 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. In this super awesome paleo episode. Was this a paleo episode? Yeah, because we're here at paleo. Because we're drinking a beer. Half vegan. We're in Austin and we're at the Paleo FX event area or whatever. So for the first 40 minutes, Adam, Justin and myself talk about current events and have some fun conversation. We start out by talking about one of our childhood heroes. Yes, who's turning out to be a terrible person. He is a terrible, terrible man. Bill Cosby convicted might be going to jail. We talk about that brown fat and cold therapy. That's the kind of fat you get when you want in the sun, Justin. Oh, talk about it. He gets red fat. It's more of a pink. Credit we talk about new brain cells for people in advanced age. We talk about grip strength and longevity. What's the difference between pink and purple your grip? And we do we talk about the crisis of masculinity and the future of cars and movement then we get into the questions. The first question was what's the best way to work on the mysterious hamstring and glute tie in the ham glute tie in Adam trained people on that all the time. I got schooled on this. Justin had no idea what we were talking about. We do mention organify in that question because I've brought their protein powder here to Austin using Justin shaker cup. This Star Wars one matches your underwear. Justin, drink it, you know their proteins really, really good. If you go to their website, you will get a discount for using the code mine pump. The site is organifyshop.com. The next question was when is the optimal time for someone to start anabolic steroids? So this person's heard that if you're natural for a long period of time and then you take anabolic steroids, it's better. But maybe sometimes it's better to get on earlier like which one is better, which one's worse. We give you our opinion. The next question was what are our speculations on the human lifespan if all aspects of human health and wellness are optimized? In other words, how long do we think people can live if they're being really, really healthy? And finally, this person is sounds like they're making us an offer. Yeah, how much money would it take for us to sell out? Adams, the cheapest one, the pity starts on Monday. I don't know if I'm the cheapest one, I want to see numbers you're showing some numbers. Yeah, you can message us if you have an offer also this month. Listen, there's three days left to get the no BS six pack formula for free three days left after this month. This promotion will go away. How do you get the no BS six pack formula to work out for your court? How do you get it for free? Will you enroll in any maps bundle maps bundles or we take multiple maps programs put them together and discount them like 20 to 30% off. For example, we have a super bundle which is a year of exercise programming. We include several maps programs together string them together so you follow them through the entire year burn, body fat, build muscle. I mean at the end of the year, you're gonna look awesome. Well, anyway, enroll in any of those bundles. You get the no BS six pack formula for free. You can find out more about that and more about our individual maps programs at mind pump media dot com. We're back. We're back in Austin. Yeah, this is become. I like this town. I was gonna say our second home, but it's more like our third as I say we do la more, right? Just a little bit more though. I mean, we've been to Austin court a few times. How many times five now five or six hasn't no four. Is it really? Yeah, bro, we've been here a few times. Oh, four or five minimum, minimum four. Oh, shit. You know, I can't keep track of all the times we've we've gone places now. Well, I can think of that we stayed here twice and we've I can think of two other houses not including on it house. So that's five. So we've been we've been we've been at least I can think five different houses. Wow. Been in over here since what a great town. It's a I love it. It's got a good personality. The food is the most impressive thing. Oh my god. Oh yeah. It's one of the better food places I've ever eaten at. When we hit that next level, dude, I'll be flying over here just for the barbecue. Next level when I get justified like a thousand dollar flight just for some Taylor, Taylor, can you get a sponsor from a lot of barbecue? Oh, no, guess you know what you see? Bill use them. Bill you is hopping on his private jet service that he he fucks with. Yeah, you know what? Remind me. Don't let me forget. I want to reach out to him about that because I think he's connected to that. What do you mean? Is he a partner? He's a part investor. Part of what? And it's in one of those, you know, like the Uber of jets is like the new thing. Oh, so private jet and then you can you can basically Uber. There's obviously a lot of flights from the Bay Area to LA by the people that are flying private jets that are probably flying there by themselves. I wonder what that'll cost, what that'll look like. Yeah. Well, I think somebody who travels as much as we do or like a Tom Billu, it makes sense because of how much we pay for, especially us because how many people we fly with. It's not, it'd be a difference if you're one businessman by yourself. Yeah. But we fly with a minimum of four or five guys minimum. Sometimes more. When you do a private plane, do you have to go through the like the security thing? You could roll up with your duffel bag full of drugs. No, no, that's a serious question. I'm seriously answering it. For real? Yes. There's no like we got to check your back and security. Interesting. I did not know that. Fascinating. Yeah. What do you think all these big ass rappers do? No wonder. They get their private jet and then they fucking smuggle their fucking drugs across the country. Dude, speaking of drugs. Yes. Bill Cosby guilty. What? Guilty. When was that announced? You're right, rape drugist. When was this announced? Today. What? Yes. So trip off. He's gonna go to jail. 30 years. He could face up to 30 years. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. They haven't given, they haven't sentenced him yet. Which means he'll do five. Whatever. He's 80. He's 80. He's got me like the rest of his life. Dude. So, okay. Basically. Basically. This is a really bad question to ask. But I mean, you have to think this is a possibility that he takes his life, bro. If he has to go to, if he goes to jail. What do you think? 80 something year old. Think about that for a second. Think about what that would do like to your ego. Being someone as massive as that person is your entire life. Not just massive, but loved. Yes. He is untouchable. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And then to be, I don't care being in prison for one year. I would think that you got to be on high alert. Watch that guy because. If he goes in prison, they'll put him in a separate area for sure. No, but I mean taking his life before he goes in. I mean, that's what I think. I think you're that old already. And you're like, I mean, that's why that would be really tough to get someone like that to go. If it's like five years or more, if it's maybe one year and they figure something, but I doubt it's going to be that small. I was reading the story, dude. And it's it's crazy. It's crazy. And I mean, apparently he'd give women wine and pills and then a couple of them or a few of them woke up with him doing shit to them. Yeah. I mean, how fucked up is that, dude? And how do you get away with that for so long? You know, it's just that celebrity loves you so much. It's like they just like ignore signs that are like right there in front of you. Well, bro, you know how powerful celebrities can be, especially at that level? You know what I mean? And also, you're putting yourself out there when you put something. So it's usually what happens, what tends to happen. How do you what I want to know is how they prove that enough to get him to get him killed? There were like six women where they all aspiring actresses or they're trying to like get, you know, ahead and yeah, but they had to think about that. Just because you have a fucked up way to think about this. Oh, sorry. Get up. You were innocent until proven guilty and when you've got the kind of money that Bill Cosby has, you've got a fucking legal team that's going to find every way to get you out of this was a retrial because the first time they were deadlocked, the jury was deadlocked. So this is another trial because of that one. And this one he lost. Oh, yeah. You're right. But you're right. Yeah. He's got an incredible so to me that says that there had to been some really damning evidence for him to get when you have crazy when you have multiple women, multiple women telling the same kind of story. That's still not enough. Yeah. That's still not enough. I mean, like, that's not that's not that's not guilty. I mean, that's just because just because 50 people say it doesn't mean shit. Yeah, they got to have they got to have some some tangible fucking evidence, bro. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the whole case. Videos or recordings of conversations or text messages or something. I mean, to get to get him, bro. Oh, I'm sorry. More than 50 women came forward with sexual assaults. Oh my god. More than 50, my bad. More than 50 or 50 or more. Yeah, a serial asshole. Yep. Yep. He could face up to 30 years in prison. Wow. I mean, at what point is it at one point is it get crazy and ridiculous like that because apparently he got pissed off in the in the room or whatever that was it called the courtroom. He's like, what guy has it trying to get a girl fucked up? Oh my god. Why am I right? Right. Just because I because more women judges like, yeah, now you're going. Now you're going to get put to death. Sorry. That's a stupid comment. Yeah, fucking crazy, though, because for me, I don't know. I mean, our generation. We grew up with Cosby was. Oh man. He's like Mr. Rogers. Yes. Yeah. He was like so screened the black Mr. Rogers. Well, didn't he he actually I remember if it was Eddie Murphy. I think it was Eddie. He's sponsored by Jello. He talks about like he was sponsored by Jello. You can't get any more like in family household, dude. Like that's like he's in everybody's house. Say the darndest things. You know, like he was all about like the father guy. Dude, this just points to how crazy our psychology is when it comes to celebrities. We see someone on TV play this character. He's this great dad on the top. I don't ever trust any Ned Flanders motherfucker. No, I mean like anybody that's like super, you know, but careful but my point is by point is we know he's acting. We know he's playing a character, you know, and yet we think, oh, he's such a good guy and it blows our minds because we want to believe that. That's what I'm saying. We don't know him. Nobody knows him. You know, that's crazy to me. That was shocking, though. Yeah, it's a love cause we cause we show like all that, you know, like he was he was a great comedian. Did you ever watch his comedy stand up shows? They were hilarious. He's great. And he never remember. He never cost at his shows. He was always great stories. Yeah. So okay, so let me ask you. He was like the anti Eddie Murphy. So how do you guys? How do you guys feel about him then? Now just period. What are your thoughts on? Well, before all, man, before all this, I thought he was hilarious. I thought he was a great comedian, loved him as an actor. I mean, after hearing this, he's a I mean, if if it's true, which which the jury thought it was true, he's a fucking scumbag. He's a serial rapist. He's disgusting is one of the word. You know, that's he's like at the bottom of the of the bucket of scum or whatever. That's you know, I mean, think about fifth. If again, the jury thinks it's true. Yeah. And if it is true, this is a man that had women in his home and he drug them to fuck to fuck with their their, you know, unconscious bodies. That's terrible. So I'm going to play devil's advocate just because just because but you know, imagine the guy's 80 something years old, you said, right, or 70 something. How I don't know. Okay. So let's just say he's okay. So and we're talking super famous. Super super famous. Like one of the most famous. Okay. So I mean, I don't know how much you guys follow Charlie Sheen and stuff like that when Charlie Sheen used to openly talk to playboy and stuff about all the women that he would that he'd sleep with and stuff like that. And Charlie Sheen was going running through like a thousand women a year. Like literally a thousand different women a year he was going through and he knows he's beyond the tens of thousands women. So if someone like that is is making that much conssexual content. And you say you say a number like 50 women are coming forward and saying that he basically fed them alcohol and drug them stuff like that. I mean, how many guys do you know are I mean people joke about all time about feeding girls alcohol and trying to get them drunk and girls do it to guys too. You know what I'm saying? You see both sexes do that. I've had that. I had that happen to me when I was 21 years old and I had a 30 something year old woman fucking feed me shots all night long and then holding my hand and taking me to the bedroom something like that. Like that shit happens on both sides. Now she's now she probably does not have the pool the celebrity pool as he does doesn't have doesn't have thousands of options like me coming to around her all the time. So maybe she doesn't get to that level. But somebody like Bill Cosby who's probably at you know through his you know his prime and his peak years of of fame was probably going to fucking celebrity parties where people are throwing themselves already at him every single day. And yeah, they throw some drinks and he wants some percussion. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that that makes him. I'm not like defending him right now. But could it be like is it that fucking crazy? I don't. Well, here's that crazy. Here's the thing. He he was you know giving women drugs and then they would wake up and he was doing things to them. And here's the thing with cases like this. Yeah, that's a good point. That's that's taking to another. Well, I mean, I look at everybody. Most people have had sex with other drunk people. And when you're drunk, you make different decisions. You just do. That's not a problem. A lot of people have sex while on drugs. In fact, that's one of the reasons why people like to do drugs is that they do drugs and they go have sex. And so they're not in their normal state of mind. But unconscious. That's a whole different. That's that's that's you know, I mean that's so blatant, so obvious. Somebody's you want to define it. Yeah, and I don't know. We don't know. I mean, all the stuff in the in the in the case. Yeah, I wish I knew details because that stuff to that. I mean, you're talking about an area that it matters. Well, yeah, it does because one person can interpret that. Well, that's why I didn't want to. I didn't want to get on the train of just like immediately, you know, bastardizing him. I just want to wait till, you know, all unfolds, get more information. Anybody that in especially if they're celebrity because you just know that like they're just a huge target. They're a huge target. And if you think that's scary, by the way all these women that came forward, you got to believe we're going to get settlement cases out of this. He's going to get nailed huge financially. Well, if he lost this, they would have gone straight to just civil lawsuit just like with OJ Simpson. Right, right. So they're going to get all paid and rightfully so if you were taking advantage of that and raped or anything. You know, I 100% agree that you should be. But I do know. Okay. And I mean, they in the my buddies that are all on sports, they call them cleat chasers. Yep. And you know, there's girls that are literally just out to try either impregnate you or get you caught up and then and because you're already making millions of dollars, they'll go away for a half a million because it's no big deal to them. And so this is that's the thing, man, you become a big target. Usually you need to be if you're a celebrity, like you be very careful with what you do and who you do it with because you've got a big money sign above your head. And you and you probably would spend a lot of money to make people be quiet because your fame or whatever your character will be the public persona is your business. Yeah. You know, so that's just I just I do the math. I know how old he is. And I say 50 50 women that came forward to that that's two a year over the last 25 years. So two parties a year when he was in Hollywood, Hollywood, doing a line of coke and getting crazy and fucked up and hot chick, Fiener drinks a crazy throw or some pills. Shit. He gets crazy. This younger girl is sleeping with this older guy. And then, of course, she regrets it later on and says like, oh, no, I can definitely I mean stuff like that can definitely happen. There's so many of them. And remember the jury, the first time was deadlock. This time they were unanimous. They were definitely unanimous. So yeah, I don't know, man. It's it's an interesting crazy. It's crazy because it's him. You know what I mean? But that much money, that much power, that much access. I mean, I don't I'm not a big fan of celebrities. You know, it's a it's a it's a weird. Here's a thing too. Like we hear you hear things like that and you think what an evil monster. I mean humans are capable of some really fucked up shit. And I can't imagine being in a position where you're that where people everybody around you all the time tells you how fucking awesome you are. You have anything you want. Right? You have all this money, but you don't really need the money because people give you free shit all the time. You're you're ever you're so beloved. You get away with whatever you want. Like how that fucks with your that could be poison for your psyche poison for you. Oh yeah, I agree. That's why you see these kids just you know the kill themselves or overdose at such young ages when they get famous. It's just it's not something that I would necessarily I would definitely wouldn't want that. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. No, I hear you. I don't know man crazy. All right, let's talk a little bit about some fitness science because there was something else that I read over the weekend that I thought was really cool. So they identified these. I'm going to try and pull up the study immune cells in fat in brown fat. You guys know the difference between white and brown fat. Yeah, you're only go. I mean, this is a you bring this up right now, but hasn't Rhonda Patrick been talking about this for a long time. She's been talking about how cold contrast activates brown fat. But what they're finding is that the immune that there's immune cells within the brown fat and that's their job. Their job is when you're cold to activate thermogenesis and burn fat to warm you up. Babies have a lot of this. By the way, so babies are really chubby because they have these like little heaters, but this just points to think about this for a second. We evolved to have this system that turns on when we're cold to warm us up. It's a natural system on our body. How often do we turn that fucking thing on? Well, I mean, we've been we've been saying this forever with the whole. I mean, I look comfortable. I've told you guys since we've started my pump, probably the arguably the most game changer thing I ever it started to do was the hot cold contrast. I mean, that's been it's I can. I used to be someone to get sick all the time. All the time. And it's like everything, every technology advancement we've made to make our lives more convenient and easier. It's like it's biting us in the ass. You know, it's like, I'm sure there's going to be some study about sleeping with a pillow. You know how it's well, your neck and like, you know, there's going to be something that comes out, you know, with we try to like make something in our life like more cushioned, more comfortable, more soft. And every time we do that, well, think about it this way. The immune system is a learning. It's like a it's like a very interactive learning part of our body. It's you develop a signature. And when you're exposed to things, it changes itself to what you're exposed to. You can strengthen it. It can become resilient. It can become weak because it's not being exposed to certain things. This is why autoimmune issues are many times connected to lack of exposure to other germs and stuff. They call it the you know, the clean hypothesis or whatever where kids born on farms tend to have lower rates of allergies and asthma and autoimmune issues than kids who live in urban areas or whatever. And again, they think it's exposure to animals and stuff like that. So this is a part of your immune system. This is a part of your immune system designed to warning you up. And we're not training it. We're literally not training it. So that part of our immune system can become becomes dysfunctional at best stops working really well. But maybe at worst, maybe causing maybe a cause of disease. Yeah. And the fact that we evolved to have this switch that turns on through cold tells me that we were exposed to cold a lot. Yeah. And it's probably something we evolve to require. Like we evolved to require sunlight or we you know, we need certain stressors in our you know, in our body. So it's like cold, cold may be extremely important part of your life. Like I don't take hot showers anymore. I always I'll go in hot and I always go cold for at least a minute or two afterwards. So brown fat. Is it leaner? Like looking like if you ever seen a cadaver between like brown fat versus like just regular fat. I think that's just referring to literally the color color. Yeah. But but no brown fat. When you have a lot of brown fat, you have a high thermogenic ability and it's easier for you to burn body fat. And here's, you know, there's a lot of people who say you can convert white to brown fat through different methods. And this may be one of them to develop this part of your immune system. I mean, I tell you what the Eastern Europeans have been using. They've been using cold, you know, therapy or whatever you want to call it for a long fucking time. Little kids, they do the polar bear. We used to call that the polar bear crew that would go swim like, you know, in freezing water all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, little kids, have you seen the videos of the like the Russian kids who it's they're like eight years old and it's snowing outside and then for the recess they go outside in their bathing suits and they explain the snow and pour water on themselves and shit. That's crazy. I would die if I did that. It's nuts though. I mean, we we live in this world where we get in our car and we have the AC or I mean, shoot, I catch myself doing this all the time. I mean, I have the push start thing through the window, right? So I in the winter time I started up before I even get there. So it's nice and warm. My seats are warm when I get inside the car. You know what I'm saying? I leave my house that's, you know, 75 degrees tropical, you know, but it's supposed to be freezing outside. I don't know what it's like to be like that. And they go into a building that we work at that we keep it at a temperature. You know, that's crazy. No. And you know what it's done for me is learning about this more and more and just understanding the human systems and how they need to be challenged. Not because necessarily it's the challenge, but more so because it strengthens these systems and you need to exercise them just like you need to exercise your muscles. I mean, you go to the gym and you stress out your muscles not for the stress but for the adaptation because it's good for you. And if you don't stress your muscles ever, they deteriorate and you lose that function of your body. And so the ability to acclimate to heat and to cold think of it as a muscle. Right. And if you exercise it, it gets stronger and it gets healthier. If you don't exercise it, it deteriorates and becomes less healthy. And we know what that means. And so anyway, for me at least understanding that I've developed a new relationship with cold. So I used to hate fucking jumping a cold water, do cold shower. You're fucking crazy. Like, and now I like embrace it more because I know what it's doing for me. It's totally different. Oh, I agree. Totally different. 100%. So another thing that I read over the weekend that I wanted to share, I've been holding on to this. So they did a study on so used to the belief used to be that young people grow brain cells can grow new brain cells. And as when you get old, it just that just stops happening. But what they're finding now is older people's brains can also build new brain cells. They can all they also have that ability. Now it's not as good as when you're young, but it's still there if you're healthy and you take care of yourself. One of the things that tells the brain to do that is this compound called BDNF. You got to back up first before you go into the science of it. What is a study like that even look like to prove that point? Like how do they do that? Like what are they? Are you telling me that there's people that are 80 years old that they've just now found that like, oh, wow, neurogenesis is still happening? They were so they research, they autopsied hippocampus parts of the brain from 28 previously healthy individuals aged 14 to 79 who died suddenly. So they took the brain out and they actually studied and they were looking for newly formed neurons and the state of blood vessels within the entire human hippocampus soon after death. And then what they found is that there was evidence that there was new brain cells being developed in the old brains and in the young brains, which we kind of thought we kind of lost that ability or at least that was, you know, what people were saying. Although there's a lot of scientists that were speculating that we probably did. Well, I thought, I mean, that's exactly what fasting promotes, right? Isn't that, I mean, that's neurogenesis is the ability to do that. So I would think that even somebody that's healthy and takes care of themselves in their 75 or 80 that implements this, you know, fasting protocol every once in a while could potentially develop more. Well, one of the best ways to get this to happen is exercise. Exercise causes the release of what I was saying earlier, BDNF, which is this chemical that tells the brain to develop new brains. Sounds like a metal band. BDNF. BDNF. BDNF. Yeah, so, but exercise is a fantastic, you know, way to do that. And of course, exercise, when you're talking about like keeping your brain healthy, I don't think there's anything that's been shown to be as effective or, you know, alone by itself as exercise and movement for keeping the brain healthy, very, very strongly connected to having a healthy brain is having a strong body. In fact, they have a study now that they're showing where they can predict your, they can predict your odds of having, you know, of dying all cause mortality based on your grip strength. What? Yeah. I think you brought this up before and I was like, let's get at the... Well, well, because grip strength is a good, like the average person when you measure their grip strength, it'll tell you better than pretty much anything else. And it's easy. How generally strong they are. How physical they probably are. Yeah. Or just how strong they are. Like if they have a weak grip, they're probably not good at, they probably can't squat, they probably can't do anything else. Yeah, which means they're probably not very physical people. That's it. Or if you have a naturally good grip, means you're probably doing more active physical things or you're having near muscular control or anything. Plus it's a good, it's an easy test, right? They could just squeeze something instead of having to get people to get up and move and stuff. So it's a test that they're using now and they're showing that if you have, like if your grip is weak as you get older, then you, it's strongly connected now to just pour everything. Pour health, pour mental function, all cause mortality goes up. But really we know it's just, obviously it has nothing to do with the grip. Right. It's showing that they're probably more fit, healthy and active or whatever. That's cool. Yeah, kind of interesting stuff. That's really interesting. It's, to me, it's fascinating because with exercise, especially with resistance training, the older you get, if you're fit, the older you get, the further you separate yourself from your peers. Like, you know, like when you're 25 years old and you're fit, like you work out and you eat, right? Oh yeah. We've talked about this on the show before. Yeah. There's not a huge difference between you and average 25-year-old. There's a big difference, but not a huge, boy, if you're seven years old and you exercise and you eat, right, and you've been doing so for a long time and you compare that person to the average person of the same age who doesn't do those things, there's a huge difference. It's like night and day. You've got someone who needs help all the time. I really started to notice that when we started to hit our 30s. When we started to hit our 30s. Is that when you saw in your friends? Yeah, that's when I really noticed in just all friends that you- It's like a tipping point. And then, yeah, you really see the visible, the visible effects of it, for sure. In our 20s, I felt like everybody, even people that were like non-fitness or ex-athletes or whatever that friends of mine, everyone had their like ups and down waves where they would get back and forth and shape at 30, you know, especially if you're married by then or whatever like that, like almost everybody I know, just like that's when they just ride it off. So it gets, it accelerates fast as you get close to 40. Yeah. So I noticed the same thing. So I have, there's nine cousins that we all grew up, we're all around around the same age. And then we all have friends that grew up with us that we know. So we're all like, there's a lot of guys I'm relatively close to who that we've known each other since we were either babies or maybe kids, right? And I remember, I've always been the fitness guy and a few of my cousins have been active and stuff like that, but I've always been the one that's really into, you know, fitness and nutrition. And when we were in our teens and I was doing it, not, you could barely tell the difference. By the time we were in our 20s, I mean, the difference was, oh, Sal's kind of buffed and these guys aren't. That was really the only difference. Once we hit 30, I remember I'd run in, I'd see some of these people, some of my cousins and who I haven't seen for like three or four months, like there's a wedding right now, right? And these are my second cousins. So there'll be a wedding going on at show up and I'd look and be like, holy fuck, does Homeboy have a, he's got a belly? Like he's never had a belly. He was skinny. That's so weird. That happened in the 30s. Now that I'm getting in the 40s, it's not that anymore. Now a belly is common. Everybody has a belly, but now what's happening is fucking problems, health problems. Like, oh, like Homeboy had a panic attack or this, oh, I pulled my back the last week because I was trying to pick up a case of water. Like my knee hurts all the time and I'm like, oh shit, this is getting bad. I'm on my back surgery. What? It's way too young for that shit. I'm actually starting to hear people now because I'm 30, hold on my now, 39, right? So I'm 39. I'm hearing guys now, which means it's been happening for a little while because it's not something dudes like to tell each other that like they're not as like sexual. Like, you know what I mean? Like that, like they're, you know? Elephant in the room. Yeah, that's crazy. No, it's, it's happening in a much earlier age than before, dude. And I think a lot of this has to do with, I mean, we talked earlier about how cool it is, all these electric bikes and stuff that's all over the place. But I think we're just becoming fucking, I mean, sedentary as fuck, dude. I mean, we are not moving around whatsoever. So the moment you make that switch in your mind that like health and fitness isn't like a priority for me. We're homogenizing, dude. Totally. We're homogenizing. Totally. Like you, like, like the, like, maleness testosterone and strength and muscle and all that stuff is, it's just declining. It's just the merging of AI. Are we part of the rebellion? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're gonna be the only one in the resistance. Justin gets how excited when I, when I throw Star Wars terms out. I can't even see this. I love to do that. Everyone's served up a Star Wars term real quick. Yes, you guys. Yes. The empire. Okay. I could have convinced him to make a shirt right after that. If I wanted to be part of the rebellion, just wait, dude, in the news, there'll be a death rate. You guys will be like, I'm like, yeah, I knew. I knew it was coming. Dude, the first, you guys, I've been preparing. The first time I realized that Luke and all those guys were the terrorists blew my mind. I'm like, wait a minute. They're the terrorists. I know. No, rebellion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's different. No, no, I think we're homogenizing, dude. I think men are becoming more and more less men. You know, there's a crisis of masculinity going on right now and people think it's no, they think there's too much masculinity. Not true. It's the opposite. And part of that crisis is absent fathers, men who won't take fucking responsibility. You know how many guys now I know in their thirties and forties, they're still like fucking kids, like they're acting like kids because they don't have no responsibility. They do what they want. They work a little bit, whatever. You got all these guys that leave their, you know, they'll get someone pregnant. They'll take off. And of course we got lower testosterone levels and all. There's a crisis of masculinity. It's fucking crazy. It's throwing things in an interesting. How far do you think we'll go before we swing back? I believe we'll swing back. We'll swing back. We're not, we're not literally going to become one. We're going to be all fucking like 10 dolls. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's, you know, it's got to go. Where'd it go? Oh, shit. It's got to go extreme. And then we'll work our way back. So the question is like, how far did we go before we make them? Well, what I think is going to, what I think is happening, what may happen is as men become more feminine, women will become more masculine to meet right in the middle. That's exactly what I think is going to start to, that's exactly. And I don't mean this in the like stereotypical way. I mean this in the, you know, in like deeper ways. You already seen, you've already seen this now for a few gents, for a couple of, yeah, I've already seen it for a couple of generations where you have a sizable chunk of children are being raised without fathers. And so the moms are taking on the roles of, you know, that kind of masculine and feminine. Yeah, masculine and feminine. And again, it's not, I'm not being stereotypical here. That can mean a lot of different things, but I think single moms know what I'm talking about. And it's been like that for a little while. So I don't know, it's kind of interesting. I don't know if it's all connected or if it's all coincidental. Yeah, I think it's partially coincidental. And I think that we're piecing it together. And I think that there's pros and cons to that. And I think that when we start, like always as humans, we press boundaries and we push things and we wait till, oh my God, this is unhealthy or this is bad or this is killing lots of people or whatever it may be. And then we start to address it. But it just, I think, but I also think it's necessary. I think it's necessary that there are people pushing boundaries. And that's why I don't judge about it. I love to talk about it. I love to have dialogue about these types of conversations, but I don't judge over it. Yeah, I still feel like we're all really pressing forward for something. Like we're all trying to work towards something, like a creation of something and this being like, advancements and we don't want to stop and like work on ourselves. We want to like work towards this thing. It's like we're obsessed with like, we're in a rush to create artificial intelligence. We're in a rush to create the nuclear bomb. We're always like finding something that we have to like find meaning and purpose through creation. And we can't like be present and experience life. I think that's coming. I think we'll always be that way. Well, no, it's like an addiction we all have. I think it's coming. I think once we get what we think we want, we're going to realize it's not what we want. Once we have like everything is super, super, super easy. And AI is doing a lot of hard work for us and we're plugged in and it's like, oh, now we figured out aging and all stuff. I think at that point, if we're still around, I think humans are going to be like, oh, well, we have everything we thought we wanted, but we're miserable. Like, what's going on here? And then I think people will start to look. Both worlds will exist and we'll push those boundaries. And I really do. You know, I laugh because it's like that sci-fi story you always bring up. We're going to have the people who are connected. People are not going to be connected. You can see that. You can see that. You can go to war. You can see that, right? You can just, and I don't know. They live underground. I don't think they're going to go. I don't think it's going to be weird in war life, but I definitely think that there'll be people that, one, will never choose the life of being plugged in because they just want to rebuke it since day one. And then you'll have the other group that have experienced it and know that it's not all that's cracked up to be. So then they'll be on the other side. And then you'll have those that think that it's been the greatest thing ever for them because before, 20 years before, someone with the amount of money they had wouldn't be able to experience all these things. Like that's what's happening is everything is becoming so accessible. We were talking about this before. Everything we think we want. Right. In the car yesterday, we were talking about it. And I said, you know, and I tell Katrina this and I stand by this that we're looking at buying a new car right now because it's time for us. But almost all our vehicles are over 100,000. So we're going to need one or get one soon. And so I tell her, you know, really think about what you want to drive because this would probably be the last vehicle we drive that we buy, right? Because, and I believe that. Such a trippy statement, but I totally on board. Dude, if not this one, the next one. I mean, I don't think you're far off at all. I think it's, I think it's, we're watching it speed up right now in front of us. I mean, I'm already seeing it like, if I live downtown, I would not want a car right now. For what? Yeah. It would be, it would be these little scooters and bikes all over the place. Like that would. Here's what a car provides you with currently. It provides you with more freedom in the future. It's going to be a liability. It's going to be a cost and it's going to be. Yes. Less freedom. Yes. That's the right way to put it. It's going to be a liability. And people will almost mock people that still drive. Because it'll be that transition period. We go over and it'll be like, what? You, you spent a hundred thousand dollars on a car. Can we at least get jet pads or something? I'll drive any, I'll drive, listen. I'll drive any car I want for the rest of my life for that price. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That kind of money, you're going to be able to. Dude, I want the Ironman suit just to get the word. Stupid. You know what I'm saying? I just took that way too far. So awesome with that being. I don't think we'll be flying around in Ironman suits. Oh, come on. At this time. There's got to be some fun. That's what happens when we give them too much. We bring up Star Wars, right? Like that's what I get for feet in that way. Now his brain went all that way. Like, oh my God. Yes. You just want to go there. Let's go there. This is what's going to happen. Well, I really dive into this at some point. It'll be a it'll be illegal to drive on most roads. A hundred percent. It'll be illegal for you to personally drive on most roads. At some point, it's going to be all automated. And you driving on the road is going to be more dangerous than not. And so, you know, it's already getting more and more popular. And I see it all the time with people. I know that do have a lot of money to spend and buy like really, really expensive cars that they just drive on the weekends is exactly that. They go to get to the track and that's what it'll look like. I mean, that's why I'll never sell my classic car because I think it'll just continue to go up in value. It'd be so rare. You know, I have a classic car. I'm going to have like a four wheel drive truck so that way I can go like mud on some track. There's going to be a specific track where I can like, you know, rally my truck on. Oh, I told people who own cars are going to be very wealthy people. Same kind of people that own horses now. Like if you have money now, if you own horses or if you're a farmer. Equestrians. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But I mean, think about it this way. I've been, I've been thinking about this a lot and I've been trying to think about all the different ways because people don't realize that modern society was based on the car. Like modern Americans particular was was designed to develop around the, you know, the railroad changed everything. And then the car changed everything even further. And so everything was designed around the personal ownership of a car. And when that assembly line, right, yeah, when that when that era is over, when that's ends, because it now costs you, you know, a thousand or two thousand dollars a year total to go anywhere you want with a car, because you don't have to pay for insurance. You don't pay for gas. It's cheap. It's super accessible. I try to think about all the different things that will change. The easy ones are like all the space that's dedicated to cars like garages, you know, parking lots like all like parking lots at stores and sidewalks. But here's, here's how amazing it will be with that open roads. Yeah, or bigger. You know, well, you're still going to have to drive. But, you know, here's not all blocked up. Yeah, I don't know how much that I don't know how much all that stuff will change because you're still going to need the cars to take people around. You just won't be owning them. So those parking lots now will be filled with like those are like a parking lot like a parking garage that you would see downtown now will be will be owned by a company that has all these cars in there. And those cars go out and go pick people up. Here's an interesting thought. Here's an interesting thought. You just made me think of because I know I know that, but I don't think they would. I think if you're the mall and you own a parking lot because you have to, I think you're looking at that as new space you can lease to stores or whatever. That's my point. Like it's going to completely change the landscape of how how things like, but you made me think about something which is really interesting. Would it be marketable or would it be in the market's best interest or in a company's best interest to provide its own pickup service? Yes. So now you want to go shop at fucking Macy's or whatever. Instead of paying for a fucking car to come pick you up, they offer free service only to their location. So now you can go shopping and it costs you nothing. And more you go to a restaurant and where we're going with all that. It's you won't even go. It'll be delivered to you just like everything else. You still want to go places though. I don't know. That's what's scary. They'll be like showrooms. What's scary about where we're going and why I always keep going. I know I like a broken record talk about the steps in the movement because I'm just so blown away by the lack of movement. We are getting closer and closer to stepping less and moving less and less and everything coming to us. I mean, it's only going to get worse. It's going to get worse before it gets better. I mean, I think we can all agree on that. And if it's how can it get. But if we're averaging 4,000, how can we get steps? Yeah, how can we get much less worse than that? I mean, that's literally if you walk and we time to we talk about this. I mean, that's 30 minutes of straight just walking. So that means you're not even walking 30 minutes an entire day and that's going to get probably less. Everybody's on segues. Yes, well, you'll have those little scooters will be parked out your right outside your house always. You'll be just let me ask you this. Let me ask you guys this because it may actually it may actually make things better. And so hear me out. It will in many ways. Well, hear me out. I mean better in a lot of different ways, but maybe even activity. Think about this way. What's one of the worst pain in the asses about driving to a city to check it out or driving to a national park or a place to hike? Or what's one of the biggest pain in the asses? Sitting parking your car. Now now imagine that. So think about that fitness bus. Yeah, but think about this way. Like now you're like you can go anywhere because it'll just drop you off in the front. Maybe people will actually move more. I know I love giving humans way too much credit. I don't know. You're giving you're giving humans way too much credit because that still is what people will look at. You know what's happening in the general. And you know, we know this because we're in the tech world that's wasted time. That's waste walking in the dirt. Like why would I walk anywhere? I could push a button and have something come get me and take me there or have it delivered to me. That's more hours I could be working and plugging away on the computer. Why should I eat any food? I'll just drink soylent. We live in this society right now that is they're not looking for any more work. I don't know. Maybe it'll become cool though to start doing some of that stuff. Well, I think you're right. If we had to place our money, you've got the money back. You've got the odds. And there will be cool kids and there will be. There will always be. But cool, the definition to me about cool is being an outlier, is being unique, being yourself. And so it will be the people that are like choosing to not be normal and go do those things. I think they'll be cool people around that. You know what else will happen from that is you'll start to see, because right now like you see there's expensive property. The closer you get to where there's a lot of work, the property gets more expensive because people commute time, right? But when you have self-driving cars, first of all, traffic is dramatically reduced because they all synchronize. Most of traffic is caused from human error. Number two, you can be productive in the car. So you don't have to worry about anything. So I wonder if it's going to spread people out even more because now I'm like, oh, I'll buy a house further away. That I believe. I believe that. And that's some of the positive things that are going to come from it. I think that, I mean, I think about this right now being somebody who's house shopping is, you know, right now the biggest thing that keeps us even close to San Jose is the drive. Yeah, is the drive is Katrina's got to get up to early in the morning and work. But if this is our future in the next 10, 15, 20 years or whatever, well, then yeah, I don't mind being in it. I'm sure she doesn't mind being in out. We both spend enough time on computer and email time that that would be a perfect time to do it is while I'm waking up, having my cup of coffee, have my computer in front of me. I'm answering all my emails, taking care of all my like computer type tasks. It's an excellent time. Then I'll actually enjoy the commute. If I'm not driving and I can be completely my own. Oh, I would love a nice cruise and play your playing your favorite podcast, playing your favorite podcast while you work on your computer or your computer or listening to music and chill, whatever. Yeah. So what are we doing? Like a homeless person gets on the freeway. What do you mean? What do you mean? Like what do you mean? Like all of a sudden chaos happens because the car is system, right? And you're stuck in this car that's supposed to be automated. Yeah. I wonder if they'll block the roads off differently or whatever. That's a good point because that's a conundrum too is where does the car just feel like there's always going to be these little interruptions in this perfect utopian, you know, sort of. There will society that's going to be people like throwing rocks and breaking. Shut up. Dude, there's going to be, well, we'll see. It'll be it'll be slow and fast at the same time if that makes sense. Right. It's those are going to be lanes. It's what I'm imagining. What I'm imagining is there'll be a lane dedicated to self driving vehicles and they're going to start kind of small. Right now what it looks like right now is bikes and scooters and shit like that and big in urban areas like cities. Yeah. Like you see that in San Francisco. I just love it now because it really feels like the Wild West. Well, you see where it feels like the Wild West still like the scooter thing. Like, you know that they're already cracking down like in San Francisco because they're just like littering them all over. So they're actually repossessing a lot of them and just taking them. So like, you know, a lot of times I saw businesses hating on it too, which I thought was so stupid. You got to love. You got to love government. But that's what I sometimes here's like, fuck you. I love it's kind of it's a little bit anarchy, you know, but it's like it's fun because it lets you kind of just, yeah, freedom. I can do what I want to do. I've been saying this forever. Technology is the greatest decentralizer of power man has ever seen. And they will, you cannot control it because these scooters are already fucking everywhere and people already love them. So now the city is going to have a fight. It's like, yeah, it's a race. That's it. Yeah, that's what I love it. Uber figured it out, man. They got there and established themselves way before they could regulate. That scooter thing to me is so brilliant, man. On a whole, I mean, it's so cheap. It's so cheap that it's like you. It feels like being a kid. You know what I mean? It's just so like you get on a scooter or what? You get on a scooter or a sidewalk. Me and Justin jumped on those things at least a couple of times now, just for fun. Oh, I have, I've already used it. I was walking from a Luna and I had to be somewhere. I had to go to, I had a haircut with that and I had to come get back really quick and I was like, fuck, I'm running late. And there was one right there. I had the app on my hand. I hit it, just jammed. I was like, I mean, I just cut my walk. That would just take me eight minutes or whatever, but it cut down to like one minute. I mean, that was, that's just, that saved me enough time. I was on time for my haircut. I was like, that was cool. Dude, can I just say something? That was cool, that just happened. If we were in like junior high and we had to go to school, walk to school every morning. Oh my God. Are you kidding me? Oh, I'd be on that. We'd be racing. Yeah, every day. Someone would die. Someone's going to die. Someone's going to die soon. That'll get in trouble. That's when they'll get in trouble. That one for sure, because I mean, you're basically like a pedestrian that's moving quick. Yeah. Yeah. Surprise they got away with it. This clause brought to you by Organifi. For those days you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition. Organifi fills the gap with laboratory tested certified organic super foods to help give your health the performance the added edge. Try Organifi totally risk free for 60 days by going to Organifi.com. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com and use a coupon code MINEPOMP for 20% off at checkout. Our first question is from K. Kaelin. What is the best way to work on hamstring and glute ham tie-in? So the glute ham tie-in, that's a... Is that a bodybuilder term? Yeah, that's like a up to bikini term. Yeah, it's a stage presentation athlete term. Hey, school me. Yeah, I don't know anything about this. That's where the glutes and the hamstrings meet. Yes. You know, right underneath the butt cheek or whatever. And there's actually... I think we take it and then build a bunch of bro science off of it, but there's a really good point to be made with this. And one is that I think... And this has been consistent with almost every bikini... Now, every bikini competitor that I've coached is always hamstrings and typically shoulders. Always hamstrings, but sometimes shoulders are a major, major focus, even if they have a lagging butt. You can't over develop them almost on a bikini. No, you can't because the more developed they become, the more it creates this illusion of this really curvy, round hamstring that tucks underneath this glute. And so it'll take a butt that's kind of flat. Kind of folds that butt. Yeah, like a girl that has a long origin and insertion, so she has a kind of a longer butt. And it'll give her this illusion that she has a more bubbly or round butt. So I think that some guys try and sound smart the way they explain it, and then it just gets bro-scienced out. But absolutely, there is some merit to it. And when I would train... It was one of the secret weapons for me as far as training. I knew how to approach it, too, over the course of training them, I would gradually increase volume in those areas and start to develop that muscle more than any other muscle we are focusing on their body. And it would really pull their backside. And since that's where bikini competitors are judged heavily on, so what will win a show for a bikini competitor is the backside, for sure. That's where it's won and lost for girls. I mean, it's not a body part. The tie-in isn't a body part. It's literally the top of your hamstring. It's a term, no. It's a term, it's a body boat term. And the bottom of your glute. Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. That junction. Yeah, here's the thing. There's techniques you can definitely do to develop, to put more focus on a muscle. The obvious answer, you know, first thing you do is you just put more focus on it and you do more work for that area. What was the question again? Let me read the question again. Don't, sorry. Yeah, what's the best way to work on hamstrings and the glute ham tie-in? Okay. I think they have underdeveloped hamstrings. Okay. So, place more focus on it, of course, but what may be happening is you have a poor connection to it and it's not firing the way you want. And one of the best ways to get more connected to a muscle is isolation movements. Compound movements in this particular situation, you know, if I have a weak activation of my lats or my rhomboids or my quads or any other muscle that is commonly used in like these big full-gross motor type movements and I have a weak connection to it, I can do all the squats I want if I have a bad, you know, quad, you know, if I'm not getting good activation of my quads, which is rare, but if that's the case, they're not going to develop that much. And I'll get the other muscles that are involved. So, isolation movements. This is where I would recommend, you know, hamstring curls and where you really focus on the squeeze at the top of the curl, really connect to the shortened part of that motion. I think pre-exhaust supersets will be great in this case. So, if you like to do lots of lunges and squats and, you know, hip thrusts but you want to really develop your hamstrings, do a superset where you do hamstring curls first where you really pre-exhaust the hamstrings and then go to the compound movement. So, it's funny that you went this way because I've had a couple girls that I've coached that had a really, really bad connection to their posterior trend. They just always quad-squatted, didn't have much glute development, didn't have much hamstrings and their entire routine with me every single time they squatted, we were always pre-exhausting with either hamstring or glute exercises whether it be bridges or glute kickbacks or doing things to target the glute meds specifically and then going in there and hitting squats with the entire routine. So, all of that was out just as I wanted them to get connected there first before they did which we know that squatting could be one of the best things to do to build the hamstring glute tie-in but a lot of people are not activating it properly. And this is all, this is bodybuilding wisdom. I mean, bodybuilding has brought us a lot of wisdom with exercise and resistance training and, you know, saw a lot of bad wisdom but a lot of good wisdom too and some of the good stuff is this, like, if you want to study a sport or a resistance training modality that knows how to activate muscle, individual muscle groups, you can't be bodybuilding. You just, you simply can't. They're really fucking good at feeling and connecting to a muscle and this is why isolation movements tend to be popular in bodybuilding or at least why you see them. Look, if you compare a bodybuilding routine to any other type of resistance training routine and I'm talking about a good bodybuilding routine like one we would design, right? You're gonna see way more isolation movements in the bodybuilding routine in comparison to the other routines because part of bodybuilding is targeting areas and sculpting and building that specific area to create this illusion. And if you're a chick and you just want to squat really good, well, you don't give a shit if your hamstrings don't have that aesthetic appeal or balance that you want because you're just trying to get good at squatting. But if you're building your body because you want to change how it looks and your hamstrings aren't developing. Of course there's a method in a way to do that. You got to get most advantageous. You got to get connected to it. What's his name? Ben Pekolsky. There were two things he said when we were, when we podcasted with the last time that was really cool. And one of the things he said was a weak body part, aesthetically speaking, an underdeveloped body part almost always has a poor connection in its shortened position. So let me, I'll put that in more layman's terms. When muscles contract, they shorten. They pull two points together. So when I flex my bicep, I'm shortening my bicep. I'm taking it from a long position to a short position. If I had poor connection to my bicep, the point of that connection where I'll feel that the weakest is at the shortened part. So if you're hamstrings, you're having trouble connecting to them or your glutes focus on connecting to the shortened part of it. So with a hamstring, that would be like a leg curl at the top. For the glutes, it would be the very top of the hip thrust. And one way you can connect to the glutes in a hip thrust is get up to the top of the hip thrust so your hips are up. But then when you're up there, go into a posture, your pelvic tilt. In other words, tuck your tailbone. So rather than sticking your butt out, kind of tuck it and squeeze your glutes at the top. Hold that squeeze at the top. Really fucking hard for like five to 10 seconds for every single rep before you do any other leg exercise. And then you'll feel the glutes fire like nothing else. This is why it's almost always been a game changer too when I take somebody who's trying to develop their calves and they do the short pumping ranges while getting them to do full range of motion of like calves and freeze the top and really concentrate at the top and then bring all the way down and concentrate at the top develops their calves like crazy. Cut the weight, a quarter of the weight what they were doing before where they're just kind of bouncing it in this weird little range all the time which you see all the time guys getting on seated calf raises and they're going through this little tiny choppy move. Yeah, choppy move in with five plates on their rocking. You take that same person, you put one plate on that thing and then you have them go all the way to the top and squeeze the top and then come back down. A lot of them can't even get to the very top with a little bit of weight. Exactly and that speaks to what Ben's point was. I 100% agree with that is just getting it in that weak point. It's also why I love training the pec deck and then doing an alternate fly where I keep one squeezed and concentrating squeeze while I open up the opposite and I alternate back and forth. It's been one of those great exercises to help not develop the chest because it's not going to outperform a incline press but get me better connected to my chest. So the incline press gets better connected. You get stronger too. Yeah, and those ranges which that's the same thing on a performance end. It's like you see people that are performing things in a shortened range of motion, whereas if we can elongate that process, get more of that connectivity, get that response. Oh, the whole movement. Yeah, the whole movement, the entire length of the contraction, it's a game changer. Yeah. So and then here's the other part of this is frequency, training frequency. So can you work a body part every day? Yep. And I don't think you can work every body part every day. Well, you could if you really adjusted the intensity, but if there's a particular body part that you want to develop, work that body part every single day. Now, adjust your intensity. That means that you're probably going to have three, you know, between two to four, I would say depending on if you were a beginner or if you're advanced, two to four harder workouts a week. But then every other day you work out as well. You just go in there and get a good pump and focus on the squeeze like we're talking. You can definitely, I did this early on when I first started lifting weight. So when I first started working out as a kid, the body part I was most self-conscious over were my shoulders. I had because I was narrow. I don't have a wide bone structure and people would poke fun at me. So the one body part I worked every single day were my delts. And I did side laterals and front laterals and rear laterals. And my delts now as one of my strongest body parts and they just responded as a result of that. And you could do that with any body part. Well, I just want to point out too, I know that we just completely answered this question and some of that, but this is exactly why and how Maps Black is designed and built. It's designed to pick one to two muscles and that you need to focus on because they're lagging. So hamstring and glute would be this girl who's asking this question right now. Those would both also in the butt builder. Yeah, you would implement that. You would implement that into the program. That's what's cool about the program is it's customizable based off of what your lagging body parts are. That's how we designed it. That's what's so cool about it is if you're somebody who is chasing any sort of aesthetics and you want to develop a specific part of your body that you think is lagging in comparison to the rest, that program was written for that to teach you how does somebody program that and do that effectively so that they actually see tangible results in their body over the course of three or four to three, two, three months. And I thought of this oftentimes because all the programs change your body. All of them get you more fit. All of them get you look better. But Maps Aesthetic is different in the sense that you have the control in terms of imagine if you have a little avatar of yourself on a computer and you can change individual body parts. So you can make it look a particular way. You wouldn't just necessarily develop every body part, especially if you're at a balance. You would develop the parts that were weaker in comparison to the others a little more. So you have this symmetrical aesthetic. That's where aesthetics come from, from that balance. And Maps Aesthetic gives you more of that control than other programs because you pick for yourself specifically what you want to work on. And in this particular case right here, I would pick glutes and hamstrings, but I would also remember to connect to the muscle, get in that shortened position. And here's what's going to happen. I guarantee you this, what's going to happen to you. You're going to get in the short position and you're going to be like, I don't know if I feel my glutes. Like I'm trying to feel my glutes. I can't feel my glutes. And that'll be your, that'll, that's how you'll know. Oh shit. My connection isn't that good. So focus on the shortened part of the of the rep or the part where you're most contracted and then try to connect and squeeze to that and do that at the beginning of workout. Bro, I can't believe that Justin lets you use his fucking Star Wars shaker cup that you just got, dude. Oh, thanks bro. Dude, I just got that. I can't believe you didn't say anything to him. This guy just helps himself to it. Well, you know what? I've been giving him an Organified Protein. He brought the Organified Protein. Justin, are you drinking that? Is he, is he drinking that? Everybody. Yeah, I get on it, but not as, I mean, you're the one that brought it so. Yeah. No, you know, it's, it's. It's the product I use the least out of all those right now. Yeah, do you use it? Well, because you used to use the vegan and I didn't mind the taste of it at all. Oh, it's the best vegan protein I've ever had. By far. You can definitely tell it's different than whey, for sure. No, no, it's, it's the best tasting vegan, vegan proteins are normally disgusting, but I, I, how often do I use it? Not super often because I might, my diet's usually pretty good, but I bring, I'll bring it sometimes on our trip. Oh, we're traveling because we miss meals so much. Yeah. And lately my training has been really, really, really hard. Yeah, you're getting after it. I've just recognized that my protein requirements, if I want to maintain this level of training are a little bit higher. And so we're working all day long. And so I'll throw in one of these shakes, I'd say every day or every other day. And I mean, you know, I have digestive issues and gut issues and it's, it's like good, feels fine. No, it's, it's definitely the best vegan protein that I've ever had, you know, for sure. But it's, the one thing I've been taking consistently. Easier on my stomach, for sure. No, the one thing I've been taking a lot of lately, I've been telling you guys, this is probably the third episode where I mentioned the, the turmeric, that I've been taking consistently now because I've noticed just a mark, just a huge benefit in my inflammation. I have ever since you said something, so I have been, so I'll, I'll give you my feedback after I've been doing it for a while. See if it affects your Achilles or whatever. Yeah, you know, it's, it's helping with inflammation for sure. And I definitely noticed that, but it's still early on for me to see before I get like too excited. Next question is from JWP2014. What is the optimal time for someone to get on gear? I've heard to stay natural for as long as possible. For example, not starting in your early 20s. Is this true? Will it affect your T levels more later down the road? If you start sooner or does it not matter? Oh, it matters. So I've heard the case. I've heard people make the case for gear doing younger, younger or older. I've heard both. Really? You've heard it for younger? Yes. I've never heard that argument. So, so at risk of encouraging people to get on gear, first off, after you hear what I'm about to say, wait until we're done with this conversation because there's a lot more to this than what I'm about to say. But the argument for going on gear in your late teens, early 20s, and whatever is that when you're at them at those ages, when you're building this huge foundation, it could place you in a situation where you have more muscle hyperplasia. It could encourage hyperplasia of muscle fiber cells. So, so muscle fibers, the way they grow is through hypertrophy, where they, they themselves enlarge. But muscles, muscle fibers may actually also split and turn into new muscle fibers. Now, how, how, and I know this happens. We've, we've studied this, we've seen this. But how common would you think that is? It isn't, wouldn't, wouldn't you say that that's something that rarely happens and there's, that is not. No, I think, I think it happens. I think it. Oh, you think it's a more common thing. Yeah. I think, I think it happens. I think it, but I think hypertrophy happens faster. I mean, I feel like I've experienced it, but I've also taken testosterone. And I've, because I, I know that like where, if I, where I'm at training, dieting wise over that, in the past I would shrink down to a certain size where now you hold on to more. Yeah. Now I hold on to more muscle mass. Let's talk about the accelerated detriments at that point. If you start that early, what was it? Is there more likelihood that? Oh yeah. I'll get there for sure. Oh yeah. I'm going to get there for sure. Yeah. No, but what happens, Justin's like, God, don't be selling this shit. No, no, because what, so hyperplasia, muscle fibers split, turn into new muscle fibers. And then if you ever stop working out, you don't lose those extra muscle fibers, right? So that may be one of the potential benefits. What are the negatives? Well, you're exposing yourself to high androgen levels for long periods of time during your youth. So your risk of, of issues with that are much higher. And here's the thing that I think for sure, if you want to fuck up your testosterone levels for, for forever, do them for a while when you're young because that almost always that's what seems to be the case. And that sucks. Let me tell you something right now. If you're a kid and you're listening right now and you're thinking like, I don't give a fuck, I'll be on testosterone for the rest of my life. Really? You really want to inject yourself every week for the rest of your life? Yeah, you want to travel with, you want to travel with syringes and fucking vials of a hormone. You want to fucking, and by the way, testosterone, when you take testosterone, it's not ideal because testosterone in the natural body naturally fluctuates. When you take testosterone, even if you take replacement doses of doses, you may have to deal with side effects like gynecomastia. You may have to deal with, you know, prostate enlargement, which you may not have dealt with if you had normal fluctuating testosterone levels, you deal with changes in the brain and all kinds of, I mean, remember, hormones are signals telling the body to do something. And if you take testosterone in your early 20s and you take them for four or five years, I don't know, man. I don't know very many people who did that who aren't now somehow screwed a little bit with their hormones. Most people are. Yeah, but I think a lot of that is because of the psychological piece, right? I think a lot of people turn that direction and then end up getting addicted to, you know, which is funny too, because I think there's as much addiction in steroids as there is in any other drug out there, even though we've proven. How can you not get addicted to that? But what's crazy is that, you know, we've said it's okay because there's no addictive properties to the actual chemical itself. I think there is. You know what's funny? I know they say that, and I've echoed that, but here's the deal. Do you get withdrawal from going off testosterone? Yeah. Yeah. Your body stopped making testosterone. So you go off, now you're in the super low testosterone state. That's a type of withdrawal, I would say, maybe not the same as like when you go off heroin or whatever, but how did it feel going on? It's a strong response. Somebody who's experienced both, I think you very much so can relate the two of them. They're different, but they definitely both feel fucking miserable. I think that testosterone was just worse because it lasts longer. How long does it take to get off of, you know? Well, when I was taking Vicodin, I came off pills. I mean, it took a while to wing off completely, you know, just like with testosterone. So it's not a quick process. It's not like, oh, you just stopped taking it. And then because the body goes, I mean, opiates are produced in your body. So naturally that gets shut down completely. That's responsible for happiness and joy and uplifting. And so imagine that being shut down completely inside of you. I mean, that's awful, right? So they both have their own. And then with testosterone, I mean, that's your sex drive. That's your driver for your libido and stuff like that. And we all know how important that is to health and wellness. And energy and confidence. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, they're equally awful to have and then to be to be to be done with. But I don't know, man. I look at it like this. Like if you're if you're in your 20s and you're you're a dude in your 20s and you really want to change your physique and you want to change because this is what motivates you to take steroids. Let's be honest. If you're if you're a kid in your 20s, you want to take steroids. You're not doing it because you have a passion for fitness and health. You're doing it. Trying to get laid. Yeah, you want to look good. Be honest. Yeah, you want to look good. You want to build muscle. You're probably insecure. Now on that point, this is the reason why because it's really hard for me to answer that question when I'm somebody who has, right, is I tell them, do yourself this favor. Put yourself in the most amazing shape you could ever possibly do in your life. Naturally, do that first. I think you'd be I think they'd be surprised. They are. They always are. That's the thing. And what they're looking for, what most people are when they're asking that question, is they're looking for the shortcut. Yeah. And so you you what you need to do is you need to say, OK, I need to prove to myself that because what doesn't change here, what steroids does do is it does. It allows people to get away with with poor dieting and poor program more so than not. Yeah. More so. You could still it's still not magic. You could. Yeah. They're still not magical. And you could still get pretty. And that's where people are disappointed is because they definitely get on. They feel it their body. They get in the best shape of their life, but it's still not the shape they thought they were going to get in. And that's because they're still missing the programming, the nutrition piece down. Yeah. They don't have that training is even shitty. That's what I mean. They're programmed. They're programming shit or nutrition. I've known more people. I've known more people get amazing. Yeah. More. I do too. More. I had a friend, you know, when I was down in Palm Springs or Palm Desert, I had it, you know, when I worked down there years ago, so I was 21, a friend of mine who worked for me, he was on more gear than he was probably taking close to what like a competitive bodybuilder was taking no job because there was Mexico was right there. They'd go down to Mexico. They traveled down there. They'd buy all this testosterone and anadrol and D ball. And this guy was taking grams of stuff a week. His training was shit and his diet was shit and he looked terrible. He did not look good and he kept thinking this gear is, you know, not working or whatever. And no, it's the same gear that this other guy over here took who's on good diet and knows what he's doing. He looks totally different and all he did was lose his hair and get gyno as a result from it. And did he get bigger? Yeah. But he looked like a big puffy. Yeah. Like it did not look good. That's what's more common. And so I think that's why it's important that you tell you teach yourself because if you can't get in your in the best shape of your life naturally, you won't get in the best shape that you think you you're going to get from testosterone. 100% if you inject synthetic testosterone in you, you'll see your bench go up. You'll see your squat go up. You'll be thicker. You'll fill out your shirts more. Absolutely. All those things is you're going to start holding a bunch of water, retaining all that shit. You're going to be eating more because your your metabolism is getting kicked up. So you're going to see a difference from it. But the moment you get off, you'll lose all of that shit because it was all artificially induced. You got away with got away with a lot of shit that you couldn't get away with. And so then you're back to either now you have to make the decision I'm going to be on steroids forever just to look like look like this a little bit better than average guy or I need to do some work on really learning about how to program and how to train my body correctly, how to eat correctly to do that. So prove to yourself that first and then and then ask why? Why do you want to do it? Because now you've gotten yourself in the best shape of your life naturally. And at that point, you still are thinking, Hey, I want to be a I want to go pro and be a bodybuilder one day. Who am I to say? It's your body. Right. It's your body. And absolutely. If you want to be a pro bodybuilder one day, you're going to have to take some of the biggest problems with steroids is that when you take them, you never really learn what really works for your body because you the steroids tend to do some of the work for you to get away with a lot. And so I know a lot of guys who they'll they'll be on gear. They'll work out. They'll respond. They'll go off gear and they're not getting good results. And then what I'll do is I'll change their workout routine, change their programming, and then their body stops starts responding again, even though they're not on on the gear. And it's because they never really learned what worked for their body. They never really understood how to apply frequency properly or intensity properly because all they know is their body how it responds at the with these high testosterone levels. Here's the other thing too. Okay. I think a male in their 20s is a terrible time to take anabolic because that is a horrible time to just blow up your ego. You already a fucking ego maniac. You've already got all this testosterone. You think you're the shit anyway. I don't need sleep. I could drink. I could fucking do whatever I want. You're gonna throw some gasoline on that fire. Yeah, you're gonna. That's a good point. And I'll tell you something. Hey, hey, think about all the dudes we knew in the 20s doing gear. What did it do to them? But just turn them into bigger fucking ego maniacs. Gorillas. Yeah, that's that's where you get the stereotype of it. So I don't. Yeah, I don't recommend it. If I think if you did everything right naturally, I think most people, there's definitely people out there who've just got terrible, you know, their bodies don't respond, but it's less than you think. Most people will be shocked. You'd be shocked if you got just a six pack because if you get lean, you're going to get a six pack, a little bit of muscle definition. You don't need to get that, that big. Take your shirt off at a fucking party and see what happens. You'll get plenty of attention. You don't need to take any, any, you know, illegal anabolic steroids. Right. And plus you'll now have the tools that if you really are going to do this crazy and serious and get into steroids and do all that stuff like that, that you're going to end up looking the way that you were wanting to look like and why you started taking that because you probably started taking it because you wanted to look like somebody on the cover of a magazine. You're not going to get awesome right away from it. There's no magic pill. No, no, no, no, no. It's the same thing with sports, too. Like, you know, a lot of guys that I found out later were on steroids. Like that were, you know, on the bench and it's like, you're still on the fucking bench. You haven't learned the skills and the hard work and the discipline and, you know, the practice and the time it takes to be good, to be great, you know, all that. Well, you have to put in real work. It doesn't matter. That's just obviously that's an advantage, but not only when you're are good already. Well, you've got to really ask yourself, too, like how knowledgeable you are in those areas because I'll tell you right now, I thought I was. I mean, I was a trainer when I started to. I was in my, I was what, 22, 23-ish when I took my first cycle. And at that time, I didn't. You're not a fucking chemist. Dude, and at that time, I'm, you know, already through three years of personal training. I've got multiple national certifications, train lots of clients. So I think I'm pretty knowledgeable when it comes to programming and eating correctly. So even in my head, I thought that I was ready for steroids or I, I'm going to take that. And that's what was because at that time in my life, I really believed that that was the difference between me looking the way I looked and then me getting to the magazine. I just assumed that all those guys have to be. They have, they've got to be on steroids to look like that. Everyone tells me that. I hear that. That's where it's got to be. And that's why I don't look that way because I already train hard. I already eat good. That's all I'm missing is that. And then when I took it and then realized, oh, shit, that wasn't the answer. It wasn't the answer at all. The good thing about that was you didn't do what a lot of guys do was they think, Oh, I just not taking enough. Right. Because that's what ends up happening. A lot of guys, well, I guess I'm not taking enough. I need to keep taking more. And let's also talk about this for a second. If you're going to get on anabolic, you're going to get them from the black market, the black market. You don't know where it's coming from. There's a lot of issues associated with anabolic that aren't necessarily even with the steroids, like scar tissue in your body. People can get abscesses. You got to buy syringes. You got to deal with all that bullshit. Like, I don't know. I mean, weigh it all out, be smart about it. And if you want to do it, it's definitely your body. But I have, I have yet to see anybody do this, do it in their 20s and later on say, well, it's probably, I probably would have been better off had I not done that. Yeah. Right. Next question is from Vincent Trong. What are your speculations on the human lifespan if all aspects of human health and wellness are optimized? That's a very interesting question. It is because do you believe that we have the capability to live like 165? I think with technology, we may be able to. I don't think naturally. Now I think if you're really, really healthy, because there's some science on this and it's obviously, and you can't be exact with this. Well, like accelerated regeneration of cells and that kind of thing, like where we start to learn that part. You know, I don't. So I think there's a time limit on the human body, right? Natural time limit. Well, that's what we were talking about last night with Mike when we were all hanging out was that, you know, some people believe that there's this exagress. Yeah. So many breasts and so many heartbeats that you'll have in a lifetime. And so, I think there's definitely this natural time limit. I think, you know, a lot of times we don't reach that time limit because we die from, you know, not taking care of ourselves or whatever. But science is pretty, studies have been done. And they've shown that if you take care of yourself, if you're fit and healthy and all that stuff, you'll live 10 years longer than your genetics have determined that you'd live. So if you were supposed to live to your 80, if you know, 80 is your, you know, maybe you can live make it to 90 or something like that. There's a, there's a definitely genetic component for people who make it to 100 and older. And that's, you know, that's partially genetic and that's partially lifestyle. But I don't know. Let me ask you guys, the better question is that, because I think technology is going to come out with ways of slowing down the aging process of replacing your organs and doing all that stuff. But let me ask you a question. How long would you want to live? I would love to live as long as we could. What if that's 500 years? I would do it. I would be down. I like why would you download your consciousness? I would. You would? I think I would. I think I would. Here's a thing, dude. I think the atom right now thinks it's a good idea. Maybe you have no idea of course. Yeah. Maybe when I'm 90, you might, but then I'll just, I'll, then I'll stop trying then to stay alive, I guess at that point. I mean, I think, I think we have, I think we have so much in this life. I think that it's constantly evolving and changing. Look in our short, almost 40 years of our life, what we've seen and changed and how cool that has been to watch that change. I don't think that'll ever, I don't think that will ever change. I think as we're getting ready to go out, I hope that I'm that 80 or 90 or 100 year old who is still, you know, up on up what's coming and what's happening with the world and stuff like that. I think I will. I think that's neat. I think I, I think I'll want to live and be a part of as many generations as I possibly can if I can take care of myself. I don't know if the only thing I can judge it based off of is, is how my 15 year old self or my 20 year old self would, would answer how I thought my 39 year old self would be or what I would like or what I'd want to do and I'd be off. I'd be way off. So I don't know. I think now it's sounds awesome, but humans have, I mean, we've never lived these super crazy long lives or just depends on how cynical you are. I mean, do you, I mean, I could also, I could see us being on a rocking chair at 90 years old too, just shaking our head being like, oh, it's, I'm so set up with the rest of the world because they're all young minded and they have so much to grow and learn and like, I'm out of here. Like I could see that too. I don't see, but 90 is even within, within, like you could live to a thousand. Yeah, like, like what if you made it's like 500, 600? Well, how much that might fuck up your psychology because, because we've never done that before. Nobody knows the answer. Yeah, but yeah, but it's not going to, we're not going to go from where we're at right now. It's all sudden 500. We're going to watch this number creep up over time. I think we're going to start seeing, you know, the 120s happen. Because what's it at now, 79 in America? Well, it depends on if the quality matches, you know, just elongating life, right? It'll, it'll, it'll naturally move with it. It'll be a moving graph, right? So, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're used for that long, right now, the average person only lives to what, 70 something or whatever. I think it's a 79 in the U.S. I believe it. I don't know what it is. 79. So say 79. And so once that moves up to, you know, 99, the people that are living in their 70s now will be living a better quality life. Because that's the only way you can in order to live 90s. So it'll all naturally go up, which I think is all great. And I think it'll be great to be at that age where I think you'll, the same thought process when we're probably 100 and, you know, 120 is a possibility. See, here's the deal. You are a growth minded individual. So am I. So if I'm going to live to 150, I'm probably going to go back to school at some point or have different careers. How crazy is that? Different things. But a lot of people, a lot of people are like, I'm 70. I want to retire and not work anymore. Why do I have to work? Or I'm bored. Yeah. But I think I think that's, I think that's also a problem with our culture right now. Is that exact thought process is that we're all working towards this retirement thing. We're all working towards the wrong thing. When in reality, when we have already the studies in front of us to prove that as soon as you retire, like the death rate starts to increase like dramatically because you lost your purpose in life. And you only lost your purpose in life because you had the wrong purpose the entire time. Yes. You were following the wrong path for 60 years and you finally retire and realize, holy shit, I was following the wrong thing. And now, now, now death is knocking at your door. Yeah, I just feel like I think we're going to approach work differently. We keep finding like how perishable we are. Like no matter what we try to do as far as our like organic body is concerned. That's why I keep thinking like, you know, this virtual reality thing where I'm like immersing myself just in my own mind, I'm constructing this environment like how that's going to become a thing even more without the need of the body being awesome anymore. I think the average person, if I'm not mistaken, if they take care of themselves and their health and they do really well, I think the average person should be able to make it too. And I can't remember where I read this, but it was like 90 was right. Like they don't get any accidents and I don't have any major genetic issues. They should make it till about 90. But yeah, it poses a lot of different questions living a long time. And I mean, are people going to want to change that much? Get married. Yeah. I mean, for a thousand years. Who exactly? Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. How many lifetimes would you know, how many normal lifetimes would you like to be? Hey, I said this like I said this like four or 500 episodes ago and you watch the future. You're talking about the least yes. Everybody marriage shouldn't be the way marriage is right. 10 years you guys go check in. I don't see why I don't know. And I know some people get all but hurt when I said that. But I mean, it's like it doesn't even conflict with like people's religious beliefs. I mean, you could just say, Hey, I'm going to be married to this person. And I mean, people are all what you made into a law anyway, by bringing the government. Right. Right. So I think we owe it to each other that every five years we look at each other and have that honest conversation. Like five years short. Yeah. It's really not though. You know me people would get divorced. I what is it? You know what? What's the divorce rate within the first five years? I bet it's the highest within the first five years. Yeah. That's why I threw a number out like that because it's it's early on. It's not if you made it 10 years, most people are like sticking with the motherfucker. It's a contract that automatically terminates unless you unless you react. Yes. Exactly. You should have the defaults to do. And that's what that's what I mean. That's what I mean by it is that we're coming up in our 10 year renewal. Yeah. Check the order. You might want to restructure it too. Right. And how many marriages with that save? Right. You have that conversation like, hey, hey, you know our marriage licenses up up in a month. You want to go down this week like, well, you know, stop saying that, dude. You know what? You're selling that and the government will jump on that because then you got to pay to read license all the time. What a great way for them to be. It's good to have to pay your marriage renewal fee. You want to stay married. And if you opt out it's cheaper. If you break contracts in between, it's more expensive and worse and more damaging for you. I just think it makes more and more sense to me. I don't know. And I and I and people that are already married and been married for 20 years like why would that why would you be so anti that like just because if you're truly in love and you want that part of your life, why is it such a big deal every five years to say like, fuck yeah, it's a little bit of accountability. Right. It's just like, do I have my shit together? Like, yeah, all my scrambling for papers. I'll tell you what. Did I go to the gym? This means I don't know. I'll tell you what though, man. She's going to come at me for this. I don't know about you guys, but I'm I'm I'm thoroughly enjoying, you know, getting older. I'm not old, right? But I thoroughly enjoy getting older and I don't, I don't dread any of it. Like I don't look forward and think, oh man, I don't want to turn being finite. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. That's why it's like, it's tough to be like, oh, we'll live forever. You know, it's just like, actually, that's it. That's a you just, that's a brilliant point. Like think about it. How much value does something have when you can have as much of it as you want? Not a lot. How much value does your life have when you know it's going to end versus, oh, I'll just live forever. That might actually encourage. See, that's the psychological part I'm talking about. Like humans have never lived fucking super long. And that's why I say, though I'm envisioning because in our lifetime, I don't think we're, for sure, I don't think we're going to find five, be able to live 500 years. I think it's possible in our lifetime that we may figure out the technology to push 120, 130, 150. So I'm not thinking like that. That's a whole different. I have a whole different answer for you if you say, what if you never died? Well, that'd be a different situation because you're right. Because in the vampire that it isn't a big deal. But absolutely, could I squeeze out, if I had the opportunity to squeeze out 20 more years? Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. By making better choices. We'll possibly live 1,000 years. Or doing what Ben Greenfield does by sticking coffee up my ass. Like, I mean, if I find out that squeezes 10 more years out. I'm definitely going to put that on Facebook. Right. Right. If Vinny lives 10 more years than me because of that, I'm going to be upset. Why coffee? You know, here's the thing. I don't know anything about the coffee enemas that I see a lot of these guys doing. Yeah, what's the deal with that? But why coffee? Who's the one that looked at coffee and was like, you know what? We're going to ask Ben. It's a brown fluid. We're hanging out with Ben on Monday. And that is for sure, we're going to dive deep into that. Yeah. That's all about the coffee. I do not want him to do it though. Yeah. Because I feel like. I encourage him. I want coffee enemas that he's doing and his dick stem cell thing I want to get into because we haven't got into that stuff with him. Yeah, nothing. Dick sticking in. And I really believe this. And we have a lot of dick in large amounts. We haven't gone deep on this conversation with Ben and I'd like to make the commitment of doing that because he does strike me as somebody who is, he's so neurotic about all that stuff that there could be like this deeper thing of fear of death and wanting to live forever. All those biohackers are. All those biohackers are afraid of death. Right. Well, we've never pushed Ben there a little bit. I kind of want to push him there a little bit. It's kind of religious though. He's religious too. Yeah. He's religious. I think he looks. He's fired. Is that what is that? What does that mean? He's fireproof. I don't know why does that change anything? Well, I don't know. Maybe he thinks it's a great. You know, it's, I don't know. Yeah. I just want to ask about the coffee in his butt. And it makes it. I'll tell you what we were in the car earlier and you guys were talking about how coffee makes you guys poop in the morning. Yeah. Imagine if it goes straight up into that area. What? Is that like instant? Like poo poo? Whoa. Yeah. It's definitely instant. Ass blown. We will go there. Hey, what was the original question? How did we get here? I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Oh, Vince. You know, Vince, that was a good question, Vince. I knew that would take everybody off on off the. That should definitely be a new thing. Ass blown. Ass blown. It's just like an emoji. Oh, shit. Next question, Doug. Oh, wow. All right. Our next question is from Johnny Dumbbells. Hey. Hey, Johnny Dumbbell. Hey. How much money would it take for you guys to sell out? What? Wait, hold on. Repeat that. Sorry. Just a little bit. How much money would it take for you guys to sell out? So he should have put. Is this an offer? Yeah. You should have put though in there because I know like everyone's going to opt out of that, right? I think you should have put like you have to sell out. Like you have to sell out. Who are you Satan? I'm going to make Adam and Justin very happy by saying something that's going to make you guys laugh your ass off, but man cannot live on bread alone, right? That saying, what does that mean, right? I knew you guys would love that. So, no. So, you know, I was watching a talk and they were breaking that down. And what's that? Sunday school lessons. Hey, dude, that's my favorite. So you know what that's, what that actually means is that actually means that you can't, you can't like money, like you can't live on just money alone. So when you, you sell yourself out, like what use is that money going to be? I mean, you have all the money in the world, but if you're not... Well, I could argue that you could take that and do something else with it. I mean... Yeah, but if you truly sell yourself out... Well, okay. So, yeah, now if you get that deep on it, I think he's looking for a number. Like if someone came in and said, all right, Sal, you're going to be pushing supplements and we know these supplements don't give people much results, but we're going to, because mine pump us so much and look like so much influence here. Here's the dollar amount. What's your, what's your number to sell your soul? Well, I mean, what's the terms? Yeah, I mean, like it always matters to me. It's your terms. Come up with it. Like, what would it, what would selling out be? I could tell you guys... So, okay. Here's the question. Are you just damaging your own reputation? Right. Or are you hurting people and ripping people off? Oh, yeah. Well, let's take this tough. The easiest selling out, because you, we could be considered sellouts without hurting people too. So just, just, just going against kind of showing you, like ruining your reputation, basically. Right, exactly. You would ruin your reputation. If you're a sellout, you're going to ruin your reputation. It's like when, it's like when rock bands from the 70s would sell their songs to like commercials. You see it on, which I don't know, I think, I think I potentially might have a number. I can tell you, I might have a number. I'm just being real, right? Oh, lack of rock. I can tell you, Bob Seager. It would take, it would take a lot. It would take a lot because... CM Adam, he's interested in your offer. Well, you first have to, I believe that we can have incredible integrity. And I believe that we are capable and on our way of building a 50 to 100 million dollar company. So somebody offering me just a hundred million dollars, which would be typically what the company should be making every year wouldn't be enough for me to sell out. So it would have to be a like change my generations of families, lives forever. So you... And so that type of money, you could, you know, you could, you could hate me and call me a sellout for the next 80 years that I'm alive. But I know that my children's children are taking care of. So here's, here's what's happening right now. So let me just explain what happened right now. So Adam, Adam, you're the, Adam has a lot of integrity. It's true. So in order for him to justify selling out, he's thinking about all the people he can help. He's becoming the martyr. And I get that. I get that. And, you know, if I'm helping other people and I don't mind doing that either. Right. But so that's why it's like, what do they mean by sell out? Like truly sell out? Well, that could never sell and hurt somebody. No, no, no. Let's take that out of the equation. I think that's selling out because that would ruin our reputation. That would be considered selling out. You don't have to go to the levels of we have to actually hurt people. That's ridiculous. Right. And I don't think anybody would sign up for that. Right. That's not like that. But that's a very honest question. And I think, and I think that's a very, I think, I think we have to ask ourselves that question. I think I love that question and I love trying to answer it because I think that we are faced with that. And I think we have to think about that because there will become a point and there already has become points. We've already experienced this in this in this right now. And we've laughed at it now because it's not a big number. People say things and it's just like, who cares? Like, that's not a big deal. We'll be making that much money by next year. You know what I'm saying? Like, so we don't even, we don't sweat it. But what if, what if someone did offer a number that literally sets up the next two generations plus of your blood, man? That's a hard. Speaking of next generation, Pepsi. What if they after that? And if it's a new generation. No, no, really, really. Let's use some. I think that's an old model. That would be considered selling out. If we started pedaling, fucking Pepsi, that would be considering selling out. And so really, because you like Pepsi, too. Well, so exactly. I would be willing to do it and be everyone hate me forever knowing that I am able to set up all of that would be a big number. Yeah. Britney Spears got some Pepsi money. Yeah. I mean, that's money. So like a shitty supplement company like what about that? Like a shitty supplement. If they could afford me. Yeah. It doesn't matter what, what this would have to be that insane amount. Yeah. It's the number. That's what matters to me. It's not the company. Because then you're thinking about what I'm selling out. I'm selling out. That's all. As long as I'm not hurting somebody like you guys. I think that's a very fair question you asked. But if I'm selling out, I'm selling out. See, I would feel like, yeah. I'm going to be hated everywhere I go, possibly spit on, possibly people started. That will all suck. But if I knew that what I was doing. You're helping a lot of people. Oh man, if I knew what I could do for. Yeah, that's different. That's a tough one. That's a very, that's a very. That's why I like the question. So I feel like I was hurting someone. So it would depend on what you mean by selling out. What I would do is I would just offer to sell the company and then I'd be done. Do what you want with the company then. You know, it would be tough for me to. Well, that could be considered selling out too. So you could say that. So I think along the same lines. You would have to consider to buy it. I'm thinking, I am thinking that way. Like the number I'm thinking no one's going to pay us a hundred million plus dollars to push a product. They're going to want the company. So, so yeah, what it would cost to sell the company. I wouldn't have a problem selling the company. If it was something that wasn't, it didn't feel like it was part of my purpose or you know, it wasn't fulfilling me anymore. I mean, that would be the goal anyway. Once I reached that point, I would be like, well, I don't want to do it. Well, we built it with the intention of that possibility, right? We built it knowing that, hey, maybe in 10, 15 years, we're not into whatever it is that we're doing right now. Yeah. And we don't want to feel trapped. It has to feel, it has to be fulfilling. I just don't see it. I just don't see it. There's not, I'm not motivated like I was for money in the past, although it's still gotta imagine right now. Imagine right now somebody, we're at Paleo FX, right? We're here in Austin right now. We go to Paleo FX and a supplement company's like, hey, I'm selling BCAA powder and here's my commercial and it talks about how BCAA powder increases your bench press by 500 pounds and you've lose, you know, 20 pounds of body fat in 30 days. He's like, look, I'm gonna pay you $5 million to pedal this shit. What a fucking, I mean, I'd laugh at it. Yeah. I'd laugh at that number. It's not even, it's to me, it has to be something because you are. You would be ruining your reputation in a space that you absolutely, like forever in this space, right? Because technically you go off and do something else. I mean, you could totally go. What happened to Adam? He's still in shoes now. Yeah, right, right. I mean, you could, you technically could go do something else, but you would be ruined in the space that we claim to love. I mean, if we truly love helping people like we say we do and we've been doing it for as long as we have, I would be knowing that I'm fucking over all those people. I would be having to really take care of the ones I love the most in order to do that. That's the way I look at it. And even if it's not that extreme where we're technically fucking people over and we were to even sell out, let's just say sell to a couple other fitness guys that are wanting to take care of people not knowing what direction they could take. It could be a supplement company. Sure. It would have to be a hefty number, man. I don't think any of us would want none of us have any desire to walk away from this thing for any number. I don't know when it when it comes to selling out like that, a lot of people have done it. Rock bands have done it. You know, you've got a lot of, you know, athletes have done it or whatever. But selling out to hurt people. I could never do that because no amount of money would would would would make that feel okay to me. You know what I mean? I'd have to live with myself like that would suck. I could have the biggest mansion in the world, all the money in the world but every day I'd have to be like, fuck man, I hurt. I bullshitted that many people or hurt that many people or ripped all those people off like. Yeah. But that would get that would get subsided really quick when you're rocking on your rocking chair and you're looking at all your family on your fucking multi million dollar and they're playing with their kids and they're hanging out and they're long. Oh, but hurting people is what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. That was I think you guys shouldn't even have thrown that in there because I don't think that's even a question for any of us that we would ever do anything that could potentially hurt people like that. I think selling out for us could just mean selling the business and walking away from it and allowing someone to do whatever they want with the advertising. If people are honest, most people have a price for something like that. Everybody has, I think would have a price. I think everyone does and I think you're lying to yourself and of course everybody likes to say like, oh, I would never. I would never. I would never. Like really dude, come on. And I think it's again, I think it's an important question to always be kind of challenging and asking ourselves because we're always caught in moral dilemmas of what is best for everybody else, what is best for myself? And sometimes they line up and sometimes they don't and you have to ask yourself like, you know, am I am I doing something selfless right now? Or am I going to do something selfish? So I think it's a very healthy question to ask and I think people that try and fucking act all mighty about it like, oh, cool, would never see it happening too. And, you know, times like goes sour real bad, you know, and like you're in this spot where like things are gloom and you're like, somebody offers you something like that to resurrect things to get your life back in order and all this. And it's all selfish, selfish intent at that point. You know, even though these, so it's like, you know, I don't know, judging it too hard. It's kind of tough because like, I know a lot of people out there that have probably considered selling out like maybe they were like, that was like literally like a blessing from from heaven coming down. So who knows? I agree. Well, so check this out. Go to your app store get the Mind Pump Media app so that you can search all of our episodes for whatever topics you want to learn about. So you can literally pull up the app and you can type in fat loss, muscle gain, whatever you want to learn about and it'll pull up every episode we've talked about that particular topic and it's free. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. 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