 All right, so Sophie and I are talking about something that I think a lot of us who are course creators deal with. When you first launch a course, and Sophie and I have both had this experience. When you first launch a course, you tend to get the most number of sign ups from your audience. And then, you know, when you know something like that, Sophie, I think you do as well I teach the course live, while I'm also recording it. And then after I finished teaching the course live and if the course is complete and it's been recorded, then it goes on my website and I sell it as an evergreen product evergreen means that people can buy it evergreen anytime, have to show up to a session or something like that so they can buy the recordings at any time. And, you know, Sophie and I have both noticed, hey, when it's evergreen, we only get sales every now and then, you know, dribs and drabs. And even when we try to launch relaunch the evergreen course, like Sophie you have tried doing live webinar to relaunch the evergreen course or a discount or maybe other things that it's still not as many sales as as the original launch. So I want to assure you from 12 years of launching more than 30 different courses and I and I'm probably being conservative because even even right now on my website there are 21 courses. So taught in the last three or four years over 12 years I've launched what you know well above 30 courses and I've noticed that it is always always the case has been always the case. And you and I are in different industries. So you can take that as another data point that even in my industry a very different one than yours. It's also the case that when I launched a topic for the first time I get a lot more sales. Then when I launch it the second time, and the third time, and the fourth time, etc. The here's here's why this I think this is why it happens, because most of the people who would buy that topic have already bought. And so, unless you dramatically grow your audience from the first launch the second launch if your audience has doubled or something like that, then maybe the second launch will get as many or more sales than the first launch. So how do we in question as well then how do we dramatically grow our audience between the first and second launch. There are, there are two ways of doing it. Okay, one way is to delay the second launch for several years. You launched in, you know, first year you launched, of course, a topic, and then you don't launch it again for three or four years. And by the three or four years by that time by the time it rolls around when you launch that topic again, your audience will have grown if you are doing, you know, the kind of marketing that we talk about your audience will have grown. But secondly, your audience, even those who bought in the past or who saw it three or four years ago. It feels fresh to them again. So now they're more likely to to buy it they didn't buy the first time they might buy it now or some of them might even buy it again. Because they want to engage with you live again in that topic. So that's the first strategy, which is what I've been doing now, especially starting from now going into the future. I now have a four year cycle. Because now I basically have 21 topics. And I now have a have a cycle where I teach six courses a year this is actually starting next year. We're recording this at the end of one year and we're going. So starting next year and now where I have a four, I have a I have a six course cycle each year six launches each year. So I have 21 topics six, it's approximately every four years I reteach something. Plus each year I get to experiment with one or two other new topics just to see if it's, if it might work. So that's one, like I said there's two strategies here for you. There's actually three I want to give you three. One is to you need to wait longer before you launch that topic again, and you just need to launch other topics in between new topics, until just like me you know you eventually get to 20 topics or more. Okay, then you could like God, very comfortably have every four year cycle. Right. And in fact right now I want to show you something. Right now I am launching a course that the last time I taught it was three. Well actually know this course. There's an exception I actually taught it last year as an evergreen relaunch which we'll talk about. But I said in my post that I'm not going to teach it again. I'm going to share my screen for another four years and I, and I'm serious about that I, I really do mean that I'm sorry I'm going to share my screen in just a moment with you I'm just finding the post to the show to show you here. And so let me go ahead and share my screen. So, the next time I'm doing this live besides what's listed below is four years from now. You know if you really want to engage me live in this process can serve joining us for this round. Anyway, some people use that as a marketing tactic. Because they'll say that but then they'll decide I'm just going to teach it again next year. I really mean that because I have a schedule. I have so many topics I want to reteach. I can't how do I fit it in. If I'm only doing six launches a year. So it for me it's it's a natural constraint that what I can't teach this again for four more years because I have so many others. So, so that's one strategy, right, you got to wait longer. The second strategy is that you need to relaunch courses with enough JV partners, joint venture partners because like I said, there's only two reasons there's only two ways of relaunch can can have as many sales. One way is you wait a long time, and the second and keep doing your marketing and grow your audience the second way is to borrow other people's audiences. You've already, your audience has already seen it. And unless you wait four years, they're not going to sign up again or very few of them will because they've already seen it. They've already made that decision that this topic is not for me. They've already told you, you see what I mean, let's say you got 70 sales. Well, you have 1000 people in your audience the what happened to the other 930 people who didn't say yes to the course. They bought 930 people didn't bought some of them didn't see it, or someone didn't see it enough time. But, but a lot of those did see it and made the decision. No, this is not right for me or not right for me at this time, maybe four years later, it will be right for them. Okay, so, so, so that's a second strategy is to borrow audiences by having a lot of JV partners JV stands for joint venture. One of the things is that you have friends, and you have colleagues who have a right enough audience that you are going to announce the course to their audience. Of course, why would they let you do that. Well, because they are, they are friend or colleague and maybe you are trade, you are trading promotions like hey, you promote my course I promote your course that's very common trade, or they said, you know, I don't want to just sell something to my audience. I'll interview you though Sophie I'll interview you about this topic, and then you can mention the course at the end so that's a lighter kind of collaboration. So, but, but usually a relaunch where you're done, you're done with launching to your audience now you want to relaunch and get the same number of sales or higher. You need several you need three or four JV partners, who have, you know, similar audience sizes, three or four, with a similar audience sizes you to match the same number of sales with one audience with with your audience. That makes sense so you need at least three or four similar sized audiences to match the same number of sales as your audience. So that's the second strategy. Okay. And, and Sophie you can jump in anytime you want to ask anything about this. It's very interesting because I haven't thought I've done. Since I published a book last summer, I last year in the summer I got tons of people getting me to do live on Instagram with them about the book and I've never thought of using the same thing to, I really like the idea of doing it and the soft approach to say hey, just like I've done since I've worked with you that I did my first webinar. I got 300 people signed up for the webinar. And I think about 40% of people turn up it was free. And, and at the end of the webinar I for the first time in my life talked about the fact that I was running discourse with I did feeling yucky because I felt like I told people ahead of time, I'm going to tell you about my course. So I had maybe seven or eight sign up to the course after that webinar but the thing is it was an experience I really enjoyed. I felt, I had to learn to do a large webinar on Zoom, which I've never done that I had a bit of a flappy panic because all of that happened in the course of 72 hours, the 300 sign ups and I was like, you know, I announced it on Thursday and then by Friday or Saturday I had 300 people signed up. So it was all a very interesting experience. And yes, the main thing was this approach of like using real humanity with people and saying, hey, you know, I have got this do you like it but I said in the webinar you have absolutely no obligation to buy this course, you know, if you want to learn more there's more free article on my website if you want to learn more there's this and then there's this course. And that's the first time in my life I did that result having this kind of clenching inside that I was thinking oh now I'm going through the yucky. I'm really liking the idea of using that connecting with people and saying, hey, you know, because it doesn't feel like I'm doing it for the marketing it would be a collaboration. That's right. So I really like the idea of that and I've not thought about using it in that way. Do you see what I mean when yeah, yes to do lives about the book I was just excited to talk about it. Yeah, same thing with now that especially now that you have taught that webinar, you have that experience now you could. Maybe there are some friends and colleagues who would be willing to have you teach the same webinar to their audience. Yeah, I mean on the back of the first webinar I got invited to give a presentation to very large group of midwives, which was completely outside of the audience and normally interact on a day to day basis. So yeah, sometimes I think it's kind of hard to grasp how much impact, you know, how much impact one, because you might just not realize that there's lots of people who now suddenly know who you are. Yes, because you got introduced to them by somebody they trust. Right. It's very, that's why I say borrow audiences. It is somebody audience and you're, you're temporarily borrowing it. Because you're like you said you're you are transferring the trust from from them trusting their audience or them trusting that thought leader to that trust is borrowed to you. One thing I want to say about the webinar thing is, I encourage you to try doing a free to attend page recording webinar. You saw me recently do this, you know, with with my audience. I think Sophie you said early when you did the free webinar, people saw that they could get the recording later, even if they didn't show up is that right. So yeah, that's a typical free webinar is, hey, here's a free webinar and side please sign up for it and even if you can't show up even if you don't pay whatever you still get the recording and whatever notes or whatever if there's anything like that. For me, I've done that many times in the past of course I have you know in the beginning of my business I did that a lot because that's what I thought I was supposed and then I got like, hmm, how come free webinar typical attendance rate is 15 to 35% typical attendance rate in my industry. I've talked to a lot of people. So if you say you got 40% attendance which is really high. Okay, for a free webinar that people can just get the recording. This is why I said how do I get people to sign up with more thoughtfulness and actually show up rather than just collect recordings as many people myself have included done. That we never watch. Yeah, because there's no, there's like you think I'll do that tomorrow and then life gets busy. There's always something interesting tomorrow. I've signed up to so many things like that. That looks exciting. I'm going to sign up because there's no pressure of anything. People, people often in fact ask me, when does the recording expire. I'm like, I didn't even think about expiring the recording I mean it's on it's on YouTube why would it expire or take it down like why do I, it's even more administrative work for me to think about when I'm going to expire recording so I don't know. Anyway, the strategy I'm saying free to attend paid recording so, hey, you can sign up and attend for free. It's like it says free to attend you can attend for free. Or if you can't attend you can buy it later for $30 or whatever nominal amount, because I really believe in this webinar it's it's going to be worth $30 if you just want to buy the recording afterwards with along with the notes. And also after I, I the recording was done. And when I sell the webinar I also give a few bonus videos that I've already recorded somewhere else. There's a lot of segments that are part of the same top around the same topic so it becomes a real product. It's on my website now right. So I, and when you do a free to attend paid webinar. Anyway, I will link to another video where I talked about that. But I was going to say the third strategy the first strategy as I said is launch three to four years plus later, so that you have time to build your audience and give them more spaciousness before you talk about that topic. The second strategy was get at least three to four JB partners with hopefully with a similar sized audience or bigger. And the third strategy is to launch it again you could do it before three to four years you can launch it within six months or even within a year, except this time you have to make it different enough than just buy the recording. And as a different enough, I mean, you have to add some more value to that so it's like, you could say, Hey, I'm launching this topic. You don't have to say again. It's like I'm excited to launch this program about the topic that you had launched six months ago. It will have a group discussion or it will have a group coaching or it'll have some one on one time with me, or it'll include this other major topic that I didn't get to talk about before. It has to be different enough where it almost feels like a different product. And there, therefore your audience sees it as a different product and as its own fresh lunch rather than Oh she just, this is something I saw six months ago. I've already made my decision. See what I mean. So, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for asking. All right, one here's one thing here from one message here from Tara thank you about the question about well why would we need three to four JB partners with a similar size audience to match the same number of sales as we have the reasons because our audience has, we built trust with our audience over a long time and that trust means a lot, which is why it has a certain number of sales whereas with a JB partner with someone introducing us to their audience. It's like 25% of the power of the trust, even if they have the same size audience, not, it won't have the same amount of sales because they're not in our audience yet. Our people literally yet it's someone else's people, and maybe a quarter of them, if we're lucky, will say well, I don't know who you are but I trust you enough that so and so I recommend I'm going to buy your thing. You see what I mean so it even saying 25% is might be high. But this is why I say gosh you can get three or four or even more JB partners with a similar size audiences you then then you can expect the same amount of sales as you did when you launched to your to your own group.