 Hi everyone, my name is Michael Glasser, and you're here for high security and access control. Is that what everybody's here for? Really? Think so. Think so? Good. Everybody in my room? Great. I came here today to give a basic overview of high security locks and access control electronics, with the main idea that everyone here probably has a question about something they've seen. I'm going to show you some new things that I guarantee you haven't seen, or hope you haven't seen, some of our prison devices. And I've seen other lock-picking talks where they go into a lot of detail about the functional parts of locks. So I'm here for a general overview, because there's no way I can cover every lock out there. So if anyone has a question at any time, throw a hand in the air, I'll answer it. And if it's too technical, I'll tell you the ghost something. So let's get started. This is my ammo box. I mean, Navy stores are great. They really work well, too. Waterproof. First thing, if anyone went to the lock-picking talk, this would be, I wish I had a camera here, so they ever could see very much closer. Unfortunately they don't, so anyone who wants to look, go like this. And it'll work better. This is a basic cylinder. Everybody has one in the door somewhere, in their office, in their car, somewhere. There's a cylinder. The key goes in, it turns, everybody's happy. And if anyone went to the lock-picking talk before, they understand how pins ride up and down, and have shear lines. And if anyone doesn't understand that, play along. Because going through details of that would take me 20 minutes to explain something very basic. Not to question anybody, but that's just not what I'm here for today. So that's a basic pin tumbler, just pins. Now I'm going to go into something a little bit more, more bigger. Okay. This is more bigger. Little, not so little. See, they're different. Now, this is a Folder-Adams pin tumbler cylinder. It's very large. If you look in the keyway, that's the part where the key goes in. If you look in the keyway, you can see there are ball bearings, because that way the key rolls in and out, it's also more pick-resistant, and a few other things I'm not going to go into details of. But there's a very specific purpose for this cylinder. Has anyone here ever seen this cylinder before? Well, where'd you end up if you have? Anybody? You have? What's it out of? What's it out of? Where did you see the cylinder? It's eight o'clock, isn't it? I hope you don't remember anybody else. What's it out of? Prison door. Very good. It's a prison door. This is a Folder-Adams detention cylinder. If any of you guys know what this is, except for him, stay away from my room. And that's what this is. This is what you go into many, many most. Most prisons in the United States will see something like this. You're probably not going to be able to get your hands on these unless you know somebody, because they're very much controlled so that people don't get information about them and don't play with them. If you can, we'll power to you, but it's really hard to get these. It just so happens I sell them, so it was easy to borrow one for a day. What else? This is a piece of brass. This is a Nabob cylinder. Nabob is an Israeli company. Have any of you ever heard of Multilock? Everybody say, yeah, I'll go with all those hands. Multilock uses a pin and pin system where on a normal cylinder you would have a pin with another pin on top of it, and when the shear line meets, it separates. In Multilock, you have a pin that's hollow with another pin inside of it so that there's actually two pins to go up and down. Now, both shear lines have to match, which makes it a bitch to pick. They say it's pick-resistant. I know a guy would pick something like 30 seconds. I suck. It takes me like five minutes. But most people cannot and probably will not be able to ever pick those. Nabob came out and said, hey, Multilock's pattern's up. Screw them. Let's make the same thing. So Nabob, the same exact thing as Multilock with different name on it. So if everyone comes across Nabob and they go, oh, this is new. This is great. No, it's not. It's Multilock from 10 years ago when the pattern ran down. So that's Nabob. We'll get a little more electronical after I just go through the basic cut-screwing locks out there. This is what's called an ASSA twin cylinder. Like, I really wish I had this camera right now. But anyway, this is what's called an ASSA twin cylinder. The way an ASSA twin works, now, ASSA is the name of the company, ASSA Abloy. It's the company that makes it. And a twin, because unlike a normal cylinder where it has one set of cuts, if you looked very closely at this, you would see actually a set of cuts on top and a set of cuts on the side. Now, what that means is it's a bitch to pick. It's that simple. Why? Because you have to pick the top and you have to pick the side. The side rather than being pinned to sit on top are pins that have a little finger that rides along the side of it. So it's very, very hard to pick. It's one of the hardest out there. I know guys who can do it, I personally can't. I've tried and have not been successful. It is pickable as they're all locks. It's a bitch though. That's the ASSA twin. It's a very good lock. This is a fichet. If you can see the key from that direction, it's kind of funny looking. I actually got four sets of pins in there. It's a bitch to cut. It's a bitch to pick, because it just has a lot of it. It's supposed to be super high security, so my answer is get a drill and you drill it. But we didn't hear that from me. It works. When you're going to break into somewhere, you're probably not going to pick the lock unless you work for the government. I'm sure somebody here works for the government and they say, yeah, burglars don't break in that way. Burglars break the window or they kick in the door. If you want real security, you go out and get like a Fox police lock with huge bars across the door. Or you put a couch in front of the door, like that. A lock isn't going to keep somebody really determined out. I'm a volunteer fireman in New Jersey. And if I want to get into your door and my tools aren't working, I take my chainsaw and cut around the lock and I just open the door. So, yes, it can be done as hard as it might seem. Some people in the front are laughing. People are in the back aren't laughing. Tell me why. I must be doing something wrong. Come on. I'm a social person here. This is called Miwa. Miwa, if you look at the key, don't look like very much because it has magnets in the sides. Now, instead of physically moving the pins back and forth, they use magnetism, which I'm sure everybody knows positive, negative, you know, sucky-sucky kind of thing. Everybody knows it. You can zook and poof if you put it the other way. And it just uses it that if the magnet's in the right direction, it moves the pins to the right place. If they're in the right place, the lock will open. It's called Miwa. It's from Japan. They've actually just, Miwa America was just taken over by Miwa Japan again because they weren't doing too well at selling them. So you've probably never seen this. If you have, then no power to you. The keys are easily made. You just take a magnet and you pound it in here with a hammer. That's how you make a key, literally. Take a little magnet and you put it on that and you go pop. And then you do it with positive or negative. Some of them are positive, negative, or sideways because then you have the positive and one side negative and I guess you guys can figure that out. Read right head, blah, blah, blah. How pickable are they? If you can get a magnet, let's move it sideways. If you can get a magnet that small in there, very easily. I designed a device which I haven't had anybody engineer for me and any of you guys are real good micro engineers, call me. Where it would just simply be the same exact thing as a key with a couple of little read-teds to read the magnetism positive, negative, or sideways and then just go out and make my key with my little hammer and done. Beat it in 10 seconds. Or just invert the polarity and really quickly done. This is Sargent Standard Cylinder. Sargent's a good brand. Compared to Remind at work, but they're still a good brand. I got a whole box of shit. If you flip the lock apart and forget to put the right tool in there, it kind of falls apart and you get a big hole in the middle. That's crap. That's crap. That's crap. Ah! This is crap too, but it's more expensive crap. This is a concept type security lock. I have never seen these before except the way the friend shopped the other day. I went, what the hell is that with your shelves? He was like, I found this in the garage shelf for $5. So I bought it. It's just three sets of pin tumblers. The only reason the key has four is because it looks cooler. And it's sharp. You can stab somebody with this thing. It's really sharp. And it's just three sets of pin tumblers. This concept is generally known for making their Jimmy-proof locks. If you've ever been to New York, I don't know if they have them out here. I'm from that area. It looks like there's almost three teeth. When you close the door, there's another thing with three teeth. It goes clunk and a bolt goes down. That's a Jimmy-proof or a slam drop bolt or there's a whole bunch of names for them. I also happened to make this thing which I found. I thought it was really cool because I didn't have one. No, I do. And you don't. What's this? This is an old Corbin jumbo cylinder. If you look at a normal size cylinder, it's just a little bit bigger. There were multiple reasons for this. One, it gave you more Master King possibilities. If anyone knows about Master King, you're actually just adding more pins on top. It just makes life easier when you have more room to play with. So you have more combinations. It also was good because once you drilled out a hole in the door and you messed it up because you got drunk the night before and you kind of turned your drill sideways and left the mark, you drill out a bigger hole and you put the jumbo cylinder into the lock and then you cover up your hole. But don't ever mess up and don't drink before working with power tools. It really sucks. But if anybody wants to buy me a drink while I'm up here, I'd be happy to take it. This is your Denny. Your Denny is another dimple key system much like the Multilock. But the Multilock has the pin-in-pin. This is just a standard dimple key. There's pins on top that, if you look at the key, it looks almost flat. They used to call them computer keys. They used to call them all kinds of things. It just, the pins are right on top of the key rather than being on the edge of the key. Very high security. Hard to pick. Impossible to pick. So you take one, then you cut all the depth. The deep is taking possibly go. And then you can impression it. If you know what impression is, real quick. Basically what happens is you take this key and you have different depths of the dimples where you just cut them all extra deep. Take a piece of tinfoil or silver tape. Tape it across the top. Put it in there and start wiggling. Locks naturally want to work. So the tinfoil kind of starts to dent and dent and dent until you get to the right spot and the lock opens. I know a guy, Barry, who I met at the H2K conference. I was on the panel with him there. He could do that in about 15 seconds to most dimple locks. And I just looked him and went, shit. I didn't know that. Now I know. Because I never even thought of doing it that way. But hey, he's pretty damn good. He's like his website, but I don't know if it's top of my head. I looked for Barry the Key Wells somewhere. He's smart. Lockpicking.nl. Who said that? Thank you guy over there. Was I good over there? I didn't suck. I had a huge ass lock. I had a multi lock that was this big but to take it out on the plane with me would have been a bitch. As was any of my electronics because anything with flashy lights and buttons on a plane it really, really pisses him off. I mean, everybody, when I was on the plane I dressed like this. Normally I'm going to look like a biker. But I dressed like this on the planes and for speeches and I went on, they searched my shoes they checked my pants, they checked my... Come on, I look like this. I should have dressed like a biker that would let me through with my guns and knives and shit. Okay, it's everything out of that box. So that was my quick high security lock part. Does anybody have any questions on any locks they have in the house or anything? What the hell is medical? Did I cover medical? Somebody stole my medical locks. Actually, no, I must give them away or something. Yes, sir. Okay, we'll get to those in one second. I'm going to cover medical. I'll get right to that though. The BMW Sidewinder or laser cut keys. If anybody's seen... One second. If anybody's seen... What is that? 360 seconds where he's talking about these laser cut impossible to break keys. The laser cut has nothing to do with it. It's the transponder in there, which we can involve that in one second. Medical first. Medical is probably the most popular high security lock in the United States. I think it's one of the greatest. It's competitive of mine, but I still think it's a damn good lock. I'm supposed to be here talking about the Cobb-up pyramid lock, but my boss forgot to give me one, so I can't talk about it too much. That's a damn good lock, too. It's a dimple key system. Now, the medical lock works in a very, very unique way. The pins that normally come up and down, up and down, up and down, still go up and down, up and down, up and down. But if you look at the tip of it, instead of being round, it's cut into, like, almost a slot. It's called a chisel point, because it looks like a chisel. Now, this has to turn in either center, left or right, which makes it a real bitch to pick. Now, this has to turn in either center, left or right, which makes it a real bitch to pick. I know very few people who can possibly do it. Some claim they can do it every time, because there's a little wire that can go in and feel around the corner. But it doesn't work on a new one if they fix that problem. There you go, photograph. Cool. Now, um, Medico, I think it's a very good lock. I wish I had one to show you guys, but I messed up and don't have one, and that's where I leave that. But I'm sure you can find one around. They're very popular. Now, let's see. First, we talk BMW, then we get to your, what was your question? Round locks you see on phones in common lock boxes. You mean where it looks like a tubular thing, like a vending machine? Is that what you mean? Okay, I'll cover his first, because yours is a little bit harder. Tubular locks, instead of having the guy who was here before he had one with him, is he still around somewhere? Hey, still around somewhere. He did this early in lock picking. Tubular locks work in the same concept, only a different functional way. Instead of having the pins all on a straight line in, they're in a circle, and they work the same way, the same shear line, just like each one has its individual shear line, and all you do is you put it in, you're pushing all those pins in, and when it gets to the shear line it turns. It's a very simple concept, but they're very easily beaten if poorly designed. Because if the manufacturer doesn't build it extremely well, you can impression it, which I was talking about with these, really quickly. Same concept, there's a dimple key. They have a special tool for it, it has a bunch of little metal fingers that go in there, and with the proper tool you can press those in 10 seconds real quick, get it open, and it works just like a normal key. So you go up to a vending machine, and I want a Coke. Doop! Open, open, open, thank you Coke out. Put it back, doop, doop, lock it again, and then leave the 50 cents at the bottom saying thanks for the Coke. And never steal, it's not nice. I'm serious, no, I don't steal. And what else? The Sidewinder type keys. I'm sure if any of you have ever seen a new Volkswagen or BMW, any expensive keys, where it doesn't look like they're cuts in the end, it looks like this kind of Sidewinder thingy looking thing, that's the key he's talking about. The way that works is just like any other key, it's just a different way of doing it. Now the reason why it's hard to pick is because it's really hard to get your picks in there that work the way for it properly, but there's this guy named Randy Meis, he's a little southern guy, with like two teeth. And he works for a company called Lockmasters. He's a real nice guy also. One day he was at a car dealership and he was a locksmith who went to open a locked car. And it was a BMW which is deadlocked electronically, which for reasons I'm not going to get into, you can't open standard tools because it relaxes itself and all kinds of other bullshit that's real bad. And what it is, it sucks when you have to open one, they don't waste it. Oh shh, don't tell. So he decides, he wants to open it up and the BMW dealership calls up headquarters and tells him we've got a lot of that locked out. We have a locksmith here, what's the easiest way to get open. And the BMW guy goes, who the fuck is a locksmith smart enough to open this car? And Randy gets so pissed off, he starts flipping out. What the fuck you mean? You know, he starts, in the biggest Southern draw he ever heard, starts screaming and yelling. And he goes out there and he looks with a pair of binoculars and reads the key by sight. And he goes, takes his hand file and cuts the key by hand, opens the door, says fuck you the dealer and goes back and invents a lockpick for it. So, as he's all pissed off he goes back to shopping. It's called the flip-pick lock bastard sells it. There's also a European version which is, I do not know if the European version made it their own, so I don't want to question that. I don't know if they made their own or just copied it. I know he invented his, he didn't see it anywhere else. So he made this thing and he stick it in and it fuels it out and then pop right open. You can pick these BMWs in like 10 seconds if you're good. Right away, really easy to learn, really easy to do and so fuck them. However, the transponder which I mentioned before is a little electronic computer-y thingy which I'm sure you guys heard of electronic computer-y thingies. And it's in the head of the key with a hidden serial number and you can read off the transponder, you can clone it that way but without the transponder number, to beat the computer is a real bitch. I personally don't know very many easy ways to bypass the computer. You can't brute force it, they have timeouts on that. After three false keys it goes 10 minute delay, shit like that, standard brute force stuff. And it's a bitch. If you guys figure it out, call me up in the party. But it's a real bitch to beat the transponder system. Easiest way to throw it in the back of a tow truck that'll steal almost any car. Okay, what else? Okay, so I'm out of all this good lock stuff unless anybody wants to learn about safe locks but that's hard to learn public feeling without any good stuff behind me. But there's behind me. I think they had a screen here before. Hand up, what's up? Electric lock picks. Okay, we'll go into, we don't want to be on lock picking but I'll give a real quick overview. When you're picking a lock you're just trying to get a pick gun which forcibly takes, it's basically like pool balls. When you go play pool, if you hit the first cue ball the next ball moves and the cue ball stays where it is if you hit them real tight. So what it does is it hits its bottom pin, the top pin shoots up and leaves a hole in the middle. So you shoot it up and you turn real quick. Now electric lock picks and it just takes a vibrator and extracts it to the back of a lock pick because it does it really fast, faster than my hand can do it. It's the same concept. It smacks it and the other pin jumps up. So basically you can get it to most places. These locks generally will not work. These are high security pick, resistant, bullshit, you know. And I can't pick most of these. I'm not thinking of picking locks that I don't claim to be. I know the theory behind it. But blah, blah, blah, blah, good shit. Electric lock picks are good shit if you want to get in somewhere quick. It takes no talent, no skill, very little talent, very little skill, but you can do it. Talk to me. Computer designed picks and computer designed profile. Computer designed picks. What they are are basically rake picks. I'll get to you in one second, guide it back. If I forget, raise your hand again, I'm dumb. Computer designed picks take the most commonly designed patterns of locks, setups, and put them onto a pick and then you kind of wiggle the thing and rock it back and forth and you get lucky. That's what computer picks are. What you're doing is getting lucky because they're designed the most common ways to design patterns. Of course, most locks are not going to be... There's certain tolerances you will not have 111111, pin depths all across because you take the thing and you go in and it opens. There's certain patterns that they try to follow and turn in spacing. So computer picks are just the most common spacing and things. Guide it back in the iron shirt. Marlok. I'm not familiar with it. That sounds to me like some kind of electronic access control device I do not know about. If you tell me the name later, I'll write it down and I'll know for you tomorrow. Email. Yes. We're not up to that yet. That's the electronic access part. Thank you. At this point, I'm still talking physical keys and locks and things that you can break with a hammer really easy. What's up? Mushroom pins are still completely used. All that does is make it harder to pick instead of having a smooth, cylindrical... Basically, I can. If you buy a can of soup, a smooth part. They take it and they cut a notch into it and it makes it harder to pick. Mushroom pins are still commonly used and tons of things. American padlocks. They also use all kinds of good stuff. Anybody? Oh, sure. And then you're in the back. Simplex locks. Next part. I'm actually a manufacturer's rep for them. The other guy in the company is I work for the same company, though. Next. Control blank distribution. To me, getting a key isn't hard. Getting a restricted key should be a real bitch. What I mean by restricted keys is you go out to the store, you have a quick set key, you go to Home Depot, you say, give me a copy and say, sure. What happens when you have a business with you, you have employees and you don't want everybody making copies for the friends so they can come rob you or you don't trust your sister so you give her a key once and you want it back, you know, she doesn't make any copies. You go with a restricted key system. Everybody has one in a while where it says, best do not duplicate or ace do not duplicate. So you go out to the Home Depot guy and you say, do not duplicate and he does it anyway. That's not really restricted. That was restricted like 15 years ago. Medical has restricted, asset has restricted. There's all kinds of different restricted. The easiest way to do this and to explain it is basically that there's different... I'm fucking this up pretty bad. I'm repeating myself here. This card system is the first one. Let's go with medical card systems. You have a key. If you want a copy of your key, you come with basically a credit card, this wipe. It sends the information down to medical. Medical sends back the key cuts and they can do it. To get those key blanks, you have to be signed up with medical. As a medical authorized dealer signing a whole non-cheating contract, you won't give away the keys, etc. Assers has the same kind of setup. A lot of other companies have the same kind of setup. You can't get the keys unless you're special. There's government issued keyways. Medical has government issued keyways. I personally still can't get. But then again, you go out and you take some liquid pewter and you take your thumb and you push it against. You see the little imprint of it and you push it down and you can make your own keys real quick just by impressioning the shape of the keyway. It's played though, hell. Impression shape of the keyway, impression into some sand pouring some pewter and you got yourself a key. That defeats pretty much every key control method out there. However, don't do that because that's not very nice. I'm sorry for messing up the whole restricted key access thing. It's an easy concept to explain, but I'm not drunk enough yet. Anyway, anybody else with lock type questions? In the back in the orangish shirt. Okay, master key systems. You've been much better explained by the lock picking guy. Real quick though, how much time? Maybe I have a watch? Everybody has a watch. 40 minutes. Cool, we have lots of time. Last time I did this, I ran out early. Okay, master key system. You have a pin. If this is over your head, I apologize. I won't be long. You have a pin. You have a top pin. When they come together, the lock don't move. When they come apart at the shear line it moves nice. Everybody's happy. All master keys is you throw another pin in the middle. So you have multiple shear lines. If you throw another pin in the middle you can move either down here or up here. By doing that you have multiple options so different keys can work the same lock. There's all kinds of standard issue master locksmith bullshit about how different master key system works. You have the AA, the BB, the master, the grandmaster, the super-grandma, all kinds of shit. Basically, if you have a master key master key is going to work more than one lock. All the locks in the building are going to work on the same master key so that the janitor doesn't have a huge ring on his belt. The janitor has a huge ring on his belt getting the locksmith. That's it. If you need more info about, one second. If you need more info about master keys come talk to me after buy me a drink. I love people who buy me drinks. I'll tell you anything you want to know about locks. You and then you. I'm sorry. You, you, and then you. Yes. They came first, you've got your question. No problem. You and then nobody. Mathematical algorithms that figure shit out that I hate doing so I have a computer program to do it for me. Basically, you have six pins or so. So you put different combinations where different keys will work different heights and by putting different master chips in you can get amazing, I can work this up a system where I have one key that will work ten different locks a different key that will work five out of those ten different locks a different key that will work two out of those ten different locks a different key that will work one out of those ten different locks. It's all math and computers and great shit. Go on the internet and you can find master keying very basically and there's programs out there for it and I can teach you the algorithm for it if I remember it, which I don't. It's very, very basic mathematical calculations. Yes, over there. I would want to say many, many, many, many, many. Many, many, many, many. And you can even put in more than two pins. I've done master key systems like if any of you have ever heard of IC Core just one second, IC Core where it's that best key that's kind of got the square head that says those are usually IC Core which is interchangeable core keys those have the regular pin then usually a master pin then usually a change key pin then a top pin then a spring and a cover plate and then you put in a lock. So they can be a lot of fricking pins. That's why I talked about the Corbin Jumbo which is just more room for more pins for better master key systems. Yes. Much, much easier to pick much, much easier to pick master keys I should have mentioned that, thank you. Okay, wafers. Wafers are the same concept of moving up and down to a shear line but as a rule they're much easier to pick simply because the tolerances are less specific. In a wafer lock instead of having a pin that goes up and down you have a flat piece of metal that's shaped with a little cut in the middle. Put your key in, it moves the wafer either down or up and the top and bottom have to line up the outside edge and it matches the shear line. That's a wafer. They're usually a lot easier to pick. I'd suggest learning not on them because they give you a full sense of gratification and then you turn around and try to pick your house like, oh, you're all disappointed. If you're going to learn how to pick a lock, go to a locksmith, you can't tell them why because they usually won't do it but if he's a cool guy you can ask them, oh, you rock. I like you. Holy shit. After watching you and Barry I contacted a party I found online I said I was a bona fide locksmith and he sent me this whole pool of locks. Wait, you're a criminal. You said you're a bona fide locksmith and you're not? Actually, a bona fide locksmith appointed to the statute was anyone who picked locksmith. Cheers to that. That's a pretty cool guy. I like him. Have you practiced picking at all? Come on up. Have you picked with you? I'm horrible at picking locks. I picked it yesterday because my last job as a locksmith before I turned into a suit and tie guy which I generally refer to as a suit and tie asshole my last job as a locksmith I had to go unlock this lady's door. A hundred-year-old, million-year-old lady she locked herself out. Shit happens. So I go there, I show up with a cheap quick set in an hour by picking like five seconds, put my tools down say I'll be right back going to get my bill pad she says, fine, I'll watch your stuff. So I show it back up, she's inside taking a piss, my tools are gone, my pics are gone So now I just brought a new pic set. Here you go, play. What's going to be pickable? Not that one. You want to try to pick the prison lock? You ain't going to get it. Give me your shittiest lock. Shittiest lock. Three pin, no problem. Four pin, I get stuck and five pin, I usually get nowhere. Well, you're going to be in trouble. Yeah, I'm not that good. I picked the one with the hole in it. No, that's cool. I've been doing this since I was really, really, really young. Just don't break my shit. It sucks because some people go in there and the biggest point of lock picking, which I don't want this to be on lock picking, but hey, why not? The biggest thing with lock picking is most people put too much tension on the tension wrench, which I'm not going to get into what tension wrench is or what lock picks are, but basically they bend the shit out of my tools when I let them try the first time. So don't do that. Cool, thank you. Because you bind the pins too much and you end up not getting anything. All kinds of good shit, bad shit happens. How do we turn that on? Is that what I come to? Oh, I want to see your hand up. Nobody step here and stop clapping. It takes two goddamn long. You're laughing, okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I just learned about this last week, so I'm going to talk about this and be excited. Because I went out to a job where the construction key wasn't working and I went, uh-oh, uh-oh. So I showed up and I went, this sucks, the guy's built the room. It was actually manufacturers that were from somebody's line. I'm not going to mention who's not mine. The way a master construction keys work is they, instead of taking a master chip, they add in a little ball bearing in the place of the master chip. Now that ball bearing works just like a pin or anything else. Until you put in the master key. I'm sorry, the construction changed key, construction removed key, I don't remember the name of it. What? No, it's not a normal house key. It looks just like any other key, it's just set up to a different combination. By being at that different combination when you turn it, that construction master ball bearing is just below the shear line, so it's the first pin. Now you turn to the right, or the left, for that matter, and you see a little hole in the top usually. Now, you can see that ball bearing. The proper way is you turn it all the way around and when it gets to the bottom there's a hole drilled and it just falls out the bottom. Once it falls out, it's not going to work anymore because there's no pin in there. And it's too small for the regular pin to fall out, but the ball bearing falls out and won't work anymore. That's how construction master key works. And as soon as you take the key out, it stops working from that point on. It works. So I'm sitting there like 75 lock, god damn it. Pull the thing apart, dump it down. Anyway, anybody else with lock questions? You get it yet? Why not? Come on, be cool. You can work on this one while I work on it. Okay, give me the tension wrench in the pick and give me a... Give me a diamond head. Like the little folky thingy. I don't like that one. Hold on, I'm getting my toys. I just bought this pick set yesterday. I don't have them all organized like I like them yet. Oh, by the way, I really suck at picking locks, so don't wake in front of me. Now what are we up to? Anybody else with any lock questions? We're going to go electronic now. Okay, one last lock question and we're going to go electronics. Last lock question in the middle on the white shirt. Okay, office furniture locks. What they have in the back is usually a wafer that goes too high and that holds the lock in place. Now what you do is you take an extra long key, usually. You just turn the tip and you stick it in. Just pulls that wafer down. And I'll let you pull out the whole plug. And if you're really good, you don't even pick the lock. You just take a big stick in the back and pull down the wafer and pull the whole lock out. So talk to me, people. What do you want to know about electronics? Okay, last one real quick, real quick. Padlock shims. That's a good fucking question. I didn't want to talk about that though. I talked to some of you about that at lunch. Yeah, there's a Shomer Tech as well. Padlock shims. How many people here went to high school? Cool. How many people have that shitty master combination lock on the locker? How many people can open them in under a second? Then you're the cool people here. Reason why is picture in the padlock. Well, I got padlocked here but you can't really see too well. You have the shackley... I can't do this. I'm not a good... Okay, you have a shackley thingy. That's the part that goes down. It goes in the hole and what happens is there's a little spring loaded piece here and when it goes in the hole it goes past and then locks into a channel. This is spring loaded with a notch on top so that once it locks in it can't move but it has to push this back somehow as soon as there's a bevel on it. So it locks in. So you take a padlock shim you go in next to the shackle and you push down. So you just take a little... take a three and a half inch floppy drive and you rip off the little guard on the front of the desk and you bend it into a little piece and kind of rounds it and you stick it in and it goes pop and you open up all those things in about one second and you go wow, I'm cool! It's great. That will work on many many padlocks or some will have mechanical connections that will not let you do that. Those are more good over. I like those better. They're also more expensive usually and all that good shit. Electronics! Yeah! Electronics! Electronics! Yay! Golly golly gee, golly golly gee. Okay. Why is there access control? Because somebody wanted to make money. That's it. Master key systems were working fine but they're vulnerable. You go into access control. You have card systems. You have pins with a combination keypads. You have biometric fingerprint ID, retinal scan, hand geometry. You got all kinds of good shit out there. Voice print. Now, you come up to a door. I'm going to just use real life examples because everybody here has probably been to at least one office where somebody walked up to the car and the door opened. What that usually is is going to be a couple different technologies. The first one I'll go over will be Magstripe because everybody's got an ATM card or a credit card or a hotel room key as somebody mentioned before. And what that is is just if you ever had a VCR tape it's the same shit. It's just magnetically encoded information on a little piece of film. Hey, cool. If I hit this it makes a thump. That's fun. So it's just magnetically encoded information on a piece of film. What happens then is it sends a little serial number or ID code out. Where does it go? To this box sitting in some back room called a control panel. So you have this reader, this card. The card goes to a reader. Readers send signals. Control panel. Control panel goes, who the fuck is this? Looks at his little Microsoft Access database and goes, hey, look we found Bob number one, two, three, four. He's allowed to come in from five to nine. And right now it's 430 so fuck him. He's not coming in. And it doesn't open the door. Or it says, look, it's six o'clock. Bob's allowed in. Okay. Or it says I don't know what five, three, four, nine is. So let's deny him access. Access granted. Or access denied are your usual options. If you have other options, you're pretty cool. The door is going to open. The door is not. I control other things with access control. I personally am the access control guy in my company. I also do CCTV and all kinds of other good, I've done alarm systems. I'm licensed for in New York state, but I don't, I'm not going to add it. I don't like it. Just pulling wires through addicts and crawl spaces. Until you get up to the high end and that's cool. Question chair. Other options for access control. Wait there yet. Hold up. Now, that was Magstripe. Proximity cards. Proximity cards are the ones where we just walk up, touch it and keep walking. There's also smart cards, but that's not going to do that. Walk up, just touch it and keep walking. The way that works is by shit that I don't understand. It's a wire in a circle with a little chip in the middle and it's got radio technology and engineers explain it and I didn't design it. What's up? Are you an engineer? I know, I know, I've played with it a lot. I know how it works. I just can't describe it well enough to teach it. But that's going to be a lot of details and these people here are going to go home. Describe real quick. Come on up. Nobody can hear you otherwise. Clap everybody! Good, you talk, I'll pick. Don't drink my beer. Basically what you've got is a big coil in there. I knew that. The sensor emanates a field and when you put it near there it causes induction and the coil empowers the chip. The chip says, oh, I'm awake. Let me start talking. It starts jabbering and they talk back and forth as a result and it says, let me in, damn it. Really? What language? Depends on what I've been drinking. See, I like it. That's cool. The same technology used in automated toll booth systems. No, that's different. Okay, so that's proximity. Thank you, dude. What's your name? Wait, what's your name? It can be famous. What's your name? Rob. Rob what? Ah, come on, I gave my little name. What's your nick? Where do you go by? Vogue? I don't know what the hell that means. Cool guy, Rob, with the long hair. Buy him drinks. Okay. Oh, she's going to interview now. She's cute too. Wow, look at that. I want that next. Can I have one too? Everybody hold up. Everybody hold up. Everybody come on clap for her. Come on, give me a hug. I'm visiting. Please. I love you. You are a goddess. Anyway, I'm used to hacker conventions where there's like one girl for every 3,000 guys. So I come to DEF CON, I'm kind of cool. It's like there's actual female population. And no girl is going to defend it by this. They're not Arm Candy here. It's great because in New York where I am, a lot of them are just there with guys. And here I come here and girls are teaching me shit I've never even heard about before. I'm like, wow, cool. Anyway, anybody who got offended by that took it totally wrong, so don't. Okay, what are we up to? Proximity. Let's go to Smart Cards because Isaac, if anybody knows Isaac, probably a lot of people do. But he was wrong, so I made fun of him. But he taught me a lot about there's conventional smart cards that I investigated. And there's new wireless smart cards, which is very different technology. Because anyone who's ever seen a, let's pull this shit out. These are my H2K badges because I'm cool. I went there too. Okay, this was a smart card looks like on the front. If you look real closely at the shiny thing, there'd be contact points with Connecto. They also have new wireless ones now. On the back you see a Magstripe. But I'd probably mind to work my hotel room because I want to be really cool. And yeah, so anyway, what else can I talk about? Hold on, I got a drink of beer. Beer makes you smarter. Or at least makes you think you're smarter. Okay, what were we talking about? Anybody? Anybody know? I don't know, I remember. Electronics, oh yeah, cool! Mr. Electron runs from negative to positive. Okay, so that was basic proximity. That was basic smart cards. Smart cards are smarter than proximity. Proximity cards have a serial number embedded into them. They transmit when they connect and they just send their serial number across. Very basic and shit. Smart cards now can have onboard computer chips so that when they power up, by connecting those contacts or wirelessly by inductance, when they power up they can actually do processing and all kinds of good shit. You can store a memory on them, you can store fingerprints on them, you can store faces on them, I love them. I love selling them. Anybody who wants to buy one, talk to me. I'd be happy to sell it to you. Hey, Bobcats in the back, wave to me. I just noticed him. He really hates it when I do that. Anyway, so that's smart card that's a proximity mag stripe. There's another one called WeGand out there. Now WeGand confuses people because there's two things that Mr. Dr. WeGand invented. Well, there's a lot of things, but there's two popular ones. There's the WeGand protocol, which is what a lot of access control devices use. There's ABA, which is American Bankers Association, WeGand protocols, those are the two popular access control protocols. It also goes over hours 45 and 232, but that still comes out of bullshit. I talk really fast in case you haven't noticed. Also, WeGand invented a kind of card. This card is great. I love the way it works. It's ridiculously easy to beat, but I love the way it works. It basically takes a piece of metal, you pick it, you rock, you picked it. Wait, clean that shit up before going back. Clean that shit up before going back. Come on, you picked it, clean it up. Come on, you picked it, clean it up. He's cool though, he brought me a beer, he rocks. Anyway, so, no, thank you. So WeGand basically takes a metal piece, really thin metal, and makes an image, a shape, or a square, or a circle, or a perfect shape, and then you stick it next to a little x-ray machine type thingy, it actually slides in, and it shoots Mr. Electron down through it, and it takes basically a photograph of that image, compared to its database that's the same. So how do you beat it? You sneak it to the hospital, go up to the x-ray machine, and hold it up, and you can see right through it, or you take all the bright light, and you can see right through it sometimes, and you take a piece of tin foil, and stick it to a piece of paper, and you cut out that same shape, and you stick it in the hole, and shit. Oops, I just beat the whole system. But that only works if you do it right, and there's all kinds of other bullshit to keep you from doing it. The WGAN protocol basically just sends a serial number. Same with ADA, but some way has to be between communicating from the reader to the control panel, and that's the WGAN protocol generally. There are other protocols. Now, there's a lot of things you can do with access control besides just controlling doors. You can set up different security levels, as I'm sure some people here know about. You can set up different time zones so people can go in from 9 to 5, 10 to 6. You can set up one-time users, but once it stops working, that's great for if you want to hire someone to go fix your bathroom. You give them a card, you say you're going once, after that you can't go back in. There's 100 reasons for it. There's great, great things. Now, does anybody have any questions? Because I'm sure there's going to be a few on electronic stuff. Easy pass. One second. Question in the back. What was that? Moss Hamilton X08. My company is a manufacturer's rep but unless I'm wrong, which is that? The padlock? That's the X02. Oh, that's the electronic safe dial. Oh, that's the safe dial you're talking about, right? Okay, I've done a lot with Massham safe dials, but I was always tired and screwing them on doors and busy. Moss Hamilton has a very creative idea for safe dials, which I'm not going to get into safes, but real quick, they actually have a generator built in so when you turn the outside of the dial, it creates electricity by turning with this thing called stuff and makes electricity and once it does that, it powers up the lock and goes, and you punch a new code and that's one way. I don't know if that's the X08. I'm really not sure off the top of my head. I don't know those locks that well, but now that you've created electricity, most of them are battery operated or you have to plug in something. That's Massham. Who wants to talk biometrics? Nobody. Fuck you guys. Okay, yeah? You have a question? Oh, the EZPass question, I'm sorry. Okay, EZPass is more gooder than proximity because what EZPass is actually has a little battery in there, but they don't tell you that. And if you crack it open, it messes the thing up. EZPass is a basic transducer system. If I'm using the wrong word, somebody points it out and tell me I'm looking like an idiot. But EZPass is a very basic transducer system. It's got an antenna. It's got an EZPass. It goes under, it says, hey, yo, I'm here, serial number. And the reader goes, okay, okay, you're out of money. That's the EZPass. They're almost all the same. Yes, sir. How would you view the Magstripe Block? With a hammer. Magstripe is a very, very, I consider it a good technology. The easiest way is, all you have to do is get your hand on somebody's car and you can copy it real quick with the proper technology. But to actually defeat the Magstripe Block, there are Magstripe picks per se. I personally don't really believe in them because what they do is they try to brute force the Magstripe and you have to have the right protocol and everything. And if you wrote your software right, which I guess somebody here has probably programmed, you could just make it stop after like three tries. Yes, over there. EZPass only transits when it goes near. It gets hit by a signal and says, yo, what's up? And sends it up. And if it always transits, it would be great for attacking you. What do you think? What? I'm not familiar with Fast Track. It's probably the same thing. They're almost all the same. They're around here. You put it in your car and you drive through a old booth. Yeah, they're almost all the same. Yes. I don't know. Read the back of it. He asked for frequency. He says, what the fuck are you doing? I got one sitting on the top of my car. If you want to come back to my house in New Jersey, you can come look at it. Take a frequency counter next to it. How many at a time? 20 minutes. Is anybody getting bored yet? Want to do some other cool shit? Okay, who's getting bored? How do you go out? Juggle? I'm not good at that. I'll drop on my foot and break my toes and then you'll have to carry me home. Biometrics. Okay, fingerprint retinol or body geometry, hand geometry, what do you want to talk about? Retinol. What do you want? How do you defeat hand geometry readers? Take a hand in it. Got the guy's hand off. Take it in the hole. Okay, real quick. Okay. Yes. Laser is it burns your fingers off. In Chinese metal. What this is doing is it's we'll do hand geometry first because it's very basic technology. Before we do retinol, we have to retinol in a second. It's just harder to explain unless you're an optometrist, which I'm not. Okay, hand geometry. You have a hand. It's your hand. Nobody else has the same hand. You stick it in this reader. Once you punch in your code, it goes and checks its database and says this guy's hand should look like this. Why does it do that? Because it's hard to identify anyone's hand. So it says this guy's hand should look like this. If it doesn't look like that, it goes shit. If it doesn't look like that, it goes good. It measures point to point, knuckle to knuckle, tip to knuckle, thumb to pinky, thickness of fingers, samples, random points. I personally don't like them. They're supposed to run the wall because it's huge. Come on and laugh. That was funny, wasn't it? Thank you, fuckers. Jeez. At least I have a little bit. Thank you. You're not even supposed to curse these things. Anybody underage here? I'm sorry if you are. Are you really? How old are you? You're 16? Should I watch my language? I don't know. What's the illegal age for cursing in this state? Okay, so where was I? What? Hand toasters. Oh, hand toasters. That's where we were. So it looks like a freaking toaster stacked on your wall. So why do you like to go to a small device? Everybody, write this one down because you can smell my shit. Bioscript is B-I-O-S-C-R-Y-P-T instead of IPT. It's good stuff. It's fingerprint readers. Everybody's... No, not everybody. A lot of people here probably thought it was cool to go out and buy that compact mouse with the fingerprint reader in it. So everybody wants to spend 100 bucks now because you have this computer security thing where you put your finger on it and go... and you kick it in. That sample's about 15 points off your finger, makes a map of those points, stores it in its database and pairs. My reader, because mine is more glitter, instead of sampling points on your finger, samples the swirls, sample shapes, because if you put your finger sideways or you get a cut, it deletes points, but those shapes are still there. If you cut a circle in half, you can still tell it's a circle. It just doesn't... just has a cut down the middle. So mine sample's 340 shapes off your finger. Their sample's 15 points, mine's 340. Mine's more glitter. However, you can turn down the security threshold if you have a problem. I've only ever had one problem with the reader, the Bioscript reader. And this was actually last week, and I'm still pissed still about it. I haven't thought about the problem yet. There's this lovely gentleman and there's over 500 people in this company, so screw me. And he puts his finger on. If you look at his finger real close, he has tons and tons of cracks in his finger. And because of the cracks, it's taking those cracks as shapes, because he has tons of them. They're not cuts. Like if you cut your finger, it'll still work. If you draw ink on your finger, it'll still work. He has tons of cracks from age in his finger. And it's the only time I've ever seen it work. I've solved it with 90-year-olds. I've solved it with 100-year-olds. I've solved it with... on Park Ave, I have a building where on Park Ave, New York, where they have a bathroom, another bathroom, a gym in the basement. And all these old men like to come watch the girls' exercise. And then they don't want to have to carry keys, so they walk downstairs and put their finger on it. But the older you get, your fingers start to get cracked and wrinkled. And also, you lose... In my reader, it uses conductivity of your finger instead of capacitance. So it actually uses your finger's moisture content to conduct to see if there's a finger there. The old men, fingers get so dry and so cracked they won't even read it. And it works. Yes, sir? Basically, a lot of the left and right fingers are used to be treated by the breathing of the game. Okay. What he says is a lot of these can be either... can be breathed on and, you know, into the thing and leaves a little mark on there from where the fingerprint was from the grease on your finger. And a lot of them will go, oh, look! The same mark! And open. There's also the old gummy bear trick, which everybody's heard of on the internet. You take a gummy bear and you push it against there and it reads the oils and then you can put it back on. And it looks just the same and it works. Now we'll work on my screw, you guys. We tried it really, really hard. We couldn't get it to false. What else? Biometrics. Any questions about biometrics? Face recognition. Same concept as hand recognition. It's not that intelligent stuff, which measures point to point, point to point, point to point. And measures your face. Retinal scan, I think, is cool. I don't sell any of those products. I'm hoping to bring one on soon. Retinal scan scans your retina. I'm not an optometrist, but I've looked at pictures of this stuff. First off, your finger can get cut off. If your eye gets cut off, it's going to be a little bit harder. Plus, your finger gets scraped. Your fingers get dirty. You wear gloves in winter. You don't want to take your glove off for a biometric reader. Retinal scan, you're welcome to do like this. And it reads your eye. It reads the guts of your eye, basically. I'm not an optometrist, as I said. I don't know what guts of your eye it reads the retina. But your retina is very specific to you. It doesn't really change if you die. It won't work because your pupil dilates and fucks it up the whole thing. From what I understand. But retinal scan is a very great technology because your eye doesn't get scratched. Your eye doesn't change. You always have your eye with you. You can't exactly falsificate. Falsify. That's a good word. Falsify an eyeball without cutting it out like in that James Bond movie or whatever it was. Golden, I think. What's up? Talk to me. I actually do color contacts and changing the retina. I haven't heard of it. It did not work. Somebody got really drunk and tried it. He was an optometrist who designed that. He went over to an engineer and tried it and they couldn't get it to false. I do not sell the one I wish I did. There are good ones out there. I don't know any names. First you and then you in the front or back. It's a little louder. I know nothing about that. I don't know enough about the eyes to answer that question. He asked if people with cataracts would be a problem. I do not know the answer. One second. You first. That's a damn good question. Smoking weed. Smoking weed. I don't do that. But I know what the people do. Believe me, I know. If someone was to smoke a whole shit load of weed, the pupil would dilate not to the point of being dead. If you die from weed, you're just fucking lame. Realistically, your eye will not be... your pupil should not dilate enough that that will be a problem. I have never worked with this stuff personally hands-on. I've installed one of them, I think. But I've never sold this stuff. I've never seen the tech specs on it extremely. Possible. You win one second. There's a guy up here first. I don't know who it was, but he's over there somewhere. There. Okay, he says, I know nothing about eyes. Sounds like a good idea to me. Sounds true. I believe him. Why doesn't it work on dead people? Because your eye gets fucked up when you die. You're dead. He's first. Wherever she was. You forgot your question? Come on, what's your question? You have time just to put the shit to dilate your pupils? No. Because of that shit he just told me about reading the back of the eye. That's a good question. It would have been good if you had said that. I wouldn't have known the answer. Wait, because he asked first. Yes. If you can get to it, just short the two wires on it. The box behind the reader. Okay, I'm going to give away the industry's biggest secret. Everybody write this one down. It's cool, I gave away the last kind of thing. It was like, ah, it left for half an hour. Everybody's going to look up to a door and see a keypad. It's going to say nothing. It's going to have a bunch of numbers on it. Three little LEDs on the top. And you're going to look at it and go, I wonder if I can rip this off the wall and short the two wires in the back. So you can take your little screwdriver and unscrew it off the single gang box and look in the back. There's a relay there. Short those wires and you're opening the door. I'd say about 80% of the locksmiths out there. Nothing gets locksmiths. I was a locksmith for a lot of years. I have great respect. But a lot of them, not a lot, not all, do not know much about electronics. And they don't know that having a relay on the back is insecure. So if you unscrew off the wall and you short those two wires, you can get into like 80% of the doors out there with that kind of keypad. Ah, two guys didn't laugh. Everybody else did at the other con. I'll screw you, yes. Yes, right over there. Ah, you're next. And then you. Yes. What about iris scan? I don't know anything about it. I can't answer that question. Probably the same concept, yeah. Probably the same concept as retinal scan. I don't know enough about eyeballs. I got one here. I got one here. That's about all I know. You, and did I miss anybody? I missed somebody over here. One second. Yes, you. Mechanical locks? Okay, sure. Oh, the simplex push button locks. Ah. In the simplex push button lock, we'll get back to electronics in biometrics in one second. Simplex push button locks. There's a whole bunch of little wheels inside and there's a cut in it. Excuse me. Every time you push the button, any button, all the wheels turn one time. Depending on which button you push, that wheel turns two times. So what you do is you go in there and you hit a button. You push the number one, number one turns two clicks, all the other wheels turn one click. Push number three, number one turns one click, number three turns two clicks, and all the other ones turn one click. Now by doing that, it's simply turning them all until all the slots line up. Once the slots line up, you turn the handle, the bar goes in. If you don't go in, the little piece of the inside goes up and it doesn't unlock the door. If the bar goes in, the little piece of the inside goes down, it unlocks. Very, very simple technology, very good. There's a new Ilco 5000 series coming out which has an enter button on it where you push your code and hit enter and then open the lock. Same concept, just looks sleeker. There's somebody over here, right? Talk to me. Okay. I know what he's talking about. It's really cool shit. It scares the way your brain works and the densities of your brain and the electrical shit and the woo! It's read way over my head. Talk to a neurologist about it. How am I on time, anybody? I'm fine. How am I asking you? Let's go. I don't want to go over you. Kick my ass, I know. Okay, so talk to me. Anybody else questions? There's a guy in a yellow shirt with a hand up. They put those in the Times Square? Wow. New facial recognition in Times Square. Nobody will next week. Okay, I have heard about this. This is a very big brother-esque technology. What they're doing is they're taking facial recognition once. You know a lot about this? You know something about it? Come on up. We love her. Everybody clap! We have a mic. It's actually anybody who wants to do research on this. They actually are already using this in London. So if you want to go to London, at the entrances, all the entrances to London, they have face recognition that checks every single face that comes into London. If you're a criminal, it automatically sets an alarm that goes off and lets them know that this person has entered the city. Like the concept behind it is is that if you're a criminal and you're in the city, okay, we can't do much about it. If you leave the city and you come back, now we know. And this is the same thing that they're putting into Times Square. Act your soul. Sunglasses in that kind of shit don't affect face recognition very much. You're bringing your hand the whole lot, so I'm going to ask, yeah, what do you want? Okay. That's cool. Let me get that off the microphone because you can't hear one second for you. Am I on time? Yes. In London. In London, talking about that system, you can get past it and there's already a system in New York to get past it. It's some routing software that will route you through New York City. It'll tell you where you can go where there are no cameras. It'll be a great system. Of course, going to Times Square, you can't. Or if you're one more second, I'm sorry, if you're really cool, you go out and you find off the internet, I know somebody who has them. Are you going to Kevin Mitnick Mask? Can you stick it in your face? And then you're really cool. All kinds of fucked. Okay, yes, because you're waving your hand like crazy, what's up? Sunglasses are a fake beard, a fake mustache, a big hat and weird ears and yes, you will get past it on you. If you just put sunglasses in a fake beard on, then they have shitty software. Then they have shitty software, tell them to write some better. I think one of the things that I heard when I was researching about the London is that if you're able to change your face or cover more than 35 to 50% of your face, then it's much more difficult for them to recognize who you are. People had on a big hat that covers enough of their face with their eyes and then they put on a mustache and they can't get enough points on your face. But then you also really look like you're trying to hide. By the way, before he walks away, everybody clap for the DEF CON goons, they're doing a great job. I love you. I love you. Nobody here ever gets my card. She's getting one. Thank you. Wait, wait, sit down, no hugs. No, no, yes, guy in the middle. And then you. Then you, then you. Blunt trauma to the face. If you're willing to smack yourself in the face with a hammer to get around this, screw you. Come on. You're worth it. You, then you. Yes, you. Who makes the random ass brain scanning? Random ass brain scanning. I have no idea whatsoever. There was a guy over there who was talking about it. Do you know the name of the random ass brain scanning? No, but I saw it on TLC. TLC, the learning channel makes it. The learning channel makes everything. Guy in the front. Cool guy along here. They're using facial recognition in the casinos. Facial recognition in the casinos? Yeah. No going to casinos anymore in Las Vegas forever and ever according to him. Guy over there who had his hand up. Yeah. False positive and false negatives are really a big problem according to him and him and him and him and him and him and him. I don't know very much about facial recognition. False positive and negative rate. Good though. Who are we up to? Yes, do it over there. We're running out of time so real fast. Measuring this between your eyes is a very common technology. However, a lot of people confess because of that. They say it's impossible no one's exact. Fuck you. It happens. Anybody else? How long in time? No camera dude, you're in charge. How long in time? Three minutes. Cool. Everybody start counting. Who else you got? Everybody's walking out. Don't leave me early. I miss you. Guy over there with the beard. Can you use a gel coating on your finger to defeat the thumbprint reader? Some. Yes, the gummy bear trick. I mentioned that before. The gummy bear trick works on some readers. Not on mine. We tried it. We tried it. We tried it more. I know one way that there's some guy out of I think it was out of Germany. It uses a circuit board printer to print the traces. I can trace the fingerprint exactly. I heard that works but I'm not sure. Guide it back, then guide it aside. Guide it back. The way that works is generally that all they do is they check it and then they output a signal. So what they do is the facial recognition will be all on board and then if it says okay it'll output a weekend signal or output an ABA signal. Same with my biometric reader reads the finger, checks it against its own internal database and then outputs the weekend signal. The whole database is something I don't know about. I'm assuming it's all irises. It's all computer algorithms actually. I really don't know too much about I think the guy in the yellow shirt was next. Tricking my fingerprint reader hitting with a hammer and knocking off the wall is the way to do a denial of surface attack. Otherwise you go in the back room and you short the two wires on the control panel in the locked room behind the armed guard. My fingerprint reader is pretty good. It's rated number one in the U.S. I think the Google World not my short so I can't say it. It's a damn good reader. I don't sell to this area so nobody here is going to make any money but I'm being honest, it's a damn good reader. I only sell New York, New Jersey. So if anybody here wants to buy it there, come on over. Is there any good way to fake out the solenoid? By solenoid you mean electric lock or mag lock or any other device like that, I understand. Yeah, you take a pokey wire and a pokey wire and you stick it over the top of the door and you go really closely where you pop the drop ceiling style. If you have a drop ceiling you go up on the ladder and you pop the tile and you reach down and you go, that works too. Regularly I've heard that if you pump like 476 megahertz into like 500 watts it'll fuck up some of that stuff real bad. I'm not sure about the details of it. Go over there. Yes. According to a fire code when you have a mag lock on the door you have to have a request exit device. Actually it doesn't request exit device such as a push button and a motion detector. What she's saying, I'm out of time. Real quick, a motion detector what you do is you walk up the door and the motion detector sees you and lets you out. Or you hit the button and that lets you out. In case the motion detector doesn't work, we're out of time. Have a lovely evening everybody. Welcome to Defcon.