 Welcome to Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Christopher Charell, an independent journalist, and I'm producing the Indo-Pacific Compass. I'm in Bangkok, Thailand. Joining us today to discuss Philippine securities is a senior security analyst in Manila, Philippines, Carla Cruz. Carla Cruz, I met earlier this year when I was in the Philippines understanding the situation with the Coast Guard, and I had great conversations with Carla since then. So Carla, one, thank you for joining the show. And then secondly, can you tell the audience about yourself? I am a senior security analyst in the Philippines. I am a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, D.C. I focus mainly on emerging domain threats and the use of new technologies in the defense security space. I'm a lecturer at the National Defense College and I also train a uniformed personnel on emerging technology. So it's a very interesting space to be in, especially in Manila. That's really fascinating. And can you tell us a little bit what happened recently with the storm that just reached a typhoon that said the Philippines and how is that raising security issues in Manila Bay with flooding and some of the land reclamation of the islands that you and I just discussed? So, you know, we're actually in there in August, you know, we're experiencing a late Anginio. And not the storms, typhoons coming through the Pacific are one thing and they're normal, but the Habaga monsoon season is being exacerbated by that. And, you know, we do experience a lot of flooding and landslides in a tropical country, but we've experienced flooding that we've never seen before. And I think that it's due to the increased reclamation activities in the Manila Bay and also off the coast of Zambales, which is where Subic Bay is actually located. So Manila Bay is right at the heart of the city in a, you know, it's a beautiful area and when you look out now, you barely can see through the horizon because it's all construction. So all of the sand is coming from various parts of the Luzon Island, maybe, you know, within 500 kilometer descents. And, you know, this is causing a lot of floods and a lot of people to actually have been displaced from their homes. Earlier this week, the U.S. Embassy registered complaints about these islands being constructed partly from connections with China. Can you comment a little bit about that and how that ties in with these ones? So the ironic part, Chris, is the CCCC, which is a state-owned construction company, was the one who was blacklisted by the World Bank and were the ones who were building the islands in this practice. So there the company that was awarded the contract to dredge and to reclaim these areas of Manila Bay. So these are obviously security concerns for the U.S. and the Philippines as well because, you know, they're operating on some business practices, first of all. And, you know, they built these artificial islands that encroach in our territories and that's been, you know, widely discussed as well as the Hague. How are these licensed and what kind of, you know, is this like a national bid or is this a local Manila bid? What are these bids about and how do they get the licenses for them? Okay, so from the Philippine government is structured in a federal way but without a federal, in the absence of a federal. So the local governments have a lot of discretion, especially when it comes to foreign-funded development projects, which this would fall under. And so the currents would have come from the local government, the city of Manila, during the previous mayor, Esfomerino, without really considering the environmental concerns of that, you know, the questions of what have come up from a national level. They, funny me, they built an artificial beach that right beside the embassy as well during the time and it's never been used because, you know, there weren't proper studies done with the flowing water and it's become just attachment for garbage. So, you know, I think that there needs to be some serious policy review around, you know, this situation and especially for large projects. Do you see the national government stepping in at this point or are their hands bound actually? You know, it's funny because we have a very strong environment, natural resources secretary and she has been very proactive in raising concern about this. Now, you know, we obviously, it all come falls down to what the strategy of the national government is and it seems that more than security, we're focused on economic recovery and somehow forgetting that the environment is a huge part in a sustained economic recovery. Okay, yeah, so it would seem if these islands are causing like devastating floods to downtown in other parts that would be have a very, very bad economic impact. Is that what we're seeing? Do we have any figures on the damages? Correct. I think the latest count was about 300,000 people would be permanently displaced in these coastal towns. And mind you, we're not archival of 7,000 islands. The way we live is very similar to the Hawaiian people, the way they live by the coast, you know, and the rest of the islands along the Pacific, they rely on, you know, on these waters for their livelihood and to feed them. So, you know, they're left without choice, but to go into the city that's already overpopulated. So you're dealing with that as well. Rather than going further out and encouraging, you know, increasing our agriculture, you know, economic activities. Is this then really impacting coastal erosion with, you know, damages to reefs and fisheries as well? When you're talking about. Definitely. Okay. Definitely. So the Philippines is home to several. I'm obviously not a scientist, but he, you know, areas of biodiversity. Verde Island past, I believe, is one that is that needs to be highlighted, I think, because a certain number of species live there and if they're, if that's disturbed, the wider kind of. Green life and the ecological system does get damaged. And, you know, secondly, we, there's a lot of dynamite fishing that happens. And so, you know, I'm not sure if you've seen the news, but we've had a lot of these bigger mammals that have floated up dead. And so there have been whales, blue gongs. There have been, you know, like, I think in Hawaii, it happened in Australia. So these waters are very close to each other. So there must be something happening that disturbed underneath that is unnatural. And so, you know, while technology plays a big part in advancing security and, you know. Fishing and, you know, improving essentially and helping our fishermen and that industry. I think we also need to look at what it means for the bio ecosystem. You know, that's quite an impact. The fishermen and the farmers, we're supposed to be having economic growth and the recovery are being damaged with the combination. If you will, climate crisis, as well as these islands making these small, small silence or artificial islands. You know, Chris, I mean, something that I think I should mention also that's very important. We are island people. And when, you know, you can't fish in a certain area because an area, you don't want to overfishing, you know, one part you move to another space, right? But that's kind of been weaponized by, you know, by certain states. And that's had to be tagged as illegal fishing. But really, I mean, you know, you move from space to space to place, given the temperature of the water, given the time of the year. And that's something that has happened for centuries, right? And that's to protect, you know, our livelihood and the big day. But to style somebody, they can't fish in a certain area because that's their territorial domain. I mean, we have fished in Indonesian, Filipinos have fished in Indonesian waters, Malaysian waters, and Vietnamese waters for centuries without a hitch and without being driven out, right? So we've had this community of all these islands for so many years. But why now are being told that you can only fish in certain parts of the waters that have been shared for many years without a hitch? And when you're talking about these waters, are you specifically discussing the West Philippine Sea and the Nine Dash Line assertions? Yes. And I'm also discussing the Pashi Strait, the Philippine rice, which is very, very rich in, you know, biodiversity. That's where you get these large clams. Tuna, especially in the Eastern Sea, word of the Philippines, all the way to the Papua New Guinea. So imagine from Mindanao, Northern Mindanao from General Santos, all the way across the Pacific. You get this beautiful tuna that's, I mean, you know, shared. I mean, it's part of a shared economy within the Pacific Rim that has been going on again for decades. You know, the trade of the marine rich resources has been something that has sustained us for many years. And now it's been limited. So it's very, very interesting. And our agriculture, especially marine agriculture, has actually been cut in half in the last 10 years. Yeah. So you're really talking about this coastal security, really, an increase. There's been more joint cooperation agreements. The Philippines has been signing on the security issues that overall, not about U.S., Japan, Australia. Even France and EU are now really looking at coastal security, environmental security, as one in the same. Can you comment on how some of these multilateral agreements have been unfolding in the last two or three months in a really rapid way? It has been, actually. I think that we've become a star of the darling of the region. The Philippines is so interestingly at the center of it all. But, you know, more than other countries taking an interest in the region, obviously, because it interests them, I think, I guess, more than in a security way. I think it's an economic way, right? But this is our home. And when you look at our history as Pacific Islands and Pacific Islands, meaning the archipelago stretching from the first island chain all the way down to the Philippines and then Indonesia into, you know, the Pacific Islands, the Nauru, Solomon, all the way to Papua New Guinea and Tahiti, you know, we live a certain way. We share a certain set of values. I think we're the same people. If I'm not mistaken, when I was looking this up, they found the DNA of native chickens in the Philippines. The same DNA and the chickens that they found all over the island chain. We live the same way. We have a very, I guess, protectorate approach to our people in our territory and what's important to us, but we're also not confrontation. We are such a like a pacifist, you know, group of people, but we love our home, right, and we protect what's ours. And I think that that shared set of values, more than other people taking interest in that, I think it's time for us to come together as islands, as an archipelago and protect that. Because it doesn't even have, it won't even need, along with the discussion of, you know, what do you get, and the last, actually, sense that, you know, you know what, if you see something in front of you, that is making you feel funny, you go, you take your boat, and you say, hey, what's up, right, and you see what's going on, and then you address it. But it is so innate and natural, because it's what you see every day and what you live, versus being so far away really, and what is, you know, what do they need. It's our lives every day that is on the line, right, so I think that security is moving in a direction that we have to think about it, that's how do we come together as an archipelagic theater within the Pacific grant. Okay, when you mentioned this archipelagic theater, what are your messages or comments for distant cousins in Hawaii, even Hawaii many times I know. I know, I heal, I love it very dearly, it reminds me of my hometown, Cebu. You know, more than a spiritual and historical connection, now technology actually connects us because we have data tables that go through the Pacific that run, I think, 97% of data in the world. So, imagine if one cable is severed, access to information, whether it's intentional or unintentional, can seriously, you know, interrupt our day-to-day lives. It's what connects us to the rest of the world, but it also what gives us some sense of security, right, that we're part of the rest of the world. And this is increasingly a space that is going to be challenged because, you know, this is what I think maybe I watched too much Oppenheimer, but it's what everybody had access to, you know, building a bomb. Everybody has access to the internet and how do you then put that into play when you look at what can become, what can make a country insecure and that's cutting it off from the rest of the world. Okay, that's fantastic. In terms of increasing this connectivity, if you will, again, using just a little bit of... IndoPaycom has had a very increased role in the Philippines in the last several months also and strengthening relationships and friendships and partnerships with the Philippines. Can you comment a little bit more about what you've seen with that engagement and how the Philippines public is reacting to it? You know, CSIS ran a very interesting survey, I think it was in 2020, about who they would rather be their big brother. The Philippines during the President's time, there was a lot of bickering and a lot going on in the background, but you can't erase like 50 plus years of one of the strongest alliances that is not just on paper but built within us. It's been such a welcome, a welcome development, so I think we've had announced about nine bases. Most of them have been one concentrated really on humanitarian, bringing humanitarian relief to the communities in terms of, you know, in times of calamity, which is really tested now. So up north, I'll give you an example, in Kageyan, it was actually, the governor had been very vocal about not welcoming them in because of the number of bases and maybe it would attract more issues than maybe it would help, right? But what happened? You know, in the last week, we lost, no one lost their lives. Yes, they lost their homes, but they were fed, they were taken care of, their psychosocial needs were attended to because we had the assistance of our friends in the U.S. If not, it could have been so hard to mobilize those resources. Second, we actually, you know, been challenged to step up. I think as a government because we've had to improve our policies and our accountability and to be able to stand side by side essentially with somebody that expects a lot of us as a partner. I think that it's become a more fair partnership than it was looked at by previous generations. More than just technology transfer, we're seeing a lot more human capital development. So we're able to keep the, you know, the growth here and maybe hopefully send on the way less Philippines and keep them here where we need them. That was really fascinating comment. Can you talk a little bit more about the human capital development engagement with U.S.? How's that? Who's organizing that? What does that look like? Sure. Sure. So, because I think the Philippines has a lot more to offer in terms of developing maritime domain awareness technologies and, you know, becoming a regional physical shop, right? We have 7,000 islands that you have different geographies and terrains. So when you're looking at increasing maritime domain awareness and integrating different forms of deterrence now using technology and humans and human intelligence, I think that the Philippines will have a lot to offer again, because it goes back to this is what we live, right? Where do you install sonars and where do you gather information? Who do you gather the information from? It's these people in the local governments where the bases are nearest that you will learn from. And so I think that those will be really, those are going to be really, those are going to be really beneficial moving the economies and building a local defense posture and industry, hopefully eventually as we throw this out. When you're talking about the, the idea basis, these are Philippines basis, but the U.S. is building in software within them and hardware infrastructure. That's correct, right? Some people think that. They're fortifying them, yes. Philippines basis, okay. Oh, no, they're Philippine basis, yes. Okay. To clarify that, because some people, I've heard a variety of things. We're building basis there. I said these are Philippines basis actually for some of those. Yes. Are there other corporations ongoing between the Philippines and other nearby states? Indonesia, for example, Papua New Guinea or any kind of island centered coastal security collaborations that you're seeing develop? So we are actually having our first naval exercises with Indonesia. The Philippines and Indonesia are leading without any other nation, which is very promising. The Philippines and Indonesia come together and see the power that they have in the region and can support our brothers and sisters in the Pacific. For them to join in and build their own maritime business would be an amazing development. I understand, you know, there are many Filipinos working and living within, you know, in Guam. I think half of Guam is Filipino and maybe Hawaii. So that already comes into play, right? So more than just naval exercises, I think building capacity and helping human capital development in these islands to be led by the Indonesian and the Philippines who have been around a little bit longer and a little bit more mature in what's needed would be really good to start a conversation. That's fascinating. You mentioned Hawaii, Guam, Filipino workers, lots of Indonesian workers. And you're seeing this on the naval level as military to military, but what about like civilian coastal exchanges, coast guards? So I understand, from what I understand, there's an international fusion center in Singapore and a national post watch center here in the Philippines. And these are actually being built up all throughout the Pacific. I'm talking about it from a technology perspective because that's what I appreciate other than building kinetic and, you know, kind of hardware, right? So what's important in moving to the future is the exchange of information and how we turn that actionable intelligence so we can make better decisions on how to move forward. So establishing these information centers, so from Singapore to the Philippines, and then I believe Papua New Guinea and Indonesia have them, is, you know, so we can all gather data and collaborate on how to address this problem together rather than in silos. So this is part of the Indo-Pacific maritime domain awareness program that was established by the Quad. And so it's strongly supported by Australia and Japan on a more local level. But, you know, building these information fusion centers I think are the way to go without having to put boots on the ground and put people's lives at risk. So you mentioned these information fusion centers and the Quad mechanism. How does the Philippines participate within the Quad mechanism? I think the Philippines is the little brother that's there all the time for Japan and Australia. But I think the Philippines is going to step up very soon, especially again with this human capital development value that we bring to the table. Everybody else benefits from who the Filipino is and how ingenious the Filipino is in service and, you know, running critical infrastructure all around the world. But, you know, in times of crisis, I think we'll need to come home, right? And you'll see that more and more. So the Indo-Pacific maritime domain awareness programs will not only capacitate civilian, uniform personnel, but also the military. Fantastic. You are sometimes a technical advisor to the Philippines military. What are some of your messages to them about all of these converging trends and ideas? I think, okay, well, that's a really interesting question. You know, it's nice to have all the shine. It's so nice to have, right? But these things get old, they get rusty. In the end, what matters? It's building your people and their ability to withstand whatever is thrown their way, right? I've seen it here because we've had very little and I've seen what they can build with just a laptop. You know, so rather than spending money on things that depreciate really fast, I said, let's put money back into our people. Ask them to come home and give them something to look forward to, to fight for, that we as a nation need to come together in this program. Yeah, that's fantastic, Carla. Do you have any sort of parting words of wisdom about how the world can look at the Philippines going forward for the rest of this year, if you will, with coastal security technology and human capacity building? So the Philippines, I joke, the Philippines exports people, right? We are a great source of human capital. But at the end of the day, we also need to respect the human being. And in line with that, I think that the world needs to help us stay accountable for how we treat our people and our justice system. Because as we come into a world that's a little bit more gray and irregular in what we, in how we fight and how we, you know, how conflict essentially is rooted in. What goes back to this is people looking at human rights and making human rights just as important as economic growth and protecting our territory. I think that all goes hand to hand. So, you know, if there's something that I think the Philippines and, and I think this region needs to see is how wonderful and how beautiful their people are. And if people could only see what an amazing life we live and we need to, you know, we need to protect, they'll understand why we'll fight so hard to keep it that way. Okay, you convinced me I might take it next one. I'm coming. Yeah, really? I am overdue. Carl Likers, there's so many more things we can discuss and I look forward to having you back on the end of Pacific Compass and Think Tech Hawaii. You're an incredible person and your mind is very, very fantastic. So thank you for your time and for the audiences. Thank you for watching and we'll be back next month. Thank you. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Check out our website, thinktechawaii.com. Mahalo.