 Welcome to the Monday, April the 1st April Fool's Day Meeting of the material design review committee. I will let committee members and staff introduce themselves Hannah Smith is Pritchett Meredith Crandall staff Stephen Everett Eric Yolbertson set Mitchell been in Cheney Anybody who has not been here before we are an advisory committee to the Development and Review Board. We will Listen to the applications and move them forward to the next meeting of the Development and Review Board and Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? All in favor of the agenda tonight raise your hand Unless anybody has any other comments, we will go to the first application for 148th State Street We want to come forward and have a seat and bring your materials building here I'm Katerina the Lab Rear the professional development director at the Vermont Association Realtors and As our application proposes there's no new construction alteration renovations or repairs Other than what may happen when we start painting the building Our current color right now is white the shutters are actually a green and Desperate need of a paint job the Color on the back page, which was originally submitted isn't really the color that we were expecting We were thinking of a realtor blue, but this is just way too bright My opinion, so we came up with another color which would be this color here We have wood trim on the building now. We're not planning to replace with vinyl We're gonna actually still paint the wood that's there But this is the color with an existing white trim. We're gonna keep again. It's not this bright white It's more of a an off-white color. So I wouldn't even refer to this photo at all But eventually Phase two I think would be To redo the roof to a black shingle so Right now it's green and I know that's not in the budget currently Building this color and then Later There is a very big consideration for that Yeah, I think what we're trying to do is make this building look more up-to-date Without losing any historical value. So yes, I think the shutters would definitely be we're not going to keep those shutters So being that they're green and adding new shutters I don't think is an option at this point. So are the ones that are there wooden shutters or they vinyl they're a vinyl They're cracking. They're faded. Okay, so once we paint the building I don't think we'll have any use for those shutters or any desire to purchase anyone So plus you have a variety of windows that don't even have them and yeah, the ones that they're on It doesn't make any sense, right? Yeah, this was a renovated home to an office. So we're slowly changing things as we go What's the siding on the building now? It's wood wood and you're gonna you just brought that for a color sample, correct? We're not planning to replace with any vinyl. We're just gonna use the color Yeah, do you know what that color is? Does it have a name? We don't we're actually going to take this color to a paint Shop and ask them to computerally match. Yes color. We saw a building with the color We wanted and couldn't get any matches. So we found this that matched similar to that building It was one of those we saw it. We liked it. What is it? We couldn't find it. So this is what we matched it to You're not intending to paint any of the trim any other That's all gonna stay that will not stay white, but it'll remain an off whitish color in contrast to this But we're not going to change it to this color blue. So you're just painting the clavards basically Everything else would be left Yeah, we'll cut we'll paint it over, but it'll be similar to the color that it is a white or off white You don't have an actual sample of the color do that one. Mm-hmm. No, that would be the You have a smart phone It is painted Yes, that'll be that'll be Like an off-white color We have mulch there and it gets dirty, so we'll have to just paint it anyway I understand why It's natural What color of the shingles that are on the building now green green Any idea of what your time frame is for replacing those For the shutters Replace the shutters no, it won't be this year that we can do that I assume it will be next year in the spring That would be phase two. Does anybody have any issues with if she wants to throw that and you don't have to come back To replace that would be great. Sure because that gives you a two-year window Okay, we've actually Okay, if that would work for us sure that considered a historic district the state street Probably Dela Br you and There are questions suggestions regarding the shingles if they want to replace them with a black shingles, okay And I'll read through the criteria unless you have any other questions. I don't know Criteria number one preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style for both projects in the historic district when false and historic structure acceptable Harmony of exterior design with other properties in the district acceptable Compatibility of proposed exterior materials without the properties in the district acceptable Compatibility of any proposed landscaping non-proposed Prevention of the use of a compatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable Location appearance of all utilities no change in utilities like outside lighting or anything Any Recognition up and respect for view quarters and significant investors including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable and then in the comments below I said that the You hadn't mentioned the applicant mentioned that rough shingles will need to be replaced soon The faded green asphalt shingles may be replaced but black as fault shingles of the same style or an architectural By the way, there's a great Shingle that has a lifetime warranty that's not very expensive and they make it a nice black which is Very reasonable When you get there and I said you propose that you have the option of removing the shutters And then you presented a softer blue color on a piece of vinyl siding Which you prefer to use instead of the originally proposed color and then we have a smartphone picture to begin into the file Any other questions comments the way here a motion to approve So second all in favor of the application Thank you very much You Next application is for the Langdon Street bridge USGS And introduce yourselves Okay Okay Yeah This will be the full-size poster that's displayed on the pole You can hang on to that And I have sketches here, but I thought it might be useful to kind of show a photo of Where it's going to be Like to put it and really the whole display is as a pole the things mounted on it to chronicle the history of flooding And I want to say that the fire department has kind of worked with us a little bit on this and has supported Because the city is funding as a gauge Water level is on a website and the city does monitor that Part of this and we kind of jointly got the idea would be need to have a little exhibit and the Gentlemen on the in the photo there Greg Helpingdorf was one of our students who passed away a few years ago Just wanted to sort of follow this into the memory So the pole would be mounted on the post office side of the bridge to the abutment here just a few feet off the railing of the bridge and If you are familiar that said there are these two little sort of steel Remains of something that stick out and we thought the pole There's a little ledge down at the bottom that the pole could rest on Audrey, but we'll hire you to fasten it so guys came up with Great I Gonna put those cities website the right website citation on there so people could go on their smart phones So the pole will be quite high Like 11 feet off the the road deck or so and we will Mark the flood with these 4 inch by 10 inch little cracks that will have the date on it Just have the year, but the exact date is on the poster And so what you'll see when you look at the pole Here in this left drawing of the flag up high for the 27th flood of flag That's sort of intermediate of the bridge railing, which was the ice game flood in 1992 And then two other floods will actually be below deck level So that those will be one-sided because they'll be up against the concrete. That's the two floods in 2011 the The the upper ones that are above the road level will be two-sided so people can see in both directions Is there any record around of any earlier floods in 27 with any accuracy at all? Don't think we have accurate levels. I know not not accurate enough for the USGS to put its What's their taller After the Floods, I don't know what year they're in it flooded all over the state on Montpelier But I worked with an archaeologist and kind of studied studied flooding And you know his his maintaining that most of the Landscape changes were done by events like the 27 flood rather than the slow Change So that's why I was asking yeah Were you looking at a flood that you thought was earlier than 27? He was the archaeologist. No, he was just looking for changes in the landscape for looking for archaeological resources because Obviously a flood takes it takes whatever is buried away, but Just a question it was interesting that Vermont has a history going way back of these kind of catastrophic floods That hit the one one. I can't remember what year it was. It hit Weitzfield and Warren pretty hard It's a town up in northern Vermont. It's a pretty good Yeah Yeah, let's sort of this tension between wanting to set your mill on the river and Put your down there and you're right in the flood plain Vermont's not the only place that happens So I really like this idea. I think we're going to point out a couple things You've got Three-by-three square steel. Yeah Well, so that is one thing that we are thinking of changing actually to a round Exactly because we're thinking now of a round aluminum pole No chance of any rust, right. Is that going to be a steel bracket? That's a good question. I think the bracket is I have to check that You just don't want to have steel And I think that the detail with the PT blocking I think that could be probably better Okay, sure we're open to suggestion I guess Do you really need it? Could you that's could you have plate? basically directly to it Similar metal block that again won't rust won't ride You stainless steel Fashioners into the concrete too. It might be possible to just actually mount the pole directly to the concrete depending on yeah How plum it is? Yeah Right, I mean the folks who do this at the USGS are then Manage and maintain these gauges all over Vermont and Hampshire all over the country and they're Pretty savvy with the whip mounting Equipment to the bridge is effective black pipe. You probably can't see in a little photograph a little black hose that goes down here Which is almost It's for the gauge. It's actually right there in the parking lot. So There is equipment that's there already and most people don't know notice But of course this will be sticking up on the concrete. So but yeah, we can certainly Address the use or lack thereof for the pressure-created wood And then I guess the last thing is how are they signs attached physically to this But there's a there are going to be a series of brackets that are similar to that that we don't have yet, right? We've been in communication with the printers of the sign Work for the Lake Champlain Basin program and they Install signs like this all up and down the Champlain Valley and we're essentially relying on their recommendation for the brackets for mounting The signs that they will print so it's probably going to be some sort of clamp that might look similar to that That's going to go around the pole and attach directly to the side Similar to a street sign, right? But you'll probably have the same look of either aluminum or Something like that So I just made a note here there was an adjustment that the PT blocks The standoffs instead of PT blocks would be either aluminum or stainless or something Other than the pressure-treated. Yep. Any other questions comments suggestions? You have something I'm just a little concerned about the brackets holding the signs Trying to keep that as clean as possible, so it's not like When you see clamps and bolts sticking out and then you're probably gonna get Looks like a much cleaner thing We can look into that We were waiting for this to be approved had to be approved We wanted to come here before we worked closely with the sign manufacturer To say we've got the green light. We're gonna go ahead and make the signs Before we went ahead and figured out what the actual brackets would be But based on what we've seen from other signs that have been put up by the Lake Champlain Basin program There you often those are on four by four posts and then they have a metal bracket that goes all the way around the sign But we're not gonna have four by four post. It's gonna be a free standing It's like a street sign And so depending on how things go it's Yeah, no, that's a great suggestion. It just makes those signs read much And people's for real. Yeah So, I mean these so the it's like a composite Here at last So I envision we'd have the frame that you can move it from Long-term maintenance just you know, I mean we'll Yes, so you'll be right coming here to see the spot already, right? Can you read the monitoring station now from? Outsiders at all not on site. No, you have to go online It's all it is a stainless steel box about the size of a cooler. That's it's above the guardrail and apparently there Hydrologists are also in the process of replacing that box to make it a slightly smaller one And it will have a little sign on it, right? That will have some more information about it right now It's just a sticker that says property of the US Geological Survey You can't run a wire up to a gauge Just to have a little just have a little readout. Yeah But the water level is not you have to access it through three years. Yeah That's the way they most of them go now because most of these sites are not in an area Frequented by a lot of people either on the side of a river off in the forest or something like that most people don't see them and so We usually don't have that sort of information. We do have a site at the at the Echo Center on Lake Champlain that's Got a little window that you can see and look at some stuff, but that's a much higher end piece of equipment It's also electronically tied to some information that's inside the museum But it's this is a actually a very simple version of most of the gauges that we operate and it was set up With the city to monitor flooding Especially during ice jams events working with the fire station so someone could Periodically just go to a website and see what the river was doing at any time of day Information is updated every 15 minutes on the website But there's nothing at the site that you can actually read to see what the level of the way nice You can just look down over the bridge But the the site is so easy actually I have an icon on my phone I'll have to just touch it and it pops up instantly And it gives me because my office is on the north branch I have some stuff stored down in the basement So you're I can wake up at 2 a.m. We're worrying about flooding and I can look and tell if I'm in trouble or not I don't have to go anywhere. I can look at that while you're laying in bed in the middle of the night It's pretty handy. It's very handy But you're maybe familiar on the upstream side of There is marks in the stone Where it's historically used to monitor well and and at some point our guys do want to put up a We call it a staff gauge that you can read the actual Looks like a ruler essentially. Yeah numbers on it and you'll be able to see what the height is there And right now if you're standing say On the north side of the bridge you can see some faded white marks on the stones And but aside from that you can't really see much in terms of the elevation if you're really interested When they do the aluminum pole is that possible to have? Marks on the pole every foot or so that's that was the original plan It could be very simple just to you know a thin black line with a you know 526 or whatever right because the base flood elevation downtown on all the flood maps is 526 So that would give people an idea of When the bank doesn't they have to have flood insurance they can't go look at the pole and see and see why I think you know from the beginning we were talking about that How we were going to get the marks on the pole So how you could actually do a little band a thin black band That's subtle but from the bridge just looking at the side of the pole The signs will be looking at it from both sides crossing the bridge But from from the bridge looking right straight out at the pole you could have just like a 526 Yeah every two feet or every foot or whatever it could be you know, it's simple to etch that in 526 and red would be great Yeah, yeah, not sure if that would be obscured by the rail 526 would be right near the top of the rail it looks like because 525 is below it So you'd almost be about waist level 526 Seems like it could be really close It looks like it will be it'll be just a little bit higher than that Doesn't have the elevation of Was 520 it will be around 526 the base it is this is 18 inches high So 527 or it would be sort of right was 525 Irene or was that the May flood in 11? 525 was That was it in we had one in March of 93. Oh 90 to March of 92 that was the that was the ice 525 To see where the numbers are well What's magic about Big color it's a base flood elevation that's a hundred year I Talked to Audra, I know those terms But there were some updates I Any other comments questions suggestions of any kind we can go through the criteria for this Again number one preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style I wouldn't call this an historic style So not applicable here harmony of exterior design whether the properties in the district Well, it's certainly a standalone, but it's acceptable compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable compatibility of proposed landscaping non-proposed Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable Location and appearance of all utilities will call this a utility Recognition of and respect for view quarters in Significant vistas including gateway views of the city and State House not applicable and again We just said that the only thing that we The only adjustment that was that the standoffs instead of being Pressure treated would be either a stainless or aluminum material if standoffs are needed Do I hear a motion to approve second All in favor of the application raise your hand if you sign that in the lower left above my name you have a pen Okay, thank you very much Just ask a quick question sure so if we did make little tweaks that aren't really on here like How much of that has to be approved by you versus the I can just add that I Didn't make copies for everybody sure You can't easily make copies that size. I was telling Jamie. We were gonna bring in the full-size pole Maybe that wasn't a good idea I think it's very cool Exterior Downtown there's a one in the bank, okay Okay One across the river First gas station Station So I just added that again the pole would be it would be changed to the round aluminum pole instead of a square And then I just said slender elevation lines may be added to the pole with small area indicating elevation heights above sea level And again, that's an option Any other clarification you'd like, you know one thing it occurs to me looking at this which we put in as an option But we didn't get feedback from you That we're gonna have Four of these elevation signs are four inches by ten inches They're showing the locations here at the different major flood elevations Okay, but we put in optional either white with black letters or USG is green with white letters that we look like a street sign and Do you have any Either one is fine. Okay. All right. We I didn't if you want to do a mock-up of both and look can see which is more readable My guess is the dark green with a white is more readable because of the contrast, but You have the option of doing either a line if you have a foreign sign You're gonna put a line where the level actually is. Yeah, you can see that just on that mock-up Yeah, but that is a line that goes right through the okay Yeah, so that line will be right at that at that elevation of the number whatever yes. Yes, we'll get that exact Whichever you feel is more readable Okay Yeah, I think you could look at the green one and not realize that it has Right Okay, good luck with your project The next application is for 27 Court Street for Ted Federer and his newly represented Hi, Dan It's quite a vacuum I know right There's no I'm as certain as I can be there's the exterior does not present evidence of that but the interior framing has Yeah, you know the four by four that's like that we can see You know, it's not necessary. It's not some of it is not obviously different like that that Four by four that's in kind of in the middle of that window Spam looks a heck of a lot like some other four by fours nearby Any nail marks and anything in any case that was actually built is something they changed in the process. Oh Oh, yeah, yeah, there would be there would be some evidence that they actually put the window in Rather than saying, oh, I just rather have one window up there even after it's framed, right? I hear you No, I'm I'm not I don't know exactly what evidence I would expect to see there I mean there there might have been you know the framed opening I would have been a wooden jam and what jam wouldn't been applied, but It's been removed the different all the IC is the is the trim on the outside Show it anyway, just you know running out into the corners into the freeze They are not Same size Exactly, yeah, the backs just the back exterior trims just State It's possible. I mean it's it's you know requires setting up staging and you know, it's not it's not a quick and easy thing It's up on the third floor. There's a porch, you know below it and it requires us to get up there safely So it's something that can be done like super easy as it was on the ground level I mean, we're only in it set up staging if you're gonna change it to do to do the change. Yeah What's an interesting framing job that they did It is indeed is the picture on the back That's correct, yeah, and that actually looks Framed similarly on the sides of each of those windows as it does tells us it does on the table I agree with that. I see the way this is framed Heavier on the sides Instead of a Jack just do a solid four-byte How does a four-by-four on either side? Yes, it is how they deal with the freeze It's covered under asphalt shingles and layers and layers of stuff In order in order to rather than create the exact What if these two windows could be moved close together to be the equivalent spacing of the two down below it into the left In front of the building Yeah, you've heard them up see if you move if you move those together Spacing between them as is the two below it into the left slightly to the left With that Allow you to clear the pre-sports. Yeah, I'm you know, I don't know I think you're looking at the spacing here. Yes in replicating that Space is smaller than the window and trim above it I mean Theo would be pleased to have two windows in there And I don't think anyone's wedded to you know, how far apart they are or are not necessarily And so if if squeezing them together with you know instead of I don't know, you know instead of whatever It was maybe it was two feet or something like that If making 12 inches in between them kept it away from the free board to clean up the trim detail There would be no pushback from this side of the table So how much float Harry do we want between the trim the window trimming the freaks? Quick question and the In the back building are the windows the same height on the that floor is the one below. Oh In other words and that one is is the height of the window. Yeah Same as it is believe so Steve Although I don't know that I paid real close attention because we've replaced we've reset We've resized those windows for egress purposes on that back side of the building for our original Permit, okay, so you made them taller or they are taller and wider so that we could because that one of those windows is a bedroom Okay, what's but was the size they were before how much on the smaller on the back Oh on the back. I I don't know for sure I I could I could guess but I don't know that it's a hundred percent great information You know that 32 by 60 number is a classic nuclear-sized double-hung window. Yeah and That's what we're proposing to use on the front of the building and all of the actually No, I can't all of the windows I'm I'm picturing the replacement window order in my head right now And they're all like all the double-hunges are those 30, you know plus or minus that 32 by 60 number But because those two rear windows were going to be new windows I just don't know Okay And you there's no restored photographs that you found for the front of the building no now Theo looked You know all over the place and did not Surprise Back to Seth's sort of Or is there any way I can't see this photograph, but presumably Location They are not That's what would be indicate to me that they were You're pretty excited about or this one you're gonna take away the fact compared to these other oh above Yeah, so Steve it was just brought news I was just reminded of the fact that the sheathing The joints and the horizontal joints in the sheathing do not align with like the sheathing That's outboard of the of the windows which which pretty clearly indicates that that wasn't in the fill I just I The possibility those windows were never put in because just the existing windows has lower cells and headers Mm-hmm, then the window that's there. Mm-hmm agreed People do make mistakes and drawings and things and buildings and building I think if you go to Definitely to give it some breathing in the freeze board because otherwise it's this real tenuous, you know Agreed I've been spying one on Main Street I thought to take a picture but never actually made it happen But there's one, you know, it's not it wouldn't be the only building with that. There's one on Main Street kind of maybe Next to Zalinger lamb back something something something Closer to the roundabout. There's one with some window trim not unlike the situation that we're talking about here But agree it if we could keep it away. I think that that would be desirable And and you know and Theo would be happy to Close those close those up if you guys want to kind of dictate, you know what you know And we can even size the windows these don't need to be egress windows necessarily We we were thinking that they could be that 30 by 60 or 32 by 60 window to be consistent in size with the rest of The double-hunges on the facade or at least on the second floor of that building And many of the other double-hunges, but if they wanted to be slightly diminutive Which maybe would be reasonable given the third force base Up or then drop the head Bring down the level of drop the sill down a couple of inches and go to a 56 instead of a 60 And then that would give you the the two with an equivalent spread Between the two windows below it and still give you a few inches clearance between the freeze board and the casing Yeah, yeah, so Marvin windows come in increments of four inches and height and two inches and width You know, so if we're decreasing four inches and height, do we keep things proportional and decrease the width as well? So 30 by a 56 Am I out of date on that? You can go to anything, but you save some money if you go within their parameters up there So yes, you're right you can they can be anything but I guess so disregarding what is or is not in stock the proportion Proportion of the window is still probably in question, right? So if we were to kind of decrease the window proportionally to keep that kind of roughly one to two width to height proportion So that we just kind of kept away from the freeze board and also maybe snuck the windows and closer to each other That would be okay So shrink it down to what that's 30 by 32 by 60 years coming up to either what a 28 or 30 by 56 Whatever it Just out of curiosity the front door. What what came of that we're gonna build a new A build a new door to replicate the existing door and who's the guy you're having do it Scott this guy. Oh, yeah, Scott Yeah, we'll do that in the house and the haggity or Um, we haven't we haven't uh, saw that detail out yet Probably no, it'll be a nice door. It will be a very nice door People have been using spanish cedar. Yeah, we've been using that too a little bit durable. Yeah wood I don't know if it really comes from Spain or how many dumps or would you take that many? um Seven maybe The building breathed a giant sigh of relief Yeah Is this space gonna remain sort of cathedral or is it now That floor system came out and it was like so tempting to want to think about that but The the approach that no, I can't afford that This is a pretty old frame No, it's it's all It's all you know, those four by four of the walls are let into the plates and It isn't of the the the structure structure part of it is is a is a timber frame through and through So it's it's paid As it uh Did you have to notice whether the timbers are circular sawn or Up and down sawn or they're hewn the timbers are hewn I bet that house is older than people think it is Hmm Yeah Right Tons of stuff. Oh my god walls were jam-packed full of newspapers and receipts and ice skates and All sorts of interesting things whiskey bottles I don't think we saw any of whiskey bottles, but lots of receipts coal receipts and And you know all sorts of interesting paperwork. We've found bags of nails with the recede from peck brothers hardfair 20s and 30s Guy spent half a day looking for the bag of nails he Actually one house Thresholds that were worn out when they moved them we found two indian pennies under each door way. Oh, nice Thanks So what we Said if this sounds agreeable, you know window size for the upper floor south facing windows may be reduced from 32 by 60 To between 28 and 30 by 56 Sill height may be dropped to the three inches So that the double window installation will maintain spacing between them to closely match The windows below to the left and the upper window casings will clear the freeze board to maintain architectural detail I would like you to add is that that change is based on evidence found in the structure We don't want to just sort of say this is freestyle You know, I mean we're not doing exactly what it is, but there's evidences Can we can we also Um, would it also make sense to add in there that the spacing in between the windows although the target would be to Be consistent with the spacing on the second floor windows that if it means clearing the freeze board that we can That we can squeeze those together. I just said closely approximating So you don't have to Just so it comes together enough that You know the window trim clears the freeze board, okay, I mean, you know not enough so it looks independent Are you working there fairly regular here? I'd just like to stop and look at the framing Because I would not suspect a fine framing like that until 1850 1860 I mean it would be it could be even earlier than that Just not a curiosity. We have pictures of one building that we have that had from 1875 and when we stripped the interior we found when this clear window framing That didn't show in 1875 but the building was built in 1840s So a lot of the changes that happened So what I did was I just added historic evidence of pre-existing window framing for the upper floor Allows to follow it And with other the criteria preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style We acceptable based on that evidence Harmony of exterior design with acceptable Compatibility of proposed exterior materials acceptable Compatibility of proposed landscaping non-proposed here Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or materials acceptable No changing utilities Recognition of and respect for view quarters sitting in thick and fisters including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable Based on those changes all in favor Raise your hand as always. Thank you all Yeah Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Dan No, just next application for 22 state street Our love you guys taking me out of my shift my pizza shift, so I'm happy for that Yeah So are there any changes or this is the same one going back same one Okay, each year we touch it up. We just re-oil the the wood and repaint the floor And throw it out there. Just touch it up get the fingerprints off Yeah Nothing's changed This gives them for another two years So you're bi-annual renewal So it's been two years since the last time Questions comments suggestions Okay All in favor Actually, I should read down this quickly preservation reconstruction of the appropriate historic style It's probably not applicable to a parklet harmony of exterior. You're designed acceptable Compatibility proposed materials acceptable Uh landscaping the plantings are acceptable Uh prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes are exterior materials acceptable Location and appearance of all utilities and no change in lighting or anything out there And recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant vistas including gateway views of the city and state house acceptable All in favor That's clear Somebody probably figured it out from the record Not always generally yeah, okay speaking as the zoning administrator going to figure stuff out. It's always nice for me to I just said renewal of a previous approval from two years ago All in favor You can sign that um lower left about a name. Thank you Okay, thank you guys Thank you. Have a good night. Yep And last application for 58 state street over lake park I'm accusing myself On the side So i'm dan kelly tenant of the 58 straight street building the garage building one of the requirements to utilize the front door as a customer entrance has been to Create a barrier if it's high enough that we get a creative barriers if people can't fall off of the ramp as well as hand railings per Chris lumber the building inspector and so we spoke with ben come up with designs and To build it and this is what he has come up with, you know hand off to you from there, sir Yeah, so one goal is to preserve. There's these um Guard rails, maybe whatever you want to call those pipes when there's bumpers Uh, the idea was to try and keep those there just because I kind of have some historical significance so we're going to put the Guard rails on the outside of those concrete retaining walls and they're all to be um Uh steel that we're actually going to leave Raw it'll rust over time and kind of blend into the same sort of like historic look of What's going on on our building, but they're much like the asiana sort of railings next door except everything is scaled up So it has a thicker stronger kind of heavier look to it that uh goes across that The outside of those ramps Um And then the handrail We had kind of justified it to one side to be able to allow for sort of Art objects or weird things to go on that ramp, but still create a clear easy walkway that goes up and down there It is not actually going to run vehicles up that ramp, right? Maybe offload cattle Well, I can see back then a moving truck again if you're doing the office Yeah, no, there wouldn't it would be it's a pedestrian entrance And it will be limited to the left hand side as you look at the lower left For people to glance out of that one door Yes, so There's nothing, um, it's an asphalt ramp. It's not um, it's not concrete, right? So One of the challenges is how do we mount this handrail to the asphalt? And so plan is to Kind of drill and pour and put in some sonotubes down into that And that is two angle irons back to back that allow me to bolt into that Concrete and give that railing some mass and stability down low Um Christine's cool with that you can put you can put a lot of Bolts in I see Yeah, I mean so anchors and then It what also allows me to do is just kind of drill to put in concrete In a line. I have no idea what I'm gonna hit in there and you know, I imagine they filled it with What's under what's underneath the ramp? Dirt stuff Concrete blocks Granite, I have no clue. Let's underneath What's under the asphalt that's there Don't know. I have no idea. I asked Jesse. Jesse had no idea. Um I mean, it's been there a long time and it is I was today was the first day I could kind of see it without a whole lot of like Fully covered in ice. It's flatter than I expected I'm not saying it's flat, but it is flatter than I expected That used to be the four garage Oh really? Yeah, I don't think it was walker that had it. I think he built the one He used to be a four garage So what are you capping the rail? That's a piece of c-channel that um The guard rail has a piece of upside-down c-channel it caps all those posts I was going to cut it flush with the Last post and it would get welded from underneath And then the same Should have given me a little closer detail same would be a smaller scale C-channel caps the posts that hold the Handles And they're not going to blow away for sure Not a steel right The attachment to the outside face Wedge anchors two five-eighths kind of good sized wedge anchors through a pair of Pieces of angle back to back and then the posts would be bolted Um Yeah, I'm surprised Chris lets you put the horizontal It's a lot rails because It's a ladder basically somebody wants to climb up there. They can do it easily Limitation there was too architecturally. We looked at that But it really wouldn't look very nice in terms of fitting in historically architecturally Right. I mean I'm just fine, but I think you know that I'm just surprised that That because I've run into other cases where they wouldn't let Building inspector wouldn't let you do that just having a ladder for For kids It's it's allowed. So as they turned on the electric Electric fence there will work like a charm Yeah So really open lawyer mesh Mm-hmm. Yeah, which would be fairly easy to do. I don't if he doesn't want to do it Not our deal I don't think it's required Is that a black metal or is it just a natural metal steel? I mean, it'll look black For the first year and a half and then it'll begin to look more brown That's a quartet and steel Weathering steel Same as basically what these pipes are That that exists there With those by torn painted either there. Oh, really? Is this there just So what's the space used for? First floor will be a veterinary surgical center and then the second floor will be sort of an event space or I guess it can be called the garage cultural center for Art exhibits for pop-ups for cooking demonstrations classes that sort of thing Sort of evolved into that sort of an odd mix. I realize there aren't too many projects that combine the two But my wife is you know into the art scene and and those people and so it was a good mix We didn't need the whole building But jesse was pretty adamant that he wanted to do it as a package deal So this is what we evolved into It's gonna be beautiful space upstairs for On that space It's unbelievably amount of interest that she's had. I mean she is Responding to 15 20 calls a day and I'm not exaggerating calls and emails a day of people interested in using the space It's the worst the veterinary hospital trust me. I mean that's the becoming the hopefully pay the bills a little better, but But it doesn't have the level of interest that she does That's interesting Stairs and an elevator. Yeah, we did put an elevator in like a lula elevator So some of these details are matching. Was that a full-size elevator? Well, lula is limited use limited application. Okay, so it's kind of Yeah, it's not you know, it's not a lift. I mean, it's a regular. It doesn't look a lot different than a normal elevator It just doesn't have the capacity to speed Of the regular elevator So and it can't go, you know, it'll go three floors. I think you can get those to go or something Is that a three stop it'll go from the basement level to the first floor and then to the second Won't go to the basement. Um that we had to build a huge cement foundation down there Both from flood and for the thing coming down how kind of be have concussive Was it hydraulic? Yeah And I know you had a question a while ago regarding dog waste bags to which I did ask We're going to be on the building not necessarily right here I think yeah, I would I said that piece in late, but Yeah, no, it's a reasonable rail yeah, I was We're gonna probably increase the dog population in the area I don't know if it'll increase you. I mean, it's pretty pretty big now. I mean, yeah, what's rolling around town But I haven't seen that as an issue in town. Has it ever come up as an issue? I mean, I don't see waste around with the number of dogs that I see people seem pretty good Oh, yeah, is there it's happened. I've cleaned up a few myself It's not like same in cisco, but Institute DNA testing That's come up, yeah Any other comments questions suggestions? Okay, I'll read down through the criteria then preservation of reconstruction of the appropriate historic style if it's proposed projects in the historic district Or involves an historic structure Uh, the railings acceptable harmony of exterior design acceptable Compatibility proposed exterior materials with other properties acceptable compatibility proposed landscaping and unproposed here Prevention of the use of incompatible designs buildings color schemes or exterior materials acceptable No change in utilities any lighting changes out Outside is there any is there any lighting for the ramp? Like in the winner the only lighting would be The existing lighting is front door But that parking lot is lit. So I don't okay. We're not proposing to add anything. Okay. That's fine There may well, there may be lighting associated with sign, but that goes my understanding is that's a separate Sign yes, okay So none with this application recognition of and respect for view quarters and significant investors including way way views of the city and state house Acceptable all in favor of the application raise your hand You don't count unfortunately You can sign that right above my name in the lower left there Okay, okay. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Good luck with the project And does everybody have a chance to take a look at the minutes? There No changes Basically the only one we had was the college street applicant Do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? Then the agenda approved the minutes and Going backwards second All in favor of the minutes for march 18 Put your hand and unless anybody has anything else to add do I hear a motion to adjourn? My second all in favor of adjournment. Put your hand meeting is adjourned