 Welcome to Toffey TV, today I am joined by a man who played 154 games for Everton and scored 25 goals and he wasn't a centre forward. It is Derek Montfield, Degsy, how are you? Not bad, how's that you fella? I'm looking at your look on the haircut by the way mate. I know, look at it, you know what? You know what's worrying about it? It's getting more and more admitted mainly every day. I don't think I could pull that haircut you've got off there. Mine's a lockdown man, I told the wife to get her number 5 and take it all off so she did. I don't mind it, I'm sure you're going to grow back in it. To be fair, yours looks better than mine anyway, let's leave it there. It's not off though, is it really? No, no it's not, alright. I've been on two minutes of you think you're having a pop. Degsy, let me take you back to when you were a youngster. How did your football career begin before we come on to Everton? Football, well it wasn't just football for me, it was a kid that was sporting. It wasn't football of his rugby, cricket, basketball, tennis, golf. I played everything, I just enjoyed sport. I hated the education times, school, but the sports times. Where people live for the bell to go home, I live for the bell to go and play football in the video door, getting the basketball courts or something. As a youngster, I started playing football in the garden, in the road, in the street, in the backfield. I started playing for the team and I was round about, let's see, about nine or ten of things. In those days, there wasn't many four, five, six, seven-year-old teams. You can start playing football to you in nine, ten, sometimes eleven. I started playing, playing for the school team, playing for the local team, and eventually moved to a bigger team in the local area. But at 15, my main sport was rugby, rugby union. I was a fullback for the school and I came in the summer of 78 into school from last year. I'm just told the teacher, I'm not playing rugby this year, to which he blew his gasket saying, you're playing for the treasure cool boys squad and you go for union school board driver, and okay, I'm not playing rugby. And since that day in September 78, I've had one game of rugby. To this day, I love watching it. I love the brutality because it's out of it, but I haven't played rugby since, and four months after making that decision in September, in January 79, I was asked to go to try Alex, haven't I? So if I haven't stopped playing rugby, whether I play football, I'll never know. But I think I've had a pretty decent decision, but the teacher still says I gave up the wrong sport. He said I should have stopped playing rugby because he was adamant I was good enough to go on to play for my country. But no, football took me at the age of 16, really, when I joined Tramiwth. I mean, what was that like? I mean, big evidence on it when you're a kid anyway. But what was it like going and becoming a footballer at Tramiwth? Especially, like you just said, only really starting footy. Seriously, that year? I didn't really start football seriously. I was still playing regular football for the school team and a Sunday league team. But the big thing was, at the age of 13 and a half, when you were 14, the manager of the first group, James United, I called Dave Puddle, where I said he'd find another cup on Sunday morning and I turned up and he walked over and said, there's your share, you're playing centre back today. And I went, you want a centre forward? I've been up front for the last three years for you. He went, no, I'm going to change you two round the centre forward at the centre off and I went the other way round and I never moved forward again. So if Dave hadn't given me that chance, I might never have been a centre off. But football was my life growing up in the main sport. But I just loved every other sport I could play in. During the 70s, my friends and I used to go to Trevor on a regular basis during the season to get in the street end and we both remember, all of them, the sort of latch get me 30th goal, Kingie scored against Liverpool, the 2-1 victory in the FA Cup, the semi-final, big games, Bolton, and all those games I went to, I looked back and think, well, we love to play on that pitch. It was brilliant, wasn't it, just walking out. And I didn't know what had happened within five years of leaving school. I had a sigh for Eddart and I'd made me mark in the first year when I played in a cup final. Again, I looked back with immense pride, but also there was an awful amount of luck involved in the sport. But football growing up was the game to play. Going to Tramlia at the age of 16 was quite intimidating because I was still very, very raw as an adult. I was growing up and then walking to Tramlia's ground on day one with a little bag with me boots in and me shin pads and everything else. And I could hear from people talking in it in a little room at the top of the stairs by the tumble of the Tramlia where the same Johns used to come right on matchdays and popped me out of that red head down the corner and, well, you want some this voice in the corner, though, and I'm going, I'm here for a third trial. I didn't know at the time, but it was going west and west he calls me over and says, come here, son, he's got a fag in his hand like this and he's got his muggy too like that and he's going, come here, come here. See that part in the corner? Fill mine up, don't take any sugar. Make yourself fun and come and sit down. So my first introduction to have been an apprentice footballer was having a half an hour chat with Gordon West, who my granddad and my dad talked about, then became really good friends with Westy and I look back with immense amount of pride. He was the character, he was brilliant, but I then spent, well, 12 months climbing trades and apprentices doing all those horrible dirty mucky jobs and then in the, in those days, it wasn't the scholarship way to bring in 50 kids knowing, unfortunately, that maybe 12 will make it. Charlie had to pick one person, so Johnny King and the schoolboy team obviously decided that I was the person he wanted to take and all big thanks to Johnny King, I know he's long and career, but without Johnny making that decision to give me the apprenticeship, I might not be a Sydney talking football now, but he had to give three months written notice that you would be kept on and released at the end of your apprenticeship. So my birthday is November, so I got me a letter three months before and I've got a pro contractor, I was delighted, going from £20 a week to £30 a week and not having to do those dirty toilets was lovely. But a month before I was signed pro, Johnny King got sat and I was up in limpo then thinking, will they renegade on the offer? I don't know, but luckily for me, Brian Alton came in and he, yeah, contract stays in place and within eight months, he'd offered me another year's contract, he'd only signed a year's contract and he gave me a debut, a debut became three games, then I got dropped, then I got back in the side and I didn't know that at the end of the summer of 82 when we just about scraped back instantly by the re-election process family that the phone call came from, I was talking to Howard Kennelden two weeks later and signed the contract, I can't ever tell you. To this day, it still seems very, very surreal that it happened so quickly to me. I mean, how did that come about then? So you've played games for Tram here and like you say, you've got to the end of the season and I know, me and you, you've had this chat and you've told me, but just for anybody who hasn't heard it, how did it come about? You look through all these football teams now and I did myself, we went away to Malaysia to Australia to Canada and all these exotic places but Tram here we go to every season for three days, end of the season we always went to Blackpool, sunny old Blackpool on it and we always ended up going, we always went Thursday Thursday Friday, Wednesday, Thursday Friday and came back on Saturday and we all sat together in the local support club to watch the FA Cup final. So I turned up on the Thursday and he was with me back in the end but we go and do a bit of training on the pitch ready to go from there in the cars up to Blackpool and I just put in and thought, Brian how much of a shout is over from the tunnel? Derek, I need to talk to your son. I saw a job over and wondered what I'd done thinking I'm in trouble here or something, I don't know and he says we agreed to sell you and I went, oh, I got from loving it he said, I went, who is it that you would ever military bought a phone like that, it's glued to me here very quickly and other members how a candle are half expected one of the laughs to be in the office take it a piss on me thinking we've got him here getting the meal, pops out and goes we've got you Howard said, we've been in a contract we had a deal we like you and I since found out that I was Howard's number one choice via two or three different sources they had a good luck with me Ken Macnorth has to say he was speaking to Howard in the summer of 82 when he was at a billet and Howard said no, I've got me on a young kid at Charmere it turns out it was me I found out that the cheese scout saw me numerous times and everyone came back as possible so Howard plumped for me I joined Edd at what I thought was a whopping salary £125 a week when he'd gone from £30 a week at Charmere it's quite an increase and I just went there after signing the contract believing that I didn't really belong there because I remember going from the first game Howard said, can you come over to Bellefield and we're going to take it away we're going to play a game and I'll have a look at it in a game and I remember coming to Bellefield and walking into the upstairs kitchen area and there's more kicking and there's mith clients there's Neville there, the steamer and I'm thinking, I've been watching you I've done the terraces over this season because Charmere played a lot of games on Friday and I used to go sackies I don't feel right I feel so strange being in this room with people I pass as my legends my heroes don't ever show me in them we went off to Preston and we get to Preston on the bus and we go into the changing rooms Howard said, I'll look at the pitch boys we all go out but that's great, they're talking to me they're trying to relax me and reassure me don't try and just do what you normally do we don't know what you like but we call in and Howard names the team and I'm playing I think I'm actually at number 5 I can't actually remember it and I froze I just sat there going what do we do now because I didn't, I've always been changing for 3 years I didn't know how to get out I'm just sitting inside into a football kit to go and play a game and Howard, he's taken a tie I saw a copy of people taking clothes off I ended up getting into the shorts my t-shirt and socks I went down to get my boots and I went, where's my boots I actually left my boots on the coach because you get, so you used to put your boots in a skit for you they've taken off the bus and I had mine in the bag and I literally forgot my boots so I said to my king where's the coach? he said, I've left my bag on the boot go outside there you'll see a guy called Jimmy the Donzo we call and the bus driver, Jimmy Martin he won't miss it, I said why that we called him Donzo for a reason so I found Jimmy, he got my boots and got on with the game it was a test moment I think we lost it 3-1 you come off and you're disappointed but I've worn my head in a match so I'm quite proud quite happy and we get on the bus and on my way home Howard sits at the front with his regular glass of wine and he leans around and says I feel good down here so I went and sat by Howard and he's sitting there with a glass of copies of that glass of wine, once on I said no it was going to be okay it was Mr Kenny in those days I was still in order the fella and he goes, quite impressed I've got to see him, we'll be in touch and literally it was a week before he got back in touch literally sat by the phone in the hallway for a week and to everybody in his phone calls that wasn't for me and I honestly thought I'd blown it and when the phone call came it was like yes please we're back to Bellefield Medical back to Gwreston, signed a contract summer to week back home Dad and another Tony and another one to play and it was, wow it finally sank in when you start looking at you're talking to your mates in the papers that Everton signed Tramius, Youngster, Mountfield and they go and is it too? Yeah I've never been playing now I'm 19 and I'm thinking what do we do, what do we do so I remember going away for a test I'm not a test with it, and you talked to Gromigil McBallans, Richard was there Gary was there Dick Stewartburn was there and it's too late, so I went over to Gromigil where he won the tournament I expected when the letter came about pre-season starts on X day I had to take myself fit so I spent days and days on the promenade and you brightened down the promenade Tramiul looked at it in the sandbill so it did a bit of sandbill work and it ran and it ran and it ran and it came in to the first day pre-season training and Howard went here's the ball boys we do pre-season with the ball I'm going what 10 days it was just run run run and Howard just was totally different to everything I had done before in football his methods were different his training was different and you know I spent a year learning the training under I think the greatest coach of the way I've done because he was his air team manager so I didn't go straight in the first team I went into his airs and I spent time with Colin working on my game he made strengths even stronger he made me weaknesses into strengths and he worked on me regularly two afternoons a week giving the young kids back and that until he got his team it wasn't the first team and Kevin Richardson we worked and we worked we worked with the senior players remember spending hours and hours hours with Simon Steeler keeper punting bullwars down the pitch and me and Nick Ferris and jumping against each other trying to win headers off him all the time so he put me under situations where I was under pressure I had an air finder on that video and one on one so I had my name scope doing the same so my education was working with experienced players and there's nothing better than that and I think that I came out after the first season of Everton with one game under me belt away it's Birmingham in April a far better player when I arrived a year earlier and the following season was for me was just pinching myself I did the first two games where Kevin got sent off at Warsaw pre-season so I played two games then I got back into the stands and then bit by bit Mark Higgins unfortunately was caught up with his injuries and I ended up getting to the side alongside Mark because people forget that when I first got to the side Kevin was at left back and Mark was my centre of partnership so it wasn't so Mark's last three games for Everton I was his part of the centre of and without Mark's very very very unfortunate injury there might not be a good amount of up here now so Mark's misfortune became my fortune and when you get the chance to put on the number five shares with Everton badge on it you don't mess it around you don't flow it away you grab it by the short and careless and you do what you can to stay in that side so I think it did that pretty well for the first 18 months two years of my time there but that three games under Mark were brilliant he was a fantastic leader he really was a leader of men and unfortunately for Mark he got dropped he lost his base of his injury Kevin came back to right to centre and John Bailey came back at left back with Neville behind didn't change above them for John Bailey for about two years and we got such a good understanding going but without Mark he was a very unfortunate injury he was a good friend of mine talking regularly and I set this on doing talkies in the room without Mark's misfortune it might not be a day it could have been more than Kevin and Derek it's about taking those chances and just going back to that obviously you've just talked me through that fair season because I was going to ask what it was like coming in and how did you build up to it what was it like making your debut at Robert Hopkins go to win and we lost at 1-0 but what was it like making your debut for Evan and what it was then the first division wasn't it and did that feel for the Nevitronian it's when you first announced in the squad my first season at Everton I said it was a massive learning process and I remember going to it switch it's on the first ever squad squad so how it was with the squad about 14 down with it maybe 15 was once up with it's arm you all took at least two other players just in case there was an illness overnight and how it never changes routine so I used to watch that I'd leave it at 12 o'clock 1 o'clock on a Friday lunchtime going to the way games and we were still playing prepared the old Central League which was played on a Saturday anyway and I got the call to go to it switch and I think Howard did it the longest game, longest the way to be cut to so many cups of coffee I could make on the way to half of Irish people it's your debut your first time making up with easy coffees for the boys I was back and forth making tea coffee for lads on the way down I was thinking I might be on the bench now he didn't put me on the bench but it was Howard's way of introducing it to the squad my partner's squad now so you come down then I went to Brighton and I was on the bench never played, never got on and about two weeks or two or three games later I played down at Birmingham and it's again Howard was very clever he didn't always tell you were playing he didn't let the nerves build up on the Friday afternoon to say you're playing tomorrow and you're at home going oh I'm playing, see what am I going to do he did it so he said right you're in the squad but I'll have to say you're going to play tonight because I think Mark was into it he's not right he's got to play he's got to play me and then Howard never met the name of the team until about quarter to two two o'clock on the Saturday whenever he got to the game and you're playing and that's when you don't get the nerves didn't get a chance to sit in with me it was like just going to your job Howard was great but Colin and Robbie came over out of chat and looked so we know what you can do keep doing what you can do with me and you won't be far wrong, just keep doing what you're doing there to head it was there to tackle these in the way, kick him as well Colin was great he reassured me I wish it had been in the void of blue it was in the white heaven the white umbraw it was a nice kick the white umbraw the big thick Colin on the neck I went and Dapideg you and reports were very very good Howard was pleased Colin was delighted he's not done too badly so of course I'm playing next week get back in the stands how I said you've had your game now, you're still there in your trade so I went back in the stands but it gave me a bit of an appetite but to make you debut if you teach both of your life it was unbelievable the feeling I got when I actually put the shirt on for the first time I never put the shirt on until just before we were going out of the tunnel out of the changing rooms the last thing I put on, everything I was on but you got the badge on the shirt and you warmed up and had it on top but when you actually go and you put the shirt over your head and you can see the badge on your chest that's when it really hit me that I've got to go and do it now and I'm never going to play it now it's my debut and you don't want to let yourself down but one report you don't want your teammates and the fans down but you can be a bit selfish sometimes but we weren't allowed to be it's not about me it's about the team, it was perfectly clear and you see that in all the talk about the 85 squad it was about the team it wasn't my individual and Colin was great at that to this day I could spend hours in Colin's company I think he's a fantastic person his coaching was top notch we just made him feel so comfortable he made me feel so relaxed and we lost the game late to a Robert Hopkins goal and I remember right I think Jim Arnold got injured in the challenge with Robert Hopkins I think he did his thigh muscle I remember driving home on the coach and the coach actually came off at Stafford and drove into this housing estate in Stafford to drop Jim Arnold because he had a big bandage on his thigh but it was a joy making me debut it was brilliant I didn't expect to play and do what I did over the coming two and a half three seasons I would say that you've won the evidence share once and you've made your debut and you've played in the first team that was brilliant but it was the nerve wrth in time but it was the nerve wrth in time made a lot more easy by the people around and that was the beauty of the land at the time they made sure nobody was under pressure and it was brilliant Rachliff your partner at that night just checked on the air I thought I thought it was wrapped so obviously you think I've done okay, I might stay in the team but then you don't get the start of the next season so 83-84 I mean what's that like you're not in the team you don't get in the side until the 19th of November I played the first two games of season against West Ham and Stoke if you look at the records we got beat at all by West Ham wasn't it because you've been Stoke lost 1-0 to West Ham but we've been away at Little Shaw for about 10 days and in those days there wasn't the five subs so every game we was like 11 players in it we had a couple of knock-up knock-ups at Little Shaw we've been to play a a Telford game and we were just on and off and how I had to name two teams I want to go to Walsall to play against Walsall I want to go to Boreen and there was about 20 players at Little Shaw and they named 13 it was 13 to go to Walsall and I was in that squad I was in the squad to go back up to play in Boreen so there's two, the boot was split in 13 or 14 to go on that where you'll just sit yourself and go up to Boreen but he also named the squad to go to Holland on the Monday on that Friday night and I wasn't initially in the squad to go to Holland so I was going to stay with Colin at Bellfield while Mick Eaton and Howard took the lads away to Holland so Walsall the lads went there, I can't remember the score but Ken Rath got sent off in the preseason match which meant he was then going to miss the first two games of the season I went to Noreen, scored two and a two and he'll win coming Sunday morning to be told by the lads you go into Holland I said I'm not in the squad, you've got to go because Rath's called by a Wembley at the first two games by this time you'd remember that when I first came to the club there was Mark Higgins, Kevin McCliff, Mick Walsh Billie Wright and then me and then he broke in here in the middle of it at the end of that first season Billie Wright went, Mick Walsh went so it was Kevin, Mark and then me right behind him he went to Holland he's gone by the way and he added me to the squad I remember and if I'm not going, I can't remember if I'm in the right or not I went to Holland, had four games came back, played the first two Rath's suspension is over and back in the stand again I've been pushing to set me a season we are the time, it cuts off so often in the stand up, at the early on and I just got on playing football with Colin because Colin was not involved in the first TV Cywp di'n gallu'n dweud i'n gweithiofa am i ac Mark, neu gennym eu maen nhw? Mae i gael 2 o 3 gadoedd, a ddim e wedi gweithio'n i West Ham a Fy Sen, Flo am y crfodd, ac maen nhw'n glwlla chi am y golladeith o'r gyllid yn chymlau ennill, ac o'r berthynai ei gweld i'r fath. Fu'r cymdweithio, mae'n gweld i'n gweld! Mae'r gweld i'n gweld i'n gweld i'n gweld i'n gweld! West Ham y gweith, ac mae'n anodd storod, Byddai hynny straffoddo'r gweithio i mi arweig, fel Gweithio'r iawn. Yei, gyddo'r gwahod gyda'r gofyn o gweld, sy'n gweithio eich gweld. Ond dyna'r gwaith am wneud o gweld ei bod yn eich cynnig i ddedig ynghylch gan Chami oobers, a'r model gyda'r ganwch ar hyn o'r ffordd ymlaen i'ch cyfrifent. Yn fwyaf i'r gweithio efallai, Ac yn hynny i ni, a'n eich starp, ond o gyfer yn grwng chipau. They were the ones that I want to start to get a feel like I'm getting this first team. I still thought I was always going to get axed again, just how it was, you know. But, you know, I got in the first team and we went through that really sticky patch of Christmas. You don't want to talk about the problems you're getting. I was going to come on to that. I mean, you got in. You got in the side of the Arsenal game. You were never back out of it for the rest of the season. Which is incredible. After we won 1-0 at Old Trafford, it was West Ham then in the replay. Mark Higgins played in that, but that was the last game. So, what was the last game West Ham was in? The replay, we beat them 2-0, Andy King and Seed in the next of the time. And then that Mark played that night, but then he didn't play again. It was you and that's then for Ville around. And when I'd done Andy Gray the other week, I asked him what his face was. He couldn't remember and it was that. An injury time equaliser against Ville. I doubt score for Ville, actually. Andy Gray scored the equaliser, an injury time. We'd had like a mini revival. You got in and then we hit a wall again. We had a couple of draws. The 2-0 nils at home were horrific. We had the covers being slumbling. And we got battered at Wolves. Yeah, in between that was that. Shocker at Wolves, wasn't it? It's what I mean. We were going through a bad spellwork. We were lacking in a degree conference at the time. And then there was this big campaign by the fans, Kendall Musco, Sack the Board, Kendall Cartey, Gotta Go, blah, blah, blah. But Howard, to his credit, never let that get to him. Philip Carter, brilliant person, was staunch in support of Howard Kendall. We're going to turn it round. I remember them two games over the Christmas period. Nil-nil against Coventry on Boxing Day or Sunderland on Boxing Day. We'd go to Wolves, the following game, we'd get battered 3. We were awful at Wolves, got battered 3-nil. I remember Wayne Clarke coming up a couple of years later saying, you were the worst team we'd see when you came up to us on Boxing. You were a shocker, he said. And then we'd come back and have another nil-nil draw. And that's it. I remember, I said to somebody, I went to that game, did you do that, did you throw your cushion? No, so I've still got somebody's cushion in me, but in my house somewhere. In those days, there was cushion to understand the time. In the main stand. Oh, God, it was dreadful awful. I can remember directly, don't worry. Oh, hey. You were on the pitch getting the abuse out of the way. You would look, you would throw the abuse at me. I was on the street and giving it. I remember, and then we went to Birmingham. I think it was the second attack already. Low on confidence in shit now. I think Birmingham thought, yeah, we can get three points comfortably at the time or two points it was at the time on it. And we had, it was one of the times, you got the number five ratio behind you. We actually were planning to wear the whole grey kit. That game. So as captain, rats has to go and they change you. The referee's really looking with the manager and they exchange the team sheets and the referee checks it, he says, blue, white, blue, he says silver. Yep, no problems, off you go. So we go out and warm up, we go on our shorts on our socks on our evidence training socks. I'm warming up, we come back in and literally 15 minutes before kick-off there's a knock on the door. Up the door, referee comes in. Mr Kendall, you can't wear that shirt, that kit tonight. It's good to clash with the blue under the lights. How good? What are you on about? It's good to clash so we can't wear it and some wisecrack at the back there, probably Andy Gray never would. He's tonight for us, then. He says, no, I've got it all sucked in. What's in with Bairman City's Awake It? Did you check the good news? We're wearing yellow, blue, yellow and it's Bairman's Awake It and I think that's it ever an Awake It. We didn't lose for about 21 games after that. So I always say Bairman City's Awake It was at the start of our turnaround. But you get these up, that was was that a Monday night or something? That was a Monday night, wasn't it? That idea was a way of stoking the FA Cup third round. So we've got that all-important victory. We get to Victoria Ground and there must have been 7,000, 8,000 of fans at Victoria Ground, didn't it? It used to be anyway. We've been out warmed up. The fans are quite happy. We've had it when we've given a little bit of a taste now but it's the FA Cup. Everyone loves the FA Cup. And then we come in and the team talk and the noise outside was incredible and I would literally open the window and then listen to that, do it for them boys. And that basically was his team talk. We went 2-0 or 2-1. 2-0, 2-0, yeah. I mean we've got 2 games on the round to come on boys. This is good doing well yet. And the momentum just kept going. People talk about Andy Grey, Peter Ead, coming home. But I came in. I think Andy came in really one game. Andy the next game, Andy the next game. The three of us came in with about three games of each other. And I get no credit at all. All of you are mixed together. But it was just that little bit of belief. How had never ever changed his philosophies, never changed his outlook, his attitude? He was always positive that he did it and training round on the team talks. It's just sometimes it doesn't work out. Whereas nowadays Howard was given the opportunity to turn it around. He wouldn't in today's situation. He couldn't find out how it would have been set long before we got that winner against Birmingham. All credit to the people around at the time. You gave managers time to build a team. To work out what you need to do. But in today's situation Howard wouldn't have lasted more than two seasons because he didn't have a great start to his timing ever. But, you know, Birmingham City awake it. Thank you very much. You turned us around. We got us on a bit of a run. Off we went. That's the game. I always pointed to the Birmingham game because having been at Godderson a few days before for that Coventry game and then knowing we had two bad away games. And then watching the team from Coventry at home to stoke away. Because the victory game was horrible. It was an horrible place to go. A truck place to go. To win there too. Nill Andy Graynail and everything. If I had come away from that with my dad and my brother and my kids it was just amazing. And we actually went to Stoke the week later and drew on one in the league. We had the week later as well. Drew on each in the league. Obviously Oxford the way was massive and Peter Eid, Preston, Kevin Brock into the back pass and then we batted Oxford 4-1 in the replay. If I say to you, the 11th of February West Brom away does it make you think of anything or do you know what I'm talking about? Yes it does. The first ever goer in the Royal Blue. Was it white back then? I think yellow probably West Brom. I remember it. I saw the Sheesh Cross at the top corner. I've not seen a goal since. I've not seen it since. I've got one little grainy picture of it at the ball 20 feet away from the head but I've not seen a goal since. I remember she's put it in. That's the third time I've played against Syrah Regis and they would say, look where you do he's a tough player. Just look after him. Don't kick him. Don't get him angry. Don't kick him. Don't kick him. Don't get him angry. Had a good part with Syrah on more than one occasion became very good friends with Syrah because I played with Bella and Wolves. Fantastic person. Sadly missed but probably at the time early in the career probably one of the toughest players I've played against because he was powerful. He was fantastic. The goal was my first. You dream is to make your debut. You make your debut. Can you score a goal? Can you keep your place in the side? Can you score a goal? Can you try and win something with the club? In my first season I didn't do too bad. I'm going to say your checklist. Your checklist was all right. There was big ticks across everything. Big ticks across everything. If you go to the side and then hopefully you try and win something if you look back to that Christmas in 83 you said about the Coventry so the Coventry Wolves from the game it was and then bear me them away. You just said that from the 2nd of January to the middle of May when they cut 4-0 don't be silly. They're not that good but all of a sudden it clicked. It jelled. We kept a pretty settled side for back 4 became settled which I think is so important in a football team. Reedy started putting his stamp on the place and grew and grew it again. She was just opening cans of beans with his left foot, he was that good. In she was playing sentiment field at the time. She was in this field at the time and Britsha would come in. Up front we had Sharpie and Andy we had Trevor, Teddy Cuddle and Andy Gray, Teddy Cuddle and Sharpie actually semi-final it was highly Sharpie who was on the bench. I think Sharpie played I think Teddy Cuddle played a member. The forward line Howard was still drinking with but he got the back line pretty much sorted. I always say that if you get the back defence sorted if you stop conceding goals it's easy to win games and that's one of our issues we conceding too many goals we conceded one goal we got to get two to win it you conceded two you got to get three to win it we started conceding very very few goals and that makes it easier to go on the offensive and start scoring more goals than winning games. If you look through I mean just going through that season obviously we had the villa win the semi-final you know tune a la Roman and then we go down there and you know we lose one little ride out but we hang on and there was just little pointers we played obviously Liverpool were incredible at this time a bit like they're looking like they are now but we had them a few weeks before the milk-off final a la Roman and Sharp missed the pen but then I won because I was an absolute cracker of a volley at the street end past Grovelar and it was little things like that it was getting a draw with them before we had to play them and then there was the quarter-final at Not County which was a really really talking to Adrian, either Barathe or The Weekend he was saying like we had these teams that they probably they best ever time or for years like Not County were brilliant where the Chidosi Brian Kilclyne and people like that you know they were a tight little ground with the supermarkets at the back of it and everything and Andy Gray with his nose sliding dive and other wins it because that was a tough tough game to go away to there and get a result in that Yeah it was it was actually we did get some teams that were probably at the peak of their clubs performances over the years and you know but as you said before we started getting that belief we started believing ourselves understanding that we were yeah we're doing something here but the stovegamer that was a start the Oxford Gamer was important but I just think that the spirit was developing that the squad the team was getting settled you know Howard used to chopping chains a lot the same with Neville and Jim Arnold he wasn't sure whether Neville or Jim Arnold you go back to the 182 season Jim, Jim, Jim Neville, Neville, Neville, Jim Jim, Jim, Jim, Neville, Neville he couldn't make his mind up but when you stick with the team and you get a settle side it does help but Knox County stoke away we even played jelling them at home and took us three games to beat them in the cup that year you know it shows you that we weren't quite there but you can see that there's aliens coming back we were never beaten we started to get that one come on we're better than this we can hold out here bit by bit things start I remember I think the jelling game on offer headed the ball off for life and Steve Bruce laid some of the game I think it's the cheapest in the cup so these little things started happening and belief started to come into the players I don't know what I'm playing for the fans because we're too vocal we have to do on the field we're working in training together but I'm sure the fans started believing that there was an opportunity to see something developing but little things make big things the little things grow up go and mess it great at it the little cock in the effort machine my cock tends that cock who tends that cock the biggest cock is effort football and that's what we became we became cogs that started linking well together that's probably the golden nest analogy that's probably the greatest one I can use because we're all individuals but individuals become a team by linking together and all those cogs sort of turn in the same direction in the same way you know but Notts County was tough against Sir Hampton as well that wasn't easy either but you said Liverpool before that was my first W match was that game the 1-1 draw thing wasn't it 1-1 yeah it was wow we held them we did well against them then then we got to Nil Cuffine after the two and we should have won at Wendley on a stink in his it's a horrible rainy day at Wendley mid debut at Wendley it pulls down all day we lost the replay unfortunately then we beat them in the first game of the following series and they challenged you we've gone like 6 games we've matched them here and as a fan I'm sure you can say wait hold on a minute I remember Kingie scored in 78 and that was our last win against Liverpool until we went to Anfield in October 1984 October 1984 so I was at the game watching Kingie score the winner and I'm in the next game I haven't really yet Liverpool 7 years later again it's one of them strange moments I can still see Kingie now sticking in the top corner for my spec in the 3-10 and going to leave us the stupid and then 6 years later I'm in the next team to beat a Liverpool team and it still pinched me something to say that this really happened but that Liverpool game the 1-1 then the 2-0 cut it was like hold on a minute we're okay we're matching teams here and we've matched the best team they were the best team in our country by a distance at the time and we matched them and then the league stopped coming in a lot of your team mates and I've said that even after the milk of final even though we'd lost and Neves should have saved and they did save that team before they ran in the dressing room after that it was like listen we've arrived they're a great side but we've just been as good as them so we keep going and I think if I remember right I'm sure after the defeats main road in the replay there was a few teams on the pitch we walked up we got the little Neville and I remember the bales touching the milk we'll be back there was an honest debate between us all we knew we could match them we weren't frightened the teams anymore we believed we could take the game two teams and become better by being positive and I think that milk and two games really proved to us that yeah we're okay we're going places and the honesty of the lads meant we discussed it at times but I think losing it gave us that incentive of being here we want more of this and I think that helped us on the next couple of weeks and the semi-final to get to the epic up final and then eventually win it that was it I think the two milk up games really really showed that we would have matched for them now definitely what others say to you the 17th of March 84 does that ring any bells to you Mike no but does it because the motor rings bells doesn't it but it did no but I have my clue mate didn't you score another goal did I you beat Ipswitch 1-0 at home when you scored the winner it was the first time you'd scored the winner for Everton it was a long time ago when you scored a hell of a lot of goals but I just thought it was important to highlight that that was the first one Ipswitch time at home it was the first goal and it was the winner it was a bit longer to get the first sweet end goals because the early goals came at the park end park end yeah but she came at the park end so it took me a while to get one of the sweet end and then I made sure to celebrate it when I did when I did I mean you mentioned Salt Anton at Highbury before and that was incredible what a day what a massive result and you know it's an it's had a brilliant and the crowd on the pitch and all I mean Terry Curran was saying just it was incredible because he played he was actually the last person to touch the ball in that semi-final he kicked it away as the referee blew the whistle and he tried to leg it and he couldn't go anywhere because there was too many curling away but I mean what was that like playing in the semi-final and winning and knowing my back at Wembley hasn't ever thrown in haven't suffered the heart taking losing the cup final that's what I said losing the cup final two months earlier may just want to go back and I've always had I've always loved the epic cup it's lost a little bit it's lost for me but in those in the 80s 70s 80s the epic cup was what you all played in the epic cup final and the semi-final was I think it was quite a tense affair I think I actually did show a bit of nerves at times in that but I sort of think it started happening at the same time and you know bit by bit the game goes and if you look at all three semi-finaled epic cup in the 80s we never won in normal time we never won and I think we were we were stronger next to time every one of those teams would be played because we had the place to keep going and believe that we can get results but the 70s the first one is the important one and I remember the free kick I'm not even sure it was a free kick but we got given it and Reedy for one tried to take a free kick it's the most appalling free kick luckily I get a glance earlier on it and then she finishes up but Reedy's free kick he admits herself it was a shocker but that's what I mean is I was up there every game and that's never came up front for free kicks no no no an old set of fours and a six foot plus I went up and you look up and every we never showed up with me self and Andy would tell you for the inch we never made the same runs we always made different runs one might be near post, one back, one middle and I went near post luckily for me I was able to get a little touch on and help him but I remember the ball hitting it and pandemonium it was just brilliant it was absolutely superb the place he rupted the crowd ran on the pitch and we got marbed and I think I took about five and just gave everybody off the pitch it was just complete and utter delivering and then within five or six, eight minutes later the final whistle again it's get off the pitch shit I'm not going to get off this pitch here luckily I got off with all my clothes and my boots intact but it was just an amazing amazing atmosphere and the old highway had big windows that opened up on the road and it was like to climb up the window with the lamp posts and drain pipes to get you out of the window and talk to we were looking out the window it was just brilliant it really was and then he got on the team bus in those days it wasn't alcohol for you like it is nowadays there was no energy drinks there was no pasta it was fish and chips and a pint of larguess and we had a good few drinks coming home on the bus and then everything starts turning too friendly but you still got the league season to finish the league campaign once you get everything changes the whole atmosphere, the place changes and I said to him before the best thing about the epic up fine as a player is actually getting to friendly but the build up the tickets for interviews the shit for suits you want to get there and actually when you get into the change you really go right time for your job now we're here but the build up gets in the way sometimes there's too many people want to slice off it it can take people's mind off the game at times but we had a I remember everything about when we were that game apart from the games you've done I remember the game, I've seen it on video but I don't remember the game I remember going to the ground getting into the change rooms with a big door shutting the silence all of a sudden going into the change rooms having a look at the pitch and seeing the crowd next thing I remember really is the final whistle going you think shit I just want that for a cup it takes a bit of time to settle in it says that so many famous people before me have gone up the XED in Brailabow Bobby Moore in the World Cup they've all chopped the same step and you can't describe what it's like to know that you're going up them stairs and you know there's 39 and you turn left and you see the trophy and you see that little box, that little blue box and you go I'm having one of them now and then the celebrations you just go on and on and on and you just think it's success is never going to end you think it's going to continue, continue, continue but it doesn't for a lot of teams you look at Coventry winning in set 87 not doing loot and run a milk cup it's hard to maintain that success and after the first two games we'll follow season when we've we've got wallet by topping them at home 4-1 and two and away at West Brom you think are we, it's ever at me it's been able six goals against us already but you know to win the game with five games the league with five games spare the end of that season it was just an absolutely unbelievable second season to me in football yeah I mean obviously won the FA Cup unbelievable finished the season in 7th we were 16th on New Year's Eve after that Coventry game so you know the last half of a dozen games we were unbeaten till the end of the season and then around you know