 We're really back today because we examine things here on Sync Tech and especially on America, what's the name of the show, America finding its way. We have a long way to go to find our way. Today the title is another intersection between COVID and voting and what you know the reference there is that both of them have been completely politicized among certain parts of the population. Yes, we have vaccines. Science has prevailed at least in some part, but we also have people who don't want to take the vaccines. Yes, we have masks. No, there's a lot of people who don't want to take them. It's still politicized. It's really nut kicks, but there you have it. And the voting, of course, the voting is so obviously opposed to what the founding fathers wanted. The voting is so absolutely wrong. Let me preface all this with one point of discussion. I know a fellow who says, I follow the rule of law. I said, good. He says, and there are 40 or 50 states now that have campaigns to do voter suppression legislation. And if the Republicans succeed in getting those laws passed, that's the law. I follow the rule of law, however it gets to be the law. And if a judge makes a ruling that it's wrong, I don't care. That's the law. I follow the rule of law. What do you think of that, Tim? Well, it's, I hate to say it's rather immature thinking. I mean, we can extend that kind of thinking to the sports field. Well, I got a bad call, but I'm going to live with it because it's in my favor. And it really comes down to, I really think these 200 and some odd new laws that have been passed in 43 different states as really an extension of January 6th. And it's a rejection of our democracy. It's a rejection of the democracy of fairness of the vote. And excuse me, Stephanie made reference to the reconstruction days. Guess how many jelly beans are in this jar before you get to vote? We're going back to those days because, again, we're kind of in a cold civil war still. And January 6th was a real eye-opener to that fact. And now all these states are voting in all these crazy restrictive rules about who can vote, how they can vote, and when they can vote. And so let's review for a moment what happened in the previous administration. We had gerrymandering clear. That was a Republican initiative. We had this no mail-in balloting across the country. And all those lawsuits, remember those lawsuits? 50, 60 lawsuits across the country. We had all these technical obstacles that Republicans and Republican governors were putting in the way of voting. We had, for example, let's remove all the ballot boxes so it's more difficult for them to get to the polls. Let's limit the number of polls. Let's limit the number of the poll workers. Let's make it harder for them to prove who they are. Let's clean the ballot rolls if you haven't been around, if you haven't registered on a repeated basis. And then, of course, there was the intimidation. And that's all before this election. And so now we have, it didn't take 60 days, now we have the Republicans trying additional measures. And they're winning them in some places. They're going into the states and they're putting in bills, what, 254 bills already that we know about. And some of those bills are going to get passed. And then they oppose HR1 on top of that. Now, if HR1 fails, that's the law. And it's probably will. I'm sorry to tell you guys, it probably will fail. Mitch McConnell has sworn he's going to oppose it and all the power he has. And if they win in the states and they get these anti-voting, suppression voting, racist bills passed, that's the law. I mean, can we tolerate that? What's the proper approach on that? I mean, for a good, engaged, civic American, don't even talk about party affiliation. Okay, well, I guess my answer is I'd like to talk to your friend and say, if you are so committed to the rule of law and you follow the rule of law, then what about President Biden's executive order of election reform that countermands most of those 254 proposed bills? What about that rule of law? You have the executive power and the executive orders, which is the rule of law. But by policy, isn't all the law driven by policy? Should be. Often it isn't. But it should be also driven by debate, debate on the policy. But that's not happening in our Congress either. So at this point, I'm sorry, go ahead. Stephanie, what about morality? What does morality fit in the rule of law? I think that we have an assumption that it is all out there for everybody and that everybody has a notion of it that's similar. And let's go back to the founders. They took care of a lot of this that could have arisen then, maybe, but they restricted who had the vote and who was in the game, who was in the governing game. People with property, no women, educated men. I never thought I'd be interested in our Supreme Court Justice Scalia's originalism. In fact, I had totally rejected it. But it may be that we need to be thinking about getting back to that list of values. I mean, the underpinnings of the Constitution out of the thinking and the beliefs and the values of the time. It looks like we're going to have to do some heavy deep diving on this because we're moving towards, with the way you describe it, we possibly are moving towards the West. You know, I've mentioned that before. Dodge City and with no Marshall Dylan, but a lot of guns. So you raise an enormous prospect here that we need to think about and analyze and remedy if possible. If we can remedy it, if we stay in the majority enough to remedy it because it's going to get down to that. Yeah. So Winston, we have people, you know, they're kind of Trump's stragglers. I guess I do believe that Trump is losing his mojo by simply not being in the public eye. But, you know, we have these stragglers who still refuse to wear masks. It's a political statement who don't do social distancing. Governors, you know, who reopen and tell everybody can do whatever they want, despite the science. And we have, you know, we have the variants coming at us. That's pretty risky business. And all of this extends the life of the COVID epidemic. All of this puts other people at risk. And on the other hand, we completely politicize the notion of free voting. And as I said, I don't think that HR1 is going to pass. All the indications are it's not going to pass. What do you think is going to happen? A complex question, multiple parts. But I think basically, you know, when I was watching those, the kids encouraged by their parents and lawmakers to burn masks in Idaho on the steps of the Capitol, that just sort of encapsulates the problem that we're dealing with right now. We need to reach the youth. And you would think that the youth would probably don't catch up. You know, your parents tell you to do whatever you're supposed to do and you do it. But after a while, kids pretty much figure out the internet on their own, and they're able to bypass everything in schools, I think, to get onto stuff or their friends will have it. So they'll hopefully educate themselves. But that's a long time before they get to the point of voting. And even then have lost entire faith in the system when they can see these egregious examples of what was it? No water given to people in the voting lines? Or what was the thing you heard yesterday? Yeah, that's one of those bills. It's one of those bills. The gerrymandering, the lack of universal voting, I mean, based on just driver's licenses and social security cards and just those sorts of things. There's so much we can do to make this process easier, better, more secure. And there's people who have a vested interest in that not happening. And we need to be constant of that. And like we were talking yesterday after the show, it seems like I don't know where the Supreme Court's going to go on this, but they seem to defer to the legislatures of various states in their rulings. They were reticent to intervene as jurists and said this is up to them. Now, given when push came to shove, they would probably take a stamp. I don't know. That hasn't really been tested yet. And so it is happening state by state, crazy law by crazy law. And it depends on what state you live in. Do you live in a state that values democracy and participation and robust civic engagement or not? And that's what it comes down to. And that's probably where it's going to come down to. Before the election, the Republicans were in lockstep under Trump. And one would have thought that after the election that would have somehow been modified. But in large part, the Republicans are still in lockstep. They were in lockstep to turn the election over. They voted right down to the person mostly within a few exceptions only to turn it over in the historic session right after the January 6th insurrection. They still voted to turn it over. And now they're voting on everything in lockstep, nearly every Republican. And you can bet your Bibi that they'll vote against HR1. They'll vote against anything that Biden puts on. What holds them together? What is it? Because from just an observer point of view, I wish I could say, I wish we could all say there's a reason for this. But what is the reason? What holds them together? And they show no sign of relenting. Well, Jay, sometimes you flummox me. I use terms like you bet your Bibi, which is a Rona Martin's laughin' line from 1969. So great question, which filled with all sorts of intrigue. The short answer, Jay, is Donald Trump still rules the GOP. I mean, sorry, that's the short answer. And they are frightened of him. Fearfully, I mean mortally frightened of death with this guy. And until that death grip is released, you won't see them break ranks. You won't see it. Now, I just wanted to take one comment about the HR1 and your position about it's not likely it will pass because you need 60 senators. But what if HR1 had a huge financial component to it, which is to say federal dollars for each state to ensure that some of these proposals in HR1 are actually followed? And there's a price tag, a dollar budget assigned to HR1. Could you not use then the reconciliation process, the one left, the one mohawk and left, and use it and then try to get your passage through 51 votes, including the vice president? Oh, never forget the parliamentarian. The parliamentarian's got to find an intrinsic connection between... Well, I don't know any parliamentarian that runs this country, it's called the President of the United States that runs this country. Okay, well, I hope you can be somewhat optimistic about that. But so far McConnell has said, Tim, he said he's going to fight it tooth and nail. And so what makes McConnell do that? Forget about Trump, what makes McConnell do that? Is it loyalty? Has he found some sort of renewed loyalty to Trump? Does he believe it's okay to mount an insurrection, incite an insurrection, and he'll still love you anyway? What is it that motivates the man? Well, he like Lindsey Graham is too faced. On Monday, he'll say one thing, and on Wednesday, he'll say complete 180 degree difference. So who knows what's going to be transpired between now and HR comes up to the floor. Expect him to change its position like the wind. That's all you can depend on. Does he have a new founded agreement with Donald Trump? Probably somewhere in there, deep under the, under the covers that we haven't seen. But the bottom line is, if you put your mind to it, it could still work. You can get this thing passed. And I agree with your comments yesterday. This election in 2022 is going to be paramount. And if it's not addressed now, it's going to be a big mess in 2022. So you might as well, you might as well put in the safeguards to keep the rule of the rule of law, which your friend likes to adhere to, about election security and election fairness. You know, you know, Stephanie, yes, Winston? I just, when you ask that question about Tim, why do these guys do this? It's, I've been thinking about that too a lot. Like, what's Lindsey Graham when he's, he's done with Donald, but that was, that was, you know, whatever it was. And now he's back to, you know, look in the boots. And so I figure it's a, it's a compromise. It's a, a compound of compromise, whatever they got. It's a, it's a compound of, of Stockholm syndrome. It's a compound of, it seems like almost like battered wife syndrome, really. There, there's that fear and terror that maybe, you know, he'll go after the children or the dogs or maybe he led with the dogs already. And so there's all of this mixed in. And then there may be some tiny underlying bit of, well, he got our, our whatever passed, our judges in and our tax cuts in there. So it's this sort of unholy mix that's, that's sticking it all together with probably a sincere trip to their churches, synagogues, and, and any other places that they worship that Donald Trump's influence will, will wane significantly over time. I don't see it happening. And it'll be interesting to see if the Josh Hollies of the world, which I saw he and Marjorie Taylor Green spiked in donations right after all of the, you know, when it all the mess was happening, like their, their websites were, were spiking with donations because people were like, you're my two heroes. So they may be, it'll be interesting to see that they become the natural heirs to the Donald Trump draw. He just sort of sits back and enjoys his base is going to follow someone. So one of the questions, you know, it's been suggested and seems clear to me, but I want to know your thoughts. And if you do think about their motivation is for these people, you have to think about racism. You have to think about whether, you know, there's a fundamental gross racism that motivates them in the voting suppression area. I can't imagine what else it is. They want to have a white country. They don't want blacks or browns. And, and although they may not admit it, this has got to be a big part of their thinking and their motivation, whatever happens. What do you think? Because I think you've raised just profound issues in these questions and all of the statements that Winston and Tim have made are really interesting. But I think that, you know, we can't dismiss the role of power and money. Okay. And also the insight that we have, and hopefully all our fellow citizens have, that these guys, the mansion and the Lindsey Graham and, and, and Mick, Mick, Mitch, they are playing both sides of the coin here. I mean, so it is just so clear that they're on both of the tracks so that they'll be sure to be in the front of the train. So they're just waiting to see how it's all going to break and they will have their paths laid out because they're interested in the power. And then all of them can't be interested in the big power like Mitch and Manchin and these people who are trying to play both sides so that when it does get clear on who is the heavyweight and where it's going and where the people are going to follow, that that's where the money is. And so that's what they need to do, which is to get in a position to be in the best place. And I mean, it is scoundrel. It is, it is that, that scoundrel word that the founders did use. I mean, these people have no, as you ask, what are these values and what, what are these principles that these people are going by? Well, hey, let's just admit there aren't many. Well, you say money, but are you saying, Stephanie, this is an important question. Are you saying that self-aggrandizement is what motivates them? Because there is a lot of money. Think about it. There's a lot of money. Trump, you know, is pocketing a lot of money. McConnell is pocketing a lot of money. Is it, is it that? Is that why they do this for money in their own pockets? I don't know that some of them have, certainly have that motivation or incentive, but the other part of it is anarchy. I mean, this is just so interesting as to what was going on towards the end of the 19th century, the 19th century and this anarchists all over the place, throwing bombs, attacking the Empress. Why would you, why would you seek chaos? Because you enjoy putting on your horned hat and painting yourself up and being a cowboy. Don't you worry about chaos eating you? Pardon me? Don't you worry about chaos coming back on you and destroying your quality of life. Chaos doesn't really help anybody. Well, if I'm doing chaos, I'm doing it to meet my need for chaos, which really doesn't care about my, what my life is. My life is probably not what I want it to be. And I probably don't even know about having money and making my life, you know, that would be satisfying to me or make me, happier than going for chaos. So all of these people are motivated. These base things, a lot of the time. And I think that that may be the case here. These people enjoy doing that. They left good jobs to go do that. Let me throw this at you. Money is a way to get power, especially in these United States now in the 21st century. If you want an election, you want to win an election, you really must have money. And you can effectively using media and TV and what you can buy votes. You can calculate how much it costs to buy a vote. And of course, there's all these, you know, backroom things, but that also costs money. So money may be nice in your pockets, but it is actually a pathway to power. Okay, that's right. I don't fully understand power. I must say, but it seems to me that that is the single biggest thing. Because with power, you can do all kinds of things you never thought of before. You just know that you have a blank check. It's a blank check on power over the people. It's just a thought. It also is attractive to all of the people who are a disenfranchisers or think they are or want more money. But the other part of it has to do with we have to learn how to use the media and the internet. And I just want to point out two things that have happened. One of which is the let's defund the police. Now that went out as a meme and this never stopped and will never stop and will never quit hearing about it. And I'll bet there's not 1% of people in this country that want no police forces in their city as the Democrats are being accused of not wanting any police around them. What happens? That's anarchy. But there's that. So we need to know better how to handle the messaging and you need money to influence and set up situations. And the other example of that that I see lately is that the asking somebody about the color of their skin or what kind of baby are you having? Are you having red? Are you liking to have a red? I mean saying those kinds of things that then flash off around the internet just like defund the police and other memes that have been thrown out. And it goes hey what? And the meaningfulness of it is just completely constructed by every human brain that it's not driven by an intention to get a message out. So we've got a lot of work to do. We've got a lot of work to do. But Tim you know I wonder you know it really does sound like a kind of civil war all pointed to 2022 and 2024. Actually that rhymes. And you know the Republicans are making the war. I think the Democrats are playing it straight mostly. Biden is certainly playing it straight. He's doing what he can within his powers to advance initiatives that help the people all very faithful and good faith. You know but if you're trying if you're seeking chaos that's not good faith. It can't be good faith. And you know the war the Republicans are waging you know with trying to undo the government's efforts to you know to beat the COVID. And of course the voting rights issue is just tragic. But meanwhile we can't lose sight of the fact that they are doing this all of this to gain power in 2022 and 2024 so that they can have their blank check on power in the Congress and do whatever they want and you know beat the Democrats on everything. That's why I think another leg of that war is they try to you know decredibilize Joe Biden, criticize everything he does. Never ever vote for anything that the Democrats put into Congress. Never ever. I think we're going to see that going forward. And my question to you is not easy. Is that sustainable? Can we have a government that will operate that way on sort of a gamesmanship approach? Tough question Jay. I think we've seen shades of this for the last 150 years. And I go back to the comments that Stephanie made yesterday is we haven't progressed from the days of Reconstruction. At this current time the GOP knows the demographics are not behind them. They cannot win a vote based on white male votes only. They can't win those elections. So their only alternative is to restrict those who can vote. And that's why they're going to dig in their heels on these 200 and some odd 253 new cockamamie rules and laws that are going across 43 states. They know they cannot win. And my proof, my evidence, Georgia. Georgia is a classic example where they thought that a red state would stay red, but through aggressive door-to-door knocking and convincing voters that felt hopeless to vote in the past that their vote could count, would count and did count. And that is why the Republicans will fight these things to the end because they know they won't work and they won't win in 2022 and 2024. And so it's up to the Democrats and it's up to independents to say we want fair election. And if your platform doesn't win the day in ideas and policies, then change your platform. Be competitive. Win elections based on ideas and policies, not on racism and cutting people out of the vote. You know Winston, one of the things that we really need to talk about is what's in the pipeline from Joe Biden. We know he's got HR1. We know he's got immigration. We know he's got infrastructure. We know he's got gun control. What did I miss? There's a bunch of things, four or five things. He's named them. But at the end of the day, they all require legislation. He can do a lot, I shouldn't say a lot. He can do some things by proclamation. But at the end of the day, he's going to need to get legislation through the Congress. I fear that he won't be able to do that. But the Republicans are going to be a lock step and they can and will do everything they possibly can to stop his initiatives, even though the Democrats have a majority of both House and Senate. What are your thoughts about that? They don't have a majority with our vice president who can cast a tie-breaking vote depending on Joe Manchin goes along with things. You mean the filibuster, right? Anything. Like I said yesterday, a bridge for everyone in West Virginia, golden toilets and a fatted hog. The reality is, as I said yesterday, we have the most competent saying, respected, respectful man in office, a person in office who's most qualified to ever hold this position. Maybe folks will come around. I'm not overly hopeful, but we have to also think, why do these people, why do people, why did they vote half the nation? Why is it voting in the other way? Is it racism or is it just fear? Is it fear of change? Is it fear that they're America that they grew up with? Isn't that America anymore and having to look at that in the mirror when you go to the mall or Safeway or wherever it is you're going and you've been used to a certain system and a certain everything and now it's just not that way anymore and someone's telling you who to hate and that who's to blame and that's really easy to do, but the promise of this nation is that everybody gets lifted up and rights have never been given to any group. Okay, but in the next two years, I suggest to you that Joe Biden's initiatives like immigration, infrastructure, gun control, you name it, they're not going to go anywhere. He needs to focus on them, been getting out because that's what people will respond to. Don't go after the guns. Send a Bible to everybody's house along with the check. You know, he's not signing the checks. Maybe he could sign the Bible courtesy of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I mean, you know, just letting people know it's okay folks. We've got to, you know, I look like you even if I'm saying something a little bit different, our country holds promise for everybody and we've got to raise everybody up in this nation because that's what we do as Americans. And so if he can appeal to our base root identity as a place of promise that this nation has been and has always been right, we had a really hard four years of bruising and battering of our ideals, but we can come back to them and he's got a lot of work to do. He's only been in two months. We've got to give him a break. Things move fast and the news cycle moves so quickly, it's blinding. Stephanie, you're pulling earlier about, you know, a lot of work to do and we have to train people, generations to come, you know, and understanding what's going on. But you know, I had a conversation with one of my walking buddies this morning and she said, you know, I'm not, I'm not watching television so much anymore. You know, I don't like the, I don't like the commercials that much. There's not that much news. You know, the day of Trump, it was all raw meat. It was outrage after outrage. And you know, you were glued to the tube to find out what crazy thing he had done that day. He certainly knew how to keep your eyes glued to the tube. Now I think we have this kind of creeping complacency. He's not there. You don't care as much. You're offended by the commercials. You're, you know, you're not as excited as you were. And I'm concerned that over the next couple of years, people are going to drift off. They're not going to be interested so much in these elections. They're not going to be responding to all the email, you know, asking you for five dollars. And we won't find the same level of civic engagement without him that we have with him. And by the time we get to 2022, the guys who are the Republicans who are mounting the civil war will have an advantage for that. What do you think? Well, I think you're certainly onto something there. And I believe that, well, there are a couple of things. You're, you're bringing up the Donald in a way that it is important because he's a leader. Okay. So they see him as a leader. And what we don't have anywhere else is a leader, except we have Biden, who is a leader in a, in a quiet mode, in a new mode, in a mode that reflects our values. Now, whether that can be, be, you know, loud enough, a leadership model for all of these, for all of us to, to galvanize towards that way of leadership that we've all been, now we, we've had so much of it and been so annoyed with it, but now it's gone and now we miss it. But anyway, so we need a leader. That's very perverse. It's not, it's not Lindsey Graham. It's not Joe Manchin. So where's this leader going to come from? So we need to find them and it doesn't look like it might, it would be the Senator from Utah. But the other, the other point I want to make is we've got to get to the people and all of you have been saying this, we have to get to the people, because that's what the Republicans have done. It got laid into this down into the States and gotten all that fixed their way. Well, we have to keep on getting to the people, which they're trying to get in the way of with the, all this voter and depression, oppression, and that we have somebody like a Stacey Abrams, okay, who's working this side. And we've got, we've got to really support her and praise her and make sure she stays on that work, not just in Georgia, but I think she even says she understands that this has to be done in all those other States that are having this problem. So we've got to get direct, because if we get to the people, okay, which is what this country is about, is the people, they actually have the right to vote, which is what the Republicans don't want, because they will not vote for this junk we have to deal with. So we do have to find our leader, respect our leader, make sure our leader is well understood and know, and then we've got to get the people to attend to it. I think Stacey's one key. Yeah, well, you know, maybe, maybe we're into another, another wave of activism, I mean, like Stacey, good example. And I, and I wonder, you know, Tim, what do you think we need to do? I say we, I mean, people who are civically engaged, people who care about the future of the country, who see these events as affecting the future of the country, who believe, you know, with me that, you know, it's going to affect us all. Nobody is exempt from these events. What do we do? It's the temptation to turn our backs on it. It's so great to go complacent. What do we do? Do we give money? Do we write op-ed pieces? What do we do? Well, money, the love of money is the root of all evil, which you were getting that to earlier in the discussion here. And so no, more money is not necessarily the way to win the elections on a long-term permanent basis. I go back to what Obama tried to do or wanted to do, unsuccessful, is reverse Citizens United, the Supreme Court decision to get real big money out of our election cycle. And I think Republicans, the voter, the common, the common folk, both on both sides of the divide, the political divide, will believe in that. They know that money is corrupting our political system. And so I think somewhere in Joe Biden's agenda, reversing Citizens United might be well-served and actually benefit both sides of our political system. And I think that maybe voters would support that. Yeah, well, that would be interesting. But you know, it's a knee-jerk matter that Mitch McConnell will oppose anything that changes the status quo for him. Of course. Yes, I know that. That's the problem. But I know your point, I think, is well-taken in the sense that there are a couple of little things that could have big effect. Reversing Citizens United, which was so damaging, destructive to the country. And you knew at the time it was handed down, this would happen. And it has happened right on cue. That case is absolutely corrosive. The other thing is the filibuster. It's become clear that the filibuster and the cloture rule, they are destroying the power of Congress. Congress has destroyed itself with those rules. We've got to stop that sort of thing. And also the rule that lets any senator require the reading of every bill. That's game-playing. We do not have time for that. I mentioned the other day that I think the one failure of the Constitution that's worth discussing is the fact that it makes it so hard to amend. We should be amending it to amend it with the times. The times they are changing. So a little thing, like knocking off the cloture rule, would have a huge effect on public policy and the viability of Congress. A little thing, like the Supreme Court knocking off Citizens United, would have a huge effect on our country. We have to shed those things. A little change makes for a big result. Anyway, let's do closing statements. Winston, take two hours. Go ahead. Go for it. Well, Jay, Citizens United disaster for my nation, our nation, I think it's probably too late for that. Everyone in office has already been, I don't want to say paid for. I just say the money in politics is so overwhelming right now. How do you take it out? Just in those Georgia races, the two Senate races alone, it was almost a half a billion dollars, wasn't it, that was poured into those races just for those two seats? These are extremely consequential races. Money's gone. Half a billion dollars could buy a lot of clean water in Michigan. It's not where it's at. And I think another point that I just wanted to bring up is that for us, what can we do? You said, what can we do? We can have a show on ThinkTech. We can have our own YouTube show. We can go to our neighborhood board meetings. We can write to our senator. We can speak up when we feel like it. And we can donate to causes and organizations that are promoting the values that we want to see enacted because we do speak louder with organizations. And we can stay informed. We can read. We can read a variety of publications. We can keep our minds open. We can keep our hearts open. And we need to view our neighbors, our friends, our coworkers, our family members. They're not enemies. And we don't need to have a civil war. We need to have a civil discussion and realize that they are compatriots who feel the same way that we do that. We've both been bamboozled from the other side and we're brainwashed. And we need to get past that and find the ways to get past that and have good will on both sides. And it's going to take an enormous effort because we are so manipulated by media, by social media, by bombastic leaders, by Russia, by people that, you know, whatever it is. And so, but I remain, we have Joe Biden as our president right now. That took the Herculean effort, but if we can do that, that meant that we reached enough hearts and minds for people to do the same right thing. And now we just have to continue that, but extend the dialogue on a personal level and how we talk, how we think, how we want the world to be, be the change you wish to see, right? I mean, and today is, and you mentioned Canasta yesterday, for the, for the youngins out there, Google Canasta, there's all kinds of different forms depending on which Latin America country version you like. It's something we need to bring back and we need to bring you back with all the people who we have de-friended or unfriended over the last few years and just sit around over Canasta and, and play some games. Canasta may be the safe all of it where we just sit around the table. Stephanie, you're much too young for this discussion. I love Canasta. You wouldn't even remember Stephanie about Canasta. So, Stephanie, what are your thoughts on this? Well, this discussion has been most provocative and it's made me realize that at State DC Abrams, a point made to go and, and talk to the people and bring the people into the conversation of this nation, certainly into voting, but turning around all of the strategies and the way we act in media and, you know, doing things that promote the message and don't get the message into, turned into a weapon in the hands of other people, but the other side of it you bring up too is with Citizens United. Now, that's the other pocket book. Okay, so you got the gov with its money and I think there's some controversy about who's got the most money, the gov or corporations, but we need also to use that in another way. So, so maybe Joe Biden can is going to work on this, but how do you turn that around so that the United Citizens United donors are brought to accountability and are brought to attend to what it is they're doing and how can we press on them to do it differently? So, we've got a lot of really big strategizing the Democrats do have need of doing that. The Republicans have been doing that for 20, 30 years, which is why they've got the states all tied up in knots. So now it's time to get on with our wonderful leaders already like Stacey Abrams and whoever can get the corporations to help out in ways as big as what the party can do on its own. I mean, that's why we got the George folks, right, the two senators. I mean, that didn't just come from people putting money in. Well, I used to say all politics is local, you know, and maybe that's so. I mean, if I stand on this on the street corner on the roadway at seven o'clock in the morning, I talk to my neighbor, I tell my neighbor what I think about these things and she tells me that's that's tonic. And that's all I can do. I mean, aside from but it's not like I can do, but you know, I saw something in the various news newsletters that I get yesterday. It's interesting. I said, do you want to participate in a phone bag to talk to the people in some southern state? Let's talk to them. And all you got to do is, you know, sign up and we'll automatically connect you. And it'll be, you know, sort of an automated phone call. And you can just share your thoughts with them. And this is, you know, this I think may be coming this sort of thing to have collective thought among various regions where I don't limit myself to the woman on the street corner at seven o'clock in the morning who basically agrees. But the people who don't agree is that the people that Winston talks with in the south, you know, that'd be different. Anyway, okay, we're almost, we are out of time for sure. Tim, give us some profundity, would you? I want my two hours like Winston. No. Hey, I know. Okay, real quick. Reclaim in my time. Reclaim in my time. Okay. Thank you, Winston. You may not use the word canesta. Yeah, no. Okay, sit down with Joe Manson. Work out something that calls filibuster reform. Don't, you know, in life it's not yes or no, black and white. You know, there's gray area. That's what the art of compromise is. Sit down with Joe Manson. Work out how filibuster can be reformed and pass it. And let's get this government moving. I don't care what government, GOP or Democrat. Let's get this government moving in the right direction that serves all the American people. Thank you. Thank you, Tim. Tim Appichella, Stephanie Stahl, Dalton, Winston Welch. Thank you so much. You guys are great. Aloha until next time.