 Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE at IBM Interconnect 2015. Brought to you by headline sponsor, IBM. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in Las Vegas. This is theCUBE with IBM Interconnect. Special presentation of theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events and expect a similar noise. And I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE. Joe is my co-host, co-founder of wikibond.org, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Scott Johnson, SVP of a product at a company you might've heard called Docker. Docker's a great company, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks. Here at IBM Interconnect. So we are going to be bringing theCUBE to Docker cons. That's just news hitting the wire, breaking news right now. theCUBE will be up at San Francisco for your event. Which your event was, you know, always starts out as these small events. Your last one was like, you know, get together, do some marketing, fire marshals in there, kicking everyone out. Yeah, it just got standing on me. What's going on with Docker? How's the IBMs embracing you guys? Redis, Docker, these are the new buzzwords inside the IBM camp, which customers are embracing. Let's talk about the story, what's going on with DockerCon and the business, and here at IBM. Absolutely, and I mean, IBM's been a phenomenal partner. We've been working with them for almost a year at this point. And so in some senses they're coming out a lot of the great work that's been going on under the covers. And it really spans across the board. There's product integrations that we can talk about. There is a wonderful go to markets with their services team. And let's not forget support, which is super important for enterprise customers. And we're a 90 person company in San Francisco, so having that IBM support machine behind you matters a lot. So we're super excited about that relationship. DockerCon, I mean, just start with a community, right? From zero, less than two years ago, Docker's coming up on its second birthday in March, by the way, so watch out for that birthday party. Docker and how it has- We'll look for the invitation. That's right, you should be receiving one. 149 meetup groups in 49 countries around the world with 32,000 members from zero. And so from there, we bring the community together for DockerCon, as you know. And last year, our plan was for 500. We're really worried if we would sell out, not only do we sell out, we had a waiting list of twice that. And as you know, fire marshals kind of come in, kind of calm everyone down. They had no room for the queue. We were in the queue. There was no room. There was no room for any of us. So it was super tight. So this week up to the bit, we're looking for- And you've done some financing, so you've got some big bucks under your belt. There's fat checks from Jerry Chen and Greylock. You know, you've got to spend it wise, spend it wisely and carefully. And so we'll be expanding. We think about on 2,000 participants, but already ticket sales are off the charts and sponsorships are through the roof. So who knows? Might have fire marshals show up again. Yeah, I mean, we're really proud to be just witnessing and be part of that growth. Because watching and we interviewed Solomon a couple of years ago. And then that's before Ben came on board before Jerry did the investment. You can see the movement was some good love going on with Docker. The approach work, the timing was impeccable. The idea of a container has been around for a while. But the open source, perfect storm of open source formula with the container at that time, you certainly hit that funnel cloud. You guys just get sucked up into the vortex. I think you're exactly right. And it was a lot about timing, right? Because the conversation at the time and then still is about applications, app velocity. How quickly can I get my application, my innovation into production? And there's lots of great tools trying to solve that problem. And Docker came along. It took a concept that had been around containers but made it super easy to use. You don't have to be a kernel jock to use Docker. And before you had to go in and start flipping C group bits and namespace bits. Docker just made it super easy to do that. And for as an added benefit, once you use that container technology on your laptop, you can snap that image, move it, deploy it anywhere. Scott, I got to ask you because this is something that I've been kicking around and introducing to folks here. The notion of DevOps has certainly been a catalyst. All the hyper scale, web scale, whatever you want to call it has set the table for the DevOps. Now I'm going into mainstream enterprise. So the word stand up, what does that mean to you? Standing up server, standing up. That's a geek term usually in the cloud world. Hey, I'm going to stand up some infrastructure. Hey, I'm going to stand this up. It implies it's easy. It does. This is now coming into social media. Anything that's native cloud or hybrid cloud related has to stand up easily, which means one, get functional, operational, functional, operational and integrate. Talk about what that means. You've seen the revolutions of other cycles. That's right. Talk about that dynamic of standing it up. No, I think that's a great topic and honestly there's been a great 10 year, a decade long education of the market in standing up infrastructure. Amazon and VMware have educated the market on ease and convenience and most of all speed. No longer do you have to talk to Dell or any of the vendors get a box shipped out, provision the box. You should take loud cloud back in the day. It took three months to get a box from Dell provision in the data center. Amazon and VMware completely redid that equation. And now we're seeing that same movement standing up apps on top of that. And Docker's part of that conversation due to the focus of DevOps focused on the application but also because the market's been educated thanks to VMware and AWS on the value of speed. They're like speed at my infrastructure layer outstanding that changed their world. Now I want speed at the app layer. Docker's coming in to change that world. Well the other piece of it is you think VMware, you think private, right? On-premise, you think AWS, you think public cloud and what you hear at this event is hybrid. You know moving from here to there. Yeah laptop but then I can provision it. I can move it back if I need to. So that's sort of one piece of it and then the other piece Scott, you hear a lot is enterprise grade containers. Okay so what is all that mean? Yes I think both of those are great examples of basically we're in an early market but it's maturing so quickly and IBM is obviously a big part, it's been a big partner in that. So the first one is really like if you're going to deploy in the enterprise today they want the flexibility to deploy to the cloud the public cloud someday without rewriting but today they're going to deploy internally and what they don't want to do is build a stack, stand up a stack internally only to have to rewrite it should the economics or certain policies allow them to push it to the public cloud later. So hybrid cloud is part of that stepping stone solution of like you can deploy safely on-prem or in the hybrid cloud today but you have the option of going public tomorrow. You know in terms of operationalizing or maturing the technology you're absolutely right. Look Docker is less than two years old. Right and I've seen a lot of hyper growth was at Netscape was at Loud Cloud, Officeware was at Puppet Labs and so I've seen a lot of hyper growth enterprise technologies before nothing has taken off this quickly and honestly we're still catching up with so many of the expectations and so you see a technology that landed with developers that was beloved by developers could solve great problems for them at the desktops now those applications are heading towards production. The enterprise is great but I need monitoring, I need support, I need failover, I need login, all the enterpriseification if you will, the application and that tooling is just, it's still being built out. Yeah we were talking before we came on and certainly we've talked to Pat Gelsinger about it at VMware that you know this is decades, decade or decade long runs of innovation. Exactly right. So when you talk about developers that there is a overhang on where the innovation kind of lands or grows or fruit comes from the tree. We're so early, I mean you guys That's right. I'm maybe overstating the ramp is not an indicator of where we are in the cycle so give you a perspective on that because you know there's a new time and things do grow faster. Sometimes weeds grow fast and die. We've seen that on the web app side on consumer apps. But we know what developer tools and frameworks. This is downstream is where you get the benefit. So how about that timing, the first five years or first decade of? We've actually been surprised so I've been with the company a year and I expected we had 12 to 18 months before the enterprise hit because I was thinking similarly like it just takes time to mature the technology and the people to get comfortable with it and for enterprises to say all right now I have the tools to deploy it and it's been neck snapping how quickly we've been pulled across the chasm. Pulled across the chasm. Like we were not expecting this quick adoption so I think a lot of it is due to the market having educated the enterprises on speed as we were talking about before. Like they've been educated that wow Cloud gave me this kind of speed Docker can give me that kind of speed. So VMware and AWS had to do a lot of education over that 10 year timeframe. We're not having to do as much education this time around because the mapping or the analogy between the infrastructure layer and the app layer, it's pretty apt. I will say just to tie that off is that it is not kind of one to one just take your apps and put them in Docker though. I think what is going through the market right now is an education that this gives you a new way to architect your apps. The microservices cloud native however you want to call it. A new way. A new way to architect. A completely new way to architect the app and that is requiring some education. You're trading monolithic app complexity for API contract complexity. You know such things a free lunch but if you do that you move faster you deploy quicker, you work in smaller teams. The transformational benefits are off the charts. Well and you just talking about DevOps before. Yes. A lot of the DevOps guys a lot of them come from ops. Yes. And they're like freed up and they're smart people and it's like okay, hey, do some dev and now there's this giant pent up demand. That's exactly right. Which in hindsight it's 2020 it's we should have been able to predict it better but it was totally unpredictable. The need for speed, right? I mean if you can go back to your application organization if ops can go back and be heroes and say it used to take nine months to deploy an app into production. This is a use case, ING. Used to take the ING nine months to deploy an application in production. They went through a complete transformation. Docker is proud to be part of that. They now can do that in 15 minutes. The same deploy from nine months to 15 minutes. Think of what that does to your innovation cycle. It's changed the game. I mean it's not just 20%, 30%. It's orders of magnitude. And what are they shipping now in the life cycle of their apps? So this particular. So they're sprinting and then ship or is it more? They actually have completely retooled the organization and they can do continuous integration, continuous delivery. Ops guys are involved building automation frameworks for them and they can push from a developer commit. That commit can be ready to go to production in 15 minutes. Yeah, so that is the cloud way. So as a new guy, Senior VP of product, Jerry Chen was the new guy at Greylock. This is his first investment. And I said to him, just don't screw it up, Jerry. Jerry, don't screw it up. Will you have the sophomore jinx? And we laugh about that, you know, all joking aside. It's a good deal. I mean, in some way you take the job. I'll screw it up. No, you got a lot of pressure. You got a lot of pressure. Well, one, you got to worry about not screwing up because you're going so great right now. Do you let the ship just ride? Do you float down with the growth? And how do you manage that product? So serious questions. Okay, you got all this massive growth. How do you shape the product? What's the product organization strategy? In some cases, we get the wind at your back. Don't change it. Let's just move it where you want it. How do you do that as a product leader? Well, I mean, it's also, let's be clear that talk is a community effort, right? And so I am a product leader, but it's like, we've got Solomon who is obviously a phenomenal visionary and CTO. We've got a phenomenal team around the product organization with the engineering organization. And we've got this community that is gosh, million strong that's giving us feedback early and often in terms of where to go. And so I think what we're finding is as we mature from open source kind of developer landing points in the organizations in the enterprise, that there's a new set of users. There's the QA users. There's the DevOps users, the operations folks. And those folks have different requirements and different needs or that complement what the developers need. So the product organization. You also have pressure on the biz dev side. Everyone wants to marry DACA right now. You're the bride of tech. And you guys are winning, right? I mean. Well, next time it's who's heads up our BD organization just does a phenomenal job of trying to play nice and play well. At the same time, work well with partners and the IBM relationship is a great example. All right. Talk about the IBM relationship. Yeah. I'm sorry. It's going. I want to understand the nature of that relationship. Yes. We talk about enterprising. Yes, that's right. What does that mean? What do you guys do? What's IBM bringing to the table? That's right. So I guess we'll take a kind of, there's a lot of different pieces, but we'll take kind of the most concrete cases in front of us and that we were, as you know, kind of open sources driving the adoption ubiquity for the organization to make money, to pay the developers as well as the investors. Building and selling commercial product, license, commercial licensed product. And we announced that in December at DockerCon Europe and we're in beta now with that product and that goes GA in Q2 in a couple months. IBM is one of the major go-to-market partners with that product. By that I mean they are taking it into their channel. They are providing frontline support. They are doing product integrations around that product, products called Docker Hub Enterprise. And the product allows operations teams who need the tools to manage all these open source engines and containers, gives them the tools to do that effectively. And who knows enterprise adoption better than IBM? So we're super excited about that partnership and it's the entire value chain from sales to product to support all the way through. And so we're going to be talking more about that in Q2 obviously, but that's one big one. IBM has done a number of other integrations working with us. They've done integration with BlueMix so the BlueMix is now a native Docker format. So developer again, develops the application on their laptop and developer in a Docker container, launch it on BlueMix without changing it, right? Good to go. IBM as well has done a lot of investments in the DevOps space as you're well aware. And there's a very exciting integration with their Urban Code platform to make Docker a native container on there. So Urban Code, which is managing the CI DebBuild test process for enterprises today, does a phenomenal job at that. Now if you are building your application side Docker containers, they just drop into that Urban Code process and flow right on through. So those are just some simple examples but just it's super exciting to see kind of the resources of IBM aligned behind containers. And I'd be remiss if I didn't put one more out there which is a lot of the market right now is x86, right? IBM of course has the resources and the community chops they put together community versions of Docker for their mainframes for power and Z. And so you're seeing Docker everywhere which is Solomon's original vision through the community and partnerships really become a reality. Because again, 80 people in a turtle can't do all that work. We just had the sea guys on. It's Linux, right? It's Java, it's the modernization of the whole platform. I remember back in the 80s I guess, the economists would say spending on information technology, it's great, it's growing, but we don't see it in the productivity numbers. This is before the whole personal productivity boom. And then boom, they stopped talking about it because the United States became a dominant force in the world adopting technology. The productivity boom was enormous. I feel like from an application development standpoint, we are on the cusp of a new productivity boom. I wonder if you could talk about that. I agree, I think it's exciting because apps, to see the productivity, to see the results of everyone's efforts, the apps have to get into production, right? They got to go all the way through the life cycle. And you saw basically developers lead with Agile and Scrum and the tools around that and that was great, but if they lead and go fast and the apps stop moving from release into production because ops isn't there yet, then where are we seeing the benefits of that productivity, right? They're not getting all the way through. I think with the DevOps movement, with tools like Puppet and Chef and now Docker, we're now able to provide that end-to-end basically platform so you can get the benefits of all this productivity on the human side into the code, into the applications and all the way through the life cycle. Talk about what Docker means to the world. I mean, you look at the open source revolution. I mean, it could be written that, you know, it's the movement of the century. The modernization of open source. Now we're talking to Red Hat about it last week. You get your purists, but new models are emerging and if you look at the generations, I'm going to be 50 this year. So it's like, I remember when open source was like, oh my God, it's free, I can use it. And then, you know, back in Muslim college, you had BSD and you had UNIX alternatives and Linux then came out of that. But now we're almost in like, you could argue fourth, fifth, sixth generation, whatever, of modern open source, first year citizen, natives, they're talking about native Docker. This is happening really fast. What is the view of this? What does it mean to the world in terms of middleware, lower the stack? It's the same game, lower the stack, middle stack applications. The game is still the same, but things are shifting. How would you talk about that? It sounds cliche, but Docker is about choice. I mean, if we're just kind of speaking about the kind of big movements, like Docker's about choice because now the decision of where to run your application and what resources to use inside the container, those are uncoupled, right? I no longer have my application tied to my specific infrastructure provider or my specific cloud provider or my specific OS. Now I just, and conversely, I'm now free to use any technology that I want inside the container because it's completely independent of the underlying infrastructure. We've got Microsoft doing .NET inside Docker containers now. Who'd imagine that five years ago? And so you can mix and match. It's insane, it's fun. You can use your choice to use best technology for the application and use your choice to where you're going to land that application. Microsoft's learned, they don't go open source, they're going to be out of business. I mean, I think they kind of realize, eat your own before you get eaten. It's phenomenal transformation. So that's all about the network now. So you're abstracting away a lot of stuff for the developers, which is goodness for in the spirit of the front end guys and the app developers. The network's still a problem. You've got peering issues, you've got network virtualization. But just look at the scale, right? So networking SDN up to this point has been targeting the VM type workloads. And so great, that's tens of VMs, maybe hundreds. Now with Docker, we're talking thousands of containers flying around, right? And so the SDN, what you see happening in the SDN community is the architecture really being reexamined. Like, okay, what do we need to take into account this new level of scale with thousands of containers and the ephemeral nature containers, right? You stand up on the VM, stand up, it stands up. It stays there, it stays there. Microservices based applications fire up the container five minutes, tear it down, fire it up for another five minutes, tear it down. And so the movement I think is a very different challenge or design point for this, for the network guys. We're getting the hook here, but I got to ask you two questions, one quick one. In the big data world, it's got data lakes and data oceans. Which metaphor do you like better? You know, I think the whales like oceans, right? So I think the data ocean kind of resonates with our Docker whale metaphor, so anything about that. Docker, yeah, Docker endorses data ocean. I love that. Second question, what does it mean for you guys here for the show? Docker and IBM, okay? For customers out there with IBM, evaluating IBM. Blue makes us no AWS. They're making a lot of headway. Certainly they're moving them. And with this, they can. Why Docker here? What does it mean for the customers? Well, I'm not going to speak for IBM, but if I'm an IBM customer watching this, it's like, wow, IBM is pushing innovation, right? Pushing gradually. I mean, whether it's cloud, whether it's application workloads. And on flip side, if you're a customer looking at Docker, and you've wondered, wow, this little open source company and gosh, isn't that just an early adopter thing? Isn't that just for tech startups? It's like, no, the message is that it's ready for the enterprise. And together, I think IBM and Docker will be able to deliver on that promise. All right, Scott, thanks for coming joining us here inside theCUBE here at Live at Las Vegas. This is theCUBE, and of course, we'll be at DockerCon breaking news. theCUBE will be at DockerCon extracting that signal, sharing with you. We'll get some space in there. Hopefully we won't be too tight. I know it's going to be a packed house. Senior Vice President of Product, one of the hottest companies in tech right now. Really connecting everything together. The glue of a massively grown market. Congratulations on your success. We'll be right back after the short break. 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