 Great seeing you all and having a full committee with so many enthusiastic folks First item of the agenda is the call to order which I have done and it's now I need to ask the secretary for a roll call That's not my good side So roll call board member look talk here Board member Neely here board member quads here board member sanders here Board member see here vice chair Dikey dyke yeah Since we haven't been here quite a while and we have some new members Would you like to start with us go around in a circle I'm our I'm an environmental consultant Beyond this committee for I don't know quite a few years now and I'm happy to be here I'm Vic Liptak. I've been in architectural education and academic affairs for a very long time and And I'm on the design review board and so I am here by virtue of that and really happy to be here I should have mentioned I'm an at large right Kevin see at large as well I teach at the junior college chemistry and wine chemistry if anybody wants to learn to make wine we're the place and I live in the Southwest. In fact, I live about a third of a mile from item two on our agenda So I probably need to recuse myself Actually, don't I just got word. Oh really good. All right. Never mind I am Susie Murray, I'm a planner here for the city of Siena Rosa and current development Excuse me, and if you ever need anybody to sample that wine, let me know And I'll be presenting the first item this morning, but I'll wait to introduce that until we make our way around I've been with the city since 2006. So I'm Lonnie. I'm the reporting secretary here as well as for the design review board planning commission and a lot of other boards I'm I'm in secretary in planning And good morning. I think I know most everyone my name is Amy Lyle So I manage our long-range planning team So at the city we have two teams the current planning team and the long advanced planning team, but I call it the long range County talking Well, sometimes people don't know what advanced planning really means so yeah But yeah, so my team works on all the policy for the city and the current team works on all the projects that come through And uh, yeah, happy to be here and I'm your liaison. I'm your staff liaison to the waterways committee I'm Darren Sanders. I am brand new to the planning commission and even newer to the this committee And I'm really excited about being here. Thank you Carol, it's about eight plus years on the park and rec board and five years six years maybe As the park and rec boards representative to this board And also possibly too active on the principal morial greenway My name is mark neely. I'm an at-large member like art been here for a number of years now And uh retired geologist and I'm glad we have some new members on the boards. Very exciting Anywhere about the water quality control board as I recall quality control board for 30 plus years I didn't know that Steve or Benowich I've been On this committee prop. I think since its inception I started being involved in the community with the principal morial greenway and the committee for restoring centers at creek which led to the master plan for centers at creek which led to the master plan for some waterways And so I used to be wow. It's just feel good having what you all hear It's a great group Okay. Can we can we do the staff behind you? Oh, yeah, of course Thank you Please Hi, I'm sobby. I'm a stormwater creek center All right, I'm steve kate katey And I'm a senior in fire mouse that specialist in our water department stormwater and creeks team and we're We're really here to help answer questions on creeks and usually we'll have items from time to time And you have something to do with creek restoration too Oh, yeah All kinds Freaks and other random environmental issues that come into the city. Sometimes that they don't know where to set Kyle slobber environmental specialist Steve and claire on the stormwater creeks team with city, but I also coordinate the creek stewardship program All right, I managed the stormwater and creeks team So now it's all the work that steve and kyle and others are doing on creek restoration and creek stewardship And then our team also manages Our municipal separate storm sewer system ms4 ms4 Why don't we keep going over here and I'm presenting good morning everyone I'm jenna briscoe. This is my second time presenting front y'all and i'll work with the current development team And so i'm excited to be here in person y'all And you gentlemen here here Item two What were you doing in track 400 and 200 oh man, so you got to be fast He was actually asking for your time What were your times in time? 8 and 21 I'd be happy to do hours for me You're nationally ranked right like yeah Nationally ranked and he writes he's ridden his bike to work every single day since he was howled or school says 2020 Well, I have to read something here. I have my duties here The city santa rosa is committed to creating a safe and inclusive environment We will not tolerate speech or actions that disrupt a public meeting When we perceive as aggressive demeaning or harmful towards staff and applicant team or other meeting participants Staff will be monitoring the meeting and ensuring that everyone is participating respectfully If staff determines that a meeting participant is acting on a disruptive or disrespectful manner They will first be muted and given a warning If the behavior continues, it will then be removed if necessary. We will also end the meeting If participants have additional questions or concerns, they should reach out directly to project planner or the applicant team Okay, moving on now. It's time to ask for public comment on non agenda items We're now taking comments on for our non agenda matters It's time when any person may address the subcommittee on matters not listed on the agenda Which are within the subject matter jurisdiction of this committee If you're in person and you wish to make a comment, please raise your hand We have only one person participating So If you're on zoom and you want to make a comment you can raise your hand by selecting to raise your hand icon If you're calling in, please press star nine For the caller who just joined us. We're taking public comment on non agenda items Chair ribbon, which there are no hands raised. Okay So the role of the waterways advisory committee is to review development projects both public and private That are located at the jason creek and a lot of ways for consistency with the goals policies and regulations of Creek side development identified in the center as a general plan zoning code design guidelines And the citywide creek master plan While the committee does not take formal action on projects it does provide All development projects located adjacent to the creek or waterway are required to be reviewed by the Waterways advisory committee prior to proceeding through the entitlement process Time for committee reports. I do not have one to give Does any other member of the committee have any reports at the moment Okay, we'll move on to the planning and economic department Great. Thank you so much I'll do this before We move on to department reports. We do have item 3.3 Let's start with vice chair election But because We haven't done our chair election yet. We're going to continue this item to the next meeting Now that's one thing I was going to note is that we did Get word that the mayor does not need to appoint a chair so that our committee can appoint a chair So we'll do that at the next meeting And part of that I know we've been hoping to have a field trip And we weren't able to do that in may this month. We had a lot of items So we thought in person In a room would probably be easier. So we're hoping in june That we can do the field trip. We do have to do the chair and vice chair election But we're hoping we can do that in the field. So we'll just we'll have to figure out how to facilitate that well Without a meeting space, but I think we can do that and still be able to get our Our um to our accomplish that um, steven team will be leading Um, so beyond that I don't have an apartment reports Okay, uh, do we have a report from the water department? Yes, we do And members of the Committee, I wanted to give a quick a quick update on our lower cold creek restoration project project So for some of the new members on the committee, this has been a long-standing project within the city for over 20 years And we're planning to restore about one point Cold and creek and this is from lc allen high school area upstream from Is it 1.3 miles in length? So it's a complete channel reconstruction uh enlargement of the channel and A critical component of the project is the original channelized creek was only sized to carry the 25-year flood So our project project will expand it and stream habitat carry the 100 year flood and uh, we have we have Divided the product project up into three different phases and phases one and two are complete Which is great and we have one one more phase to go but uh phase two has really been completed since the last time We had a meeting in person anyway So that was completed in 2022 with all of the planting that was about the 2000 feet Long stretch of the creek at the upstream end and phase one was near lc allen So now we have phase three is like is the gap in between phases one and two and also With phase three, this will include a future city park will be adjacent to it It's actually not part of the creek product project, but it'll all be connected. Uh, so that'll be a great uh A great product project there once we can get our creek work done and then uh, eventually that part But again phase three will be a complete channel reconstruction Realignment and what had happened when the creek was channelized the creek was realigned and it was actually lengthened Which is pretty uncommon for a channelization. Usually they're straightened and shortened But in this case, I think it was moved to kind of be out of the way so We're trying to actually shorten the creek a little bit and also add habitat there and it'll also include a bridge a paid trail It'll be a great space for the community once it's all done And then some big news on phase three because we are gearing up for construction of that probably in 2025 so We were able to get a grant from the open space district for acquisition of the last Land that we needed for that. So it's up to 1.5 million dollars and We have actually already acquired the property and now we're going to be working with open space to get reimbursed for that And then we also apply to the urban streams restoration program from california department of water resources and they have funded the first two phases and we were uh I guess I'd say somewhat surprised but very glad that we're ready to get Actually you were funded No, this is for phase three for the future phase. So we we were we were funded with 4.4 million dollars towards construction so Usually grant awards are more in the neighborhood of a million dollars and We we we apply for all of the money that we needed for the project and we got back the largest award in the state I think the next largest one was a million dollars and only two projects were selected on the first round And we got 4.4 million and up in truck. He got like a million dollars. So So that really helped us and now you know construction is It will happen in 2020-25 and we still have about a million and a half Collars out there that we're looking for other grants and one That we're looking for is the california wildlife conservation board. Is there that's under california department of fish and wildlife? so We'll see if we can get some additional funding, but we also have a parcel assessment here in santa rosa that goes towards creek restoration So we can use those funds, but we're trying to get some grant funds So then we can use our in-house funds for other projects other projects going forward. So Excuse me. Is there a grant writer or a team effort? It's our team. So we could Emotions or razors So working on that too And uh, you know, I think it'd be great to get you all out there for a field tour We can look at phase two look at the future phase phase three. So we'll be looking at that for june or soon And we'll do that With that, I think kyle jimmy. He was an update on priest Stewardship program. Yeah, can I ask a couple questions of you before we move to that? Um So the hundred year storm, um What were the the past rainy season? Did we have a hundred year storm? That's the first question We actually did not. Yeah. Well, what was interesting october 24th of 2022, right? Yeah Think if you or no 21. Well is what the day one was but we actually had over seven inches of rain in 24 hours in santa rosa, which was Very large, but what had happened at the time? Everything was very dry So if we were to get that over seven inches of rain after everything was Hatterated, I think we would have had a lot more issues throughout the city But we were kind of fortunate it came early in the year But that was when our phase two private project was constructed Uh, we got out of the creek october 15th and then october 24th We got hit with a very large event, but really we had a few minor issues within the project, but uh, Okay, great and then the park, um That's to the north of phase to northwest of phase one, right? It's in that new development area, right? Well, it'll actually be adjacent to the future phase three So right it'll basically feel like the creek is part of the park Oh, so it's not the other park that's proposed in that so it's it's a different one. Okay. All right, great I think they're calling a linear park. They're a lot. All right, beautiful. Thank you Steve what's the how did colgan creek and rosland creek compare and flow? I know colgan creek is basically the next one south of rosland creek, right? Doesn't colgan creek come does it come off of taylor mountain? It does. Okay So the flow is probably a lot higher than rosland creek Yes, it is and really rosland creek now really begins at the tracks at the Hard tracks is really the beginning. That's the headwaters now. So I think historically it probably Came a little bit further to the east Thanks great uh, we'll allow chair benowitz and committee members Um, I did print out just a quick annual summary from the 2022 year for a creek sewage programs We haven't met once so So it's pleasure being here I've been with the city now just over a year And it's been a real pleasure to be a part of this Continue building and also just maintaining the great program that alistar biker After his retirement so You know, we did see a dip in participation and Both volunteers and ours and we are able to operate during the pandemic, but thankfully we have returns to those pre pandemic Participation volunteer hours. So it's been great to see In 2022 we partnered with new earth agencies and volunteer groups volunteer individuals throughout the community Um to do 348 educational and stewardship activities throughout the city Including the 132 event events and presentations 70 frustration and the monitoring days And 146 volunteer cleanup. So it's been really great And very busy but very great to be a part of all the great community effort there. So One of the highlights when we haven't met since Creek week which was last september, but that was a really great event for us We had over a hundred or sorry over 250 people to participate in week-long activities We had two different underground tours that were the underground cohorts ago beneath our feet right now We had a creek cleanup to kick off the week which was great and that lines up with the coastal cleanup day Um as well Um, let's see how we did a nature walk along stream side drive Which is a restoration reach that we're going to work on for a handful of years, which was very popular as well And some tours out that we're going to treatment plan. So we just had our first meeting for 2023 creek week this week Um, and we had you know great success and a lot of interest in a lot of those events We actually had Over 190 people wait listed for the underground tours that weren't able to make it So to try and increase the number of tours that we're doing down there since it's obviously a hot ticket item Um, earth day we also had an earth day The events there at courthouse square Maybe I'll keep the people show up for that so it's great I'll be able to work along the creeks and then walk along to be packed up to join festivities down the courthouse square So that was a great event Um, so yeah, there's it's been a lot of great partnerships. We worked with Parks and Rec on an arbor day event To plant sedges and things along the creek on pomo creek at northwest main park And partnership while they planted trees So lots of different events looking forward to continuing to expand the program in new ways in 2023 Hope to see somebody out there and some of our backs in the future But you would would you like to have a booze at the Wednesday market? Oh, we're working with stormwater actually a way of partnering on a Yeah, thank you What are the dates for creek week this year? Great question. Um, I believe it's september 16th to the 23rd Thanks I was able to participate in the arbor day event out at northwest and after we planted our tree Going over to the creek and seeing michael there and all the little plants It's like, what are you doing here? We're actually working together. It's like, whoa It was very cool to see the two departments doing the joint. Yeah, they've been great to work with so I look forward to continuing to expand that partnership with the board. What were those dates again to move 16th to the 23rd and we'll be sending out last year. We did bill inserts and posters and we'll We'll have a decent amount of outreach. So that that'll come in the next one person Let us know how we can help too. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Great job So I just want to add, we did a staff cleanup during the week during Which time one day I had three different spots throughout the time depending on where city staff were working Had a great turnout told, oh, we had a lot of fun too. So staff had a great time And so y'all are always welcome to join us for any of those events Yeah, those quick cleanups are fun. Very wonderful community about Carol is a regular I show up sometimes and it's really wonderful makes you feel good doing something Any other questions of our wonderful team we have here? Great report. Yeah, wonderful Okay, we're going to move on to our first scheduled item, which is the cannery at railroad square And we're not taking any action on this item But we're going to hear a first to report from Susie Murray and then the applicant if they are here The applicant is attending remotely But before I introduce them, good morning Chair Rubinovich and members of the waterways advisory committee Before I introduce them, I wanted to give a little background of why we're here back in 2018 We the the senate bill SB a senate bill 35 was introduced and that was a a bill that allowed a streamlining ministerial process for affordable housing projects Concurrent with that and seeing it, you know, heading our way city of santa rosa adopted our Our design, what are what are they called the design design objective design standards zoning code chapter 2039 And and that allowed us to to say, okay, if you if you meet these standards Your project can take advantage of this process. So Um, the we had several developers come forward four projects were approved through this merit ministerial streamlining process All of them meeting not just the objective design standards really city design standards as a whole Um, we were limiting to in time part of that process staffs review time for at least this project was 90 days It changes depending on how many how many units are involved So we had 90 days of review time To get through this project and it's not just what it looks like when it's an entitlement project It is a project that is really 90 percent. I think are 80 construction plans And that's in terms of the building of the site site design and And all of the streets and the plumbing and yeah all of the infrastructure So it was quite the task, but it was very fun and we worked very closely I know steve was part of part of the review for this This project and as were several other staff members and it included people from parks from Water from stormwater and creeks from traffic engineering development services building fire Every planning everybody got involved in this so Um We have a website for these by right housing projects, but other than that there's very little public Um involvement So after of course when the projects were improved and now that some of them have started breaking ground staff has started hearing from both members of our boards and committees, but also the the public and so We thought that the best way to um address some of those was to have one of our applicant teams Come forward and explain their project and and let us know and so You know, we were we didn't go before the design review board for concept We didn't go to the cultural heritage board. We didn't come to the waterways advisory committee Nothing. This was all done at staff level So I let's see, um, there these projects are located at various points. There's uh one down in the roseland area There's one at the old senior, um, how are the senior, uh, center down on bennett valley There's one out on the corner of calistoga and highway 12 And then there's the one that's about to be presented to you The cannery at railroad square and that is of course, uh, where those those beautiful walls are being preserved as part of this project So but before I introduce them, um, I want to say that um I just want to give a shout out to the team this this team Was such a pleasure to work with through the entitlement review and it got, you know, it was pretty intense We have to do this we have in order to meet certain requirements Things had to be changed and what have you they were always amazing to work with and they have risen again When I asked them to do a presentation for three different Fords or two boards in a committee to explain to everybody what's going on So I really want to let them know that how grateful I am And introduced them michelle gervais and don lusty will be doing the presentation But I don't want to miss a shout out to Mimi Sullivan Who was the architect involved and she was at the other two meetings and had a conflict today So as soon as I figure out how to get my presentation up, why do you help? Um, I'll let them take it away, but I'm sure I know michelle. She'll probably have an introduction to Well, um, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here and um, first of all, and I'm sorry I'm not there in person, but I'm uh with you in spirit and I'm looking at Steve way down at the other end of the table Okay, thank you that um 25 it's been a quarter of a century that this project started. I wasn't involved in those very early days, but um This grew out of a grassroots community based downtown revitalization project That hosted a root at regional urban design assistance team Became city vision and then main street and so many eventually the downtown station area plan came from that and other things and um, and so there has been a tremendous amount of community engagement including visits with waterways advisory committee and a couple decades ago and and uh And different boards and commissions But before we get into the project itself and not to sound like a total love fest, but it does feel good Your staff is awesome. So uh, just want to read and I'm sure donna is going to be nodding You'll see his head nodding. This was a project that was uh in the entitlement queue for different phases of partial demolition and different entitlements and ever since 2005 and um, and this Last round, which was obviously very different um Was really important for so many reasons and your staff handled it beautifully And they they had the benefit of good tools that were created by all these public processes that have been going on for a while And so your work as great volunteers and staff just know it it does come together And so this is a project that I think might Showcase some of how that works. Nothing's perfect, but this is pretty darn good so, um The cannery at railroad square, uh, you probably know the two uh brick called plant five Which had the blue band across the top and then the cannery and there are two Buildings that have been there since um right after the earthquake of oh six and Those two buildings abutted each other So they created a wall between third and essentially fifth street Which doesn't go through to the creek as you know, but it was um one long building with a really long cannery Uh, what's that? I love lucy show of the chocolates, you know, it's like one of those conveyor belts And so the fruit would go down through this line between the two buildings And um, and then over time it became other things with the leather goods Shopping in the plant five building and car storage and JC set storage and other things in the cannery building the brick walls to the south along third street and And and there it sat for a really long time and then on the heels of this You know look at downtown Somebody had you know, there was a collective vision like let's go through the creek you know, this is about the time all the creek stuff was coming along and um two really decent men Uh got their families together and invested in these projects in oh eight. I think they closed. Sorry. Oh wait wrong century 98 and then uh 99 and then eventually Went about trying to figure out how to they they're People that did affordable housing and how do you create affordable housing in these neat old shelves? And that'll be so important for this downtown well Very long story kind of short There was uh some recognition I thanks to the regional water quality control board and jones fleck is a name that I think you might recognize some of you She was very helpful Very clear and saying are you got some problems? And here's what it's going to take to solve them and ultimately those buildings had to be basically scraped out So that the historic wall was remaining that was the contributor to the historic district but the um But they could get to tanks. There were certain tanks underneath the buildings that were not showing up on sandborn maps and other things So basically there were there's a lot that had to be cleaned up along the site to benefit the creek And so that did happen Those were approved for demolition in uh 2005. They were demolished in 2006 and in the process of that There while those two buildings had abutted The vision to connect to the creek were required that's about 40 feet Be pulled back from between the buildings And be essentially dedicated to a public right of way which uh john stewart being really the lead visionary he He let off with that idea and and it's still owned by the by these folks, but it's um always been visioned as a connection to four street An extension of four street connecting to the creek So um with that kind of as a as a foundational idea and the design Then the project was Developed in concept And we'll review now what it is. It has had different variations on the theme lots lots hundreds of variations on the theme but it's always been housing and uh different levels of affordability and um And so maybe so that that's kind of a brief history. I'll just mention the water tower too That's a feature that many Love as do we it is um an historic structure. We consider it an historic structure. It's listed in the report and it is anticipated to be resurrected restored and resurrected in proximity to where it was historically which is What is basically along the four street access maybe slightly to the north? We'll wait and see it ties to the what's known as the plant five site, which is the Um 60 west six street is the address and it's the one in the middle next to the plate directly next to the playhouse and so that will be You know, we'll see the the community I think has some ideas of where that should go What it should be on it and so forth and we're amenable to all that but that's um something to look forward to It's not part of this first building phase And so that's a bit of history unless um when it introduced dawn lusty dawn lusty is magical He somehow found money and a wellspring of patience to keep looking for funding and get this project done He's the project lead with the john stewart company and without him there would be no project so And I should just mention for those um a steven particular you might appreciate this Just a little heart-rending account John stewart who was just an amazing man He passed on about two weeks after this was entitled. So we're so grateful That he got to see that So now it's under construction and our architect is at a construction meeting right now So we think that's a good sign and she sent her regrets for not being with us, but um Let's let's move through the project itself and then we'll take questions So the cannery at railroad square and don why don't I let you talk from here? I think um don's trying to get his system that the the noise sound quality Um, so I'll go through this list real fat these are the this is the project team Um, I think I'm calling in. Um, we just went over to let him in Oh good. Okay great And I don't John go ahead and try to call Any Is he there? Good morning. Can you hear me? He can Okay, great. Uh, good morning chair members of the committee and Lota Susie our our favorite city planner Really a pleasure to be here this morning and I'm just going to talk Briefly about the project and give you a little background about the Project uh misdesigned and who we'll be serving in this project This slide shows the development team which We're a John stewart company is the developer site and Sullivan of the architects Carlisle Macy is our longtime civil engineer as well as the architects Some of these firms like Michelle have been working on this project for I don't know 15 or 20 years. I'm I'm sort of new to this project. I've been on it five years. Um So it this is a really exciting moment for us And I don't I don't know if anyone's been by the site, but there's a lot going on. It's really exciting to see Our landscape architect, um, is pj mid state is our construction. They're located in Petaluma and they've been terrific and real supporters we Well, we have services provided by a firm that we've used a lot called life steps and they in particular will be working with 33 units set aside for formerly homeless Families who will will be living at the property And then we have local funding from the Santa Rosa housing authority And also from the state department of housing and community development Which includes the 15 7 million dollar forgivable loan for this project Right Here's the timeline we We received our entitlements in august of 2020 as since you mentioned We closed our construction financing on halloween day of last year and uh construction is expected to go through early 2025 and then Full occupancy later that year Like this just gives a sort of basic Snapshot of the of the of the property and and who will be will be serving. It's 100 affordable There are 129 units one one staff unit and as I mentioned 25 percent of the units are set aside for families We're formerly homeless and we've received project based section eight vouchers from the housing authority for those folks They'll pay 30 percent of their income and the balance of the rent will be paid through the section eight voucher program You can see the monthly rent on 993 to 2053 ends on the unit size and there's a fairly complex set of funding requirements that um That restrict incomes in various units the various Um various limits referred to as AMIs area meeting the income and in this property Those incomes are 30 percent to 80 percent of area meeting income There are 52 parking spaces. Um, we have bike spaces And in addition to a community room, we have a robust joining outdoor space computer lab and um And we'll show you the we'll show you a layout of Of the The outdoor space to the back and then importantly we're providing a pedestrian corridor to To the creek from the new road Which has yet to be named. Um that we're installing to the east of our property between our site and The cornerstone site adjacent to the railroad station And And I wish our architect right here because she could be much more eloquent about the design but This essentially shows the The project at six stories. There's a lot of articulation This shows the loading dock and and the wall the wall have up lights on it I think it's gonna be really dramatic at night and beautiful as Susie mentioned The the design was dictated by a very strict set of design guidelines That were adopted by the city for this entitlement process Reply that she described. So this is looking Um northeast from the corner of third street and the new road that will that we're installing Next slide And this is looking my direction West west from downtown Um along four street corridor Well, that's looking from downtown across the railroad through the cornerstone site to our property The the um the water tower is shown here, but it's not going to be installed in this space It's going to be installed when we develop plant five Right next slide How big this is but this is the landscape plan and At the top of the top of the slide is the new road that we're putting in third street is to the right and then um The left we have the new pedestrian pathway and also the main lobby entrance to the building and so Susie showing you where the Where the pedestrian pathway is and then to the right of that is the The rear yard for the residents of the property. We have a dog run We have a turf area And then to the right of that we have some picnic tables And then to the right of that we have a wooded deck with a trellis Then that little and then to the right of that trellis. So you have that dark green area. That's a bioswell to Hold water on site in it and to allow to percolate it's Um It's landscape, but it's not really meant to be used. It's really a The purpose I mentioned and then to the north that little pink square is a taut lot adjacent to a laundry room So there there'll be a lot of eyes on the on the The creek and the in the pathway along the creek from the building You can't see it very well here, but there are two podium courtyards that are Going to be they're set up approximately 15 feet from from this landscape rear yard Approximately 20 feet up from the creek. So in addition to folks, you know activating this backyard The podium courtyards will be used and then there are units that face to the back And then there are all the units all the way up the building and I will say the building is stepped back um and that was a conscious design decision With regard to the creek so from the creek the the building is is is stepped back and it's not monolithic and then there are lights along both the pathway and some along The rear fence uh, they're pole lights. They're decorative. They're really nice. They're find Not to not produce light solutions. So they're pretty strict Rules about how lights work in outdoor spaces But I think um, they'll definitely be more eyes on the creek and they'll be lights with our nun now So I think it's going to be uh for folks walking on the pathway. I think it'll be a It'll be a nicer experience certainly units right now Next slide And these exist elevations, I don't know is um South elevation looking north towards the playhouse That's uh, that shows the The restoration of of the canopy on third street Next slide And this is the east elevation. So this is the long brick wall That will um, that runs along the new road that we're going Next slide Then this is the north. I'm sorry. I'm trying to get my orientation or this is looking This is looking south from the plant five sites Then next slide And this is the west elevation, which Is the elevation from the creek and it again it looks This this elevation isn't really By very well how the building is set back. Um, so that this looks much more monolithic than it really is Maybe don't I could just interject. Sorry Yeah So, you know folks there are basically three fingers of building So there's a there's a spine of units the the The face that is on the smart side overlooking the rail site is one long line of building and then from that are three Uh corridors so the south and the center and on the north And it's a double loaded quarter mean there's there's units on both sides of that and then between those three Extensions of building Are as open space and there's a podium. So on the on the top of the second floor Is um, there are two podiums one north and one south and they have different Um purposes different intended uses one's more Chill and one's more more mulling and um and there So it's a you know, it's it it will have a much you still get all these eyes But it will not be such a monolithic looking structure as this image would suggest It's those big. I don't know if you can point to them Susie with those two big sort of cutouts in the middle or set back Um, yes going up. Yeah right there. That's a podium and that's set back in the same here Those are the podiums that michelle was discussing Okay, um next slide Um, and we talked about this the brick wall is being restored and I will say it's going to be a lovely feature but it's a five million dollar feature which was It did not help us Keep this project You know original budget. I mean all in this project is the 95 million dollar project and there's nothing affordable about affordable housing people often play low income or the residents with the construction costs and Projects ended up being very expensive for a whole bunch of reasons. Um We're keeping the landscaping along the brick wall to a minimum. We have some I think some planters on the on the loading dock with some some sort of low grassy um vegetation and then on the on the backside, um Towards the creek we're we're planting um Is they are they almond trees? Olive trees, right? Yeah, olive trees to um Sort of harken back to the canneries originally used Then as I mentioned the water tower is is going to be installed as part of the plant by development and this, um Mimi's better at this than I am but um, we you've seen the the um the elevations for the four sides and and and they're really The design guidelines are pretty strict about you know modulation and articulation and materials and so it's going to be a really rich thought I think I mentioned the building steps back from the creek, um, and Three wings that sort of point out um, we went over the backyard amenities And um and the exterior metal stairs, which I think you could see in one of the elevations which are really cool Okay, I think there's one more maybe So the um So as I mentioned, there are going to be a lot of eyes on the creek and the waterway Um, I think we'll we'll be good at making a safer place for folks um, we're We're installing the the approximately 40 foot wide pedestrian pathway and then um The landscaping uh, we really try to keep in mind The the drought conditions under which we're all living um until well mostly living until this fall and in winter in this past one, but um so water efficient drought tolerant plants and the As you slope down to the creek from our building there's a bioswell which As I mentioned is landscape, but it's not really meant to be occupied um I think We see the rest of those. I think that's all I've got but we're happy to answer questions Thankfully, Michelle's here. She's much more articulate than I am. So Feel free to ask either one of questions Happy to be here excited about the project Thank you. Thank you very much So if there are questions, this could be the time I might add however We're really as a committee Our jurisdiction really is the interface between Development and creek so we could talk about senate bill 35. We could talk about Florida housing development We could talk about lots of things today And I would ask that we limit our questions to the Aspects we I just mentioned Um, but please go right ahead any questions regarding the development And the creek I was wondering if technology could get this to do a full screen up there So that we could see it it was it was pretty low that's borders of everything And I wanted to specifically get some more information on the Pedestrian access to the creek and how people would get from their particular units To the creek, uh, there's well, there are a couple ways the main way You can point to our go back to that slide and point just in the brown area in the top left That's the main lobby entrance Um What I do about her answer would be no Why we need architects, they know how to do this stuff Thank you Yeah, I mean can folks see that Yeah, the brown sort of triangular area to the upper left That's the main entrance into the building and so Folks could come out that door and then There's a there's a gate that will be open just to The left of that entrance. Do you see that dark line? It's on Can I read the line here? I can't see them. Um, it says Lighting gate at A public pathway. It's sort of up on the left. That's the that's an entrance that will be open to the public So residents can can come out that way to The promenade. Yeah, right right there sort of means that's to the left is the the main gate to the the pedestrian pathway and then if they're if they're in the in the In the backyard, there's an exit only gate that comes out the backyard and They could come into the pedestrian pathway from the south from the Yes, there that's the that's the the entrance to the west towards the creek and and folks could There's a if they're in the backyard, which is fenced They could come out the backyard to the pathway and then go back up to the pedestrian pathway North and go up the pathway to the new road route created Not sure that Describes not very well. I'm sorry don't have a pointer But there are number ones they can they can get to the pathway and see your pointer a lot of times So there is one there's this is the primary entrance Right and there's a gate over here that they can they can get into it's hard because I don't have an arrow here So it's in the general area and then there's a second secondary Access point for people that are in the backyard the backyard is the area that's behind the build in between the building and the creek And and they have that and I believe I believe that the project was also Members of the public will be able to access the promenade as well all the way down Up until Desk at nighttime the the gate will be closed. So that will no longer be an access point and that was That was agreed upon during That ministerial review process. So it will be for bikes as well as pedestrians It'll be close to the public. Yes, and I'm sorry Yeah, oh, sorry the promenade. Yes. Absolutely during the day and it will um be Okay, that's why I wanted to know. So if you live there, you can't access the Bath at night that I don't know. I don't know what the rules will be for the residents It's it's all part of their property and I'll defer to the applicant for that Other questions. Yeah You know, we we know a number we own a number of projects where we've created sort of You know on land on our personal public open space and it really You know, they sort of see how things go and if there are issues But, you know, we're responsible for that space and for the safety of folks and we have liability for that space. So It's, you know, generally envisioned is to say they'd be open dawn, you know, during the daylight hours But there's lots of other backyard space for the residents So I You know at night they'll certainly be able to use um, you know the picnic tables or the seating area on the on the wooden DACA or the The turf in the back for kids in the top lot Eric um Can you explain to me what a bio swell is such a great word? What is a bio swell? I notice that there's a I remember correctly. There's like a retaining wall around there and there's I think it's a 17 feet A retaining wall potentially There's retaining wall along the creek And depending on the elevation, I think the height of the retaining wall is 24 and 6 feet I think the That's because the grade is not the same along the creek, but the bio a bio swell is It's just an area that allows the water to percolate back into to the groundwater and there are Susie probably knows this better than I but there are there are requirements about Keeping water on site so you're not shooting water off of your parcel onto adjoining parcels That's you know, one of the issues in our built environment is that we paved over everything and so When we do get rain a lot of it, you know, runs off to the ocean and wherever it goes instead of Percolating bashing to the ground and so that's the purpose of a bio swell sometimes projects have man made person made Reservoirs, but this is not that this is I think I think bio just means it's sort of a natural The natural method of allowing water and percolating to bashing to the the ground water aquifers Just one more question. I was just going to chime in and say it's actually a city requirement It's part of our low impact development Requirement and it's there's it's very limited what types of plants can be planted in that area although I understand there are some that do okay And and it's one of the biggest challenges I think or one of the bigger challenges that this project faced because it's already in a A built environment and the state water board kind of midstream and this review process Changed what you know, what types of? BMP's best management practices were appropriate We're allowed And so yeah So I guess my question then about the retaining wall is a retaining wall, you know That's around the bio swell. Is that to level out the area or is that to actually hold something of weight? Onto that property, I guess it does that that wall breach and stuff oozes into the creek. I don't you know Forgive the novice question by it I think I heard some of that I think I mean I believe the retaining wall is just necessary due to the grade of the site Relative to the grade of the pathway Otherwise, I don't think we would necessarily have a retaining wall. I think it's required Yeah, and I I'm not the engineer either but I'll just wait um And I'm sorry. I cannot read this plan but um The retaining wall that I recall is the wall that's really around the perimeter of the site That is for the grade differential between the path and the the site more than the actual bioswale Right. If I'm not holding back any fluids or anything like that, it's about the land If I could um, so if you look at the The border there, then it goes into a light gray and it goes into a dark gray that light gray is really steep and so Darker gray is the actual path and if you think about that path going under third street You can see how much lower it is that retaining wall is because of that slope. Exactly. Yeah Okay, other questions Yeah Do you have another yeah, I do I just want to so the bottom left hand part That's the only Creek access it'll brown part right there that that's it right I wear reassurance that's the only that yeah, that's the only access from the creek to to the The promenade. Okay. Thank you Carol a follow-up to that let's say I live on the fifth floor Is that the top floor fifth floor way on what I'm going to call is the right side So I am about as far away from The creek access point is possible and my kid and I want to go play on the creek trail What's our path and how long does it take to get from our fifth floor apartment? To um to the creek well, I think you would Walk the length of the building to the corridor take elevator down to the lobby and come into the gate Okay. Thank you. Any other questions Well, I would just add though that if yet you could there are different ways it's six floors just so you know and You could come down the elevator Of your wing you're in that back corner and walk through the backyard to I mean, there are different ways You could walk out. There's a there's also a stair on the third street side the far right and You could go, you know, it wouldn't be the shortest but you could go around the building on the road and down I mean, there there are Yeah There's a stairwell that's right where it says secondary entrance Along the loading dock that there's a yeah, there's an exterior stairwell there to the left there the note for it and So it kind of depends on the experience you're looking for covered or uncovered It was a pretty long time to enjoy the backyard and the taut lot And and so if you go back to the left back towards the promenade There is um, and I think this is a fire requirement, but there is an exit Only gate from the backyard Um, I'm not seeing it, but there is a gate inside of the our friend's backyard that goes out to to the path it's a fire requirement and To the extent the you know, during the the hours of operation for the promenade you would you can come out that gate and just make a short jump North and then going to the promenade Thank you Questions by anyone Just really appreciate the presentation Very thorough presentation Yeah, we'll have comments in in a few minutes that I agree with you Um If there are no other questions at the moment and we will have time for You're going to open up a public input for this item And we're now taking public comments Right out there If you wish to make a comment, please Raise your hand you can do so by selecting the raise your hand icon if you're calling in please press star nine We do have one comment Robert can you please state your name for the record? I gave you a prompt to unmute yourself Hi there Good morning The in the presentation that was mentioned a fencing along the creek Um, what kind of fencing is that? It's you know, I I'm Really good question. I think it's an open Um, sort of wrought iron fence. I don't think it's actually wrought iron, but it's a You know a black sort of open picket um some kind of wrought iron like fence michelle is that That sound right to you. I was thinking with one of those powder coated metal Um, but but we could find out I don't recall but I I know it's not a solid fence. I mean, I know there are There are a lot of reasons for that So it's not a fence that folks should get through but it's a fence that there has visual access excellent, uh, also was mentioned, uh Trees we're going to be lining the creek Are the existing trees the oak trees that are along the creek right now going to be salvaged and cleaned up We Yeah, don't wait one sec, please Sorry to interject here. Um, but just a reminder the way how public comment works is Um, you can ask your questions. We'll go through you get a full three minutes. Um, and then afterwards Um, the applicant or staff can respond to your question So robert go ahead and please comment and ask whatever questions you have And then when your three minutes are up the applicant team and staff can respond Okay apologies It was just in regards to the trees that are already existing on the creek And what was happening with those? Is does that include your comment your set of questions? Yes, great And i'm happy to respond to that. This is susie the planner and yes Those those trees will be preserved As I recall and none of them will be removed and there will definitely be some cleanup as part of the construction Thank you Okay, um committee any final comments you'd like to make on this project please So i've been down there on my bicycle a couple of times and ridden all the way around I'm so used to riding my bicycle along the creek path And the last time we spoke I said, what's the footprint now that i'm down there and it is so built It's like this is the footprint. So I know how far this setback is in real terms I got a real new appreciation when I rode my bicycle along Third street and looked down on the project and saw the oak trees and eucalyptus trees and the depth it It's a fascinating project because it has so many different perspectives from the creek from the street And then from the residents who are going to be such an asset to cleaning up And in the lightning our santa rosa creek trail. It's very very exciting for me. I look forward to participating in it moving forward Thank you um, I hope the This I'll get a monitor asking or saying this but I hope the graffiti isn't part of the historical preservation. That's on the brick walls It is not it is not No, we're gonna We're gonna sandblast sort of whatever we can do it in historic brick to clean it without storing the brick But it will not remain and well, I'm sure there are various ways to sort of fight graffiti as I'm sure you know and you can either You know have a A sacrificial coat that you put on and then when it's repeating you take that off and reapply it or There are other protective coatings, but there will there will be no graffiti. We're not considering that part of the historic I just like to say thank you for your hard work your diligence your patience to the utmost in this development Michelle you've been there for so long in this project and This is really a tribute to Development along the creek here is a model development In terms of both the way it orients to the creek and the access I think it's a very important project and it's going to do a lot for the creek as well as for the railroad square area And I just want to say That I had met John Stewart and I found him incredibly impressive and I think this is a wonderful tribute To a wonderful man. So thank you so much Really fine job. Thank you to all of our city partners Santa Rosa, we work all over and Santa Rosa truly has been a pleasure to work with from Susie and her colleagues to the folks in the housing authority and so all of the other City commissions and members we've met so thank you very much for for being good city partners on this Thank you to our planners for a Very very thorough job With a new state law. Well, thank you all unless there any other question or comments I don't mean to cut it. I would take that the the street name is right itself at this point, right? Stuart Wayne Point good point. Okay. Thank you very much and thank you for your good work. Thank you Okay, and thank you to the patients of our Team here we're going to Yeah, we're going to move on to the next schedule which is the proposal for the heritage commerce project and Your jammed in here I need to say to introduce this We'll probably just take a couple minutes to get set up between planners here. Yeah Yeah, feel free to take a little break if you like the restaurants are just down the hall to the right Is that gate open? It is The street name That was really good I mean like And I like the sound of it because of the sanders That was my goatee The planning on the moon, you know Well, let's do it I don't think we ever I don't think we ever I think you go over there Yes sir I don't know Yeah I don't think it's full screen I forgot because is that from Adobe or can I go to PowerPoint? Oh, I just share a screen You can use the Yes Okay And chair do you want to reintroduce since we're back from Oh, I'm sorry No, no problem. It's a formal break Yeah, I'd like to introduce item 5.2 heritage commerce proposal and introduce Jan and the staff planner Thank you Thank you. Good morning. Members of the waterways advisory committee. Thank you all for coming today I'm jan and briscoe and I'm here to come I'm here to present about heritage commerce center located at zero north point park where The applicant is proposing to develop an approximately seventy four thousand nine hundred forty nine square feet across your building called heritage commerce center And you also see some of the some of the landscaping plants that they're planning on doing And this is the neighborhood of context and you can see this this building would be on two parcels and the parcel to the back is a budding rosalind creek And if I don't know if anyone is going to bring up concerns about setbacks, but this this particular parcel It qualifies for an exception under zoning code section twenty dash thirty point zero four point zero four zero three Where a fully channelized water exists structures may be closer to the top of the bank And here's the site plan right here. You can see that it's parking lots on either side of the building And I wasn't able to upload the landscaping plan but the applicant is proposing to put a Chinese pistachio trees close to life old Western red bus and the walk magnolias around around the site and the general plan land use destination is general industry and zoning is General industry that's that both both consistent and this the project only requires a designer for right now because it's over ten thousand square feet However, we don't know if he's going to need a conditional use permit because we don't know the uses that are going to be in there yet And so the planning economic development department request that the waterways advisory committee provide comments and direction for the Commerce Center located at zero north point parkway And the applicant team is here if y'all have any questions for them as well Okay, thank you. Would you like to make a presentation? Should we just have questions? I'll throw up the plan. Actually go to the next one be better. I'm going to steal some thunder but so I'm going to ask you on the one with the star and then also the one to the right side In the middle is the audience if he's from that company. So we're buying these two part. I call them two parcels or total six parcels but they're two Two projects. This is heritage 74,000 square feet and then coming up probably in June we think we're July July will be what we call north point Commerce Center very creative with our names This we're buying us to fulfill a need for industrial development or industrial projects in Santa Rosa greater Santa Rosa snowman County area Vacancy currently is around 1% for industrial products warehouse distribution light manufacturing that type of thing This this was the business part. That's what it was designed to do when it was first done originally JDS unit phase was the campus there Oakley was there in a lot of a lot of different other uses We have my civil engineer here you can talk through the technical points and we get into it but the idea is that we'll construct it if you go back to the site plan change and be great So we're coming off the existing court that's there. It's all existing stormwater systems where we're retaining and going through bioswales to treat the water before it runs into the storm existing stormwater system and then You know exit by that either into the creek system or into the into the stormwater detention system after that. So we're retaining all the water on site is the building is utilitarian and designed because we don't know who the tenants going to be. So you have to make it kind of as open as possible. We've gone through the first Planning Commission will design design design review we went through that and we had some good feedback we've beefed up the landscape and get some other things after that. And so we're working through design review process right now. So with that I'll I'll go for any questions or comments and my name is Jose McNeill not number two I don't Hey, um, Jayden agenda. Um, just so you know, we'd love to talk about setbacks here just so you know So the question is, um, you quoted the reference but what is the without an exemption what is the setback and then what is the setback that you guys are exempting the original setbacks without the exemption will be 30 30 feet I believe from the from the creek and right now I'm I'm not sure what the setback is for this particular Yeah, it looks like it's in line with the other development. Yeah, exactly. And I think from the top of the creek or the we have some we've swear setback. I think we meet that setback even though we could Because of the bioswell. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. I'm having visited the site. First I want to say thank you for cutting down the grass. The creek and back. I was going to ask the same question about whether or not it was the same setback to the creek as the other buildings. Pretty much. Yeah, it's because we have that dry while around because you have to be able to go around for fire You have to have I think it's 32 feet is that driveway and then we have the the berm against the building and then on the other side as well. So we're set we're set back in line with the other bull. Second is just a point of clarification. The current project and the one you have planned for June does that complete the build out of this particular runway for the old. Yeah, there's one across. There's one other piece across North Point Parkway. If you go to the on the corner, you can see the other the brown area there. Yeah, that's that's still available but it doesn't have any runway and then the only other piece that could be developed is on the upper right side there. There's a parking lot there. And that was that was impacted. It was developed for the J. S. Uniface campus as additional parking those type of things. There's some other easements addressed with that in a sort of a buts the residential there as well. But this, these will be probably the last two big buildings and big being 10414 and 74. My last question had to do with the landscape. Much appreciation for the Oaks. I'm not familiar with the pistachio is that also gets in the wheel. Whatever we do is in the wheel program for the water. It's efficient. So, do you know if it's California natives. No, it's Mediterranean and it's used regularly and landscapes around the city. Yeah. So I was not looking at the presentation per se but one of the attachments to planning watershed area, which identifies Santa Rosa Creek. Yeah, they're sorry, Rosen Creek, they're not Santa Rosa Creek as being slated for restoration, which would mean it wouldn't be channelized. And it is shown as a potential a restoration reach within the Creek master plan. We don't have any plans on there yet to be in the future and there is an existing paved pathway on the south side of the creek that will travel kind of west of this area and then there's the plan for a future bridge over the creek but it's away from the where that we're looking at here and just a little bit for context to you have the creek area and then the top of bank and then there's a little bit of room and then there's a gravel access road on the horse side of the creek and then several feet and then the fence line really like as far as Creek step backs go the top of the creek is quite a distance away. Right. So just kind of put that in perspective. Thank you Kevin. I believe there's a plan for a sound wall on the north on the north on the north point one. Because were you at the Yeah, because that was one of the one things that got brought up and so we're putting a sound wall over here the way this building is configured because the docs or the truck towards going to be on the side, not the backside. Okay. So it really doesn't have a need for that. But the north point one we bring in and you'll see we have a sound wall there. And so where's it so on here. And when you're talking about the other one. Okay, so this one doesn't have a sound. No, if we go to the site plan, you can see we have the building kind of wrapped around where that where that where any deliveries would be. Gotcha. Okay. So good. Well, that sounds good. I think hopefully doesn't sound at all. I live across the. And so I am. And right now what we look across at one of the existing buildings, and there's no sound wall, and there's very, and there's very little noise thankfully we didn't know when we moved in of course but. But what I like about that is it is it opens it opens up it opens up your vista a little bit even though we're looking at a wall we're also looking at trees. And if there's future restoration in the creek I think to the extent that we don't have. But the sound wall will be also some of this part of the outside as well so we'll do some. Comments on that one. That's right. I'm sorry. There you go. There you go. Yeah, forgive me for digressing. All right, thanks. No higher than 75 feet. It's fine. Describe the interface between your project on the creek is are these are fencing. Yeah, there'll be fencing along the backside there, just for separation and then as personal water said there's kind of a. Landscape area on the off our parcel than a gravel road and then a bank and then the creek so what kind of fencing argument is probably going to do chain link with slats, you know vinyl slats for privacy, privacy from just so that people can see in and out the creek. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I wasn't I was down. See, it's more it's more of a security thing is when you have it. You know, we do have people who want to run the creeks for nefarious reasons. So, really, the restructural and yes, and they're the same. The same idea we're going to do. Okay, I we're trying to encourage site lines between developments and the creek for the safety of folks, because you know people are down there there's isolation. That's when you get the problem so I do have a question about that. Anybody anybody have any other questions. As a follow up to that, knowing what the pre existing buildings have for fencing, because that is a long common would let us know. Number one, what kind of problems are already being experienced. Number two, what kind of fencing place. And at a future date, I would love to talk about the other side of the creek, which has a barbed wire fence between has nothing to do with your project, but the barbed wire between the park. And the creek was a little disconcerting for me, but that's a future discussion. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Other questions. The committee at the moment. We'll get to comments in a minute. And there are any members of the public who would like to speak. Yes. If you wish to make a comment via zoom, you can do so by raising your hand. If you're calling in, please press star nine. Right. There are no answers raised. I didn't think of a question. We can go into comments as well. Okay. Well, question is, if I read the reports, right? There was some potential for Tiger Salamander use of this site, none of the existing. No, we're in the CTS. Yeah. So we have we're mitigating for that. You are. Okay. All right. How does that work? Well, I could. I'll do the straight answer first. You mitigate. We contract the mitigation bank set aside. I don't know what it's two to one or three to one for the habitat that we then fund. And that's how that's taken care of. Okay. So it's a harder part of the all environmental CTS. And then there's there was point zero one acres of wetlands on the other project that we've also mitigated for as well. Okay. All right. Thanks. And follow up on that. If you read the creek master plan, the Tiger Salamander is all for the south and it's closer to Yuba Avenue where most of them congregate. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Are you able, I just kind of want to know what's current, what does mitigation fees were from a bank. I know they're really high. Yeah, they're really high. Walk them out of my mind. Comments about the committee. They don't have anything I'd like to say. Yeah. Um, regarding the fencing, um, it is additional cost to put in privacy slats and comment would be, well, maybe you don't need them. But if you do need them, you can always add a waiter. So that's just. That's fine. I know it's. What you guys, what we're trying to do is, is protect not only the tenant, but also, you know, sure. And that's, that's just always that trade off. Yeah, it's our interest as well. We want, you know, we're looking for a balance. And the other fences have the same slots. Well, they have, they also have, I think they actually have to your, the obvious a very high security place and they might even have some, some wire up top as well. And one of the reasons that there's not a lot of activity is they have 24 seven security than if you pull in and park and are there for a little bit, they'll come over and talk to you. That sounds like experience. Reviewing past projects has nothing to do with you or even your neighbors. Sometimes the fences that certain people build are not permitted are not to code and they do not get reviewed by the city unless there are complaints made. That's correct Susie. So it could be the Wild West as well. I should, I should have our contractor on this is deaf construction on a pedal. They're a union contractor just so it knows what we're doing. I've built about six projects of deaf content in the North Bay. So from Petaluma to Sonoma County. So they're good hands. Very, very good. In fact, they were a co co gentlemen contractor on the 40 inter stadium. Thank you. Any other comments? Any members. Okay. Amy, is there anything you'd like to clarify about comments? I think they're pretty straightforward. You have everything. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks everybody. Before we adjourn. So I just want to iterate again. And I know you're aware, but this is to staff. I just wanted to make sure that the level of detail that we're receiving in the staff reports as, and the new members won't see this as really shrunk. We, we used to get the pieces out of the manual. So the setbacks, it was all in the planners discussed that and it was very obvious and it was a clear point. So I just wanted to make sure that we were able to get that from the manual to this project. And I understand that there's a timeline in here where, where maybe we're in front conceptually before the planner has to look at it. But I just want to iterate that it's a, it makes it really difficult for us to properly evaluate and provide advisory comments. I think that's something that we've been working on for years before. As a follow up to that projects like this where it's surrounded by pre existing buildings which either rightly or not, I assume we're done code kind of help me is the isolated project. I'm thinking specifically of the new medical building on Brookwood, where the landscape plans were so in depth. That I think that was Macy Carlyle, they just gave us so much information to work with and to get comfortable with. For me, those are the kind of projects where the more information is better, as opposed to a fill in piece like this where you would tell us if there were other buildings already in violation of code. Right. Yes. Yeah. We know. Yeah. So we operate under the same, the same kind of assumptions as you do that if it's an industrial building that's built, it was built with permits to code. And it's also real important to note too that this is very early on in the process. We have not stopped, has not done an analysis of this project. Yeah. And that's why I'm suggesting maybe we're, maybe our timing isn't in the right place right now. Maybe we should come after you guys have had a chance to actually thoroughly to look at it. So that's what I'm. I think I was referring to a conversation that we had offline, but they, there was an effort over the last few years to really streamline for the applicants, but also for staffed. And I agree that it's difficult because when you're seeing projects they're almost at a conceptual stage. So it's before it's moving on to their entitlement hearings, and it is usually at the beginning of project phase. So there hasn't been that level of analysis and you're helping inform that analysis. So it is a little bit difficult, but if we move the review for your committee later, that may actually interrupt the formation of the project itself. Yeah. So it is a balance. So it's something that we've been talking about internally to make sure that we've, we've got the development track aligned with what's necessary for our processing and the streamlining, but also making sure you all have enough information to provide value to the process. So it's an ongoing conversation. So we're going to keep thinking about how to best address what you need and, and try to do better with the larger projects. We definitely try to bring more information. And especially if there's a landscape architect involved having them at the meeting. That one was further along in the process. I mean, let me just add that we've, we've actually looked at projects where we felt that the projects weren't fully developed enough and we've said we don't have enough information and we've asked them to come back, which, which throws a monkey wrench into the system to if we don't want to do. And so that's another part of the balance. Right. I think that came up with the stony point blacks housing project. Yeah. So that's something that we're trying to figure out about. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Can I look at that? Yeah. I was going to just to reiterate that I think looking, if we go back to the staff reports and some prior projects, the level of detail where it really is helpful where the, you know, where the, the laws cited in terms of setback and usually it gives us really exact numbers like it would be 30 feet, but in this case, there's an exception is 50 and this one is 48.5. You know, and because we're so creek centric, that is really helpful. Anything that impacts the creek, the more the more detail you can give us the better helpful it is. Thanks. Good, good points. Thank you. Other comments by anyone. Okay, with that, we will adjourn the meeting and the next anticipated meeting is June 22nd. Field trip. Well, we're going to try our best to do field trip. Yeah. That would be fun. And very exciting. Congratulations on all that progress. Yeah. 22nd. If we end up having development projects meeting you all that we might try to find a special date for a field trip and we'll schedule that through. Okay. So that's the only unknown at this time. All right, thanks.