 Well, good morning and good afternoon to those watching online and welcome Welcome to this event entitled Libya General Elections 2021 discussion series with Libyan leaders This event is in both English and Arabic on the event page Please choose the player which works best for you And this is being live streamed and recorded. I Am Michael Yaffe. I'm the vice president for the Middle East North Africa Center here at the United States Institute of Peace And for those of you who have been here to US IP before welcome back And for those of you who are new to US IP welcome and permit me to say just a few brief words about the Institute US IP was created by an act of Congress in 1984 to serve as an independent non-partisan institution dedicated to peace building Particularly with the prevention the mitigation and resolution of violent conflict We conduct research convening and working conflict zones around the world with a field presence of 16 in 16 countries and US IP has been working in Libya since 2012 Where we conduct research for informing policymakers and practitioners about conflict related issues and help build a local peace infrastructure By strengthening the capacity of key stakeholders like women and youth and institutions like the Ministry of Justice US IP recently began a project with funding from the US State Department to increase election security By working with the Ministry of Interior to strengthen the police's ability to partner and problem solve with local communities In light of the upcoming election set to begin next month Today's event is a timely conversation with Fidel Lameen founder and lead member of the Afaa Awata political party This event is the second in a series of moderated discussions US IP is hosting to provide a neutral platform for Libyans seeking to play a critical role Including high office in a future permanent government These are not just any elections They will provide Libyans with an opportunity to have their say in the representation Including the first elected president of Libya And elections of course are just the beginning of the journey to set Libyan a path to deal with real issues of governance and sovereignty issues like The presence of mercenaries in the country farm meddling Institutional disunity minority inclusion transitional justice and other and other questions that need to be decided by a representative government In the spirit of fostering dialogue the leaders we host will have several minutes to give opening remarks After which I will ask them questions in order to explicate their positions and their views. I Will try to ask the same questions of all speakers in this discussion series So people here can hear and compare their unique responses After I finish asking questions, I will then turn to the audience members for their questions To the audience here it in person at US IP headquarters welcome And I encourage you to please raise your hands to pose questions to mr. Lumine when we get to that portion of the program To those watching online You can send questions through Twitter at hashtag Libya elections US IP We will try to get to as many questions as possible Now I am pleased to introduce mr. Fada Lameen Mr. Lameen is the founder and lead member of the Faka Walton This is a new political party with an agenda aimed at building the Libyan Democratic straight state Through empowerment of youth and women as a critical element of peace built as a peaceful and prosper prosperous Libya It is he is the former director general of the national election and social development board Which is an official institution of the Libyan prime minister prime ministry? He now serves as senior technical advisor to the board He was also a coordinator of the independent group of the UN led Oshkarat Libyan political dialogue and the any architects of the Libyan political agreement that currently that the current government of Libya Trans that have for life with the transition under UN Security Council resolutions Mr. Lumine led a diverse Libyan team to develop the groundbreaking project Libya peace and prosperity a 15-year integrated economic plan to develop the country He chairs the national dialogue preparatory commission in Libya to foster inter Libya dialogue He worked as a member of the team assigned by the prime minister to review and implement government economic policy And previously mr. Lumine mr. Lumine worked in Washington DC in various capacities Including as a non-resident fellow of the Atlantic Council Sharing his expertise on democratic transitions countering violent extremism and regional economic integration And with that, let me turn the floor over to mr. Lumine, and we look forward to your opening remarks. Thank you Thank you very much Much appreciated. Thank you to the US IP. Thank you for the invite and for Making this platform available for us to to interact Regarding Libya and also to Highlight how important the situation in Libya is not just to Libyans, but also to the To the international community, I think we are looking at Libya right now from a very different Perspective, it's not Libya the oil rich country, which is not that rich anyway as many people think it is but Libya is very important from the geopolitical point of view to the region and to the Globally as we see shifts in the international Global world order as we may call it so Libya is a very important piece of this this puzzle that We have to make sure that it's stable secure and prosperous in order to help its own people our people and also to To be able to be a center for stability for the for the region and at the global level so I do thank you for Making this form available. I think it's it's a great opportunity for for us To think across border lines about what we share and the concerns Elections as everybody talks about elections elections are usually tools means to to Not to change government but to enable people to participate publicly and and the Affairs of their own country and decide their leaders, but sometimes they become a transitional goal in themselves once you tried so many Difficult ways in order to bring Legitimacy and stability But you fail Then you have to to Make the transition Not through dialogue, but only but to to to move forward to give the general public inability to to determine Their destiny and the way forward and I think in normal circumstances elections and and transitions they don't Usually jive well because elections usually there is a winner and a loser and post-conflict has you know, you want to try to find Some kind of a common ground But sometimes as an in the case of Libya since 2011 we have seen that we have went through processes of the First TNC the transitional council when it appoints two Prime Ministers executive bodies in 2011 and 2012 early late 2011 early 2012 then that led to an election that election provided Registrative body a hyper body and and and and more for Executive in a sense it has mixed powers also that also resulted in in some kind of of a government that came out of of that That body there and GNC at that time and that GNC You know provided the two prior to Prime Ministers one in 2012 one in 2013 the end of 2013 early 2014 when the first Prime Minister After the election was was sacked that led to a war Then the international community came and and and we engaged in in the ashrat agreement to stop the the conflict the civil war and The UN process appointed through dialogue Prime Minister of Mr. Saraj came to be The the dialogue was supposed to create a government of National Accord But once the Libyan sign that agreement They end up not abiding by it so the agreement and fail in implementation That failure led to continuous division so became a government, but it's not of a national accord It's not of a national sort of accord the division would to kind of to government continue to be What I'm trying to say why are we here for election? That after a while the conflict continue led to several scrumptious here and there led to the 2019 invasion of of Tripoli With the presence of of foreign troops mercenaries the conflict got worst from Libyan Libyan Conflict to an international Nationalized conflict with the Russians the mercenary the Turks the mercenaries from different countries That was devastating conflict That also led nowhere but Devastation and loss of lives the United Nation also stepped in to create a Process that's called the Geneva process this Geneva process was supposed to develop a road map it Developed the road map part of the road map to come with a government of national unity One of its tasks to to To lead to an election To create the needed legitimacy as all the bodies in Libya that are right now in conflict none of them has any kind of Real legitimacy they're all expired body in terms of the one that were elected at one time or another others they created their own presence through sheer force or or via other Influential processes within the region be it regional or tribal The conflict the armed conflict stops G&G and you was developed it is struggling to become Government of national unity so that national didn't work the unity did not work and And that speaks to the importance of the road map that we have right now, which is a Process that's supposed to lead to a national election this case. It was important for us to have a government that is Elected by the Libyan people That's the only option that was left after all options national options UN processes options all of these things fail in many ways There was a lot of international interference as well regional international interference that also had its its impact and casted its shadows on the Libyan situation In this case In my view what we have I've been for a while Advocating is what I called a reset. We need a total reset of the scene. There are so many bodies are sitting there None wants to leave Except the other leave at the same time so either they all leave or they all stay so it's all or nothing and Who would be the best judge to decide on this except the Libyan people? I think we have tried in the last ten years so many different ways of finding a way out of this conflict finding You know a light at the end of the tunnel processes by Libyan themselves processes by Libyan institutions and and also processes through the United Nations Mediation unfortunately Those processes did not succeed I think The only processes we have not tried yet is to have the Libyan people Decide directly one man one vote And one woman one vote one person one vote one citizen one vote for them to decide their own future We should not be fearful of of the Libyan choice We should not undermine it. We should give it a chance because I think it will create the need legitimacy That will carry us The election is not a is not a goal in itself at the end of the day. We still need to evolve and and go through that transition in order to have a constitution in order to have a Reconciliation and all the process build the state, but election is is is a very important stop you know for For us to create the legitimacy that is needed In order for the Libyans to recognize And decide what their leaders are about at the same time for the international community To to understand that there is an elected legitimate Libyan leadership that they can deal with and That will lead eventually with the power that was installed To this elected Executive body and is this later body for them to call for the secession of the international intervention at the same time for for the mercenaries and other Forces to to leave leave the country and to create the needed process to move forward Libyans We've been suffering through Three difficult things number one There is a continuous a state of fear among the stakeholders in Libya That fear have generated some some of this fear is is genuine some fear this fear is Imaginary, but nonetheless it's a there is an atmosphere of fear who will take what who will do what to the other Who will take revenge who will try to cast away the other? forces the lack of of of Comfort the other thing is is is a lack of confidence. There is no confidence Among the Libyan that fear will lead to the absence of confidence and we have to work on that I remember the as Khirat agreement and the In the preamble of the agreement Measures of building cover confidence measures where stated very well, unfortunately or never implemented The third thing is lack of the common platform Since these two are the the driving forces In in the interaction in Libya it created It never gave the opportunity for the For the stakeholders to think about what it what's what's common. What do they have in common? so building in Bridges and and and common ground that will lead to To think in that sense those who are fearful or opposing to election Because of of the fear of the future they would love to have the status quo as long as possible Because they fear a feel that they have some presence some influence as long as change come They don't have any guarantees. They don't see themselves in the future as they should because of the two First thing fear and lack of confidence that led to lack of common Platform that can lead them together to the future that's feeling of exclusionary feeling that continues to to evolve that also led to each party which stakeholder is Seeking help and support from an international Or foreign forces or entities and became clientile processes where Where everybody is somehow hooked to regional or international Interest at the same time and that complicated the situation Libya is is is is very important and I think Even the international players all over The world I think Libya is essential Geographical location the Mediterranean issues being in North Africa being part of the Middle East somehow being the gateway to Africa these are very important elements and And the international You know the countries that are Engaged in Libya, I will love them to have an economic competition rather than Having Libya as as a battleground I think we will be welcoming them You know bringing their investment bringing their expertise partnering with the with the Libyan people Libya can Include all these opportunities so I Would I would call for those who are afraid of the election not to be fearful of the will of the Libyan people I think We should have that kind of trust or respect that they will make the right decision But at the same time you want to make sure that everybody gets a chance to be engaged in this process I'm totally against preconditions that will exclude People from the process we need as much Wider ownership of the election process We need to get everybody get a fair chance at a shot at this process and let the Libyan people through election be the judge Preconditions will lead to narrowing the the field and deciding on the behalf of the people who should be and who should not and this is somehow It's undermining the rights of the European people to decide who they want Let's have a process. Let's have a clean process as much as possible It's not going to be the the the best and the cleanest the ideal, but You know we should not let Perfect be the enemy of the of the good. Thank you Great, thank you for those very rich opening remarks. It's a lot to build on and number of questions come to my mind right away, but But let's talk. Let's stick with elections for the moment and Since you raised some several Issues there including that there are some who are fearful of elections have a stake in The current status quo But so what is your overall assessment whether or not elections will actually happen on time scheduled for next month? for the presidential elections and then Parliamentary elections to happen soon thereafter. So how do you see it? Do you think it's definitely going to happen? I? Think it's we are beyond the point of if it's going to happen or not the question is how in terms of timeline In terms of the processes themselves People who oppose the elections spend so much time and effort some of them are a genuine concern some of them are hyped Execuses Mainly I Would love to have seen those who have serious concerns Address these concerns have a conversation and try to mitigate these concerns and fears instead of Making them as Big as possible hype them to the level to the point then come to the to the point You said therefore there should be no election. This is not the way things work. We We we have problems. We solve problems. We have concerns. We deal with concerns We have issues we work through our issues And I think that's the way it should be and I think the sooner they realize that is The only thing that can unite the Libyan people or any people in the is when they look To the future not look to the their current divisions the future can unite people you cannot change the past You can work through the present to develop a better future. So it will happen We have to work through the process the United Nations Should have been more engaged in Libya in terms of the mission in Libya in mediating Mitigating this these issues and difficulty and they have done some and I think they could have done more but also it falls into the shoulders of the of the Libyan people to to work with themselves and being positive in in in working through the process at the end of the day we want to save a country that is Continuing to to suffer greatly for the last 10 years Great, thanks. So my understanding is that the registration process for the election is still being finalized But that said let me be forthright and ask you if it does become finalized Are you will you be running for president of the country? Will you want to be the first elected president of Libya? well, I'm To me The goal is is not who should be empowered the goal is to make sure that ultimately We get where we need to be So getting the Libyans to cast their votes to to make choices to have as many choices as as possible Not to narrow their their field to the point that becomes To create apathy toward election and I think that we can do that very easily because this guy's not this guy's this No, no this notice. So who do you want? Oh? Choose me. It doesn't work though or soon nobody lets us stay. I mean I I heard one gentleman at one time said the best System for Libya is a fragmented system. I don't know what is fragmented system means if you need to state Or you don't need a state fragmented system where everybody have a little bit of influence and power Fragmently and there is no state. It doesn't work this way I'm I'm thinking about it. I'm looking at it as this possibility and I think It's not to Get to power and what are you gonna do with it once you get there? And I think there are a lot of things that we we need to to consider The first day in office Would you just say hey what are we gonna do next or do you have a plan? There are too many things. We have to work on the reconciliation process. We have to put the house in order We have to look at the economic situation. We have to look at the dire economic Status in Libya, it's not as as good as so many people think we have to think about these mercenaries We have to think about our relations with so these too many countries and You know sort these things out We have to bring the basic services that make the stable economic Social we have to think about the education that is collapsing We have to think about health care and health system is is undermined The basic services also It's not about just pumping money into people's hands I think it's because that can raise inflation and devalue the Libyan currency so Anybody who can tackle and think and has a good team that tackle should be should consider it I'm still considering and Somebody can do it better than me. I'll vote for them Well, let's let's screw down this line though. Let's say that you do run and you do become elected You would be the first president of elected president of Libya which carries a lot of Importance to that a lot of significance Could you just give us some sense of your kind of philosophy of leadership? And and vision that comes with that. How would you lead? I? Think anybody who would takes over and in this kind of circumstances They have to they have to have a deep understanding of the of the status of of the Libyan situation Not just the economic side and not just the political fragmentation not just the the the presence of so many forum forces in Libya Libya has became a point of place of conflict They have to understand the the the level of Importance and complexity of the geopolitical place in Libya. You have six neighbors You try to calm three three others will be unhappy you get to five the six one will be by the time we get to the six year the the the first one will be having issues So it's not easy and and the the goal is to build a state Not not a regime not a system only building a state means Inspiring the people creating citizenship Providing the basic services making sure that people have have the level of of of You know Good living which is they have to have a good economic system good Health system good educational system good services. So they become at least Capable of participating in a at a higher level if you think of your basic needs all the time Which is how that's how Libya was for the last 50 years I think people become very apathetic into a process and they became dependent And then you need a smaller state Government you don't need a big government you have to empower younger people and women and and and to to Become pioneers in and not in the work of government, but to in the old Ernie areas of life economic development They have to have the chances there to to build their own careers The government should be a supporting factor not an employer having almost Over two billion million people working for the government to Libya is is is crazy And and people do that because they don't have an opportunity to work anywhere else and government unfortunately all these government they create Companies so government owned companies and institution their their own so that instead of Providing the assistance for the private citizens So the conglomerates to work on on their own and develop the economic side by themselves so Government owned companies. It's it's ridiculous in me because to me. I think in a sense that What you do is is you create that continuous state of dependency on the state so and that will make it difficult for the citizens to to to be able to have an oversight or The government to be accountable to the state what makes people accountable and the government accounting to the people is when people pay taxes and And the government becomes an employee of the Libyan people not the other way around So that kind of dynamics need to change We have to create a common A sense of purpose common platform We have to evolve slowly, but maturely as a Libyan people Everybody should be involved. We have to carry everybody Carrying few and living the others the others will make sure that you are not going to go anywhere So it's it's a monumental task honestly and it has to be done by Bringing people together you have to have them. You might disagree with them, but you have to have them at the table Exclusionary processes will never work If I could continue along this theme you talk about Fragmentation as a concern and unity a process you just talked about I was wondering if you could talk about this issue of How do you how do you do you as a leader bring unity what are the symbols that you would want to Bring forth to to create this greater unity. How would you deal with Tribes which have been felt marginalized Particularly in the south how do you bring unity from east and west? How do you also deal with the issue of a government which has tended to be centralized and triply and yet allow for power to be Decentralized into the into provinces so a lot of different balancing acts and so this issue of how basically do you? Unify the Libyan people Well, I you know what I I always think of Libya when when you see it from the outside and You you have We have a doctor here. We have so many superficial wounds They are not deep, but there are many so they bleed the body is bleeding all over the place But these this bleeding is not is not it's not very deep But when somebody has you know keeps scratching himself or herself Harshly I think You have to treat that There are so many issues, but at the same time those issues are not very deep rooted issues I am from half from the east half from the west. I was born in Benghazi I live in Tripoli my father from the west my mom from the east to me. There's no east and west, you know Others who don't understand that when when there is there may be some regional, you know difference in terms of traditions and cultures and The way that people think about things and that's enriching that shouldn't be something that we have to dwell on in a negative way I think The failure in creating a Libyan identity for the last 50 years I think that was something that it has to be addressed What unites Libya? They are Libyans and and and that sense for a long time we have we had a regime not a state in a sense that The regime is identified with with the people with with individuals Libyan system evolved from Federalized system under the king to Central system afterwards to the system that I don't know how to prescribe it, but a regime controls the state the absence of this created so much fragmentation and Bringing those people together you have to you have to unite them about a citizenship to a state to a country that they they They belong to and they They want to build and they see a future for themselves and their kids and their grandkids We want to stay well at unified Libya for the next for the next Hundreds of years not for every five fifty years or hundred years. We have to you know Rebuild again or Find ways to deconstruct and and rebuild each time that's not how you build countries that That's not how we build society So there are many things what should be the the system That people should Enjoy living with That we should we should consider it. We should consider the federal system. There is nothing wrong with the federal system probably a federal system in Libya will not be a three typical Regions as historical as they used to be because each region has its own Configuration within itself the triple Italian region it has a four or five region though The eastern region has at least four regions within itself The south the same unfortunately the south has been neglected Continuously for a long time most of the people in the south moved to Tripoli now Tripoli is a city The capital should host no more than a million million and a half now. It has almost three million people Because lack of service left good security in the in the south The south is is is is a very very important region We have to stabilize The presence of Libyans of citizens in the south we have to provide opportunity Because that's how you you you create there are so many opportunity that you can we can develop in the southern part of Libya There has to be an investment there has always been Promises of investment of billion of dinars and and so on but never Developed never came to fruition Promises don't solve problems actions do and I think Libya needs needs needs more people and and and and it has to accommodate Working people from other countries. We have to think about how this can be brought Needs and need help in that sense and and this has to be done through a Legal system and and a system that will provide us the opportunity to to take the best brains and take the best possible Help that we can get We have to make sure that we have Clear arrangement and agreement for our security with the neighbors, especially in the south the threat of of terrorism the threat of illegal immigration in terms of Human trafficking is is is very big issue. It's a it's a shameful Thing that we have in Libya right now and it should be addressed very seriously You you touched on a number of points and questions in answering questions That I wanted to ask but I'm very keen in making sure we're keeping with time here But let me just finish with this issue of unity and you raise this issue of the past and the history Libya And so it raises the question of transitional justice This notion of how do you deal with what has occurred in the past without Relitigating it and there are those that basically say there should be a general amnesty For those who committed human right violations And then there are those who say no there should be some type of process where victims can Address their abusers. How do you view this issue of dealing with the past and transitional justice? Well, I think it's very it's very important. It's very it's very delicate at the same time I think you are between one to that administer justice as much as as you can and and also in terms of building a state the state cannot be built via revenge and Vengeance no matter what happened. I've been you know, I opposed Gaddafi for four years and years and I Wasn't happy at all. I deplored the way he was he His life was ended and and I think we have to Be cognizant if we are calling for a better Behavior we should be the first to to apply that There is a difference between Addressing issues related to transitional justice And at the same time being very cognizant of the importance at the end of the day of the greater goal of building a state That's why Tools like the isolation law that was Implemented in 2012 that was a very bad idea and I think we've seen the impact of that in Syria and in Iraq The you have to balance between making sure that what happened never happened again and Making sure that you don't become subject You don't become Hostage to the to to these processes that will blind you to the point that you don't see what you're trying to To to build in the future because otherwise you become so entrenched and so much in the chains of of The moment of the present or the past which is worse even than the present Balancing these things are very important the responsibility of statesmen is to build the state Responsibility of the institutions is to provide justice to the individuals at the same time You know there are ways of reconciliation that should be should be used and We are not going to reinvent the wheel at the same time if individuals feel that they can address their concerns and their Their grievances three through the legal system They should have the right to do so Number one for for those who Have committed these acts they have to understand that they are They are responsible but at the same time More important at the level of the state level and the future level is is to make sure that Whoever thinks about something like this in the future. They will understand that will be consequences for those It's a preventative measure that we have to think about We encourage people to to forgive and forget for the benefit of their Of their children and grandchildren because as I said vindictiveness is not going to help anybody We encourage the state at the same time to provide some measure that mitigates some of the of these issues So they can be funds for that for for this kind of Of things but at the same time We have to have a legal system that is functioning that can look at these things and provide we don't have it so we we cannot put the The the current Carriage in front of the horse as I say we have to make sure that the We have our of priority set in an order which is to build a state to have a legal system to have a System that can provide justice at the same time So people sometimes they have to be a little bit patient. It's nothing is instantaneous as we think Who sits the priority? What should be now justice or now? Reconciliation these are very important questions now building a state or now just carrying a war so whoever is going to win first These are the sitting this kind of tones and priority is the one of the responsibility of The leadership and and you have to convince people of that Being mindful of the time here I have a whole bunch of other questions, but I want to open the question to the people in the audience first I'll take one question from the people here, and then I'll Kind of ask a question from people who have asked questions online So please Thank you very much. Mr. Lameen for your excellent insights and thanks for US IP a quick question While we all agree that the elections is the best thing coming up in Libya To get Libya moving forward I am quite concerned about the imperfections or the challenges that are ahead And I wanted to get your perspective on how are we going to manage some of those at least in a broader picture? We are dealing with a constitutional basis that has yet to be Finally defined it does impact, you know, how the system of governors may be especially that we're conducting both a presidential and a parliamentarian election Do we have some framework that we think is going to be able to deliver that? We have the concern of the threat and security of participation and ensuring that these are transparent elections Do we have a good sense of Are we going to be able to manage that especially in light of the fact that this is only a few weeks ago from now? and then generally we we we have potential Breakouts from an imperfect election. So even though we want to make it happen We don't want it to become the recipe for potential division or potential war in the future. How do we grapple with all these? Thank you Thank you. Um, I think it's a These are the questions. These are the issues that we should have a conversation about Instead of targeting the whole idea of election and make sure that will never happen because if you kill the idea You don't have to deal with the with the difficulties that That comes with it. So people usually they go for the easy thing kill the damn thing so get rid of it and and because we do have we don't so we can go home and and and and Watch TV or play cards Of course, that's not the case these are issues these are serious issues and and as far as the The constitutional base, I think there are constitutional base I disagree with people who keep talking about it not defining it. What is the constitutional base? It's an election law. We have elections before so we are not starting from scratch. This is This election law that we have in 2012. We have to amend it a little bit in 2014 Can it carry us it carried us out in a couple of times and get us some result for all these people who? Institution that they believe that they are legitimate and they continue to cling to legitimacy after they expired Well, we can we can we can use this and we amend it there was there has been a pathway By the HR and the state council to come together and do that they have been coming together and failing to do that I questioned their sincerity most of the time and getting serious about Going away being resetted That's a it is there is a conflict of interest inherited in this process So I think we do have enough to start with The election the election law that was passed by the HR It's it's a good start. I'm not saying it's perfect probably they need to vote in it to make sure that it's it's voted on and and Made sure that it it will be you know protected from many Litigation legal litigation as many as possible. It doesn't mean that there will no be be no legal litigations It should be and and it's okay. It should be addressed at that level It's not going to be a perfect election. I have never seen a perfect election. I think people in the United States that have seen election and Bush versus Al Gore before we've seen the one recently Of course, there is that we have a there is an election in in in Iraq. That's not a perfect election There are militias there. There are so many I have to shabi and others. I mean they came from war There is Iran. There is all these guys, but there was an election election is it's it brings you closer It sets you one step further into a process of stabilization. So we have to see it this way It's not the the ultimate goal. Whoever sits in will will never let's make sure people who complain about there is no Constitution in Libya. We have seen a Constitution that is Molded by in such a way probably will be trapped so much in Tunisia. We've seen the civil you know Servant who became president To cover the whole process and suspended the Constitution so there is no Full guarantee of anything. I think We have to work through the difficulty. We have to have conversation negotiation Dialogue name it what do you want to name it? But we have to bring all the people as I said who have concerns to discuss this concerns to have them Invest in this process to see that they can be part of the future of this process To to make sure that they feel they will not be targeted by the outcome of this process. These are things that are not going to be Guaranteed via constitutional process or Or just a law. I think these are human interactions. They have to take a place. I Think we have enough To do difficulties. Yes impossible. No, we have to also to think about what what if election doesn't happen I think I can guarantee you division war and all the other element of a bad agent bad outcome. So sometimes you take the That whatever is least it has the least worst consequences if I can say that thank you So I want to turn to some the to an online question that we received we received a number of questions just for your Knowledge and to acknowledge that about the election itself the questions range from what happens if someone doesn't accept the outcome of the election You know to what happens if Saif Gaddafi wins the election if Haftar wins the election Well, you know asking all sorts of questions about what how do you see the consequences of all that? But I'm gonna I think you answered some of these questions just now But so I want to turn to another set of questions. We got which concerns more foreign affairs And these range from the questions of how do you expedite the withdrawal of foreign fighters? What is the plan to address? Russians expanding presence in Libya And Russia look role as a kingmaker You know how does foreign mercenaries Complicate the peace process in Libya. What are the plans again for the removal? What is needed from the United States to support Libya stabilization and strengthening? Libya what can be what can the Europeans do? What can Libby's immediate neighbors do so there's a bunch of questions here really about foreign affairs? So if you could try to address all those And one swoop that'd be great. Thank you sure Thanks. I think Let's start with the With who can have the credibility to call For the withdrawal of these mercenaries and foreign troops in Libya, of course There is a mix of troops and and mercenary Libya. I believe and I think Only a legitimate Directly elected the president can do that has the legitimacy Because he has the voice of the Libyan people Everybody else we've seen right now as as the different stakeholders Everybody each one has a stake in one side or another one side has a close relationship with the With the Russians and and and the other mercenary the others had has a close relationship with the Turks and the other side Russia claims that she they came in via the HR's Mandate The the Turks come came through the GNU G&A Request so each one has a claim and we cannot We can argue this forever and and it will not work And everybody wants to stay in the absence of breakthrough I think the status quo will continue and to to to continue to get worse not better And in that sense elections very very important and to in order to address the whole issue of forum presence in Libya And I think it has a voice it will be a process. It's not going to be overnight There would have to be a negotiation. Of course those forces are not going to withdraw because you asked him to withdraw You have to provide a lot of I don't want to call it in sentence, but things to that extent the carrot and the stick at the same time Probably Libyan people If things get worse, I think probably will will will defend their own homeland if they need to There is no doubt about it, but We don't want it to get to that point. I think there will be a lot of Ways and opportunities for the for the elected leadership to to negotiate and and and do have Offer we need we need cooperation from all sides Libya can offer an opportunity to to all sides to to participate and become a partner instead of An adversary in terms of the internationals I think I I like and I appreciate the fact that the United Nations United States has been consistent In its message regarding the election, I think they have seen the the the the outcome of the processes in the last ten years or so and The issue of Libyan stability is is is very very very important Not just to Libya, but to the region. We've seen the impact when Libya got into engulfed into a conflict and and chaos arms From Libya Reached so many different countries. You cannot imagine, you know in years And and very far away in the last few years So the consistent message is a stable Libya And we have to give the people a chance to to decide for their own leadership And we need an elected leader that can You know Lead the country and lead the process towards stability somebody that the world can't deal with Who has the the voice of the of the Libyan people and it's I think it's very important for the other countries? I think there are interests in Libya Libya is a neighbor Libya is an influencer Libya is influenced These should be should not fear from an elected process Dealing with a legitimate elected leader. It's much better than the dealing with a bunch of of self-interested groups who are somehow hooked to Other foreign actors in one way or another they sometimes they talk on their own behalf sometimes talking on behalf of somebody else This fragmentation is not effective and it doesn't It's not helpful for the neighbors. It's not helpful for our for for Africa. It's not helpful for the Mediterranean as we see Opportunity I think we can we can do better with with partnership instead of conflicting interests in Libya Great, well, thank you That hour went by really quickly I have to admit and we didn't get a chance to come to all the questions I would have liked to ask and I'm sure from our members of our audience as well I hope that you can talk with them as we come to the end of this program And I'm sure there are more questions from people who are watching and sending them online But we are at the end of this hour and I want to thank you so much for this Opportunity to hear your views You were very comprehensive in addressing a whole bunch of issues as well So you answered I think a lot of questions along the way too. So on behalf of USIP again, thank you so much And thank you to Robert Barron to Nate Wilson to Ezra who helped put this together to our interpreter Nabil These are all very useful and I have mentioned this is a series of discussions that we're having with Libyan leaders, so I hope people will tune in for the next time we may come together with another leader and again Thank you. We wish you all the best Appreciate it and I enjoyed it and thanks for for your For hosting it and and thanks for the audience who came and participated and for all those who address the questions I'm sorry if I didn't get the chance to address the other question. I hope my answers to To some questions dealt with some of their concerns. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you