 My name is Jill Cleese and I am the High School's Career Center Liaison. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We have the great pleasure of having our 2006 alumnus, Ryan Gann, with us tonight to share his career journey from paraprofessional to professional. He'll also share the skills and experience needed to be successful in today's public library and give us the inside scoop on what it's like to supervise a branch library. The session tonight is one hour. It is being recorded. Feel free to ask Ryan questions throughout his presentation tonight by typing them in the chat box. He's happy to take them as he's going along. That way kind of keeps the presentation a little more interactive. And you are welcome to join us on Twitter by tweeting your comments using the hashtag SJSU colloquia. I'll type that in the chat box in just a moment. So we are ready to go. So now, Ryan, please do take it away. Great. Thanks so much, Jill, and thanks for having me. It's really great to be able to speak to my fellow students in the high school. It's really nice to be able to get back. And so, yeah, it's been a, it seems like it hasn't been a long time, but it's been 10 years. And I'd really like to share with you guys the stories of my success and tips that helped me get to where I am today from graduating San Jose State High School. So a little background on my experience at San Jose State. It's where, not only I got my degree, but I met my wife at high school. We were taking a class for young adult studies. And, you know, we still met in person, thank goodness. But what ended up happening is we met in class and started dating afterwards. And it was really interesting. And now we're married. And we've been together for about, yeah, about those 10 years when I met her in high school. So a little tidbit, I wanted to share that with you guys. So, okay, so I wanted to get to, this is a pair of professionals, professional, my path from library clerk to branch manager. I wanted, I'm going to be talking about myself a lot, but it's really more for you to get tips and tricks on how to advance in your career. So when I'm talking about my experience, you know, feel free to jump in and ask questions about what you want to know, okay? All right, well, let's go ahead and get started with the first slide. So let's go. Again, I wanted to congratulate you guys. Librarianship is an amazing career. These past 10 years have been great. And it's all due to the San Jose State High School, you know, with that degree, you know. So I'm really happy that you guys are in school and in the program. So, again, my background is I started as a library clerk in 2004 at Orange Public Library. And shortly thereafter, I enrolled in the high school. And in 2005, I was promoted the library assistant. And then in 2007, I believe I was promoted to librarian. And then just recently, I was promoted to the site supervising librarian and branch manager. So do you guys, I want to, you know, engage you guys. And what do you like about your experience at the San Jose State University High School right now? You know, feel free to type in the chat. Let's get some more interaction here. So anyone want to join in? What do you like about high school? I'll talk about something while you guys are typing in. I really like the availability of the professors. You know, I could shoot them an e-mail and I would get a response right away. Oh, okay. So Kelly says the collaboration with other students. That's great. I was part of the listening group, as it was known. Okay. Elena says teamwork. Great. Collaboration. Oh, okay. We're also, Anastasia, hey Anastasia. You know, I was just working with her. She works here at Orange Public Library. So she says she can set her own schedule for classes and lectures. Kate says, I like that I'm finally a part of a community where it's acceptable to list reading. Yeah. I know. We get a little bit of people like, what do you read? What is that? You know? And it's really nice to be among fellow people who believe in reading. And then Anthony says, oh, you know, some students like talk about a collaborate. So it's a flip of the coin and but I can tell you collaboration and group work is a real key in the workplace, teamwork, like working as a team and thinking about your teammates. So and then later on, I want to get to know you guys in chat. What library experience do you have already? And don't feel ashamed if you're not working a library. I've crafted this presentation to include you guys too and finally great tips on how to get library experience. So who can you guys type in the chat? Like you can say, hey, I'm not working in library or if you're a library clerk or a library page, maybe a library assistant. Okay. So we've got a library technician. You're three. It's a library assistant in high school. Okay. That's great. Okay. Okay. Someone's working as a page. The university circulation. I did that too at UC Berkeley kind of working at a specialized library, the Janini Library as well. Yeah, that's right. Anastasia, I know you're from working in Orange and okay, it works as a library media tech at an elementary school. Okay guys, well, okay. We have another librarian that's working on the degree, that's great. And so hopefully this will give you some tips on maybe my branch manager and actually maybe some tips for a librarian as well. And then we have Alicia that volunteered at a university library. That's great. Volunteer work is very valuable too. Okay. Well, let's go ahead and get to the next part. Okay. And I wanted to go ahead and assure you guys being in the iSchool program is a big plus in applying for library jobs. I recently sat in on an interview panel for library assistants and we waited being currently in the iSchool program very highly. And Anastasia Finch was one of those candidates and ended up getting the job as the panel that I sat on. So just wanted to throw that in there. And so the proof's in the pudding. You can ask her about that. So it showed that the candidate is committed to the profession. You know, we've valued that degree whether you were in the program or had completed it as it being a commitment to the profession. And as degree librarians, we were on the panel. We wanted the job to go to someone to help them in the career. So, you know, we definitely viewed that on it as a career track. I just want to say that when you're applying for these jobs and I wanted to give you this tip, we don't hire and we were not directed, we were directed to hire not for potential, meaning we place people in bands depending on potential if they could already do the job and then maybe a third band which were, you know, they weren't qualified, you know, maybe were nice people but didn't have listed on the resume or just didn't have the experience. So again, guys, if you have questions, feel free to interject. So the candidates that came in the highest were A, they were working on in a job and had the experience already or they had worked in a prior job and had experience already or they had volunteered, maybe classwork that really matched up and they talked about the projects that they did in their interview. And so what happened when I was in high school, what I remember and I was actually reading some of my accomplishment reports that I do, you know, that we send to our supervisor as we do our work. So I looked at one from 2006 when I was actually a library clerk before I got promoted about what I was doing and a lot of those reports were steered towards the job description of the future position that I had my eye on. So let's say if I was in as a library clerk, I would look at what does the job description of a library assistant at my organization. So I looked at what's called the classification spec and then I looked at that and said, okay, what am I doing now as a library clerk and how can my job experience and the coursework that I'm currently taking in the high school match up with the job description as a library assistant, you know, what is it they want? So and so that was a very key point. So if I noticed that there was a deficiency, let's say I read something in the library assistant description where it's like, you know what, I'm not too good on story time right now. I would kind of think about that. How can I go ahead and fix that kind of deficiency? Like if they ask me if I had any problems, you know, presenting story time, I wanted to be sure if I had gone that interview that I would be able to answer that confidently saying, well, yes, I've presented a weekly story time since, you know, this time, since last year, two years ago, et cetera. Okay, so we have a question from Elizabeth. She asks, is an accomplishment report like a yearly performance evaluation? And when I say accomplishment, that's a very good question. When I say an accomplishment report, it's actually a monthly report. It's like a very informal, what did you do this month as opposed to last month? You know, what kind of duties did you do? Did you do a story time? You know, if that's part of your regular duties, list it. You know, was there a special project that you executed for your supervisor, you know, list that as well? Or if you're currently in the middle of a certain project or task, you know, I listed that as well. So those are good. If you're not currently doing that now, that might be good for your own perspective. I was really happy when I was going through and making this presentation that I had 10 years of reports that I could go through. And I had a great time kind of seeing how, what I was doing from way back when. And then that's going through the years of how I progressed. So if you're not currently doing one now, I highly suggest for you to do one. Yeah, that's right Kate. It's like kind of a super detailed resume. And you know, you have that resource for yourself where let's say you're going into an interview or you're prepping your resume and you might be having trouble like, well, I want to go ahead and I need some more ammo to, you know, hit this job description that I'm applying for going back to those reports and including them on your resume and probably creating something that you can talk about when you go into the interview is very helpful. So, all right, moving on, let's go ahead and go to the next one. Okay, so I was talking about, hey, are you guys currently working in the library? Do you have library experience? You know, maybe some of you out there don't currently have one because, you know, you're going to school and you're very busy or, you know, you guys have other jobs. I understand that. But so I wanted to point out, but what if you don't have library experience, you know, take the Info294 of the internship class. It's really, really helpful. I must say I took one class, one for credit class for the internship and I had, you know, looking back now and I hope this advice will help you guys that I wished I had taken another internship class. I was kind of down on the public library track, but I think it would have been best if I had taken something like a virtual course and maybe reference or cataloging or something like maybe exploring a different type of library internship, maybe a special library, a community college library would be great. You know, I just did a part-time job at a community college library and I was like, wow, you know, this was, I never knew this existed and I wish I had kind of done it earlier. So my advice for you guys is take one, at least one, two if you can have it because it was a dilemma for me because I currently work as a library clerk and you, I was a library clerk but I didn't have library assistant experience. Okay, Alaina asks, okay, so you're on your first semester. I think there's an Info 294 checklist, you can look that up. There's a checklist, I think you have to complete the first core classes, I think it's the three or four class series before you can move on, but definitely it's not too late to start thinking now and looking at the internship list which they have up there and think about, you know, what, which ones of these internships sound good to me because more than likely the organizations continue from semester to semester and they might be around when it comes time for you to take your Info 294. And so I have, but it's never too early to start thinking about what you would like to do with that. So here's the thing, I know some of you guys were volunteers or you currently work as a library clerk or a library assistant or excuse me, a library clerk. And my dilemma was when I was employed as a library clerk at the City of Orange Public Library. I couldn't work out of my class specification, my current job, meaning since I was being paid as a library clerk, I couldn't perform, let's say, a story time on the regular because then I would be doing the work of a library assistant and with the strange things how city employment laws work. I would be working out of, what's called out of class and I would, should have been being paid at that level. So I was like, well, how do I get experience when I can't, though I'm having current experience at my job, but I need more. And what was great about the high school degree was the internship. I ended up taking an internship at a library where I live close to as well, which was the Anaheim Public Library. And so the reason why it was one of the best opportunities that I had during library school was because I could work the reference desk. I could get library assistant experience and some librarian experience working as an intern for Anaheim Public Library. And also, due to kind of the sensitivity that at work, I could ask a bit more questions about, from other librarians, how they were in library school, whereas I felt as comfortable to getting so personal at my current job. Thanks, Kate and Jill, for those links about the Info 294 course. Again, you guys, that internship is great. I also want to say about that Info 294 course, it's best to do it during your tenure at high school because those internships won't necessarily be available to you after you graduate, yeah. And unfortunately, that might be the case, but at least those organizations that are offering it to you while you're currently in the degree program, they have had interns before and can put you on a special project. So, all right, so let's get on to the next one. Here's more info, again, like I said, you can take up to eight units. And it's better now that you can take it, you can get kind of what's called double credit. You know, you get credit towards your degree and experience for your work portfolio and resume, rather than trying to get an internship after a program like I was talking about, you know. And maybe your internship site will have a job opening, you know, you've worked there as an intern, there's kind of senior work, people will know you over there and though it might take some time, you know, it might not open during your internship, but when it comes time to apply for the job, you might have that extra little push that like, oh yes, we remember that intern and yeah, let's go ahead and give that person a chance, you know. When planning your internship, make sure your projects and your work experience match the job descriptions, meaning, okay, so you're going for your internship and you're deciding on what projects you wanna learn, go ahead and look at a job description or class specification for library assistant, library and the jobs that you're trying to move up to and come up with a program and collaborate with your internship site to create something that will be helpful, beneficial for both of you and that's something like, again, more things that you can list and talk about in your interview and on your resume. So let's see, here are, okay, we've got some other questions from Kate, good comment from Anthony, thank you and I'm sure they'll get a hold of you about that info. And again, I wish I had taken another Info294 class. It would have been kind of fun to just kind of see what it would have been in like a university library setting. I would have liked to be maybe worked in a community college library before I had waited until like this past year, so make sure you get on that early and kind of learn from what I didn't do. So that's what I wish I had done. So that's enough about the Info internship class. Again, I can't recommend that highly enough. So here's a live, I was a library clerk, here's the library that I had started out was the El Medina Branch Library. It's kind of an East Orange and we kind of serve a big Latino population out in that area. I started there in December of 2004 and started library school soon afterwards. So as a library clerk, I checked in and checked out books and I pulled holds meeting that items such as books and DVDs that patrons have put on hold. I take them from the library collection and way back when I was a library page during college and community college, I do that as well. Collecting library finds is a big thing in the public librarianship. So it helped me learn customer service, how to talk to patrons, to kind of give them bad news, find out different ways how to deliver that bad news and convince them how to pay library fines. But being not so firm but gentle in breaking that to them. And it also helped me kind of give that librarianship, at least in the public library, you have to have like a good, what's called like a bedside manner or maybe a desk side manner in dealing with the public. I also integrated my high school coursework like the young adult classes. And since I was taking classes at a time when I was a library clerk, I get certain assignments and I would reach out to some of the librarians and I've also advised like other students that were working at Orange Public Library on their classes as well. So it was a good way to kind of ask for a little bit of mentorship while on the job, you know, and say, hey, you know, remember you guys took library school classes and had to ask your life, well now it's time to give back. So don't be afraid to ask. Again, if you're in these positions, you know, and this goes back to a volunteer, don't be afraid to ask for extra training, which means you might get a choice where your supervisor is asking for you, you know, hey, is there anything else? And you might want to bring up extra training like temporary library assistant duties. Now this might sound confusing where you're working out of classification at a city position, but you're able to ask at least in our city about working temporary out of class and it could be only on a temporary basis. So you could do it on a project-based thing, but for like maybe let's say, you know, a certain amount of time and that'll give you experience as well. You know, again, if that isn't accepted by our organization, maybe find some different strategies to ask it. Again, in the interest of succession planning, and that's kind of like a buzzword phrase, which is talking about, well, if someone retires or someone leaves the organization, it's in the organization's interest to have someone already trained rather than doing training and then having them in the role. So, oh, okay, someone suggested running for the library board, that might be good. I haven't seen that around here, but, you know, if that works for someone and had worked for someone in the organization, hey, give it a go. So if they tell you, you know, again, look at that Info 294 class and revisit it again, you know, you might want to take that second internship, okay? All right, so now I'm going to go ahead and move on to the library assistant part. Are you guys any of the library clerks right now or library pages that want to ask questions about how to proceed to the next level? You're more than welcome to type that in the chat, because I want to pay attention to how to move from each paraprofessional position to get kind of promoted to the next one. So if you have any questions about that, please interject. So a little bit later in the program, I was promoted to a library assistant. So what was interesting was library assistants still perform library clerk duties. So if you're currently a library clerk or you're doing a volunteer work as a library clerk, increasingly at different library systems, library assistants will fill in at the circulation desks or the lending services desks where they'll perform basically the duties as a library clerk. So that's a big plus. So if you're a library clerk and applying for a library assistant position, that would help you. So as a library assistant, there's a lot of things that you can do. There's story time, cataloging, you put on programs. That's very important. Library program is very important. Library tech work, helping out patrons or a staff with eBooks are pretty big now, even like just the regular computer programs. So lots of stuff for you guys to do. And when you're in these positions, in these paraprofessional positions, you should be kind of looking at, since you are in the degree program, what kind of librarian you want to be, look at your organization and kind of see where people are because you might be a support staff for them in the future. They might be your future supervisor. So, you know, is it adult services that you want to work with? Do you want to work with children? Maybe there's a teen librarian there and maybe you want to do teen work. Think about that as you're going on. And be conscious as you complete these projects in doing your work and asking for more duties, how is this building a foundation for me to move on to the next step in my career? And again, we were talking earlier about accomplishment reports. That's great. Look at your evaluate, like be honest when you look about yourself when you look at your performance evaluations, which those come hopefully annually. And look at your defences of these and kind of think about making those into strengths, you know. Even though you may finish the program at high school, like hopefully that sets you on a path of learning in the career. So, what helped me a lot as being a library assistant was trying to say yes to duties that the management and supervisors kind of offered me. I find that they are able to have a good perspective on your workflow and where you fit in the organization. So, what's going to happen in the library session is people aren't going to tell you point blank that if you do X and Y, you'll get promoted, you know. And though a duty might be like, oh gosh, this is more work, you know, or oh, I don't know if I might not like this. It might be an expression of your libraries, your library organization's need that they are trying to fulfill. And they're trying to test you out to see if you are the person for that job. So, again, be pretty open and stretch. Being eager is really well, you know, I think being eager to take on new duties is a really hallmark of how people at least succeed in my library organization. A big tip, you might be asked to manage volunteers or do some sort of small scale type of supervisor or work. I highly recommend that. That's a great testing ground for you to learn skills on how to manage and supervise someone. They might not be library staff, but supervising and managing is a great skill to have. It's, and if you want to move up, you have to be good at it or, you know, like, and like doing it. So, managing volunteers is a good testing ground for you to gain those skills. So, it might be something like a project that you might want to suggest in your internship or if you're currently working in the library about what you want to do. So, does anyone have any questions about, before I talk more about maybe library assistant to be the last paraprofessional position to becoming a librarian or being maybe what skills to go on to the next level of being a librarian? Anyone? Okay, well, just interject as I go along. So, your next step to librarian is like kind of find out your strengths and how your skills and desires can kind of fit in with the organization. Like, people, I know supervisors love hearing new programs or services, some don't, where all these positions, yes, all the positions and promotions were at the same library. Yeah, I worked my way up and this was kind of the trajectory that I did at Orange Public Library. And, but I can talk about some other things that happen as well, so I'll save that for the end. So, if not creating a new program or service, season again on something how you can expand an existing program or service, you know, that's great. And, this is very important, keep your e-portfolio and plan accordingly for the interviews or resumes that you're putting out and or resumes that you're putting out and look at the job description for your application to library positions and make sure you hit all those points, you know, and your e-portfolio or classwork, you can go in and talk about that when you're in the interview resume. Yes, thanks, Jane. Yeah, I know people, it sometimes is a lot easier to move around to different library positions and kind of do your work and then move on. I was very lucky to be able to stay where I'm at right now. Okay, so moving on, because wow, time flies. Okay, so finally I was promoted as a librarian and I came back to the main library, which is located off of here at Chapman, big library. I had a renovation in 2007. So, again, I asked those questions from library assistant librarian. So, remember the iSchool library coursework that I talked while I was a library clerk when I was asking about young adult classes? I became a young adult librarian at Orange Public Library and I served teens for the past eight years and it was really fun to plan library programming. Teen programming was a big thing. Planning for their teen area. I put in a game nook where kids could go and play games. We had a board game night. We had anime nights. I talked to someone from Rancho Cucamonga that did Rancho Cucamonga. Oh, is that Anthony Bernier? Well, if that's not, forgive me, but I remember Anthony Bernier was also in the Young Adult Services. I read a lot of his books. Great Kelly, teens are a great population. I love working with them. It also makes you very nimble to deal with all sorts of populations. So, teens really need that. They're an underserved population. And again, I just want to reiterate. I keep on saying your e-portfolio and your combined real-world experience that you get during the internship or your volunteer work should match the job description for a librarian. And what comes up in the library description, at least at Orange Public Library, is that there's all that increasing independence. That you're supposed to kind of take the library's policies and procedures and internalize it. So, you know, it's not bad to ask questions, but it's good to kind of think about doing the work and then asking questions later. Like, do the work and ask questions later. And gain that experience and that confidence. Okay, we got a question from Michelle. You're info-tuneating for research and you're looking for a topic, what library trend do you currently see that would be a good topic to research? Like, probably like the e-library, which is like e-books, like databases, and then how that fits in with public librarianship, that's a good one. I did focus, Alina asked, yes, I did focus my coursework towards public libraries, but I also took a lot of classes in programming and also I think we also had like kind of an IT class that we took. So, yes, and that's right, Jane. Many public libraries get new money from their cities or counties as they expand to different populations. So, okay, moving on, wow, we're moving on. So, finally, I'm the branch manager, the site super-sizing library at TAP branch library. So, when you're a branch manager, you're now a supervisor and that's a skill that has to be learned. So, checking out books, I think the Five Strengths is a good book, too. And meeting with staff and getting to know them is really important. You're not only, you're a part of a team and it's something that you might not be used to if you work as a librarian, kind of working with your own library professionals. And being a past library paraprofessional kind of helps and since I supervise a lot of library paraprofessionals, I know what it's like to be in that situation and I really try to sit down and kind of mentor and try to provide advice, which is not always taken, but, you know, I really try and maybe something that I give advice for sparks a different discussion that I can speak to. So, remember, again, when you were a paraprofessional, that's sorry, that should say paraprofessional, train and here's something that was said to me very recently. Training staff on how to do something like doing a program or doing a certain procedure is different than developing staff. And so, the developing part is interacting with your staff, you know, closely, like how are you doing, asking how their day was, maybe asking, prompting them for questions where they might be open to talking about their career ambitions, maybe there are other duties that they are open to. They can provide you valuable insight. They're another person about your branch library. Maybe a different procedure is not going correctly and they have and they can provide valuable input in order to do something different. That way, you're at the same day delegating work, but you're more doing it in more of a collegial manner. Again, you guys were talking about at the very beginning what you liked about at the iSchool was collaboration, you know, group work, teamwork, working with your peers. And as you're a supervisor, you're not necessarily over someone, but you're part of a team. And I think that's a very fruitful way of how you're a leader, but you're still part of the team at the library. So, when you're a branch manager, it's good if you walk the walk where that could be from getting up from the desk and walking the patron over there and showing them exactly what they're looking for. Walking the walk can mean, you know, you're providing advice and direction and to what are your subordinates and you do the work yourself, you know? And then you're like, hey, I'll take care of that. And being a branch manager, it's like you're taking care of a million-dollar building. It's really nice to be entrusted with that and to be entrusted with that. But since you're taking care of a city building, you need to communicate with your city's facilities department because a lot of things, they come and they actually do the physical work that take care of your building. You know, sometimes my building's kind of old, older. And so, when it rains, there might be some leaks that come in. And I have a, you know, I like to think I have a good relationship with the city's facilities department. I welcome them in, you know, I kind of, hey, say, hey, how their day is. I've got a stash of water. You know, I try to offer at all times. And I really try to show my appreciation for them to coming out to take care of the business. I have the business and the building. Because though you don't work, you're suddenly starting to work with people that you hadn't worked before. It's good to start on the right foot and build lasting relationships with them right away. You know, get off on the good foot. And you'll hear about something as a branch manager having the golden plunger. And the golden plunger is basically sometimes you're going to clean up stuff. So I do a lot of cleaning here at the library. Not a whole lot, it doesn't take up my whole day. But, you know, I pick up trash, you know, I throw away things. I really try to, I'm the caretaker of not only the population that comes into the library, but the building itself. So, and here at the Tap Branch Library, we have a one desk model. We're meeting the librarian and the library clerk work at the same desk. And the librarian does library duties but also does clerk duties. So, those library assistant duties and the library clerk duties that I had done before have really played a part in my success here at TANF. And finally, I want to leave you with that is being a branch manager is really rewarding. You are the librarian and you have your own library. I walk in in the morning and it's just a great feeling. Like sometimes I just walk around the empty building before we open and just really take in how awesome it is to be a librarian and have my own library and kind of make a difference, you know, day after day. And I think, like I said at the very beginning, librarianship is an amazing career and these past 10 years have been amazing. And I owe it all to San Jose State High School. So, I want to wrap it up. We've got about five minutes left. But do you guys have any questions or anything? We're going to go to the last slide. Again, I just want to reiterate, communicate effectively and often, think about how you're part of a team. I know we have trying things to try to get along and, you know, keep those temperatures at hand. You know, take a workshop and read a book on dealing with difficult patrons. And I stress going to conferences network and ask a frank questions at library conferences. This is how I wanted to get more teaching experience. And I asked a former San Jose State alumni and I talked to my former professors. Again, thank you, Professor Jane Fisher. She really helped me back then with the ePortfolio and she's continuing to help me now. And has allowed me this great opportunity to speak to you guys. So, if you have any other further questions, more detail that I need to go in my emails here. And so, I'm going to open the floor. Any questions for you guys while I'm here? How is it working with board members? Well, they're citizens of the city and they can provide a lot of insights into things outreach from the city. So, definitely listening to your board members, they can provide a good input for you. You know, we, and some of the board members are going to be there a lot and they make a lot of sometimes depending on the strength or weakness of the board. I have a lot of say in your library. So, it's always good. Think of them as the public and value their input, you know, as you would. So, thanks Elena for that question. Elizabeth, yes, a mentor was very helpful. Try to seek out those mentor opportunities. Again, those conferences, when you're at the San Jose State alumni reception, I highly go over there. They have a great spread there, you know, great food and drinks, but make sure to reach out and ask for, bring your business cards and ask, hey, what do you do? You know, and if they're matching up with your career desires, you know, hey, can I go in and email you and ask questions? That's why alumni are there because they want to give back. So, Elizabeth, yes, a mentor is very helpful. And again, speaking of them, you know, send me an email. Yes, my wife currently works as a school librarian for a charter school in Lawndale. And so, it's wonderful to talk about things in the library, you know, the library world and share books and whatnot. So, yeah, she's gotten also a job in the library field. So, Anthony has a question. Right, thank you very much. And you actually did call me out. I do, I do teach full-time for the faculty. And I'm very happy and very proud that you were here. Oh, okay. Well, it's good to hear from you, Professor Bernanke, because you mentioned from Oakland. And I was like, hey, I know an Anthony from Oakland. I was in the program. I remember your book, your book on library spaces for young adults. Well, I'm especially pleased to see that you promoted up from my librarianship. Oftentimes, people don't go into that work because they don't feel that there's a ladder up for them. But you certainly have proved that wrong. I have a couple of things I wanted to suggest to you. One of them is our recent, our recent, oh yes, our program has produced some really good research on library leadership. And one of the things that they've come up with in that research stream has been the importance of being liked by the people, especially the people to whom you report. Be they a library board, city council, school district supervisors, however. But the importance of being liked is really important. And it's not just anecdotal. This is really serious stuff. So finding ways for you to ingratiate yourself, not just heading over backwards, but making an effort about being liked. And the other thing I wanted to add before I let you close is that you did cover this earlier, but I want to reinforce it. And that's the notion of measuring and evaluating and documenting the contributions. Not simply listing them in a report, but measuring them and evaluating them so that you're constantly improving and you can document and show that improvement over time. That's very persuasive when you're coming up for promotion. So that's all I wanted to say. Thanks again, Ryan. Thank you. That's very right, Professor Bernier. Thank you so much for your input, Professor Bernier. He's exactly right. You need to have that documentation. And I hope that the portfolio, that capstone to the program and the degree is invaluable for that. And that puts you in the structure for a strategy that you hopefully take throughout your whole career. So, yeah, that's a great presentation. I actually was watching a lot of those colloquia, how to structure mine as well. And Patty Wong is great. And if you see her at a conference, approach her. She's really amazing, very open to talking to students. Well, Andy, I just want to entertain any more questions before we close out. Looks like it's 7 o'clock. So, oh, yeah, okay, from Kelly. Great. So, the question is you're currently assistant in a high school library. And your eventual goal is to be a YA or teen librarian in the public sphere. I would say, okay, so if you want to go ahead and take a leap to get to the public library, clerk or assistant there. As far as a clerk position, I think since you're doing more independent work, it sounds like at your high school library, I maybe wouldn't take a library clerk position. But I would definitely do a library assistant position to work in a public library. Though you might not be working as a doing teen work as a library assistant, you're going to get your foot in the door because a library assistant is just, you know, a hair's length away from becoming a librarian. And so, sometimes teen librarians are split between different departments, like you might be a teen librarian and do adult services. You might be a teen librarian and work with children's service. Yes, and then also read a voyeur as well. Great articles in that. So, I would suggest, yes, please get a library assistant position in a public library. And Jane did also talk about that other option. If there aren't any library assistant positions in a public library immediately, take the Info 294 internship and then help out with, ask for specifically for teen programs. And the teen, there's like a lot of work as teen summer reading programs, helping out, presenting those teen programs. So, I hope that the summer would actually be a very good time. Great, great point, Jane, really appreciate it. Thanks, Kelly, and good luck in your career. Any other questions that you guys want to ask? It looks like Alicia is typing something in. Maybe Elena, it's got, it looks like two people are typing. So, we can see if they've got a question for you. Sure, I'm more than happy to answer those. Well, I also just want to say, okay, or Alicia says, okay, you already have your bachelor's degree in library science and media, but you're having a hard time finding a job in the public library. You know, yes, I think your degree helps, I think your degree helps, you know, it shows a commitment of you're taking your bachelor's, you've completed your bachelor's, and now you are in the master's program at the iSchool, and I think that definitely helps. You might want to talk about maybe when you're going in for interviews or doing your resume, maybe beef up a little bit of things in order to provide a continuity of work that you did in library science and media for your bachelor's and how that's kind of playing into the story of getting your master's at the iSchool, I think it definitely helps. Again, if you're having trouble finding a job in the public library now, plan on doing the Info 294 class. Again, things go up and down, you know, the internships are great. Really, they're just really amazing. My internship, again, I wish I had taken another one. And you'll find that jobs are opening up now. I just saw like there was eight community college library and positions, there's actually four going on now. We just hired for two library assistant positions. There are other library assistant positions that are opening. I know it was kind of dark times before, but things are opening up now. So I just want to give you those words of encouragement. Yeah. And again, talk to Jill and whatnot about more job openings and how to get more career development. It looks like that might be it, Brian. Okay. Well, I hope you guys took something away from this. And again, my email is up there, so feel free to email me. All right. Thank you very, very much. That was super helpful. Oh, great. I'm glad to hear that. Again, thanks for allowing me this opportunity to give back. It's been very... Absolutely. Appreciate your time tonight. Okay. Thanks, everybody. Bye-bye, everybody. It was great talking with all of you.