 Hey guys before we get into this week's episode on Buddy Rich I just wanted to let you know that there's a couple points in this episode where the phone connection gets a little shoddy So I've done everything I can to clean it up and remove these like weird beeps that were happening But this is such a cool topic and I love Buddy Rich and I learned a ton from Sean who is a serious expert on Buddy so stick with it and I hope you enjoy the episode Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today is Buddy Rich day I'm joined by Sean Martin who is the man to talk to about Buddy Rich Sean. How's it going man? I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing today? Good good? I'm really excited to talk about this one We've we have met and been talking via social media for a while on on Instagram and mm-hmm, and it's funny cuz posting old drum videos I Originally started just I found your YouTube page and then kind of put it all together That well, it's the same guy from Instagram. So it's just cool that that you know, you're everywhere man You have you have such great photos and historical content. It's really cool Well, I appreciate it to be honest with you guys The amount of working you've been doing is pretty amazing some of the stuff you've managed to get up And I've known Bruce Chaddler for a long time. So It's uh, I hope I'm able to do it as well as other people have been doing up to this point Yeah, I'm sure it'll be I'm sure it'll be great. So yeah today I'll let you take it away again. What our plan for today is is to learn basically just a biography of Buddy Rich Everyone can appreciate the guy and how great he was. So I'm excited to hear about it So I'll let you take it away from from the beginning of Buddy's life Sure, sure. Well, yeah, you can consider it's been over 30 years since he died and When you look at any of these polls to come out regardless of what it is, but it's rolling stone or whoever He's always up there. Whether he's not If he's not the number one drummer, he's usually within the pop 10 So it's pretty amazing considering someone's been gone that long still considered to be the best Or one of the best it's not the best. So it's pretty amazing Going back pretty much to the beginning What we talked about earlier is born September 30th, 1917 And he was the third kid and his His parents were in vaudeville Like everyone it's probably heard and you're going on younger people listening and they may not know even what vaudeville is but He looked back before tv and in the early years was even before radio. So There were just groups different actors comedians Dancers whatever they just toured around the country entertaining people at different theaters. So But uh, yeah, his parents were in vaudeville for many years before that but when buddy was born He was a little different from his other kids that other kids they had apparently he was walking and talking really early And he was really into music and actually from everything I've heard that One of the few times he was roughly in a good mood is when there was music playing Really, uh, he didn't have music. He was he had to get pretty can't can't pancreas, I guess So that so that was that that was throughout and we'll learn more about it later But so he's always kind of been a little edgy of a guy Yeah, okay. Yeah, and a lot of what what came after that All of his years being so young and being in vaudeville himself But I think was a lot of what turned him that way. He didn't have a normal upbringing in the slightest. So, yeah, but Apparently early early on though. He If they're at a restaurant or at home or whatever He'd be picking up anything, you know, do his hands on and it'd be tapping away on everything And they thought that was gonna need that they never they didn't think of anything oh but One time they had brought him to the theater during a rehearsal and I believe it was in there was a bgb theater and The drummer had noticed him Papping along when they were rehearsing And he thought wow, that's that's kind of odd make as they kept rehearsing He was continued to do it along with the music and He kept trying to get the attention of the rest of the people in the band and the leader and saying watch him He seemed to be like he's falling along with the music And I said, no, he has no way because he was only at that point. He was only about a year old. Oh my god and So they kept playing and he was going right along with the music So it was playing a regular four four song So they decided let's play walks and three four So they played that and he went right along with The band in three four and it's obviously they realized there's something really different once as kids and ultimately they Got the bad convention. You need to get you can put them in the act and he was kind of has them into doing that so yeah, and By the time he was 18 months, they had had him in the show At the very end of it. They'd bring him out. He'd be tapping on a chair My gosh playing with some drumsticks And then they had him as you may have seen some of the videos out there Of him doing stars and stripes forever that bring out a snare drum The band that plays stars and stripes and he'd be playing it. Wow in 18 months. Oh my god. So he's bored into it That's that's crazy. Wow. Yeah And he was basically in the act full time by the time he was two And uh And at that point they had Ludwig they had gotten a Ludwig to come in and you've seen those pictures of them with that gigantic bass drum And then standing up with a sailor suit. Yep Yep, his little haircut. Yeah Exactly And uh, yeah and in exchange for the for the drum set and having their name on the front of it and everything He was they give him the drum set. So wow Yeah, it's pretty amazing to consider you're 18 months old and you're Going around with the band. Yeah, so that's when so that's when he was known at that point is baby traps the drum wonder Right, or is that a little bit later on? No, from my understanding. It's about they that's the name that they had given him at that point uh Yeah, and they were at that point they were touring all around the normal places in america but In 24 and 1924 they actually toured australia with him. Wow. So By the time he was in his early teens Yeah, my time he was in his early teens. He was the uh second highest paid chowl performer Thanks to jackie kogan. Man, it's weird to look at the uh to think about buddy as a child star You know what I mean? Like you think of like nowadays like actors and actresses and how kind of I don't want to say screwed up. They can get but they can get mixed up into stuff and um I've never thought about him as that as a child star, which he definitely was Yeah, I'm during that whole time too. You know, you wasn't getting any real education either. Yeah Just books or anything like that any type of homeschooling they can do at one point they had Enrolled them in school, but it doesn't sound like it turned out too well He because he not being around other kids Just getting along with him and obviously by that point He's just like the buddy everyone's used to as far as getting in fights having that that that type of personality Kind of caustic, I guess. Wow. Okay, but uh But yeah, it it got to a point once he got into his teens where he was getting sick of the The look that he had obviously if you're a 15 year old kid and have that buster brown eric at one of the sails around No, no, that's funny. Yeah So go on a little while longer. Actually, I think it was when he was around 12 that There was a vitaphone the company's full short video clips Uh, they come out with one the video of it No longer exists. The volume of it is my youtube that was called Buddy traps and sound effects Where he'd also be in the fires and strikes Like he's been doing all along but has some other things in it with him playing and it's pretty amazing You can sort of the 12 year old kid playing from the level that he did and only have as we have to hear it these days And what they've hoped that the video at some point would take me down, but It's not out there. It doesn't look like but we do have a lot of you other So that's neat. Cool. All right. Well, it's this point of buddy. That's where Bob's all kind of being on its way out Going into late 20s around 1930 or so uh That's kind of an idea You know band together for buddy actually front, which was kind of hot Apparently the last very long but it was front in a band of adult musicians when you consider that Again, he ended up 12 15 years old Around that time though, he actually was listening to the radio a lot And he was into jazz. He was listening to Apparently a lot of going right and pointed burglars with the drummer then and if you've ever read much on buddy After the name that you don't hear a lot about a lot of drummers that buddy says he liked. Yeah, really Tony was yeah, Tony was one that really Person is the interest and got him into jazz. Hmm. So he goes from Playing on vaudeville growing up in that world to then basically like many child stars want to do Become your own Person and become your own like have his own identity basically Exactly. Yeah at that point too is you got to realize that Buddy was pretty much He was so big at that point. He was pretty much the one making the money for the entire family. Wow So that's that's um quite a burden. That's gonna be on the kid And uh, but he's still wanted to use sick of doing what he was doing. He was interested in jazz He was actually struggling as a club around brooklyn. It was called crystal club and That's when he was around 20 And Is that doesn't like it though? He didn't want him playing jazz. He thought that was the money coming in from buddy He didn't want him playing jazz. He wanted him still playing Doing what they'd always been doing at vaudeville, but it was on its way out He wasn't going to be able to keep doing that forever and no a teenage kid A tall kid You can't keep dressing them up in a little sailor to see forever. It just doesn't work So No Okay, so he starts playing jazz. So then we're in the so so then yeah, what's what's the next phase? Well, he uh, already should parallel as a bass player and he actually went it's fairly close to them that got to be friends and Joe marsala's band was playing at the hickory house then and on a 52nd street Which was jazz row in new york And he wanted to get buddy to sit in and play with the band and Eventually they said yeah go ahead, but it took Several times of them going down there before he was able to get sit in and actually play with him And buddy was not too happy at that point But the third time they were there. He actually was able to sit in and Apparently the way it sounds it pretty much blew the roof off the joint when he played He played a jim jams stomp was joe marsala's big song and that's what they play and uh, yeah It was a it was a pretty amazing event to see from all recollections that people have talked about we've seen written books So yeah, I bet that's pretty that's pretty much as That's the start in jazz pretty much and from that point marsala wanted to hire him so he was he was playing with him and 1937 so we're up to 37 at this point But the problem was there was dixieland And that was really wasn't what he wanted to play. Yeah He wasn't with him for for too long and he Was fed up at that point And he managed to get on with bunny barrigan's band a few months after that Wasn't with him for too long, but that was a More get more toward what he wanted to play Little more of a jazz band Problem was bunny barrigan had a severe alcohol problem which caused some issues with the band He didn't live to be very old unfortunately due to his alcohol problem, but uh It's a pretty good band a little more of a jazz group Gotcha Well, and at this point jazz is changing music is changing. It's going from different styles of Jazz so it's kind of an interesting time for buddy to be in there And I imagine he Was kind of helping to shape a little bit of what's happening in in some of these bands and and push it forward Yeah, can you talk about 1935? It's pretty much considered to be The candy of the swinger. Yeah the big band swinger So at that time she and purple was the big drummer at that point and obviously buddy was watching a lot of him and uh, he was wanted to He knew what he could do You know, even at that point he He had the high opinion of his playing. So yeah, he was wanting to get out there and get the notoriety himself So after he had left bunny barrigan, he had got named already shaw's band and at this point by 1938 Jim crew by left Benny good then after the Carnegie Hall concert in january 38 And at that point already shaw's band was becoming the big band. So he got in there at the at the right time But when he looked back our buddy was actually a big part of already shaw's band becoming as big as they were He really uh, his drumming really added a big part to that music and the and it got into a little more jazz Then what already had been doing already already's band A big chunk of it at that when he joined was a little more dance band type stuff So it wasn't really the swing type thing that that buddy wanted to do him joining the band Good arrangements Really got that band going must have been hard to be in a band with him because it's just kind of like he's the star He's the spotlight is on him. So I'm sure there was some some budding heads over that Yeah, and already shaw himself anyone that knows much about already shaw. He was a very cerebral guy and Buddy was kind of the same way he wasn't buck smart But both of them had that that same type of personality It's something to contend with when he got someone who's he knows what he wants to play and if the band isn't doing it He's let everyone know it. Yeah, so if they were playing too many ballads. He apparently would uh Even during live shows he would he would register as this content with what was going on if they were playing too many Floats on yeah like that. Yeah Now what kind of uh, what drums was he playing at this point? Was he still playing Ludwig from his uh early years with that kind of endorsement or who was he on uh, who was he playing these days? Well, technically he had a and his first endorsement even though he'd been using Ludwig all those years when he was young He'd technically gotten an endorsement with slingerland around 1932 even when he was still pretty young before He had the notoriety And that went clear up until around 1945 he was using slingerland got it He got to realize at that point though gene krupa was Slingerland's guy. He made slingerland what they were at that point. Yeah, and He wasn't ever gonna be the number one drummer with slingerland. He wasn't gonna get all the advertising and all that all that sort of thing so You go around 1945 again. He's when he left slingerland Ludwig Corraled them in promising them all the uh, the equipment he would need and They would promote him So he went to Ludwig around that time, okay, but uh, when he go back when he was still I've already shot though they were making movies and Again, they were the number one band at that point But already being the kind of odd guy that he was in 1939 at one of the shows He just decided During the middle of a set that he was leaving. He just quit the band and left and went to mexico Wow, so there were there that was pretty much the end of the band already shaw did that already shaw quit the Already shaw band and went to mexico. Exactly. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I just got up flew to mexico That was the end of that band so at that point Tommy Dorsey Was needing a new drummer cleft cleft Lehman had been playing with Tommy Dorsey that was going to be going And he managed to get on with Tommy Dorsey's band He wasn't really all that happy about it But uh fly all over the big the great arranger who played the uh, or he actually arranged for Jimmy onesford's band Got on the Tommy Dorsey and they were getting some good arrangement swing type of arrangements because Tommy Dorsey's band was always called the general motors of band leaders because it was all pretty Moctose, I guess you could call it. Yeah, it wasn't the type of stuff, buddy He was gonna want to play but they got fly all over in there started getting some pretty hot arrangements And they started bringing in some More swing jazz type players like Ziggy Elman, and then of course she had Frank Sinatra Who is the Tommy Dorsey at that time as well? Yeah. Yeah So he had a pretty pretty big list of people within that band that All of them had strong personalities unfortunately So he kind of ran into the same problem he and Frank have like kind of a uh, a very long Troubled relationship where it's kind of well, we can get to that later But it's kind of confusing on They are really good friends and Frank is paying his medical bills when he was sick But then they fight constantly and they come back and forth So we can kind of remember that for later But um, so Tommy Dorsey was that wasn't I guess his big break But I mean as far as I know in that world of kind of big bands and stuff That's who I knew of him playing with for the for the longest time in my, you know experience Correct. Yeah, he was with Dorsey for several years Uh, already I'm sure you would have played with him longer if already had just got up and left his own band but uh Yeah, well with Dorsey it was severe banging of ads the way it sounds. Tommy Dorsey Like money buried him once he drank a lot So that caused problem and they also had that the same similar kind of personality That buddy has and then along with Frank Sinatra So Tim and Frank apparently thought they were the leaders of the band They wanted everything they wanted to be featured in everything. Yeah Frank wanted to do the big local numbers, but buddy wanted to be showcased too. So That caused problems They didn't have some pretty big songs with Dorsey like a lion or a chan which is uh One that anyone who's listening that's watching anybody rich video on youtube They've probably seen some of the video the old video the old black and white wonderful lion or chan. Yep. That's a good one. Yeah and Yeah, and they also had a couple of songs other than that a couple that Future buddy quiet poise and then they had one called not so quiet poise Which some people probably be familiar with as well, but sure. Yeah, it uh, well and pretty well, but Buddy and Frank were roommates as well. So we figure in their tampers That could cause some problems going Going there when they're actually living together. I mean, that's just two celebrities kind of living together and now Side note. So I'm assuming at this point, buddy is a household name. He's been in he's in movies Everyone knows him. When did the era of Kind of running parallel with this when did the era of battling with like gene krupa start? I know they're actually they were great friends huge respect for each other Yeah, um, so it's not like a but but there's a series of albums and there's videos of them Battling when when what's that happening? That would be from the time of being with Dorsey Uh, around 42 you're like in a close to 10 years later when that started. Okay. So once you started with jazz at the philharmonic That's when the the drum battles started up. I'm getting ahead of myself here. So um, all right Well, then let's back up then so so with Tommy Dorsey. He does this for a while Um, is he married at this point? Is he a single guy or what's his like personal life like? Well, he started seeing uh, Lana Turner There's a name that a lot of you are probably familiar with she was a big movie star and cut him a pen up at that point She had uh, she had been married to already Shaw already Shaw was One of the famous people that had been married. He was married eight different times So a lot Lana Turner was in the long list of people he was married to but after that actually Buddy had gotten to be friends with her and he fell in love with her and they were dating for a while and Buddy was pretty he was the point. He wanted to marry her and It sounded like she wanted to marry him but wasn't prepared to get married And I just it seemed like that but it turned out when buddy thought they were actually going to get married She wound up marrying some other guy. Oh boy. I bet buddy was upset about that Yeah, it apparently uh, they hit him pretty hard from from whatever ads it's so it uh That was a whole rough time. So he was pretty pretty confident. They're gonna get married, but they didn't Oh, okay. Well, that's That's interesting. Yeah Like about Shaw's band, they were appearing in quite a few movies during that time as well There's one called shit boy That again with the youtube there's videos up there that have been posted a million times up on Facebook and elsewhere that You'll see buddy with a helen or cow. She was a big dancer at the time. Yep and there's a pretty famous cut from the leadership of horny where The tossing sticks back and forth with each other. Yeah, it's extremely well choreographed that video is like I mean the way they do that routine that you're talking about is like, I mean for Today's standards then any time it's really well choreographed and impressive. Yeah, it just shows your buddy's ability Yeah, just didn't know to do that that because he's been dancing They go clear back to when he was really young in vaudeville. That's He wasn't just playing drums. He was also dancing as well And singing a little bit. So yeah, he had uh, he was pretty versed in dancing and then of course He began singing later on but Yeah, that was pretty well choreographed film Yeah, and so did a few other movies as well Yeah, it seemed like that was the and also with gene krupa. That was the thing was these these guys were the They started to become drummers who were in films, which uh, which is really cool. So All right, so we are in The 40s here, correct. What what happened after you know after that tommy dorsi experience? He hadn't gotten drafted But he wanted to join the military at that point around 19 and 1944 So he uh, I'm listed with marines. He never got stationed out of the u.s. But uh Just like you would expect the apparent way it I don't a lot of time in the break. He was getting in trouble quite a bit And he didn't like it at all and As opposed to having a tough time He said that he was one of the only jewish people in his platoon And people were picking on him because of that he figured back at that time Yeah, it wasn't wasn't a good time for a lot of jewish people at that point. So Ultimately, he ended up getting a medical discharge. He wasn't in the military for very long and he got back with dorsi again for a period of time But he also after that point to count basey for a little while around that time too, there's a Guy named herbie haver at a small band. He played with him for a while But he wasn't able to get out with out of his contract at that point and a bunch of them were using Pseudo names would never be going to be recording with him. He was going by the name of buddy poor No way really? He was yeah. Oh my god. So using a pseudonym to get out of his Contract and going under buddy poor. That's insane. I didn't know that Yeah, there's I can't remember some of the other people around that day But I know there was at least one other person who I can't remember there was a dorsi or wet band that he was also using one of those names It was actually fairly common. Yeah for The different musicians who were under contract To play for a different record label because just used a different name So I wasn't getting trouble for it. Wow. That's great. Yeah But going back to marriage actually did get married for a really short amount of time in 1945 to Gene's southern one So that it only lasted a few months. He wasn't married before he was married in maran Got it. You like at this point the the big band era Pretty much by the mid to lighter 40s is when it started dying out And Jazz was starting that small group jazz was trying to get really big at that point So after he left Dorsey he was doing recordings with actually starting to record with some of the really big names in jazz like luster young he did a there was an album luster young buddy rich trio And we did an album of luster young who Is still considered to be one of the greatest tenor sax players in history. So cool So at this point rocker of the mid 40s Going back to drums who's again this 46 actually is when he joined Ludwig, I believe and uh, he was wanting to start his own band And french synopera Who had become even though if they found a lot was a pretty good friend at that point. Yeah, and frank had He is 25 000 to start the band What a nice guy. Yeah And the band was actually really good and it was pretty It was in the they got a lot of the bop feel which bop was getting to be really big at that point and With the rangers that they were playing a lot of bop flavor type tunes and Playing at the hollywood palladium And buddy actually bodies youngest brother mickey was a sax player And played with buddy's band at that point. Oh cool. I didn't know that I didn't know he had his family was uh involved cool Yeah, just the younger brother mickey played with him I don't think he was with him for too long because he actually got into a completely different line of work It was pretty successful on it But the band was pretty good. They they were received well, but they weren't making any money And buddy as you may know, he was well-known as being a pretty big spender So that probably didn't help matters a whole lot either No, was he like uh buying rolls roices kind of guy and jewelry and all that kind of stuff or in houses I don't I don't know much about that. Yeah at that time. I believe he had a jaguar He went through a lot of different cars, but uh, he had a couple different jags and uh And then I think he had an mg as well during that time, but yeah over his entire life He had quite a few different high dollar cars But ultimately the band around 48 47 48 Uh, he ended up throwing in the towel because the band just wasn't making any money and the back the big band just They weren't they weren't going anymore. Everyone that's pretty much thrown in the towel Yeah, they can't get big bands. There's a very few of them left at that point. So in uh We're on 47. He joined jazz at the Philharmonic, but he wasn't worth it For very long It actually got together another big band of his own Which obviously didn't make it all too long, but You may another thing you may have remembered. There's a famous Audio clip of him playing just two bass drums I don't know if you've heard that at all. No, I haven't I haven't Yeah, because what we both saw another great jazz drummer Was the guy that is noted for being he wasn't actually the first person to play double bass drum But he's the first one. He really did anything with it. Yeah with gretch and we were getting a well Yeah, originally with gretch And of course, buddy saw that and he wanted to do that show everyone I can do that. I can do more than that so one time at that When they're playing the palladium he drug out through bass drums and did a low Bass drum thing on the old man river just playing bass double bass drum. Wow, I'll find that. I'll look that up. Cool Yeah, that's I'm pretty sure that's probably still up on youtube But uh, the band really didn't make it much longer after that. He completely broke up the big band again So at that point he he played for less browns band recorded some materials lost brown And then he got back with jazz at the Philharmonic again Side note quick question here. So I kind of was under the impression that he didn't really like the big band stuff He liked doing jazz more, but he seems like he just wants to keep going back and trying to have his own big band Um, but I'm sure maybe his own personal big man had kind of more of a jazz flavor to it and swing But um, he seems to really like the big bands at this point It's kind of a kind of a word game. I guess you want to call it a lot of people what they can Jazz now is generally just kind of be a small group But as he would call it you would call his band any of the big bands that he had he called it jazz Okay, even though they hadn't written arrangements and everything it wasn't just 16 guys out there Just doing a free for all or whatever they want the obviously had arrangements for everything But it was still jazz got it. Yeah, yeah But uh, during that time again with he was with jazz at the Philharmonic and he was of course We're doing a lot of recording at that point with all the All the big names at at that time again with charlie parker, but pal lesser young He pretty much played with that everyone that was anyone at that point Yeah, so jazz at the Philharmonic was was a big deal at that point And you're talking earlier about the drum battles. Yeah with uh, jane creeper The the big one the big recording unfortunately the only recording we have of that As of now is the one at Carnegie Hall in 1952 The album called the original drum battle between the two of them They had a lot of battles. It did but unfortunately Either they weren't recorded or norm and grams It was the guy that hadn't set up yet with Philharmonic There's all sorts of rumors for years that he had recordings audio and video, but None of them surfaced unfortunately Why don't you talk a little bit about their relationship in general just because um again if you're battling you think there's some sort of headbutting, but um I always saw it kind of as like a I know their age difference like kind of a like gene would be more of like Like a father figure. I don't think they're that far off in age, but um, yeah, what's their relationship like? Yeah, gene was about eight years old or so he really wasn't that much older But he and when he think back buddy was Technically started playing drums around the same time or maybe slightly earlier Since he started playing when he was 18 months old But yeah, they were actually they they were really got to be really good friends up until gene died 1973 and From what I've heard that When gene died it was it hit buddy really hard. Yeah, so They were really good friends and the way they looked at it with those drum battles They didn't look at it as a battle They just got out there and did what they did And the audiences went crazy Yeah, if you listen to that drum battle the original drum battle The the audience is making so much racket a lot of the time. You can't even hear the band. So yeah, they're going nuts They went crazy over that. Well in yeah in my opinion They're not sometimes people will say like are you joking buddy's so much better than gene. I see it as like gene was like a He made it okay. He popularized to be a cool drummer And buddy just buddy just has this like I don't think it's a who's better kind of thing Because they're just different but in my opinion buddy though is You put him against anyone today Modern times instagram drummers He's just gonna rip it. I mean buddy is like from another planet. Basically it it would seem so um It is an interesting it's interesting to see them go at it. Yeah Gene obviously is his style was basically a lot of singles Buddy was he was born with it and but he as far as what he was playing Yeah, it was technically as far above anything gene was doing but Gene had had a thing about him that Grew everyone to him. Yes. And just the way he looked when he was playing Like lily belson the famous quote from lily belson said you could put A dozen drummers up on the stage and one of them would be gene Buddy would come out there and do What buddy always did and then gene had come out and play something really simple and the crowd would go crazy So yeah, he he just had he just had that thing So yeah, and of course as far as the battle that wasn't just with gene. We balson Had done some of the battles of buddy and with genes. Yeah, and there's max roach too, right? I think he did a battle Yeah, I know that even going up into the sixties probably they were doing that sort of thing but again The the audio isn't out there for any of us to hear all you can really do is just read the stories about him Which is kind of sad. Sure. Yeah, hopefully one day they'll pop up somewhere. Yeah. All right. Well, so We're in the fifties. We're in this time when he's still playing with jazz at the Philharmonic, right? And then they're doing the battles What happens after that? Actually, he got married to Marie in 1953 which Going back to gene actually gene croupe again. He was married at that point that he Was there he dated Marie for some time and introduced it to them together and Buddy fell in love immediately With her and it started dating and eventually got married And at that point he had joined Harry James's band. So he was playing with harry harry's big band And at that time buddy was making I think part of the reason he joined harry is the amount of money he was going to give him because Buddy needed the money and Harry offered him Rumored to be around $1,500 a week. It's pretty that's very good. I'll forget mine. Yeah Yeah, I consider 1953. I don't even know what that comes out to and No, 2019 but that's a lot of money. Absolutely. Yeah Yeah, I'm in a Mandarin Kathy his daughter's only daughter. She was born in 1954 and apparently that That was she became the light of his life. So he He changed a little bit it softened up a little bit having a daughter. Yeah, I can see that Yeah, but yeah, he's playing with harry. He's actually in and out of harry james's band for For several years throughout the the 50s up until the early 60s and But then 1959 is when he had his first heart attack Okay, so he was he was relatively young at that point and Around that time too a little bit earlier to he got into singing again And there was even a time when he he had recorded a couple albums that were just purely him singing And he at one point decided that he was just going to give up drumming and become a singer. Wow and Thank god. He didn't do it. But uh, no, I've never heard about for a while. I've never heard him sing. Is he good? He's actually there actually was a fairly good singer He he obviously wasn't at the level of frank or tony dan at any of those guys No, but yeah, he was a pretty good singer and you can Yeah, you're going back to youtube if you want to pop up there There's some of those albums up there one of them called buddy rich sings So in this 50s era, um one thing that I love Watching is videos of buddy On old shows like the steve allen show. I think he was on like the mike douglas show and then obviously Probably more into the 60s became a very frequent guest on the johnny karson show So buddy buddy liked to be out in the world. He liked to be visible, right? He liked people to see what's going on and stay uh stay in people's living rooms basically, right? Oh, yeah, and then you like his personality and his humor especially going back to the karson videos A lot of the times you want to watch him just talk Rather than Let him do a play. Yeah, yeah, he had a really good sense of humor. It was pretty quick with And so yeah, that was he'd be pretty hilarious at times and And then johnny also had the same thing that it seemed like that he had with frank sanatra and then with Mel termin who was one of his best friends Yeah It seemed like they would be fighting like cats and dogs one second and then best friends the next second Yeah, they're just he's just the kind of guy everyone knows people like that where your friends with someone But you guys just maybe you're too similar and you just start budding heads and you you like You just kind of rib each other and poke fun at each other and I know um so Didn't buddy give johnny a drum set a Ludwig drum set. Is that right? Yeah, actually i'm trying to think Whether it was a Ludwig or a sling or a set there's a there's a clip of Johnny getting interviewed on 60 minutes. I believe it was it really was 2020 Yeah, that it was at his house in malibu and yeah, he had that set there in his house the buddy had given him and A while back, I believe I'm drawing a blank on his name the the guy that sells all the celebrity drum sets I believe he may have been the one that had that particular set that went out for sale not too long ago Gosh, that's gotta be uh worth some money. Yeah, my understanding That was the fact because he lived in malibu right on the on the beach there that the drums had gotten from the salt water They were pretty gotten pretty rusty from being out there But yeah, oh boy. It doesn't matter what shape they're in a buddy played it. They're going to be worth the fortunes Yeah, yeah, yeah, but going back to the the time frame where it's talking about he actually had last Ludwig or wfl what you can he had last thing Johnny Rogers your arms back in 1959, which rogers had become considered to have like a drum at that point And uh, you'll see those Harry jeans videos and playing that rogers set And it's most most people There wasn't those 90s or one of the best time frames for him as long as playing those rogers your arms sounded great played them up until 67 when CBS took over rogers And he wanted to get his band recorded at that point. We haven't kind of got to that point But uh, they didn't want to record his band So he left the rogers at that point in the late 60s, so But if you if if you want to kind of go up to that point 66 is when he decided to reform his own big band Gotcha, is it the buddy rich big band? Yeah, he had he gone through a couple different names later in the 70s what they called the band They eventually called it the big band machine and the killer force band barely on yeah Yeah, the buddy rich big band the the the various albums you've heard the mercy mercy Swing a new big band, which is the first album he did cool And that's around the time that he got to be friends with Johnny Carson So he was starting to get bucked on the tonight show. So he was on there pretty frequently Yeah, we have to talk about obviously which which I kind of avoid like in in the stuff that I post online is just Buddies I let I let it stay in the comments people talking about it, but his his uh His temper is obviously pretty legend legendary where um It It's a fact that buddy is could be kind of a mean guy to his bandmates and to various people in his band So, um, I don't know if you have any insight on that Yeah, it all just kind of goes back to him the fact that I'm being such a perfectionist And he come down to it. Yeah, those Bus tapes that everyone's heard. Yeah, unfortunately so many people there's instantly think I got he's a jerk No one could be like that to talk to people like that and he's got to be the worst Worst human on the planet, and I think it all just comes back to the fact that when he played He played pretty much at a level that most people couldn't possibly achieve And he played that way all the time and he expected anyone he played but to be that way as well Yeah, so if they weren't playing that way he went off on him. Yeah. Yeah No, that makes sense the way it was ultimately a lot of those cases that you the with the bus tapes the one that uh Everyone's heard or anyone wasn't this is probably heard Is there's a trombone player that he goes off on there the australian trombone player Ultimately with that he didn't even fire and he a lot of times he would Say you're fired and If he did fire him a lot of the times they he hired right back on the dance. Well, yeah Wow, I kind of see it we talked about before I think you said in 1959 he had his first heart attack In my mind, it's always kind of gone together with he's a very high strung kind of like Running hot kind of guy. Was that the was there a different medical reason behind his heart attack? Or was it just like hypertension kind of like stuff? Was there more to it? Well, as far as I know there was Possibly part of the fact just the fact that he's playing the way he did. Yeah, so often Just the amount of energy that goes into that that's people that aren't tremors don't realize the amount of energy that goes into playing Especially The type of music that he played and he was a loud player Yeah, so that's that's a lot of energy or expelling right there And from my understanding he especially a little bit later on he didn't have exactly the best diet Being on the road all the time. He had a lot of junk food. Yeah, that probably contributed to The heart problems. Now what just it's probably a weird question. But how tall was buddy? Uh, it's only about Five eight five nine. I believe okay nine maybe he's just it's again. It's just that whole thing of this this Just absolute monster on the drums, but he's just such he's a small guy and um I just think it all kind of goes together the the the aggression and the attitude and the Passion and the drumming and it's just like it's a lot for his body to um To handle. Oh, yeah, and then the other problem that he eventually had is uh with back problems with Sheen had him as well as part of the reason for that is just the way Drums that were designed back at that point with drum thrones. He always played on a on a canister throne and those are the set height and Buddy like most jazz drummers big band players at the time they sat really high And he'd be slumped over when you're playing. Yeah, and eventually you start having back problems He ended up having back surgery It's in the 60s. I believe at some point he had back surgery as well Jesus. Yeah, you see the silhouette of like Jean or buddy and it's just this Hunched over the drum set kind of shape to their body, which everyone looks at it now and goes that's not that's not good That's not going to be good. Yeah. Yeah on those days I wouldn't thought about ergonomics or anything like that. This went out there and played and then buy it No, I never thought or I've got I've got any proteins and nor my fat and all that sort of stuff He just yeah, what do you want a day eating smoke? So we're a lot of the expense for You know, apparently it had been smoking swapping weeds such as in his teens and he did that pretty consistently his whole life Wow, so yeah, that's interesting when you think of the the 1943 drug bust of gene krupa and Jean was like a Not that he's just not a a weed guy. He's not smoking weed yet. He got busted for it and buddy was uh, kind of openly a smoker Oh, yeah, I want to see pictures of buddy where he's got I kind of remember one of those it says like a marijuana growers Something or other that's on one of his teachers that he wore and it was in one of the pictures We'll see you have them. But yeah, he like we are strong. He smoked pot and he he didn't hide it at all so Yeah, whether whatever your opinions of or that Or whether that could have potentially caused health problems in the long run. It's yeah, certainly could be possible Sure. Sure. Yeah. All right. So I keep having just random thoughts pop into my mind here as we're talking about this What before I forget? Buddy's hair. I know it's a bizarre question, but he's kind of everyone knows I actually didn't realize until like a few years ago I was like, oh, you know what he is wearing his hair is always different and like, oh, yeah So he wore a toupee, correct? Yeah, I think he was in his 40s probably when he was lost his hair to the point where he started wearing toupees and Unfortunately, unfortunately if you look at a lot of those appearances that he had on Carson and whatnot Of these beatle type Yeah wigs and some of them don't work through yet And he went he changed it quite a bit. So he'd see him One year and he'd have a short haircut and then the next year it'll be long Yeah, it was pretty noticeable in some of those videos Louis Belson as well had a Wore a toupee for a long time and it was it was pretty noticeable. Yeah Okay, whatever floats your boat. I guess exactly. There's no negative thing. It's just a funny side note You get you always get a comment online that says like buddy's toupee or something whenever you post a video of it Some of them are so obvious. You can't help but notice it. So yeah, yeah, really now Okay, while I'm still just spitting out random questions here buddy and his Karate I guess it was judo. What was what was his role with martial arts? I mean was this was that passion? Going along during this time Well, actually he was the judo instructor in the short amount of time. He was in the marines back in 44 he was a judo instructor was one of the things he did So he had been into martial arts going way back, but I think he got more It became more of a serious thing for him Probably in the late 60s Into the 70s where he got into that so Yeah, so it was it. I think he used a lot more to To relax more than anything. He wasn't out there And getting actively in fights with people but as you said, it was just something that To know that you had the ability to To protect yourself and people around you was was a good thing for him to have but Yeah, but yeah, that's something he was into. He was actually on I think it was the wide world of sports It was the time where he was actually on that as a clip of him Uh, it's just the audio the commentary along with whoever the the host of the show was they were watching Martial arts matches and buddy was along with the With the sports reporter on there giving his commentary on the match So he he was pretty He was pretty knowledgeable in it apparently. I don't know enough about it to tell whether it's right or wrong But but he's a black belt. I mean he's he's as Yeah, yeah, he's he's a real deal Fighter another reason you don't really want to mess with buddy for for the multitude of reasons. So All right, so back on track here. I think we were getting through in the 60s Um, his time on Carson. He's he's being seen all over. He's a household name still He's everywhere, right? Yeah, once he reformed his big band in 66 For the most part he he was out. He had that big band until To the day he died. So, uh, it was pretty much at that point where he was playing constantly Which in the end that's that's something that was obviously detrimental to his health But he was especially when you get into the 70s where his band Was getting younger and younger. He was hiring a lot of people out of music schools And playing a lot of rock type Arrangements or a big band arrangements of rock songs like norwegian wood And that's that's something that got a lot of the younger people in to listen to the band because he was playing colleges and high schools Things like that. So he was touring pretty constantly on top of all the appearances that he was making on television He was a pretty busy guy at that point. He's a busy guy. And I guess he's living that uh, that kind of He's living that kind of lifestyle. Was he a los angeles guy, I would imagine Well, in his heart, he was always a new yorker. Yeah from brooklyn. Yeah, uh, they had actually lived at various places that he had a house in In florida at one point and then while he was With perry james and they moved to las vegas and also in and he was living out in california But he had also had There is this the fact that he often spent money, unfortunately And he had some issues with irs in the 60s Unfortunately they'd already moved from las vegas, but the irs ended up taking our house Las vegas and so he had lost all of that in the late 60s Okay, but then yes, by the beginning of waiting lives. It wasn't really anything that really worried him that much So he just went on and did what he did. Yeah, he he seems resilient. He's like he'll bounce back Um, I mean he's buddy rich. So someone will always hire him. It seems like that's the case He doesn't need to worry about finding a job Yeah, well and then in the early 70s, there was a point where he had Broke up the band his big band for a while and that's when they opened a buddies place up manhattan Which uh, stanley k who was his one of his best friends and he was the backup drummer If you want to call it that back in his first big band back in the 40s They had become best friends But by the time he had opened buddies place stanley k was the the manager of that club and He had formed a buddy formed a septet and they were playing there when he was over in town and then Other bands would play in there That particular club really didn't last all that long It closed down within the same year, but then they opened up buddies place too, which is a bigger place It was down on a ground level that could actually hold a big band. So He had reformed the big band. That's when the album big band machine came out and they were playing buddies place Yeah, buddy's place number two. Wow He's a businessman at this point. He's he's a business owner Well, he really didn't have anything to do with the operation of the club and if my understanding He really didn't put anything into it from a monetary standpoint But it was a place with his name on it where he could play when he was out there, which was what he wanted So and at that time he Whenever he was out there he had an apartment. He stayed in uh in new york Okay, so we're at the point into the into the mid 70s now So this is what i've said earlier about the different names. He had for the bands. He had the killer fourth Band which most people consider probably his best band And into the last mid the latter 70s and uh around that time actually in 79 that's when he Had left slayer link because he went to slingerland in 69 or 68. I believe it was and then he Uh left them In 79 to go back to Ludwig. So it was kind of kind of all all over the place Now he would sometimes get in trouble for I know there's some stories of he was using I know he really liked Fibes snare and then there's just these periods where buddy briefly played like Trixen like I said fives. He loved the the Ludwig super sensitive, right? So did he There there there are stories where he gets in trouble for using drums that he's not supposed to be using, right? Yeah, I after he had left rogers and 66 he he had uh, initially had joined Trixen which Trixen drums when they were marketed in the u.s. They were labeled vox. Yeah So that sometimes seemed different labels on him, but he was only with uh Vox for six months or so And then he went to fives He actually played a whole five set for a really short amount of time He apparently didn't like them other than the snare drum. He loved the snare drums being fiberglass drums There that particular drum he really liked at the he was always on a constant quest to get a really sensitive drum And that particular that fives drum apparently got him what he wanted So even after he lost fives and went back to Swingirland again in 68 69 He still continued to use that fives drum a lot of the time and he really didn't care whether Swingirland Knew it or not and so that That rubbed uh rubbed them along the wrong way. Obviously. Yeah Isn't there something where he's playing on an album cover and he's got the wrong snare or something like that or a poster So you're probably thinking of the uh Ronnie scott's album where it's it's uh, it's a side view and you can see that that fight drum is blatantly Sitting there in Swingirland set. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's exactly. Yeah, that's one of the things that Swingirland didn't like too much is him endorsing them and then using another snare, but Buddy was buddy. He was gonna play that whether they liked it or not. Yeah That's the thing is is once he's for some reason, I don't know what the reason behind it was maybe He finally found a different scenario like when he went to Ludwig. He started playing the super sensitive which if you've ever played one of those that's it's Going to be a similar type thing. Those are really sensitive drums. They're very loud and He never played that fives drum again once he went back to Ludwig in 78 you only played Ludwig during that period of time so it My presumption is that if he continued to like that fives drum, he didn't care a lot, but thank you for this That he didn't so Yeah, yeah, because he's a very dynamic player where those little ups and downs I'm sure he knows what he likes and he He sticks with it and then he finds something new and he goes for it. So that's that's cool. That's good to know Yeah uh Because of this point here you're bottom up to where the moped shell which For so I unfortunately seem to be one of the only things a lot of people even know about buddy It's him being on the Muppet show that happened in 1981 And finally saying it's Kathy that kind of got him to do that really to do the Muppet show because he thought it was Just what kid show I guess and whether I want to do that that he He went over to England where they filmed all those and had a really good time doing it and that's become kind of the One of the seminal clips of buddy is seeing him battle animal. Yeah during that which was actually Ronnie Varell who is a British one of the best British big band drummers was the guy that did the drum parts. Yeah, that's that's so funny how it's That's what people think of and if you google buddy rich That'll pop up right away It's just nuts how Ronnie Varell Varell can can hang with buddy and then the puppeteering side of it to make to queue up animal that's always been kind of a uh interesting logistical kind of How they did that kind of the question I've always had because I mean animal is pretty spot on with what he's doing Yeah, well as close as you can be with a little toy drum set with a local Tom. Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, Ronnie though he played with head Heath who If you know anything about a British big band head Heath who had one of the biggest British big bands for years and Ronnie was one of the The big drummers for many years with that band. So he definitely He obviously wasn't up to buddy's level But he could definitely hold his arm. So yeah, no, that's awesome. Now. All right, so if we're in 81 How is buddy's health right now? He had his first heart attack years before How many Did he have he had multiple heart attacks, right? So how many so how was he doing up until this? You know in 1981. Well, this is at the point where It was starting to get to the point where he was starting to have some issues because it was 83 when it all kind of came to a head As far as the lifestyle he had eating bad food that sort of thing that it was in real early in 1983 that they were performing up in Ann Arbor and I believe it was in the middle of the night. He ended up call waking up and calling the The house phone there at the the hotel to get a doctor there and that's when he had had his major heart attack and wound up He done from the videos you've seen on the interviews The first thing he remembers is waking up with all the tubes sticking out of him and after having a quadruple bypass Oh boy, so Yeah, he supposedly came within a just a short few minutes of Cutting out of dying. So god How many heart attacks total did he had did he have how many heart attacks did he have? Uh, actually just two. Okay. I understand it. Okay. Okay. That original one and then the second one and then of course back surgery Yeah Got it. That's plenty on this You don't you don't want any more. No, no, but so in so in 83 he goes from being I mean in two years earlier. He's he's having his huge You know again a lot of people see it on the Muppet show two years later. He's he's out of commission So did he did he pop back? I know I've seen Multiple videos of him playing after that. But yeah, did he did he snap right back or was that a long? A long haul and on top of that didn't frank Sinatra, is that what he paid for his his recovery after that? I believe a lot of that was when in the latter years He was because buddy in that ed toward the end there. He was Obviously when he the brain tumor and everything He was needing in-home care that sort of thing. So I think that frank was helping He was paying for him to get flown back and forth that sort of thing But the the initial one the one in 83 Stranger amazingly enough against all advice he ended up going back out on the road and From my understanding it was pretty much exactly 10 weeks after he added heart attack He was over in the uk playing at ronnie scott's. Oh my gosh. So The doctors had told him that he had to take at least six months Or a year off after having that heart attack but He had already had all these commitments made and Being the way he was he wasn't gonna back out on those dates that he had already had No in the calendar god and and did you see a after that? Did you see at least a dip and kind of uh, the like Just full force buddy. Did he did he like dial it back a hair or was it still? Absolutely pouring sweat all over the drum set going insane buddy rich style To be honest, I you don't really see any much of a difference. There's there's different times during his career where you see Where the ferocity changes a little bit but as far as for a physical standpoint I don't think that that heart attack a major heart attack at any effect on him at all physically he had he had said that Initially when he was staying at home afterwards that he had started the depression that people get after something like that happens that He tried the old sticks and couldn't hold on to him and he thought it was over with Yeah, yeah And eventually got where he was able to start playing a little bit again and Once he started bolting the strength back up Well, then I'm very short of my time. He was back after 100 percent again Geez, but the family Kathy didn't even go out to that particular show She went towards many of his concerts but wouldn't go to that one because She was afraid he was gonna die right on the bandstand. Oh my god. Okay, because at this point We're at the 83 84 mark. I mean he did not have much more time Until no his his you know the end of his life Yeah, but uh, but when he went back at this particular period, even after having that going through the problem with the bypass I've never looked at actual numbers or shows he had it was probably Is it probably equal or even more Busy than it was before the heart attack Because I've seen pictures of the calendars. They're good calendars Where it's pretty much every day of the week they're playing flying from or beyond the bus going from one place to another high schools colleges uh At that point he was I think was pretty much every Three months he was on Johnny Carson Yeah, yeah, yeah, even the floor down one bed No and to think from 18 months old Till this point the guy's just been going I mean man Yeah, it's nuts I can't imagine anyone getting all that. Well, I'm saying in the big band I think a lot of that is just again going through obviously through the depression and during those years where To be able to eat you had to work. Yeah, so that was just something that's kind of in bread to you growing up You're in a time period that he did that uh You don't you don't Leave work or cancel a gig just because you don't feel good He would be sicker than the dog and still go out there and play and you wouldn't even notice that he was sick so That's that's kind of saying people Unfortunately don't to a lot of extent a great extent don't breathe these days No, but a little bit of cold just take off work Yeah, but he buddy seems like one of his issues is taking care of himself. He's not good at it He's not good at listening to his body and realizing that in the long run He'd be better if he just relaxed for a little bit Which basically brings us to 1987. How did it all unless there's anything before that what what happened towards the end there? You know, just to add on to what you were saying is that uh Even after you had the heart attack and a molten head said that The first time he went to meet him was saying he had the bypass surgery But he walked into the place with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. So he He decided that he was still going to eat the way you want to do smoke if you want to do Whatever he didn't change. He didn't change his lifestyle at all. He figured that Hey, they fixed fixed my heart I'm back good as new again. I guess so You didn't change his life that much, but you got to kind of figure after he had the heart attack It was it was kind of a downhill slide at that point He started looking older and everything kind of came to my head It was around let me think when I was within 80 Yeah, I was in early 87 when they filmed the last public live video that you ever see ever his last performance on pvs Was filmed in i think january of 87 which ended up being his last performance and It was only a couple weeks after that that He was out on a walk. This was actually out in new york. He was at his apartment in new york and playing of course and but he was out on a walk and his left arm Just started twirling around by itself uncontrollably And he grabbed the whole of it trying to get it to stop. It couldn't couldn't even get his arm to stop and Initially they thought he had a stroke, but ultimately the doctor has confirmed that he had a brain tumor. Oh boy so He wanted to Then to do that in new york He wanted to get back home and I believe this is the one where there was actually frank sinatra that Got a flight out there for him to go back to california And even at that point he was still having those Whatever you want to call him or there was a spasm seizure or whatever even on the on the flight back She's dealing with that like and that would be his arm uncontrollably Yeah, basically and in the left side of his body. Yeah, the left side of his body was Tingly getting numb so Ultimately they they determined that was inoperable So the only thing he's gonna be able to do is go through chemotherapy And there's a bad way as we found out that that that didn't solve the problem And the short time later, uh, he had Come that went in for some of his normal treatments getting chemotherapy Went back to he was actually staying with a friend that had a home where they could have In a home nursing care form but he'd just return from getting one of his chemo treatments and Had a massive seizure and Our failure And that was that Geez and that was on april second right because it's it's funny I always remember that because that's that's my birthday. I was born three years later on april second. Yeah, so I'm always like, oh, that's kind of a downer but What an interesting guy now was he At the point of his death when frank was helping him and stuff Was he financially pretty tapped out at that point from all the medical bills or did he kind of did he did he die? A wealthy man or a poor man No, it doesn't appear that he no You didn't have much money at that point and I think a lot of that is not necessarily even to do with medical reasons It's just The way he lives his life. Yeah, don't worry about yeah, not worry about saving money having nice clothes and All that sort of thing. So yeah, he never You would think someone who had uh over those different periods being a such a high paid performer that you would have Uh a bank account full of cash, but he never did. Geez. Wow Man, so then that's the end of uh, buddy's life and and I am just like there are so many things I had questions about and um, We all like buddy But he was almost um, I think you said it earlier his own worst enemy when it came to his health and his body and just his Attitude and um, that's wild man. I am uh, I'm blown away and I'm beyond grateful for you taking the time to Take me through all this stuff. No, it's my pleasure. I'm happy to be on here and hopefully it's Hopefully it gets a little more information out there correct information. I hope that uh, people can take from that without having to do a lot of reading or Answer some questions if they have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This whole thing is to make it so I don't have to read ever Just talk to you talk to you guys Oh trust me. Yeah, because I there's several books out there on buddy A lot of them unfortunately aren't in print anymore But I've yeah, but there's at least five or six different books out there that uh, You can do a lot of reading that goes way further in depth on that. Sure Well, all right. So now as we wrap up, let me just tell people that um, again, you can find Sean On social media and you can fill in what I'm missing here But I know that you have on as far as buddy goes You have some facebook pages, right? Why don't you tell us uh, quickly tell us about what where people can find those Well, the the two different i'm actually just a moderator on a couple different facebook groups I wasn't the one that started them, but I was um, I'm up there as a moderator Uh, what I'm just called buddies lounge if you just search for that buddy rich buddies lounge And a second one is called buddies place Search for that as well And my but I've had a you'd mentioned as far as gene krupa goes How about a gene krupa website since? 1997 everywhere you can find me online if anyone has any interest in finding me If you just go up to drummer man Dot net I have links for all the different groups on facebook that I post on if anyone's interested Yeah, and um your instagram page you can find him at the crippled drummer and on youtube at drumitar Like drum and guitar Smashed into one there dr um ui t ar Yeah without the g that's drum and guitar Get rid of the g and that's that's one of those yep, and there is a uh, just endless supply of videos and also just classic audio and um, and all that stuff So again, everyone should go out and check out everything. Sean's doing and um and keep up with him, but Cool Sean well, I won't take up any more of your time man. This has been amazing to learn all about this and um I just can't wait to to look for more buddy rich videos and and post them because they they do better than every other video that I post online So this has been a blast exactly Go on I appreciate it. I'm definitely gonna keep checking out your your podcast is Great, there's anyone else that they're doing there's only other one podcast I know of and it doesn't cover the type of information you do so I appreciate it. Oh, yeah. No, I'm I'm honored to have you on here so um Great, I appreciate the kind words and uh, and we'll be in touch. So um, again, everyone check out Sean martin online at all the various buddy and gene pages and uh, that's it Sean thanks for being on the show man. All right. Thanks a lot barp. All right. Talk to you later Thanks for listening guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode I wanted to add on a little bit of information here that Sean sent me after we recorded He said even in buddy's last few days when he spent a lot of his time sleeping and was paralyzed on his left side He was still making phone calls intended to keep a scheduled gig Playing with his right arm and right foot only He had broken his arm at one time in the 40s and actually still gigged with one arm in a cast So buddy cannot be stopped. Um, and then another little bit of information I found out is um So Sean said he made $1,500 a week while playing with harry james And I did the math here with a website that does the inflation calculator and that equals $13,200 A week and if you do that 52 weeks a year His annual salary would have been $686,000 in modern time So buddy was doing pretty well for himself at that point. Um, cool. Well, thank you guys for listening and I will see you on the next episode If you like this podcast, find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning This is a gwin sound podcast