 Good evening, and welcome to episode 385 of the Private Property Podcast on your home street. It's the Tuesday edition of the Private Property Podcast, and for the first time, welcome to the family. You're tuned in to the early Daily Property Show in South Africa catering to your property needs. Make sure that you go to our Facebook or YouTube page to catch up on all the great episodes that you've already missed out on. You can also catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, our regular viewers on Facebook, Instagram, as well as on YouTube, welcome to it. You know how we do. Every single weekday, you and I have an appointment at 7 p.m., we're always in conversation with a property expert who helps us make better property decisions. Doesn't matter where you are on your property journey, you're looking to buy, to sell, to build, you're still a tenant or a new landlord, we're sitting here to help you get the right insight and knowledge along your property journey. And talking about the right insight and knowledge, you can of course catch our other great shows across private properties, social media pages, that do just that. It is a Tuesday, so you can catch them by link on the farming podcast later on at 8 p.m. and buy them on your screens on those days at the same time. And every Monday, Saturday, Friday's chat brings you the home shoppers show, where it takes us through exquisite properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. And of course on Wednesdays, it's the class that brings you the first time home buyers show, which is always in conversation with people who do not only work with that journey, but it's certainly going to grow their property portfolios from stream to stream. Well, those are the great shows that you can catch every single weekday at 8 p.m., do make sure that you tune in to the rest of the team. And of course, if you go to our Facebook page, you'll see we're running a great competition where we give away 500 rounds in cash every single weekday, right here on the private property podcast. And all you have to do to stand a chance of walking away with that cash prize is to comment on, you know, what are some of the things that you have learned, picked up some of the advice and insights that you have picked up on the show. And if we call your name, then you are certainly going to be able to walk away with that 500 rounds. You only catch, you have to be watching us live in order to claim your prize. We haven't had the winners claiming their prize and it's such the money has rolled over into the money bag. I think we're not sitting at what 2,000 rounds is now up for grabs in the money bag. And so do hope that whoever's name gets called out is watching and can claim that prize. Well, that's somewhat you can look forward to our Facebook page to make sure that you enter as many times as you'd like. The more times you enter, certainly the more chances, the higher your chances of walking away with that cash prize. And I can see some of the viewers at home already showing us some love tuning in there on Facebook. We've got Oculto Ramfale, Umar Dasch, and I'm saying happy Tuesday. And the perfect choice, and I absolutely love that. Absolutely is the perfect choice. Now, this evening, we're talking about something that I know some new possibilities with it, because every time we speak about this kind of setup, many of you at home certainly always have something to say, have a lot of questions to ask, because oftentimes it's a very, it's very new territory. So a lot of us are learning as we go. And we're looking at all you need to know about home-owning's association, you know, we talk a lot about corporate and the composition and how it works, but we also know that these HOAs, we're going to be looking at what our HOAs, you know, how are they different from when you're in a complex that's run as, you know, as a board of corporate, what are some of the key things you need to know about it, and really exploring some of the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to all things HOA. And who better to help us better manage and certainly, you know, get a good sense of how we can manage our lives. Even living in a state that are run this way, then it will progress and he's a real estate principal at properties.com. It will. Good evening. And thank you so much for joining us on the show. Great evening, Zama. It is such a pleasure to be back on your show again to talk about the good, the bad and the ugly of home-owning's association. So yeah, thanks. It's so great to have you. I think you and I always talk about this because this is the line of work that you are in. It's, you know, I do quite a bit of work also in the space. So we know too well some of the pressure points when it comes to sectional title living, regardless of what it looks like. I think let's start with what is an HOA. I think many people is working on the show a lot about, you know, the corporate and having trustees. But when talking about an HOA, what exactly are we talking about? So basically, your HOA is just like a sectional title scheme. The difference, however, is that with an HOA, basically you own the property as well as the land that it is on, right? Whereas in the sectional title scheme, you literally own the walls without the land that it's on. And the land that you are it on basically becomes what we call common property in an HOA. You own the property as well as the land that it sits on. And any other land extra within the estates that nobody really owns becomes the common estates property where you actually derive financial benefits or some sort of benefits as a member of the HOA from. And I want to find out from your viewers at home, whether you are living in a community that is in a sectional scheme. So it's a corporate or, of course, an HOA. And how are you currently finding it? I think a lot of us always get a shock when we do communal living for the first time. I complain about it all the time that when you grew up at Gassi and it is literally your home and the family's home, and you can do whatever you want. And there's nobody telling you what you can and cannot do. And then you get the shock as an adult of living within a community context, whether it's HOA or sectional title and all these rules and all these regulations. And of course, the added cost of it can be quite overwhelming. I think there also be just quite a shock to the system. So when I found out from you at home, which one are you living in? You know, did you know that there was even a difference? Or is this also something that you are finding out along with us this evening? Now, when we then look at HOA, we see that the way that you also own your property is slightly different from your sectional title. I think let's then look at the running of the HOA, because I think this is typically where the pain point is. How is an HOA run differently from the way that sectional titles are typically run? So, you know, the funny part here, Zama, is that there are actually two parts of homeowners associations. Right. There is those that we referred to as common law homeowners association with those. Basically, then the you can use the sectional title schemes, management act and a couple of other acts to basically help you run it. Right. Then you have those very specific ones. So those that are basically incorporated as a nonprofit company, for example, and those are actually governed in a totally, totally, totally different way. The sectional title schemes, management act really does not apply there because what it is, it's that it's a company on its own. So basically the company's act actually dictates how such an HOA gets run. And oftentimes people go, so how do I know which one I'm in? The basic thing basically is to start off by looking at, you know, that your sale agreement that that you were given and it should have the NPC next to it. If it has an NPC in the sectional title, in the homeowners association's name, you know for a fact that it is basically incorporated with its memorandum of incorporation. And therefore it means the governing documents of that of that HOA is what's going to govern it. Right. And then if it does not have it in terms of the NPC, then, you know, it is just a normal common law, HOA. And if the common law, HOA, then the people are going to come together and make certain governance rules for themselves. And in the process of that, it means that they are not really properly constituted. And oftentimes they would borrow the sectional title schemes, management act to to help it be run better. We are going to be taking, we are taking, of course, some questions and comments at home and seeing all the love that we're getting from many of you who are watching, sending those green hearts, happiness, Bongani, Queen Pima, Bonda, Tracy Stanley on YouTube, saying every episode has been very informative. Thank you for sharing this valuable information. And she's watching us all the way from the mother city. Thank you very much, Tracy. And I see Martha saying, looking forward to some ammunition from Ebo Pella. We are keeping body corkers and HOAs on their toes. Thanks to this man. Absolutely love that, right? Because I think it's one of the things that as I think more as more and more of us have a good sense of even what we as members or members of the corporate, what we can and cannot do and what we should be asking, whether it's the trustees or of course the managing agent. The easiest also is for us because we know where our money is going. But and it is keeping them on their toes because I think they used to deal in with a band who don't know where, you know, how things are run and how did she best navigate it? And I want you to get a sense and let's start with the good because I think after the break, we look at the shortcomings because and I know that many people often have a lot of horror stories. But when we look at, you know, an HOA, what would you say are some of the key sort of great features of going an HOA route versus, of course, growing the body corporate future. I thought you promised you wouldn't put me on the spot. I mean, that's a good spot. I think because we're going to look at not so great things. I think they're not so great things is is more a be aware of this as opposed to a it's a bad thing. I think more than anything, it's literally be aware of it in the same way, you know, when we communal living is their communal spaces and in certain instances when you want to host an event, in one of them and an exclusive one that you need to notify somebody, you must be aware of those things. So it's not even that it's a bad thing, but you'll never be able to to, you know, make a better decision. So basically, right? You asking what is a great thing about being in an HOA as compared to to a sectional title scheme? I'm, you know, like in relationships, people want to feel that they should get married in a cruel without, you know, without a cruel. Now, when it comes to property, I've fallen in love with community of property, right? So it's like everybody gets to share. In an HOA, I really, really love the aspect of HOA from a sharing point of view in that when the HOA is ran very well, especially those that have extra bits of land and stuff, you have a great opportunity within the States to generate maximum, maximum income. And that basically allows for you to add great value to the property from the very beginning when you are active in it. I love that a lot. I love the fact that also within an HOA because we all kind of own our land and we we have we build according to the the building rules. We then have the ability to and, you know, the bit of freedom to to enjoy our house a little bit more, whereas within a sectional title, people don't often get that freedom. Somebody says, I want to, you know, I want. I want my property to look a certain way, but unfortunately you can only do it from inside and nobody can see it. And you need to deal with trustees when you need to do an extension and it's not always so pleasant. HOA is you have the opportunity there that are building guidelines with those restricts. Sometimes we've been certain HOA, but generally there's freedom to the architectural designs and that allows you to put a little bit of your creativity onto your property. And that's that's one of the great things about being in the HOA, in my view, compared to a sectional title scheme where you don't have those opportunities. I am in conversation this evening with Evel Pograin and we're looking at all you need to know about from earners association. We'll be taking your questions and comments. But before that, we're going to a quick break to see who the lucky winner of the 2000 rounds that is in the money bag. Before we go to that break, I want to read some of the entries that were received on that pin post on our Facebook page. Remember to go to that post if you want to enter the competition where you stand a chance of walking away with five hundred grand in cash every single evening. A comment here coming through from A.A. to Maegiso saying, I've learned a lot of things on the private property podcast like the importance of property inspections before buying the property, the importance of having a good credit score and the importance of having a will. Oh, happiness, Malulika, say my favorite private property shows is absent, but we learn a lot about how to save money and how to invest and how to go about having a will. I think the episode of the will really touched you know, touched your nerve and certainly impacted a lot of people. We'll see if we can have it back, because I think that was really, really great episodes when we had the chance around having a will and the various considerations to think through when you are putting that will together. O'Ponzo and Senior saying, any show with Yaku is my favorite. I like how well he explains these terms Yaku for president. Thank you, O'Ponzo. And of course, we're going to be taking more of your questions and comments and going through them. I can really see some of the great questions that you want us to cover this evening. But let's take that quick break, see who the lucky winner is and come back to the questions and the comments. And that lucky winner this evening is Beraka Fundi. Beraka Fundi 2000 rounds is up for grabs. I hope that you're watching. Drop us a message down here below to claim your prize. And of course, if Beraka doesn't do so, we're going to have another roll over. I only love rollovers for the person who ultimately gets the big pot. But let's see if Beraka is indeed watching us and can claim that prize. Going back to our conversation with Evel Kragere and talking all things, H-O-A. And I can see some of the great questions that we've gotten early on in the show. I asked you whether you're living in a sectional title or, of course, in an H-O-A. We've got Mallory Pethas saying sectional title, common property, first time hearing of H-O-A. As I said, some people are going to hearing H-O-A for the first time. And that's why we want to make sure that we unpack it very well for you at home. We'll indeed see Chabela saying, how can freestanding properties disengage from home owners' associations? As it is tedious as it is a tedious exercise to find owners who have the right to sign. This is only a portion of properties around my area. So how, I mean, is that even possible? Eber, how can people go about doing so, especially in those areas where there just aren't that many of you anymore? So I'm laughing, and I'm laughing so loud because I'm literally dealing with a problem like that. We have a certain state that has over 600 units. And within that is of course five body corporates and one of the owners who owns a predominant amount of the one of the body corporates is fed up and wants to literally create his own gates so that he can be out of their state. So you do get these things, right? Where people are asking, how do I disassociate myself from an H-O-A? I think from your, your guess, I mean, from your viewer's point of view, if I'm understanding correctly, it's probably one freestanding house. It is part of the H-O-A, but there's not a lot of them. And therefore they're really struggling. So that's probably a common law H-O-A thing that's been formed there. Oftentimes in the frustration that's coming from there is not so much about the fact that they are few. The problem that she's probably facing or he's facing is the fact that it's not well run or it's not so formalized. So therefore, everybody kind of does what they want, when they want, and nobody's winning there. In such an instance, you need to basically, as members, have the conversation among yourself and decide. Now, on a common law situation like that, literally you need all of you to make that decision. Sadly so. If all of you are not deciding, all of you are stuck. But if you can get everybody to say, actually, we, what's it? We tied off this common law marriage. We all want to just be by ourselves. And then you can go ahead and do that. But it's often very difficult. And it comes with a bit of frustration. However, I think the bottom line basically is just getting good management. One thing that we've enjoyed in this space, empowering people within this space, is the ability to get those dysfunctional sort of relationships within a property ownership and make it work and get that magic going again. So yeah, I would advise your viewer, if they can, they should just get in touch with us or anybody that they know. And let's help formulate it properly. I think they would enjoy that better. Don't leave, stay. And another question that's actually touching on something you've already briefly mentioned, but I think you should answer it directly coming through from Teahakumunyai asking, can you have body corporate and HOA on the same stage? Yes, you can. Yes, you can. And it often happens, especially with these new developments coming up. Remember, Salafiq is very limited in terms of our land space. So the maximization of the space is very important. And oftentimes to be able to do that, it means that one has to build high volume sectional title schemes so that you can recoup your profits and then give an exclusive portion for the HOAs. So it's very possible. Now, there's a there's a trap that comes with this kind of arrangement. And that is getting a managing agency that doesn't really understand what an estate is. So oftentimes people then go for your conventional sectional title scheme management companies and they're not really grown to understand a state because the states are new to them. So so then if you get the wrong management managing agent there, you'll have or you have multiple managing agents. It kind of creates a problem and it kind of the budgeting goes off. You find that more people are paid like those in the body corporates always suffer and they pay more. And then those in the states pay less. And then everybody kind of doesn't really get what they need to get to improve the actual estate. And then everybody's asset doesn't grow in the way they should. So to answer your question directly, yes, you can have different body corporates plus fully owned title properties within one estate, forming one homeowner's association. So, yeah. And of course, the issue of money is one that we're never going to escape when we talk about any kind of communal living. The question from Oatsepo Mokhmudi asking, does the OTA levy differ from the standard levy? So break down how the levy component then would typically work in an HRA. So so basically it's, you know, like with every single community of property and I'm I'm using this word community of property consistently because it kind of makes sense when somebody then looks at it from a relationship point of view, right? So I'm trying to make it simple. What happens is it's like you run your home. You need to make sure that you have the basic things that you you need to budget for. Within an estate, biggest things you're going to look at is your security at the estate. You're going to look at, of course, management. You're going to look at the general upkeep of the of the land. So those big expenses, you want to make sure that you budget for them. You're going to look at municipality and and how they basically expensive utilities within your your homeowner's association or your estate, right? And once you have all of that, then you're able to then budget backwards. So, of course, the body corporates within the within the estate will occupy a certain portion of the land and they would have a certain amount of people living within it. So therefore they would consume a certain amount of of the of the estate's expense, right? Then you'd have to budget towards people in an equitable manner, such like that. And when you're doing it that way and you proportionate on pay use and stuff, it becomes easy for everybody and it becomes a bit fairer. Now, to answer again, when he's asking, so how does it differ from just the normal body corporate doing its budgets? A normal body corporate's budget does not necessarily differ from an HOS budget. The only difference is you're looking at where the body corporate is within the within the estate. You first go into budget for the body corporate, then you're going to budget the portion of the body corporate's expenses that relate actually to the estate. And those amounts need to be collected by the body corporate from its members and then pay it over to the estate because basically the body corporate is a member of the estate and the members of the body corporate are members within the body corporate. So your managing agents needs to know those nuances and those differences and ensure that when they're collecting, they're actually paying it over to the estate because it is such a pain to find body corporate collecting and not paying to the estate and then the estate goes broke. And guess what? The body corporate looks very great in an island that looks terrible. And the value of the asset doesn't really appreciate because people are going to see your entrance first. And that's where you need to put the money in so that when they get to you, they can pay you top dollar. Mezi Wutelesi on Facebook saying, Zama, I think you know, at this point, I pick HLAs of a body corporate's chest pains. I think so many of us have had chest pains when it comes to dealing with body corporates and probably why we may want to go the HLA route. But as we even look at that, what are some of the things that there's a home should be you should look out for in terms of what could potentially be let's call it a shortcoming of an HOA that, you know, that if you're not aware of it, it may probably make you a bit uncomfortable finding out at a later stage. So so here's a big one. Zama, you know, I play golf, right? And and most people love golf estate. And they think, oh, gee, was I'm buying this golf estate. I own a certain percentage of the of the golf course and all of those things only to get the governance documents of the HOA and realize, oh, snap. I actually just own my property and I people come and play all the golf in the world and not even one round of it comes to the estate because it belongs to somebody else. That's a big bummer. So you buy it into an HL and this time I'm going to use the word broadly to say you buy into an estate, right? You buy into an estate that is an HOA. The first thing you really, really want to look at is that sale agreement that you are about to sign, because there's three things that you really, really need to look at. You need to look at the actual sale agreement and see the terms and conditions that relate to their state. If you don't read those terms properly, you will be committing to an estate where literally everything that you buy you buy is not owned by you and you're never going to ever benefit. And neither will your kids. A classic example, I don't want to mention names, but if you just go up the road on the M1, beautiful properties. But yeah, and they would never get to own it. You need to need to be careful about that. A second thing you want to look at is the title deed conditions. OK, so so the title deed conditions is actually what I've answered with that example that I gave because that is what the people that were buying into that estate got caught by. The title deed conditions are so, so important. And we so often neglected because we like, where do I get a title deed? Where do I look for this thing from? The SG diagrams are public information. You should ask your estate agents to get it for you. If they say it costs an extra five hundred past a thousand or whatever, please pay for it and get those. Title deed conditions and look at them and know that you know what it is that you buy. Then the third one, the very, very important one is the governance documents of the HOA that you're buying into. Because remember, it's a company, right? So you basically join in this company and it's it's a marriage of inconvenience. If you want to look at it from that point of view, because you don't choose you come in and you are part of it. And you are part of it. And that's it. There's nothing you can do. So once you're part of this marriage, you want to know what is the information that is literally going to guide this relationship as during the duration that you own in this asset? What are the rules? You know, some of my of my ass and I'm going to speak in terms of as Africans and Black people, we would want to maybe have to go to something. And then the government's document says, no, you can't cut a sheep and you're like, but I own the land that it's on. So I want to cut the sheep. It's my way of celebrating. Look at those governance documents because they're very, very important. They will detect whether you are indeed going to get the lifestyle that you do aspire to have or not. So if there's anything to take from this, those are the three things you should look for. I mean, the one thing that I will say about slaughtering is that the actually you can't make the provision that you can't slaughter and they can say you need to get their permission, but it's not legal to prohibit you from slaughtering in any estate in the country. This case law to back it up if you ever find yourself in those kinds of situations. We've got a comment from Ophiuchong, where it's saying, I mean, in HLA, honestly, I didn't know the difference. For me, it was just about owning a home in a secure environment. And a great question you have from Martha, especially at the back of your comment about how this is a marriage of inconvenience. And, you know, you get in there and you find who you find. And sometimes it may not be run particularly well. And another question is, what's the HLA member's rights when an HLA becomes a bankrupt under the directors? So, yes, the big one, you know, like how sectional title schemes, people go in and then they say the developer owns this and then people chill and they sit like this for the duration of their ownership. It is insane how this is being done in HLA as well, where people feel that, oh no, I bought, it's a developer's property, there's nothing I can do. They're running the place into the ground, so be it. There's actually no, there is something you can do because you're a member. And the virtue of you being a member means that you actually do have a right to equally become a director. There are meetings that get held and you need to participate in those. You need to put your hands forward. So, if you do have unskilled people running your estate, please do not keep quiet. Reach out to companies as ourselves, reach out to people like me who have a passion to basically help turn situations like this around. And let's help you because it's an asset. An asset should put money back in your pocket. And if it's gonna put money back in your pocket, believe me, you wanna be actively participating in it. You know, you're in a marriage and if you're in a marriage and you just get an abuse in the marriage and you keep it quiet, it's not the abusers fault, it's yours. You need to speak out and you need to decide what you wanna do. And if it's not working, then you sell and you out. The same thing for an HOA as a property. Speak out, get people to join you because you know, you'd be very surprised. But oftentimes, estates get run badly because the people who were made directors from the very beginning were friends of the developer, right? And the developer throws them in there and they really had no skill set and they kind of just stay and they relinquish power and everything to managing agents like ourselves when we come in. It's not supposed to be the case. The director's role is basically to serve us and oversight on the managing agents. And when there is such a healthy relationship where the directors are not doing the work actually but they serve us and oversight and they have a competent managing agent in place, then you get to formulate great ideas about the vision of your estate and you work together and you build it up. And again, that's why I love HOA so much because you can literally, with the least effort you can put so much money or so much what do you call it, equity into your property from the very beginning when you have people on the same vision and that they're working for your common good. The one thing that I'll pick up on that you said when you were saying a tough ingest is around the abusive marriage that you may find yourself and it's not your fault. Even in the context of property, I think the one thing is you know that you can do something about it and there are different ways to get resourced whether it's in an actual marriage or of course the marriage of inconvenience that so many of us find ourselves in when we choose communal living in whatever sort of shape and form it comes in. And I think one of the good things is a platform like this certainly does help you get a good sense of how to navigate it when you're in the property space and what are some of the things that you can even ask your managing agent about. And I know many people who live in institutional titles now know that they can join trustee meetings. They can't vote, but they certainly can join them. Something that many of us at home certainly weren't aware of in the beginning and I already see Menzi's question is it's already a yes, I'm going to end off with it right now Menzi. But Ebo on your side, any final tip for our viewers at home when it comes to living in an HOA or even people who are about to buy in an HOA things that they need to be aware of before of course buying into that particular community. So rule number one, education is everything. I think you don't have to go far to know that this is my passion. It's my life's purpose really to learn new things and to share and impact that knowledge onto others. It's what makes the world take. In our current world, we live in a world of information. We bless. So if there's any question you do not know, it's just a reach away from just asking the next person what is this and you'll get the information you need. So don't sit quiet. Ask as much information as you really desire to be able to make decisions. So there's a one part, educate yourself, educate yourself, educate yourself. Secondly, there's nothing so terrible as, and so people say knowledge is power, right? And I always say, actually that is not power. Applied knowledge is power. Applied knowledge is power. So if you get in all this education and you do nothing about it and you just going to sit and fold your arms consistently then nothing really moves. So you are in an HLA, you are in a body corporate, you've now been awoken, you need information, you need to do things differently. Reach out to persons that have the knowledge at properties.com we forever available to be able to just educate you and show you the ropes. Once you get known or you know the ropes, you need to act, you need to make those little changes so that you can add value to your assets. And you'd consistently hear me talk about assets, assets, asset because a property is not meant to be a liability. If it's a liability, it's a noose upon your neck, you should not have bought it in the first place. We buy property so that we grow in life so that we can have some sort of a legacy to point to the next generation so that they can come into the fold with it. So that's, yeah, that's the main thing. You want to grow your assets by applying yourself. Lastly, you are in an HLA today and you now know that you can become a director. Most of the time people sit within HLA's and they go, well, I own this property and I don't want to pay my ladies and I'm not going to pay my ladies. I don't care, I have an extra this day. Guys, the greatest thing about being in a community is that your contribution comes together, gets pulled together so that big things can happen. So no matter how disgruntled you are about whatever situations is going on within your body corporate or your HLA in the specific instance, make the budget and make sure you are making the contributions because it is so sad when you're putting so much and then your HLA basically hands over your property to the lawyers and it compounds an interest and now you're playing catch up and you can't catch up and then your property gets taken away from you and gets auctioned. It is very painful. You don't want to be in that position wherever you can make the contributions. And if you really, really can't, seek help very, very early and make the informed decision of actually selling and moving on so that you can get something else of equal value. And that is where we're going to end it off. Meza Boutelezzi had asked and the answer that I said was yes, he had asked, can we reach out to properties.com for body corporates too? Absolutely can and their website is down here below. So they don't only do HRAs, they also do body corporates. It's always such a pleasure to speak to you. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. It is absolutely a pleasure speaking to you and your viewers always, always really, really excited about the education yourselves as private property are putting out there. COVID really has changed a lot and it's made life absolutely fun because now everybody is getting real information. We're all going out there and be sharing with everyone. So yeah, Zama, thank you for doing this. You guys are amazing and I'm really grateful to be on your show once again. Thank you so much. That's Abel Quaggring, he's a real estate principal at properties.com and if you want to reach out to them, we have shared their website, we link to their website down here below so you certainly can reach out to them and that's how we're going to end of the private property forecast myself is on my door, my law. Unfortunately, Baraka Fundi has not raised their hand and cleaned their price and so we're going to have another roll over to tomorrow evening and I hope we'll ever, it would be interesting if we ever get to maybe five, even 10,000 rand and finally have somebody who raises their hands. Well, that's it for myself as I want to walk to my law. I'll be back on your streets tomorrow evening until then hoping you're staying home and staying safe.