 Hello and welcome to the drum history podcast. I'm your host Bart van der Zee and today I am honored to have my old friend Mr. Rob Hart back on Rob welcome to the podcast. Hey Bart. Thanks for having me Yeah, Rob. So this is super cool today. We are doing kind of the start of what we'll call a mini series You have had many great experiences with tons of cool teachers over the years and I want to say first that your first time on the podcast was Episode 104 in 2021 you did Tony Williams clinic breakdown where we played a lot of clips I know people loved that one. It was really cool We're doing that style again where you recorded a lot of clips with your teachers. We have clips on this episode We're talking Steve Smith, but we also have Mike Clark, Robbie Gonzalez, Scott Morris But as I just said today, we're talking particularly about Your time with mr. Steve Smith. So I think this is going to be super cool Rob, what happened? How did you get involved with Steve Smith? All that good stuff? I was fortunate to have Lessons with some really Incredible musicians through my life I was really really fortunate to study with Steve from 1985 to about 2000 I saw him go through all these different phases in his life. He had been working with journey A journey was on a hiatus He had there has been this thing where he was asked to leave then they rehired him and you know, there's all this stuff going on but um, he had a studio at his house he lived in in marin and He had built the studio in 1984 the year I graduated from Berkeley College of Music And I met him in 1985 Uh, he invited me. I saw him at a Tony Williams Show in San Francisco He invited me to take lessons. I said, do you teach? He said no I I was taking with Gary Chaffee and and Berkeley and boston and and We kind of had some of the same interests and he says, well, why don't you come over? Here's my address um, so What had happened is um, you know that big journey set set up And he sat down and played for me um Now he had done there was a zildjende in boston at the Berkeley performance center and so um That was around the time. So that was eight 1984 and then I graduated 85. So he Um, you know was in that kind of journey mode. He played differently He's gone through all the evolutions of playing differently, you know He's gotten better and better and better always improving. But this was that time Uh, probably about 19 I'd say 1987 or something like that. So this one's called Applied soloing and he had electronics which were called the dyna cord Which were like these kind of uh, would you say like triangular pads? And he would set up a A clap or a cowbell or different things. Uh, we were getting you had your last episode about electronics um, Dave Weckel had the uh Triggering electronics. I think he was triggering Simmons drums at the time. That was a big thing Shipped around the electric band So he was experimenting with electronics and triggering as was really popular in the 80s So there's a little bit of that in here. Um, there is a click. That's a four bar phrase Which is in half notes and then the last half note of the fourth bar is silent That's always the click time practicing tool So, um, this is applied soloing track number one Okay, let's check it out Very cool. All right, Rob. So talk to us a little bit about that. I mean his his Mastery of the click of you know, it's like you can hear it and goes he on is he off and then bam He's right back on he's just working around it and playing with it and I love the use of the electronics Tell us about that a little bit So we would do lessons and I want to say that, you know, his studio Was um, it wasn't big it was small but very beautiful, you know, and he had a little sliding glass door with the with the control room MCI board And and Two inch tape So we had the big washing machine two inch tape deck And um, so he would close the door, you know, and it would be the the Um, I guess double door control room and then the the live room um In the live room, he had You know various sets. He set up you've had the double the double Uh, what would you say soundproof doors, you know, like closing the vault of the airlock kind of thing The airlock you and so it was all set I think the next in the hallway down from that was like the kids bedrooms, you know um, but it was totally soundproof and um He would just you know, like he had that big set and he had all the zilchins symbols and the sonar drums and uh I would just be blown away. He would just play And it would just be like jaw dropping He was very accurate. So when we would do the click stuff, he would demonstrate playing with a click and and um We would work on the counting so he would count out loud and play and um And what would happen is he would just say how he would keep on the click by doing those subdivisions And that's how we would practice like playing around the click But it was so on it was scary And if you ever play with a click where you're You're doing a fill and then when you come out of the fill It's kind of a little bit like your serenity's a little late And then you kind of get back on it's not like you're moving off of the click But you're a little you know, it's it's like you listen back and you hear a flam or you hear something a little behind Like he could be dead on And he would tell me stories of um I think the album was called fia fiaga and how they brought in Dave Weckel's buddy, um j oliver And they would actually produce um the Rhythm to the millisecond Like when they would they would record and he goes I I don't like to do that anymore, but he goes at the time. I wanted to see if I could do it So this is before really pro tools. This is before the the editing and everything and putting yourself to a grid I mean You're actually playing to tape You could punch in but If you were you know, if anything was sloppy or Uh anything like that. I mean you had to actually do a whole new take and and this is no It was a different world and the studio I worked at uh a couple years ago and through you know, college a intern They had it was a big mci board. There was the big washing machine two inch tape mci You know machine as well and I remember there was an outboard Piece of gear that was a metronome that was called a russian dragon Which I always thought was a cool name like rushing or dragging and it was the russian dragon Nothing was as easy as now or it goes add click track on change tempo. You're good So that adds another level of just like Uh complexity and let me just clarify with can you explain the recording of these of what we're hearing back? Okay, so that one was uh In his studio, it was a studio recording with his all his gear Put the tape in because we used to have cassette tape. That's that was our medium And so he would put the tape in the tape deck and he would record So he ran the two inch tape and then you know, either he'd make me a copy or he recorded on the fly Other recordings that you're gonna hear are my the sony walkman. I had that was in fact I was trying to look for the model number It this thing was it was just a workhorse, you know Press record put it down and then you're you're you're good Well, I hope we can probably tell the difference between a probably $50,000 mci board Well, both sony I think sony owned mci though the mci board and your sony walkman We'll probably tell a difference no offense to the walkman. Yeah This episode is brought to you by blue goose classic percussion Blue goose classic percussion has provided vintage drum restoration and sales online for over five years They are pleased to announce that they will be opening Atlanta drum shop a full service drum destination in Atlanta this summer Featuring new and used gear by all your favorite brands vintage drums are their original and strongest passion And they currently have hundreds of vintage sets in inventory Some but not all of the inventory is online So if you're looking for something in particular, it's best to get in touch directly They're opening to the public this summer 2023 join the mailing list to get updates at atlanta drum shop dot com Their social media is at Atlanta drum shop And if you love vintage drums and cymbals check out blue goose dot com. That's bl o o goose dot com And blue goose classic percussion on ebay. That's bl o o goose classic percussion So thank you to blue goose and Atlanta drum shop for sponsoring this episode Let's move on to the next one because i'm gonna it's gonna be my job to keep us on track and get as many of these in as possible So, uh, that one was awesome clearly a master Uh, let's do some more and just and then we'll go from there Okay, let's go to opening and closing the hi hats. All right. Here is steve smith This is about opening and closing the hi hats. Here we go When you were playing that you can check out that your hi hat Needs to be a little more like That can be part of the rhythm that should be part of the rhythm the actual Place they could close the hi hat So like be be aware of where where you close it Because it didn't sound like you were were you thinking about the actual What subdivision of the beat the hi hat closes on it was just opening and it was closing whatever, right? Okay, like it's really important to think about that because you can you know Cool, that was awesome. I this is again what I love about this is the hearing this lesson and uh, and I've I've heard these before But really to kind of do this in in in real time is awesome things. I wrote down That steve said and then you you should touch on this because it was you there what 35 36 years ago or whatever So he's obviously talking about close the hi hat make it a part of the rhythm Every piece of what you're doing is is a part of it As you listen to what you go. Yeah. Yeah, it seems obvious But when you're learning and you're in the lesson, it's like it's awesome And then I just wrote that an underlined that he said it just sounds cleaner It sounds clean And he's exactly right. It sounds clean and it sounds tight and every little nuances is perfect. So Tell us about that that day that moment. What was going through your mind and what did you you know? What was that like? Well, the reason why I picked that clip is because um That was a real life changing moment for me. Uh, I Struggled so much with the with the left foot in the hi hat opening and closing And uh, there was a lot of independence between the right foot and the left foot, right? So you would do something with your right foot And your left foot would suffer happen, you know, it was like kind of always my um, you know, uh weakness So he would just point out Closing the hi hat. I mean you're opening a high hat. You're trying to get that um A lot of times the articulation of your left foot and your your hi hat your right hand or left hand trying to make those Um coordinate and if they're a little bit late if you don't close a hi hat, right? It's sloppy if you don't open the hi hat in time. It's sloppy Right, especially when you get into 16th notes So he was You know a master his feet were incredible He always had this thing where he just everything he did so the feet were so clean and just being able to notice Not only where you're opening the hi hat, but where it closes and what part of the beat And that really like I said that just changed my life Just a being aware of all these little subtleties of where that's going And so if you play a 16th note with your bass drum, you know, that's independent of your left foot You're work really working on how those two Uh coordinate and then so you can get that clean close hi hat with your left foot and the right subdivision While being independent, uh a clean hi hat with your left foot being independent of your right foot Yeah, and uh, it's the difference between good and great really like it's it's day one You can learn whatever you want on drums and at that point you're a Berkeley grad I mean, you know what you're doing you sounded great playing it But to sit and hear someone like you it was very well established at that point compared to Steve Smith Who again who's famous mega drummer at that point? It's there's always that next level and everything he said. I like how he was like He kind of in a nice way. He kind of called you out a little bit There's a little bit of a teacher of just like you weren't paying attention. Were you it's like, you know You're doing right doesn't sound like you're doing it Yeah So anyway, that that was cool to hear that so all right, let's keep going to get as many as we can and so what do we have next? Uh This is going to be about playing time Okay, all right. Here we go. Steve Smith talking about playing time First step is learning learning the songs right any new gig if you're here, you know Concerned learning the arrangements and the songs and the right drum beats and stuff like that That's like step one. So once you get past step one Then what then I consider the next step is to Make sure that every song has real even tempo And really it's good feel So then that's like the next stage once you get past learning the songs anything like listen to the tape And and like really determine if your tempo is really steady And if the feel is really good, so then that gives you like The next thing to work on make sure that everything too Feels and is consistent Right and then the next level like once you feel really comfortable with that It's like then you can really start getting inside The beats and the fills to make sure that you're playing like hip stuff And and then if you could fit in anything like that could be ever more challenging to you But still work within context in the music And then like you can so really refine Like get really get inside each and every two To come up with hipper more interesting things to play and and then just make judgments on your execution Your touch on each instrument that you know, so you can just like keep getting more and more microscopic with everything Do so it's not boring. So you're not just playing These same songs over again. It's sort of stuck in On, you know, this is a boring gig It doesn't have to be you know, you can like whatever the gig is you can really get into it Get more and more microscopic with it That makes sense. Yeah, sometimes I I have an attitude if I just sometimes I think about it Sometimes I just want to get it over with Sure be burning and some but what happens is that I think is Even though a gig can be boring Well, it it it only is this boring is uh It's if you're not really boring gig, but yeah, but if you're not I just want to get it over with because I'm tired or something Right if you don't have the songs are challenging. Yeah, so if you keep the perspective of That it's playing it's time on on your drums. It's time playing music You can always use that to better yourself Better you playing Then what happens is you get the most out of the gig So then you can get to a point like there's I you know, whatever the gig is you can always play it better Right and and all gigs are pretty much open-ended because music itself is open-ended So there's how much you can get out of the thing some gigs are obviously more open-ended than others Like a jazz fusion thing has a much higher ceiling of where you can go than a pop gig but But you have like a lot more limitations to work with with the pop thing a lot more parameters that are like kind of restricting but You can still Apply those those theories to And then when If you do that and truly develop right then then there'll be a point where you are Where it's real logical for you to take another step to another move or something because you you're doing it so well it Should be so obvious that if somebody hears you from another situation It might be another level up that you can easily Say if that's what you know, if someone want to do move to another gig That's my Right, that's my approach that I use on the gigs that I do And if you would steps ahead, I mean that's a real open-ended gig But I go through that I first I learned the songs, you know Then I listen to the time and to the feel and then I get into the parts and then I make sure that everything I play is hip and then Then I like think about what can I do with this section? What can I do in this solo section? Or you know and when I'm off the road I'm listening to tapes and practicing so so the next time when I go back I'm fresh and I have new things that I can play Like that even though we're playing the same song so on So I keep working on stuff Now that's a much more open-ended gig But the same theory I think works. I did the same thing with Journey too And that was more you know straight. It's great ahead, but still I could fit it into context. I could Figure out ways of sneaking cool stuff in That was a cool one. That's like, uh, I mean he is a wise man I think we all know that but a lot of times you just see him play And you don't hear these like behind closed doors Conversations the things I wrote down were don't get stuck on a boring gig dot dot dot a little bit in between Get more and more microscopic That's incredible. And then it's time on your drums It's time playing and then he said something about we all just need we all need that Pretty huge again. What's what's your thoughts on all this? Well At the time I was doing Uh, what we used to call, you know, there was like in-house bands or Popular they used to call it top 40 but it was popular music at the time there was a lot of clubs and um, there's a lot of work you'd play Five nights six nights a week. They're four and a half hour gigs And you're playing the same songs over and over and over again, you know, you get burned out, but um What would happen is? You would try to come up with ways. I mean you're learning parts You're learning parts and you're you're you're memorizing the form and The dynamics and the tempos we used to have a click track. You play to a click a sequencer So How do you work on things? I was the only one in that band that actually practiced Because you know, there was a lot of stuff going on that were extracurricular In those days and I was a practical like I love practicing So I would try to figure out ways of getting better so You would take a situation where you could be in a deadlock and being Bored with the gig and and like oh man, I'm just doing the same thing over and over and over again And then take that and and like how can I make how can I make? How can I improve on it? What what can I do to to make things better? You know learning the song when you first learn a song it's fresh when you play it a million times Not so fresh, you know, you start to get burned out on it Well, you can add different parts. You can make things interesting. You'd say I I I'd listen to the gig and I'd go back and go well, I can improve this part. I can improve that part or You know, he taught me to tape everything and Robbie also taught me to do that So you tape the gig and then you you listen back after the gig and this is not during an event that would happen on the gig somebody gives you a dirty look or You know some some traumatic thing happens on the gig You know, you take the tape home and you listen to it later And then you're the judge of what happened now the time maybe the time was slowing down or speeding up You go back and listen to the tape. There's the proof, right? Maybe the fills you played weren't right or maybe Maybe you rushed the fill or You know, something happened in that process you could go back and listen And be the judge of what what happened on the gig so I started doing this all the time with everything and You know, it got me into learning my own arrangements in my own trio Learning what works what doesn't work, you know, oh, I thought I played really great You know on this gig and then you go home. There's like, oh, that wasn't so great Or oh, I thought I sucked on that gig. Wow. I that wasn't wow. That's pretty cool I didn't I didn't know that I I didn't know I played that, you know So it got into this thing of the musical microscope But taking something away from the gig Tony would say I'd listen to myself play all the time But Steve was like take it home record it and listen to it and then judge yourself He'd always say to me like you know what you like You know, what's good you be your own judge You can also drive yourself nuts doing that You don't want to focus too much on that But you also want to focus on it enough where you do care And you there's a there's like a happy medium where it's like exactly where you want to be But let's continue chugging along on the Steve Smith train here and What do you want to hear next? I'm loving this okay, so This is the next clip is Playing along with vinyl information tracks Now I just want to say before we start it is that I could have sworn This was on one of the albums and and I I actually did talk to Steve In the prep for the podcast And he was saying no it was a track they never used And I and I went back and I went to they released the early albums on on CD It's on it's on the streaming platforms too, but So I mean I tried to find it and it wasn't there But I could have sworn the mail. I remember that chorus And I haven't listened to these tapes and you know god it's been 40 years or 30 years or something like that. So So anyway, he would put the track on you know, and um, he had a apple one computer He had a it was a sequence platform called performer I think they called it digital performer after that Sure, um, he was sequencing was he was playing keyboards and piano He actually had a grand piano in the studio for a while And um, he'd go, okay, he would play with the track and then he'd go in the control room goes now. It's your turn So then I played with the track So this is him. He's in the control room. He's saying hey, can you hear it? You ready? Here we go. And it's you playing. It's me playing along with the right information that he tells me they never used Well, hey, it's a it's a drum history exclusive So rob heart on the vital information track that was never released. So let's check this one out I can't do it, but I'll try I mean, I'm not even or anything yet. See That sounds great cool track great playing. How old were you at this point? Uh, when you were taking those lessons probably about 35 34 35 Yeah, sounding very good. I mean, let me ask you real quick. So you and I might have misheard it But so you said when you were sitting down, you said, I'm not even yet Yeah, what explain what that means a little bit. Are you talking about even with your kind of getting set up on the kit or Even with your time even with your feel Got it, you know, interesting. So sitting down playing he Literally would put on these tracks That have a lot of parts. There's there's a part like I I faded it out before I went to I messed up But there was a you know, it goes into a break or something, you know, and Goes into another part. So it sounded really good. I would I would say something like, you know, I don't know the arrangement I'm not even yet. I'm I'm winging it, you know, and you go, well, that's what we're working on Yeah, so that's awesome though that you get to sit there and did you feel a lot of nerves? Did you it must have gotten easier over time playing in front of him? But were you nervous playing in front of Steve Smith? Probably at first I remember the very first lesson when I was studying with Gary Chaffee and I'd come back from Boston to the Bay Area and Uh, I was playing there was something called linear time feel and and so Gary had these books out that was He had poly rhythms and they had sticking So that was the books that Steve had worked out with him Because Steve and Vinny took lessons together with Gary Chaffee um in Boston and This linear time feel had come out later It had like fat back and like independence like you know, the whole thing with terry bozier with osmanado Like chaffee was doing that, you know in the 70s So, um, I sat down and I started demonstrating this linear stuff and he goes well, that's good But you're like you don't have to impress me by playing it so fast Sure, you could make sense play it slower. Yeah, you're like you're steve smith I'm gonna try and impress you That's human nature, but I'm sure that happens with any relationship or once you get to know people He really sounds like a good teacher like uh, like uh, it sounds like you had a very like, uh, I guess the word would be like immersive Type of lesson where let's gonna we're gonna play now. You're gonna be in this You're also getting studio experience, which is huge, right Yeah, he taught me about um, not only about uh being in the studio about Playing live, you know, I said about working on parts Um, yeah He would teach me about doing how to do a clinic You know, because I I started to do clinics and I I'd come in and I'd say Like I I don't know what to do and how do I how do I run a clinic and it goes Let's run it down and then I would bring my notes and he goes, okay I'm I'm the audience member Like what are you gonna do and he'd teach me how to do a clinic? Sure, that's huge. It was huge and even financial stuff like he his Uh accountant, he said, okay, here's the guy this this accountant does grateful dead and journey and um Jefferson starship and here I'm gonna give you this guy and and he's gonna help you my dad had passed away and And and I was going through this journey in life of what to do and he goes Yeah, here's how you're gonna here's a guy to talk to you for your investments And this is what I did and um, you know, this this guy is gonna do you right? I I trust this guy So he gave me, you know, not only was it musical Inspiration and mentorship. He also gave me, uh, you know life mentorship like what to do in in a situation of like I'm inheriting money. What do I do? How do I invest? Where do I go? Yeah So there was a lot of aspects, you know, when you develop this trust with a mentor that you can actually trust them with your life You know, like with like, hey, what do I do in the situation? A lot of people Would blow their money, you know, or or do something foolish, right? Yeah, maybe they got Into trouble. They were you know doing drugs all the time or you know, all these situations like Um, you have a mentor there to to really guide you through life, you know And and going through these situations where, um, you know, like you said, they had the wise knowledge of like, hey, man I've been there, you know, I've been through this This is this is how, you know, how I steered my my my life and I can help others Do the same Absolutely some special about a drum teacher. I used to teach kids Uh, primarily back when I was working as a drum teacher and that was I guess where I It would just happen. I was at sam ash and doing private lessons And it would always be younger kids and there was one I think I've told this on the podcast before so forgive me If people have heard it, but a kid said You know this better than anyone. I'm sure people like to just talk to you because again, it's you're there Why not? I want to share you're the cool guy drum teacher. I want to talk to you But a little kid said my dad told me to grow a pair. What does that mean? And I was like, oh jeez I'm sorry. He was like he was like six years old So it was sort of one of those deals where I was like and and they were from a different It was like a different culture from like a different country and I didn't know what was culturally acceptable and all that and I was just like I don't know ask your mom There's something I'm not going down that that road but You need to be there for kids and people and and it's nice to have a an ear to listen to and also someone to steer you in the right direction, but um Very cool. All right, Rob. So let's let's keep chugging forward here. We have a fair amount left, but um, what do you want to go to next? Uh, let's go to playing the 11 eighth figure and this is um, Steve was taking piano lessons um, and He would play piano and I would play drums and accompany him Uh, he was working. We would play standards working on, you know playing standards Um, I have a recording of him playing Stella by starlight and I'm accompanying him. Uh, this was something we started jamming, you know and uh Doing like an ecm kind of jam and then he came up with this figure Um, 11 eight figures and then he started saying, okay solo over this And then and then you kind of hear me where I'm kind of like, whoa I'm I'm you know, the rug has pulled out from under me. I'm trying to go get my bearings and he goes No, just just think of it as this And then as it goes on I start to get comfortable with it He's like, yeah, and then and then we we kind of start it's it starts getting better and better and uh That's that's the the clip That's awesome. All right, let's check it out. This one looking looks like it's a little bit of a longer one So we'll check it out. Remember steve smith is on piano. Rob hard is on drums 11 eight They're figuring it out. So here we go. Let's check it out What this like watch my foot, right? I didn't start hitting one in the middle. You know what I mean? I didn't go like it's like two Twice through is one once is one Don't turn it around play straight through it. Let's do like this Yeah, it's like playing 22 instead of very interesting. It's neat to hear Steve Smith playing the piano first off and what you played sounded great. You're definitely right where You as time went on you fell into it more and you got that that groove but One thing about steve is and like I said great playing by you but with steve is like even when you're figuring it out He didn't get off at all Like he didn't really stop or change. He's just chugging along and I think that's a big part of like Uh that next level expertise is like whatever you're doing is fine, but I'm not going to get off So Pretty cool. That that that good job playing there Yeah, I mean you you kind of As he went on you start to get used to the the figure And he just starts playing he goes well think of it like this So I don't know if you know when you're playing um An odd time like one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven one That's what he was talking about. Yes, sure it turned it it automatically comes back That was like the gnar to michael wall then thing on the jeff beck Lead boots, you know like he did down on the bridge the bridge is in seven Sure, and so that's the concept second time through you find yourself Just wait like do it twice and then it the way the math of it all kind of lines up correctly Exactly Yeah, and so you start to feel it and then you get comfortable and then you can solo over Uh, he would play stuff. He would have this stuff in like 516 You know really kind of hard to to to settle into that That was the track, you know, yeah, I don't think I got that one. I mean it's fun to You don't get to do that. You don't like go home and go Let me put on this crazy 516 track You need someone in this case of this series that we're doing here The a mentor to push you even if it's like wow that was too far Or I didn't I didn't get that at all It's like well when then when you rewind a little and go to something a little more in your comfort zone You're better at that because you just pushed out of your comfort zone, right? Exactly Yeah, boy, that was cool. Okay. Does steve still play piano? I'm sure I mean if that was such a long time ago I'm sure he's he's even more accomplished these days That's a good question. He's downsized, you know, so I don't know if he has a all that that gear he got rid of Yeah, oh, yeah, he told me you sold that piano to uh, frank and ballie. Oh, wow, okay Well, pianos are a big lot of space and uh, if you're playing a piano at a certain degree, uh, they're extremely expensive as well So I'm sure it's nice to get a little Payday off of that. So all right, let's what you know, let's try and squeeze in a few more here So, uh, where do you want to where do you want to go from here? Rob? metric modulation Okay, sounds good. Here we go steve smith metric modulation And getting out of like playing sevens and fives Very cool to hear that and You though as a student, it's cool. I mean your question there at the end there you kind of breaking it down You're really paying attention. You're really listening obviously, of course because you're sitting there But it's not the easiest thing to kind of keep up with the counting that he's going on when when just kind of Could just be freestyle grooving. Um, one thing I'll pull out that is that he said at the very beginning I don't want to do things that are so literal Can you explain that a little bit what he's talking about? I guess that um Maybe the thing that Everybody typically plays or you know, if he's doing a five or people play fives and they accent one so he would he would take a five note grouping a quintuplet and He would accent like every third note or a accent every fourth note And then he started making that a tempo And then I think at the end he went to six It's really hard to follow if you don't know what's going on A lot of the metric modulation stuff. It's the it appears that you've gone to another tempo or like you said like free form It's all it's all laid out. There is a mathematical equation everything he's doing But the ear doesn't hear it. So um as you practice that stuff Um, your ear if you're not paying attention your ear will go somewhere else and you'll get lost But if you pay attention, you're hearing what the actual original tempo is and you're hearing The new tempo against it which you modulate and then you can get back and forth That's a really hard thing to do is to take those note rates and then playing like every third note every fourth note and then making that a new tempo Um, it's really advanced stuff. And yes, you get lost really easily uh, but um, sure that that thing that he was doing He was playing every fourth, um five Um groups of four with the with the quintuplets and then he was playing a regular backbeat So you can kind of hear where the time is but he's accenting the uh, the every fourth five on his, uh, right hand with the bass drum I to me in like the simplest terms of all of that is just like it's a total breakdown of just like he's got complete freedom over everything brain hands feet to do whatever he wants and not get lost and It makes sense to it, which uh, I guess that's that's why we practice to achieve that that level of freedom, but um Pretty cool. All right rob. So Love that one. Um, why don't we do one more? It looks like we've got a nice long one To close things out that would be stevesmith trading fours Is that sound like a good one to close things out with is that both of you guys trading fours together? Yeah, so The thing that we used to do this is a this is really a drum lesson thing that um, and I did this both with my early teacher scott morris um, is we would trade fours or aids in the drum lessons. So um I this is something that I think we've we've gotten away from with online lessons because You're not in the room with somebody and and and you would never do something like this but this is a normal thing we would learn how to solo and phrase and um He's playing uh, the tune olio Um by sonny rollins. He's quoting the melody in the beginning and then we're into trading fours Um We're taking a jazz sensibility. So i'm playing off of him. He's playing off of me And so we're we're not only are we trading fours, but we're listening to each other And um, this was such a great thing to do because It would really elevate your playing. I was doing stuff. I never thought I could do You know, yeah, and he does not hold back either So um, so yeah, it you know this this playing elevation comes out of it um, so I think it's about like five minutes Okay, and um, you know, I just think it's a real beautiful track. The other thing I I think in the middle of it I lose it. I go, ah He just keeps going Yeah, yeah, well, uh, we'll start here, but I just think too of like what he said earlier on the uh third clip You played even when he's doing a lesson. It's time on your drums. It's time playing. He's like i'm trading fours He's practicing while doing the lesson with you Just make sense. You know what I mean? It's it's time for him to practice as well. So um, Here we go Like rob said, this will be about five minutes and then we'll come back and we'll hear more about what rob We'll hear about his, you know The his drum school and everything like that that he's got going on and uh his lessons and uh, we'll close out after that So here we go with uh stevesmith trading fours with rob heart. I mean, let me just say first off great job hanging and holding your own and performing at a level it's just Towards the back half of it. I mean literally after you kind of went. Oh, I got off you guys for a lot of it I'll say for people listening on just the podcast Rob has created a really cool visual with pictures that goes it Visually will tell us rob's plane steve's plane rob's plane steve's plane It really became hard to tell who was doing what because you were hanging so much with him But let me say early on when he just kind of started it was like to use your words He did not hold back at all He just jumped right in and was like i'm going for it which pulled you up to a level that was like Like you said wow, I probably didn't know I could even do that Well done man. That was awesome. Yeah, I wanted to say for um For the people just listening on on just the podcast audio Uh, I am the first soloist and i'm on the left side. He is on the right side now. You could tell Who's who but You know, that's helpful though. That's helpful, right? Yes. So yes, I did the I did the video of of Different pictures with you said the ken ken burns effect. So it is the ken burns style. Yep Yeah, incredible that had to be so much fun And uh, it's truly I don't know many things that'll make you better than trading fours with Steve Smith Because you probably heard him do something and the goal is it's not really like a oh, don't copy me type thing It's no, let me oh, let me let me try your idea Steve. Let me do this That's so cool Yeah, that's a jazz mentality. You know, you play off of each other interaction Yeah, so somebody plays something and then you play it back to him and that's You know the beauty of improvising Yeah, absolutely man. That one was awesome perfect one to kind of close things down with and um Uh, I will say that uh rob and I originally when we did this we were going to have Multiple different examples of different drummers throughout and we kind of decided that no, I mean, there's so much info from what you can't have So many people in one episode. It just becomes Overload so I'm glad we gave this whole episode to mr. Steve Smith I think it's a great way to start this what will be a kind of a mini series with rob So uh rob this really flew by I mean, this was just incredible. Um, why don't you tell people right now? Like I said before rob heart drum studio dot com h a r t Tell people about you and what you're doing right now Beyond that where they can find you lessons all that cool stuff. Uh as we close things out Okay, well, um We just released a new website and uh, actually, uh, one of my keyboard players that I went to school with who passed away um his nephew Is a tech genius and a musician. He's playing. He's in southern california Uh, but he's he's a code genius. He built the website for me. Uh shout out to ty Tyler sepula and um, it is, um Online lessons you can take online lessons with me over, um, you know any, uh skype or zoom Uh, it's also I've got my lesson courses that are video that are available There's a subscription model there And if you want to stop by my studio in the barrier, that's offered too. So Um, we have everything on there. Um, it's it really turned out great Um, I actually do have a youtube channel, uh, which is rob heart trio You know on you youtube and uh, you can check out a lot of stuff there too I post a lot of different solos and lessons Um, and yeah, reach out and get in touch with me. I'm I'm really eager to, um, you know connect with people Especially this time of post covet. Yeah, really It's nice to get back and see people and do things like that But now it's a mix of the two of online lessons and in person Your website looks great my friend. I will say I've seen it from before and I've seen it now So he did a great job and uh, I mean you can focus on doing the lessons and knowing that It's kind of a necessary evil. That's just massive project of a website where it really does look very good So again, everyone rob heart drum studio dot com Check it out take some lessons with rob, uh, because The key to all this is when you're taking lessons with rob You're then taking You know second hand lessons with all of the great teachers who he has experienced and and had a lot of time What such as steve smith? Tony williams mike clark Uh, robbie gonzalez scott morris so, um Rob, why don't we queue it up then? I think the next one That I would love to do is maybe we do mike clark next I think he's kind of another personality online that people are well aware of not that the other folks you have listed Are not but um, I think mike clark is a is a phenomenal drummer as well And I'd love to tackle that one next. How's that sound to you to come back and talk about mike clark great Cool. All right. Well then um Rob, thank you for being here and a big thank you to steve smith for kind of okaying you sharing these like uh behind the The closed lesson doors experiences Um, so big thanks to steve smith. Um, everyone can go and check out steve smith on he's on youtube He's he has a website. He's on facebook all that good stuff. I'll put links in the description for steve smith's current, you know offerings and all that good stuff, um, so Rob, thank you for being here my friend. Thank you so much for having me bar