication with the state would be important that's all thanks um any comments um if not that's fine all right i know i apologize about that you know we we are uh doing our best to make sure that we we continue on with um having our dialogue with the state in regards to um to these events what caught us off guard is that uh we weren't expecting we didn't have an indication that there might have been a population there that uh that that would bring this type of of of of an incident and it's one again it's on our agenda to discuss later on this week next week with bill uh with the rest this with the state and um but again but next week we're starting to hear rumblings on social media that now they want other people there that the trump supporters come back uh that so we're we're planning for it logistically for this weekend first of mine thank you um that before the election the chief briefed you about these type of incidents might be happening and um but what their plan was and in this particular case as i understand we didn't know that a primary issue for state house grounds and what it was for so now we know thank you uh dan not dan check um not much to report but i will say having uh heard the commentary about needing uh to call on people to cover the uh mowing of the rec field that i have never actually operated a rioting long mower but i can imagine some sunny day this summer that if if the need arises i could be uh persuaded to give it a try we could we could park's employee to supervise you too that's right yes and that's all i've got uh loin uh yeah thanks um only thing i just wanted to maybe get on our radar for a future meeting i would just love to check in on the winter parking van i know that was a big change and there's been some you know dialogue on front porch forearm and all that and just was bringing my kids to school the other day and it was a street that there were like four cars with tickets on it and i was like how is this going exactly so we just love to kind of see get the update from um our public works crew um you know maybe that one of those january meetings or something um unless there's like a quick update that i see donna i know donna has been really checking it almost daily and she's on maybe she can give you the short version now and then we can do i think we're going to do a more complete version once we've had a month or two experience with it but donna do you want to sure thanks um so i think that uh we've been making substantial progress um zack and i have been driving around we did not we took a break this week but um we had spent the last three or four weeks driving around every morning looking at all the streets making sure people were parked on the right side of the road um we saw substantial progress being made um as we went through those few weeks um we did leave um warning tickets with no um cost associated with them on people's windshields um i have to say that zack um is amazingly committed to this endeavor and if he saw a person parking on the wrong side of the road he would stop the car jump out with a ticket run up have a conversation change the person's entire perspective about what was going on the following day we might see that car on the right side of the road so um so i think it's been very effective um we do have um a couple of areas where there seem to be a lot of individuals who choose to park there as they're coming into town and they're not necessarily residents and that's where we're um having more of the concerns right now and people who might come in um we have um you know um uh small businesses who are doing work at people's homes or fuel um folks parking the cars on the or trucks on the wrong side of the road so we're working hard on that um and i do have to thank the police for also um helping us um sort of um help people in the community understand what's going on we have changed a few um conditions on some streets um like Baldwin street we realized that having people move from one side to the other when nobody's ever moved to the other side of the street ever in the history of um the city of Montpelier was just a silly idea um so we went back and just changed that to let everybody just stay on one side of the road um and um so i'm you know the number of tickets we've handed out has diminished um and so i think um we're in good shape for next week when we're going to actually start issuing um real citations to people um and we'll see where we get and um it will help tremendously if we start to get some um snow actually falling and and we can start plowing and then i think people will understand the whole rationale for this so um i i've been very um happy with the outcome that we've had and and to see people accommodating um the situation thank you for that thorough impromptu report i appreciate it super helpful um my only last thing i just like once again me it's been such a hard year and i'm just so continually impressed with the dedication of our staff and all the department heads coming together putting together a really tough budget everyone figuring out how to pitch in across departments and making it work and the like amazing positive upbeat attitudes everyone's like bring into the the team every day and just huge kudos to the staff and to the management and just keeping our city on course during incredibly challenging time so just appreciation to everyone yeah agreed um all right uh so i just have a couple of things so one is the energy committee received a number of responses to their rfp to put together a net zero um 2030 plan uh for the city and they'll be reviewing those rfps tomorrow so hopefully they will be coming out of that with some uh suggestions um and i think actually that might be uh the only update i i have for now so i'm gonna with that i'm gonna pass it off to john all good here got nothing okay uh bill just quickly um i thought this was gonna go in the weekly report but it didn't so i'm gonna embarrass the chief and i might need his help here police chief um you may recall one of the things that we talked about as being a high priority for our department was this crisis intervention training c it and the chief's been a big advocate for it in his former position and coming here and there's been a national board being formed to sort of look at best practices and our chief got named to it as one of the members of the process uh and so maybe you want to tell us a little bit about that i'll appreciate it sir um it's so it's basically um it's it's c it international c it stands for crisis intervention team uh currently i don't think there's a c it program in um we don't have a program in the state of vermont we do have a handful of officers trained i think there's one agency that's doing it but uh it's c it a national that the job or the the goal of the organization is to spread and to advocate pretty much for mental health and and de-escalation and how we uh as first responders uh work in these these types of uh crisis situations so uh it's going to be great i think it's a three-year term and it's a working board member so i'm hoping that to build a lot of bridges develop a lot of relationships and seeing what resources we can bring back to not only the city but the state as a whole so i was very honored and blessed to be part of it so it was an application and selection process so we're very happy that our little part of the world and our great chief got got picked so that's my report for the week they were i told the police to put in the weekly report and it didn't make it so they don't brag that way i'll brag on you so well congratulations uh that is phenomenal so that's all i have so great um all right well i think that is it and at least it's not as late as last time uh so i'll i'll take it and um have a happy holidays everybody i'll see you in january without objection consider the meeting adjourned this is too long between meetings maybe we should can get get another one probably well just for fun see you next year see you bye good night have a good night