 This is something that we see in the movies at the moment, but just the fact that somebody from the 1630s could be predicting something that we see in science fiction movies today I think is really fascinating. Hello, welcome to The Royal Society. My name is Keith Moore, I'm a librarian here, and we're talking about the written word books from The Royal Society's library. Here to help me is Susie Inver, who's a planetary scientist at the University of Leicester. Susie, tell me what you do. Oh, thank you. I work as a planetary scientist looking at the planets in the solar system and how they interact with the sun. So I'm looking at what's coming from the sun, the solar wind, the magnetic field that flow out from the sun all the time, and this generates things like the beautiful aurora or the northern lights that some of us have the privilege to go and see, but also it can cause damaging effects as well, so things like damage to communication systems, GPS systems, astronaut health and so on. So we're talking today about a discovery of a new world by John Wilkins, one of the books from The Royal Society Library. It's a beautiful thing and it looks at the moon and speculates about how one would get there, what you would find along the way, the problems you'd have to overcome to get to the moon. Did you expect the 17th century to be interested in travelling to the moon? I had no idea. I had no idea that they were thinking about this kind of thing in the 17th century. Honestly, no idea. I mean, there was no rockets back then. There was no way they could even dream of going fast enough. So we're going to ask you to score him on his ideas for getting to the moon. Great. But first of all, I mean, he begins by thinking about the history of travel more generally, and he begins his speculation like this. In the first ages of the world, the islanders thought themselves either to be the only dwellers upon Earth, or else if there were any other, they could not possibly conceive how they might have any commerce with them being severed by the deep and broad sea. But after times found out the invention of ships, in which notwithstanding none but some bold daring men durced venture, and yet now, how easy a thing is this, even to a timorous and cowardly nature, and questionless the invention of some other means for our conveyance to the moon cannot seem more incredible to us than this did at first to them. And therefore, we have no just reason to be discouraged in our hopes of the like success. So, Wilkins on the possibility of travelling in space, what do we think in terms of marks out of ten? I'm going to give him ten, because he's completely correct. We went from an era of being dwellers with a big ocean that we couldn't get across, and he draws these amazing parallels between things he knows about already and the world as it evolved, and what he thinks could happen in the future. I think that requires some imagination for him to make that step, but the parallels are absolutely there. And the other thing he says which is quite interesting is about the idea of explorers exploring this new world, and in some senses, the first astronauts to go out into deep space, and indeed the ones that will go to the moon in the future, they are explorers, aren't they? That is the nature of their job, so I think he's brilliant. He talks about a ship, he doesn't specify what kind of ship would take you to the moon, but he does think in those terms that if people could design a ship for one purpose, then clearly they can for another. If a man were above the sphere of the magnetical virtue which proceeds from the Earth, he might there stand as firmly in the open air as he can now upon the ground, not only so, but he may also move with a far greater swiftness than any living creature here below, because he is without all gravity, being not attracted anyway, and so consequently will not be liable to such impediments. I'm going to give him probably a 7 out of 10 on that one, because he's got some really interesting ideas, he hasn't quite got his physics right, but actually some of the things that he's describing are in fact as we see them, so for example he's talking about moving with less impediment, well of course as you move through space, there aren't very many particles there to stop your motion, and so you can accelerate to much greater speeds than you could do here down on the Earth through the Earth's atmosphere, so he's got that part right. I think we have to give him a slide break because he's writing before Isaac Newton came along to explain it. That's fair, so the idea of being outside of gravity if you go, okay there is still gravity in space, but we'll give him a break on that one I think. Very good. So in terms of the Earth-Moon distance, Wilkins calculates that this is a journey of 52 semi-diameters of the Earth, which is 179,000 and a bit English miles. That's really interesting, so he's saying that the Moon is 52 Earth radii from the Earth, and the real answer is 60. So he's very close in his estimation. What is he thinking about in terms of surviving? Can you breathe? In terms of survival, he only knows what Earth-bound survival would look like. Okay. So he knows that if you climb up a mountain, you get a more rarefied atmosphere, so that much they know. And he thinks a moistened sponge would be the tool you would take as breathing apparatus if you went into space. I'll bear that in mind next time I'm climbing mountains. Yep, handy advice, sorry. So one of the things he says about travelling to the Moon is that potentially you wouldn't need to take much food with you if you didn't have to do too much exercise. And he puts it like this. Since our bodies will then be devoid of gravity and other impediments of motion, we shall not at all spend ourselves in any labour, and so consequently not much need the reparation of diet, but may perhaps live altogether without it, as those creatures have done who by reason of their sleeping for many days together have not spent any spirits and so not wanted any food. I like this idea and it's an idea that's common in our science fiction films of today, isn't it the idea that we can go into some kind of suspended animation and travel long distances without being conscious. I think again, he's showing good imagination, he's looking at the world around him, he's recognising what happens in nature with animals hibernating and he's thinking about the fact that actually they don't eat when they're hibernating and maybe the journey's long, eating lots of food and so this could help. So yeah, I like his idea. Yeah, I'm going to give him an eight out of ten. Eight, that's good. Yeah, he's doing well. He's not bad at all. Nor could we well conceive how a man should be able to carry so much luggage with him in so tedious a journey. I believe we shall scarce find any lodgings by the way, no inns to entertain passengers, nor any castles in the air unless they be enchanted ones to receive poor pilgrims. That's nice. He's thinking about the journeys that he takes, a long journey, how they would stop at inns presumably to refresh their horses and to get more supplies and then continue their journey. But we have an enchanted castle in the air, don't we? The International Space Station is our enchanted castle. Absolutely. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? We do have a staging point perhaps for future exploration for sure. Marks out of ten. I think he's very practical actually. So I'm going to give him another eight. Can't argue with that. He's thinking about the real challenges. I'm enjoying listening to his words. Yet I do seriously and upon good grounds affirm it possible to make a flying chariot in which a man may fit and give such motion unto it as shall convey him through the air. I conceive it no difficult matter if a man had the leisure to show more particularly the means of composing it. The perfecting of such an invention would be of such excellent use that it were enough not only to make a man famous but the age also wherein he lives so that notwithstanding all these seeming impossibilities it is likely enough that there may be a means invented of journeying to the moon and how happy shall they be that are first successful in this attempt. That is a fantastic quote. Yes, absolutely. I like the way he begins it by saying if you only had time to design it we'll leave the hard bits to someone else. Someone else can do the designing but the idea of this chariot that takes us to the moon and what an epic event that would be would a huge sort of change in our perspective on the world you would guess if you were able to go to the moon. He's thinking about this. Yeah, and it was. I still remember it. You know, it's still one of a treasured memory of mine. You're seeing the Apollo Astro. And I think Wilkins ends on this kind of grandiose note which is quite moving, I thought. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it's a lovely ending to the book. He's described his vision. He's described ways in which we could get there and he's made all these calculations and now he just leaves it to future scientists perhaps to come up with a means of doing it. So I think for that quote I'd give him 9 out of 10. Given the state of scientific knowledge at the time, 1638 when this book was published he really had some incredible ideas. He was thinking well ahead of his time, wasn't he? He was dreaming of today's technology back then and I think that's really quite incredible and that's why I scored him so highly, not because he was always right on the physics, some of the physics he couldn't be right on because actually those theories hadn't been developed yet. But his imagination, combined with the physics that he knew gave him some really interesting insights into the system, the distances, the speeds and the challenges and so I rate him extremely highly. So when you go to the moon obviously you'll be taking me with you but will you be taking John Wilkins? Absolutely, that would be the book that goes in my pocket. It's absolutely beautiful. I can't believe I'm holding a book from 1600 and... 1680s this one. From 1680s and the ideas coming from 1638. I think it's beautiful, I think it's absolutely beautiful. Very interesting. I'm kind of terrified to hold it actually because I know it's a valuable book.