 Former President Lucia Gond Bassinger has denied claims that he hates the people of the Niger Delta origin. He said this in an open letter to respond to accusations by the leader of the Pan-Niger Delta Forum and chairman of the Board of Trustees, Ijo National Congress Chief Edwin Clark. Clark had previously slammed Bassinger over what he called a disappointing display of hatred of the people of the oil-producing states in Nigeria, while joining us to break that down and discuss it is public affairs analyst Sonny Maduka, Niger Delta right activist Ankyl Briggs and legal practitioner Tamino Williams. Thank you very much gentlemen and lady. Happy holidays. Thank you very much for having me. Happy holidays. All right, so let's go into the conversation. Let's just dive right in. This has become a war of wards of sorts between the elder statesman and of course former President Lucia Gond Bassinger. I'd like to quickly pick one of the most interesting things that he pointed to. He said that the former president talks tough and insists on resources found in any state being something that belongs to the entire country, but then he keeps mum over the issue of gold in Zamfara state. So Ms. Ankyl Briggs, I'd like for you to start with that because I know that this is a sore point for the people of the Niger Delta. Yes, thank you for having me again. Well, I mean Chief E.K. Clark expressed the feelings of the people of the Niger Delta region. It's an ongoing irritation. It's not just on your passenger, we've had this over and over again, but yes, definitely when you begin to behave in the way and say the things that a passenger said, and I was on that program, actually, I was a participant on that program. He came late to the program. The gentleman, the secretary of the John National Congress was expressing the position of the jobs and he started banging on the table and shouting literally just behaving very on statements like on elderly like and with really just boils down to the fact that the Niger Delta people and particularly the jobs feel very agree by of us and Joe. Let's not forget that he destroyed OD. He completely destroyed OD in the year 2000 and killed thousands of people in the quest of looking for people that had killed policemen. Yes, we that that was the issue at that time that to raise down a whole community because you're looking for seven youths that over and above the call of of of what he was supposed to do. So yes, I agree with Chief E.K. Clark that we feel that Obasan Joe has a very special place in his heart for hating a job people and demanding that what is in the ground belongs to all Nigerians and he even went as far as what did you ever do to to bring what was there? What did you do to put it there? It was just very disrespectful to a whole people and very irritating that he can't do that in Zanfarah and so many other places where people are minding resources that belongs to Nigeria as he claims. Let me come to you, Doctor. I will come back to you, Miss Briggs, because I'm more interested in knowing why you think that there's that hatred. But Doctor Madoka, you obviously don't have a dog in this fight, but there are parts of the southeast that have oil. And we know that as we speak, the southeast is feeling the pinch of having the short end of the stick. So but again, in this issue, you might not necessarily have a dog in the fight, but do you necessarily agree that the former president hates the Niger Delta people or he was just making a case as to the fact that maybe the people in the Niger Delta have a sense of entitlement of sorts and that's why he reacted the way he did. Let me start from every leader in Nigeria. Every leader in Nigeria always loves the Niger Delta region. They are not in the love of the people of the Niger Delta. There's a difference between loving a region and loving a people. So as I'm just saying, it is not a new thing. All of them love the Niger Delta because of the resources. So not because they love the people. Because if they love the people, they will have known what the people are suffering right now. Let me give you some examples. If for us, I just say the love of the people or the Niger Delta. Who are those people at the hem of our favorite NMPC today? Are they Niger Deltas? Who are those at the board of Niger Deltas? Are they Niger Deltas people? If you look at the percentage of those people who own the oil blocks, 99% of them are outside Niger Deltarians. So as I'm just saying that, oh, I love Niger Delta. I'm just wondering, do you love them because of their coupon wealth, because of the resources they have? But in actuality, people are dying of pollution. People are dying because their means of livelihood is being eroded. People are dying of just recently, we hear of another milk at River State. So what are the states, what are the government doing? Yeah, they love it. You see, when Nigerians talk, especially the leaders, when they tell you that Nigeria is indispensable, it's indispensable, there's nothing nice they are talking about the Niger Delta. That's the only thing that's keeping Nigeria together, not nice. Most of the leaders are able to say, oh, because Niger Deltas are suffering, let's do something for the Niger Deltas. I give you an instance in Canada, when the great people decide to say, look, enough is enough. There was a consensus, there was a national conference where they say, okay, look, we have seen your suffering, let's see what we can do. But all that I know of, that Clare was talking about, look, it's time for you people to look at Niger Delta and not just on the rhetorics, on practical ability. As of today, Niger Delta is nothing but to OBJ, the golden egg, or taffan, be for national commonwealth. Okay. But everything about Niger Delta is assumed to be nationalized, just like he mentioned. It's not least and further, that has good. We have a lot of mineral resources in the North. How many of them have been able to come into the mainstream to be apportioned as national treasure or a national resource? I will come back to you to push your father on that issue of our wealth and resources found in the different regions of this country. But we're being joined by Dr, by Barista Tamino Williams. Barista Tamino, you obviously have a dog in this fight. You're from the Niger Delta. I'd like to backpedal a bit. Just like Dr Maduka has said, nothing really in his words have been done for the Niger Delta. And he's saying that Chief Clark is asking that the government pay attention to the people in the Niger Delta. I want to go back to the fight for the people of the Oguni Kingdom by Ken Sarawira. We know how he passed. We also know that this administration, I'm talking about the Bahá'í administration, promised that they were going to make the issue of the cleaning up of the Oguni Axis because of the oil spill by Shell. They were going to make it front and center. As we speak, I do not know what the situation of things are. Do you necessarily think that maybe our leaders are only paying lip service to the Niger Delta for what it can get from it? And again, what about the people of the Niger Delta? Are they doing enough to get the attention of the government or to ... And I'm not talking about violence here. I'm talking about peaceful ways of getting the government to keep their words and their promises to the Niger Delta. My take on the matter may be slightly different from the two earlier speakers. Look, Nigeria is not the only country in the world. Okay? And before Nigeria became a country, we have other people who have been emulated. My gentleman talked about Canada. Look at America. Look at Singapore. Look at Germany. Look at Russia. You see, Nigeria is one of the funniest places where people come and express views that they don't even believe in. Now, let me take the first point. For Obasinger, former military ruler, first of former, second in command to Motala, then head of state, then he became president. He chose a successor in Yeradua. After Yeradua, he chose Jonathan. After Jonathan, he supported Buhari. Obasinger has literally chosen almost all the leaders who had led Nigeria. Now, the common denominator is that from my perspective, from what I've read of him, he does not have any clear empirical developmental vision that is organic and genuine. Now, let me break it down. For any country to develop, it's not their resources. A country development is underpinned by the capacity of the citizens. Okay? Even if you bring $10 trillion into Nigeria Delta, the place will not develop. It's not about Obasinger. The Nigeria Delta people have a picture of development which tend to look as if its resources is money. It's not money. NDC will have developed Nigeria Delta, okay? You have a Nigeria Delta business authority, it will have taken it off. The problem of Nigeria Delta is not about money, it's not about resources, it's about the people's organic philosophy. Look, I have been a local government chairman. You can go and ask in Ocraca for three years. Of the three years I was suspended for about four months. As I speak now, you can take a media talk of what I did, community by community, village by village, world by world. As I speak, I live in my quiet house with 30 policemen. Look, Obasinger hates Nigeria Delta, it's not the news and it's of no consequence. Now, coming to an elder statement, a clerk, look, elder clerk had had his own penalty shot. Let me take you back to the UEFA Champions League where Terry took the penalty. He had been a minister, he had been a father. The question would be all these years, what people has he groomed? What philosophy has he entrenched so that when he's no longer there, do we have that unity of purpose, that vision, that philosophy? I think we don't have it. I'm coming to that point. Now, generally speaking, Japan does not have really issue of natural resources. Are you aware? Even the water the drink is imported after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but Japan is developing. So our problem is not Obasinger does not like us, he can, he may not like us, we don't need him to like us. We don't like ourselves, sorry, we don't like ourselves as Niger Delta's. Then entrench a philosophy of development. Look, enough resources have been given to us over the years. By can tell you, we have nothing to show. You have the Amnesty program. So much when we were sunk in the Amnesty program. The program was not designed to bring our boys to become entrepreneurs. People went in there and developed themselves. Today the boys are still back with skills that are now applicable. Interesting. Interesting that you went there by Sir Williams, but just hold on. I'm going back to, I'm tossing back to Ankyo Briggs. This is something that you watch directly with the Amnesty program. I want to put it straight to you because it's something, it's a position that he's taking. He's saying that the people of the Niger Delta, if I'm quoting him rightly, might be the problem and not necessarily the leaders. What's your take? First of all, let me make a very quick correction. My activities with the Amnesty program is purely based on the fact that I was amongst others that definitely made sure that peace came to the, to the region by making sure that they then amped agitators from Bielsa to Delta State to River State, the people that brought the economy of Nigeria to their knees in the Crete were made or convinced that it was time to come out so that Nigeria could have an opportunity to, to keep to the promises that Yardua was making at that time. But my involvement therefore was not part of participating either in training or in running the program or whatever. Yes, I was a key participant in making sure that our people came out of the Creeks. Having, having said that, look, so have they come out of the Creeks? That's the question because he's saying that nothing has really changed. Well, of course they came out, of course they came out of the, of course they came out of the Creeks. But somebody like my brother is now a king, a Taka, a king, a Taka Tom, he was in the Creeks, deep inside the Creeks, but today he's in Okochiri, he's, he's, he's a king, is sitting on the throne. So, of course they came out, people came out of the Creeks, but the point is that there is no doubt that people in politics have failed Nigerians across Nigeria, but I will restrict myself to the Niger Delta region. The politicians in the Niger Delta are more different from politicians in any other place in Nigeria. We have wrong people doing wrong things in the name of politics in Nigeria. It's not, it's not specifically restricted to the, to the Niger Delta region. Now, when we talk about the NDDC, the NDDC was as a direct result of education that I also was part of, that Oba Senjo created the Niger Delta Development Commission for the nine oil bearing states at that time. Now, when you create a commission and then you are in total control of that commission and you are the one deciding politically who are the people that are going to run that commission and you're owing the commission and the whatever monies you claim to be given allocated to the commission in the budget is actually only on paper that you have already broken the legs of that commission. They are the people controlling the commission. The commission is controlled from Abuja. The commission is controlled politically. I'm not a politician. I'm not going to go into politics. Can I quickly just, can I quickly just come in there and talk about owning the commission? Where's Professor Ponday? He's from the Niger Delta. Definitely. Oh, definitely. He's from the Niger Delta. Can we be blaming Abuja and the center for Professor Ponday's issue? The issue that has been appointed has been appointed from the Niger Delta or at least from the oil producing states from people like Bonilla Mugotuku all the way down, that the reality is who is appointing them and on what purpose are they appointing them? You cannot appoint people that have failed in government elections that have failed in senatorial elections. You now compensate them in the name of NGDC and come back and blame the Niger Delta people for not holding the people accountable, holding who accountable, who held Abasenjo accountable? Abasenjo was owing. Abasenjo refused to pay the total money due at the time it was due to the NGDC. People should find out how much money is owed to NGDC. Today, look at what is happening. We are in a government today that has handled the NGDC worse than any other government has handled the NGDC. Look, the failure of development of the Niger Delta region is a strategic failure, is a planned failure, the issue of developing the Niger Delta region cannot be done from Abuja. It can only be done by the people of the Niger Delta from the Niger Delta. And we can only do that with our resources, not by resources that people take from us and pretend to give. You can't take what is mine and give it back to me and tell them that I have been given to us. Given to us for what? Is my money? Are you giving it to me? Okay. All right. Let me, because of time, I want to make sure I get everybody's input. Back to you, Doctor. She's made an interesting point. And we've delved into the NGDC issue that you brought up, that I wanted to push you back, push back on. But let's talk about the sincerity, because she's also touched on that, that you cannot develop the Niger Delta from Abuja. You cannot try to change certain things without using the people in those areas. But again, I go back to Professor Ponday, and the likes of the former governor of Aqaiba Manus, former senator Ghaswilak Mabil, we've seen all of these people who are supposedly leaders in the Niger Delta, who would be the same governors who would be complaining at the center about how these issues are being dealt with. But when they get to those offices, we do not necessarily see them trying to develop the Niger Delta. Are Nigerians the root cause of their own problems, just as the legal practitioner had mentioned in the beginning? First of all, Nigerians are our home problem, we are our problem. Like the lady said, the major problem we have in these countries is structural. You can't just bring out a project without giving out the process and the procedure. Most of the time we wake up only to hear a project that has been inaugurated in Nigeria without proper feasibility study. That's a problem we have. Nigerians need to go back to the drawing board. For instance, we've been talking about accountability in Nigeria. How many of us can talk to Abuja and say, look, so-so a man had been given to you, what have you been using that money for in Niger Delta? So the problem is that we have two-way problems. The problem from the leaders who don't care and who are using the deformed constitutional authority, or you can talk it deformed structure to rape the people. In any how you want, then the other way is the people who are so docile to ask for accountability from their leaders. So at the end of it, we end up blaming one another. So the Nigerian system is a lot about blaming. We're not looking at the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem by this NDC is that somehow the people are pointed there and not supposed to be even look at government charming. The people that are pointed there are just political appointees. They don't care. They steal the people's money and nobody can go and talk to them. I'm sorry, you cannot say that a political appointee does not care. His job is to deliver on the functions or whatever he's called to do in that office. So I do not know if they do not care or it's just that the person who appoints them does not care for feedback. I will tell you, alternatively, 90% of our political appointees are there for their own in Sumaki Factory. Just like the chairman said, how many of them could be able to point out what they've done? I am here in the village here. I'm just looking around part of the NDC. I'm looking at what and what have NDC done for my state. And if you look at it, I've been able to check and know how much I've gotten to other states as part of NDC. And what have these money gone to and nobody can challenge the authority because the police, the security agents are with them. So we are here in a system where these fitters kill the weakest. So that is the problem. Our constitution has a problem. We need to go back to drawing board. And I think that was what Clark was drawing OBJ into. Let's go back and look at where we have met up. See how we can correct all the imbalances. You cannot come to my house and collect all my resources. And then you give me a pinout. And in that pinout, you are telling me not to talk. You've slapped me even with my resources. And you tell me not to talk. Nobody can do that. It's only a slave that can do that. We're not slaves. NDC, Niger Delta, and Nigeria's. We should be treated equally as Nigerians. You cannot tell me that. All the 20 appointees in the management authority of NPC are all neuterans. What are you talking about? That's a whole kettle of fish and it's own. That's a discussion for another day. No, Niger Delta people, I can't hear them NPC. So these are the problem. Well, doctor, that's a conversation for another day. But finally, because we're almost out of time, by the terminal Williams, let's look at the legal perspective here. One of the things that, of course, the other statement was also pointing to is going back to restructuring, talking about original governments and all of that. But the question I always ask is, are we just talking about it from a political perspective or are we really, really sincere about going back to that? And if we do go back to it, how ready are we to deal with it? Because some people will say, well, we did it very well back in the day. But this is 2021. If we revert to that, how realistically can we accomplish it? Now, from the legal perspective, law essentially is supposed to engineer the kind of society that people want. Law does not bring about development. It's the aspiration of the citizens, the people. Now, our constitution, the one we're working with now, of course, it evolved from 1979. From 1960 to 1960, this is a trade that was an entrenched principle of derivation, where 50% of resources goes to the people who own it. Okay? And at that time, of course, our elders this month later, properly encapsulated that the West and the North were able to develop. Now, a lot has changed. A lot has changed. Today, our leaders, our followers, even our children, they have a different philosophy. They have a Puccaneal philosophy. They want something now, here, and immediately, it's a microwave error. So what law, what are you going to change? President Jonathan had a conference to discuss this. So my solution is, law essentially cannot cure our problem. The current constitution, if well-followed, can deliver. Today, governments have 13% derivation, okay? And the governments are accountable to the people. We have to go, right? As I speak to you, okay, we can't talk of one single project that NDC has done in Ocraca that can bring about sustainable development. So my solution is that, look, we need to sit down together, have a proper assessment of where we are, where we were, and where we want to go to, that discussion, and leading to a new dawn. Unfortunately, I'm so sorry to cut you off, but this is the most we can take. I want to thank you very much public affairs analysts, Sunny Madhukla, Niger Delta rights activist, Ankyl Briggs, and legal practitioner, Tamino Williams. Thank you so much, lady and gentlemen, for being part of the conversation. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right, well, we want to thank you all for being part of the conversation tonight. We hope you enjoyed yourself, but we'll leave you with a clip in memory of the late anti-apartheid icon at Bishop Desmond Tutu. I am Mary Anacone. Have a good evening. Thank you.