 Hi, good afternoon everybody. Thank you for joining us for another edition of Condo Insider. And today I'm really telling your host and today we have Harold with and Nathan, they're both condo specialists with the real estate branch of DCCA. So they have lots of years of experience with them under their belt. So we were kind of the subject that we're going to talk about today is when you make a request or an inquiry into your, either your condo board or even the managing agent, because there seems to be a lot of complaints or concerns. I know I get a lot of emails and complaints about people not responding. So we want to kind of talk about like, you know, like give everybody a chance to respond. You don't need to give a reasonable amount of time to people to respond to your request, whether it be email or phone call. But so what would be if if for the both of you, if a homeowner makes an inquiry to the property manager and they're making like a simple request, maybe something about their, probably the most common would be their maintenance fees. Like maybe they're late or letting them know that they're going to make a payment or maybe they want to know what their balance is. What would you think would be or what would you say would be a reasonable time period for that property manager or someone within that company to respond back to that email or even that telephone call? I'd like to thank you for inviting us today. We appreciate it very much. And I think one of the things that helps understand what you're talking about today where it appears that the board is not responsive or the managing agent is not responsive. There's a couple of basic concepts that are really important to condominium living. And the first one of course is to remember that the legislature drafted the statute, the condo act, self enforced basically. So that's really important. And the statute itself doesn't cover every single instance of what can happen in a condo. We look to it for guidance, but it doesn't cover, you know, every single situation. And I think then common sense rather kick in, you know, remembering that all of the owners are members of the association and they elect other owners either board and that board, they may be even their neighbors on the board. So I think it's keep in mind that, you know, acting, you know, mature adult in a little manner is very helpful in this context. And then I think finally one of the basic concepts, too, is the fact that you certainly need to have understanding of the role of the board and then the role of the managing agent. Because the role of the board is like basically to do the business of the board, as you say, requesting documents, whatnot. And the board itself can only act as a whole. So if you feel like you've made a request for documents, but you know, you're standing in the elevator next to somebody happens to be a director, you know, on a Friday night, that there are better ways to handle that kind of situation and thinking that you've actually made a request. In addition, a lot of the managing agents, you know, they're vendors, they're under contract. And they're contracted to do various things. So sometimes it may not be the managing agent that has the ability or authority to do those things. But then you need to go back again to the topic of the board. But that's like the best practice when we have kinds of situation trying to get information is to make sure you're asking the right person or the right entity. And if you don't know, then ask that person or entity, well, who do I ask? How do I get this information? That's, you know, one kind of tip whenever you do, because you would do that. Anyway, if you called up, you know, if I had a car company about something and they say, oh, you know, you're calling the wrong department, you know, here, we'll get to a referral to another department. And then also, whether the information actually this, and then the availability of the information. If there is an issue, I think the best thing to do this is to keep a written record of your request, not just verbal request, and also, you know, be reasonable about it. You know, asking, you know, the director having to be an elevator on a Friday night or three day waiting, and you want it by the morning, you know, it's a business standard. It's not really reasonable to do that. And then ask your, you know, question, you know, in general, of course, the first, since the statute doesn't necessarily say, you know, what's a simple inquiry, or what is a reasonable inquiry, or, you know, timelines, it's not that specific. First place I would always tell someone is, you know, check your governing document. If there's something in there that, you know, set forth a procedure, some sort of, you know, board resolution or procedure. And if not, you know, reasonable business because the statute itself, the only time it adjusts is requests for information in general is under the association responsibilities, basically, that if there's going to be a charge or providing requested information, then the association has to notify the unit owner at least 10 days prior to incurring the cost. But other than that, the statute is actually silent. So I would say, you know, going back to the best business practice. So I mean, I mean, I'm in a business and even a lot of my associates, whether they work in different industries or what, I mean, we've had this conversation before with, you know, whenever we've talked, you know, and everybody seems to come up with like, I give myself at least 24 to 48 hours to reply. And, you know, and they say that they even tell me that they tell people if I don't reply within that time frame, send me another email to remind me, you know, was talking to a the office manager at one condo and they have like over 2,000 units and I go, how do you handle that? And she said that she, you know, checks her email daily. And then she also goes into the percent folder to make sure she did the replies, you know, but sometimes it's not something that she can respond to because it would be maybe like the general manager has to respond or the president has to respond or something like that. But oftentimes she'll have to chase them down. So I always tell people, I said it depends on what what you're asking for. If it's something really complicated, yeah, you might have to give them give them like 48 hours. If you don't have a response, send another request, you know, second request, I'm just, you know, asking for this again, in case you lost the email. I mean, I've done that. It just gets kind of buried in that sea of emails you get every day. And and it can happen. So sometimes you have to do like sometimes I'll say, okay, just a brain tickler, just a reminder, I'm requesting this information again, you know, but it's not where, to me, it's not where the sender of the email is like, to me, it's unreasonable for them to expect an immediate response. Not everybody just sits at their day responding to emails. They've got appointments throughout the day. They've got properties that they got to be on site with. And some of these property managers are working at night because they have board meetings to attend to. So my rule of thumb is always telling Michael, give them a reasonable time period. You know, 24 hours to me, sometimes it's not reasonable. And even for a property manager, sometimes they need to scan their emails. I mean, I've actually gotten a little bit more detailed in my subject, where I'll ask whatever I want, I'll put it in the subject line. Because it's easier for them to scan, you know, like scan their emails by the subject. And sometimes I get a faster response, you know, depending on what the question is, but it's sometimes you get a little bit of a faster response and how you format the email request. So what what happened if after after you've done the first request, the second request, and it's like, it seems like you're being totally ignored, you know, you've done a phone call to follow up saying, Hi, I sent you an email, you know, on this date, I sent another email on this date, I'm still not getting a response. What does what does the condo specialist of DCCA recommend to a homeowner in those situations? One thing I would like to point out too, and I'm sure data try about stated, there is one part of the statute that is much more specific. And that's when the request information involves actual documents. Now there, the statute is very thorough, has several sections dealing with it, makes clear what documents to be available, and what documents need to be provided. And that in that case, there is sort of a ruler that you go by. And they typically it's like, you know, 15 days for minutes, and basically 30 days for, you know, everything else. So that is, I think a good guideline as far as, you know, bonding. Well, I think it's going to be easier and for those kind of things, because like a social is now in town square, Hawaiian properties is on town square. I'm not sure about Hwayana. I think they're on town square. So a lot of the documents now, now are online. As long as you log in and set up your account, you know, but so some of those, I want to say frequently asked ones are pretty much being posted. Because before you had to request them or pay the arm and a leg through documentary even get those documents. But now it should be a little bit easier. But if they're asking for something that really is not your standard document to be posted, like that is posted and available for everybody to see, you know, you know, like, I know everybody always asks for the managing agents or not the management. Well, what could be the managing agents contract or one of the other ones that I always hear people ask for is the employee employment contract. I'm like, why do you want that for? But, you know, and they go, well, we'll know how they pay. I go, really, you really don't need to look at the contract. We'll get your financials. I mean, you know, there's other ways to get the information if you know how to get it, you know, but they make a big deal out of it, you know, even though you tell them, look, it's in the financials, your board member or homeowner, it's in your financials, it's in the budget, right? You know, so what if it's something that they just are not getting a recent, I mean, a decent response from anybody? Well, I would say, and basically, please, you know, add to this, but we, the Real Estate Commission is very much in support of alternative resolution. So if you have taken all of the, you know, reasonable necessary patience steps, and still there's, there's an issue, the Real Estate Commission provides subsidized mediation through different kinds of mediation, as well as, you know, that doesn't quite work out for the evaluators, then moving on to alternative voluntary binding arbitration, which again is subsidized, you can fact that one up to $1,000. So the commission is very carefully adhered to the vendors, mediators and arbitrators, and it's all published on the website. And so, and it's all done directly, you know, by the parties. The, if it's like a homeowner requesting mediation, and, you know, the certain topics known as the viral extirations, that sort of thing, it is a shallow rule. And we, you know, they have both facilitative and evaluative mediation. But, you know, as a practical matter, like we talked about a little bit earlier, I mean, these are owners, these are your neighbors. Wouldn't you rather go to mediation and establish lines of communication, rather than fighting all the time and glaring at each other, you know, in the stairwell? You know, it's there, and it's subsidized, handle completely outside of the office. You know, the owner has the issue, contacts the mediator directly, they set it all up, care of it, and they send the real estate commission to the bill. I think it's really the most civilized, you know, best way to handle these sort of things. What do you think of the mediation, Jason? Yeah, I think that's a good method. It doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Sometimes, I don't know if that's nice, sometimes a mediator has to nudge someone into realizing that maybe what the request is not reasonable, or nudge the board into nudging them to realize that their behavior is not really acceptable. And that's kind of where the mediation is supposed to go. It may not result in the outcome of the party as it wants, but it should result in outcome that both parties better understand the situation they're in and how it's supposed to be. You may not be able to punch through some of the emotional charge, just issues that people have that are kind of maybe clouding some of the more rational judgment. But it is a better stance of getting them to the point where they understand how this is supposed to work in association, and maybe hopefully push them to be more reasonable. I did want to go back to something else that the Conalogue does discuss a number of hind frames, but they're generally like ceilings, like you have to respond by a document by this time, you have to be done by this point in time, proxy notices by a certain time. Those are very, very specific. There isn't a general clause for if you get a request from a homeowner, you have to respond by this regardless of what it is. And sometimes many agents, they don't have any of that power whatsoever. Some of them are just literally hired to do like three things. So we actually have a brochure on our website that details who does what generally and who you should be looking at for certain responsibilities. So you wouldn't ask your insurance agent to help you fix the water pipes, right? Like literally go plummet. You can go ask the plumber to fix the plumbing. So we kind of realize that a lot of people may not really understand what each role these people have. So we made a brochure on it, and it's on our website really available. But back to your reasonable comment. Yes, I think we should be reasonable about their time frames. I mean, certain things are more problematic than others. They like you have a massive water pipe break. If a gas leak, that's, there's the, you should get a response quickly. But if you're, say you have a complaint against your upstairs neighbor for like a 15 noise violation, and that may be only a couple of people here, it's a little less, it's a little less reasonable to assume that their manager is going to get on it immediately. You kind of need to think like if I was in their shoes, how would I respond to 2,000 people having all issues, right? You have to be be a little less egocentric, perhaps, and put yourself into these of what is this person's role, what else they're dealing with, and how important is my personal request. Okay, so what if someone is, you know, like, let's go back to like they requested a certain whatever document, and they're, they're not getting a response at all, even all the attempts, and now what, what is the, what is the role of RICO? RICO is the Regulated Industries Complaints Office, and they are part of the Department of Commerce and Human Affairs, as are we. Basically, they are both the investigative and prosecutorial branch, or agency area department, for DCCA. Certain of the statutes, just as the document's one that we were talking about a little earlier, they specifically have the power to handle this and from my understanding, anecdotally, they're very successful. In fact, they have a complaint form on their website, possibly on ours, that is specifically for documents. And so when you have that form, it's best to be very factual. And again, we talked about a little earlier about having something in writing, so you can fill out the form and say such a such date, you know, I emailed or I texted, two weeks later such a such date, I did this, you know, they have not responded to me. And at least in my experience, they seem to act very quickly on these things, and have a very high rate of resolution in acquiring, you know, but as long as it's, you know, allowed under the statute of acquiring the information Who is the director now of Rico used to be Daria, I think she's moved around, I believe. When last I talked to Daria, I remember she said no one has ever said no to document quest once Rico steps in. But they do require you to provide documentation at least I believe it's two or three attempts. And I remember I remember her saying that because she wants to see the paper trail of your attempts, you know, once you see like the emails, logs when you call, how many times we write some letters to show that you actually did attempt to get the documents on your own and you're trying to be reasonable. But should that fail, even big Rico will take your documents and move relatively quickly. And again, like Daria said, she said, she's not remembered a single association that said no once once Rico gives the call. Well, you know, unfortunate that has to get to that point, you know. But hopefully now, with mostly most of the associations going to Town Square, that software platform, you know, the documents, in the very beginning, I remember one had posted the board packet. And I had all the delinquencies of that I go, I don't think you're supposed to post those. I want to reconsider take those off. But but I but I seen it. And I think a lot of some of the majority, maybe the majority of those documents, little fights might hopefully will disappear. You know, because even if it was something that I mean, and it should be something that the resident manager should be able to pull up for a homeowner as well, you know, the challenging part might be for the homeowners that are aging and they need it. Because I know for my work, I've come across problems with with getting some certain documents for that lender's need, you know, actually been refused to get certain documents. So I'm like, but we had to go, you know, circle around different ways just to get the document that we but hopefully now that issue will be that condo doc issue will be a little bit less of a burden that it's been in the past with the software platform. I mean, I know I know when I was at one condo that I owned condo docs, we just printed a bunch of copies and this is before email, you know, so we just like had 10 sets always, including house rules. I said print as many copies as you can. And, you know, and I heard one condo say, well, they need to pay for it. I go, that's a little crazy because if you want them to follow the house rules, why do you want to make it hard by making them pay for a copy of the house rules, give it out for free. You want them to comply, you know. So I always tell them to post it everywhere that you can, and they can just log on online, you know, and just at least see it. They don't have to print it, but at least they can visibly see it on their phone or on their tablet or computer. One thing about the house rules, though, is if you, when you change them, you have to let people know, and if you're encouraging them to know about the changes you made, then it makes it harder for them to do what you enforce in them than to know it. So it really behooves associations when you do a house rule change to make them as easy as possible again to then be able to enforce it reasonably. But isn't there a review period for the house rule changes, right? There is. There is. Right. But at the same time, if you want people to know about them and then you can make a force one, then the follow it, making it hard for them to get it just to make any sense. I mean, if it was my website, I would be, this is the revised effective of as a state, and that's after it's been reviewed, after it's been already gone through all the approvals, but and even letting them notice, and then the effective date out in the future, like 30 days out, you know, that would be the better way rather than just uploading it and posting effective now. You know, that's kind of, I mean, that's a little bit unreasonable or unfair. Notice always good. Yeah. I mean, even 30 days notice is everybody time to read it. And, you know, I've told my condo, I go, you need to print and hand deliver it to every single door. And also, there's property managing agents like around the corner, I said, and they manage quite a few, I go deliver several to them as well, so that they have it on their file or new prospective people. So I think we're going to bring close to our end. Any other last comments? Well, I think property managers should be aware if they do have the authority to, you know, be doing these, you know, transactions that Rico really does mean business. They do have the ability, you know, to bring charges and have regarding this particular area, you know, which is then adjudicated by the real estate commission, but I did not note that. It's important to bring charges. Yeah. So it's important that everybody, you know, shoulders their responsibility and it takes care of business. I mean, it should be transparent as much as allowed by law. And I don't think people should be afraid, you know, like doing hide the marvel or something, you know, the, you know, the others are entitled to this information in a reasonable manner. So please, you know, this is a lot of my law. Right. Right. Right. Jason, any last comments? Yeah, if you feel like your board is just completely not helping you at all and I respond to anything else. And it's a long history of this. You're probably not the only person they're not responding to. And that kind of leads you down the path of, hey, we'll talk to the owners who feel that we need leadership change. And there is always the option to remove one board member has been done. I think the, what was the high rise above one of the YKK. They kicked out their entire board in one meeting and replaced them all in one day. Really? So it could be done. Wow. That's that one meeting. Wow. Wow. Well, they are so fed up with me just leaving all out. It could be done. It has been done. And if you feel that your board is, you have lots of problems. They're just not responding. They're not doing what their job and mismanaging things. You just got to motivate, organize with a little members of your association and boot them out. And I know sometimes it can be difficult, but it can be done. Okay. So I think we're near our time. So I think our, your DCCA website address should be showing up on all the screens pretty shortly. But I want to thank you both, Nathan and Carol for joining me today. And I think we have another topic coming up on December 2nd that I sent some information about. All of a sudden I'm like on this like consumer education kind of a thing, homeowner education, making sure they understand these things because I've been hearing a lot of complaints and just, you know, people, I don't know if it's pandemic because everybody's got nothing better to do. I don't know, but it's just been like, all of a sudden all these, all these complaints coming in through our emails. And I'm like, man, there's more volume than I ever seen before, you know? So thank you so much. And I really, really appreciate the work that you guys do, all the volume of phone calls that you get every day. And explaining and education that you have to do repeatedly every day to everybody that calls it. I really appreciate your efforts in doing that and being patient and dealing with, especially your brand new homeowners. Thank you again. And I'll see you guys the next time. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you very much.