 I'm Brian Kappa. I'm a 10-time South African Motorcycling Champion. My family and I have chosen to live in four ways. There's some really great suburbs in our neighbourhood. There's a lot of families living in the surrounding areas, in places like Lone Hill and Cedar Lakes. What draws people to Cedar Lakes is that it's so close to the Broadacre Shopping Centre, Cedar Square and Four Ways Life Hospital. Lone Hill is a major draw card for many families. It's got some great smaller commercial centres and some fantastic schools like Crawford College. From an entertainment point of view, Monte Cassino really comes alive at night. There's so much on the go and there's an incredible energy in the area. Our family just loves the fast-paced lifestyle that Four Ways brings. But honestly, the thing that attracted us most to this area was the active lifestyle that it offers. As a family, we've chosen to live in four ways because of the lifestyle and convenience and this is our neighbourhood. Good evening and welcome to episode 27 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Dung or Kumar Lewey, on day 54 of the national lockdown. I know many of us in Haudenai are eagerly waiting for an announcement that we might go down to level 3. So we'll be waiting with a bit of breath to see whether or not we'll be able to go there. But of course, this evening we'll be speaking about tips for buying property if you're married in community of property. And this also goes to different types of marriages that you might find yourself in. If you remember last week Friday, one of our viewers at home actually asked a question about the nature of their marriage and how they can best navigate if they wanted to buy a property with a partner whose credit score was not that great. And we did promise that we'll bring in an expert to help us better understand what the implications of the different types of marriages we find ourselves in are when we're buying property or on different assets. And tonight to help us unpack this and better understand this, I'm joined by Benashri Maana who is a partner at River Wenzel. Good evening, Barasini. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you and thank you for having me. So I think, I mean, let's probably look at the, I'll say like the three major ways to get married. And perhaps the fourth one might even be the customary marriage. So of course that the first one is a lot of people like using that term you're married in community of property or you're married out of community of property. And then some people will say you're married with or without accrual. What are the differences in those different ways of getting married? Okay, so basically you get married in community of property or out of community of property. If you get married out of community of property, you can either get married with the accrual or without the accrual. If you don't specifically exclude the accrual, the accrual is included in there. And in community of property is basically what is yours is mine, and what is mine is yours. So you've got in community, out of community, out of community with and without accrual. So that's basically how. And then let's perhaps look at what the implications of those different ways of I'll say marriage are when it comes to things like property ownership, because I think a lot of people might not understand some of the implications perhaps you were young or even if you're not young, I think so many of us might be, you know, getting married and not perhaps understand some of the legal implications of the way that we choose to get married. So when we look at these, you know, different ways in community of property or out of community and accrual and non accrual, what are some of the implications when it comes to property ownership. Okay, so basically in community of property means that you are jointly and separately liable for each other's debts together with the profits of the marriage prior to the marriage during the course of the marriage as well. So if your spouse gets sequestrated, you get sequestrated with your spouse as well. So your ability to contract is hampered by your spouse's activities. So that's the difficulty. Also, if you are married in community or property, when your spouse goes and signs and offered to purchase a property, you need to go and call sign with your spouse. And two, both of you need to do it jointly. One can't or bond the property, for example, you've got to do it together as well. Out of community of property is completely different. It allows you to keep your independence so you can go out and purchase a property on your own on your own credit rating your own credit score. So if your spouse's knowledge or consent because it's not required, you go you purchase, you make an offer to purchase, you get your bond approval, you can do everything autonomously. We, the with and without accrual comes into effect is on dissolution of marriage. Now what happens to this property that you bought depending on whether you have the cruel system in place or not. You cannot have the cruel system in place. That means everything you gain during the course of the marriage remains yours and his remains his. So basically you get married you walk away with what you have he walks away with what he has what he's fired during the course of the marriage, and you just part ways clean. That's without accrual you don't share in anything. Not each other's profits losses deaths. Nothing you just basically go away with accrual means that on dissolution of marriage and dissolution of marriage and not just divorce it's also on debt. The person with the higher accrual accrued value during the course of the marriage will have to share with the other spouse. Depending on what the contract says the assets the game during the course of the marriage. That's basically what it means. And I think before we even look at you know anti natural contracts what they are, and perhaps some different ways that you can navigate them. I mean we're talking off ages a little bit that so many of us might find ourselves. Perhaps wanting to get married, and in addition to, you know, going and signing and having a civil union, we're very likely going to be following certain customary ceremonies. We actually go and sign and what so many of us probably don't realize as you're saying to your face that, by the time you're having those customary celebrations. The law essentially regards you as married and you're essentially married in community of property. Can you just break that down for a few years at home, because I think so many of us probably do not know that or even understand that at which point are you regarded as, you know, married in terms of customary law. Yeah, that's absolutely. It's important and very vital. So, when you are negotiating your labola customary. Customs. You're actually taking to consideration at which time in that negotiations is your cost, your custom regards you as married. So, if it is at the celebration time is it at the negotiation time, because different customs recognize the marriage at different parts of the tradition. So basically before you conclude and the axis before the it's celebrated your marriage is celebrated, you need to have already entered into an international contract, because if you don't do that, you are now considered married, and the type of marriage is married in community So the time the time to consider it is before you conclude and celebrate your traditional marriage, you need to go and see a military public and decide on your international contract, talk about what type of marriage you, you know, you want to enter into, etc. And sign your contract prior to concluding this marriage, your customary marriage and having the marriage celebrated is very important. That is the point at which the Lord decides whether you are married or not, not at the time you go and sign your civil certificate, you know, at home affairs or wherever you're going to celebrate that civil marriage. It's before it's just before you celebrate your customary union. And I think then let's probably get into, you know, the issue of an anti natural contract we've already made mention of it during this conversation for viewers at home who might not be aware what is this anti natural contract with I think, so probably you know watch different TV series on TV, we talk about prenup and we kind of you know throw that word around quite a lot. But of course in South Africa we operate slightly differently. So perhaps if we could help us understand what that contract is, and some of the clauses perhaps that go into an anti natural contract. Yes. So basically it arranges your matrimonial property system of spouses. One of the clauses that go into it is that you are in on the verge of celebrating a marriage. So you go to an energy public, you sign this document which you call your anti natural contract, which is equivalent of a tree not sure contract that you would hear on an SOP for example. You need to celebrate this marriage. If you don't celebrate your marriage and just say you break up in the interim. This anti natural contract is not valid, although it's registered in the dean's office. It's just lycee and it just accumulates dust. It's of no cause and effect. The other thing that goes into an anti natural contract is why why it's important. It is to exclude the community of property. And the community of profit and loss, as well as to either you include or exclude the approval system. And that's very important. If you don't say you excluding the community of profit and loss that means you're it's going to be included. So you're also going to stay in the last part of your spouses. So it's quite important to put in your anti natural contract that you are excluding that. And then when you talk about whether you include or exclude your cruel system. That's the differentiation or the main factor in how you decide you're going to progress with your marriage at that point in time you're going to decide whether you are going to go completely what's yours is yours and what's mine is mine. Or we're going to share in the fruits of this marriage and people don't realize that you can share in the fruits of this marriage in percentages. You can share in the fruits of this marriage 3070 for example, you can share in certain aspects of the fruits of this marriage. For example, it is for your work income derived from work or income derived from a company dividends. So there's, there's so much you can do with this anti natural contract there's so many things so many different ways of wording it to suit your particular lifestyle what you want to include what you want to exclude. Sometimes something is extremely sentimental to you. And therefore when you start off your anti natural contract, you don't want to start it off on a no value. You have this car, which is extremely important to you, you bought it with your first paycheck. And therefore, over the years it, it grew in value or not, but you want it to be yours and you don't want to share it or at a later stage you have to now sell it to match the cruel system, you can exclude it. You can exclude your gun collection. You can exclude property previously bought you can exclude just about anything you want to exclude from this marriage. So you can include things you want from this marriage. So it's, you know, it's a, it's a very flexible document that people don't understand. That you can do so many things with this document to actually decide and navigate through your, your, your matrimonial property system, prior to entry into that marriage and you know because normally we are all very, you know, we're bright eyed and wish it held and we are so excited about getting married that we don't want to think about what's going to happen in the future or there's a possibility that we're going to get divorced. But the anti-national contract is not just about divorce, it's also about debt. It's something I want to think about because you, you, you will decide on the accrual if you're going to get married with an accrual on both debt and divorce and then pass can bequeath the rest of the debt person's assets. So you need to split your accrual first and then because if you married with the accrual, you can't not just decide that everything that I own. Now I'm going to suddenly going to give to the SPCA because we know that we had a horrible relationship, and I can just give it all the way you can't. So you've got to get an accountant in the work at the, excuse me, the accrual, and then whatever is left over can be given to the SPCA. I'd actually like us to say a little bit with the, you know, with this anti-natural contract. Perhaps, you know, how about views at home. I mean, you've already given us such a great overview of, and this is something I also didn't realize that there are so many things you can decide to put in so many things you can decide not to put in that it doesn't necessarily mean that everything is 50-50 because I think that's also the misconception that a many of us probably think is the automatic assumption when you enter into or when you sign that anti-natural contract. So even understanding that it isn't necessarily the case. Perhaps what are some tips you can give to our viewers at home when who are looking into, you know, having an anti-natural contract drawn up. One of the things that they should be thinking about, I mean, obviously both parties will hopefully have different attorneys who advise them and sit down with them and say, okay, so this is what you currently have in terms of the assets and your liabilities. This is where you're currently going. This is your career, but certainly for people perhaps who might not necessarily have that kind of support, but know that they'll be getting married hopefully by the time we're able to actually celebrate our weddings and have an actual wedding. So what are some of the legal considerations that they ought to be thinking about before signing an anti-natural contract? In my case, I know what's really important is that recently there was a bit of change in our law. Previously, we were able to sign special power attorneys so you basically authorize a secretary in a law office to go and execute this anti-natural contract in front of a notary public and then the notary public will execute this document and lodge it at the deeds office. Now you have to do it in person. And one of the main reasons behind that is that I as a notary public have to look at you and note whether you are under duress when you are signing this anti-natural contract. Because sometimes when you're getting there, you're driving there together and now you are scared or you've been told not to ask for more than you're bringing into the marriage, etc. So some of the tips that I would give to people that are intending on getting married and with an anti-natural contract would be one, you have to look at your age. If you're a younger person and you have less, then, you know, and you don't have any kids, etc., it's good, you know, and you have no starting value. So getting married with a cruel won't really affect your assets as much because you have, you know, very little at the point in time. But for older couples where you either have proceeds from a previous divorce, you have kids, etc., so you need to then protect their inheritances, you need to protect their schooling. It's far more wise then to get married without the accrual because then you can protect the assets that you currently have so that you can be able to take care of your kids from that your previous marriages or from your previous relationships. The other things that you need to take into consideration when you are drawing up an anti-natural contract, your pension. Your pension, you may have worked for the last 12 years and you have somebody who is a serial entrepreneur that doesn't succeed. That's something that you need to take into consideration that, you know, what this is your pension and you want to keep it separate or you want to exclude it from your anti-natural contract. Also, go back and think about what you've decided and the draft that the Notre public seems to you to have a look at it, make your notes on it, ask questions. It's not final until you sign on the dotted line, so go back, think about what you said, ask as many questions as you would like and there's no such thing as a silly question because you're paying a professional to give you a professional answer. So if you felt that you are under duress or you're stressed or you did not want to agree to X, Y and Z, go back to your office or go back home, call your Notre public in the watch. Is this possible? Yes, no, I'm not comfortable with X, Y and Z. I'm joined by Vinashri Mana, who's the partner at Weber Wenzel and we're talking about tips for buying property when you're married in community of property. If you've got any questions or comments, do send them through. We're going to take a quick break and just after this we'll be taking some of your questions and comments. Welcome back to Episode 27 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Dunwoa Komal and we're talking about tips for buying a property if you're married in community of property and also unpacking the different ways that you could potentially get married and what the implications of those ways are on your property portfolio and to help us better understand this I'm joined by Vinashri Mana, who is the partner at Weber Wenzel. Thank you very much, Varashri. Now, before we wait to the break, we actually got in more questions and comments from viewers at home. Of course, if you're at home and you want to find out more about this particular topic, perhaps you're finding yourself, maybe you're about to get married, or you're already married and you're already seeing that there might be different legal implications to the way that you chose to get married, that you want a bit of clarity on do you send in those questions and comments. The first one here comes from Elizabeth Liddell who asked, so would you advise couples to get married out of community of property without accrual to avoid complications in the future? Mama, like I said earlier, it actually just depends on your personal circumstances and how you want to govern your relationship. So, so that won't be my advice, it just depends on where you find yourself at that particular point in time, because what happens if you decide that you become you want to become a stay at home mom, you have kids, you don't accrue any assets, but I mean you're a home executive, you're spending your time raising children, or on the side you're helping your husband do the books of his business, etc. But are you getting a salary for it? At the end of the day, you're going to walk away with what? Zero, because you decided, your mutually decided that you're going to be a stay at home mom or he's going to be a stay at home dad. So it really depends on your marriage and your relationship, to determine whether you get married without accrual, because it can have a negative effect as well. I've got another question in here from Katya Gauahab who asks, is it possible to amend the ANC once it's signed and registered? No, it's not. No, it's not. You can't amend an international contract. No. And then is there a way to perhaps draft a different one? So if you kind of amend that one, are you able to nullify that first one perhaps draft a separate one altogether? Because I'm sure a lot of people might find themselves five years into a marriage and thought perhaps I made the wrong calculations. I don't want to change, you know, are they actually able to do that or you're pretty much stuck with what you decided on at the beginning of that marriage? So the question is, what you're stuck with, we decided to get married. So while it's two ways, yes, if you decide to get married with an international contract and what you decided at the outset, you can continue with that. You can amend it, but then it becomes an amendment into parties just between you and your spouse, not an amendment for creditors. So between you and him, you can decide you want to amend X, Y and Z. That's fine. But when it comes to creditors and people on the outside, it does not affect them at all. What you registered at the deeds office is what is there. But if what you decided at the outset is to get married in community of property, and then as you got older, because and then get a little bit more learned, or somebody advised you otherwise, you started a business and you decided, you know, right now it's time for us to change our matrimonial property system because every time I contract and need your signature to a new contract, you need my signature, etc. And we can't buy property separately, etc. Yes, you can then go and you can do a complete new application at the High Court. It's called a personal application. So you get a contract registered approved by the High Court. The application is moved by an advocate for you. And then you take that personal contract and register it at the deeds office and then it will govern your relationship as if you got married. Out of community property and then from there going forward, it will be an art of community property marriage. So you can change from in community to out of community. Yes. That was actually a question that came in there from Stephanie Whitboy who had asked once someone gets married, and without an NC, can this be implemented later. And I suppose then it's that post-natural application that you made reference to. We've got another one. Got to go following up on an earlier question who says thank you. How expensive is it. She says that she heard that, you know, sometimes these contracts can be quite pricey. So how expensive is it to get into an active anti-natural contract and perhaps even, you know, the post-natural application. Okay, so the anti-natural contract itself, not very expensive actually not at all expensive. It's relatively cheap. It just depends on the complexity of it. So if you're going to use go back three or four times and you've got lots of amendments and you change your mind. Lots of time then then obviously that's going to that's going to become a little bit more expensive because now it's an hourly tariff somebody's charging you per hour to do this. But if you pretty much understand what you need etc. It's it's it's quite inexpensive actually. Anti-natural contracts unfortunately is a little bit more expensive because if your attorney does not have rightful appearance in the High Court, you would need to get the services of an advocate. So you're paying an attorney, you're going to be paying an advocate, you're going to have to be paying for advertisements in the government budget, notice to your creditors etc. So that becomes far more expensive than an anti-natural contract done pre your marriage. But normally people that enter into post-natural contracts have more to gain to do that rather than not having it done. Yeah. Sorry, sorry. There's one other thing that couples that already have anti-natural contracts. You need to ensure that your anti-natural contract was executed before your marriage certificate was registered. So what we find is well summer when we're doing people are buying property. They come to us and they say well we married out of community of property. Yes, my anti-natural contract and we say okay fine. Can I also get your marriage certificate because I need to make sure that your notary public had executed this document before you entered into your marriage. And what we find and I at least four to five times a year that the notary public actually never executed it before you got married. So remember even on the day you're getting married you can still go and execute your anti-natural contract but you can't get married on the Saturday and then go execute an anti-natural contract the following Monday then it is in community of property. And I think you know when you talk about some of the costs especially with that post-natural contract I've heard stories of couples who sometimes think it's so much admin it makes better sense for them to legally get divorced. So dissolve the marriage and then they'll remarry and this time sort of marry the right way around which probably sounds slightly dramatic. I think for most of us who kind of live relatively ordinary lives but I mean I've heard those instances where they say it's actually easier to do it like that. And they've sat down with their lawyers and even the lawyers have said you know what it actually does work out if you do it like that as opposed to try to retrospectively fix some of the things that you probably didn't do right the first time around. Zama, apart from the drama and stress of divorce, we need to also understand that section 27 of the Insolvency Act applies in this instance or registering of any anti-natural contract. So if your intention was to try and avoid creditors etc. The court can set aside your generosity in your anti-natural contract as avoidable disposition in the first two years of your marriage. So if in the first two years you registered this anti-natural contract and in this contract you decided to give your wife property or donate to your children or give to your wife the property. And then you've got closest knocking at your door and you now don't have this property anymore. They can look into the donation that you made to your wife and then at that point in time, if it's within the two years of registering the anti-natural contract, they can set aside that. So you run the risk of that. So if you decide, okay, I split, we get divorced, we take 50-50, I get this house and you get that house and now we get registered anti-natural contract we excluded from our anti-natural contracts. The creditors can still attach it in the first two years. So it's not really a full pathway. Yeah, never actually, do you have any tips then for people who are currently married in community of property and perhaps want to look at different ways that they can protect their assets? Yes, so it depends on what their assets are used for. So for example, are you buying this property to hold as a long-term investment or are you buying this property as a trading commodity? And you're married in community of property. Well, even if you're married out of community but more so in community of property. You can buy the property in a trust or you can buy the property in a company or you can buy, if there's already registered CC, you can obviously buy it in the CC. But what you need to be very mindful of is that what is your purpose of using these vehicles in order to buy the property? What's the purpose of the property? Because the reason why I say that is because when you trade with the property, you will eventually have to pay capital gains tax and certain vehicles yield a higher capital gains payment than others. So like a trust, for example, if you are holding it for long term, it's okay, but on a short term you pay higher capital gains on a trust and you wait if you had bought it in a company or a CC. So you need to be mindful of the tax implications of the vehicle you're choosing to use. So there is that vehicle, you've got the trust or company or a CC as a vehicle in which to buy property in and to obviously keep it separate from your estate. However, the purpose of why you buying the property needs to be taken into consideration because now you don't want to be settled with a higher capital gains tax. And I think lastly, you know, any tips for unmarried people who are, you know, looking into at some point getting married. Some of the things that they should be considering some of the legal things that they should probably be thinking about when they explore the different ways that they could potentially get into a marriage. Well, as we discussed earlier, they must definitely think about an international contract, and they should consider using separate legal counsel in terms of the international contract. I think for not see the same legal counsel so decide on some unbiased person that you can, you know, the legal practice council has a list of notary publics that they can, you know, access in the area to somebody that's unbiased and you can go and see the legal counsel separately when you are getting married so that you understand the implications of your marriage. Also, when you're getting married, think long term, think 25 years from now. Don't not your current situation and how you feel and don't be governed by your feelings. You need to be rational about it. I know all of us don't want to think about it because we have butterflies in our tummy and we're so excited. You know, funny enough, my own anti-national contract when I had to sign the line and now thinking about the money part of it and the property part of it upset me. Although I'm legally trained, it's still upset me like I don't want to think about this when I'm getting married. But you have because you're not, not only is it are you thinking about yourself, you're thinking about your future children, what the implications for you and your kids in 20 years time and what is going to happen. And you need to to think about this with a silver mind and not with the emotions that you're feeling at the time, which is and do it in advance. Do it a month in advance, do it two months in advance before you get married. Don't leave it for the last minute, because when you do, you are caught up in the emotions of what's happening. And then you will agree and you tend to normally agree involuntary to any request because you just want to get this over and done with do it well in advance. You know, you can do it about three months in advance from your date of marriage. So, you know, think about it, do it to the silver mind, and but think about it and discuss it. It's very, very important that you discuss it you don't want to have to suffer the consequences of your decisions at a later stage. You know, I've actually got and we're speaking about this off air around just how difficult it's also probably possible. It is to initiate this kind of conversation with your with your partner I mean here you are you've been dating let's say a couple of months or a couple of years, and now marriage is you know that the next step in your relationship. And one of the things will probably be what are some of the perhaps questions we ought to be asking each other first, and before we even get lawyers involved in course lawyers are going to get involved for us to be able to sit down but before that, because by the time I go to my lawyer want to say, Okay, so I've spoken to my partner. Here's his side of the story. Here's my side of the story. What are some of the questions that we should probably be thinking about as partners who are potentially about to be getting married in the next Okay, so when you go to the lawyers you're going to have to have certain things decided upon prior. So, there's a few things that you're going to have to decide on what what do you want to keep as your own like I said she's something that's either sentimental or whatever reason you want to keep your own. So come up with a list of things that you want to exclude into remember if you if you're getting married, and to natural with a cruel if you don't exclude it specifically excluded it becomes part of your cruel. So for example, if you had a house that you purchased, and you didn't exclude your house now and you then later on sell this house you make a profit, it becomes part of your cruel because you never excluded it. However, if you excluded that house, you then take that while you're married you take that money and then you go and invest it into another property that money and that property will always be excluded. So those are the things you need to take into consideration come up with a list of things that you want to exclude. Come up with all your assets think about everything you have from shares to to RAs to Providence funds to jewelry to points, art, etc. And decide on a list of things that you think you want to share with your partner and those things that you want to exclude because remember your your notary public it's going to ask you. What is your commencement value because you can then would also need to have a commencement value. You can either say you want to exclude a master 323 white 1984 etc. Or you can say I want to exclude the value of the Christ 30,000 rents. So you can decide whether you want to exclude the thing itself you want to exclude the value of the thing itself. You want to add the value of the thing as your commencement value so then when you're working out your rules or take out that which you had added in as your commencement value. So think about things that appreciate in value, you may want to exclude the thing itself. Things that appreciate, maybe not so much come up with the amount you want to start off with your assets. But remember also you can't say I want to exclude 300 million rent. When you can't back it up with proof as well so you can't say you know, so you must be able to validate what you are excluding and you must own it you can't be excluding your mother's amc parts. Thanks. I think we mustn't go for our mother's amc parts. I've heard way too many horror stories and people fighting over those you've got a question here coming in from feature Anthony who asks can the partner claim from you from your investment property that is under a company when you're married in community of property. Say that again so can your partner claim from your investment property that is under a company so you've bought it under a Pty. You are married in community of property with your partner. When did you buy it in community of property. Sorry so when did you get by it before you get married or. This was bought, you know after they got married so it's in a Pty but it's after they actually got married in community of property. And the company said after they got married. Okay. And you are obviously the 100% shareholder. It's also beat that assumption. Then they can claim 50% of your shares in the company. Okay, so if you're the 100% shareholder they can claim it. If you have 50% then they'll claim a percentage of that as well. Yes, yes. But remember that the difference is when you're in a Pty or your the company is separate from you. So for creditors it has a different implication than it does for shareholders in America. And actually thank you so much for that I think this is where we're going to leave it this is one of those topics that will probably come back to because I think many of us will find ourselves you know having some other legal question when it comes to the way that we're married or looking at getting married. And of course our assets because so many of us don't think about it I mean you were saying earlier on that even as we approach this conversation with our partners to do it well enough in time so that we don't let our emotions get the better of us and also just don't let the admin of its you know sort of make us lazy to put in the work and make sure that we end up having a contract that both parties are going to be happy with. Thank you so much for joining us this evening. Yeah, thank you for having me. And that was the nursery mana who is a partner at Weber Wenzel. And of course we're looking at some tips for buying property, depending on the type of marriage that you in and with a particular focus of being married in community of property that has been so 27 of the private property podcast, we're back tomorrow and tomorrow of course being Wednesday, we'll be speaking to Apsai you absolutely do not want to miss this one. And I hope you're going to be staying at home and abiding by the lockdown rules. Many of us are waiting with a brief to see when we're going to go down to level three. So folks do stay at home stay safe until tomorrow evening. I am Niclinda Lodge and I'm part of the SA Women's Hockey Team, Co-Director of Taksa Hockey, also the assistant coach for the first time in years. I moved to Ferry Green about five years ago. Ferry Green is a really safe place and the people are really kind, really close by like this. In the morning I will wake up, make myself a cup of coffee, go for a jog in the Ferry Green nature reserve or even just in the neighborhood. It's safe, quiet and the environment is really nice. I love Ferry Green because I'm near the city but I'm not in the city. My country club, to clear my mind, I'm on my own to relax and just to enjoy a round of golf. In Pretoria East we really have nice places to visit like Midland Mall and Brooklyn Mall but it's really close by. There are also a lot of top schools in the area like Pretoria Boys High and New York School Menopause. One of the most beautiful places to see the whole of Pretoria is the fourth cup of coffee viewpoint and that's my neighborhood.