 Hi, everyone. This is Kendra Albert, the director of the Initiative for Representative of First Amendment, and we'll get started in just a second. We'll just wait for folks to sort of filter in virtually. But thank you so much to everyone for joining us today. We're super, super excited, excited for this conversation, excited for our incredible, incredible panelists. So we'll get started in another minute. Well, by my clock it is 1202, which means I think it is start time so this again this Kendra Albert executive director or director of the Initiative for Representative First Amendment. Really excited to be hoping hosting this conversation on sort of harassment of women journalists and sort of its effects on the sort of journalism on journalists and sort of our online media ecosystem more broadly. This is a topic that I think is close to many of our hearts, because both because you can see the effects on an everyday basis on our colleagues and friends who are journalists but also that they sort of it informs the broader media ecosystem and the world in which we live, because the reality is that independent of what they're reporting on journalists are on the front lines bringing important issues to light, but the risks of that reporting don't lie equally with everyone. White women journalists face much more significant harassment than their white male counterparts, but women of color face harassments based on based on their gender race and ethnicity or both at the same time. These dynamics have impacts on journalists and journalism, and they create a strong chilling effect on coverage resulting in self censorship or censorship right. And you know that's important because not just because of its effects on individuals but because it changes the stories that get out the stories that are told and the approach that folks have to the work that they do. So we're really honored to have this like rock star panel, which I will shut up shortly so that we can get to them. Join us. So we have Elisa leaves minos of the International Women's Media Foundation, DJ Mohammed from Pan America, Partica Katya Gen Z free expression activist who's on the board of the Student Press Law Center and Taylor Lorenzo the Washington Post and I'm not going to read their bios on the website for the for the event but I'm just so thrilled to kind of get to get to be in conversation with them about this today even if the circumstances that call us together are crappy, at least the company is great. I'd love to just open kind of I set the scene a little bit about kind of how we think about the impacts of harassment of women journalists but I'd love to start with Taylor because I know Taylor you've done both a lot of reporting on this and also sort of written and talked about your own experiences to just start like start us off by laying out the landscape of what you found about how gender based harassment affects journalists and the topics they cover. And, you know, we'll take it from there with folks hopping, hopping in as they as they choose to. Yeah, definitely. This is Taylor, and I have written a lot about this topic as you mentioned. I mean I think the biggest effect that this type of harassment and terror campaigns that people run against women is that it has a really big impact. This is a free speech issue, as I've written so many times but it's also a press freedom issue, you know, women's voices are being intentionally silenced from the media they're not able to tell the stories that they want to tell or they're not able to cover events or cover things the same way. It's hard for them to get jobs I mean women are constantly driven out of the industry, because of these harassment campaigns they get framed as controversial, and news organizations, you know will push them away. I recently wrote a story, speaking to dozens of journalists around the world and the one common theme throughout the story was that none of these women received report. None of these women received support from their very own news organizations when they were going through this so. Yeah, it really cuts down their ability to, to tell report it report out stories. I want to add to that that thank you. This is Gigi, thank you Taylor and for everything that you said. It's a problem for free speech for free press, and it's also a problem for diversity and inclusion in newsrooms and in the industry, because as both Kendra and Taylor mentioned earlier, not everyone is targeted for the same reasons or the same way. Women are targeted more than men in the industry but also depending on your identity or intersectional identities or that you're perceived identities, you're also facing a higher level of attacks when it comes to online abuse. And I think it's very important to say it for what it is that it's not necessarily only for the topics that you're covering but also for who you are as a person, and I just wanted to reiterate that. I apologize if you're speaking, I think you're muted. I knew I would do that apologies. This is Elisa. Thank you, Gigi and Taylor I think that highlighting the identity focus of these attacks is really critical. Another thing that Taylor touched on that I think is so important and something that we're focusing on is the need for a change in culture within newsrooms to accept the responsibility for what is happening to their when it comes to online attacks. I think that we did see a big culture change with regard to physical attacks in the last two decades. But we need to see that change when it comes to online attacks and online violence and really for news organizations regardless of their size or resources that absolute imperative to take on the duty of care when their journalists are being attacked. I also would love to this is particular would love to add on to a Taylor said about the future of free speech and First Amendment issues. A lot of the times we think about what a newsroom should look like, we don't always think about like the future of journalism and student journalists are that future. I am a student journalist, also a member of Gen Z. And a lot of the times there's this misconception that student journalists are kind of in a bubble we're not able to encounter harassment online or offline. But that's definitely not the case. And we cover a lot of the same beats that professional journalists or career journalists do as well. So when you think about what a newsroom should look like in the future we should think about stronger protections for student journalists as well, especially with the influx of legislation across the country that is now focused on education and controlling topics of discussion in classrooms there's just so much vital discourse that's being threatened. And I think that online harassment is one of those threats to the future of journalism. It really starts at the bottom where students are. Thank you so much everyone. So I want to avoid the kind of like trauma porn phenomenon where folks are required to like regurgitate the like all of the horrible things that have happened. But I did want to sort of, I know that some of our sort of viewers are some of the attendees maybe sort of less familiar with kind of what, what the reality of facing down one of these like, you know, Taylor as you said like right like terror campaigns looks like. And so I'm wondering if anyone would feel comfortable speaking a little bit to kind of what, what some of some of the dynamics that do occur when folks are facing, facing these down, especially with regards to kind of like, I know folks have written about kind of like, sort of the reality that answering email, not looking at your email or not reading the comment section on your articles is like not something you can just do if you're a working journalist. So if anyone feels comfortable speaking to that I would, I would be grateful just so that folks who don't quite understand it can get a sense. I can share one thing that I feel like is a big misconception about these types of campaigns. I think a lot of people like, you know, they say, oh my God, you know you get death threats and death threats that's so horrible. In my opinion, I, I mean, it's horrible and it's not okay. But that's nothing like it's, I mean, we get death threats every single day, all day, and rape threats and graphic violence. But what's been really hard is what's been happened to my family. My parents have been swatted many times. My sister, who is married to a non white woman. They tried to say that she's an illegal immigrant they called the police on her and called CPS, you know, to try and get their child take away, accuse her of grooming. And just a lot of stuff that they've done to my, my sibling family members trying to get them fired from their jobs causing trouble at work down ranking my, you know, family members business with bad reviews affecting their business. So it's, it's kind of this like halo effect where I feel like anybody associated with me gets targeted even my best friend even the girl that took my headshot asked me to remove her name from. You know I was crediting her on my photo and she got doxxed herself and tons of threatening messages so you know it's not just us when this stuff happens it's everyone around us and it's also our news organizations like every single day I feel like I have to explain something you know somebody, some persons reached out and tried to frame something I've done as bad or whatever and it's just this like extra scrutiny and editors are like why, you know, thankfully my editors at the post understand but like, you know I've been in position where other editors are like why is this girl why is there always some kind of trouble with her you know why, why are people always reaching out sending thousands of messages, you know, and I've, I've lost a lot of professional I've been disinvited from speaking events from going on podcasts and stuff because they don't want to deal with the backlash, or they don't feel like they have enough security for the event because at this point, I've had a lot of people physically kind of make threats so it's not to ramble but I just think you know it's not just like mean messages online, those are disturbing but that's like nothing compared to the way that you know the tactics that these people use to smear you and to smear you in the media to the right wing media like, you know, they will smear your name all over, destroy your Google results. Somebody paid a bot network to message thousands of followers when I got my job at the Washington Post like somebody had a bot message every single follower of the Washington Post and everything single follower of me. Just that I, you know, that I'm like a groomer and all this I can't even remember what it said just nonsense but it affects your reputation. This is. Oh, sorry, go ahead. Please go ahead. This is a Lisa Taylor I just want to say how sorry I am that you have had to endure this kind of onslaught. And we're here to support you and I hope you feel that too. In fact, on journalists, you know, there, there is research done on the impact on journalists, and they exhibit and, and, and report, having symptoms similar to PTSD, as a result of these kinds of attacks and onslaughts and so I think it's really not only to recognize that the threat does often move into the physical space, but that the impact even if it stays in the cyber world is the same. And I think that is really, it needs to be better understood and it needs to be better addressed. Taylor, I'm very sorry for everything that is happening. It's not easy at all to deal with that. And I always hope that you feel supported. I want to touch on two things that you both mentioned and I also bringing an international perspective to that. I am a journalist, I used to be a journalist covering human rights abuses and social issues in Egypt and the Middle East before I moved to the US and then focus on safety and security. And two important points is that the tactics might actually differ from a place to another. Slightly, I mean, there, there is a lot of similarities, they might differ slightly, but they have the same purpose, which is to silence and push people out of the industry. And this, as Taylor mentioned and Lisa also highlighted, it affects the livelihood of people. It affects their professional image. It depends on who you are, what identity you have that types of smearing campaigns. Wow, people get very creative when it comes to that. And the other thing is, it does affect our physical safety but also it affects how we see risks. This is not a light thing for journalists, specifically if you're physically covering conflict zones or protests or something like that. Because if your sense of risk and how to manage risk and how to see risk gets affected by the volume of things you've receiving on a daily basis, this is extremely dangerous. So not only what the effects that it has on our mental health and well-being on our families, on our like physical safety when it comes to moving from the cyber world to the physical world, but also, and I saw that as being a journalist and working with journalists, that the sense of how we perceive risk changes, because we get used to receiving all of these things and shrug it off and say that like, oh, it can be worse. But then how can we do our threat modeling risk assessment in a way that is actual? Adding on to that, I mean, I, oh, this is Pratika. Adding on to that, I just think that our lives are so intertwined, especially if you look at up and coming journalists, young journalists, Gen Z. I mean, it's hard for us to just get offline because so much of our lives are like in between off and online. So when you're trying to break into a field, like we're going to be using platforms like Twitter, we're going to be promoting our work in hopes of kind of catching someone's attention, catching a break. Like personally, I use Twitter way more than my counterparts, just because of student journalism and trying to put my articles out there. It's a way to gain traction. So when you get, like when I get messages on Twitter on articles that I've written are comments that are like hateful, hold swarms of hate. A lot of the times it's just like, okay, like, I, but I still have to keep using it, because I want, I'm trying to like, make, make an impact, get my work out there. It's easier said than done to kind of get offline or shrug it off and there needs to be a better like implementation of support within newsrooms trainings to kind of combat that because being offline is not always an option for a lot of young people. Yeah, this is Alisa, I think that's really important, but I think what's also really important to know is that research also shows that younger journalists are dropping out of journalism at larger percentages than more established because of online violence and what that says to us is that essentially there's an attitude of I didn't sign up for this. I don't want this in my life. And I'm just starting out in this field and so I'm going to redirect myself and my profession and I want to reiterate what you said about the impact of those decisions. The inclusivity and diversity that we see in the news media and already at a low when it comes to inclusivity and diversity, we can't afford to lose anything more any more diversity in newsrooms as a result of online harassment and online attacks. I feel like I can just but this is Kendra. I feel like I can just butt out as a moderator, let y'all keep going but I did want to lift up something from the Q&A, which is, I believe, the Ali who's in her in her own way, who is a journalist and also an expert on online journalism and a journalist says, I wanted to address my support to Taylor and employers should acknowledge this and better empower the voices of journalists like you. So I thought that was worth lifting up. Thank you so much for that. So I want to pick up where Gigi was sort of pointing out both the similarities and differences to sort of the way these kinds of attacks play out in the United States and the way they might play out elsewhere. So I'll maybe start with you and then maybe we can go to Gigi to talk a little bit about sort of how what the IWMF has found acronyms, my weakness, why I run an organization called IFRA, anyway. So IFRA has found about sort of the effects and variants of the stuff internationally. And then maybe we can go to Gigi and Taylor I know you've also written about this after that people should just feel free to hop in. Yeah, thank you. Hi, this is Alisa. I think at the, the sort of modus operandi from an international perspective, in a lot of ways like Gigi said there is a playbook, and people are just actually literally cutting and pasting that playbook across the world. At least the cases that come to light more frequently or that rise to the top internationally are cases where a government entity has actively piled on, encouraged, started, and is supporting actively an online campaign against a woman journalist, a political candidate and an opponent named the person backed by all of the power that comes with being a government entity. You know, we obviously saw this in the case of Maria Ressa and the attacks against her, and many, many other journalists around the world who, you know, catch the ire of their government. I think that you can really also draw the similarities to the right wing news media that sort of acts as a proxy to governmental interests in the United States. So it's similar to that it's grasping that power behind that entity and using it and I also wanted to spell the notion that these are random or mob attacks. I think that oftentimes they're described as, oh, it's the crazy internet or crazy Twitter it's not it's orchestrated and led and directed in a very specific way. And I think it's important for people to understand that this isn't random in any way. I agree with everything. This is Gigi agreed with everything that Lisa said. The problem, like one of the things we worked on recently was to translate and adapt one of the resources we have in America, the online harassment feed manual to Arabic. And in this, in the work that we've done. We, of course, we make sure that it's not a translation only it's an adaptation meaning that we work with local organizations to make sure that the content is relevant and reflecting what's happening there. And one of the things which Lisa mentioned is the state sponsored attacks. I think the difference is that I would talk about between what's happening in the US and in other parts of the world would be the element of the state sponsored attacks, because sometimes like they have way more resources. So the things that we as individuals can do a little bit more limited than what we can do in places that it's not as intense, for example. So this is one of the things the other thing is the gender part of it or the identity part of it is huge everywhere. And it's definitely used everywhere in a way that is pushing a lot of women journalists and non binary individuals out of the field. It's a purpose. Like this is this is as Lisa said this one. It's not random is orchestrated. It is connected, and the different tactics whether from impersonation or to hateful speech or to, for example, smear campaigns and stuff like that. It is similar. The tactics might start like from my experience for example in Egypt and in the Middle East, the tactic itself might actually start for example in the US. And because we know the internet has no boundaries and no borders, it spreads very quickly. The way it's like used is very that it could be different by a government entity, all people who groups who are, they want to put you in trouble with the government. They publish things impersonating you saying that you publish these stories, for example, and then they get you in trouble and the consequences of that in some places can be killing or jail or like other stuff. Thank you both. We have a number of really amazing questions in the chat so I'm just going to hit the couple of things that I want to hit and then go to them because there's like a bunch of, you know, a bunch of really I think fantastic questions about sort of how, especially around how folks can provide support or what forms of support are available. But before we turn to that I want to sort of come back to something you were saying about kind of student journalists and sort of youth journalists more generally. And I think one of the things I was struck by about Taylor you've reported on this and one of the things really in your article that stuck out to me was basically you know student journalists who are reporting on issues related to a campus that they have a university they attend or a high school. It's not like, you know, it's both there, you know that's a place that they're working as a journalist but it's also like all their day to day life in a way that is, you know, maybe similar for some, some other forms of journalism that seems like very it's even harder to get away from. And so I was wondering, Pratika, if you could talk a little bit about kind of like again rate some of the differences or similarities you've seen or some of the sort of unique stresses on student journalists who are trying to cover like issues that you know are affecting like their lives and the lives of the students around them. I mean, I'd love to. So, well, for, so this is Pratika and I just first I want to say I attend Northeastern University in Boston. So I have a lot of familiarity with student journalists in my network in colleges across the country and high school journalists that I've worked with. And also through the student press law center which I'm a board number four so to kind of talk about things that I've seen or the similarities similarities and differences. I want to kind of start out with laying a basic overview of just a difference that student has to face in comparison to career journalists, which is that we don't have legal protections in at least 34 states across the country. And that public universities and public high schools, we don't have first minute protections like press freedom rights. So we can face prior review administrative censorship or self censorship because of our reporting. And in this time, especially with such a tumultuous political climate there's an impending of reproductive rights and a record amount of mass shootings. We're really on the front lines of covering this on our campuses and our communities. The one example I always think of nowadays is the Missouri State University mass shooting that happened a month or two ago, where student journalists were the one breaking the news of it on their campus as it was unfolding. This just shows just the similarity in beats that we're covering compared to career journalists were really taking sensitive issues and putting them in the context of how it affects young people today. We're essentially beat reporters of youth and Gen Z like we're the ones that really know how things affect us. Another issue that I always talk about is the amount of educational orders across the country banning books legislation that aims to restrict discussion of topics in the classroom I mean, who better can report on that than high school students who are being impacted by that. Student journalists are on the front line of what's going on in their campus but we also are so integrated into our campuses I mean it's our day to day life we go to class. We're reporting on the people we see walking on the field or walking to a party. And in with this increase in news deserts and areas with a lack of local news were the ones filling in those gaps. But there's also this chilling effect that we're not really talking about as much because students do face online harassment as Taylor covered in an incredible story. We talked about the the student at Arizona State, who was docs, and that's just one example I mean we're more than capable of facing online harassment and we really need schools and universities to back us up in our reporting. But as a result I mean student journalists that I've talked to and you know at the university level but in the high school level as well. We're shying away from controversial stories. And as a result of the backlash we're receiving I know, sometimes I don't even try to report on things that are political because it's not just politics but it's being attacked for race, gender. And as a young journalist you also get attacked for your age, I mean, I'm only 19 years old, and I get told that a lot. I'm always the youngest person in the room and people make sure that I know that. So, a lot of the times, it's just an extra weight on top of the lack of legal protections that we already don't. Like the legal protections we don't have so. Anybody else want to have this is kind of Gigi go for it. This is Gigi. Everything you said is just very, very true and it hurts to hear that. One of the things like, we've been invited to do some work with some student journalists recently in couple of schools couple of universities. And what you said is resonating a lot, because everyone was saying the same thing. Everyone was saying that we are covering the same issues. We are actually being targeted and I've heard the part about age a lot as well that were being targeted, like with online abuse but also ages use that can stress as something that is like you're only this age. And like to undermine the work that people are doing. And one of the things is that I really would encourage and hope that universities would have the conversation about online abuse more. Like I know that now when I was an undergrad, the conversation about safety in general was not there, not physical, not online, nothing. But I know that now a lot of universities are including physical safety. Specifically, if it depends on the topics you're covering, but I would really, really hope and wish that the conversation about online abuse trainings that they can provide to people to students and resources that they can at least, you know, tell people to go to that place would be something that happens in every class. Hi, this is Elisa. I think the raising of the different beats that are being covered is really interesting because these kinds of attacks and harassment really did use to be much more associated with a specific be you know politics conflict reporting etc. And now it's, you're right it's it's, we are so polarized that everything environmental reporting during COVID medical reporting. So it's across the board now, no beat is off limits, when it comes to the capacity for it to become a hostile environment for the person doing the reporting and I just want to echo what Gigi is saying that, you know, there, there are a significant number of resources out there and I don't know if we're ready to sort of move on to solutions but I hate to have these conversations without really moving beyond the description of what is going on in the impact, and without a way to understand that this is not an inevitability. There is. There are methods and trainings and ways that you can not entirely mitigate so don't get me wrong I think that I don't. There's probably no way that an individual can become completely boxed off to these kinds of attacks. I'm sure Taylor has undertaken numerous trainings and implemented tons of digital hygiene strategies and still is being targeted. So there are significant number of resources from our organizations from nonprofit organizations, we're part of the coalition against online violence, which has an online violence response hub, where the 70 plus organizations that are part of this coalition have gathered together to put their resources in one place so that when a journalist is being attacked, you don't have to scour the internet, not know who's providing you the resources. So it's really organizations are banding together to support journalists who are being attacked there's never going to be enough resources, but there are more resources than one would think. So I encourage anybody listening to at least go on the coalition against online violence website to see the mirrored of individuals and organizations that are supporting this kind of work. Thank you so much Lisa for turning us to solutions because we're about halfway through our time so I think perfect timing to talk a little bit about kind of what support looks like and what the resources look like and so yeah, I have sort of two questions before I think we turn to additional kind of conversations about resources and then and then like the amazing questions in Q&A, and one is just sort of like pretty straightforward we've talked a little bit about sort of newsrooms or university stepping up and I'd love to hear maybe some examples of what that kind of looks like concretely because I do think that you know I think I've heard and I think lots of folks have heard this sort of idea of like oh well just like, you know archive the emails or just don't read it or you know, get off Twitter, or whatever it's not useful advice but so yeah, Gigi I'd love to start with you and sort of hear a little bit about what, what actually is sort of good, what should newsrooms be doing instead of telling people to like it just ignore it. Thank you so much. This is Gigi. There are a lot of things newsrooms can do. What do you guys and what resources they have? The minimum thing that anyone can do is some psycho social support to actually acknowledge the problem, acknowledge that online abuse happens, and it affects people negatively, and that you need to support. The first thing you can do is just acknowledge that, and then check on the individual, make sure that you're checking on the people that you're working with and I just want to highlight not only staff, freelancers. I just always, always forget freelancers. So, whoever you're working with make sure to check on them. The other thing is, if opening this conversation about online abuse makes a huge difference. If people feel that the newsroom consider online abuse as an actual threat and a problem, they will be more likely to talk and seek help if they need it. The other thing that newsrooms can do is to provide an escalation channel for people and reporting mechanism for people, so that, for example, if I am facing online abuse as a journalist, what should I do? Who should I go to? Who should I speak to? What resources are available for me? If like in the middle of an attack, I will not be, I would be too stressed out. Sometimes maybe I would want to cry and just not think about what resources are available for me. What resources can I talk to? So if this conversation is happening over and over and over again about what resources are available for you from your newsroom, what are the support that they can provide you? Who are the people that you can talk to? And when it comes to, for example, to reporting, something that is happening or notifying the newsroom, we always recommend to have multiple channels for people to choose from. At times, you will not feel comfortable going to your direct editor or manager. So it should be, there should be another way for people to feel comfortable, safe and seen and heard when they want to say that something is happening to them. I want to stop, but there are so many other things that people and newsrooms should do, but I want to give a chance to others to add as well. This isn't Lisa. I'll just very briefly speak to that as well. And just want to keep reinforcing the message that no matter the size or the resources available to newsrooms, there are a spectrum of initiatives and policies that can be implemented. So you don't have to be the Washington Post or the New York Times. The IWF has published a policy guide for newsrooms to support journalists experiencing online violence. And some of the newsrooms we've worked with are operating on a very small scale and others have wholesale changed everything that they're doing around security. So it doesn't have to be everything, but it has to be something. And I think that if you want to share these, this policy guide with your newsroom, or even with universities, I think it's really important to understand that even small steps can go a long way. So I just want to add on to that. This is Petika. And I think a lot of the times it could even start with, like, if we're talking about tangible solutions, starting with J schools like journalism schools that do produce a lot of reporters, even though you don't necessarily have to be a journalism school to be a journalist. The ones that come to mind, Mizzou, Northwestern, Columbia, I mean, they should include trainings and integrate into their curriculum topics of dealing with doxing, harassment, and really putting that in there, because I mean, that's one pipeline of producing newsrooms and having the more aware of this is just another solution. And going off the GD's point, newsroom diversity in the grander scheme of things really does help. A lot of the times, as we know, newsrooms are predominantly male and predominantly white, and having more women and women of color in positions of power and just in newsrooms would make it for a better and more inviting environment, and it would make it for a more encouraging environment for youth to want to actually go into journalism. Because the diversity problem is not exactly appealing to one of the most diverse generation to date. And with that, I would want to say, though, that for any young journalists out there who are struggling with a legal problem or dealing with online harassment. The Student Press Law Center has a free legal hotline with an amazing legal team that does help any student that comes with copyright issue or even the smallest of issues to larger ones like online harassment. So yeah. And this is Gigi, one quick addition to what Pratika was talking about now. The diversity in the newsroom is something really, really important for several reasons. One of them is what you were talking about now. Another thing is that when one of the things that newsrooms can do and we always recommend them do it is to have a task force to respond to online abuse, like a group of people because what happens normally to Pratika's point. Normally, as we discussed earlier online abuse targets, civic people are like for specific identities. So what happens is, in a lot of newsrooms. The burden falls on one individual that is normally whether very used to these issues, and then everyone goes to them for support, or like because of who they are because of the topics that they're covering and stuff like that. And the fact that for example, they're, they feel the safest to to talk to. And this is a huge burden to put on one individual. And that's why we always say like, have a task force or a group of people that can rotate and respond to some like to the attacks that are happening. Yeah, I think that like just in line with educating newsrooms and as you mentioned like a team. I think also just having support among colleagues and peers like one thing that has been so helpful is, you know, I'm in a group chat with a lot of other female journalists who have encountered this type of stuff where all tech reporters women tech reporters so we kind of get that. So just having that like peer to peer support is really great. I wish it's something that newsrooms would better facilitate. So I think sometimes when you go through this or if you're at a small newsroom like you don't have anyone necessarily there. And it's helpful to just have people that aren't your boss or like a personal friend that might not understand, you know, to get to talk to. So, there's that as well. Thank you for that everyone I just want to lift up and sort of come back to something Gigi was saying about support for freelancers because I think you know in an environment or actually, you know, there are fewer and fewer jobs in a newsroom. You know, even for folks who are like professional journalists. Yeah, I'd love to hear us just reflect a little bit on what kinds of sort of support or, you know, resources are available like Taylor the thing that you're mentioning about sort of actually like groups that sort of folks you know it's definitely something that is not, you know, exclusive to a user in context, but whether there are other particular things that folks who are freelancers or who are not working in traditional newsroom environments but are facing these kinds of attacks should be like resources that they should be aware of. Yeah, this is Alisa. I think absolutely go to the online violence resource hub from the coalition against online violence because it is all there in one place. So I know that Gigi's organization and the IWMF both work with individual trainers who will have one on one consultations with journalists who ask for them. So journalists should absolutely reach out to our organizations for that kind of individualized support. The IWMF has also published a mental health guide for journalists experiencing online violence. And I think it's really important to take a look at that guide it has specific exercises that one can do just to address that to even just have the capacity to find solutions. One just needs to find themselves in a space where they can do that. So I think that, like I said, there are many, many resources out there. But exactly one has to be in a place where they can even find them or best utilize them but we do have individuals who are there for you and who can support you if you are confronting a massive attack. So this is Kendra. Thank you so much. Thank you for so much for that. So I want to sort of go to some of the questions from the Q&A and we'll come back at the end to sort of like, I think we've talked a little bit about resources that individual suggestions that folks might have. So there's a couple, I mean, there's a lot of amazing questions. So I'm actually going to do my best to moderators privilege and combine them. So there's a couple of questions about kind of how folks who are not in journalism can sort of act in solidarity or act as allies. And I think this is a, these are great, great questions because I think that there are many folks who are maybe tuning into this, who, you know, are not working in newsrooms or working as journalists but who care about this issue both from an on an individual level but also on a societal level. So yeah, we'd be curious if the folks have thoughts on sort of what actions individual folks can take. This is Gigi and I can start because this is actually one of the trainings we run is how to be an ally for someone that is struggling with online abuse and we run it with an NGO called Drive2V. There are a lot of things people can do and I know that this seems like very common sense and like something easy to say but check on the individual. Online abuse is one of the problems that it's extremely isolating. It has never been considered a serious issue till recently the conversation is still even developing. So checking on the individual is something really, really, really important. Another thing you can do as an ally is if you have a connection like a human connection with someone at a social media platform, and someone needs some content to be removed, please use that. I found that if you have a connection, if you know a human being in a social media platform, it might be more efficient and effective to get something removed from the platform. There are so many other things you can help with you can amplify their work. You can help them like ask them what they need. You can provide them with a menu of options that you can do to support and let them choose because sometimes specifically when it comes to things that we do public facing and like you know like a big statement. Check with the individual. Sometimes I have this you know energy that like you know what I'm going to stand up against this and I'm going to say something. Other times I want to hide under my blanket and cry. So if you check with the individual, they will tell you at what stage they are and what are they feeling. And it's good to respect and do that because sometimes we have good intentions but what we do is not really what the individual wants. Another thing that you can do help people document their abuse so that they can I can turn off my phone take a break. This is one or monitor their comments if they don't want to keep seeing all of the horrible things they're receiving. So these are some tips on things you can do as an ally. This is a Lisa I will just double down on the check with the individual before you do anything piece of this I think it's really important as advocates of women journalists and of online safety. So it is really important to go to the individual directly and ask them if it's okay that you take action on their behalf, or that you amplify support for them because sometimes it is exactly the wrong thing to do instead of the right thing to do. Thank you for those thoughts if anyone has a pretty good go ahead. I was just going to say it so this is pretty good and if like you have the means to as well and maybe like you don't personally know someone who's underlying or experiencing online harass that are abused, but you want to help in some sort of way, a lot of the times. So nonprofits that are producing these resources like that America I WF could use support whether it's donations or additional other types of like amplifying that work so sharing those resources, and really like providing like donations to them to help them to continue to grow and create more resources can always be a good way if you don't personally know someone but want to help in some way. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, so I want to jump to another question that really stuck stuck out to me because I'm curious to hear y'all thoughts. And I'm not going to I'm not going to name the question askers for the video. How does the culture of journalism and its perspective of abuse as a standard occupational hazard play into this problem because I think you know, multiple folks have flagged like oh like, and Taylor I think you were talking about like oh like death threats, you know. I think both understanding your point in that situation to be that it's not actually the death threats are smaller in comparison to the effects on ones like family and loved ones. But also sort of just yeah would be curious as to sort of how how the how the culture of journalism and sort of assumptions around sort of putting up with this or this is just part of the job has like plays into the sort of problem y'all are describing. Can I say something on that. This is Taylor. I, you know, yeah, obviously not to, you know, would never argue that like it's okay that people are forced to do this but I do think that newsrooms normalize it like they don't want to hear about it and I think that, you know, across the industry it's supposed to be this thing where you're the brave stoic journalist and not only should you not be talking about it or complaining about it because then you're centering yourself, which people love to say about women. But you know that you're weak or that you're incapable somehow and it's really toxic I mean I think we actually have I mean when I was at the New York Times like they had robust support for people that were subject to physical violence or reporting for war zones or did other, you know, jobs but when we had multiple people with PTSD from online harassment and vicious stuff. It's seen as like a lesser, you know, form of violence and so yeah it's this idea of like, you know, you know, I can you need to not talk about it because talking about it is drawing attention to yourself. And there's this notion in journalism of like, you should never be the story or try and make yourself the story and the thing, you know that's so insidious about that is it's not your choice you know, if somebody is going on Fox News and mentioning you and your name is in headlines like one thing that a lot of extremists have recognized is that in order to discredit an institution. You need to first discredit the reporters and as you discredit these high profile women and people of color, that then adds Sigma and sort of discredits the organization and these news organizations are working off this backwards model where they don't realize that like the computational harm that we're enduring is an attack on them, you know, it's not just an attack on us and so I just think there needs to be better, you know, speaking of things that these misconceptions about journalism better understanding of that and better understanding the fact that people should be able to talk about this and that's not them making themselves the story or looking for attention or all these misogynistic sort of things that that people levy against women who try and call this stuff out. This is Gigi and one quick addition to what Taylor was talking about that you know it comes with journalism and like this is part of the job. So many institutions think that the more you get attacked the more that you're actually doing good and you're doing the right thing. And I really like, I wish I had this lesson younger, but this does not come with the job. This should not be accepted. This is not something that we should just you know, take because this is us being thick skin journalism this is not it's strong and it's always this no one should ever accept that. This is why institutions, social media platforms, universities, everyone should work together to find solutions to mitigate the damage. This is something it's impossible to prevent it. I personally believe that it's impossible to prevent that that means that you have no existence in anything online. And I'm not sure if I know any person in my life with no existence online. So, even if it's impossible to completely prevent something happening, we can still do stuff to make it better to make the culture healthier, and to actually talk and have conversations that if I am reporting on something. And to make a joint that is, that does not mean that it's fine and okay for me to receive death threats, rape threats, or any types of like hateful messages and things I'm receiving on my accounts. This is different. I'm doing my job. It doesn't mean that this means that my mental health is not worth taking care of. Yes, this is Alisa. I totally agree and just to bring in a bit of an international perspective or a perspective from places where attacks physical attacks against journalists are really high like Mexico or India or Pakistan where this culture of violence against journalists does contribute to the minimizing of online violence because I often hear women journalists who are experiencing online violence say, Well, but I haven't been killed. I haven't been put in prison. Well, I haven't been beaten up. And so there's even a self minimizing by women journalists in countries where violence is so extreme physical violence is so extreme and I think that's really why we are so insistent on emphasizing that these two things go together. You can't protect somebody physically and not protect them digitally. This is critica and I just wanted to add that coming from like a little bit of a youth perspective I mentioned earlier. A lot of the times for like young people, the, like being online is the only way to get opportunities so it's really like ingrained in the culture. I would say of young people starting out in journalism, especially because it's like difficult to get your foot in the door in a lot of places. A lot of legacy news outlets are laying off people in large numbers and it's just harder and harder to get into the industry. There was a really good team Bogue article a while ago about how young women of color gain a lot of opportunities through Twitter. And I just want to say like it's really part of the culture at this point for for Gen Z journalists up and coming journalists to really like be chronically online almost. So it's hard to get rid of that and what that comes as you do the same online abuse because it's inevitable at this point. This is Alisa Gigi and I'm sure you were as terrified to hear that as I was because one of the first things that a digital security expert will tell you is to separate your personal account from your work account. So I think it's really important even at the high school level to start there and really keep in mind for student journalists, the need to separate the two. Part of the damage does come from the inability to leave that work attack behind and be on social media as an individual, as opposed to as a journalist and so it's, it just terrifies me to hear you say that from a very early age of these two or co mingling, and it's going to become increasingly difficult to unwind them, even in college or in your first, you know, professional for lack of a better word, journalism job so I hope that that becomes part of more ingrained practice for younger journalists. I'm Alisa Gigi and I just want to re-emphasize everything that Alisa just said. The younger generation is definitely more savvy with tech and all of these things amazing I'm always always impressed and learning a lot. The only thing I would say is, as Alisa said, separating the personal and professional. Whether using the accounts for different purposes, you said particularly using Twitter a lot for opportunities. Then, for example, if I'm, if I would be talking about Twitter for you would be like professional thing more than personal. If I would be talking to a journalist I would say, okay, this is great but this means that let's keep Twitter for work stuff. And for example, not post picture with my parents or my sister or my dog or something like that. And keep it to an account that is private, that is secure and safe so that people don't have access to the information. Thank you everybody and there are a bunch of really amazing questions and I'm sorry we don't have time to get to more of them but thank you everyone for coming and participating. I just want to close I think one of the things we've shared a bunch of like specific resources, but already. I just want to take away from my closing questions slightly and just ask for either like a resource or take away from each of our panelists that you would want someone, you know, to sort of take away from this conversation. And yeah just want to extend my real gratitude to all of y'all for taking the time to talk with us about this. So maybe we'll start with tailors if it's okay to start with you and then you can focus and jump in from there. Did you say we're doing takeaways? So I mean I guess my biggest takeaway on all of this and like something I just really hope that people can go out into the world is just to, you know, pressure news organizations. I think the biggest thing that I found in my reporting especially this, you know, reporting that I did recently globally of women journalists is that they didn't want to stop reporting like despite everything they had been through they really wanted to kind of continue on with their jobs but their news organizations were the ones that were pulling them off beats or reassigning them or in some cases, you know, letting them go. And so, I think it's just, it's so important that we that we pressure these news organizations to recognize this problem, build in systems of support and not punish female journalists for being targeted. I think that's, you know, the most important thing. This is pretty good. And I guess my takeaway and a resource would be, well first is that, you know, to continue caring about this issue supporting women journalists. World Press Freedom Day is coming up on May 3 and the theme this year is that press freedom drives all other human rights so journalists really are providing access to crucial information to the general public, and the support needed for women journalists is definitely something that should remain top of mind. And then for resource, I mean, I always look to the pet America online abuse field harassment manual. I don't know I must have put your that name but that's just always always on on my list and then SPLC has great guides for covering protests for students who may experience tension at protests or even police encounters and then also a cyber law guide for if your newsroom is struggling with any of that. Those are mine. This is a lease I can go next. I would want people to come away just really feeling that this is not okay. You know, it is not okay. No journalist woman journalist woman journals of color should have to endure what they are enduring every single day. And we should all be accountable to making sure that news organizations individuals nonprofit organizations are addressing this because the consequences are very dire for our agency. They matter. And as far as resources are concerned I'll just reiterate, you know, Gigi and I work together so much on these issues. The coalition against online violence has 70 plus organizations that are a part of the coalition and that's a lot of brainpower, working towards supporting women journalists and ending attacks online. This is Gigi. I think one takeaway which we briefly talked about at the end is for journalists separating the personal and professionals is something very, very important and I really, really recommend. And if you need anything reach out to any of us will be very happy to help for resources. Thank you so much for the question the coalition against online violence we work together on lots to support people there are so many organizations that provide the support. And if you need anything in other languages, the online harassment feed manual we have it adapted and translated to five languages. So this is a good resource for anyone that needs as well. And using thank you so much to our panelists for talking of sharing their expertise their stories their knowledge. You know really grateful y'all were able to join us today and thank you so much to everyone for listening and have a good rest of the rest of y'all states. Thank you for covering the session. Nice to see everybody have a great day.