 So, hello everyone. Sorry for the trouble coming in, but glad you're all here, safe and well. So, I'm going to start with a little bit about agile stationery just to give you a little bit of context. We are a family business that was started, or we've been trading a few years now, sort of it started as a hobby business and grew and grew in terms of the number of products and the amount of interest and the amount of time that we dedicate to it. We started off literally making stationery and to remember those physical boards that we used to have when we shared physical spaces, optimizing those for clarity and legibility and optimizing them as information radiators. And we, we got into games such as estimation poker and grew from there really so we have a focus on facilitation and enabling collaboration and giving people reasons to come together to explore problem spaces. And we're big believers in the power of paper to create and a big believer in power paper games to guide people through complex problem spaces. So we're really happy to be working more now with Jeff. Fantastic. Thank you Simon. So yes, Jeff, thank you for for coming to this workshop. I want to hear about you. So Jeff is an enterprise coach with interest in agile project product management psychotherapy and business psychology. He was also the first UK's first certified scrum trainer and helped to co create organic agility, which is a framework to help organizations evolve a more resilient state. He's the author of many books. He talks about the collaboration scrum product team and pun mastery, as well as coaches casebook with Kim Morgan which focuses on common personality traits that coaches encounter. So, we're very pleased about Jeff is here to talk about to have his exercises which looks at discovering a core values and exploring persuasion techniques. Jeff, Jeff to talk us through these techniques that he's created. So, Jeff, welcome. And look forward to this session with you. Thank you very much. It's good to be here. Excuse my slightly husky voice. I've been slightly out of my comfort zone today and I've been talking a lot more than I've been listening normally my day spent a lot more listening and talking but I've been talking a lot today so Yes, I'm sure it'll hold up but I'm going to, I'm going to go through the the slightly painful process of can I share my screen can you see my screen. And everything like that so does that look okay you can see a slide. You see a picture of a dog. Okay, cool right then that wasn't too painful. Yeah, so to piggyback on to the onto what Simon was saying. I'm also a big fan of collaboration of big fan of exercises tools games, anything that can kind of abstract supplement complement visualize what we're doing and introduce an element of tactile and interactive formats. So, as well as, as well as writing. Excuse me like David said I also spent a lot of time creating different things that try and help different people from scrum masters to product owners to developers to team leaders to organizational leaders in various things. Basically whenever I try and have a bit of downtime. My brain runs a little bit wild icon of a stupid idea and I ended up turning turn into some kind of product so. I've got all sorts of different physical decks with some which which I enjoy playing with, and even turn them into digital versions, because we're not always physically co located as we used to be and would like to be. I'm here predominantly to talk to you about two of these physical decks of cards that that I use with people and give to people to try and help them with a couple of pretty common and important but sensitive and potentially even controversial aspects of their work, regardless of their role. So, I'm going to talk to you about core values and how we can go about finding out what our core values are why it's important to find out what our core values are, both as individuals and team members, and I'm also going to look at what I called my persuasion pack which is set of influencing techniques based on neuroscience to help you become more influential to become more persuasive to be to become a more effective change agent. And maybe, maybe this will help you at work maybe it will help you outside of work. I don't know. But I think it's, these are both two topics that are really important and I'm glad that I was invited to talk about both of them together. And I'll say more about that later on because I think they should be taken in conjunction with one another. The thing is that we're all, we've all got values. And while I believe that I think some of us are a lot more conscious, a lot more mindful about what our values are than others. And in my experience, it's the people that are more mindful of what their values are, and more mindful about working and living in line with those values that tend to be a lot more effective. A lot more fulfilled, and a lot more respected by other people. As you can see on here, I'm sure that you could find someone who's been accredited with this quote but I think so many people have been credited with it. It's difficult to say who originally said this, regardless, I think it's important. This idea that if you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything. And it's, it is quite easy to, to be manipulated, sometimes consciously sometimes unconsciously by other people but also by ourselves. It's easy to fool ourselves into acting in what we think is a good way or a good direction but actually isn't in our own strategic best interests. So my, my goal first of all is to is to help people be a lot more clear on what their values are what they do stand for, so that they connect more coherently. And with a lot more integrity. And this, generally speaking, you know, I'll spend a lot of my time. I split my work in lots of different directions. I do a little bit of teaching now and again, I do some writing, but most of my time is spent coaching either coaching individuals or leadership teams, usually leadership teams that are trying to create a more resilient culture. Just if you can mentioned. So a lot of my time is spent working one to one with people, which is where I enjoyed enjoying myself and a lot of a lot of the time. It comes back to values for me. It could just be the lens that I'm looking in or looking through but we're operating, most of us at least on this call are probably operating in what you, what the consultants would call a vocal world something that's highly complex fast changing volatile ambiguous, where we can't really rely on standardizing best practices. When we need to figure out what to do we can't rely on a do this do this do this. We can't tell people in the situation you should do this you should do this you should do this. So, if we're going to try and create any kind of coherence, while enabling and allowing greater autonomy we need to be relying on values and principles to guide our decision making process on a case by case basis. In my coaching, certainly the individual level I do come across a lot of people who are answering yes to a lot of these questions you know they are feeling unfulfilled or they're not quite sure why, but they do have a certain level of frustration or resentment with their colleagues or themselves, you know they regret some of the actions they've been taking or the action that they haven't been taking. They get overwhelmed because they're taking on too much or they're struggling to know what to focus on because they've got so much that they could be focusing on everything seems to be important and they will often complain of being easily taken off track and distracted and feeling dominated by other people. One of the first things I'll do when coaching these people is to try and get a better understanding of what their values are not for my benefit, although it is quite interesting, I have to admit. And it can also be quite useful information for our coaching relationship going forward, but it's more important for those people down coaching to be able to understand themselves better. And once they do that they can then use the values that they're more aware of now as sort of guiding principles if you like for making these decisions on a contextual basis. While they're navigating these complex and ever changing environments and making really important decisions not just at a tactical level but strategic level around their projects their jobs their careers their lives. And it seems quite fundamental and but very important and quite sensitive. So these this deck of values cards that I created obviously, I mean I've got 50 in this in this deck right and they've all got a picture, cool picture that lovely colors and everything and with 50. But it's not but it's still not exhaustive. So you can, there's some blank ones in there where you can create your own. And if we were all in a room together, you know we might play with all 50 but still that that's quite a lot. But what I would ask them to do is go through that deck of cards, one at one at a time, and just let that value speak to them. So you and I may look at, for example, community. And that could mean something very different to me or you I'm not going to describe it. The point of the point of it is not for me to describe what community means. It's trying to to get some resonance with whoever is going through the exercise. And I challenged them to see if I can get this to work. It's a little bit of multimedia into my presentations these days. So it's a difficult exercise. On the face of it, it seems quite important. Sorry, it seems quite easy to just prioritize them. But they will be taking those 50 cards and separating them into a pile of more important to me or less important to me seems quite easy, but it's quite difficult because all of those values are potentially positive. And as any of you who've worked in an agile team will find probably quite common prioritization is not an easy skill, not something that we find a lot of people who are highly skilled quite ruthless you have to be quite ruthless. And once they've done that they've created two piles these are more important to me these are slightly less important to me. They'll be asking to do it again, until maybe even again and maybe even again, until they're down to just six, six that are really important to them, harder than it looks. But once we've got that we can then hopefully we can then start using them right. So let's have a little go at this. Obviously, I don't have all 50 cards on the screen here that would be impractical. I don't have the opportunity to give you all 50 cards in your hand right now so I'm going to have to improvise a little bit we're going to we're going to try this on a slightly scaled down version. I'm going to ask you to pick 10 on the screen. Now I said normally with a group with a set of 50 I'd asked you to pick six. I'm going to ask you to pick three. Your top three from these 10. I'm not going to ask anybody to tell me what they are. Okay, you won't have to share this with anybody else. Just a couple of minutes to just think about which of these 10 are most important to me to who I am to who I want to be when I'm at my best. This is a part of who I am these are core values to me. You're only allowed three. Couple of minutes. If I was in any way good with technology, I would be playing some nice little game show music during this little interlude. Or tell you some some funny little anecdotes just a while away in the time. While you're looking at these pictures of a person standing on top of the mountain or hitting a bullseye. Or one of those strange weird physical embraces from years gone by. We were allowed to make contact with one another. I'm looking at it all desert island where you could just one way a little bit of peace and quiet, a little bit of me time. Maybe you drawn towards paintbrushes, creative aspect. Just three. Sometimes people like to play them off against each other. They'll put their pair them up and pick a winner. It goes through to the next round. Some people like to eliminate the least favorite first. There's no right way. There's no wrong way. As long as you're happy with them yourself. Okay, I've got no way of knowing whether any of you are doing this or not. I'm not putting them in the chat. Oh, there's people in the chat. Let me have a quick look at the chat. I don't want to ruin anything. Okay, so I'm going to assume you've done that. Now, once I've done this with the people that I'm coaching. This could be an individual. This could be a team. Once I've done that. I'm going to try and solidify that a little bit more. What I mean by that is I'll ask them to think of it a real example, a real story. From recent past, where they've actually illustrated those values in practice. It may well be that they need a separate story for each of their six values. It may well be they've got a couple of stories where they've incorporated all six of them. But they want a couple of stories where they can say, and here is an example of where I put this value into practice. And they'll just repeat that to themselves and they'll capture it. Maybe they'll repeat it to me. So I've got a bit of an insight into them. After that, we might then reflect on, so how well do you think you're living these values right now? How happy are you with the level of inclusion and sort of walking the talk, if you like, with regards to your values? You are for each of them. And that could be in different circumstances. So for example, if one of my values was creativity, I may feel that actually at work, I'm not being quite creative at the moment. But outside of work, I'm learning a new musical instrument. I've been dabbling with some new doodling apps on my tablet. I feel I'm living my creative value more outside of work than I am inside of work. So different circumstances, maybe even different projects, maybe even different times of work. Perhaps I'd be living those values differently and it could help to separate that out. So I'm going to try and create some stories and also do a bit of a self-baseline benchmarking assessment of how well we're doing with them. Just to get you to experience this yourself, because I think this is important. I want you to just think of one story from your recent past, the last couple of months, something that you can really remember. It's still vivid for you. These values into practice. So you've picked three. Maybe you can think of a story where you've got all three. One situation where I was creative and I helped others and I was challenged. Maybe there's one. If you can, just go through your head, the little bullet points of that story. What happened? Who was involved? How did it come about? How did you feel while you were there? What was the situation? How did you get through it? What was the resolution? Just solidify that story in your head as a sort of benchmark of when you were at your best when you're putting those values into practice. If you can't get all three, don't worry, just pick a story where one of them or two of them are involved. And then I want you to give yourself some kind of score out of 10 for how much you think you're incorporating or living that value currently. And if it helps, because there is a difference, then split it out. Give yourself a score for in work and out of work if that helps. If your work is really, very varied. And in some circumstances, some projects or some teams, some of those values are being more incorporated than others, then separate them out as well. It's not a case if there's a specific formula here, it's about trying to find something that's maybe useful for you. Maybe 30 seconds or so just to do that. Maybe you're doing this in your head, maybe you're writing it down, maybe you're doodling it, whatever. But just thinking it through is the most important thing. Once we've done that, we can then start thinking, how can we be more proactive in this? So we've got a benchmark, we've got a baseline. Maybe we could start looking at how well we're doing going forward. Maybe we start keeping a weekly tally, a daily tally of situations where we've put our values into practice. Maybe we make a conscious effort to try and put those values into practice more proactively rather than just waiting and see what happens. But often just being aware and being more mindful of it means that we do tend to bring them in a little bit more and that can be enough. Maybe we could look and see if there's any patterns there. Why is one value not finding its way into our daily or weekly habits as much as the others? Does that bother us? Is this something we'd like to do about that? Is there something we would like to change about our situation to make that easier for us and make it more likely? And that looks like the same. Of course, that's just on an individual basis. So that's me working with one person. But the principle effectively remains the same when we're talking about teams. So every individual has their own core values. But if we're going to work together as a team, it's probably quite useful for us to be aware of what our teammates' values are. Because as well as being able to make sure that we're living our values, we don't really doing that at the expense of the people. So again, there are many ways to do this, but the simplest way is just to get everybody to learn this exercise individually and look for overlaps. Look for patterns. Look for common values amongst ourselves. And see what we can incorporate into our own common team values. Sometimes I know we'll actually select more than six if they're going to look for common values to give them greater chance of overlap. I know some teams get really quite scientific about it, and they'll have sort of tier one values, tier two values, and a tier one value carries twice as many points as a tier two value and we're looking for the maximum number of points for the team. So you can take this however you like. I'm quite a simple person, really. I try to keep things simple because that's all my brain can handle, but for me, it's really important to have a set of team values. But I'm wondering whether this is something we could, taking a bit of a gamble here, technology, whether this is something we could, we could see what you think. What benefits are there to having a set of core values as a team. Now that is a QR code, hopefully. Will this work? Will this work? Are we scanning it, Jeff? Should we all do it? Yeah, you should scan it. Still on the screen. What do you see when you do that code? What benefits are there to having a core, a set of core values as a team, type your answer. Brilliant. So let's see what people come up with, what benefits are there to having a set of core values as a team. You can create alignment. I read these out to begin with, because I can't share both screen. I probably could if I was clever. Togetherness. We can learn more about each other. The team will know what makes people tick. It's important to the people you work most closely with. We're going to common set of principles, have some shared expectations around behaviors. Create a common value system. We can discuss and reflect on values. We can act more as a team, have better collaboration. I'm just going to switch my share so you can see this come through now. Did you want audience members to type in their answer to the question? Yeah, I think they are. So I'm just going to try and share this one here so you can see them come through. Can you see them? It's very small, but we can see something. A couple of people including me seem to put it into the Q&A section rather than the poll. No worries. I like it. So don't, I'm pleased with that to me. I'm trying to incorporate two bits of technology. So what benefits are there? So for me, one thing I see very infrequently is actually teams doing this. I don't see teams having that conversation about what do we value individually? What do we value as a team? And because, for me at least, teamwork is such a big thing for organizations that are trying to cope, just cope, but thrive in a complex environment. It's fundamental to actually getting past a working group to be at least appreciative and aware, and not actively working towards your teammates values. I'm going to ask you now if there are any particular questions that would be worth covering before we move on to persuasion. The questions in the Q&A panel are a little more abstract. Okay. Very relevant to that. Anything in the chat? Ah, okay, so selecting the values. As we confuse values with wishful values. Well, for me, that's an interesting point. I think these values, there's nothing wrong with them being wishful values. I think having an ideal view of what we want to be is a good thing. I think it's more dangerous if we're not seeing reality in terms of our application of those values. We're just deluding ourselves that we're acting more in line with our values than we actually are. But that's another benefit of being part of a team, is that we can have that conversation. We can share our perspectives. We can feedback to one another on that. Cool. Right. I'm going to move on to my second pack, and this is the more controversial. Are you ready for a little bit of controversy? Are you all right with this guy? This is on your channel, right? This is going to look on you. So I'm a big believer that we are all politicians. Now, this usually upsets people. Not the fist. But in fact, the idea that we're all politicians, most people have a sort of guttural reaction to that thought. However, I'd like to ask you, have you ever thought about what to say or how to say it before sending an email? Do you have a CV or a LinkedIn profile? Do you ever put any thought into what clothes you're going to wear today? Because if you can answer yes to any of those questions, then I would suggest you are to some degree political. Try to influence people. Not in a bad way. And this is the thing. We're not here. I'm not here to tell you to manipulate people. And that's why I said it's really important that we look at these two things together. Because influencing is something that we're all doing every day. We're trying to persuade people all day every day. But if we have a strong set of core values, then we can be confident that we're doing that with integrity. And one of the reasons I don't think we engage with this mindfully is because we have at least an unconscious, but for some of us quite a conscious aversion association with politics, whether that's politicians that we are, that we see in the public eye, whether it's the national political systems of our country that we're disaffected by whatever it is, but also we fear crossing the line of manipulation. But when I'm working with, when I'm coaching people in an agile context, from a servant leadership perspective, good servant leaders, don't worry about crossing that line. They don't fear, they don't need to fear crossing that line. I think just as an example, a scrum master is was defined as a servant leader. I think it's a much bigger part of agile organizational leadership now than just scrum masters. I think the principle of of enabling leadership is much bigger than a scrum master. And the part of their role is to make change happen. I think part of the product and his role is to make organizational change happen. I think the biggest part of a traditional leaders role now is to make cultural change happen on a consistent continual basis. Procedural changes, habitual changes, whatever any kind of change takes effort. And it takes skill. And I think influence and persuasion are fine. I don't think manipulation is fine. I think one of one of the things that I like to start with with people when it comes to talking about influence is bringing up the topic of politics and asking them how they feel about the idea of being a politician about being involved in organizational politics. And just basically teasing out from them what they associate with the words. I think there's a more helpful and more positive and more constructive definition of organizational politics. Something that we actually need to be more mindful and conscious of in order to make change happen. And not just happen, but happen quickly. So, looking at the greater good of the company. Again, at the risk of repeating myself really, really important to know what our values are to know what we stand for. So we know where that line is. I think almost all of you in this webinar today will have the need at some point to persuade somebody to back an idea of yours, or you will want to or need to change someone's mind about something. Or you'll want to make something different happen. Or perhaps you're trying to make something happen, and you're trying to understand why people just aren't coming along with you. It's absolutely not it's a no brain. Why would anybody in their right mind resist this idea is brilliant. But you're still getting resistance. If you want to understand why that is, we need to understand how people make decisions, why people make decisions, how people influence, how people change their minds, why people change their minds. Well, maybe you just one of those people that is fed up with other people seeming to know how to push your buttons and get you to do what they want. And you want to understand how they understand your mind better than perhaps you do. So I put together a number of techniques and tools based on neuroscience that have been shown to increase the effectiveness of our ability to change people's minds influence people to persuade people, but also to stop ourselves from being very easily manipulated. I'm trusting you to use this knowledge with integrity. And the man's man said, with great power comes great responsibility. Someone in the Spider-Man film said that. So I want you to have a think about someone you'd like to influence. All right. And I'm going to talk through a few of these cards, a few of these techniques. And maybe some of them you think you know what. Yeah, that could be useful to me. But I think bearing in mind by values, my integrity, I don't think that's manipulation. I think that's for the benefit of the organization for the benefit of all actors. I think that would help. Okay. I guess their thoughts effectively these are patterns, right. And if I can, if I can empathize with the person that I'm trying to convince if I'm trying to influence trying to persuade. And I can, if I can show them that I understand why they might be concerned or wary or worried or anxious about the idea that I have in mind. It shows that I care about them. It shows that I'm on their wavelength. It shows that I'm not just trying to whitewash them and then bamboozling. Okay, I've considered their perspective. And it also gives them some confidence that I'm taking into account risks. And that all of that stuff increases their opinion of you, which in turn increases their opinion of your idea. Now they're still free to reject it. They're more rounded, more positive view of the situation. Okay, now once you've heard their concerns, and you've shown that you empathize with their concerns, it's quite important that you don't just thought them off as petty or pointless or silly. Right. But if we've got it, if we've got some empathy with them and we've got a plan for how to tackle them. Things might become a little bit easier. So that's one, guess their thoughts. The second one, identity alignment. Now, what this means is basically tying your idea to what they value, the kind of person they would like to be, what we know about them as a person. So coming back to our core values again, if I know that someone is really, really attached to the value of quality. And my idea, as the potential to raise quality, then I can just make that more visible, more transparent. Again, you have to make the decision as to whether that's influence is okay, or not. But helping them see what's useful, helping them see what's beneficial, and helping them get more benefit from your idea. Being able to empathize with the difficult situation they're in. Being able to empathize with the fact that this is difficult choice, it's a difficult thing for them to change their mind or go along with this new way of working or go along with your new idea. You can empathize with that, but you can offer them a values based way out or values based way of changing their mind. So that's the second one. The third one, social proof. So this is basically saying, and you'll have come across something like this. So if you can remember, this is probably not a good example anymore, but down the bottom there it says hotel users used to put in your hotel rooms, 85% of people in this hotel reuse their towels. So it's a good thing if you want to be part of the normal crowd, right, you don't want to be one of those. Is it so bad people who don't reuse their towels, 80% of people in this room reuse their towels so you have this sense of social proof when you walk past the restaurant and you see people in the window. Come May 17. It's a sign that other people think this is a good thing. So it's, it's less of a risk for me to join in. Provide some element of social proof makes it more attractive makes it less risky. I'm not talking about manufacturing social proof here. I'm talking about actually gathering some data that makes it more comfortable. Some real things. The next one, the white coat syndrome. I'm, I'm generally met with two responses. When I'm, when I'm speaking to people in an organization for the first time. The first responses, Jeff, you know nothing about what goes on in our organization. You don't know anything about us as a business. You're just talking about generic textbook stuff or you're talking about other organizations, their situation is nothing like ours, not going to listen to. They only value people from their tribes opinions. The other reaction I get is Jeff, you just said exactly what we've been saying, but they're listening to you because you're an outsider. Now, both of those are examples of the white coat syndrome, but for different people. Because the white coat syndrome does come from the idea of the medical white coat people trust doctors, they've studied and they should be because they've studied for a long time. Good backing and good knowledge and good intelligence and Hippocratic oath and all that kind of stuff, but they have some authority, not formal authority necessarily, but informal authority. So finding out who's opinion. These people respect. And seeing whether they have anything to say about your idea. That could be helpful. Sometimes it's not what you say is who's saying it. So thinking about that. If I have more time, I tell you about some really interesting studies about people just dressing up in uniforms and going around parks and telling people what to do people just listen to people in any kind of uniform to know what uniform is. If you notice in the in the top right hand corner here, there's a picture of a cat that the background is red. So I've color coded these cards in terms of either difficulty or risk. So this is one of the riskier or more difficult ones. It's called peaking superstition. It's always been brought up that it's bad luck to be superstitious. But I do know a lot of people that are superstitious and how and actually let superstitions influence their beliefs. This is one of those risky ones because this is quite this is quite close to to the line for many people, but we could make use of people superstitions to help them. Help them make a more beneficial decision for them if they are influenced by superstitions. And I said down the bottom there when you couple that with the principle of identity alignment. Maybe maybe it become even more powerful. So is there something to do with patterns we tend to see patterns we tend to see clusters we tend to draw connections when there aren't any want to explain the unexplainable. Sometimes a superstition is an easy way to do that. So those are those are your five. And I want you to think about someone you'd like to influence. I want you to pick one of those cards and think how could I use this pattern to help me be more influential with that person while fitting with my values. Okay, again, I'm not going to ask anybody to read this out. But if anybody does want to show in the chat, you're more than welcome. 30 to 60 seconds will have a quick look through the chat. And I also wanted to try this one. And So it's the same code. So if you go back to that same Slido, the question now should be what are the benefits to the organization. Not just to use an individual. If you were to become more influential and persuasive. What benefits could there be if you were to become more influential and persuasive. See what you come up with. First of all, can anybody confirm that they can see that question. Brilliant. So benefits are starting to come in, seeing faster decisions, more collaboration, better leadership, more likely to do the right thing because I know what that is. A better culture, happier staff, better products, happier customers, more engaged people, more value, more visibility, more alignment. Work would get done quicker, more propensity for experimentation and learning or cohesiveness. Easy to be heard. Lots and lots of benefits. If you were to become influential and persuasive. And again, these aren't just selfish benefits. These are benefits to the organization. If you have become more influential and persuasive. Assuming I was doing it in a productive way, I'd like to think we would see higher performing teams. Yes, we can influence the situation, we can influence people in a more ethical way. Good. Thank you. Back to this one. And open up to questions. So, how do you want to do this, Simon? Well, I was going to say, we've got some interesting questions on Q&A actually. So, she'll be trying some of those questions. And there were some questions posted on the core values as well. So, anonymous attendee, when do you come back to the team values? Is this something you do every retro, one supporter, what do you suggest? Personally, my default response to any of these types of questions is I asked the team. So, I would ask the team when they would like to come back to them. For me, if I'm in the role of coach for that team, it would always be quite visible. So, I've actually got a sticking up here of the six values of one of the teams that I'm coaching at the moment, just to develop a reminder for me. So, when I'm in a session, when I'm just observing, when I'm seeing things, perhaps I'm seeing Slack messages pop up or emails pop up or something. I have them to hand so that I can maybe even push back to the team or even highlight to the team. So, just looking at your values, is there anything going on here? How are we doing with that? This is coming across to me as something a bit conflicting, as it can be across to you as that. But yeah, we could have a very focused session on these things because they can change. They can change as the team matures or the team composition changes. And so having that regular check-in, maybe every month, every couple of weeks might be too frequent. But equally, I've seen teams pick one value and use that as a theme for a retrospective. For example, creativity, they'll use that as a theme for a retrospective. Or they'll have it as part of their monthly theme, as well as their sprint goal. They might have creativity as their focus or challenge as their focus. How are we going to incorporate more of this particular value over this period of time? Go on, David. Well, I've interrupted that, I suppose. But it's just interesting you mentioned team values. Because when I think about team values, then one is you can aspire to have team values. As you said earlier, we pick creativity as a team value. And one is you can derive the team values by looking at individual values and then aggregating that information somehow by finding out what the common values are and this is what your team is made of. So when you refer to team values, and when you talk about doing this exercise at a team level, do you mean pick your team values? Or do you mean go and do this exercise individually and then we will derive our team values? So using these stack of cards is one way that I've helped teams come up with their team values. The exercise that I've described here. There are many other ways of helping a team come up with their core values. The point is having something that works. Quite often a team have got something already and we can just reflect on them or we want to inspect and adapt them. So let's just run with that as an example. So we'll run this core values exercise with each individual. We'll get the individuals to share those values amongst themselves. And then using that as a starting point, what could we come up with? It could be that we list them. For example, I've seen teams then cluster them and say, do you know what? Achievements quite close to this one. So achievement and challenge, they're kind of the same area for us as we interpret them. If we group them together, what different label would we give that one? And they will do it that way. It's good. Well, it's more than good. It's very good. But it's still quite abstract. So personally, when I'm working with a team, I will also challenge them to say, as well as the stories. I think of some examples of where you as a team have actually lived these values. Think of some examples of stories that you could create over the next couple of months that would show you're living these values. I'd also be looking for specific commitments. But each member of the team would be comfortable signing up to that would you could see, you can see visible examples of that. That would that would be examples of them actually living those values. So if we picked creativity, for example, so give me an example of what creativity might look like as a team that all of you as individuals as members of this team would be happy to commit to come up with some different examples. Maybe I said, okay, well, in sprint planning, we'll always do a drawing of our potential solution before we start, or someone else might say, okay, well, before we make any decision, we'll always come up with at least five options. That's creative. Someone might say, okay, well, we're always going to wear different hats in our planning sessions, so we always think from different perspectives, whatever it may be. They come up with some different options, but they're more concrete, they're more specific that they say, yeah, I'm happy to commit to that for a sprint. I'm happy to commit to that for a sprint. Then we've got it. And then we can start looking at what did that help. So, like we're still studying this value and living this value a lot more as a team, and even more importantly, is that helping us. Interesting. Great. Thanks, Jeff. She wants some other questions. Simon, do you want to take the next one? There was a short follow up that I'm conscious of time, but there's a short follow up from Sharon who asked what's the relationship between the core values and the team charter. What is it done on top of that? And then I'd like to take the question from Max, which goes into whether you're working in the team or the organization. Cool, no worries. So Sharon's question is this different to the team charter on top of the team charter. I would consider this a part of a team charter. And team charter means different things to different people, but when I think of a team charter, I think of like a number of different components that define us as a team. So it could be a name, it could be a motto, it could be a logo, it could be values and principles and behaviors and commitments and all different aspects, whereas this is just just one part of it. I think it's probably the most important part of it. I think it's more important than having a team name. I think it's more important having a team logo, although I do think those things are important. I think it's more important having a team motto, but it's just part of that definition of a team, but I think it should be the fundamental core of that team charter. Where did you want to go next? So Max Vicknell asked a question, hi Max, I know Max. But I didn't spot, I've already given this question. Sorry, I didn't spot his name before finding the question. Change within a team feels like a much more safe space for coach to play. And more often than not, the agenda for that change is already there. At the org level, this is much harder. What different techniques do you apply when creating an agenda for an organization or cultural changes? So, essentially, this is one of those famous things where I say it's exactly the same, but very different. Because in principle, it's the same. All right. So what we're looking for generally when I'm working with an organization to help transition their culture to something more conducive to at least survive if not thrive within this kind of vocal world. The balance that we're trying to strike at the organizational level is greater autonomy without chaos. We still want coherence, but we also need autonomy. We can't wait for everything to be escalated up and then back down again. And even if we could, the expertise probably isn't the top anymore. It's probably at the cold face. So we need to enable those people who have the skills and the knowledge and actually encountering the problems to be able to make educated decisions, but in a strategic way. So although team A may be facing very different problems, very different challenges on a very different piece of work to team B. So they're going to be making context very very different decisions because they're facing different situations. They should be making those decisions with common values and common principles and depending. So this, and that's exactly the same as within one team. Although just on a much smaller scale. So even in a small team of seven right self organizing scrum team for example, individual may be making decisions on a daily or hourly basis. They don't need to get consensus and go through planning poker and then yeah, does everybody we need majority. I have authority to make decisions at an individual level to agree. But I want to make sure that I'm not undermining other people. I'm not contradicting those people. I'm not causing tension by going off and completely in directions, which is where these common values come in. So I can make decisions I can have autonomy, but we have the consistency at the values level. And those values are not just around things like honesty, trust, they're around experimentation when there isn't a right answer, for example, or minimizing making, making learning, learning honestly and cheaply as possible. That could be a value, for example. And having that conversation at an organizational level provides that level of cohesiveness provides that level of consistency that allows contextual decisions to be made without slowing things down. Now that may perfect sense in my head, but did it make sense when it came out my mouth. We were just discussing offline to be honest with you whether to take one more question. So we had picked out the question for Colin. If you've time, Jeff. Yep. What do you recommend if you discover team members have radically different values. So again, I'll start with my default of, it's not really my place to decide what to do with that information. But I would play that back. What I will tell you is, I've seen different responses to that different successful responses and different unsuccessful responses. So I've seen successful responses where that team has stayed together, and they work through those differences of values. They've used a common third value, for example, around respect or something like that to to work out ways where we can can work cohesively without without sabotaging. I've also seen successful outcomes where the team decides, you know what, it would probably be better if we worked in different teams, not because I don't like you. But actually, just out the differences that we've got, while differences does bring diversity and useful, sometimes we can be too different. And it takes too long to us for us to actually work together. So let's let's just agree to part ways now rather than try and force ourselves to work through a really tense process of going together. And I think that those have been quite successful. The unsuccessful situations have been where that difference has been glossed over. So we check that's that's an awkward conversation. Let's not have it. Let's pretend we didn't see that. Or let's rationalize it in a different way without actually dealing with it. It can be difficult. It can be something that we need some help with sometimes. It needs to be dealt with delicately and tactfully sometimes, but equally with a fair amount of adult level respect that we are all good people. We all want a positive outcome. And we just are different human beings. No one is meaning anything bad by this. I guess these are used in interviews, Jeff. That's what I'm hiring. Or is that using them in interviews is the interviews are often a game. So they're not really a safe space because we have, we have something quite substantial to lose. Either I risk hiring somebody that turns out to be a bad hire, or I risk losing a job that I really, really want on me. If it felt safe, brilliant. I think it's a great way. This is a really, I suppose it could be seen as quite a negative way of looking at it, but failing fast. I'd rather find out that my values don't match the organization's values and vice versa, before we make any kind of commitment, because undoing something is a lot more painful and complicated than not. So in principle, yes. In practice, I find it too much of a game. That makes sense. Okay. Well, we are definitely over time. And I'm sure people have questions and I think we might have to miss a couple of questions, but people are dropping off the call they have other engagements and things to attend, but Jeff, can I say this was very, very interesting session. Thank you for sharing these two exercises, both using, you know, physical resources, which we value a lot. So yes, thank you for presenting these to us. And thanks to all the attendees for joining. We had quite a good turnout at the end and some great questions. And don't forget to give us your feedback. This is to all the attendees and then enter a price roll to actually win one of Jeff's card decks. How do they do that? Oh, well, I actually put a link in the chat group before I saw people were dropping off as we've been a little bit over time. So yes, there's a link. But if you don't see it, just get in touch with me. That's absolutely fine. Or meet up or then bright. Yeah, but thank you again, Jeff. And yes, I'll be trying these out this week, as I said earlier, and I will be sharing my findings soon. Brilliant. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Thanks very much. Bye.