 And let's get to our panel. We have right next to me, Tan Sri Dhantho Sharil Chamsuddin, President and Group CEO, Malaysia's Sapura Kanchana Petroleum. And we have his Excellency, Natik Aliyev, Azerbaijan's Minister of Energy, the Honorable Sudirman Saeed, Indonesia's Minister of Energy and Mineral Resources, Melody Boone Meyer, President Chevron Asia Pacific Exploration and Production Company, Chevron Corporation Singapore, Admiral Harry Harris, Commander of the US Pacific Fleet of the US Navy. So we have a very distinguished panel. And ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to kick off with this extreme price movement that's triggered so much debate, especially in recent times about how genuine the recovery has been. So Sharil, it's been really a fast moving drama with so many stakeholders wondering where the price direction is. From where you sit, you're a fully fledged oil and gas player. What will give you convincing signs that this recovery is on an uptrend? Thank you very much. And I'm honored to be here with such distinguished panelists. From my point of view, I think at the end of the day, we have to go back to basics, which is supply and demand. And we also have to come to terms that this is a cyclical industry where you will have prices go up and go down over the long term. But I'd say the light at the end of the tunnel is that in the long term, we'll always see demand growing. And I believe within the next two to three years, we'll see price come to an optimum level. It is very clear that over the past 10 years has been a boom in the industry. And prices have gone up. Cost of extraction has gone up. And this correction will force industry like ourselves to optimize and find new ways of extracting hydrocarbons at a more effective and efficient price. I think this is very important because if we put it in the context of the development of any region, energy is a very important resource and a very important catalyst to propagate and catalyze development of the area itself. And if we don't keep it down at an optimum level, then we would find development of consumption, economic areas will be retarded. We also have the challenge of supply. We will see growth coming from the Asia, greater Asia region to about 80% of global growth. And we will see Asia becoming an important in the next decade or so. So it's even more important that this area utilize its investment in developing this resource in the most effective way. It is a big base of population here. If this population in this Asian region or Asian region progresses, it will then generate consumption and the needs for goods and services that would come from other areas. So since we are in an interconnected environment ecosystem, there is a need to make sure that there is security, there is investment coming into this area over the long term to ensure the development of the area itself. So when I first looked at the title geopolitics, I asked myself what's the end of it? What's geopolitics for? What is the outcome? I guess why do we have geopolitics? Why does it exist? I think that's the question we need to ask ourselves today, maybe. Is it to develop an ecosystem that is self-perpetuating and even across, or are we arguing for islands of prosperity in different regions? So I guess that's my opening statement. Overall, everybody is saying that we're ultimately in a long-term uptrend. But if you take a look at what the oil majors are doing, we'll get a melody to comment in just a little bit. In the end, it seems like maybe it might not be the case because we have more supply evidently coming onto the market. So from where you sit, just along the Caspian Sea, Minister Aliyev, the recent oil route, it certainly dented your state finances. But do you, as a host country, are you still stepping up CAPEX in investment? Thank you so much. First of all, I would like to say that I'm very pleased to be here in Jakarta in such a significant event like the World Economic Forum. And I came from Azerbaijan, like you say, its country on the west side of the Caspian Sea. And if we speak about geopolitics, I would like to say that now the energy is the main factor of stability, development of each country. And if we would like to develop our economy, we have to secure our energy supply, demand, diversification routes and so on. That is why I think that in our country, in Azerbaijan, when we start our new oil strategy, we increase our production last 20 years five times. And it is due to investments in the energy sector. It was due to inviting very major companies of the world on the energy sector to develop with Azerbaijan their national resources. And I would like to say what we have now. First of all, I would like to say that we fully secure our energy supply and energy resources. We are now an independent country and we are a net export country in this region, only Black Sea region. Only Black Sea region, among 12 countries, only Russia and Azerbaijan is net export countries. And our countries are important countries. And it is very important for Azerbaijan because we stable now our oil production on the level of 42 million tons. And it is enough for so small country like Azerbaijan with small populations. But ultimately your fortunes are changing because oil production is on a steady decline. And we'll pick up on that in just a little bit. Minister Sudirman of Indonesia, you used to be, Indonesia used to be an OPEC member, but now you are a net importer. What's interesting is that the recent oil route has given a tailwind for a country with a moniker of the fragile five, if you remember, of the taper tantrum. But now the fortunes look different. But is there a certain threshold that will encourage your government, force your government to reinstate those subsidies? I think the unique position of Indonesia is, yes, we are now importing fuel but also exporting energy resources, which is coal. We provide a large amount of coal to the world. So with the current price, I think it is something that actually giving benefit for us because of the importing price would be down. But also the most important thing is that we have already reformed the way we financed the fuel, which is removing subsidies is a quite significant move, which now the market has become healthier and we are at the beginning of attracting more investment to improve our resources but going forward, I think it is time to think about mixing the energy more on the portion of renewable because yes, we are declining in terms of fuel, in terms of fossil, but actually Indonesia has a lot of resources in terms of renewable energy. That is the new direction that we have to set up for the future. We'll also get your perspective later on in a lot of the outlook ahead. Indonesians have to become a trillion-dollar economy in a couple of years. Melody, you are in the position of a global oil major among the big giants who are announcing CAPEX declines. I know that you probably don't look at the spot market very much, but is there a certain level that will prompt you guys to say, okay, we're going to revise our CAPEX funding plans a couple of years down the road? So thank you, Chloe, for the opportunity to be here as well, and I also want to thank Minister Sadeerman and our Indonesian hosts for hosting such a wonderful World Economic Forum in the region. It's an honor to be here. So we take a long-term view of prices. Our investments in oil and gas operations energy development lasts for decades, so we have to take and we do take a long-term view. We continue to believe that global demand for oil and gas will continue to grow while existing sources of supply will inevitably decline. These commodity cycles are common in our industry. In fact, the price of oil in the last 30 years has fallen five times at 50%, a 50% drop five times in the last 30 years. So it's not uncommon to see this kind of volatility in the industry. While there's a surplus of supply right now, inevitably we believe that decline will occur. If you look at the surplus, you could estimate about a 2 million barrel per day annual surplus that exists in the market right now. But if you look at producing fields that will decline on average or at minimum a 3% per year, that's about a 3 million barrel decline in a year just with a normal decline rate. So if you look at the surplus of 2 million barrels and the annual decline rate, there is a point in time where supply and demand does come into balance. The important thing is to continue, for us the focus is to continue the projects that are under development. We have a lot of projects under development that we believe are well supported at the price levels and as projects will continue to move forward to completion. And like all other companies, we look hard at projects that are not yet in the investment decision or those projects that are short cycle projects to make sure that they create value in the volatile market. So our view really is to look at long-term supply. Right, and that's probably something Admiral Harris agrees with. When you look at the geopolitical security, especially from an energy security perspective, you're looking at battles that are on a 100-year horizon. For instance, the tensions that you see emanating from the South China Sea, a vital artery for oil and gas, and China building the great wall of the sand. Do you think that this is something that is going to disrupt the geopolitical landscape much further down the road? Well, thank you, Chloe, for that question. And let me also add my thanks to those of the panelists. To the World Economic Forum for hosting this event and for Indonesia for hosting all of us here today. Let me start off by saying that I'm the furthest thing from an energy sector expert that you're ever going to see. But I am an expert in application of military force in support of our national security interests. And we have national security interests in this region. I think that the global economy is now more interconnected than ever. And globalization fuels prosperity. But prosperity requires unfettered access. It requires freedom of navigation throughout the waters of the world, and especially in this region. You don't have to read Robert Kaplan to know that the center of gravity for the global economy has shifted to the Indo-Asia Pacific region. So we have our vested security interests here. As Chloe said, there are many disputes in the region, and the United States doesn't take a position on those disputes. But we do take a position on the peaceful resolution of those disputes. You know, seven of the world's ten largest militaries are in the Indo-Asia Pacific region. So it is, we are awash in a sea of uncertainty out here. And uncertainty affects energy, security, trade, and commerce. I think that uncertainty affects, uncertainty rather creates unpredictable investment opportunities and an investment environment. And I think that there are nation states in the region that are contributing to the increase in provocations and tensions that affect that security and stability. And stability is good for business. Now, I'm not a business expert, but I think all the panelists who would agree that in order for business to flourish, you need to have a security environment that's stable, that allows that security to flourish. So I'm in favor of stability in the region, and we will do our part to help in place security and stability in the region. So Mr. Arbill, we also have something else to contend with territorial disputes and resource nationalism. Given this oversupplied, depressed price environment, we're also awaiting something crucial, Iran's nuclear deal. Do you think it's going to sail through the finish line? If so, what is going to be the impact on the oil and gas sector? I'm not sure whether I've qualified to comment on that, but on border disputes and oil fees will cut across different countries. I think we've seen models here in Asia where this worked really well, where we can have co-development of the area, like Malaysia and Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand, Malaysia and Brunei, where we have co-development of these areas, and we share the profits of the extraction and the process of extracting, together with the host countries, where we use this opportunity to develop the local support and local industry in extraction of the hydrocarbons itself. I think this has been a working formula in ASEAN especially in developing hydrocarbons in disputed areas. And I think this is probably a good way forward where we find a win-win situation over dispute and a lot of issues goes away. Number one, the political tension goes away, security tension goes away, and we prosper together in the economic value in extracting hydrocarbons. Yeah, this is probably a really pertinent issue for Indonesia, aging oil and gas fields, but then again, you talk to investors, you talk to oil and gas company executives, they say it's fiscal uncertainty and waning investment that could pose a direct challenge, especially as you try to meet this growing population of 250 million. Just comment on the price prediction. I think no one has the right prediction because every prediction has been proven to be wrong. So I think at the end of the day, it's about finding new balance between the investor of the government and we, the government of Indonesia, acknowledge that, and that's why we really seriously reform the regulation, reform the way we do business. We're cleaning up the kitchen, so the sector is occupied by the credible people, a credible person so that we can provide leadership. And I think the partnership with the global community is really important and we understand that. So it is challenging task, but I think it's doable. And Chevron is the biggest oil producer in Indonesia. How have the challenges been? There have been long drawn out negotiations processes, such as the one involving Mahakam. Do you get the kind of conviction that Chevron is going to be a long-term player in Indonesia and beyond? So we're delighted to be a long-term partner with Indonesia and developing their resources. We've been in Indonesia for over 90 years, producing oil and gas, and we're committed to the country. We have a very strong workforce. We brought technologies into the country. About a thousand of our Indonesian employees have worked abroad in various locations. So the talent development and the long-term benefits have been quite good. So we've had a long history here. We take a long-term view. We believe in investing in the communities in which we operate. We're part of the communities here in Indonesia and Thailand and other countries. So we take a long-term view and we are a strong partner in the communities in which we operate. And Minister Aliyev Petronas has recently invested in Azerbaijan. Your exports are more heavily focused on Europe. But as Asia is said to be in the driver's seat, Com2035 is the biggest consumer of oil and gas. Do you see a significant shift in the way Azerbaijan has its future outlook? Yes, right. You know, the East Asia countries are very important for Azerbaijan and we are working to be increasing our comprehensive relations on the basis of mutual respect. And we have very wide trading traditions. And now Azerbaijan is, you know, on the export of oil. Indonesia is the number two for Azerbaijan after Italy. And we are trying to wide our cooperation. Petronas, like you mentioned, is the company who participated in a very huge project in Azerbaijan. It is Sheikh Deniz's unique world-class gas field in Azerbaijan. And we participate in stage two. We have shared in this project 15.5 percent. And we are very happy to have this company in our country. The second one, we are now on gas production. Azerbaijan mainly directed to East-South Europe. You know, but I think that in this case we will have a lot of opportunities to supply all the neighboring countries along the southern gas corridor. And I think that in the future we will be more active, not only in East, like I said, South-East Europe, but in East Asia as well. Yes, so we're talking about, thank you, sir. So as we talk about this cohesive environment, but in actuality, Admiral Harris, do you think that sparring interest over energy security in the future will actually create more economic uncertainty? I think there's a potential for that to happen. But I agree with the other panelists when we say that, you know, business is good for the economy, obviously, but it's also good for security. And I think all of these initiatives to improve the business climate in the region is going to be good for security. And I'm happy to be a part of that. Well, thank you very much. And so we're talking, we're in this peculiar environment. We started with this excessive price weakness that led to the biggest M&A in a decade. And then you also have potentially Iran coming into the market from different angles. We have different stakeholders here in the oil and gas industry. So for Sharia, you're upstream, but also downstream. The opening up of Iran, what does this mean? Does this mean a bonanza of opportunities or competition? We'll come back to the basics again. It's about supply and demand in terms of how investments will go in oil and gas. So what it means that if it does happen, then there'll be increase in supply, which means prices will probably be weaker. But then again, for one problem solved in one region, there's another occurrence in another region. So it's really difficult to predict what will happen in the future around this industry. So again, as Minister said, it is impossible to predict I've got an earliest question to Minister Aliyev. You've got this giant waking up in your doorstep. How are you going to deal with it if the sanctions are lifted? You know, I agree with my colleagues. And it is too difficult to predict the oil prices. But in my mind, we're involving Iran in the very huge oil production. It will be a very good signal sign for the economy because as soon as we produce more oil, it is giving us more opportunity to develop all the world economy. That is why, you know, I think that when we speak about the supply demand, it is just only one or two factors which are impact on the world price of oil. But there is a lot of, in other factors like your politics, you know, in the world we have many legions, hotspots, which are now in not only just conflict, but it is a big confrontation at its impact on the oil prices. Like I said, the relation between Russia and Ukraine, you know, the events on Syria and Yemen, on Nigeria and Libya and so on. This is the geopolitics factor. There are environmental factors because we need more and more spend the money and invest in the environmental issues. But I would like to say that for consumers and for production, producing countries, it is very important to have predictable prices because it is very important, not the volatility of the prices. It does not give some preferences for producing or consuming countries. But we would like, like a producing country, we would like the predictable prices on the world market. Thank you. Minister Sudhir Mana, a resurgent Iran, does this spell good news for Indonesia in terms of its energy needs? It depends on what perspective you look at this issue. As an importing country, I think this is good news because we have an alternative source of supply. Also the prices are going to be good for our budget. But as a producing country, it is also a pressure for the development of oil and gas in the future and also a pressure for the development of the future energy, which is always used the oil price as a cap as the benchmark. So I think in short term, I think it's going to be the benefit for the country. And Nellie, for Chevron, the Iranian deal, if sanctions are lifted, there are two elements, you've got oil and the other element is LNG. As you take a long term view, will it still affect Chevron's decision making process for LNG? After all, you have first gas happening in Australia's Gorgon in the third quarter of this year. So again, I think we have to look at the fundamentals on supply and demand and growth, particularly in this region. If you look at the next 20 years in this region, Asia will be the largest consumer of oil and gas, which will require a lot of oil growth and also gas. The estimates that LNG needs to double in the next 20 years is just to meet the demand growth in this region alone. So our focus is around trying to grow those supplies, offsetting declines that occur in natural and all fields around the world. There's inevitable declines. So in growing those oil and gas production to meet the demand growth over the region over time, and just the scale of the challenge to offset decline is quite significant when you're trying to meet growing demand. And I just think in a long-term sense, projects will come to market as prices support those and as the demand growth that we are expecting will materialize. And from where you said, is the future as optimistic in light of the fact that you started out as a telco, became a Malaysian champion, upstream, downstream, you're everywhere. But how are you going to take advantage of this Asian home base? Well, our business is global. Only about 50% of our business is in Asia right now. Well, it'll be about, again, delivering a service of its most optimized cost to our clients. We have to look at new technologies. We have to innovate in order to readjust ourselves and find the optimum price to deliver our services. There's no other way. That's the only thing that we can control. The price of oil will be the price of oil and it will continue to oscillate up and down over time. And coming back to the supply again, for whatever supply that comes out of the region, it will readjust the price. And the readjustment of the price, again, will probably shut down some other production elsewhere. So there is a self-adjusting mechanism for anything that is coming. But maybe that was a traditional way of thinking because I've read a fresh analysis that maybe we are under looking, underestimating the impact of renewables. I know that a lot of the panelists here want to talk about renewables because there is a weakening link between oil and driving. Maybe it's not just about the price. It's not just about the demand and supply. There's something new, you know, renewables. Maybe it's not just for tree huggers anymore. Melody, would you like to weigh in? So, you know, I think renewables need to be pursued where they can be pursued, invested in at scale, without subsidies. For our focus in the region has been around geothermal. Here in Indonesia and in Philippines, there are very strong geothermal resources that need to be developed. And we've been the largest developer of geothermal resources in the region between both countries. So I think there's a real opportunity in geothermal to partially enable the supply that's needed in this region. So it's a good opportunity. And Minister Sudiraman, I know that you're also keen to talk about renewables. That is the direction that Indonesia is heading towards. But you've got this intermittent supply. You've got windmills and solar panels here and there. How do you get that out to the metropolis? And it's about the supply and transport dynamics. How are you going to do that? It's as far-flung archipelago of Indonesia. Let me share some of the important numbers. The population of Indonesia is about 3.5% of the world. But we only have 1.2% of oil reserve. We only have 1.2% of the gas reserve. And we have about 3.5% of the coal reserve. Well, actually, the demand will be growing and growing. But we kind of neglect the potential of renewable energy, which is we have a lot of geothermal, like Melody said. We have a lot of sunshine. We have hydro. We have biofuels as tropical countries. In terms of how the government, whether serious or not, look at the 10 years ago when we spent 25 billion US for subsidy of fossil fuel. And if we could spend that much, the question is whether we are willing to move forward into supporting the industry, supporting the demand, supporting the market of renewable. This is a new challenge. And yet, I think Indonesia has to be seriously moved forward to invest on the renewable. And Minister Aliyev, the future of Azerbaijan, the country heavily reliant on oil and gas. What would it look like if the world, in fact, turns more heavily towards renewables? You know, Azerbaijan is traditionally oil and gas a country develop our industry more than 150 years. That is why it is traditionally. And all the economy of Azerbaijan is standing on the oil and gas sector. And we have a huge resources, you know, of oil, gas. That is why we start our first steps on using renewable energy. And we have now the program of the developing of renewables up to 2020. And we try to increase, you know, the share of renewables in the balance of energy supply up to 15-20%. And nowadays we have just only 2.53%. But we have a lot of opportunities. Like my colleague said, we have a very nice perspective for solar energy, for wind energy, because our upshot on peninsula is very, very windy. You know, we have the small rivers and we try. Now we have about 50 projects, you know, on using the small power stations on the small rivers, you know. And that is why we, but it is not the aim for us, you know. We, because we fully, like I said before, we fully secured our energy supply by our own domestic and local resources. But renewables for us now is like a future, you know, like to program how we effectively and economically, commercially we have to use our renewables energy. And Admiral Harris, final question to you. Ultimately, if the world makes better use of renewables, geothermal, solar, wind, I know that this is not your thing, but ultimately if countries become self-sufficient, does that make your job easier, much further down the road? I'm not sure that that's the only thing that complicates my daily routine. But certainly a reduction in tension would help my job. But I will tell you that the U.S. Navy and our military system, our military system is leading the effort in use of alternative fuels, whether it's biofuels and our Great Green Fleet Initiative that our Secretary of the Navy has pushed forward, whether it's using solar and wind at some of our installations. So I'm pleased with that and actually proud of the work that the Navy is doing to help energy conservation in the United States. Well, thank you very much for that. So what are your thoughts, really, members in the audience? Do you feel that we are, the renewables are going to make a difference in our future? We'd like to join, we'd like to get you to get involved in our conversation. I believe we have a couple of mics being passed around. So we'll start taking questions from the floor. You've been so gracious and kind in helping me get through the sticky process at the very start. Yes. Yes, sir. Please introduce yourself and tell us your question. Thanks. My name is Radar Toyberg of South Pole Group in Switzerland. My question is to Mr. Sudirman. The Indonesian government has done a revolutionary move to remove fossil fuel subsidies at the beginning of this year. My question is, Mr. Sudirman, in case oil prices go up again, will the subsidies come back or will you keep them out of the system? Okay. Hang on to that, Minister, because we'll take two more. We'll do three at a time. Yes, sir. Please introduce. Yeah, there's a lady coming towards you. So the first question was what I asked. At what price point fuel subsidies get reintroduced? Great question. And yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question to Admiral Harris. My name is Manfred. I'm from Switzerland, too. I'm a journalist. How worried are you, Admiral, about the empowerment of the Chinese naval forces? Because they are sooner or later challenging the American presence there, the Pacific Fleet, I guess. And the second question, how worried are you about the tension in the South China Sea, which is a hotbed from a political and economic point of view? And what are the plans of the United States to keep peace, as you mentioned before, is the overall goal of the United States in that area? Thank you. Thank you very much. So there were two questions. We'll first take from Minister Sudirman. Fuel subsidies, when they come back, all of a sudden oil shoots up to 70. I mean, ultimately, isn't the mega merger predicated on higher prices? A question of many people. And I said, and the President said that we will never retreat from this policy because it is healthy for the market, it is healthy for the energy management. Just for example, the importation of pertamina for the last couple of months is decreased for 30 percent because the smuggling issue is settled because there is a very tiny margin between the economic price and the subsidy price. So that is one of the benefits why we really are confident to continue. What about the price if it goes up? I think let's pray that the price will not go back to the normal time. And I think it is our effort to also educate people that we are no longer rich in terms of oil and gas. We are no net important. It's hard to do, but I don't want to fool my people that are still thinking historically. We feel that we are a rich country of oil and gas, but in fact we are importing. And it has been since seven years ago as an importing country. And would you also like to weigh in on the fact that Malaysia too got rid of its fuel subsidies, but instead there is something called GST for the first time? Well, all I can comment is fuel subsidy, I echo the opinion of the Minister. I can't speak for policy, but from a practical point of view I think excessive subsidy always will retard industry. Okay, great. And there are two questions for Admiral Harris. Number one, China's growing military spending, the implications of that. Plus, how do you keep the peace in light of the fact that China is building this great wall of the sand in the South China Sea? So let me begin with a question which I think is an excellent question. And that is how do I view the rise of the Chinese Navy? Quite frankly, I welcome the rise of a strong, prosperous China and by implication the Chinese Navy that adheres to the rule of law and international norms. I think we should give credit where credit is due. China has done some great work in the international arena. Just a quick rundown of some of those events. China was involved in the removal of chemical weapons from Syria. They're involved in the 19th iteration of their counter-piracy task force off the Horn of Africa. They were involved in helping nations remove some of their citizens from the unrest in Yemen most recently. They had the largest contention of ships other than Australia working off the west coast of Australia for the MH370 search effort last year. They had their hospital ship participated in the Philippine Hurricane Typhoon Haiyan disaster. So that's to be commended. They sent four of their best ships to RIMPAC, the RIM of the Pacific Exercise that we hosted off the Hawaiian coast. In fact, they had the largest contingent of ships other than the United States Navy ships at that exercise. So these are positive things and they should be commended for it and take the opportunity to do that. However, I think then, the second question, China is responsible for the rise of tensions and provocations in the South China Sea. I think you should look at the 2002 ASEAN-China Declaration of Conduct. If you take a look at the 2002 Declaration which China agreed to do, then you look at what China is doing now in the South China Sea with their sand grab. I think that you'll find that that is stark in the changes between what they agreed to do and what they were doing. So I'm concerned about that and I view that as a source of tensions in the South China Sea. And those tensions could disrupt stability and by extrapolation prosperity. And those disruptions could trigger treaty obligations that the United States has with countries in the region as well as other countries throughout the area. Thank you very much. Yes, we have one year, two here and three here. Yes, thank you. Please let us know who you are. Hi, my name is Eti from Kachamara University and Atmasaya University. I have three questions to anyone in the panel. Number one, what is the leading country that has done research in renewable energy? If anyone knows about this. Number two, under any collaboration between government, scientists and corporations. And number three, under any collaboration between countries in the region or countries around the world or as a secretive because it will generate revenue. Thank you. Okay, I hope you all got that. I think there are three questions. It's all concerning renewables. What is being done? Is there a crossover platform where governments and corporate sector, public private sector effort in renewables? I think that's the end. And we'll take another one from you. Yes. Hello. My name is Banka. I am from Surabaya making a steel company, working for a steel company. My question is again on renewables. It is how cost effective is renewables with respect to oil at say $60, $75 and $100. Great question. Yeah. If oil keeps on getting depressed, is it worth all the effort digging underneath the ground and catching whatever wind movements that we see? Who would like to take this question? Melody, yes. I'll make a few comments. You know, I think to meet the growing demand for energy, all forms of energy are going to be required. It's going to be oil, gas, nuclear, coal renewables, all forms will be needed to meet the growing demand. And renewables will compete at some price point, but it also is so important that renewables compete at scale and without subsidy. And a lot of companies are focused on understanding how to, you know, create renewable energy opportunities that can compete at scale and also without subsidy. And I think that that's important. But the view is that all forms of energy are going to be required to meet the growing demands. Minister. The latest research that I read about last week, in 2013, the world built new capacity of the electricity to 41 gigawatt coming from fossil. And to 43 gigawatt coming from renewable, which is they said this is the first time the renewable passed the fossil. And now they're spending about 50 billion to do research on the solar cell, which directed toward whether we can create a smaller, cheaper solar cell. And it is predicted by 2050, the solar cell that not only share of 1% of the electricity will be single largest provider for the electricity. That is the prediction. Of course, this is very what you call efficiently futuristic view, but I think for me in Indonesia, this is one of the choice, one of the option. Because the fact is the fossil will be gone, it's a matter of time. But renewable resources will be always renewable. And what do we do as a government? I will touch the willingness of the stakeholders by asking the huge budget next year, doubling the budget and then also increase the portion of renewable as the initiative. And hopefully with the partnership between corporation and government, we will create market, we will create industry to support. And this is what you call the new direction that we have to take. Well, so perhaps, yes, I think we have a couple of hands going on. Yes, sir. There's a mic coming your way. My name is Anil Bhatia. I'm from ABB. We are into renewables and power sector, power and industry. The question is to the minister, Mr. Dilman, that as you said just now that you will push for renewables through policy and so on. Many of the islands in Indonesia are 17,000 islands. Renewables is already on price parity with the cost of generating power through diesel power plants. How would you push this further through policy? So again, far-flung islands, Indonesia's archipelago, 7000 islands, how do you patch together renewable energy to different households? That is even more relevant in my opinion because the renewables supposed to be based on the local resources, right? There is a sunshine everywhere in Indonesia and there is also water. How do you prepare for the rainy days? Of course there is a challenge but as efficient I think we have to prepare that and talking about prices for example. If the economy of scale already come to the stage then I think there will be more competitive price compared to fuel. It is a matter of size. Of course the conventional thinking always challenge whether you will be able to compete with fuel energy. Yeah and I think really I think we've got a couple more questions but I'll throw one and then get one and then we'll wrap this up to Melody for all the majors. Something like carbon capture. This is being talked about. You've got lots of developments happening in pre-salt hydrocarbon. What else? Brazil in the far flung areas but then again if oil prices remain depressed is that going to put those projects on hold? And also carbon capture, this kind of technology, can it really be implemented on a bigger industrial scale? So our approach on greenhouse gas emissions and we're investing, part of our Gorgon LNG project in Australia has a large CO2 sequestration capture program and we're investing in that. It's a very integral part of the development. It's well underway and certainly going to be able to capture and store CO2 for decades to come. But our focus on greenhouse gas emissions is around being a responsible investor of natural gas and developing and producing natural gas has a big contribution to greenhouse gas emissions because if cleaner burning natural gas is being produced for electricity there are good emissions response to that. Thank you. We'll just take one final question and then I forget who raises hand. I think the lady over there. Thank you. Hargir from the Straits Times. My question is to Admiral Harris. You've talked about China raising tensions in the South China Sea. My question is at this point do you see a heightened risk of some kind of incident or confrontation in the South China Sea? Or in the new future? Are you preparing? What kind of scenarios are you preparing for? Thank you. I think that my job is to prepare for all scenarios from a position of strength. And my concern in the South China Sea is not major naval force on force or major military force on force conflict. My concern is that there are young men and women that captain these small ships, these Coast Guard ships and fishing vessels and whatever, that they are trying to do the right thing on the high seas and their activities could trigger then the use of larger ships and actual naval forces of governments that are involved in some of the disputes. And that is what concerns me. Again, I don't think that there's a likelihood of major force on force conflict in the South China Sea today. I have to be ready for that from the position of strength, but I am concerned about those small actions. There's tactical actions that have strategic consequences throughout the region. Thank you very much. I'd like to thank everyone for taking part in this conversation with us. We're very grateful and honored to have you all with us here in Jakarta. Really appreciate it. I believe that we are going to wrap up now. I'd like to thank our distinguished panelists, Admiral Harris, much appreciated, and Melody Boone Meyer of Chevron, Minister Sudirman Said and also Minister Aliyev and also Dato, Tamsri Dato, Sheryl, Shamsudin, much appreciated. I'd like to give a warm, big hand of applause to everybody. Thank you very much. And you've been watching Channel News Asia's forum here at the World Economic Forum on East Asia. Thank you very much again.