 Thanks so much. Thanks for staying on. My portion of the program is probably going to be the least directly related to your responsibilities, but I think Martha invited me to talk because I imagine that in your role, in your library, you may be asked to supply information. Where can I find X? And so what I'm trying to do this afternoon is just give you a brief overview of three resources and then answer questions about what's out there, not only what you can use, but what you might recommend to your own library to get involved in. I know a number of you in this room, but not all of you, so I just want to make sure that you know my organization, The Coalition for Networked Information or CNI. We're a joint program of the Association of Research Vibraries and EDUCAUSE, the Higher Ed Information Technology Professional Organization, and we're located on a different floor of the same building with ARL in Washington, D.C. So I'm going to talk about these three initiatives, FlexSpace, the Learning Space Rating System, and the Learning Space Toolkit. How many of you are aware of all three of these? Okay, a few. FlexSpace started to be developed possibly three years ago, maybe two years ago, and the way that it came about was that, you know, the SUNY system is quite a large university system, and their system ranges from the research universities to the community and technical colleges in the state, and one of their senior administrators from the Central Administration was talking to someone on a campus and said, every time we're trying to develop a new technology-enabled classroom or other type of space, it's like we're reinventing the wheel. We don't have any data. We don't know who's been doing what. We don't have any statistics. We don't know what equipment is being used, what furniture, what things are being taken into account. And so they started developing the notion of having a repository of new or newly renovated spaces with a lot of data involved. And it grew, and they started to involve other partners that included the media group called Professional Organizations CCUMC. I forget exactly, but the MC is Media Centers. Merleau, which you may be aware of, a project started out in California that focuses on primarily open educational resources and other kinds of things to facilitate integration of technology and teaching and learning. SCUP, the Society for College and University Planning, and the Educators Learning Initiative. Now I left ArtStore for last. That's one that you may be most familiar with, and that's because they played a different role. They're providing the platform, which is shared shelf, which you may be using in some of your other library initiatives or projects. So that's the way that ArtStore is involved. And for us as librarians, we know that means it results in a very quality database with standard records with fields and tags and all that kind of thing. To use FlexBase, you need to request an account. And I think that's for two reasons. One is they want to track use. And the second is that they do have a separate category for commercial organizations. They want architectural firms and planning consultants and those kinds of people to pay some kind of fee ideally to use the resource. Although both commercial and academic institutions can contribute content to the FlexBase database. So I requested an account. It took about 24 hours, so it wasn't instant. So just in case you're trying to use it to get something ready, be advised that you won't get your password like five minutes later like you do with a number of systems. And I bet that it's because an actual person is vetting who is requesting. So I asked Lisa Stevens from SUNY. Is anyone from SUNY here in this room? She's been the really the kind of point person and my main contact. She's been given some release time to spend a lot of time on this project. She is from the IT side of SUNY Buffalo campus. I should call it the University of Buffalo but I worked in SUNY years ago so I still call it SUNY. And so she sent me some statistics courtesy of Art Store and you can see that there are quite a few institutions represented but a lot of them have only one record. So when I started searching the database what I found was that there were a lot of slides from a lot of Cal State universities and a lot probably from New York State and a real smattering of other institutions. There are records from 14 other countries besides the U.S. represented. Canada has the most records other than the United States. Many sizes of institutions so not only sizes but types. There are community college records and there are research universities and all those in between. And both public and private are represented. So the slides are going to be available through ARL but the best thing would be for you to get an account so that you can look more thoroughly at the records. I just chose one somewhat at random and it isn't important that you read the fields. What I want you to see is that this is the same record. It's just an extension. I couldn't get it all on one slide. So it's a long record with a lot of fields and a lot of data about the size of the room, the type of furniture, the type of technology, the type of lighting. It's really a lot of detail. An institution is not required to fill out all of the fields but this record extended even further than this slide. As I look at it on the slide I'm kind of wondering if I inadvertently didn't copy the second part and I'll correct that Martha when I send that to you. It looks like I have two of the same but my point was to show you how lengthy the records are. Each record that I saw, I don't know if they're required to have a photo but all of the records that I saw had at least one photo. This would give you an example. They have some very nice features. You can choose the photos and save them into a PowerPoint format that you can then use. So I think that's very valuable. Now one of the most important things I'd like to convey to you is that these resources are only as good as what data the institutions put in. So when I did a search of library I came up with zero results. And they have been recruiting people at a lot of meetings but probably not at a lot of library meetings. And I think they're going to become more and more interested as they cast a wider net. They were interested from the outset. So I've been talking with Lisa Stevens and the other project representatives from the beginning about would they accept records from libraries, etc. And they absolutely will. And they'll be very interested but it's only going to be useful if you start contributing so that you can compare and have several examples of some type. Now I did search things like AV or Media Studio or whatever. I used a variety of terms. There you will come up with a number of things, not a single one that I found was in a library however. But they were the types of facilities that some libraries have. Now the other thing that I think libraries can find very useful is I know there are a few people in this room right now that have already put problem-based learning style classrooms in their libraries that are often used in the pedagogy, the flipped classroom. And so at Purdue I visited one there at the University of Washington. I didn't see it yet but in the Odegard Library they put those classrooms in. And perhaps there are others of you in this room that may want to develop those classrooms in your library. You'll find a number of examples in this with all of the data that might help inform your process. So the second resource that I wanted to cover is called the Learning Space Rating System. The EDUCAUSE Learning Initiative or ELI put this together. It's now in its first release and it's being tried out by a number of organizations. It's freely available on the web. It consists of two parts. One, this is just a piece of the table of contents of the main resource that establishes the criteria used to rate space. And then the second component is the score sheet that you use. And so I chose this for example. Section 1 is called Integration with Campus Context. And so it has items such that you would rate your space on alignment with Campus Academic Strategy. And you would rate your space on that. The score sheet and the rubric would give you advice on very specific things that you would use to answer where your room falls or your learning space falls on the spectrum. For example, another one is Compatibility with Campus IT Infrastructure and Plan. The second section 2 is Planning and Design Process. There are, I don't know, let's say five or six sections with lots and lots of detail. So I chose this one, the Alignment with Campus Academic Strategy. So you get one point or you can achieve one point. What are the criteria for credit? Provide evidence and then it gives you potential strategies and approaches and then you use your score sheet to keep track of that. I wanted to show you that while I'm always interested in the pedagogy and the conceptual piece that also does have the more practical elements, this is the segment on the furnishings and layout. And so you can go through this rubric to look through to find different types of spaces and criteria, discussion-focused spaces, presentation spaces, team-based spaces, etc. They also have lecture and all those types of things. So the Learning Space Rating System was developed to work with formal and that's what we refer to as formal learning spaces as all types of classroom spaces that are scheduled for learning activities. But ELI is gauging interest in using it in settings for informal learning spaces like libraries and labs, computer labs. In both the Learning Space Rating System and FlexSpace, I think libraries have a real issue with granularity. We have so many different types of spaces in our buildings that it would really take a lot of effort to make decisions on what are those range of spaces and then the criteria for each where they might fit things that have already been developed in the profile and where new ones would be needed. Another thing that's still to be determined right now, I think most of the campuses piloting it, the ratings are being done by people internal to the organization but they're considering developing some type of, I don't know if they'd be certified experts to come in from outside and do this. And they do not yet have certification or levels of achievement. They initially developed this to be like a LEADS type of certification but they're not at that point yet. And then the last and most briefly I wanted to cover is the Learning Space Toolkit developed by North Carolina State University Libraries under an IMLS grant and they worked closely with Brightspot Strategy, a consulting firm to develop it. And it's a really I think a wonderful resource but the disclaimer is I was on the advisory group and I did work particularly on this needs assessment component but it is there and it provides some guidance on doing a needs assessment or what's out there, what are resources for doing, both needs assessment and then thinking about assessment post occupancy. The Learning Space Toolkit also has a space browser with information that is not as detailed as it is in the FlexSpace system but it is fairly limited because while they've invited many libraries to contribute the information has not been as forthcoming as they had hoped which is true pretty much all of them. So I probably have exceeded my time Martha so I'll end there and do you want to hold questions till later? Thank you. Hello everyone. I'm going to try to make all this work. We're getting better. Yeah. Martha asked me to kind of do a few things and one I'm going to kind of be a little segue between what Joan had to say and Martha. Joan is talking about some initiatives right now about learning spaces in general. Martha asked me to talk a little bit about how to some degree we might have had some evolution and how we assess library spaces specifically. Why do we even value those to measure or want to assess those and to also talk about some practical or applied projects that I've used assessment on and then Martha is going to take us from there and talk more specifically about our new facilities inventory. So I called this slide Library Space Assessment 1.0 thinking back 20, 30 years ago if someone asked me a question how we would value or determine what were the questions at that point that we were using for library space? It's certainly Intrigate Count. The iPad's question I think at the time was your typical hours in the fall semester or something like that, hours open per week. Seat count might have come up and often that came up and not necessarily it was by standard. So you might have had a standard for a certain college library based on the number of students that you had and we certainly had our little share of just satisfaction surveys we might pass out. When I thought about that though it's interesting how these kind of all come in flow or as in flow and we still use the number of these now. The one that I've heard a little bit was hours open per week and we actually considered that with facilities inventory and that Martha can talk about and we did not put it in there at this time. And actually one of the things was for most ARL libraries which library would that be for most libraries that have something that's open 24 hours a day now does that even mean anything at this point? So we did not include that one in there as much as that though it could still be a value or a different nothing that some people wouldn't use it for that. But the other question is that's what we were doing and some degree we're doing that now. Why would we even bother assessing library spaces? And I guess I always approach this when you all have your campus curmudgeon I'm sure as well. And when I get that question certainly not from my president or provost but when we get that question my typical response is will people still value library either for the services and collections that we have or just the spaces that we have. And I say they vote with their feet and that's where we go back to the gate count. Most of us still have an astounding number of people walking into our physical spaces and why is that? There's some value there. I mentioned academic support units and that's actually not even for someone physically located in the library but they might offer satellite services. The number of them want to do that why? Why do they want to offer those services? Other campus units that don't even relate to what you do may want to have some physical space. What I often hear is the library is the central part of the campus. Your open hours we want to co-locate next to other successful services but those are all things that come to bear why we would bother with that. And then is there some way for us to assess an intrinsic value either intrinsic or real value that we might have on campus for those spaces? Certainly then if you say that there's some value is it the same for all folks on campus? And we know that our physical spaces don't have the same importance for our different user groups. So at UofL we conducted a large campus-wide assessment since last year in 2014 and asked people which library you use and all sorts of questions. But at the end we had the typical big box. Tell us something that we don't know or we didn't ask you. What could we do to make it better? And in doing that, Melissa Lanning who works at UofL in this area really starts data mining just to open in and come. That's what you could imagine. It went up to thousands and thousands of people. But we pulled out all the comments that related to physical spaces. And of those, when we went back, of the comments that faculty made 14% related to physical spaces. I was actually surprised it was that much. But when I was at Georgia Tech it would have been zero. They didn't walk into the building but at UofL they still do. For graduate students about 20% of the comments they made were physical spaces and 50% they used to be private graduates. That wasn't something I didn't know but it certainly reinforces the value of those spaces relative to different user groups. We also know it matters based on discipline. Is the Engineering Library going to have the same need for physical spaces and arts and humanities? I can tell you no because they closed the Engineering Library at UofL and the Arts Library is still there. So it does matter by discipline. Location, how far people have to physically walk to get to a space is going to matter. And are there alternative locations? Especially for science people, can I go to the lab for this? Can I just meet up with another faculty member at a coffee shop? It's by campus that type of thing. So what's the value? We also know that there is some value in assessing physical facilities. Martha is going to talk more specifically in a minute about the ARL facilities inventory but ARL has also come out with one. At one point we're considering should we just make these two up? And they really were looking at spaces a little differently. And because ARL was looking at such a range of institutions the one I always go back to is the number of seats in your library and they captured off of 600. Every ARL library furniture is going to be in that cap and I don't know how much value we would have had in having that type of information without getting more specific. But I think Joan also hit on the granularity. I never knew there were so many different types of seats in a library building until we tried to put this survey together. And what counts as a seat? And is the SOFA 3, if it's in a space controlled by a partner, is that counted? Is it in a classroom? Is that because we actually have every one of those types of spaces you're talking about. We have formal classrooms. We have informal classrooms. We have coffee shops. What do we count with that? But I'm not going to get too much into this other than saying Martha is going to talk a little bit about where we're going with that. Why do I think it's important to assess spaces? And I think it's kind of an internal audience and an external audience with this. So at least for the internal audience, I think it's a way that we can do our jobs better. And so as I'm looking at spaces, I know that I'm never going to build another library building in my career where I work. And so I need to say, how can we use the space that we have? How can we use it more intelligently? How can we partner with people? How can we continue to increase the value that people see in that space? But I'm not going to be adding physically more square footage probably in my life to assess. So the top one is just helping us do our job better, maybe helping us do a renovation. Some libraries are still building some spaces. The other two are more external. Certainly we need to be able to tell our story, whether it's public relations. Sometimes it's just giving out benchmarking information to other folks. And then most importantly to a dean, most people have to give us money. I said resources. I'm trying to be nice with money. I don't want your books. I want your money. And working with donors, working with funding agencies, and certainly even internally allocation. I've had probably my greatest success with fundraising over the last few years with campus partners. My provost can't give any more money. She's tapped out on tuition revenue, but it's working with our teaching and learning, working with our student government association, working with other people on campus that can help us move forward successfully. There's been a way for us to do that. So looking at just a little bit more about that internal, some specific examples of how I look at this when we want to do these surveys. Certainly we are looking at our space allocations and that's something that comes out in facilities inventory. Mark mentioned it, but I think UofL knew that when they brought me up to UofL that we're going to have a construction project going on continuously for the rest of my time there. We're continuing to remake each of the spaces in our libraries that we're doing that. And certainly we can actually just talk about other ways that we can improve workflow, how we actually handle those spaces for ourselves. I'm not going to go into the tools here for that. I'm speaking to an audience here that knows the different tools. It's kind of funny though I've given, had this slide at a different presentation a little bit more into the entry level assessment folks that were talking about it. But one warning I gave them on that was, you know, we do have, it's something that I didn't mention on that first slide that's the 1.0 is we do things like observations. And we did it around the tech and we did it at UofL. I will say the feedback we get from that is it can really creep people out with that. And so one thing, we've had a couple of different things that we've done with that. We have a little handout there, you know, you caught me kind of thing that you give and say, I'm working on this as a project. We're working on that type of thing. And at UofL we've also used a number of peer observers. So it's other students that we hire to actually sitting in spaces watching how other people are using it rather than having an adult librarian kind of counting walking to the spaces with that. With the scope, just kind of realizing that you need to determine the amount of effort that you want to go into this. What's the scope of the project? Is it a $1,000 project or is it a $10 million project? How much effort do you have to get into that? How much time do you have available for that and who's the intended audience? Certainly if it's just us and my library senior admin team, we're going to look at that very differently than if I'm coming up with a white paper to talk to the president why I want him to go to a donor to get some more money for us. The next few things are actually just, I'm going to run through these pretty quickly. These are some different types of assessments that I've done or worked on just showing them more some practical side. This one was something we called the transcendent study and it was really something we worked at. Trying to talk about are there certain types of inherent qualities in space that transcend or there's a value that transcends what we might think of that space. The example we were giving with this was inspirational qualities. When I walk into an old library, it's an old reading room with the oak tables and the reading room lamps. People just automatically hush. Why? What is there about that? Is there some value in having or recreating those kind of spaces now? Most of those you obviously see that library's cathedrals in the older buildings and it certainly is because the library was that way. What is it about though? Are there certain kind of things that we can capture from that that would make people want to come into new spaces that we're using? What are just the oak tables? What are just the tall ceilings? Is it the way like what is about that? That's an internal focus and the external focus is there some way when I'm building this kind of space or trying to have built that space is there a way for me to show the value of those kinds of things to the institution? Is there a way that on the campus tour when we're having prospective students come through that building that that would say I want to come here? That's a reason the library might have been other than just a number of books that you have in the building and there's a reason that we can capture that would actually mean something to our campus administrators for that. So this is a survey and I'm not going to really go into that. You can Google it and find the results of the survey out there on the Internet. So we were looking at different kinds of pictures and talking about how you felt about this space and then we asked them how would you use the space? The conference has been unmuted. I'd like to thank Joan and Bob for joining me because it does give important context as to why doing the facilities inventory is important for us and we are really at the sort of the web 1.0 phase. We do collect very basic data on facilities. We got, we had what we thought was a simple survey. We did a pilot, the survey coordinator thought it was relatively simple but we got pushback from the statistics community to make it even more simple. So we ended up having a handful of questions that are proving to be useful because I've already had inquiries from both directors and there was an inquiry at the Associated University Librarian's List that was asking for the ratio of seats and students and I was able to provide some of the data we have so far. Is the AUL that asked that question in this room? She said she was going to try to come but I don't see her, okay. So, and you saw how Bob sort of put this concept of seats to students in context comparing the University of Louisville with the University of Kentucky. So, yes, Eboni. Yeah, thank you for the question. Let me repeat it so it gets captured. If we are using online, if we take into account the online students, the figure I've incorporated in the data file I sent out is the number of students reported in the main ARL statistics which would include the distance at students. Also, I want to remind everybody that we do have satisfaction data on spaces for libraries through the live call survey and a lot of good stories actually have come through the use of these data. And these data have an incredible trend documented about the increasing importance of space for undergraduates and the declining importance of space to faculty. So, as you talk to different constituencies on campus, they have a very powerful story to bring to the table. Now, we have been challenged by our new executive director, Elliot Short, to come up with new measures. And, you know, he has been pushing the envelope even more from description to prediction, from inputs to outputs, from quantity to quality. At the presentation he did at the Northumbria Conference, he was bringing the ideas he heard from his listening tour about a cost avoidance index, a collaboration index, an enterprise speed index, and more outcomes measures which is where we are moving. But I think, you know, having a new leadership wants to set the tone that we do need all these things even more. And he has, in another presentation he did at the research libraries in the UK. He had an interesting example he brought there. It was a presentation about the coherence at scale thinking that's happening through Clear and Elliot is participating in that. He was putting in context a sort of a challenge. For example, he says in this slide, if we had a binational system to preserve the print legacy in five regional repositories, a limited number of repositories, for every 100 million fewer volumes to maintain, we could regain about 1.3 million square feet. That's about 1.8 billion of space to reallocate. So this is trying to make the link between the spaces occupied by the print collection right now and how they can be repurposed for learning and research. So remembering I think we have a reflection on these observations and what my colleagues brought earlier is thinking about who's our audience when we take these facilities data. Why is it that we are asking data on facilities? What is the shift? What I have observed is a new library director comes to an area library. It was interesting to hear Bob Fox saying in my lifetime I'm not going to build a new building. And then I've heard other directors say I may not build a new building, but I need to start raising funds for a new building because it's just desperate, the building. And that was Colleen Cook at McGill University and they don't have any remote storage. They don't have any compact, dense shelving storage. So thinking why, why are you making a case for space is very important. We've had actually in the recent history of a rail library some very interesting stories. One from the University of Chicago where they were building. They were raising money and funds for the new building. The Rankinstein, did I pronounce it correctly? Library that Judith Nadler was able to actually see into fruition before she retired. Nancy at NCSU, the North Carolina State University. Susan Nadler, Susan Nadler there. She has also seen another facility like that being built. And these facilities, I mean these people started thinking about those buildings, you know, 40 years ago. And another case that has been close to me, Bill Potter who was the previous chair of the Statistics and Assessment Committee of the University of Georgia. He was raising, he was there for a couple of decades. And he was raising funds to build a new special collection building. So it was sort of a lifetime endeavor. So thinking why, you know, are you going to see a new building in your lifetime? Or are you going to be needing to do renovation? And then how do you go about funding them? What you are going to do, when you are going to do it and how you are going to do it. So when we did the Facilities Inventory, the idea actually sort of has its roots on Bill Potter's leadership as chair of the Statistics and Assessment Committee, sort of a legacy he left as his term was coming to fruition. He basically said we need to start getting some of these basic data because they are really useful when you start thinking about these environments. And you don't have to be building a new building to find them useful. So the one thing he did, and I don't think we have done it very well so far, is to connect with the SCAP community. This is a Society of College and University Planner. And he always, you know, has encouraged us to do that. But it has been very clear as we pushed the Facilities Inventory out there that we have to tell people, you know, all of you and you, other people that may work with you to think like an architect or for that matter to actually go and find the people on campus who can fill in this survey from an architectural builder's perspective. So when we send the questions out in terms of the square footage of study space, for example, we were getting back questions about how do I define that? Do I, you know, do I define it this way? That way? And we kept telling people go and talk to the Facilities Planners people because you need to come up with a shared definition of that. How many of you have talked to your Facilities Planner? A lot of you, not everybody. So those who haven't talked to your Facilities Planners, how do you go about filling in the survey? Do you feel you are, or you haven't, maybe you haven't built in the survey yet, right? Not everybody has on behalf of the Aira Library. Anybody who has tried to provide answers to the Facilities Inventory on their own, wouldn't admit a question. Yes, a depository library. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let me repeat the question so we capture it. Is, to summarize, we don't have an agreed upon standard. How many print copies we need to maintain on a national basis or even binational basis if you consider U.S. and Canada for preservation purposes. I have heard from people who have been involved in efforts like the DPN, the Digital Preservation Network, that that number can vary from 7 to 15. They would list that in some of the talks. You know, risk management, I come, as many of you know, I'm originally was born in Greece and a lot of the civilized record is being lost through the centuries. Yeah, I mean, you know, some risk, there's always some risk there. Is there a full proof approach? I don't think there is completely a full proof approach, but I think thinking and having a reasonable answer to it is what we are trying to develop. In terms of our facilities inventory though, so we have a number of questions where the facilities planners are important to engage. We do want to collect relevant data. That's why we shrunk the survey to only the five data elements we have, but we also have a lot of contextual information in the survey, in the form of comments. We ask you to tell us a little bit more about the renovations you are having so we can capture that if it's a new building, to tell us a little bit more about the new building. I'm not quite sure how we're going to use the qualitative information yet and we are capturing images too, about three images from each library and that's another data element that I don't have certainty how we are going to analyze. Actually, I'm hoping to spend a little bit of time with Joan and Bob after this meeting to look at some of these images and if you have ideas, let me know. You all have access to the data as they are submitted. If you go into the aerial statistics environment and you go to the data repository, you can download the numeric file, the CSV, and you can also download the comments in the form of the footnote. If you click on the icon that tells you to download the footnote, what you cannot download yet is the images. We're working on a way to do that. We had to walk through a number of issues in terms of net assignable square footage. This is a technical term defined by SCAP and others and there is a manual that the National Center for Educational Statistics has out that defines it as the definition that you see here. The sum of all areas and all floors of a building assigned to or available for assignment to an occupant or use excluding non-assignable spaces defined as building service circulation, mechanical, and structural areas. And circulation has nothing to do about circulation of books. Circulation is about circulation areas in an architectural sense. The sum of all areas on all floors of a building required for physical access to some subdivision of space such as fire towers, elevators, lobbies, tunnels, bridges, etc. So circulation areas as defined above are excluded from net assignable square footage and that's what it makes it net. Otherwise it's gross. If you have a big atrium, for example, and things like that. Now we received a question about calculating the net assignable square footage for shelving. Now we do ask for the square footage for shelving in terms of the total floor space where shelving is located. We do not ask for shelf measurement because a number of people say, oh, I have the linear feet. That's not what we're asking. We don't want the linear feet of shelving. We want the square footage that the shelves in the library building occupy. Then I wanted to show you a little bit the way the images are uploaded. Here we want you to enter the URL or upload an image file. And the URL box is for image URLs, not for website URLs. So if you have a collection of images in a website, it will not work. We want the URL that ends with a .GIS for a GIF or .JPEG for a JPEG image, not just an HTML page where you have multiple images. Otherwise it won't work. And we do have a place where you can put URLs, where you have additional information, additional images, and that's in the footnote box. Okay. So we do want you to contact the university and college planning. And for those of you that have done so, I'd like to hear what some of your stories are, how they approached you, how your conversation with them went. And in some cases, I know we had to replace the contact in the system because the university planner is actually filling in the data in the form. And we wanted to keep it simple. We received questions like, what if I have chairs around the stack? Does that become square footage for study space? Or is it all square footage for shelving? We wanted to keep it simple. The answer is whatever is most convenient for you, really, because that's square footage around the shelving. If you already know how much of that is, you can include it in the study space count. But if you don't, thanks to spend an enormous amount of time trying to separate that surrounding area, take that whole block and report it as square footage for shelving. Questions we received, we have learning spaces and the writing center. Does that count as part of the library square footage? Again, if the library director is responsible for that space, it would count. If it's not, if the library occupies only two floors in a building and you are only responsible for those two floors, all the other floors are other functions of the university, you don't need to count that as library space. Yeah, we had to emphasize that linear feed is not to be captured here. So if you download the data file, do pay attention to the comments because sometimes people, when they don't follow the instructions, they try to put footnotes so it's possible that some of these numbers, instead of square footage, are linear numbers. We're going to be looking at them. And we are thinking of moving the gate count question into the annual ARL statistics because we did realize that this has created a confusion. The ARL Facilities Inventory is a data collection that happens once every three years. So we ask you for expenditures to report more or less expenditures over a three-year period. And then we suddenly come with a gate count question that's on an annual count, which would be more appropriate for the ARL statistics. So we have talked about making some adjustments to that element. Thank you. Let me show you some spaces we collected from the pilot. And you will recognize anyone from Ohio State here? Ohio State. Now, during the pilot, we collected both buildings and internal spaces, but we came back and clarified the instructions saying we want to capture the use of internal spaces. And I mean, we can find pictures of the outside of the buildings. Our purpose is not to capture those through the facilities inventory. These were captured during the pilot phase. This is a space that's used as a lecture hall, again, from the pilot. Again, during the pilot, we had some external buildings. Anybody recognizes these buildings? Do you want to know? No, it's an engineering library. I thought it was Michigan State, but maybe no. I'll go back and I have the file name. Another learning commons here. This is from the University of Massachusetts. They are learning commons, or learning commons, special collections, and I think that's it. Tell us a little bit, and I'm going to hang up this call because I don't think the conversation will be recorded anymore. Tell us a little bit about your experience talking.