 This week's episode is sponsored by Change. Change is an online mentoring program that teaches people with no experience how to create a real profitable online business and e-commerce. I have been working with Ryan at Change for a few years now and attended many events and got to meet the amazing community of like-minded people. These guys are the best of the best. The support these guys offer is personal, no bots or employees. There's no experience needed but like anything in life it takes time as it's a real business with real results. For more information go check out Ryan on Instagram at RyanGybe and he will guide you through the steps to help build a successful business. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I'm Boomer on and today's guest we've got Neil Cummins. How are you brother? Good mate, how are you? Yeah really well thank you. So our scouser grew up in Liverpool, ended up in Australia, ended up one of the most wanted men in Australia. It's a typical scouser if I'm honest. Always fucking causing trouble somewhere. How are you mate? Good mate, good, good. That's why my dad tried to get rid of me from the fucking Liverpool so I wouldn't be the same today. Yeah I just think it's in your DNA mate, it's no secret I love these scousers because they're mad bastards but there's some out of trouble makers in there. No matter where they go there's always trouble. Like I just said earlier you were born in Liverpool, went to Australia, became most wanted man, involved in a lot of bad shit. You were a bodyguard, you were a debt collector and like I said earlier you were one of the most wanted. So fascinating story but before we get into everything brother, I always like to go back to the start of my guests, get a bit of understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. Yeah that's cool. So I grew up in Liverpool in a place called Gaston and Allerton. It was kind of like a, it wasn't a rich area but like it was very common area for Liverpool, like it was all the tours where all the docs would come down and do all the stuff but for the back in the days and all like that but my family were more well off than my mates and I was ashamed of that to tell you the truth because I could see what my mummies were living in, they were living in like a four house semi-detached with like three bedrooms and my house was a fucking detached house in Heighton in Robie and not only two people used to come to my house who I trusted because they would never like say anything to my mates back in school. So it's a weird situation because I used to tell everyone I lived in Allerton Gaston and hang around there after school but I actually lived in Heighton because as I said I was ashamed of it. So I grew up, yeah I didn't tell my mother and father that you know I used to rob cars and go around with a few drug dealers and all like that and go around to start fights with other gangs from other fucking places in Liverpool but to them I was just a goody two shoes but when I was with my mates I was a fucking, I was a rat bag you know what I mean? So I grew up all right, I was into football a lot that was my main thing to do, didn't work out, didn't pan out, you know I was on the Pools book for a while, went down to Bristol for a bit, didn't pan out, that's what happened in the end I came over this way and tried to make it here but it didn't happen you know what I mean? So yeah that's it. How did you end up over in Australia? So what happened was my mother and father separated and you know she remarried and he wanted to always go over my stepfather to Australia because he had relatives over there, I didn't, I really didn't get on with him, I really didn't like him and I wanted to stay but my dad didn't want me to stay because he could see the people I was hanging around, he just thought I was going to end up in jail you know straight away you know like all my mates were pro boxers or amateur boxers, boxing for England and you know we used to go around and terrorize like I was turning up at nightclubs at 14 years old you know what I mean? Like my dad had nightclubs and I was turning up on his front door and I was telling the door and I'm walking in, what are you going to do? You're not going to stop me, you know my dad owns the fucking venue you know what I mean? So that was the thing but as I said going back to where I left to go to Australia is probably the best of life you know back then in 1992 you know Liverpool was fucking a pretty shit place to be and it still is tell you the truth like I've been back so many times and I don't want to say that I fucking my mates still sit in the same part of the pub fucking now fucking 32 years later you know what I mean? They haven't moved you know I just feel like I go back in time every time I go back then and I've just stopped going since 2005 since my grandfather died I haven't got back. Yeah it's madder it's always in your DNA like no matter where you go you've still got that boisterous nature I was the same my dad was a bouncer in Glasgow so I was going to nightclubs at 1415, Jack a lad and just fought and knew everything and that was my downfall because I just loved the nightlife, I loved the women, I loved the music, I just loved everything about nightclubs it was just I just felt alive when I was in there I felt like I sense a freedom but obviously you mix with the wrong crowds because I was so young I hang around with older men and that was a bad thing because I seen the way they operated and it wasn't glorified but it was something about that bad man image that just they kind of took me under their wing they think they're protecting me but seeing the shit that they've done then destroys you because it's not normal it became normal life this shit I was seeing the people that I was hanging around with at a very young age did you see that as well? I've seen that with people that my dad used to fucking hang around with like my you know my godfather was Charlie Scott and he was one of the biggest heavies in fucking Liverpool you know I mean he took on the Kray twins when they tried to take over Liverpool you know what I mean I'd seen other drug dealers and you know the Smiths who were well known in there my dad would play for a football team called the Allerton and it was just all gang members on the sideline watching the football you know what I mean and you go to somewhere like a place called Toxtiv and it all kick on on a Sunday afternoon because you know one crowd would come over and someone would fucking bill and the game would be abandoned because they were fucking knocking each other out you know what I mean and I always looked at people I used to look up to my uncle on my mum's side Kevin because he was a fucking hard cunt and I used to love hanging around with him because everyone feared it and it was a great feeling you know when you were like 12 to 14 years old having an uncle who everyone feared when they turned up it's not that I wanted to be well I did want to be like a guy I guess but I just tried to um I idolized him in a way where it was a fear factor every time he walked through a door and it was great where I didn't have that you know I mean as a kid you know I wasn't really a bully I wasn't nothing like I could I could throw him but I wasn't uh go around looking for trouble you know I mean like my other mates who were boxers they went around looking for trouble and they could knock it you know what I mean and it was only till I was 14 maybe 15 probably 15 when I started going around and not giving a shit and and having to go with people and then yeah but that's that was for me back home you know what I mean I just watched everyone kick ass yeah what did you do the first time you went to Australia I actually um I was playing football I was playing football over I played it for about maybe till I was 25 I got a knee injury and I broke my ankle on the same tackle and then I decided after that I'm just going to give it up um I went to a place called fucking Wollongong which was like a fucking country practice you know what I mean the place was fucking 10 years behind everyone and um it's funny in a way because no one back then in 92 liked English people you know I mean I came there and I wasn't it took me about fucking four months to be liked by anybody you know even in my football team that I had no one to the fucking talk to me you know what I mean I didn't get why I was called the fucking fuck off your pommy can fuck off this you know I mean I didn't have a clue what they were talking about and I had gotten to so many fucking fights on the on the football field but because I just didn't realize why why they fucking hated me so much you know what I mean I thought it was not Scouse accident I didn't really I didn't know what it was but um yeah I didn't like it and as I said um I went back to boxing um when I was about 25 26 got on the gear a bit um and yeah the rest was just fucking history you know what I mean I just want to be a doorman I couldn't be I actually want to be a DJ when I was like when I used to go to my dad's clubs but when I got onto the gear and went back to boxing I just wanted to be a doorman that's all I wanted to be see when you say you were on the gear you were on the juice but you says when you started taking the juice it actually made you a kamma yeah a lot kamma it made me I only get aggro when I'm not on it that's how I used to find it I think it's because you see that um when I was on it I was calm you could see your body developing you could see you know you're you're fucking strong you look good when you come off it you're you're going to down it and you just feel like you know you can see that you know it's when you go to the gym you're not it's not happening what what usually happens when you go to the gym you know what I mean like you you don't get that pump you don't you like I train twice a day you know what I mean and I still have for the past 15 years and when I get that pump I feel great when I'm off the gear I don't go to the gym man I'm the crankiest fuck in the world because I just I hate it I like to feel like a you know when I go there mad pump yeah put on size and you can I know it's cheating but the thing is I can get to that my goal within fucking six weeks instead of six months you know what I mean so that was always my I was always anti drugs don't get me wrong when I lived in England but this guy introduced me to it this one guy and fucking it was the I've got the same as the best thing he ever did to me because it really changed my whole life I what I give me confidence you know what I mean my confidence was skyrocket when I got on the gear what sort of stuff were you taking anything to get my hands on bro like it's what I'm saying I was I was fucking like when I say I was taking gear I was like going through probably 20 mils a week and probably a hundred down about tablets oral tablets a fucking week too I was popping probably 20 a day and then I fucking take five mils in one day and the next day I take three the next day I take five I was fucking I was abusing it like I mean abusing it because I could see what was doing but you know it was one days I come home from the gym and I didn't feel that pump and then I put another fucking three mils into me when I don't need to put five in maybe two hours before that you know I mean I was I did I abused it but you know a few things happened and you know where I started to realize I've got to calm down on it because my health went a little bit skyrocketed I started to get that you know when you you look in the mirror and you don't see the person that you think you are you know I mean I looked in there and I just went fuck I look skinny I don't look and feel good um yeah I didn't I came off it for about a year um and that was the worst year of my life probably because um I was on the downer probably every day I just didn't want to take it because I tried to clean myself up and when the doctor tells you you know you're you're spitting up blood and you're coughing up blood um you take a back seat on it you know what I mean yeah especially when it starts affecting your health yeah it affected it affected me a bit but the thing is my problem with me is bro I I I just think fuck it I'll get better you know I mean I always thought I was to this day I always think I'll get better you know I mean it doesn't matter I don't need to go see a doctor I'll cough up blood for maybe two weeks and it'll go away that was my always my that was me all the time what was it like being a bouncer um bouncer I actually enjoyed um it was good times you know um it was I never wanted to be it for too long but the the clubs that I did um you know I did you know I don't know if you beat Australia I was I was down at Dallin Harbour I done that for two years it's different scene to England um you know it's it's very more professional than what it is in England England's very rough you know what I mean you get back when I will back when I was what my dad had the clubs and I seen the dormant that they were all boxes or xx military or something like that where they just come out the army and they wanted to do a bit of doorway you know I mean that they and dormant would take on dormant from other venues it didn't happen over here man it didn't there was none of that bullshit over here it was just very professional um you know I had I was in charge of the drug runs so I was on the cover at one of these nightclubs and I would just go around trying to find who was the main runners um you know against triads um against you know um middle eastern groups um who were bringing in the the drugs to the fucking one of the biggest nightclubs in Sydney you know what I mean that it was I loved that for two years I did that and it was a fucking great job just going in undercover watching them bring them in in fucking in cigarette packets and they're all in fucking cigarettes you know uh going outside to the cars and they're fucking got fucking thousands in their cars you know what I mean it's it was massive but I used to crush them in front of the you know I mean when I found all the drugs I'd make them cry I used to have this uh it was called the magic garden outside this club and we used to make them fucking crush it didn't matter if they had 100 200 500 pills I made them crush them and just to make them cry and then they go back to the fucking dealer with no fucking cash in the fucking pocket here's the gear's expensive over there you're talking 300 400 quid for the yeah yeah so did you see the prices the difference from UK to Australia but back but back but back then it was more pills though bro everyone was into the pills back then yeah how much was that a pill hill back then was uh well you're looking at 50 55 pound 55 dollars yeah we started what you're getting for about 10 quid back in your day here oh no but you're not thinking that were you not were you not have that street mentality though of getting your own gear and making a bit of dough over there oh no I was I was I was never one of them to make any deals I wasn't that I was a third party I tell you where they are but me I'm not into that shit I won't sell I'm not a seller never why is that it was never in me it was never in me I to to be a seller to be a drug dealer I didn't want to be that you know in the past because I've known so many yeah I was put on intel as one of the main drug distributors in Sydney but I was never a dealer I just that was not in me to deal I just I was against it they can all do that there's no way in the world I was going to go to jail being a drug dealer no fucking chance in hell it's mad because in the 90s with the bouncers they used to just kick fuck out of people sometimes they used to beat the wrong person no and they were straight down with shooters the next night or swords was there any that sort of stuff in Australia was it more cam more cam very cam that's what I said I've seen that back in Liverpool and back here there's none of that shit none at all what's what it's all it's all it's all bikeies over here bro it's bikeies middle eastern groups and triads you know there's a bit of russians back in the early 2000s but that's it man there's no there's no like what you see in England what about the triads how they get a patch over there they don't go around making too much noise they never did you know what I mean and I got on with well with a lot of triads I let them do their business as long as they didn't cause any trouble I don't want fucking you know what I mean and it's good to have them on your side it's but over here at the moment as I said it's the bikey wars that's the biggest thing over here at the moment and I've been looking and I've been looking now it's it's developing overseas you know and I remember telling my dad about I was working for someone and he found out you know the Abraham's had links to bikey clubs and he haven't got a clue what a bikey was you know what I mean I was back in what 2004 he didn't have a fucking clue what bikeies were and it's it's still hard to talk to someone back home and say you know what's a fucking bikey Neil well you know what I mean I know it's getting quite big over there at the moment because I've seen a Marbella you know what I mean there's a big group in Barbella now but um as I said the bikey wars over here is is pretty big and a lot of them now the big guns from the the bikey groups and the gangs I've moved over to Cyprus and moved over to Greece and all like that and the controlling it from over there in Dubai and everything like that now you know what I mean but the apparent but a lot of them have been caught yeah the bikey groups over there I think you've got the Hell's Angels and stuff here you've got the Hell's Angels you got the Commicheros you got the Thinks the Rebels you've got the Nomads so yeah you've got the Bandidos you know what I mean so they're your main ones over here at the moment yeah but the bikers don't fuck about anyway either same as the Triads they're all even the UK they're always under the radar you'll never see many of them in prison either here yeah the Triads always keep themself through self make their money yeah well that's because they're very good yeah you get into a casino and it's just all the boys fucking spending fortunes that's the love gambling love gambling absolutely love it did you ever think about being a biker yourself I've been offered numerous times probably the only time I came close to that was probably back in I'd say 2005 and I was hanging around with a lot of Commicheros before I started working for John and that was the closest probably I've got to being one you know because I was affiliated I went everywhere with the national president you know and then it just came to a point where I just went that I don't I don't want to be controlled you know I mean and that's what most of them are you know they're controlled you've got to go to the national president or the president of the club or whoever's in charge to do anything that you want to do you know I mean I don't want that I want to have the freedom to say I can go left I can go right you know I mean and that's that was the whole reason why I never joined so life's going good then you're full of steroids you're looking great you're making a bit of money no trouble but you ended up involved with us John Abraham who they say is one of the biggest families under world he's always denied that I don't think he's got any convictions is that correct that's very correct yeah but it's it's not that like it's his family you've got to understand that like you know his brother Sam was affiliated in the national president former national president of the nomads bikey group you know so that was that's something that you got to look at why the Abraham had a kind of a bad name you know what I mean because of that affiliation John very business-minded very business-minded but as I said when your when your brother's there one of the national presidents of one of the biggest bikey groups and you know they're at war with some bikies at the time well that's what happens in the suppose I mean but when I met Sam for the first time I wasn't working for John that was in Kings Cross too and I was I was looking after a nightclub called Soho and you know I knocked out two of his boys one week and they came down about 40 of them came down to find out who the fucker was who fucking knocked his two boys out and you know as I said I stood my ground because it was my venue you know I mean I didn't this was the first time I've been confronted by bikies you know I mean and I wasn't gonna back down because I wasn't in the wrong I didn't think I was and I didn't give a fuck because that was my attitude when I was a doorman I don't give a fuck this whoever wants to take me on is gonna take me on but they came down I sorted it out I told them the situation and we shook hands and you just told me you know this is his patch that was it that was the first time I met him what was he like because in your interviews before you say he's only five feet eight you would think John's about John's about five foot eight nine um that was your first meeting with him my first meeting with John was when I I started on one of his nightclubs um and actually I'd only seen from a distance what he actually looked like and I remember standing outside his club called DCMs and everyone said oh John's on his way he's coming down the street now he's just stopped off at one of his clubs up the top of the road and he'd be down in about two minutes and then you see you hear the Range Rover coming down the road and then everyone's just yeah it's just like one minute everyone's talking next minute everyone's just fucking gone quiet and then I say what what's going on and he goes John's coming and then the Range Rover pulls up and you know the car loads about four or five people grow up the car because I've kind of not ever seen him face to face value I looked at his other bodyguard Tongan Sam and I thought like this must be him man fucking the size of this can't and he had presence about him but it was fucking the smallest guy in the fucking group who was the who was the main man so I as I said when when he came and he shook hands with everybody I'm just looking at Tongan Sam going what the fuck like this guy was like six foot five and I'm going fuck he's wearing a brown black black leather fucking jacket all the way leather jacket all the way down to his fucking knees and he looks fucking like somebody who you don't fuck with and then as John came towards me not knowing it was John I just yeah put my hand out to him to shake his hand and yeah like that and then he fucking stopped him from me and just goes that all you fucking got and I just went what the fuck are you talking about and then he just goes I'm John John Abraham this is my club I felt like you know what I felt like that fucking big bro you know what I mean like the main man I was because Tongan Sam was next to him he's a bodyguard so I was ready for that handshake you know what I mean and then it fucking it was yeah what a fucking way to meet somebody that you're going to work for 15 years so how do you become a bouncer to then become in his bodyguard and very close with him did you have to take steps to build trust or was it an instant thing no no no it was it was trusting you know I he put me in charge of all his nightclubs head of security so whatever I was you know I was on the front door it was my decisions for everything sometimes I feel like sometimes he put me in situations to see how I deal with them you know what I mean like his main club was DCMs and that was the club that I looked after for a long time and the the amounts of situations we came across at that club like drive-by shootings, bikeies trying to get in you know I think I've been through everything at that club and when that club closed down he actually messaged me and said you know it's closing down what do you want to do after this and I just said listen I just want to be by your side now and he just said done that's what I want you to do but prior to that I was already slowly coming by his side you know now and again he messaged me are you in the cross tonight yes I am and you know he'd say well come and look after me I'm gonna be at this venue you know while I was at DCMs there's King's Cross it's probably about maybe a K each side of the so you go from one end to King's Cross fountain to the end where the Coca-Cola sign is if everyone's ever been to Sydney it's about a K and he made me go there every night from Monday to Thursday to look after it and I felt that was a kind of a test to make sure like you know you tell me no one's allowed in any of my venues unless the the withers any any bikes who shouldn't be in the King's Cross tell them to get out otherwise if they're all right they can stay but you know it was always I think a test to see if I could become who I became and I think I did a good job you know I mean I didn't back down from anybody you know there's a lot of even his own brother has gone to kind of he didn't put the gun to my head but he went back to shoot me because I didn't let him into a club you know I mean he told me to say to Sam and his boys they can't come into one of his nightclubs so I stood up to Sam and when I stood up to him and said mate you can't come in tonight you got to tell your boys to go somewhere else John doesn't want you in here um he went back to a club picked up a gun came to shoot me you know what I mean and you know because he said watch this I'll come back now I'm gonna fucking shoot you and I stood my ground I didn't move you know what I mean that and at the end of the day I was John's boy and if he tells me what to do I'm gonna fucking do it so that there were situations I was putting that was pretty scary why did he not want his brother because when you have about fucking 20 bikies in there and they're all in colors or they're all fucking bit rowdy then you're gonna lose fucking customers from your nightclubs and as I said John's a businessman you know what I mean and can you imagine like being an 18 year old kid and you're new to the scene and you're new to fucking coming out to nightclub and you see all these fucking bikies come in there and they don't care like they're gonna come into the club and they don't back down they don't give a they don't even realize some of them that this is John's club this is this you know you got to behave they just drink on get on whatever they're fucking taking and run a muck and you know I've got to pick up the pieces or the dormant have to pick up the piece some of the dormant wouldn't was so scared to even say anything to them they would just let them do what they had to do you know what I mean and that's where I step in or someone else had to step in to say listen boys you can't do this because there was too scared to do it so that's why he didn't want them in any of his venues because he didn't need the fucking headache plus the coppers were always on his case too was John's life ever in danger was always on the lookout is that why you had bodyguards yeah there was always there was always a hit they like it you know they'd be always you know a hit gonna be put on them you know sometimes it's it's not happened but you know they've been kind of yeah the hundred crowds and the hitter here I think that was in 2009 but when you've got as I said it comes back to his brother who's a who's who's a big bikey boss back when then his clubs were fucking like what 18 nightclubs he had all in his prime and so the way to get to someone who's in a bikey club is to get to John or the venues you know what I mean you can't get to them it's a bit hard so what do you do you shoot down the club you know what I mean to make a presence sound that's how it always was there because you've had a few hits out in your life were you not carrying your daughter and somebody came with a gun yeah that was that was when that was back when the bikey walls were on back in 2000 and I think it was 7 and I was just it was about 8 o'clock 8 30 at night and I went to a place near Bondi beach to go to shops and my daughter was she was young at the time and I had her in a baby satchel which looks like you know it's like a long band back you know what I mean and she was inside there and walking around and then there was there was three fucking rival bikies who spotted me and they just walked out the gym the local gym and I seen them I didn't panic I just kept walking kept doing my thing and they followed me to the car park and as I got to the bottom of the ramp with a car park and there's no more cameras left they went to pull a gun on me and fucking shoot me but as I went to do it I kind of I stopped them straight away as soon as I seen the gun come out say you know what I mean I've got I'm carrying a baby like that and then one of them pulled the gun away and then threatened to say well you know you have it next time you haven't got it this is what's gonna fucking happen to you so that's the that was pretty lucky do you have a question that and think what what's the purpose of you doing everything you're doing there especially when it comes to your family being in danger uh now I do bro now now I would but back then there was there was no fear fact that I didn't I was there to do a job I was I was there all I had was who I am and what I had to do and you know I mean yeah it it shook me a bit but then I switched back on to being who I was you know what I mean because uh it's hard to it's not that I didn't worry about you know that happening again but the fact is that there's a code over here that you know I know that code's been broken in the past couple of years but where you don't shoot anyone who's with their family you don't bring family into it you know if you want them deal with it with them by themselves but you know I actually thought they would have known that was a fucking baby in my I'm carrying a baby but they fucking didn't you know what I mean but um as I said it didn't put me off it never did the only time I've ever I'll put myself off is when I put my own when I put a hit on myself that's the only time I've really been on a low point why were you so loyal to the one man um well I was loyal to the one man because of the fact of that's that's that's what I am I'm I'm I'm fucking I'm loyal you give me a job to do and I'm loyal um he was a great person to work for you know what I mean I loved what looking after his nightclubs um you know he looked after me you know he appreciated what I did for him at the clubs I got on well with all his brothers his whole family um you know and that just grew on me and you know I got offers from other people to look to bodyguard them you know and it was bigger money and it probably would have been even better I wouldn't have to look over my back and get shot these people who were just fucking people who own nightclubs and they just wanted me to be their driver but I said no I don't want to do it I just want to be with John that's it you know what I mean and that's that's how I am I it's hard to question that one bro because I am and to this day I'm still loyal to him even though I'm not fucking working anyone says a bad name about him I fucking lose it because you know to me he was like a brother to me you know he wasn't just a boss he was a brother do you think he has some sort of power over you when you look through it all where you're loyal you're willing to die you're willing for your family to die as well putting yourself through that just to be loyal to the one man because you love them like a brother listen it's it's a noble thing it's a it's a good thing but we actually break it all down it is fucking crazy as well oh yeah it is crazy don't get me wrong like I look back now it's funny when I look back now and look at what I've done gone through in situations I do go what the fuck was I thinking you know what I mean because you I'm older now I'm more fucking wiser you know I've got two boys now so it's more like family-oriented back then I was young then um but now it's um I was just young I was just young probably and I just loyal to to him doesn't matter what it was I would knock anybody out I was stood in the front of a bullet as I said I was there for a purpose John can fight John can throw him but the thing is I was I was going to work when all them um rumors about there was going to be a drive-by or there was going to be someone's going to try and take his life yeah John would stand there didn't give a shit but the thing is I was ready for it and it was a fact in my head that I was ready to take that bullet but I mean I would take that bullet for him that's probably why I lost my mother you know I'm responsible for my mother in fucking what 15 years because of it that's mad Neil but again that's just your nature that the feel like you're a part of a family when you were with John yeah it did it was a family that I never had you know it was like that's that's it you know when I was abandoned by my own mother um not once but twice and I came and I've been in Australia without a real family yeah you know when when you turn up and you you're getting looked after even though I was I'm not saying I go around for this for dinner and all that kind of shit but the thing is it was just the fact that I felt wanted you know what I mean and that's what I and that's probably why I was so loyal to him because you know I felt wanted and he made me feel wanted you know what I mean and he made I felt I felt good there was a lot of power in what I had you know I could walk around anywhere in Sydney even go up to fucking Queensland and everyone knew who the fuck I was I'm not to fuck with me you know what I mean because of that power system that I had you know there's a lot of yeah it's it's it's a weird feeling a very weird feeling when you when you're in that kind of circle yeah sense of sense like you said sense of power but having that I don't know if that's abandonment or whatever but just have that then family unit that you've always wanted a bit of power somebody who wants you not having that stability with your mum then we crave it externally for me it was drinking drugs and all the other stuff that felt like a family to me Hank doing the wrong stuff because I didn't want to upset the people around me because I didn't want them to leave me either if you kind of get what I mean like yeah yeah yeah it's to feel wanted it's such a good thing is but it can't be for the wrong reasons as well which is mad how many hits did you have out in your life new I would have said probably a bit about maybe well the other one drive by that was a hit on me then I then I went back to it then I was followed home and I had the fucking hit on me during the week so I'd say about two or three it's so scary out did you how are you how's your paranoia now oh no there's no paranoia now well since I've left you know I don't have to watch my back people people now who I was fucking back then and enemies with I can talk to now and they've come up to me and said Neil there was no don't take it personally it was never just a personal thing on you but the thing is you have to look at who you're working for you know what I mean we have to sometimes we have to take out the main person who looks after that main person that we want to get to give out a sign that you know what I mean so I get that you know what I mean but no I can talk to everybody now you know what I mean I don't have any problems anymore you know what I mean this it's it's just a weird how I could walk away and people were yeah asking me to join up their gangs which I wasn't going to do but they were also shaking my hand you know what I mean and and just saying listen you you were loyal as fuck we understand that but you have to understand why we did what we did so that's how it was why do you think these people in big families making some serious dough never actually leave why not just make your money and fuck off because it's a power thing it's just like back in England I see all the same families and they just keep going keep going and it's like they have kids grandkids and it just keeps going up building up they just do it it's a power they'll always stay there it's power and greed power and greed because I haven't viewed so many people from that life and nobody ever gets out ever without actually sitting on the beach smoking the big cigar made done millions and actually enjoy life it's either the stress of the then their family the stress they've put on their grandkids because the grandkids then want to live up to their reputation it just becomes a vicious cycle until one family gets took out and then another one steps in there's nobody I know and that life has actually made it out and done okay they've actually done well from it who've maybe escaped prison escaped all the hits they either get took out of prison there's not many there's probably one man in Glasgow that probably has but out of thousands thousands and the percentage of actually doing well from that life is zero percent basically but I always see people who who ever lose a family member from being shot and you think maybe this is it now this is they're gonna stop now and it doesn't happen then you get someone who goes in from fucking jail and you think this is gonna stop this is gonna stop the family but it doesn't do it they just want they have a what happens is that one of the family members maybe the son gets shot and they want retaliation and then it fucking builds up more more more you know what I mean so it never ever stops they mourn over it like it's funny I've lost so many friends and enemies who were friends over the last five years who've been fucking assassinated over here and you think this has got to end now and it doesn't it just gets worse and worse worse what's the sentences over there for mother oh you don't get life but that way you don't get that they're out with him fucking sometimes for murder maybe fucking tops they're out within 10 years 15 years there's no there's no fucking thing over it so some of them get away with it because it's all they fiddle it away to another way or there's no they pay off somebody it's there's not one I know one someone's in there for 20 years that's it it's the the the system over is fucked up yeah for any cold-blooded cold-blooded mothers here you're talking 25 30 35 now yeah and it's worse over there I wish people would see how bad it is over there compared to here like this is like yeah it's getting bad over here but like growing up and I still know how it is and I still get people telling me how bad there is and I still watch the news to see how bad it is it is fucked up over there you know what I mean like kids as I said like one of my mates I we spoke to in Liverpool not long ago and he says you know there's kids of nine years old 10 years old going in with fucking weapons into the schools you know what I mean that's unheard of here unheard of yeah it's getting it's getting that way it is slowly you can see it's getting that way but not it's that's been happening over in Liverpool or England for fucking years do you think it's happening that way because so many of the British are moving to Australia or do you think that's not nothing to do with it no there are a few over there I got they'll go coming over here but no it's not it's it's the Middle Eastern groups that it's that's that's where it's starting over over here you know what I mean but they but one minute they're all friends next minute they're against each other and as I said it all this comes down to is greed and power they don't want to be told what to do by that certain person because why should you tell me what to fucking do you know what I mean so then they break up get another gang and then they're against each other it's it's pretty fucked up there's the Albanians over there yep yeah they're fucking everywhere they don't fuck about either you know that yourself that there's some scary bastards when they say they want you they get you yeah oh yeah but as I said I wish I wish a lot of them over here would see how fucking bad it is over there like as I said my my father was very good mates with Colin Smith and he was he was um Colin was fucking the right hand man for Curtis you know what I mean and like that was huge for me to go when I was going over to see Colin I've known Colin since I was a kid you know what I mean I know all his family and to see that and what what happened to him like my dad when he got assassinated in speaking Liverpool that night outside of gym my dad was supposed to be with him that night and so today my dad still thinks it's a it was a it was a big setup you know what I mean and it was hard for me to take because I all I had was pictures of Colin when I used to walk down the street and he'd say hello to me you know what I mean and but who he came like the one of the massive drug dealers importers for fucking the whole of the UK was huge you know what I mean and it's funny how I know this is wrong to say this but I used to look up to him and I fucking probably still do when he was a fucking drug dealer you know what I mean it's funny how I can say I look up to someone like that I don't know why I can say that it's very hard but I did I don't know maybe I'm twisted I don't know but it's a weird sense of yeah I used to my uncle used to be a dealer I looked up to him but as I said I looked up to the way he was a fucking hard cunt you know what I mean I wanted that power I really did I I I am beating and I think that's why when I came over here I didn't take shit from nobody you know what I mean for six months I was I was kind of bullied in a way where no one wants to know me and then I was you know what I'm fucking I'm from Liverpool I should be fucking doing something about this and then I did I just turned and I fucking remember the first fight I went into I walked into fucking a changing room into someone's after a football game and I went in and I just fucking landed a punch on this fucking guy's face and said don't wear the fucking say that to me ever again you know what I mean and then it just started from there I erupted I just went you know what I went on rampage every fucking weekend what was your dad saying he's thinking you're in Australia going to live a good life have barbecues buy a soft board but yet you're getting hips over in fucking Australia now for you doing probably safest day in Liverpool I kept it from my dad for years what I did and not that I was ashamed it was just a fact of and yeah yeah because he you know he told me I was coming over here to get away from that shit and then because my mother I was by myself at the time when I was working when he found out he found out of somebody some some heavy reckons was living over here and apparently found out that I was bodyguarding John got back to my dad and I remember the phone call it was on a Thursday night in Bosd and Kings Cross and it was about fucking after midnight and this fucking private number kept ringing me and ringing me ringing me and I thought fuck who's this and I rang it I was my fucking dad and he goes what are you doing and I said just walking around and he just said to me you working for some fucking someone called John Abraham and I said yeah yeah how do you know and he just goes because I fucking being told what's this fucking bike he's shit and he just I said I tried to explain everything and tried to get off the phone to him and then he just goes you know what if you want me to I'll bring some fucking heavies over there and I'll show you the fucking gangsters that he says fucking get out of it will you and I when he'd done that we stopped talking that was the day me and my dad stopped talking and we only fucking started talking again with my grandfather dad because I just thought I'm not listening to you I don't want to listen to your shit I've already added off my fucking mother I don't need it from fucking you and I just I abandoned both that's it and I went on alone that's it can you see that they were actually trying to look out for you now though my dad my dad yes because he's been in that industry and he's seen it I can and I should have listened more to my dad but my mother no and I'll it's hard and I know anyone when I say this but a mother to turn around to her son and say once you leave that door you are dead to me you are dead I mean you are buried I thought or whatever and then when I walked out the door she says Neil you don't you walk out the door and tell me you're still looking for John you're dead to me I mean it and I said so be it and then she told all my brothers my half sisters and brothers that um if you talk to them you're off the wheel I'll wipe you off the wheel and that's how it's been ever since and I just as I said I can't forgive that I'll never forgive her for saying that to me she could have had she could have said it in different words but she didn't I did a day you have to look at it like this James if if I was bodyguard in the prime minister I could get shot that way if I'm prior if I'm looking after someone who's high-profile I could get shot just because John Abraham and his family are in the news for being underworld figures doesn't mean I'm carrying a gun you know what I mean I'm going to shoot someone I'm there to protect maybe a prime minister maybe John and that's how I tried to tell her but she wasn't having any of that and that's what that's what ended in the end so does that upset you oh deep down it upsets me because as I said I've had no fucking mother for god knows how long I've had no father we've only just started talking to me my dad again you know that was hard for me but my mother I'll never forgive her and so every day I look at my my two kids and go well they haven't got a grandmother you know I don't have a mother to speak I don't have my my half sisters and brothers to talk to you know but she didn't mind ringing me up sometimes if she needed something to deal with you know someone that put it on one of my sisters or uh she needed me to deal with something who uh because she had a business back then who owed her money I'd come down and be the heavy but all of a sudden like she wants to put in like oh you know you shouldn't be waiting for John why why are you getting shot at you know because at the time my my car was shot at and I had um I think it was about seven or eight bullets put through my car and that's why she just she asked me to come down to see her and that's how when she put it to me you know um if you're not gonna leave him then you're dead to me did John know you had gave up your mom and dad for him no no he does now because I wrote it in my book but I never told him I never told you think you've got too much pride in you yeah probably probably I have um but I just felt like it's it's really none of his John's business it's my business you know I mean that's my family I don't need to crowd him before you know my mom doesn't talk to me anymore because I work for you I feel like a fucking kid in school you know what I mean like I'm going up to the teacher you know what I mean he's picking on me no man it's just it is what it is when did that all come on talk for you because were you not sure say you do at some point yeah uh that was that was 2009 2009 just before 2000 um I think it was just everything you know as I said I didn't have no family there's a massive gang war I just had you know like that just happened with um I've been stopped by three bikies and when I had my daughter and there was just a lot of tension around everything and I just felt like I was losing friends uh friends who were once I was friends with and now because now they wanted to be a rival gang against me and I just all and plus my marriage at the time was breaking up and um I was just in a in a in a rut and I didn't know I tried to take pills to take my life that way and I couldn't do it I was thinking if it doesn't work I don't want my fucking stomach pumped um I wasn't the type to fucking slip my wrists and then I just thought you know what easiest way to do it I know a few people who fucking can do a job with a gun and I just said you know I went to this guy and without me fucking saying like too much I just turned around and said listen there's a person I need fucking dealt with um badly um I need him put away and that person was me but he didn't know that I told them where I was going to be what he looked like what he'd be wearing what time he'd be there and I was ready I remember that the whole day was going so slow that fucking day um and I kept going to the park during the day where it was gonna happen looking at the the bench where I was gonna sit and then I was ready for it I was I was actually very ready I was prepared um I was playing with my daughter all day and I remember when it was time for me to to leave um instead of taking the car when I usually take the car I said I was just gonna walk to King's Cross which well that took me maybe 40 minutes from where I used to live and um yeah I just sat in the park and I waited that's it it was the longest wait in my fucking life what happened uh um I remember hearing a few footsteps and and then all of a sudden um I I wanted to look back but I didn't and I just kept looking at the grass in front of me and then all of a sudden I got a fucking massive smack to the face and I you know I I wasn't expecting it because I was just expecting someone to shoot me and then all of a sudden I got this massive smack to the face and then I looked around and I seen it was my mate who had to do it and then he fucking hit me again in the face and he told me don't ever fucking make me do this again and he he I don't know we we stopped talking for a while we don't bring it up too much um even now when I see him but he just he said I knew there's something wrong he says because it's not like you to ask for something like this um and you know I was very wary and when I approached you look familiar Neil yeah you've got a presence about you you know what I mean you can't hide who you are and that's he said I know it was I knew it was you straight away and then that's why I fucking hit you and he says don't ever make me do that again and I broke down I remember I just I was fucking I went for a walk for about two hours he tried to try to ask me why I wanted it done you can I can talk to you talk to my mate talk to anybody by me you try and explain why you're taking your own life and you can't you know what I mean they can't understand that but you're the only person who can understand why you want to take your own life and at the time I was just in a rut and nothing was going right for me and I just didn't want to deal with the shit they just didn't want to deal with it so I was an escaped family and friends that you weren't here because there was so much pressure on your life yeah I just felt like you know I was I was bad to everybody you know like no one likes me doing what I do um you know my marriage was breaking up um would I see my daughter again who knows what I do you know none of my mates are talking to me anymore because now they all want to fucking against me and want to shoot me and want to have a fight with me because I'm working for who I am um I had people who are coppers who used to place football with me didn't want to talk to me anymore it was just like what the fuck's going on in my life and I couldn't deal with it you know what I mean and as I said everything was just on top of me on top of me and I just what easy way I can't I can't kill myself get someone else to do it how much do you think about that Daniel oh I think about a lot man I feel about that day it's funny how you you think about a lot of things now in a different aspect and yeah it comes up and it gives me it gives me goosebumps when I do think about it because I remember that that's that bench in the park just sitting there and it you know it felt like fucking ours and it was a lonely fucking white because I didn't know where how when he was going to shoot me and how he's going to shoot me and when I when he hit me like fucking hit me he fucking hit me and I just I thought this is it what are you doing you're smacking me then you're going to shoot me what are you doing you know what I mean and then I turned I turned I told myself never to turn but I had when I hit when he hit me across the face I turned and then I seen his eyes and he seen me and it was just like then he gave me another fucking hit to the face how much was that day a big realization that what you were actually going to do um it was massive after it but before it I didn't think like but after it that's why I went for my walk I tried to clear my head you know I went back I remember I remember I went for a walk pretending that I went to work and to come home and I just walked into where my daughter was asleep in her room and you know I got the privilege to see her again you know what I mean but because I didn't think I was going to see her again you know what I mean that's that's it's a it's a weird feeling when you want to take your life for it's um because you've got one side of your head saying do it and the other side saying don't do it but the other side that's saying do it always wins telling you the right telling you telling you the reasons why you should do it what happened to your leaf after that was that try to get it back in in normality or were you thinking about doing it again um I broke up with my wife then we broke up um I kind of moved in with it with a long friend a good friend who actually helped me a lot um get me back on track and it um I still as I said I stayed with John but I think it helped me getting out of that circle again getting I was I was stuck as I said with my ex-wife and there was a lot of pressure there and it was media stuff too and then when I went to live with my mate he was there for me every fucking day talking to me sometimes he'd even turn up for work he went when I was going to as I said well I used to look after Kings Cross by myself and walk around kick people out he sometimes just came and sat in his car just so he could be there in case something happened to me and that's what got me probably um from Cohen insane you know what I mean it kind of woke me up and pushed myself to be the person I am today otherwise I think I would have just I think I was just would have fucking tried to do it again see when the relationship your mum breaks down and then you're breaking up your message did you see the resemblance of what was another woman leaving um no um it was more it was different different circumstances that I left my ex so it was my mother was different you know she she was just on to me about working for John and this is not me telling me every time I turned up this is not my son who's sitting in front of me you talk differently you act differently why you always got to be this person whoever the media betray you're not that person whereas with her it was just like I just felt like I wasn't a partner I was I was just I was nobody you know what I mean and I didn't like that I was just yeah I'm the father of of our kid that's it that's all I felt there was no there was no love there so that's why I became empty because I had no one to talk to bro like when I needed someone to talk to I had no one I remember going to her one day and I said to her you know I um I'm depressed I feel fucked and she laughed at me so how are you supposed to go to someone when you fucking need help and they laugh at you you know what I mean so you end up talking to yourself and that as I said when you talk to yourself that fucking dickhead on this side wins all the time so you become more reserved and you don't want to you feel embarrassed speaking out about it in case anybody else laughed yeah I'm not gonna I'm not gonna go and tell anybody in our circle of friends with with John oh fuck you think I'll do that now I keep her in I put the image on that I need to when I go to work I keep it to myself when I leave work and I've got my own time then that's when it all fucking starts to fucking kick in want to leave here because the world does as such a beautiful place but sometimes we don't see it do you think you you then start to believe in your own height though been in the news and been in the newspapers and having that power where you then become in so much in your own bubble you don't actually know what's going out in the real world the outside world yeah because all that's just a big game it's just a big fucked up game of misery and pain there's nothing positive comes from that life even though sometimes we think this is a life there's a bit of money a bit of power everybody knows who I am but it's all bullshit when you break it down that you kind of believe your own height but who you were when not really is that a big part of your life not really want to talk because you thought this is who I am this big strong powerful man not realize you are breaking inside yeah I had to be I had to always put my persona up I always had to put my image up when I left that front door of mine my image was put on straight away if I went to if I went out with the boys you know even even old football mates I had to put on an image I couldn't be Neil who I used to be you know because I always felt my the eyes were on me all the time who I was who I worked for everyone knew who I was so I always had to put that image on every fucking day I still sometimes after you I still feel like sometimes our eyes are on me yeah I'm a bit more relaxed now but and I don't give a shit you know what I mean like I'll try and be who I am but the thing is I was always judged and I thought fuck you know what I mean I just want to be me I come on tired you know what I mean it's it's tiring you know what I mean like you're putting on this image standing there the fucking sometimes 12 hours you know maybe maybe it's two days three days in a row it's like fuck you just want to relax me sometimes my escape was the gym yeah when could you ever be yourself if you could when I was at home by myself when I was at home and there was no one there that's that was me all all with my mate as I said I lived with in Bondi I could be myself with him you know what I mean but other than that as soon as I left that front door I had to be the person who everyone knew was Johnny Bill Burger were you a debt collector as well I've done a bit of debt collecting yeah I wasn't known for that that was not the massive thing of me being known as but yeah I have done some what was that like for you easy did you have that power again big big guys what are you six feet four you see a six four yeah all right so you're a big fucking unit 18 19 stone you must have had that presence where people were just happy to give you give up with the odds yeah it was it was it was easy you know I mean because a lot of people that I when I did go debt collecting um the avenue who I was or I didn't bullshit I'd tell them who I was you know what I mean because I wasn't there to fucking mess around and fucking talk you know for age when I just wanted to know when you're going to pay if you're going to pay let me get the fuck out of you you know what I mean and yeah there's been sometimes when you know people want to kind of do a bit of a rumble but I was happy for that but as I said it's got me in trouble sometimes but it was it was an easy job put it that way I didn't like it I never I wasn't really a fan of being a debt collector what's the worst things you've seen has been a boner I would say I'd say the night that we have to drive by DCMs when I seen everyone just come out the club and they got shot and they were you know they ran out the club thinking you know running out running down to go to either get a taxi and as they run out you just see the the limb body just get shot and they're put on the floor that that's always stuck in my head and I was I was I remember because I was putting the ballards away and it all happened and it just everything happened in slow motion and and to this day I can just remember my hand was on the ballard and I'm just looking and I just see people just getting shot and the the sound of the bullets just hitting the the glass why do you think you're still alive today come as a lucky bastard you're fucking hard to have been making so many shootings mate you know what sometimes I look back and I go you know okay I have been lucky don't get me wrong I've been lucky but a lot of people I showed a lot of respect to you know what I mean I didn't go around trying to be somebody that I wasn't you know I mean I I was respectful and I gave respect back if you give me respect to um yeah I was firm but I was supposed to be but I didn't go around trying to be a wannabe I didn't try and be a hard cunt I just said bro this is why it is if you're fucking with me this is what's gonna happen you know what I mean and that's how it always was and I'd shake your hand after it you know what I mean I didn't go looking for fights I'd finish them you know what I mean someone to start them I finish it simple as that so how did a kid from Liverpool go into Australia for a better life then become Australia's most wanted all over the news all over the newspapers um that was just a a declicting job that which went fucking totally wrong um the guy the guy owned 500k I got off of the job um I didn't I didn't take it on to do any rough shit I just said if you've got the paperwork I'll do it I was already out the scene and um but I knew the guy and he told me his father and his father's business partner we're gonna lose everything if this fellow wasn't found because he's a con artist and I just said if you've got paperwork I'll find him and I'll see what I can do for you um so they got all the paperwork down they they done some homework for me they found out he was in a place doing a conference um down in Coffs Harbour and I said all right um let's go down I'll see what he's got to say so I went down and straight away you know when I introduced myself I just you know I said listen mate um I've come to see what's going on with this apparently you owe this person money straight away he lied to me twice so I knew he was already bullshit because I had the paperwork in front of me what he signed and everything that he's done with these people so he kept telling me no um I don't know who you're talking about I've never heard them before so on the third time I said mate listen I'm gonna say this once to you I said if you bullshit me here we're gonna have a different kind of situation happening here I said because I've got all the paperwork and I put it all from I said I've got all the paperwork right here in front of me bro I said so let's ask you again do you know who these people are straight away his face changed and he says yes I do he says but can we talk later so we talk late we he went back into the conference I waited around now the guy who I was with who drove me up there was was the son of the father who and the business partner who owed the money you know he wanted the money back so when the guy came out I'm standing there and I'm talking to him everything was going sweet mate when we can come up to an arrangement uh this and that I'm just out of conference I said yeah no worries I said but can you just do me a favor I said just show me that I've seen you and can you just go to the ATM and show me that you know yeah a balance of your bank account you know what I mean just so I can go back to the people and just show them he was happy to go that yeah no no worries mate I'll go and do that for you so I didn't know that the guy who was with me went to the fucking bank uh to the ATM with him and got and told him to take money out without me fucking knowing now he's put it on him asked him to take money out now when he when he tells you when he when I finally found out off the cop was how much he took it was I think it was about 800 dollars which is I don't know about 400 pound back home like this is something like that 400 pound yeah I didn't know a fucking thing about it right so when I when I've when the cop has come looking for me and all this is finished apparently this guy went to the cop as soon as he finished because he didn't tell me that um my mates who drove me there put it on him he didn't tell me nothing he just said um showed me the thing and I went right mate and I was I was happy you know what I mean and the guy the guy didn't tell me on the way home when we were driving on they put it on it was only when like the coppers came looking for me and he apparently they got him and arrested him and they came to look for me so I handed myself in that they said um oh yeah your mate took money off him I said well it's news to me because I don't fucking know about anything how much did he take off him he talked about 800 dollars off him but he gave him 50 dollars back I said what did he give him 50 dollars back for he said so he could get petrol I said well put I wouldn't doesn't sound like I'd do that I said mate I've got a book out I'm doing all this do I really look like I need fucking 800 dollars I said so I got it they were happy with my statement and um I left the police station went home four and a half years went past I had nothing and then all of a sudden the Daily Telegraph um rang me up on a Sunday afternoon and they said uh is this Neil Cummins and I said yeah he said we want to do a story on you and I said what about now at the time John John and his family um his brothers were in the news for something that happened in Dubai and I thought they wanted to get get a story on what was going on with John's brothers and I said listen I don't want to talk I'm not interested and they just know it's about you I said there as of tomorrow you're surely as most wanted fugitive and I said why is that and they just go when they when they brought up um about Koff Saba and you stayed awake oh fuck you know I mean I knew what it was I said listen I don't want to talk anymore that's it put the phone down I was fucking shit myself you know I mean like tomorrow I was all I could think of and I remember I was in the shopping center I'm going to be Australia's most wanted is this fucking true or not I rang up my um my solicitor and he was on a fucking I couldn't get in touch with him I could only message him and um he was on a fucking boat cruise and um he told me not to panic he says that's fucking bullshit whatever don't believe him I said mate I was panicking I was fucking panicking and then he says listen if you're that worried I docked tomorrow morning um going hide in a hotel and I said uh fuck no you know what I don't worry I should be all right the next day I was all over the fucking news like I'm talking like I couldn't escape anything five channels out me fucking on every time as that do not approach him he is highly dangerous I was on fucking the first six pages of the fucking newspapers all over everywhere in Australia I couldn't fucking hide but they were using me as a fucking as a guinea pig to find another 20 20 people who are pedophiles and murderers I had at this point in time I don't have a fucking charge to my name I got no fucking charge I'm clean as a fucking whistle with a with a few little man I fucking shit going on in my life I remember ringing my solicitor said have you seen the news he goes yeah go and hide fucking hide we'll go to we'll we'll hand yourself in tomorrow all right we need to think about this so I went to a fucking a hotel as a booked as a checked in I'm all over the there's plasmas on top of the fucking there's plasmas on top of the the the lifts to go up there's that there's there's my fucking mugshot with as it's on the news I get in the lift try and get to the room straight away I'll let someone else pay for the room so I can get up there I forgot my I remember I forgot all my clothes to get my fucking to hand myself in the next day because I was in shorts and I thought I don't want to have myself in shorts I need to if I'm going to have myself in I know this I don't know why I thought this but I just knew there was going to be media there I just thought I can't be looking like a tosser in shorts and shit I said I need to go back and get fucking close went back to get close couldn't get up my fucking by the time I got back to my fucking house the house had already been fucking blocked off and raided so my neighbors had already give me up I went back to the hotel I had to go to a fucking 24 hour fucking came out to get some clothes to look decent for the next day I just stayed in my room and I remember telling myself what do I do he says we meet at 11 o'clock you will hand yourself in to bear with police station and let's just go from there and I remember the next morning it was just like I remember looking at my two kids and I just thought this is it they finally got something on me to put me away you know what I mean and I just thought I'm not going to see my kids again this is this is massive this is massive you know what I mean I've like fucking I'm all over the fucking news I went down to the buffet breakfast at the hotel I couldn't even stay there for more than five minutes because everyone had the fucking paper in front of me with me on the front page I was even you know I had to get out of it so I went I remember going to a police station waiting outside there's a park outside the police station I waited there for an hour until my fucking solicitor turned up the walk to that police station to this day felt like the longest fucking walk ever and I remember going in and I turned to my kids in the car and watched them drive away thinking I'm not going to get released the coppers thought they fucking had they won the lotto when I walked in there I once once seen me at the front desk there was probably about eight turned up to fucking see see me walking all went for about maybe yeah be even before quarter like when I was putting the cells downstairs in the courts because I was trying to get bail I remember they made me go naked and they didn't ask me if I was affiliated with anybody they just put me in and they should they should have asked me because I could have gone into any any prison cell at the time but they didn't and they stripped me naked and kicked my clothes outside the prison cell and kicked them down the hallway and then they did the two the two court prison guards said go outside and get your fucking clothes made me walk outside to get them start naked and they didn't give a shit I remember just waiting there for hours and hours to see if I get bail when I finally got bail I just remember it was it was it was just a godsend like I just I actually just thought I wasn't going to get bail and I was going to stay in in there till my fucking court um case happened which I'm fucking glad I didn't because it went for four and a half years you know I mean three I started three and a half years it went for and um uh I remember going home and I was just everything came crashing down again you know when you I do I wasn't suicidal but I just felt like I'd let my family down um and I've been through a lot of shit when I was working for John but to leave John and now become Australia's most wanted I just felt like how the fuck am I going to get out of this you know what I mean like I was going up to court every fucking week the coppers had the coppers had nothing on me but the fact is they had a gold nugget that's how they I felt to them we've got Neil Cummins at last we've got him we have to find something on him to put him away that's how it felt for the whole three and a half years I was tearing up a call and I could tell they had nothing my solicitor said they've got fuck all on you but they're dragging it and dragging it trying to find something and eventually they tried to get the guy who I did uh was going to help get the money back they were going to bring him in to give him a better um a less sentence to fucking put it on me but he wouldn't come into court he told me I shit myself Neil I couldn't do it I couldn't do that to you but they actually asked him to change his fucking thing and come in and say that I was the main person I was my job wasn't my job I went for work for him you know what I mean it's I was there that that is the second lowest point of my life you know what I mean yeah I've I've I can say that being not sure as most wanted is push me to to what I've got I've achieved at the moment because I used it in the media to gain stuff you know like media coverage my podcast coverage and all that kind of stuff but at the time everyone I everyone hated me you know I lost a lot of friends again and it was just another fucking way of cooking I just got myself established and I was I was in a in a good place and then no one wants to know me I was doing personal training at the time and I lost every fucking client no one wants to fucking know me you know what I mean they they just took it from whatever the media said was fucking true you know what I mean and I thought everybody knew that oh I'm Johnny Brown's brother you got but now it was like well you're Johnny Brown's brother and you're the most wanted and you've been on tv with pedophiles and murderers are you a murderer Neil no I've never met her but they were they were using my profile to find the murderers to find the profile uh dead pedophiles so it put me in a fucking rut again where fucking hell like how am I going to get out of this one for three and a half years I had no fucking friends mate no one's gonna fucking know me why did they resurface after four years of actually trying to get the money back what happened they just dragged the coat on for ages that's all they did they because they couldn't find nothing on me how long were you on the run for well I didn't even know I was on the run mate I didn't know I was on the run so like but that was so it was from when when I first handed myself in coming back from Coffs Harbour that was the actual the day later four and a half years later so they reckon they could not find me yet I had the public social media you could find me on social media all you have to do is google my name and I would come up on fucking on on Instagram but you know what I mean but they couldn't find me for four and a half years they reckon but as soon as they hit the media they knew what two gyms I went to they knew straight away what gyms I went to they knew where I hung out you know what I mean that like I just don't understand it was a massive operation but it killed my life because like yeah my son's seen it my son's seen it and to this day he's still got anxiety from from what the coppers and what he what he's seen you know what I mean like he was shit scared like he to see your dad how like my son's now what 11 um 2017 so you're looking about five six years ago he was traumatized he didn't understand what why why are they saying this to you dad on tv you know what I mean when I walked into the police station I had seven coppers push grab me against the wall I walked in there to give myself up they didn't care I took my son thinking if I take my family here they're not gonna do rough me up they wouldn't rough me up in front of my kids but they fucking did they all waited for me at the top of the stairs and fucking the police station and they fucking grabbed me so he had to see it you know what I mean and why are they why are they doing this to that why are they talking like this are you a murderer dad you haven't killed anyone have you dad you know what I mean and then he he had to come in I had to sign in every day sign into the police station every day that was my bail conditions so every time I picked my kids up from school they had to come with me while I signed in every day for three and a half years see the guy who took the $800 the teagot sentence he got section 10 and the 12 12 months good behavior what was why did you leave John didn't see the loyalty anymore I didn't I didn't see I didn't like the people people get a lot in that circle you see a lot of jealousy and a lot of people were jealous of me and how close I was to John and his family and I could hear the talk all the time you know what I mean and and there was a few people who came back into the circle who went to other gangs and then came back to be with us and one one person in particular who put a gun who pulled a gun out on me um because I wouldn't let him into one of John's nightclubs and then all of a sudden he's walking with us again and I just came around to John I can't do this you know what I mean I I'm not going to walk with somebody who's pulled a gun on me you know what I mean two like two three years ago now I've got to walk with him and there was a lot of people in there who you know the jealous of how I was with John and I do it you know going to slight remarks then then one one person started turning around to me and saying you know I'm in informa like what the fuck like I'm the last person who would be an informa you know what I mean it's just it got to me so much I just went I'm not doing this no more I was getting married and at the time I just went that's it man I'm fucking over this and John even John like kept saying to me like you want to get out I said no but then this one time I just went I've had enough and I just didn't go back that's it was easy to leave or do you become a target no it was easy it was the issue from anybody else because of the information that you might have had what in the family no no it wasn't it wasn't that it wasn't like that it was just like that's it I'm I'm done I'm I'm gone and I'd say I just I'm just going to be the family man now that's it and there was no repercussions there was nothing I was just out but I think I think deep down I think they thought I was going to come back you know he'll be back you know I mean I think he just needs a couple of weeks off or a couple of months off but now I don't I don't ever go back not not in anything I do it's I always just go forward if I if I regret it I regret it later but I don't go back that's that's just how I've been so you left and then you wrote a book is that correct yep a rather book what was the book called a book was called the muscle that was my nickname when I worked for John around Kings Cross and I just I was just yeah I just thought you know I was getting stopped all the time I was out of having a drink and that and I just thought you know what I'm just gonna write a book I'm sick of people stopping me to ask for fucking questions and I always kept it it's like it's like a log I used to keep a log all the time when I worked for John don't know why did he I just did and anything that happened I used to log it down on this piece of paper was just buckling all the time didn't matter if it was boring I just logged down this is what happened I think it's just from back when I was a dormant I used to do that all the time case that anything came to bite me on the ass later on and I just and I used all my points from all that to write my book how was it when the book was going out were you nervous yeah a little bit to see what fucking what I get back from people I didn't get nothing back actually it was all it was all good you know John actually I remember John give me a phone call actually it was a message and then he then we had a phone call he said like yeah you're writing a book and I said yeah and he goes what's it about and I just said it's about me and he just goes what do you mean it's about you and then I said it was about me and looking after you and my life in the underworld and looking after you and he just goes yeah but what do you mean when he said that I kind of stopped and went what do you mean it's about me and then I just remember he said to me just remember tell everyone remember to write that I lead from the front so that's how I was you know I mean that's how the conversation end I don't know if how many books I got told he bought seven books to this day I don't know he's never told me he's never said he's never came up to me and goes I love your book he's a he's a person that doesn't show um a lot of like emotion you know what I mean he was not going to come up to you and pat you on the back say well done you know what I mean he might say to someone afar and then I have to tell you but I've never got any gratitude to say listen you know look what you did for me that that'll never happen you know what I mean but the higher you're up in the chain the less emotion you'll show because you need to be ruthless especially in the world you can't show emotion you show emotion you show weakness that's the way they'll see it but you must have made him nervous he must be on edge about the book he was he was on edge because he was wondering what I was going to write you know what I mean but as I said to him listen I've got this is about me not about you you know what I mean this is about my it's about my story telling the situations what I've been through I'm not here to tell everyone about the situation that you've done you know what I mean if I was there involved and I'll say in my how I how I cope with it but I'm not here to fucking open cans of worms you know what I mean that's how it's how I always been even on my podcast I'm not there to open can of worms I'm there to say this is my life this is what's happened you know what I mean so yeah you get strength from that eventually putting your side of the story across and showing who you were the stuff that you went through was he ever did he ever try and stop the book put the blockers on it no no then the day I think he knew that I'll you know when I said when I said my word I mean my word you know what I mean and I wasn't going I'm not there to fucking put the family down put him down and I'll never have and he knows that I think that's why he trusted me when I when I did the book do you ever feel used new oh yeah yeah I always feel used bro always feel used even to this day I still feel used I still feel that people ring me up and just want want me to hang around with them or come for a drink with them or if I'm in there if I'm in the limelight or I'm one day you know from the paper next day or I'm doing something I get phone calls I haven't heard of people for a while and they said let's go and hang out I know I'm getting used bro I've seen it even back in the days well I know I was getting used it's my presence it's it's you know I've kneel around fuck we'll get in everywhere I've kneeled around we'll get this I've kneeled around we'll get that you know what I mean no one will fuck with us if kneels around rena yet you're happiest when I'm with my two boys do you worry that they could potentially see your life and try and go down that same path not my not my oldest one but my youngest one um London um he tells everybody he's my bodyguard and um you know he he he's now got to an age because he's eight and he's I want to be like you dad you know what I mean I want to be I know he like I just I tell him I don't want him that just play soccer but he says no dad no one's gonna mess with you and that's what scares me because he is a kind of like a for for his age he's not a little hardy but he's he's just the fact of like I think he's just looks up and he he's excited about what I'm doing he doesn't really know what he's saying you know in a way but he's the one who scares me the most do you see a lot of yourself and him yeah yeah my other my other son's too placid and as I said he's seen a lot which scared him London is more the fighter and doesn't take shit off no one and um I see that and um yeah that scares me because I'm trying to get him out that mode because I don't you know he I don't want him in that mode when he gets into his teens um but yeah that he's the one I'm worried about that's a great little name London what where did you get that from I wanted my kids to have um unique names and as I said I couldn't I couldn't name him fucking Liverpool so I had to fuck so as I said I got um I had I was going through kind of places in in England and I just thought you know what I don't mind London even though I'm fucking not from down there but um I like that and as I said my other my other kids called Cruz so like um yeah I just want the unique names for them so see get through all that and all the changes you write your book lives going great you get the extortion charges you become Australia's most wanted what happened at the end of that um uh after I got after I I knew I wasn't going to jail um and I got a kind of kind of off with the charges with a bit with just a you know community service 50 I think it was a 50 hours and then I got you know 18 months suspended sentence um I just kind of like took a couple of months to just get myself my burns right because that took a lot of big toll on me you know I mean um yeah I felt like I lost weight I was going to I was going to court I was off the gear because I didn't want to look intimidating to the judge so I actually turned up sometimes with glasses on I don't even fucking need glasses but my hair parted even like yours I was going to jail like that so I didn't look like Neil intimidation everyone knows and it didn't work because fucking you know I mean I just but I just I just thought you know let I've got to do something different with my life I tried to get out of it went back to personal training didn't happen I wasn't into it um and I just started to do podcast I just want let's talk about things you know I mean let's bring people on who can talk you've been in the same shit that I have or even worse and it actually helped um talking to people with their situations and um I actually enjoy it um because then it's not all about me and I can hear someone else who's got more going on in their life and they've been in more shit than what I have I thought I was in you know what I mean and it's it's actually it's funny I've always wanted as I said before I've never had that person to talk to but when I do my podcast I feel like I have all my guests come on and I have people to talk to it it's hard to explain I just um I get I get off on it um because I've missed a certain part part of my life where I had no one to talk to and when they're talking to me about their problems I feel like I'm helping them even though some of them have been helped or some of them aren't you know I can I feel like I'm giving my advice and um uh yeah that's uh the podcast has really helped me a lot yeah that's the beautiful thing about podcasts a lot of people have got podcasts now but the ones who are hard to it and the ones who are raw and real they're like therapy sessions not just for you for me for other people listening people go fuck me like I feel that way he's come out and that's the the good thing it's to try and leave things not to inspire people but to show people that they're not alone a big hard man like yourself nio six feet four fucking built like a brick shit house then has a suicidal thoughts as well who nobody would have thought I can't believe he's struggling because you put on the persona in the act and as soon as you leave the house it's the big boy plants and man up doesn't have to be this way listen it's a very important to talk it's a it's a must to try and heal anything in life and to try and make yourself feel better but also there comes a stage where sometimes talking is too much where you've just actually got to put things into action exercise is key in my own opinion to try and numb any pain and try and heal any pain is just getting out and exercising once you've got the natural chemicals you actually see in the world a bit differently and plus you can then grow some confidence to then make better decisions and my own personal opinion what is your podcast nio so we can plug it and get people on it um it's secrets of the underworld um that's all there is secrets in the world um nio Cummins so that's that's my podcast at the moment so yeah working people get it watch on it's on all platforms it's on every platform that you go and to listen to Spotify apple all of it so yeah it's on everywhere we'll leave the links in the description you talked about your son there your sons and you got quite a bit emotional can you I try to keep that away then sorry no listen that's a good thing when your dad tried to give you advice if you'd seen your son London going through the same things try to protect somebody getting shot at you kind of sees he's losing touch of who his true identity is do you understand now why your dad was trying to do what he's trying to do I do I do because um and I it's funny how I still go back to the day he left me in the car and and he says don't come back um get 12 months out of it and come back a different person for a holiday but don't come back and want to be with your mates and um I just remember the talk but you know what when you when dad's trying to be dads and you don't want to listen to them and because my dad was in the nightclub scene and he knew a lot of people I blocked him out like I blame my dad sometimes for showing me these people and sometimes bringing me to his meetings you know I mean like I used to get locked up in a cupboard by my fucking stepfather so I couldn't hear the deal as that was going on you know what I mean or I'd be in the fucking the office of the nightclub and hearing them batter someone and fucking put their heads against the wall you know what I mean why take me there and let me see it all and then try and stop me from going in it you know what I mean you've you've shown me you've opened the door um and yeah yeah not that I want to fucking knock people out I wasn't my immature but as I said I looked up to my dad and I knew no one would fuck with my dad I looked up to my uncle no one would fuck my uncle I wanted that power I could never get that power when I was in England when I came here I drove to get that power and once I got that that as I said my my security license and I started working on that door once I was told I was the head dormant of a fucking club then I started to work on my fucking profile of being somebody that you don't fuck with and that's how it all started with me I didn't care who you were James I I took on main people in Sydney and didn't give a fuck do you miss that do I miss it um not the not the door work the door work work was easy for me that I could there was a piece of shit but the fact is that I miss looking after John because it was in me as I said that to me was um was another level you know as I said to everybody the first time I met Tong and Sam I told myself and I told the dormant who was next to me I'm gonna get his job I want that job and that was the first time I met him I want that job now I got it I meant sure I made sure I got that fucking job what if John phones up now and says look can't work me for another year no told you no no no with my kids now I wouldn't want them to see um what I used to do or what could happen and now now a days John's it's not like it was back then John's John's very like um the family aren't as aren't as big as what they used to be you know I mean they're still big but they're out of the scene kind of thing there's other families coming forward now you know what I mean so to me I he doesn't need a bodyguard anymore what do you think about looking back in your life I've got no regrets but that way but I wish I'd have gone through a few of situations and and done them a bit different than what I did you know what I mean like some people I wish I could apologize to um the way I have to act in ways of situations um but I would never change anything there's nothing I wouldn't change because if I changed anything I wouldn't be the person I am now so it's a to me it's a learning curve how's life now life's good as I said life life's very good for me now as a I'm doing a lot of tv my podcast um you know I've got a radio show coming on soon I'm writing two more books um you know I'm just a normal fucking dad now you know what I mean but I still won't take shit but the thing is I'm not at that level anymore you know what I mean I enjoy telling people you know my life writing about my life and as I said that's my podcast is everything to me at the moment yeah it just keeps mashing at them brother what about plans for the future where do you see yourself where do I see myself um I just see myself I hopefully support my kids that's all I want to do I don't see myself doing anything else you know I mean I'd love to do a closed label but everyone's on that at the moment and I don't really I don't like following suit so but um yeah my kids are going over to England soon to play football um they've got trials with Manchester United so I'm hoping to come over there this year and watch them do that so yeah yeah that's unbelievable it's for the reef that you read to what you're doing now always say this what make I know there's a lot of talk about masculinity and being alpha the most masculine thing and alpha thing you can do is be a good father be a good husband be a good boyfriend no matter what level of income you have as long as you're doing that you're winning in life because everything else is bullshit Neil you've lived that life you've felt it you know the destruction it causes not just internally within you but the people around you and that's the heartbreaking thing because I can see you're a good guy a sensitive guy who tries to do the right thing sometimes it's not the right thing but in your mind it is for the loyalty that you have for others and sometimes that can be manipulated with those in power I've interviewed enough men who I know are staunch you're solid 100% who would die for other people but the sad thing is they wouldn't die for them yeah very true very true how do people buy your book Neil how do they get your podcast just plug everything your social medias yeah just on my social medias everything's on my social media so yeah through there like my book you can get through it was through W. H. Smith you could get it through there but otherwise it's just online and yeah you can get my book through there the muscle yeah for anybody watching who's struggling right now mentally what advice would you have for them not to listen to the demons in your head that's one thing because that's what I did for years listening to the demons is to be more strong and do talk up because that was the problem for me I didn't come forward and talk I thought if I talked I'd get laughter and that was the main thing for me coming forward and actually talking to a mate and explaining my situation and then once I knew that that person was listening to me I opened up a lot and when I opened up a lot everything went out from my head and I relaxed and it was good to have that person there you know I mean like as I said as you said before like there's been times when I think I want to talk to someone but as I said I went to someone and they laughed at me and that when when someone laughs at you then you you you build up more shit in your head thinking well maybe it is right that I after in my life maybe it is because if they think it's funny well no one can help me you know what I mean and as I said I I have time now to when someone's needs someone to talk to I've always picked up the phone even if it's midnight or one o'clock in the morning you know what I mean because you never know if that's they're like you and all I can say is just come forward I always say to everybody come forward because if you don't you might regret it you know what I mean and I as I said that I'd hate it to ever happen to me touch what it doesn't but I'd never want to see a mate who in the same situation that I've had and not have anyone to talk to that's the hardest thing to build up and just sit there and go through what should you do do I kill myself do I not am I good enough for them or not and you know you are deep down or you know you shouldn't be doing what you're doing but the thing is you don't know who to talk to and as I said me being staunch and me being whatever I am my persona I can't I couldn't go to anyone because I'm Johnny Brams bodyguard I did laugh at me you know what I mean and I've seen so many people come forward in the past fucking four years and I and we now talk about shit we have a laugh about shit and but back in the day they wouldn't have they wouldn't have done that yeah but fair play a lesson for totally changing your life and try to be a better father and owning your mistakes it takes courage to be speaking out it takes courage to admit your fuck ups and understanding okay maybe I was a bit of a loose cannon there where I should have done better but we're all living learning there's not many people actually own their fuck ups you're clearly doing that you've got your podcast hopefully getting another couple of books out and just fucking make money off the past make money off planning for the future that's what it's all about to keep your family in a good place and like I said earlier on the thing we can be trying to be a better dad than we were yesterday I'm still learning my kids are 12 and 13 I've got another one anyway I believe I'll get it better right right this time because I understand that there's no manual really for a man how to be a dad then it's that's the hard thing because it's me I'm very controlling I'm always trying to please as well and but I think I'll understand it more now it's took me it took me probably nine 10 years to understand what it's actually like to be a dad and try to be more sensitive towards it instead of just get up and get on with it so yeah it's a beautiful thing to be a good father and that's all it's about for me now as family and fuck everybody else I'm not asked I'm not asked what people say I'm not asked what others do but if people are my friend I'll genuinely always help them million percent I believe my name's strong out there where I've got a lot of trust and love behind this as well but I used to I used to listen to my haters a lot and that was my biggest problem I used to listen to the haters on on social and think that they were right all the time and that's what what it took me a while to get my head around that I'd judge myself by saying are they right are they they had if they stand around and say to me you fucking never done this or you weren't John Evans bodyguard or you fucking never got shot or you haven't you're not a real gangster I'd think they tell I start believing them and believing them and believing them every time instead of just fucking shutting it off you know what I mean and that was that was one of my biggest problems for years listening to all these fuckers yeah that's because yeah that's like a self-esteem that's like a confidence in yourself to understand that you are bigger and better than them remember these people who write those comments they're struggling themselves you've got to kind of feel sorry for those individuals you're always going to get that but it's as everything I've been doing over the last five years you do become more fixed into it you don't really want to because as a man you still want to attack but then you're just feeding the energy yeah I don't even bother now I'm just at a stage in my life fuck everybody else you can say what you want you know what if you think that about me you're right yes I am it's just it is because feeding the energy just then makes you sad because being a sensitive man we question everything are we doing the right things should we serve these people more always trying to people please but doing that you're not trying to change your own life with a hundred percent yourself never trying to feed in everybody else it's too fucking hard so you've got to truly focus on yourself be a good individual try and learn through your mistakes we're all we're human Neil we're always going to keep making mistakes but as long as we can jump back quicker instead of waiting at 10 years 20 years 30 years life's too fucking precious and it's far too short to be worrying about fucking idiots you've came through too much to be even trying to retaliate to these people just live your life do your thing and gradually you do become stronger to what people say because you get an internal belief that now you're wrong because I know who I was five years ago 10 years ago and ain't the same person so you can say what you want do what you want you're right go on with your day okay you're right bye bye that's that for me it's just try and concentrate on the positives but as a man it's hard because we're always trying to not impressed but we're always trying to I don't know it's a fucking weird thing it's like I just don't want to I always think that when they do that they've got one over me you know what I mean and I try and and I do try and retaliate and I shouldn't retaliate because half the time I get the haters it's not a fake profile anyway yeah that's pure that's pure egonial yeah it's just to try and I'm not this way the more you do that the more you then you then start believing it and then they've get one up on you because they've stole your power so fuck them just go on with it would you like to finish up on anything brother no I'm happy bro I'm just I'm I'm honored that you asked me to come on this show bro and it's like as I said I've been watching you for a while now and I'm just yeah as I said honored that you brought me on and I've been able to express my fucking life to everyone over there you know what I mean so yeah thank you yeah listen this is a great conversation this will do well and I thoroughly enjoyed it myself especially doing a zoom as well it's not as easy to connect yes and get that emotion but you showed the emotion where people can relate and go fuck me he's lived that life so fair play to you for everything you're doing anything I can ever help if you know I'm a phone call away but we'll leave all the links in the description and we'll finish up on that note just keep doing what you're doing and that's it basically just yeah I look forward to seeing what you do for the future brother thanks James thanks very much yeah take care bro thanks mate thank you bye