 Welcome everyone. This is the 19th of May. It's documentation office hours. Topics I've got Kevin's unavailability. Pipeline steps ref end of life notifications early end of life anything else that needs to go on the list Chris did you want some something for Google summer of code. Yeah, probably yeah. Okay so let's put Google summer of code. Meg anything you want to add to the list. Nope, I'm more listening than anything. Okay, great. All right so let's go first topic then Kevin Martin's unavailable until June 12 so Kevin has shared with the board, the Jenkins board that he'll be unavailable until the 12th of June. We're, we're trying to decode what can we do to handle his absence as documentation officer so one of the things we'll do is accept that we're going to delay this the work on this Java 11 to Java 17 transition. This is where we need to document how to install make our default documentation install from Java 17 rather than from Java 11. So it's not time critical, but we wanted to get it started around the time that Debbie and 12 releases. Right now they've announced Debbie and 12 release sometime in June. So, I'm not overly worried by it. Do we have do any. I've been out of it but a couple of years ago. We had some guidance for performance for the various Java things to do and it was sort of Java release specific are there any changes of that for 17 anything like that or not that we've detected the, in fact we've heard. And some anecdotes that hint that Java 17 in general behaves a little faster. Oh, without without a lot of custom tuning I do Chris do you have any specific experience there. I've heard about it but personally I don't, I don't know is that that much of a difference, maybe a little bit. Yeah, that that's me I haven't seen a dramatic that was true for 11 over eight but as I recall our support people and what's the guy's name God. And if you know who I mean he did those wonderful presentations that forum. Right. Right and he, but there were different things you did to optimum or did or didn't do to optimize performance and 11 over eight. And I don't know if there's things like that. If we don't have anything like that written up then we don't have to worry about updating. Yeah, I'm, I'm not aware of anything I know the cloud bees on their documentation site has some of those kinds of recommendations but as far as I recall we haven't put any of those on the Jenkins site. Okay. All right. Okay, so, so now the next piece is there there are certainly other things that Kevin does for instance he would regularly review the pull requests submitted to Jenkins that I owe. And what we're proposing there is hey until mid June when he's back let's invite others to assist. So Bruno Verracht and has agreed to assist. He's based in Europe. Meg I wanted to check with you would you be willing to assist with the idea being that what I'll do is when I see something I think you could help with a review on I'll actually just go in and I'll assign the pull request to you if you're okay with that. That's fine well I get mail notification of that then. Let's test it and see. So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to assign this draft pull request to you. Okay. And let's see if you get email that tells you that it's been assigned. Okay. So there we see it now you can, you can, you can select here. You can select that and you'll see only the, the those that are assigned to you this is a draft you don't have to review it but just for purposes of the test certainly. Let's see we'll see that the calendar was made me a box I can tell. I don't seem nothing yet. So you may have to adjust your notification settings on Jenkins.io. Okay. So here which is settings, and then email notifications. Oh no that's not it. There's there's a setting that there's a thing that you adjust as a, oh what you want to be, oh here it is. It's in the unwatch thing here. So top right hand corner under unwatch, I'm doing all activity if you change it to participating and at mentions. So that should, that should assure you that you get notified. Okay, we'll figure it out and it wouldn't kill me to go and look once in a while. Well, and if you'd like, if you're willing, I can certainly also just send you an email and say hey, I've assigned this to you. So the crucial thing for me is, are you okay with me using this assignee as a way to indicate hey this is one for you. And we'll work it out if I miss stuff you can. Great. Okay, so agreed. All right, super. Thank you. Chris any objections from you that that for me feels like it's a workable process for Meg to contribute. And I'll tend to assign you lightweight things Meg it's not I'm not going to give you the monsters because that that just doesn't seem reasonable. So I don't, I mean, there was back in the day sometimes I would do those that I was in no position to approve or anything but I could go through and catch some of the stuff and highlight to you things to look at. Right, you could go through faster so great whatever works for you I always enjoy working with you I always learn something though. Thank you. Thanks very much. I'll do the weekly change logs. That's not a not a big burden because most of it's automated. And for the upcoming long term support release 2.401.1. I'll handle change log and upgrade guide as a way to be sure that I'm still able to do that confidently. Kevin's done the last four or five maybe six or seven. And so I've gotten a little rusty. Yeah. Like riding a bicycle you will forget. We hope so yes. The release lead for Alex Alexander Brandis is release lead. And he's been patient with me in the past that set of changes doesn't look huge. Anything else on on Kevin's absence. Nope. Okay next topic then was Google Summer of Code Chris, what topics would you like there. Um, so I think I would like to discuss about this, like the documentation processes of different projects. Because like, right now we don't have a sanctuaries ways to do things. So it was like, different people adopt different kind of like technologies for keeping track of documentation. And we may want to make some recommendations about to do what he is with what's available. That's all things. Okay, so are you talking about documentations for plugins or documentation for Jenkins core. Tell me more about which type of documentation. Are you referring to documentations for documentation for blind steps. Projects. So it's like for how to keep track of the projects. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, I can say we're talking about these projects. That's that's why it's a portrait management morning. So then, okay, documentation this way. Okay, good. So let's show we talk through some alternatives. Yeah. Okay, so some alternatives and techniques we've used in the past. So one is Google Doc to maintain notes, maintain meeting notes. Log posts for status reports. And so this was let's call this the past techniques flawed and imperfect as they were blog post for status reports meetups for interactive sessions for demos and interactive question and answer. Now, one of the recent technique that I've seen. Oh, and and one more zoom recordings. Yeah, to capture the meetings with notes and recording posted to community dot Jenkins that I'll. So one of the things that I think it may have been you Chris actually that's doing it or maybe it was Adrienne or Bruno but someone was using instead of you they were using Google Doc for meeting notes but instead of using zoom. They're using Google Meet. Not us. You say that's not you. Okay. So the benefit of this one was the recording is immediately available. Yeah. Is it to all participants or to at least some so it's, it's, it's immediately available without upload to YouTube. Yeah, but the downside is you don't have a copy on YouTube. Correct. Yeah. That's, and that that is YouTube is effectively an archival site for us on others. Good point. Yeah. What are you doing for the and whatever they call it the initiation week or two that first bit do you have things planned for that or we do community bonding is in progress. All right. And each group is meeting with each set of mentors are meeting with the contributor. And then there is a checklist provided by the org admins that we're using to be sure that we make sure we do the do the community bonding well. There's also a checklist on the project overall. Right. And then there's an overall checklist. That was provided by the org admins. And that just came out. Was it yesterday, Chris, maybe today. I think it was yesterday. Yeah, so very recently. Yeah. And again, mentors use that to to assure we stay on track, etc. So, Kristen, now that alternative technique stuff that may not be describing what you are most interested in what what other things were of interest to you or what other areas were of concern. I think so I might be interested in is to use something like, I mean, I'm thinking it's like, I think we've used it in the past for some projects. So get a wiki. That's one. So, like, maybe, maybe, like, we can try like Trello, or maybe get projects, depending on the like development of the resource. So it's like for projects, it may not be available for some people for certain projects like Jenkins, so I'll be building. Okay. I can get that can like keep track of like different tasks more readily. So, so Trello, Trello and GitHub projects are both quite good at task tracking right that's. Yeah. So in and in terms of that couldn't we also consider using. If we're talking about task tracking. We could also consider Jenkins JIRA. Right. I mean, also crow uses Jenkins JIRA quite effectively with epics to capture the big picture. Then individual issues. Or smaller tasks. But, but we're the contuber to have access to it. Yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, so, so that one, the use use their Jenkins dot IO account. Okay. Yeah, true. Now GitHub, we absolutely are confident they've got a GitHub account. If they don't, it's easy for them to create one. Yeah. And just with GitHub. Somebody and captain who's very good is actually because we have, we are not using JIRA for, for the open source work. And we just have a label. It's an epic label. So we have documentation and then he has sort of a form where, you know, describe the problem and what's the solution going to look like in all this and then, and then manually as you create the individual issues at the bottom, there's a list of issues that are tied to that. So there is a way to get that epic concept into GitHub to get up issues. Yeah. I'd never thought of that, but I thought it was quite clever and it works nicely. How sophisticated are your people do you what what I saw quickly last year, which was that all of us spent a lot of time individually trying to tell people why you didn't do like one PR to represent the summer. You know, the, you know, the whole of the small PR, and you forget that bugged me at first too, because I was used to thinking of the big thing, you know, and I realized it would have been much easier if we'd done that as a group done initial training on this is how you do stuff, rather than where you're constantly criticizing them and then they'd feel beleaguered and they'd go off and they'd try to do better and it's like, okay, I'll only put eight weeks of work into this. Instead of all the murder. Right. Right. So, for me, I think that's, that's a general advice, right. Right. Just open source practice and. Yeah, that's a question that harsh, the GitLab plugin modernization contributor asked, Hey, do you prefer small pull requests or large. And that was an easy one small because it almost always benefits everybody when you do the work. It is real work to break a large idea into small pull requests but that work is very, very useful to all of us. Right. And with that, I mean, I will maintain with docs you can't always do that if you're like moving a bunch of stuff around it's really impossible with a bunch of little ones. Because x refs aren't going to get everything put in but. So Chris, do you have you have one of these methods that that is you to which you are leaning heavily are you thinking hey I'm going to do it this way. I might try to adopt Jira this year, because I was thinking about trial but it's like Jerry isn't way better because he also more features. Oh, yes he and I'm, I'm prone to if I if we need epics. I would buy us towards using Jira just because it's, it's already familiar. I'm not sure whether it's better or worse than anything else but it's already familiar and we've got the system. Okay. Good. All right. Great. Any other topics that you wanted to discuss related to Google Summer of Code Chris. Nope. Okay. But the remaining topics actually are not especially crucial that we discussed them here so we had a damaged page on Jenkins.io that is fixed, did some reverse some some bisecting to find out what broke it, and then wrote a test to assure that it stays fixed. And don't have time right now and probably won't for a month or two to decode why this thing broke. Just see that it did. And, and there is therefore a blocked change request that is failing tests and that's why it's blocked. Right. So this one right here will remain blocked because the test will keep failing until we figure out why the tests, what's really causing the thing to fail to do its job. At low risk, there's no real harm yet. So long as this thing never passes the test and still doesn't deliver its content. The site looks just fine. So the steps reference that they get inside the dashboard is not affected by this or it is not. So in when you say dashboard you mean inside Jenkins itself Jenkins yeah yeah completely unaffected all but this affected was this page and it's working correctly now so we go to pipeline. And if we look at pipeline steps. When I would search for checkout. It will find this pipeline SCM step I click that link. And in the broken case this phrase nested choice of objects would be immediately followed by this thing. Having lost all of the intervening content between them. Interesting. Yeah, it changes the size of this file from when it's corrects correctly sized it's 75 or more kilobytes incorrectly sized it's less than five kilobytes. So it's easily tested. And that that really is it the other items I've got a pull request pending to announce end of life for operating systems as we get close to their end of life and proposal to do early end of life for red hat Linux seven. And that's that's really it any other topics for today's meeting. Nope. Okay, then let's call it done for today and I've got a bunch of recordings to upload to get things done. Thanks everybody and you don't have PR is sitting there that need me right now right. I do not. Okay. I shall wait for your beckoning. All right, thanks make thanks. Thanks Chris.