 Good morning. Good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to the latest episode of Mentor Talks. My name is Asha Bay I'm joining you from the Office of Alumni Affairs at the U.S. Department of State in the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs Our office provides grant competitions and resources for exchange program alumni Mentor Talks is a professional development series for exchange program alumni and those interested in improving themselves and their communities This is your opportunity to talk directly with leaders and mentors who excel in their fields Today, we'll be speaking with two exchange alumni about infodemics and media literacy Michelle Chululipkin did a media literacy tour in Australia for the U.S. speakers program She is executive director of the National Association for Media Literacy Education Also known as Namely She launched the first ever Media Literacy Week in the U.S. and has developed strategic partnerships with media companies such as Reuters, Participant Media, Nickelodeon, and Twitter. She has also been featured on National Public Radio and Al Jazeera English as well as in the New York Times Dr. Ankara Dutta is an alumnus of the study of the United States Institutes for Student Leaders program, also known as SUSI He is head of the Department of Communication and Journalism at Gohauti University, Nassan, India He is a media educator by profession with 15 years of experience in several countries Along with many awards including the prestigious Indian government's National Science and Technology Communication Award Before we get into our conversation with Michelle and Ankaran, we'd like to hear from you, our online viewers Be sure to post your questions and comments on our page so we can share them with Michelle and Ankaran during this program Now let's turn to our esteemed guests. Michelle and Ankaran, thanks for joining us Thanks for having us. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you As the world fights the COVID-19 pandemic, it's also battling rumors and misinformation about the virus that may lead the public to believe and even take harmful actions Ankaran, in an interview with the Indian Express, you said we need to sanitize not just our hands, but our minds too. What do you mean by that? Thank you so much, Asa So with a sea of misinformation flooded around the novel coronavirus these days have been painted as a time of fake news and rumors on the social media So before going to answer your question, let me give just on the concept Let me discuss about the concept. So it is nowadays fake news has been very popular among all the people and it is basically Deliberative fabricated and published with the intention to Deceive and mislead others into believing falsehood and doubting verifiable facts. So it is there is a very Thin line difference between the different kinds of information disorder like misinformation, disinformation and malinformation So I'm not going to discuss about the concept of all these terms, but Fake news is like the umbrella term of all these different types of information disorder and so world scientists are still in a race to find a Coronavirus antidote for its cure since no antidote is available until today Maintaining hygiene and physical distancing is the only way to survive in this crisis and hence and it is as soon as must Similarly, we need to sanitize our minds too by verifying the facts of the information flooded On the different platforms of social media about COVID-19 therefore it has Become as in as important to flatten the curve of the infodemic as to flatten the curve of COVID-19 so that was my original concept that not only sanitize our hands, but also we have to sanitize our minds too Yes, and that's how you came up with that concept of infodemic versus pandemic The comic strip Yes, so basically in our Campaign that is check the fake so the journey was not so tough because lots of misinformation and information disinformation available in the Different social media platforms, but the most important and interesting part rather most difficult part For this for our project was to take the same issue among the people in the most informative Educating and entertaining way underlying the importance of awareness among the people on COVID-19 That was the most difficult part and we created to as as you mentioned that we created to Exclusive curtain characters or protagonists in pandemic and infodemic so beautifully both of them Beautifully represented by their own characteristics competing to each other Revolves around the issues being circulated as misinformation And both the character Pandemic is full of patient Confident as it knows that it has the power to destroy the world slowly and steadily One day or the other since no antidote is discovered till date But on the other hand infodemic may be characterized by overconfidence with the Mischief and stop born as it it knows all the tactics to bind the people into its clutch Stop one because its objective or virally effect message is pretty clear whether it has its antidote or not So that was the concept of creating both the characters infodemic and pandemic Right. Yeah, that's great Okay, and michelle speaking of fake news. You've been tackling media literacy for years And I know the topic of fake news often comes up during your interviews. Why do you say that media literacy is not fake news? Well media literacy is about So much more than fake news. So the constant use of the term fake news Has certainly opened a conversation But that conversation needs to move beyond fake news The information landscape is much more complicated than true and false And we really need widespread media literacy Skills to help people understand and navigate that So the fake news conversation is is really quite limiting and that can be dangerous because of the narrow context because A media literate person Wants to know more than if something is simply true or not A media literate person is curious and skeptical about all information and is consistently asking the question How do I know what I know? So a media literate person thinks about bias and perspective and representation And the economics and power structure of media and technology and journalism So they understand that all media are constructed for a purpose with values and points of view embedded in the content and so A media literate person Understands that people use their individual skills their beliefs their experiences to make their own meaning They understand that media messages are kind of built to influence beliefs and attitude and behaviors and values So my thinking is that you have to pay more attention to these broader ideas and media literacy skills than simply Identifying something is true or false And and the idea that we can kind of debunk something we disagree with simply by saying oh, that's fake news Is is really at best lazy and at worst dangerous really dangerous, especially for democracy Because we need to weigh We need to be able to weigh different types of information. They have different value, you know a post On facebook from a friend ranting is not the same as a researched investigative report You know, we can't make those equal All information isn't equal and there is a difference Between investigative journalism and a tweet and that's why media literacy education is so effective because it focuses on skill building and the skills that are needed to navigate the ever-changing world and You know this these skills have never been more necessary Because information is is there's such a fire hose of information coming at us every single day And especially at this time of a global pandemic where information Um, we're really our health is dependent on good quality information And we're we're inundated with information and it's very hard to keep up and that pace Really doesn't always serve us Um our social norms. We've really not caught up, you know with how fast the changes have happened in our communication systems and we're kind of Like I would say writing the rules as we go and this again is why media literacy education is so important And why my organization mainly Works every day to advance media literacy practice around around the country And I hope we get an opportunity to talk a little bit more about that but the bottom line is While the fake news conversation opened up or put a spotlight on important issues We need to think in broader ways and and ask more of ourselves than simply trying to debunk information Okay, and it's also um, it's one thing you also have to like think about your audience too. Um, absolutely Before we started this the live where I was talking with anchoring about How you know, they took their campaign not just on social media, but the newspapers to reach a wider swath of people and um How do you want to say anything about audiences because I know michelle's been on a speaking tour and you've spoken to Both adults and children And then anchoring you're also addressing like different groups of people in india So I think that you know, certainly, um audience has has many layers in the media literacy conversation because um when you think about media literacy kind of advocacy or Outreach you really do need to understand the different Audiences and and how media literacy education might might work in a very young student classroom to all the way up to senior citizens So you need to understand your audience and understand Their context and their perspective and and their bias about technology and about media and so that's really important But the other side of it is, you know, the idea of audience and authorship is a very poor tenant of media literacy education and to really understand the choices that media companies and tech companies and Even journalism outlets the choices they make in terms of the audience that they Have and also are seeking is a really important thing to understand In terms of the choices that they they make and how they construct their stories And you know, who they're trying to reach is a really important Question to ask to understand what their purpose is and what their intention is So audience plays a very big role in a lot of different ways with media literacy education Okay, thank you so much michelle and anchoring that we have limited time So let's get to some questions from our viewers Um, there's so much information about the coronavirus. How do you? escape from information overload Who wants to take that one? I'm I'm happy to start. Um, okay, so I would say that You have to take care of yourself. It's what I want to say More information doesn't mean you're more informed and that's really really important It is much more impactful and effective to choose Quality information over quantity of information to be totally honest My news consumption has actually gone down during the pandemic Probably because I know a lot of people that have been sick with it Probably because I'm in New York City, which is an epicenter of of the outbreak And I have found that keeping Up with the news It's been really difficult and so I've chosen my one or two podcasts in the morning and a check-in at night I've turned my notifications off There is nothing I can do in the middle of my day With the information that I get from news outlets. So I try to take really good care of myself So it's really about being intentional about the kind of news and the choices that we're making about our news consumption Because there is so much coming at us that it's impossible to keep up And we do have to think about our mental health and we do have to think about The stuff that's right in front of us, which is taking care of our jobs and our families and the people we love So my biggest recommendation to everyone is just turn off your notifications. You don't need to know everything right away Okay That's my advice That's a good that's very good advice. Yeah I'd like to add something else. Yeah, so Michelle rightly said that The first thing is that We have to filter Believe facts or distorted facts to get check facts Through media literacy. That is very very important and from our organization. Actually, we had we have a research team So we created actually two posters in easily before starting this campaign and We uh developed to uh to input the posters. There are five d's and five c's Okay, the five d's are discard unprotected stories. That is number one. This believe non-official stories discourage quick news forward dismiss photo photograph without verifying Develop critical thinking. So these are five d's and there are also five c's Cartel excessive news content. What we are actually discussing So we had to curtail excessive news content. It is very very important Then contact near and dear ones contain fear and anxiety And so as we say rightly said that we have to think we have to give more priority on the mental health in this situation And also create new projects new hobbies and card fake news infodemics. So these are five c's Uh, we we developed from our research team. Those are great. Wow. Yeah, I think you need to um Post those on our on our facebook page later. So everyone can remember them. Yes, please. Yes Okay, so uh, dr. Anchor and in your comments earlier, uh, we have a question from florans Who asks what do you think will be effective in sanitizing the minds? Mm-hmm See it is very very effective. So I would like to give you a few example Which are viral in the in the country in india particularly or in southeastern region, you can see So there are lots of uh misinformation like koruna zihad Koruna zihad is very very viral in the social media. I think you all of you know about the concept of zihad So it is mentioned about koruna zihad after the incident of me some is a routine in new day so there was a huge discrimination you can see In different parts based on the religion and that is why we just created one cartoon called Koruna virus is secular. It is not religious, right? So similarly, uh, meet about the date of Virus in the hot temperature then, uh, cow dung. It is very very interesting here Sorry cow dung and cow urine can cure koruna virus. Okay. So and again alcohol can also kill Koruna virus this kind of information which are available in and viral in the social media platforms different social media platforms. So So that is very very important that we have to sanitize our minds. We we we shouldn't believe whatever we receive And that is why I I would like to request all all of all the guests all the viewers here in this Program that avoid forwarding any message to anyone in in people in many people in india They start the day with forwarding hundreds of WhatsApp messages to many people and they believe they personally believe That they have been creating an awareness on koruna virus. But the result the impact is different. It is just the reverse This practice should be avoided No need to create awareness if you are unable to check the facts because distorted facts on koruna virus in for them Pandemic or misinformation in for them. It will harm people not serve the people Okay, so that is why we have to sanitize our mind. We have to think that before Forwarding anything before sharing with any other people with our friends with our family members We should be very very cautious that we should share that particular information or not and whether it is Reliable information or not Right, so we have to think through the information we're seeing and figure out is it reliable or not Before we try to forward it to anybody and if we're not sure don't forward it Yeah, well, I think it's simply if you don't have the time if you don't have the time assess the information Don't share it. It's not worth the share It's just not and that's also if you don't have time to so many people Look at the headline and that's something that we've noticed a lot and you really have to You have to recognize that headlines are created to grab our attention And that you really truly need to read the article and if you don't have time to read the article That's fine. But then skip the share Exactly. You don't read it there. Yes. I used to work in news and write headlines and That's exactly we're just trying to draw people in Yeah, you want people to read this and that's fine Exactly, but we have to know that and we have to be aware of that and we can't be Sucked into something that just gets us emotional and so we have to share it out You know, we really truly need to be more thoughtful Yes, okay. I think I have a question for you, Michelle educating children and youth on media literacy is important In light of that albina would like to know how can we teach media literacy at school? Are there any tools or best practices you would be willing to share? So that's a wonderful question and I can tell you that we Work every single day thinking about that question. How can we make sure that all of our students? graduate with the skills they need to Be successful in the world that they will someday lead So I would say that our membership. So we have we're a free membership Organization and we have about 6500 members around the us and around the globe And they are doing incredible work all over and I would first of all suggest looking at namely these organizational partners We have 65 organizational partners that are doing work in literacy in youth media in health literacy in higher ed in high school Like a wide range of organizations that are doing great work and best practices We also have a bunch of free resources on our on our website And if you become a member, which I said is free We share newsletters once Actually, we have three different newsletters and we send them all out once a month and they're just Chock full of resources research events professional development all of those All of those things that can enhance media literacy education So there is a lot of really good practice out there that can be used And can be brought to schools. Um, what I should say though in the us. We're not doing a great job in terms of Scaling, you know, we are working hard on that and working with other national Associations of educators to move that needle forward But we really do need the general public to push hard for media literacy education Not just informal education But also informal and then of course we can't forget the people that are older and out of education spaces on a regular basis that also need to be trained and You know understand these new communication systems It's very hard to keep up and we need to make sure that we think differently about continuing education also Okay Okay, so I have another question. Uh boon charot asks Why do some people think that the pandemic is fake and how does social media play a role in that? Anchor and do you want to take that? Yes, actually Because of only because of this fake news and rumor It has actually viral in many places that and also there are lots of Arguments on that right That whether it is created by someone or there are lots of issues actually and conspiracy theory so So many things available in the late nowadays and people are More cautious about to about to know about the origin and And also whether it is a rumor and whether it is originally it is happening or There are lots of issues lots of lots of actually queries Are there in mind of the people? So It is They have to I personally believe that being the even organization WHO so they have to go through properly the website and what WHO has said and also all the Countries they have their own Hilton family welfare ministries. So they This is another very reliable source of information. So all the viewers should also visit the family and Hilton family welfare websites of their respective countries I I have I personally believe that this is absolutely a fake news and So they shouldn't believe on that And it is a very crisis situation. It is not only a crisis or one particular reason But it is a global health crisis I would just add that I think if the question is why do they believe it Um, I think that people are very vulnerable right now and and people are very scared and We are scared. We aren't always fear is not a rational Thing that we can just Not deal with, you know, like it is fear is irrational and and I think that There is a lot of bad information out there And sometimes that bad information is very well done And so if you are vulnerable and you are emotional and you are scared And you're seeing information that you want to be true You are very vulnerable to that information It is a lot easier to be To want to believe that this is all fake than to believe that people around me and maybe my family members are going to die Right. We are dealing with a situation that is incredibly Scary and so I think people are Theorists and disinformation disinformation They are trying to eat away at those emotions They're trying to eat away at our fears and they do a really good job doing it So I think and social media things spread really fast Even no matter what the tech industry does to try to slow it down these systems are speedy and so I think um I wish people didn't believe it. I wish people um, you know It's shocking to me again as someone that lives in an epicenter of this crisis and have seen way too many people I love get sick But I also understand why people do and we just need to combat it as much as we can with strong um media literacy skills with evidence on the contrary with facts with science With expertise and we just have to fight as hard as we can against the misinformation and then that's going to take all of us But I do think that rather than getting angry at all of those people like maybe we need to have a little empathy Um because there is a reason and there is emotional reason why they're believing what they believe And so I'm trying to think about that a lot just because I I'd prefer that over getting really angry Yes, well, actually I have a related question on that from brandon Who asks do you have advice for quelling ad hominem attacks being used to discredit experiences particularly on facebook? I feel like I might be talking too much anchor and do you want to take this one? I just don't want to Yeah, miss. You can just uh I definitely I have another one for anchor in right after. Oh, okay. So so sorry say it again So oh yeah, so this is from a question from brandon who wants to know Do you have any advice for quelling ad hominem attacks that are being used to discredit experiences particularly on facebook? Well, I think that you need to um You know, you need to be careful about um Choosing the content that you're following and choosing the people that you're following and engaging with online So I think that you have while we want people to have different points of view and we want to be able to understand the differences Um, you know when people start attacking or getting really angry online. There's not much you can do there except disengage Um, and so I think that you have to really reflect a little bit on you know What it is you're posting what it is that you're um, you know doing just to take some responsibility And to look at who you're following and who who's following you and how much you want to engage about it Um, I think that you know, obviously personal attacks and and you know The trolling that we see is just they're horrible parts of the internet the horrible parts of social media So I guess I just always go back to you know be thoughtful be careful. Um, You know, but don't obviously um, you know Just shut off other points of view, but just be Be cautious. That's what I would say Okay Okay So what the question for you anchor in is from padmini She asks how can responsible media literacy reach the generation that consumes news through non traditional information platforms and channels Such as instagram or even tiktok Yeah, see uh tiktok, uh, more particularly that uh, it is the uh most active social media platform in the in the country nowadays in in india and Traditional media actually there are lots of information which are they always check the fact, right? but nowadays in the new generation they don't want to Get the information from the traditional media like newspapers and also the television channels I would like to say two things one is that there is a tremendous uh Cut of the newspaper circulation in india because there was a viral message Effect news was viral in the social media that Newspaper can also carry coronavirus. Okay. So after after that particular news. So lots of people they They didn't Want to continue with the newspaper. They didn't want to read the newspaper In the hard copy. Okay. So nowadays there are lots of people who Want to go through the newspaper in their online edition of the order internet edition But they do there is a huge cut of the circulation of the newspaper Then again, they're uh in the television. Also, we have more than 900 television channels In the country and out of them around 50 percent are on the news and current affairs So all the news uh television channels, they are also in the dust for their breaking news Okay, they don't also check always the facts I have I have particularly noticed that there are lots of news broadcasts by television channels And after that they also gave one notice that our information that that are their news which was broadcast It was fake news. Okay. So now the Students particularly the young generation. They do not want to listen to radio news They do not want to watch television news. They do not also read the newspaper They are completely dependent on the social media. Okay, so That is why the media literacy is very very important for among the youth among the young people Because they should know that what is a fake news or misinformation and what is a Are reliable news. They should know about the source of news. That is very very important among the young people I'll just add that I think it's really important to note that whether it's on tiktok or facebook or instagram Um, they aren't the sources of the news, right? There is a source that's posting on these social media platforms And that's really important to know who you're following On a journalism, you know, where where you're finding your information and the quality of that information Because the washington post has a great tiktok account. It's awesome. You know, so just remember that that That's this, you know, that there's still a source And social media platforms are not the source of information There where you're getting the information Yes, right. That's good advice. Yes Um, so I think we have like room time for maybe two more questions Uh, we have one from shin who asks does fake information contribute to the spread spread of the virus What's the relationship between the fake info and the corona virus? Well, I think that you we need to recognize that all information and all media messages impact us um, you know, there's a multi-billion dollar advertising industry that depends on that The media messages influence the way we act and the behaviors Of us and how we treat others all of that. So certainly Add information fake information misinformation Can not only mislead us to think differently. It can mislead us to act differently And you can see that right now every single day with the covid 19 if you look at simply Do I wear a mask or not? You know, there is overarching evidence at this moment in time that wearing a mask is a positive thing to do to stop the spread There is a lot of misinformation out there about not doing that And therefore if people listen to that There we're going to have a harder time stopping the virus and it's as simple as that So I think it is directly, you know information and media impact us so You there is an obvious connection and it's whether it's um during a global pandemic or not Media is influencing us and so we have to be careful on how it influences us. Okay All right, so we have here. Oh, yes Yeah, so uh, it is not like that uh misinformation or fake news has a very new thing But it is it is there for a long time is hundreds and hundreds of years Fake news are there, but the term was coined later on. That is a different case But uh misinformation or this information is always there But I personally believe that this is a golden time for all these sources of misinformation fake information Disinformation, etc because uh, the people are as missile said earlier that people are very much vulnerable at this moment Okay, they have lots of anxiety So they are they that is why some people also give some statistic pleasure from this Are creating some fake news or misinformation among the people so, uh, we have to very very cautious during this time and Also, I would like to request that young people more particularly that if they can Decrease the use of social media a little bit in this in during this situation And instead of that if they can watch a good movie or if they can read a book also, it will help with lots Okay, that's good advice and so we have a final question Sometimes I see my friends on social media sharing this info. You have any advice on how to respond? And they will start with anchoring Yeah, I think uh You should give A warning message to uh the original center Okay, that you shouldn't send this kind of fake news or misinformation Or after that also you if you continuously receive this kind of messages, then I think you should block the particular person This is a very straightforward very very straight advice to the uh, the people the young people particularly, yeah Well, I I think it depends it very much depends on what your relationship is with that individual person and what type and The level of the misinformation and disinformation that they are sending, you know, there's one thing to say You know, I heard if you drink orange juice, you'll build your immunity. Okay, that's different than sharing And alex jones conspiracy theory, right? Like there are different levels Of misinformation and disinformation. So I would say that I am often the media literacy police in my feed and oftentimes I'll share a fact check Um, if it's really if it's really dangerous stuff, I will send a private message to them That's always an option is just to send an email that kind of debunks it but not necessarily putting it out in public because you know, you know, what is the point of Getting into a real argument in public. That's you know, it It uh, escalates pretty quickly. So I would say that you can push back When you can and and if you have you know, you're right anchor and if you're dealing with really really serious dangerous disinformation That you feel is really harmful. Then you do need to evaluate that friendship On facebook like whether that works, you know But if you can have a conversation if you can share, you know A fact check if you can private message and say hey listen, this is what I read about this I think that's really um, that can be helpful people might be open And you know who the people are that are open And the people that aren't and so you have to choose who you're going to engage with and who you're not I want to add one more thing That uh, not not only in India but also in the entire southeastern region if you see that Digital divide is still there Okay, there are lots of people who are far away from the digital gadgets digital media And there are some people who are newly literate In the digital media. Okay. Some of them are they do not they they're unable to type even they only search the things Okay, they ask the question in the in the google Okay, so there are lots of people in that category and there are some homo digitalists who are very very expert in this in this field so uh before Replying anything or before Going to take any action. I I believe that you should check that whether the people is from which category If he is a very newly newly literate people then you have to advise you have to literate him that you shouldn't Forward this kind of message again and again because it will be very harmful not only for you but also for other people So in India there are lots of uh Nowadays their Administration has also taken some very strict actions and lots of people were arrested During this lockdown period because of spreading fake news So it is not so simple All of us we should realize that it is not very simple thing. It is very very important nowadays and the And the government and the administrative agencies They are watching on us. And so we have to cautious while sending any information or spreading any information Okay, well, thank you very much Michelle and anchor in you both give us great advice. Yeah, thank you for being with us taking the time And I think thank you. Sure. You're welcome. I'm glad to have both of you on here Uh, and I'd like to also give a big thank you to our online viewers for joining us and thanks for all your questions Um, I hope we we could continue the conversation on the facebook and that Michelle and anchor in can stop by and If there's any questions we didn't get to maybe they can um answer them absolutely, we great, thank you and uh Anchoring don't forget about your five d's and five c's Yeah, sure Great during this difficult you're welcome. Thank you During this difficult time, we encourage you to stay connected virtually and keep your calendar open for our next mentor talks in june When we speak with eca assistant secretary of state Marie Royce For more information on mentor talks and to learn how your fellow exchange alumni are dealing with the coronavirus Visit alumni.state.gov and follow us on facebook, linkedin and twitter Thanks for watching and see you all on our next mentor talks