 I would like to think that lessons have been learned because, my goodness, some lessons did need learning. I'm Scott Rouse, my body language expert and analyst, and I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation in body language. Mark? I'm Mark Bowden, expert in human behavior and body language, help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility, including leaders of the G7, Chase. Hey, I'm Chase Houston, 20 years in the U.S. military, wrote the number one best-selling book on behavior profiling, influence, and persuasion. Greg? Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance interrogation instructor, and I've written 10 books on body language and behavior. Today we're going to talk about Prince Andrew. He's in the news again because of his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, but mostly because of his relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell or Ghislaine, however you say your name. Greg, tell us about the videos we're going to see. Yeah, these videos are with Emily Maitlis back in 2019 and this is where he denies a lot of the things that he's now in trouble for and that just caused him to have all of his titles taken from him. The three things we're going to look at is he says that Epstein was not his friend, which is part of his defense. The second was I do not sweat, and the third one was I was in working and could not have been at Tramp's nightclub. He was your guest as well. In 2000, Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle and at Sandringham. He was brought right into the heart of the royal family at your invitation. But certainly at my invitation, not at the royal family's invitation, but remember that it was his girlfriend that was the key element in this. He was the plus one to some extent. Chase, what do you got? This video is a classic example of selling instead of telling and his behavior starts right away with the submissive interjection trying to get his point across in a submissive way, which this submissive behavior is very outside of his normal baseline. And when he says key element, this is indicative of the phrases somebody writes down or is briefed before a trial or deposition. And you see even more selling when he takes this confused look to share his uncertainty about the definition of a plus one, just so he can kind of get some agreement from the other person. This is backed up with this classic upward tone. And he even does a little of what Greg calls Tathy pulling, where he's kind of pulling her along to get some agreement there. And as a quick side note, if anybody's ever hung out with Epstein and then goes on TV and they don't talk about how repulsive that behavior is or how disgusted they are by it, that should be a gigantic red flag all on its own. And that should tell you almost all you need to know. That's all I got. Greg? Yeah, let's start with how poorly his message has aged. In the beginning, this message was about, I'm not Epstein's friend, I'm Galen's friend. Well, she's in prison now. So that didn't age well. And if he thought that was a great defense, he's in trouble for that. He alternates between confusion, that's these muscles in the middle gathering, and request for approval, holding his brow up as he tells the story. And Chase, you're right, he's pulling, he's trying to get that fishing thing going. He's fishing for approval. He makes way too much eye contact. And the reason the Tathy pulling thing happens is because you keep your eyes connected and turn your head. It's an odd kind of a request for approval. But yeah, his message certainly didn't age well. And this will be an interesting one. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so hang on, submissive. I mean, I went on the internet and I saw that it says, you know, if people are getting good eye contact, that means they're pretty positive. They're pretty confident. Well, that's true until it absolutely isn't. And in this case, it absolutely isn't. Chase is absolutely right there, of course. Because if you look at his baseline, what he tends to do in interviews where he's not on the hot plate and he's really able to play that status that he has at this point, which is Vice Admiral pretty high up in the Royal Navy there in and he's a Royal at the same time is he won't give any eye contact at all while he's listening to other people's questions. He won't give any eye contact at all while he's giving an answer. He'll just flash his eyes now and again to really put an emphasis on specific parts of his answer here. He locks a lot of eye contact, just as Chase says, he takes up space with that but but but he's literally fighting for his territory right now and that's displayed in the way he takes up space with his words and with his eye contact there. He is on the hot plate here and this is very out of character for him. Scott, what have you got on this one? I agree with you, Mark, wholeheartedly because what he's doing there at the top is he's using not only the trying to speak as a regulator, he's using the but but but he's also got that look of concern on his face. So in a way, he's using his expression and his words as a regulator. Regulators are the things you use to speed up or slow down a conversation or stop them and what those are usually done with your hands and sometimes with your head. But in this case, it's mostly facial expressions and what he's saying at that time. While he's doing this, his head goes down and starts guarding his neck because he feels I think he's he's he's under the impression there's going to be some stress here because he's not being honest about this as we know. And he keeps throwing out he throws the thing over to it like Greg was saying over to the to his girlfriend Galane and says he was just a plus one with her. So it's like and he separates himself from that from the the royal family when he does the illustrator coming in like this and then he says the royal family makes them bigger and away from him. So he knows he's got to separate himself from him because there's trouble there. He was your guest as well in 2000 Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle and at Sandringham. He was brought right into the heart of the royal family at your invitation. But certainly at my invitation, not at the Royal Family's invitation, but remember that it was his girlfriend that was the key element in this. He was the as it were plus one to some extent. Do you remember her? No, I have no recollection of ever meeting her. I'm almost in fact I'm convinced that I was never in tramps with her. There are a number of things that are wrong with that story. One of which is that is that I don't know where the bar isn't in tramps. I don't drink. I don't think I've ever bought a drink in tramps whenever I was there. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, you can't miss this one. The blink rate increase and then he progressively gets more amused with his answer that he's got an answer for this one. And he's got that request for approval that brow up. I almost in fact I am convinced. Yeah, okay. Well, he's navigating. He stutters through the beginning of this thing. I was never in Tramp. I don't know where the bar is. I don't think I ever bought a drink when I was at the bar. In effect is what he's saying. He has emotional eye accessing down to his right when he does break eye contact at one point. And then when he's saying, I don't know where the bar is. Look at his forehead. And if you have children, see the kid who spilled the chocolate milk telling you, no, it wasn't me. That is exactly the look right here. Chase, you've got a great chocolate milk story. And this is this one would be your kid trying to tell you that didn't happen. But you can't miss that all that self amusement, but the chin down to protect the throat forces that do lap his out. And it's just so noticeable in him. It's hard to hard to pass up. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, let me just touch base on that chin thing. We put our chin down to protect ourselves. And when we're in fear and keep in mind, this protected our ancestors. So anything that really protected our ancestors gets passed down and coded into our DNA. So that's why we have facial expressions and body language that all kind of matches up unconsciously. So we're seeing this unconscious response to fear here, and this upward tone, which I think he's just kind of transferring or selling his uncertainty to the other person. But the biggest thing in this clip is his blink rate. And blink rate refers to how often we're blinking. So we can go from like really slow or not very often to very often, quickly. And that's an indicator of stress with a high blink rate and low blink rate is relaxation or focus. The average in conversations about 15. And if somebody's really stressed out, their blink rate can be around the 50s. And in this particular video, his blink rate is around 91, which is an indicative of extreme stress and extreme mental processing, which is going on. And Greg, I think that is also hilarious. I don't drink. I don't think I bought a drink when I was at the bar. I don't know where it is. I guess great. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so this gaping mouth that we see at the start a bit like a fish. Now, it could be a number of things. Is it he's definitely under stress. I agree. You see it in the blink rate for sure. And so it could be him gaping to take in oxygen. It could be him doing his kind of butt, butt, butt, but silently, you know, or preparing his answer. I'm not quite sure which one it is. Either way, it's not good. Either way, it's not a good indicator, whatever it is. But I do want to bring out this upward inflection that he's got here. Just as Chase says there, there are some universals, some unequivocal universals in body language, that chin coming in, you know, we all have delicate areas here. All of us human beings on the planet are going to gravitate towards that under stress. Tonality can change culture to culture person to person. And so if we think about his cultural tonality, being from the Royal Navy, being somebody who is royal themselves, he's going to have a lot of command downward intonation when he's very, very certain of things. And we do see that in his baseline for sure. So why here are we getting so much upward intonation, as Chase pointed to their her story, where the bar is in tramps, I don't drink, ever bought a drink, where whenever I was there, all of those elements that he should be certain of, he's giving upward intonation, which means he's asking for approval or is uncertain himself, looking, looking for buy-in. Again, it could be any one of those or all of those, whatever it is, it's not good and it's way out of his baseline. So I don't like the look of it. Scott, what do you got on this one? This is the reason I hate going last, because everything gets covered. So I'll go back to the beginning of it and do something, just do about how he was talking about things. So the answer to this is no, I never met her, not no, and then what are called qualifiers, where you add things to make your story more believable because you don't believe it yourself because you know it's not true. Now, the great thing about this interviewer, when he gives an answer, she just waits, she just sits there and keeps looking at it and he keeps starting adding things and making them uncomfortable. So he starts adding these qualifiers that really don't mean anything. And he's just digging his hole deeper and deeper and deeper and making it harder to get out. When he says I've never bought it, I don't know where the bar is and I've never bought a drink. Mark and I, well, we've all talked about this, Mark's been there. It's not too hard to see the bar when you go in that place. Number one, no, that's number two and the number one, if you've never bought, if you've been to this place a lot and you never bought anybody a drink, whether it's a girl or one of your buddies or all your buddy, you're a cheap bola. You know, this is a prince. He's got all the money in the whole wide world. He's not bought one drink at this place. Give me a break. That's, I'm not buying that. And yeah, Chase is blink right. I actually got in there and in an eight second period there toward the top, it's 17 times in eight seconds. And I had so many, it was so fast, I had to slow it down and do it frame by frame to catch them all. And it was, and in that one section, that's 127.5 blanks per minute. And I just added that because you always add how much it is per minute. But in that small little section, that's a whole lot. That's all that, that's just going tic, tic, in his, we're fluttering. And that's a form of eye blocking as well. And we, we look away or we'll block our eyes. When we're, for example, you'll see that when people are here in a joke at work and they are not comfortable with it. And there are people around that will be embarrassed by the joke. You'll see a lot of times cover their eyes or people will close their eyes. And in this case, we're seeing him do that with this fluttering. I don't, I think at the same time, that's a combination of eye blocking and his brain trying to come up with, with an answer and to make his qualifiers even more shiny as it goes along. Do you remember her? No, I have no recollection of ever meeting her. I'm almost, in fact, I'm convinced that I was never in tramps with her. There are a number of things that are wrong with that story. One of which is that is that I don't know where the bar is in tramps. I don't drink. I don't think I've ever bought a drink in tramps. Whenever I was there. All right, we good? Yeah. Let's move. She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating and that she went on to have bath possibly. There's a slight problem with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I don't sweat or I didn't sweat at the time and that was, oh, is she? Yes. I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands war when I was shot at and I simply, it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And it's only because I have done a number of things in the recent past that I'm starting to be able to do that again. So I'm afraid to say that there's a medical condition that says that I didn't do it. So therefore. Wow. You know what the funniest part is? Go out and look. I sent Scott this picture when we were doing this. There's a picture of him leaving a club sweating like a pig. Oh, like a pig. Yeah, man. He's a fully. All right. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is one of my favorites so far. I don't sweat is his defense. Okay. Well, that's easily provable. And then he I think he even in the middle of it realizes that is easily provable. So he has to come up with some other reason why he would sweat now that he didn't then. So he goes about navigating and telling you well, only after taking some action recently. And when he says that he I blocks he I block specifically at that time. In the beginning he's uncomfortable. His chin's down. And that laugh is not a laugh of confidence. That's a laugh of Oh, and then he thinks he comes up with an answer swallows a couple of times. That's discomfort. And then he goes down this story about adrenaline. Too much adrenaline caused him to get to this point. Now I'm going to tell you I talk about Sierra lot in my seer days. We have pushed people to adrenal fatigue to the point that they ball up in the floor. I never saw anybody lose the ability to sweat as a result of that. Maybe I wouldn't mean enough. Don't know. But this is suspicious on the medical field side. Never mind. Just you can tell that he's not telling the truth. All those clusters go together. You don't trust this. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, there's so much in this that I just want to concentrate on one thing that kind of means the most to me and you can watch how it progresses. And that's when he's telling this story, how you're going to see his thumb creeping behind his index finger and then eventually get totally hidden in his hand there by the end of it. Now, just as Chase was talking about, you know, there are universal areas on our body that are universally vulnerable. Doesn't matter who you are, where you were born, who you were born to, what society or group you're part of, your joints are vulnerable. And if you've still got thumbs, okay, these thumb joints are so important. Because without that thumb joint working, you can't do opposable thumb pinching, and you can't do any kind of delicate work with your hands, which is why you have this big neocortex primarily. So you can do all of this stuff. So these joints get really protected under stress and pressure. You'll see people do that all the time, the thumb and the four finger keeping those covered up. He does this beautifully in that. And that alone, for me, because of the way it progresses, is a huge indicator that this story he is utterly unconfident around. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right, I agree with you 100%. At the beginning, he uses his hand again as a regulator, then as a barrier. As he's trying to shut, she doesn't even get to finish the question. He tries to shut her down. And it takes him 14 seconds to get to the part where he has a condition where he can't sweat, but if you don't. And so my dad's a doctor, and I asked him, I said, hey, what disease is it? What has happened where you don't sweat? What are the situations where that comes up? And he said, heat stroke. Would you have heat stroke? You sweat out as much as you can sweat out, and you're just, you're not going to be able to sweat anymore. I said, what else is there? And he said, nothing I can think of. I said, what about, you have a big adrenaline dump. What happens at that point? He said, no, that's not going to do it either. And he explained to me, there are different parts of the brain that handle the sweating part of what happens with your body compared to the things that, what happens when you, having an adrenaline dump. So that I would, there may be some kind of situation we're not aware of. Maybe some, you know, thyroid problem or something he's got. I don't know. I have no idea. But I don't think that's true at that point. In the beginning, everything is fairly big. And by the end of it, he's almost frozen. He's almost squatted down frozen. Mark and I are into comedy. I collect old comedians, autographs. Mark collects memorabilia from comedians and funny people. And one of the things that we both noticed right off the bat was this looks like a Ricky Gervais bet from something he's doing when he's lying, either a live thing, you know, one of his live shows or when he's on one of his shows that he's done and also look like a couple of things on there from the blackadder. You can see that as well on him. Maybe that's just a British thing. So why it looks like the blackadder when he's lying, but that's one of those things that instantly stuck out that show that he looked like a little child lying to me at that point. All right. Chase, what do you got? No, chase already went. No, you didn't. Okay, didn't go. So just quickly imagine that someone's reading a transcript to you and they're talking to another person. They say you're at this party or sweating all of these people you're drinking. There's an underage girl walking around in our underwear. And you say, or you hear the person say, no, no, there's a problem with that. And it's with the sweating. And nothing else is denied. Nothing else is denied. So there's no denial. It's a redirection. It's a non-answer. It's not answering the question. He goes back to focusing on these minutiae that are insignificant as if the underage people are not an issue, but the sweating is somehow a crime that he needs to defend himself against. And then he borrows authority. He's borrowing authority from his military career, kind of redirecting the story of the Falklands war. And this lack of sweat ability is called anhydrosis. It's usually, most of the time it's medication reactions or some kind of genetic inheritance and extremely rare cases to my knowledge and in my education. This happens mostly in animals that if they are attacked, the receptors are receiving too much of adrenaline or epinephrine and they start to downregulate it, which is almost never the case from what I've researched. That's all I got. She was very specific about that night. She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating and that she went on to have bath possibly. There's a slight problem with the sweating because I have a peculiar medical condition which is that I didn't sweat at the time and that was, oh, is she? Yes. I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands war when I was shot at. And I simply, it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And it's only because I have done a number of things in the recent past that I'm starting to be able to do that again. So I'm afraid to say that there's a medical condition that says that I didn't do it so therefore. Oh no, I think Greg froze. He froze. Check it out. Oh my lord. Are you frozen enough? I'm suspicious. No, he's frozen. Oh yeah, he's frozen. So we wait on him. Well, let's go around and come back to him and just look at him so it's his turn. All right, so let's throw it around the room and we'll all wrap it up and we'll go with Mark, Jason, Greg. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, the biggest thing for me is that this is totally outside of his authority behavior baseline. So he's, as Greg might say, on the griddle here. This is a real worm on the griddle for him, though you might see still some levels of authority compared to how he'd normally be totally outside the baseline. That alone means some things going on here outside of the ordinary for him. Chase. Yeah, this whole video is about a sales pitch and it's not about facts. It's not about there's no certainty and there's no denials here that are confident or firm denials. And anytime we're watching any video, one of the first things I look at is that person's level of control over themselves in that interview. That's the first thing I personally look for. How in control of themselves are they? And we see this is he is wildly out of control because he's wildly separated from his normal behavior. Greg. Yeah, I think Mark, he missed his chance to be credible by simply not saying that never happened. That's all he had to say and move on to the next topic, not try to over explain. And you can see even when we are using this interview as a baseline, the deviations we see from it, when it gets a hot topic, you can see the difference. You see that chin protection, that's pretty universal. We talk about very few things being universal, but then you see him using a little bit of chaff and redirect and lots of other ways to avoid answering the question. It surely looks like deception. Scott, what do you have? Yeah, this is just, it's a great example of a bad attempt at lying because he goes through every cue you can just about nail in deception. We're seeing him here. And in our regular video, I wonder what this is like two hours long. We have a version of this. Go watch that. You'll see everything in it. But in this, we're just hitting some hot spots. But it's just a great example of someone who's being deceptive and we know he's being deceptive at this point. And I think it's just a great example all around for that. All right, things are good and fellas, and we'll see you next time. Thanks.