 Well, welcome everybody today to the Community College Consortium for Open Educational Resources Spring 2021 webinar on K-12 and Community College collaborations with OER. My name is Matthew Bloom. I'm English faculty at Scottsdale Community College and I'll be moderating the webinar today. So thank you very much for joining us. We have a really wonderful panel of before we get started, we have a couple of things to say. First of all, we will have some time towards the end of the webinar today to address questions that happen to come up in the chat. So please be sure to feel free to use the chat if you have questions and we might even address some of those as we go as well. And other than that, I also wanted to just say generally what we are going to do which is first of all talk very briefly about Community College Consortium for Open Educational Resources for those of you who may not know too much about the organization. We have some very brief introductions and we have a panel discussion focused on a small number of questions that we think will yield I think pretty interesting discussion about what we should be, you know, keeping in mind when we think about the work that Community colleges, higher education in general can be doing with K-12 to support open education and students learning. And at the end of course, we'll talk about some of the other upcoming events and webinars happening and give you some opportunities to contact us. We have a really great diverse panel here today, a number of people from Louisiana who have worked on projects and I will give them the opportunity to introduce themselves in a minute and also a couple of folks who have been working on, have had some opportunity to collaborate and work together in Southern California. And as I said, I will be moderating but I'm going to do my best to let these brilliant folks talk because they really I think have a lot of interesting things to share. So first of all, as promised, the Community College Consortium for Open Educational Resources is kind of a regional node of OE Global, which is the which is a global organization dedicated to supporting open education initiatives and advocacy. And what CCC OER primarily does is expand, as it says here, awareness and access to OER by supporting various members' institutions as well as the community at large. We offer a lot of professional development, we support faculty, we support the institutions in general, and we also try to support OER leadership across primarily North America. And of course, all of that is, you know, based on the idea of fostering student equity and success. And as I said, it's primarily North America, mostly the United States, we have 91 member institutions across 35 states. You can see there's at least one above the border there. But so we encourage you to check it out and if you are interested in more information about CCC OER then you'll have the there will be some contact information at the end that you feel free to use. So what I want to do right now is I want to go ahead and pass this over. I don't want to waste any time because getting into the discussion is the most important thing. I want to pass this on to some folks over in Belize, the Anna, Emilio Brister, Emily Frank, and Terry Galloway, so that they can talk about their experiences in collaboration and each of these themselves. I will stop the share. So you can take it away. Thank you, Matthew. Pleasure to be here today. Thank you for the invitation to join. I'm Andrea Galloway. I'm the associate commissioner and executive director for Lewis joined by Emily and Amelia as Matthew noted. And we're going to speak with you today about Lewis's open textbooks pilot grant it's titled interactive OER for dual enrollment. We'll really cover the purpose of the grant describe some of the activities and expected outcomes and Amelia in particular is going to shine some light on the challenges and obstacles and connecting the dual enrollment stakeholders in K-12 and higher ed. We'll wrap up by describing some early steps we're taking to mitigate those challenges. So we'll move forward. So I just want to situate the work here with some information about Lewis. We are a statewide academic library consortium in Louisiana. We're interested to know that within our membership, we have a community college system, the Louisiana community and technical college system. There are 11 community colleges within that system that are members of Lewis. And we also have a couple of two year institutions that are outside of the community and technical college system. So this is just a description of what Lewis provides to the state historically. And then we'll move forward and just note that our affordable learning program, which we launched in 2015 was designed to reduce the cost of textbooks to students in a couple of ways. One is reducing or eliminating materials with procuring licensed resources. That's our affordable component. And then we also have a mature program in supporting open educational resources through professional development programs as well as providing incentives to faculty for redesign projects. So since we started our work, we've been able to track through our institutions over $26 million in savings. Let's move forward. So building on the success of those programs, we submitted a grant application to the United States Department of Education for the open textbooks program, which I imagine many of you are familiar with. And to distinguish our application we pursued the dual enrollment niche, emphasizing the overlap between high enrollment general education courses, and how they are typically offered as dual enrollment. We also had a dual enrollment state created, legislatively created dual enrollment task force that was simultaneously examining dual enrollment policy. And they actually made a recommendation that OER be integrated into dual enrollment in the maximum extent possible. So the grant was really an opportunity for us to think about alignment of program goals between these two groups. So a couple of notes here. Why dual enrollment? You may know a bit about this already about how post-secondary success is linked to students being able to pursue college and high school credit simultaneously. And students are 10% more likely to complete a bachelor's degree than a comparison group if they experience dual enrollment, and that jumps up to 12% for students who are first generation students. So it is a successful avenue to ensure post-secondary success. However, as we found in our state there is a participation gap, an equity gap in dual enrollment participation, meaning that minority students end up having less access to a program that's been proven to bolster student persistence in college. So as we looked at this grant, we narrowed our focus to 25 courses with very high DF or withdrawal, or DF or withdrawal, so DFW rates for students, for minority students, and also those that had a high capacity to be utilized in a dual enrollment setting. Let's go forward. So the strategy was effective and we won on behalf of our Board of Regents, which Lewis is a part of this $2 million grant to bring OER into those 25 courses. We'll be working over the next three years with librarians and faculty on these course design teams to build 25 redeployable OER based courses for both general education and dual enrollment purposes. Emily is going to do a deep dive into what that experience will look like, highlighting the faculty and librarian roles, and sharing some information about how we plan to make it interactive. Jump forward here. In the meantime, here's our thoughts about course outcomes. Across these 25 courses we have a general DFW rate of 26%, 34% for minority, and then as you can see it's a successful program for dual enrollment with those DFW rates dropping to 10% when we can get students enrolled in those programs. Okay, so Emily, tell us what this entails. Yes, thank you, Terry. So, as I've been introduced, I'm Emily Frank. I also work with Lewis as the affordable learning administrator, and prior to being with Lewis I was an academic librarian. So my experience is very much higher ed based. But to speak to this grant specifically as Terry introduced, we will be working collaboratively with teams across the state on these 25 courses. I'm going to pinpoint a couple of things that are part of our focus with this work. The first is that we are working on a very structured approach, working with our librarians who are on these teams to have them be leaders with their cohort in building capacity and confidence around OER. We will be engaging in their subject area, copyright, Creative Commons licensing, the types of skills and knowledge that we think of as being foundational to the work of adapting, adopting, creating OER. We will be engaging multiple stakeholders. This project will be working with faculty from all of our systems in the state, from across the state, and with academic librarians, bringing them together in collaboration. It's using a strategy that we've used in the past in Louisiana to successfully bring together a community of practice at a distance around OER. And core to this idea of multiple stakeholders is the idea that no one is going it alone in this work. We will be bringing folks with various background skill sets, experience to the table, and collectively they'll be working on these projects. Another key piece is having different layers of support. What we've designed will scaffold training and have training run continuously throughout this work to help ensure that we are able to advance some key aims of this project and also bring success to the project. So some of those key aims include bringing accessibility and DEI diversity, equity, and inclusion principles in throughout. Part of these layers of support include bringing rebus, the education nonprofit based in Canada. To this work, they'll be leading some workshops and bringing their OER publishing process experience to our participants through those workshops and sharing best practices and techniques. We want to make sure that our outcomes are accessible, that the content and materials can be accessed, used, and understood by any learner. And so for that we're striving to have an inclusive process that makes use of inclusive accessible tools and technology. And so we'll be leveraging press books and H5P specifically the elements that can be made accessible for learners. And finally, you know, we still find ourselves in a pandemic. We're still working from a variety of locations. And so this work will span the state and be virtual work. Before that we're working on ensuring we have multiple ways for our teams to engage both synchronously and asynchronously and offering that support through a variety of platforms, given the dynamics that we're all facing still. So just to hone in a bit closer on a couple of things. So as I mentioned, we have the academic librarians involved in the project. This is an overview of what their responsibilities will include. And leading the training, supporting a curation process, and overall acting as project managers with their team. So doing things like affirming scope, providing direction, helping to set timeline and task, monitoring team achievement, and then helping to identify and clear roadblocks to success. And we also have those five teaching faculty on each team, working towards these outcomes or deliverables. And ultimately the goal here is to create a learning materials in this in the context of a redeployable open course. And for those learning material materials to be flexible, accessible and inclusive. So now I'll turn it over to Amelia. Hello everyone. It's great to be here today. I am Amelia brister. I'm the director of library and learning resources for Louisiana Delta Community College. I have over 12 years of experience as a teacher and librarian in K 12. And I'm also one of the librarian cohorts for the dual enrollment grant. I'm joined today to discuss some of the obstacles and challenges that we might face with this grant in order for it to be successful in our high schools. So the first thing I would like to talk about is advocates for district adoption. Many districts use curriculum coordinators and committees to identify and adopt curriculum at the K 12 level. So I think it's very important to note that these committees need to be made aware of OERs in order for us to be able to penetrate that world. And so we need to identify advocates for the OERs, such as librarians, librarians would be an invaluable resource that we can tap into by letting them know that the OERs are there. And then they can go back and demonstrate to their faculty the value of those resources, and the faculty can then advocate within the schools and within the committees. And even the larger community parents and the school board to get these resources adopted scripted text is another obstacle that I see that we might need to address. There has been a shift in the last five to 10 years to move to scripted text teachers have very little autonomy in our state for selecting instructional materials. And scripted text can be good and it can be bad teachers don't have to go out and find the materials and spend a lot of time putting the lesson together. All the material is already there for them. But that raises some questions will the lack of scripted text in the OER resources that we are putting together. Is that going to be an obstacle for students since the students are so used to seeing that scripted text, and many scripted texts are utilizing text which means they reinforce skills that the students have previously learned. So, would it be beneficial to put that structure into our OER text in order for our students to be more successful. The last thing is the digital divide and traditionally the digital divide has been connectivity issues, but I have noticed over the last few years that it has shifted also to technical challenges for our students. I noted here word versus Google Docs versus PDFs, and I'll explain a little more about that on the next slide. But I did want to note that some instructors expect assignments turned in using Microsoft Word but students in some K-12 schools only have access to Chromebooks. So that leaves the teachers, librarians and the students scrambling to figure out how to convert these documents or how to provide access to say Microsoft Word at the high school level when the college or university instructors expect a document turned in in a different format. Making OERs downloadable has reduced some of the strain of connectivity over the past year, and I will say within the last year schools have put a lot of funding into lessening the connectivity issue for the students and they are supplying hotspots for those students. So we have addressed the connectivity issue now the technical challenges is definitely something we need to address. If we can move to the next slide. That's it. Some high schools are more equipped through staffing to better handle dual enrollment programs. And this is an example of two schools in the same district, roughly the same size that handle dual enrollment within the school completely different. As you can see, as I go through this list, there is no standardized way for the schools in this district to offer dual enrollment. So it's really a challenge for our high schools to overcome some of these obstacles. So I've broken these two schools down into Campus A and Campus B. Campus A foresaw some of the challenges and they address the challenges of dual enrollment programs and OERs by advocating with the university to be a satellite campus so they could use their own high school instructors to teach materials. While Campus B did not and they still use the university instructors for their students. Campus A sets its own course schedule because it is considered a satellite campus they have the autonomy to do that. While Campus B relying on the university instructors teach on the university schedule which means the students receive instruction three days a week, as opposed to five days a week. On Campus A students usually supply their own devices. They don't have to, but this particular school actually encourages it so the students do. And those who do not have their own devices at Campus A receive additional support from instructors on how to manipulate documents into an accepted format. Campus B the students rely heavily on school supplied Chromebooks which limits the types of documents that students can use. Students rely heavily on librarians within the high school to offer technical support for converting documents created on Chromebooks into a format accepted by instructors such as Microsoft Word. And after talking to the librarian at Campus B there's quite a bit of frustration at that school because the instructors do not incorporate lessons on how to convert those documents for their students. On Campus A the textbooks and any materials are supplied to the students through funding that the school provides while Campus B textbooks are not provided and any dual enrollment classes students are required to purchase the textbook. So this is definitely an area of opportunity for this grant. Campus A both schools face frustration, I'm sorry, for both Campus A and Campus B both campuses face frustration with access to campus and library resources due to IP address restrictions. And since the students do not have a student ID or a Lola number, they have a very hard time accessing the resources provided by the school by the universities. Learning management system is also a challenge for both of these schools. Campus A has figured out a way to allow their students because they are a satellite campus of the university. They have figured out a way to allow their students to submit through Google Classroom while Campus B is still trying to figure that one out. The learning management system is the same as the university so students, while they're high school classes, they have to submit documents using Google Docs for the university it's blackboard. So there's a little bit of technical issue there. The last thing is on Campus A the instructors who are also high school teachers in the school take time to review materials covered by the end of course testing to ensure that students are also prepared for the testing season. They put a whole nine weeks into reviewing that material whereas Campus B instructors at the university have complete control over the curriculum and may not heavily focus on those end of course testing and as we all know the high schools focus a lot on the standardized test. So there's lots of challenges and lots of opportunity for this grant to be successful and I think as we move forward and address these concerns. I know that that we can definitely overcome this. Emily, I'm going to turn it back to you. Actually, I'm going to take over here. So, Milia set up a lot of the challenges. And so within the grant we have structured some opportunities to collaborate we certainly have not addressed every challenge. And hopefully today we can have discussion about how you all are addressing some of these challenges. In terms of digital divide. Since the pandemic we have put in place a digital inclusion task force in our state. And under this digital inclusion task force we've developed a plan was to treat strategic priorities for digital inclusion, including faculty professional development, enhancing digital literacy, and also addressing technology infrastructure so in this way we hope to advance to really reduce the digital divide in terms of skills and access to devices and broadband, particularly in our rule and low income populations. We were awarded a FCC grant in Louisiana of $342 million to expand high speed internet access in rural communities and 175,000 homes and businesses, though implementation for that program is expected to span a 10 year period. As Amelia mentioned, having the right presence of leadership and stakeholders within the high school community is a critical piece. And so the dual enrollment task force is a very important part of this membership on the statewide task force was established by a slightly different resolution, and includes designees, folks of the, you know, just some job titles executive director of the school board association, executive director of school superintendents. We have the association of public charter schools representative involved as well as higher education representatives so through things like a fast forward program, which will bring an associates degree and meaningful work experience into the 11th and 12th grade classroom will be, you know, connecting these communities in a meaningful way. And then the last piece and this is perspective worse work for Lewis is addressing this idea of connecting the pipeline. We are currently pursuing additional funding to develop and share a model for connecting post secondary and post secondary representatives within a library context, so looking at some research on how to best address the collaboration between the school and academic library and communities which we have not tackled to date and which we think is very critical in terms of enhancing our capacity to support we are projects, especially in the dual enrollment context. Let's go forward to our last slide I think this is just what we are tracking in terms of success, obviously savings to students on textbooks. This project is designed to promote widespread adoption within our state and beyond to achieve a statewide goal of universal access to dual enrollment opportunities. As we mentioned before, equity is critical here and reducing the DFW percentage through thoughtful course redesign, and then of course, we all want to do this again. Hopefully this is the first of 25 courses and we can replicate this for the remainder of our dual enrollment experiences. Okay, we're going to turn it back to Matthew. Excellent. Thank you so much for all of the detail about this really exciting project and I think that it's really going to have the potential to, you know, impact a lot of students and I think that that's really exciting so we'll have the opportunity to maybe address some more questions about that specific project a little bit later but for now I would like to go ahead and turn this over to a couple of our other guests here. So first we have Christina Ishmael who's senior research fellow for teaching, learning and technology at New America. And along with her we also I guess I'll just go ahead and let you Christina take over and and then we also have Dan McDowell, who's going to say a few words as well so go ahead. Thank you all so much. Hi everyone, my name is Christina Ishmael, my pronouns are she and her joining you all from Tacoma, Washington on the traditional lands of Coast Salish and people. I want to pay my respects to elders both past and present so thank you for allowing me to do so. So my first work at New America, where I served as a fellow and full time employee and all the things in the past five years was really a follow up to the product that I led at the US Department of Education on their work around open educational resources, which is how Dan and I know each other and have been able to work together over the past five to six years and so I'm excited to hear from him specifically and I'll give you a little preview as far as some of the work that we've been doing at New America if we can go to the next slide. So really what what it comes down to and what you heard from Terry and Emily and Amelia was around this building awareness. So, what I was excited to hear about whenever we first got together in this group was Louisiana got the got the award from Ed, but hoping to connect all the dots with the education there as well, because Louisiana brought together teachers from all across the state. About six years ago to actually write their own curriculum and it's all openly licensed, which is really exciting to hear and to see so it's all ELA English English Arts, and I saw that we have someone here from Zana do which is really great to see because what we do is a is a perfect partner in this whole project for the K 12 side. But anyway, our work really is around building awareness, as was mentioned, most curriculum folks in school districts don't know that we are is an option, and we're so entrenched in tradition when it comes to curriculum in general that we call the publishing companies and that's your newest and best, and don't look at other options. Given the pandemic we're actually seeing a lot of people turning to of course digital resources because we need to access them, but we are tends to be something that populates when you do searches now which is great. And so we do that through storytelling. We're doing a lot of curriculum conversations around how we can leverage we are to be more inclusive and representative of our student population. We've designed some professional learning content both at New America and with our partners at ISTI the International Society for Technology in education, CEDA the State Ed Tech Directors Association and others. And then of course we're keeping a pulse on our policy, because that is what we do as a think tank, which is what New America technically is. In case you haven't heard of us but we look at both the federal and the state level kind of policies and then of course we try to find some more local or district based policies that we can lift up. So when I hear dual enrollment I'm excited to know that that this is happening that these conversations are happening I am myself a, I guess, someone who graduated from a dual enrollment program in Phoenix. Matthew and I have had this conversation before. I was able to start my, my undergraduate career at Arizona State as a sophomore because I had enough credits to do so. Thanks to the Community College kind of system in Phoenix which is incredible. It is not always called dual enrollment, sometimes it's called concurrent enrollment, which is also important to note. And it varies wildly, like so many things across the country so like you kind of saw the school A and school B I really appreciated that slide Amelia because there are so many discrepancies even between school districts that it's really important to note, whether there is a district based teacher or Community College based teacher it fluctuates and my former state of Nebraska where I taught you had to have a master's degree in order to be considered for a concurrent or a dual enrollment position. Again, it varies wildly so we just try to keep a pulse on all of these things and be able to share that back with the field. One other big and kind of significant thing that I want to bring up is that we have a project site that we continue to curate and develop so that is on the next slide. And I realized that you all will get access to these slides because it's actually hyperlinked. This will give you access to the new America project site here, which has information on what this work has looked like in the K 12 kind of system over the past five to six years, more or less a map of school districts across the country that are using the area and if we could identify their content area or grade level we try to capture that as well. And then the thing that we're asked most often is where do you even start the search and so there's a curated list of resources to get started, as well as a curated list of professional learning resources. So, there are many, many more things that we can do in this space and I am thrilled to be joining when you all today to talk more about it. Stan, it's your turn. Okay, thank you. My name is Dan McDowell I'm the director of learning and innovation in the Grossmont Union High School District, and we are just east of San Diego or about 20 minutes from the beach and about 10 minutes from San Diego State University if you, if you know San Diego at all And we've been in this sort of OER space for since 2015. And that's when we were introduced to, to the idea through the go open movement. That was really an offshoot of the future ready movement that was a K 12 modernization. I could, I could spend the rest of the time talking about that but really just sort of, you know, we're looking at a few different things one more technology was getting into teachers hands but their textbooks were still where the content lived. Teachers were also kind of abandoning their textbooks that they still gave out to students instead of even said, just pulling everything they can off the internet without necessarily vetting what they were, what they were doing. We also really wanted to shift our focus to kind of a change in instructional practices to better engage students and better make sure all our students. We're learning and also start looking at our our resources, especially within our ELA and social science classes representative of our community and and the United States as a whole so that sort of got us into this into this world we did a lot of work within science. In fact, we do not have science textbooks anymore, all our science materials are, are we are and they've been board adopted. And, you know, we bought a handful of like high level science books but really haven't bought anything. Anything new, as far as the textbook is concerned instead, we've spent that money, it's not just like free money I'm sure our business person is bummed about that but it's been more about reallocating so we're investing in our teachers who are doing this work. We're investing in some supplemental resources because there are still things they're there we invested in an LMS as opposed to just using the free tools that are out there there's lots of things that we reallocate it repurpose the money for. Now, you know, sort of looking at this. This connection with dual enrollment and community colleges we're just in the beginning of that my district. We do not have a robust dual enrollment program in fact we do not have a dual enrollment enrollment program we have some concurrent enrollments. We are enrolled at both schools at the same time, the high school and the colleges but not a lot of crossover, other than my son bringing his ASL course that he took for his foreign language course to his counselor so he can get a through G, you know, things like that. And there are certainly lots of challenges, including associations on both sides of the both sides of the house and administrations on both sides of the house there's really four groups of negotiate negotiating that's going on. We, you know, in the next couple years, I'm relatively new to this positions my second year in this position and one of the things that that I'm started on last year and then I've been putting holes a little bit because of coven is building that that dual enrollment program with our local community college so Grossmont and queer Mac at community colleges are in our in our in our neighborhood and we've been we've been having some ongoing conversations about that and I see the we are work really helping support that because ultimately are you know, either. We're going to our dual enrollment students are not going to be buying books. So we want to make sure that that that we are getting the most bang for buck and me and investing in the instructional practices of our of our teachers both the community college teachers who work on our campuses and our own teachers who work for the community colleges teaching on their on their behalf. I think we're going to have get into a little bit more details in some some discussions but that's sort of the, you know, the gist of what what I do and I think why I'm here. Excellent thank you Christina and Dan both for giving us all those details as well and you're right yes we're going to get into some discussion here we are looking at about 20 minutes left. And as you can see these questions probably would on their own take up an additional hour or even more. And one of the ways that I kind of wanted to preface this entire discussion, and maybe I should have said this at the beginning of the webinar today is that you know we don't we're not really approaching this with the sense that we have all the answers I think a lot of this is. I love Christine's response to that, the shaking of the head. Yeah, this is really in a sense a discussion that I would love to hear from obviously our panelists, but but all of you out there, you know who are participating as attendees. You know please feel free to share some of your ideas and experiences in the chat as well because we would really like to know how you are answering or what kind of answers you have for these questions or some ideas that you might be trying to implement in your local area. So how much of this work needs to be done and like the question at the end what needs to happen to get this work started kind of betrays. Well, it's similarly to what had happened in the chat earlier rules like wait and what does that term mean, you know there's there's a sort of disconnect between higher ed and a 12 and for some reason, you know, we have difficulty bridging that disconnect and it doesn't really make sense for there to be a disconnect because there should be consistency or there should be, you know it is in a sense a kind of pipeline right so. Anyway, these are the questions why are these kinds of collaborations important either pay 12 institutions or higher ed or both. You know what specific considerations should those of us in higher education keep in mind when working with a 12 systems. How does this kind of collaborative work benefit the broader open education community either nationally or internationally. So kind of collaborations might be most valuable to foster in the near future and in the context, you know thinking about coven remote learning in general or or focus on equity and diversity and inclusiveness. And then finally what needs to have any of this work started so this is kind of like a nebula of questions here and I'm going to stop screen sharing. And if we can copy I'll try to copy and paste the questions in the chat so that everybody has quick access to them, but I want to stop screen sharing so that we can actually see and focus on the panelists so I let's go with the first question first and I don't know who wants to jump in but why is this important maybe this is, you know, an obvious answer, maybe not. Why are these kinds of collaborations important either particular institutions higher ed or both. I'll just jump in quickly and say that the data shows that providing early access to college experiences in high school really promotes, you know, attainment of some sort of credential. After high school so it's an effective strategy in helping students fulfill their, you know, post high school goals in life. Yeah I can follow up on that and say, for me these collaborations are important because I have many blind spots in this space, you know, hearing Amelia speak about her experience in Louisiana is enlightening for me because her experience has been in higher ed so it's so informative to have someone to collaborate with who can shed light on that and then another reason why collaboration is important is because you know it in states like Louisiana, where we have high poverty and educational attainment, uneven access to higher ed, a collaboration is essential these are big issues in Louisiana Louisiana we have a statewide higher ed master plan and I was looking at that yesterday and it was saying that 47% of working age adults hold a high school diploma or less. This is a real challenge for the state in terms of our achievement our prosperity of the people. And so it's just essential that we have all hands on deck for this type of work. And I'll just jump in there as well I think we, we sort of have this college going feeling at high schools that is focused on AP tests. And, and I do not necessarily as a former AP World History teacher, which I got out of the game because it was, it was wasn't working for me and for the students that I, that I, that I had that it's, it's, it's unrealistic to put in a single high stakes test and for students to do all this work over the course of the year college level work but then they. It just so happened I missed a particular, they did going into depth on a particular topic or they just had a bad day and then all of a sudden everything's writing on that that single piece so this is a sort of an alternative and and there are you know I've been successful in in the area and their students are walking out with with a lot more credits than some of our AP level students who've taken every AP tests and gone through all the stress and also father of a of a student who took, you know, seven AP tests and man that was unpleasant during those those those testing weeks right. And so this is just an opportunity to get students, you know, having some success out of in college courses. And also kind of be the high school classroom is that bridge to the community college or university level, instead of like all of a sudden you're in a whole different system it's kind of going to give students that in between experience that I think will help them be successful because a lot of students are in college and they don't know quite what to do with it. And whether again it's it's a it's a community college or a university for your university and it's important for us to kind of make that shift and the we are materials in my view is that sort of part of that bridge because oftentimes when you get to the, the, you know, the college one way or another it's all of a sudden about content and less about instruction. And I think I think building strong instructional practices which is, I think a larger focus here in the K 12 realm than it is in the in the post secondary realm would will help students be successful. Once they once they're out of high school and beyond to just a few a few thoughts I had. Well thank you so much I think that we can go ahead and move on to the second question here which is what specific consideration should those of us in higher education, keep in mind when working with K 12 system. I'll go ahead and jump in for this one if you don't mind. I think, of course, with all my background in K 12. I'm pretty opinionated on this one. It's very important to consider time management for schools in the K 12 world is, I mean there's just never enough time to squeeze in all the skills and content that you want to put in there. So I think that to make this very successful. We have to focus on demonstrating practical ways like I think. The heavy demonstration of how this is going to save time and be the easiest thing for you to implement in your classroom is going to put us above and beyond. When districts are making a choice of are we going to shift to the OER's or are we going to stick with our publishers funding is another issue, and it's wrapped up in all the fancy ways of saying we're going to save you money. Say it an explicit term so everyone hears us loud and clear. This is going to save funding. And then the power of relationships I just maybe it's because I'm in Louisiana and have been for years, but we build on relationships, a lot of our districts talk to their counterparts and other districts to see what they're doing. And that's where the adoptions come from. So if we can build on those relationships in order to break into that very exclusive K 12 club that's going to to get our foot in the door. So building off of that I would just say that K 12 is its own world, as we know, and so is higher ed. It was even evident earlier when, when Amy asked what is scripted text me scripted curriculum, and we don't always have the same language or the same vocabulary. It's important to know going into that. I love what Amelia just said around funding, you know, we, when I was leading go open we talked about saving districts money, and then working with folks like Dan and other districts like well, it's a reallocation of funds, because it really is making sure that teachers are compensated for the time, energy and effort we're not asking them to do this for free by any means. And it is repurposing and reallocating the funds that would be traditionally just written into the publishing companies. It's also a deep investment in professional learning, because it requires, it requires teachers to dig into their own content as impacting standards and really prioritizing things to make sure that there is a cohesive scope and skeet scope and sequence, and then finding the materials either curating existing materials or being able to create those materials. It also allows for flexibility when it comes to how we approach it so when Dan was talking about the instructional practices, we have the subject matter experts really at the higher ed level, and that's really how like one school really approached this work where they worked with the higher ed institution that was in their community as the sneeze or the subject matter experts to look at the content that the K 12 district created to ensure validity and quality and everything like that. But then the teachers at the K 12 level were the ones that were able to, you know, implement, and they did that through a variety of practices and maybe that was project based learning inquiry based learning. There was more of that stand and deliver or the stage on the stage model, but they were able to get in there and be as interactive as possible and possible co creation with students which is one of our ultimate goals when we talk about open education. Great thank you so much and I know that there are probably a lot of ideas I see some talk in the chat right now and again I just encourage anyone to chime in in the chat if you'd like obviously we're running short on time here but one thing I do want to do is is to cover the the last two questions. And so, let's focus on this next let's skip the third one for now because I think that that might get us that's kind of like opening up a can of worms like right how does this, how does this like impact the world how does this impact the larger advocacy that we're trying to do is as you know in open education as this one. Let's focus on the kind of practical things so what kind of collaborations I can see some of some of what you your experiences that revealed to us so far but what kind of collaborations might be most valuable to foster in the near future. And, along with that, let's see if we can't address both these questions at once potentially what needs to happen to actually get that kind of collaboration happening. Let's start off. I think just a, you know, I think Christina alluded to it. We need to understand each other's worlds. You know, and I think we spent a lot of our time actually sort of immediately following into the weeds of why things don't work or why what would need to happen instead of kind of getting that understanding and then finding finding where we can, where we can meet in between you know, in our OER OER work. We partnered with actually our San Diego State University to help that some of our world history resources and and in retrospect actually it might have been maybe better to go to our community college, which are, you know, even closer than than San Diego State to us to maybe build that, that bridge into, into those departments where some of our students will will ultimately, ultimately end up and as we look at, we've already done some collaboration in our writing programs with with the local community colleges to make sure that our students, you know, about 40% of our students end up at our one of our two community colleges that they're successful when they go into those writing programs. Right, so we're already starting to do that on some levels we just need to deepen that and then, and then formalize some of those connections to make sure that it goes beyond just just our writing program. One just very basic thing that has been an unforeseen struggle for us is the idea of compensation and subcontracting with 11th and 12th grade instructors we've got a mature way of doing that, which took quite a bit of time in Louisiana as in order to fight to hire and compensate college faculty in bringing up project teams and collaborative ventures and ensuring that we're equally compensating high school instructors. It's not been an easy feat to recruit to know the communication outlets that should be utilized to reach the right people and then figuring out what is the, how do we compensate them. What's appropriate what's disallowed and so as speaking as an administrator. It's something that, you know, we have to tackle and get over to move forward. I think one other thing to highlight coming from the policy side of things is just recognizing the term unprecedented being used so much in the past year but the unprecedented amount of dollars that are coming to states right now. With the ARPA funds the American Rescue Plan funds that were signed into into effect the last month. Millions and millions of dollars are coming to states and while there is a certain percentage that is earmarked for the state themselves to be able to do kind of innovative practices and thinking about recovery of potential and I avoid saying learning loss because I don't necessarily enjoy that term but how can they, you know, really focus on on that work at the state level but then the rest of that funding directly to the school districts. And so this is the time not only to build awareness with states but also with school districts to let them know how they could potentially spend that money. OER should certainly be considered on that because we we fully recognize that publishers have not been able to keep up with the demands of remote learning or of distance learning in this whole process. And so how could we potentially pitch OER as as one of the opportunities here or one of our potential solutions so it's important to keep a again a keep a pulse on the funding that would help make sure that all of this happens in action. And a quick quick response to that as there are tons of vendors who are ready to sell you anything. And I just don't answer my phone anymore because it's almost always a vendor. Unless it's in house so you know I can see if it's in house. And we also have to look at like the silver lining of this year is so many instructors at every level have now done online teaching and learning, and hopefully they're seeing what worked and what didn't work. But the level of expertise is is so much further and and and I can say within my district the teachers who have been on the OER bandwagon since 2015 thrived this last year. They thrive because they were already sort of doing that. And now we have more believers who are going to who are going to join us as we as we you know we hit pause this year because we just couldn't do it. And we start next year I'm already having people who who were not even involved previously like I want to be involved from here on out because they use the resources, but because they weren't part of building it they didn't, it took them a while to understand. And so, and so I think that's something we have to harness is bringing, you know, bringing the expertise that we got this year, the experience and the expertise that we got this last year, and, and also being able to trust our instructors, some to help to help share that. I would like to add what Dan said to what Dan said about the vendors in the districts that I have come from vendor is a very bad word, because they are just constantly calling the people who make the decisions. So, I think another way to approach it would be a valuable goal, maybe to foster those relationships at a grassroots level with decision makers in the district. And to do that, it's as simple as reaching out to your 10 closest friends and saying okay who in this district can I talk to. And letting them put you in contact so it's not a cold call it's someone you know who has already a relationship with the people in the district who can make those decisions, and just ask them for a virtual coffee you know and respect their time take 10 minutes and pitch. The OER and the program. I have found that you get much farther with grassroots relationships than cold calls. So I just wanted to put that out there. Well, thank you very much and with that I will that with that final word I would just like to thank everybody for coming today and obviously we could keep talking about this and this is just the beginning. There's a lot of conversations that need to happen. So, if you have, if you have questions about the slides and stuff like that if you've registered then you'll have access to that afterwards so we do have some webinars coming up you can check our website. April 14 today may 12 and June 9. We have a couple webinars coming up and always please, you can join the community emails a great resource for staying in the loop in terms of, you know, a lot of discussions about resources and things like that. We also have our EDI blog posts and student OER impact stories available and there's a lot of other opportunities on the website so please check it out and again thank you everybody for coming and have a great day.