 Um, Mr. Michael, uh, we went out to see our best names, and we spent a lot of time listening to each other. This is very, very important. I mean, but I don't think it's as important as the board. The board. The board. I don't think it's as important as the board. Who wrote your last name? Ah, so what do you guys all say? So, um, we don't know if they're all names, but that's the best. Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What? What? What? You don't know? You don't know? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So that's why it's. Gee, so. I, that's, that's my job. I have a hard stop at 5.30 because I have a cute thing, any chance you could push 8.10 to the front of the agenda? Let me try to write that down so I don't forget. All right, it is 5 o'clock. I will call to order this meeting of the Finance and Personnel Committee. We will begin with calling the roll. All there Falthy? Pazant? All there Flicky Paneski? Here. All there Pirella? Here. Mitchell is here and all there Ackley is excused. Will you all please join me in the pledge? The pledge is signed by the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, then barring any objections from the committee, we'll skip over item number 4, which is introductions of members and staff, and move on to item number 5, which is the approval of the minutes from the June 26th meeting. We have motion and a second down those minutes, seeing no discussion. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Chair votes aye. The ayes have it. The motion passes. Minutes are approved. With that, we'll move on to item number 6. With a note that we will jump to 8 and 10 if we start pushing a little too close to 5.30, but we have some time now and I'll talk fast. Item number 6 is our roll number 24 of 23-24, submitting for information that proposed 20-24 budget schedule and 20-24 preliminary budget fiscal factors for guidance prior to departmental budget preparation. I do have a two slide PowerPoint. If we can get it up. I wanted just to point out some key dates in the budget schedule. As we do not have an administrator right now, that is why the document is coming for me this year, but we will be having next Monday at the council meeting a year-to-day 2023 budget update brought to you by myself. And then we also will talk about some known factors that we will have for 20-24's budget as well. August 15th is the deadline for department heads to get their budget submittals into myself. And the following week on August 22nd, we will have a department head budget workshop where we will work through the different requests that have been brought to myself, I suppose, ahead of bringing it to the committee of the whole, which will be on September 5th for a workshop. We also have a potential committee of the whole workshop scheduled for the week of September 11th that's to be determined if needed, if we want to make sure that the discussion is spread out to maybe help with the amount of information that is coming to the committee. October 2nd, I do have it that the city administrator will submit the budget resolution that is me being hopeful and optimistic that we will have somebody here. And then another October 16th potential committee of the whole meeting, that's if there's additional discussion that is needed ahead of the adoption, which would be on November 6th. So I wanted to point out the dates just to make sure that this committee is aware of all of the dates, but also to make sure that you are aware that the changes in the schedule that I proposed earlier this year have been incorporated into the 2024 budget preparation. Additionally, I just wanted to bring up a little bit about what direction was given to department heads this morning at our management meeting. We have three kind of sections to the budget this year. We have the operating budget, which the department heads are to incorporate known increases to supply and contracts for 2024. For example, the one that I keep using is that the audit is likely going to increase several thousand dollars from one year to the next. So I would incorporate that change into finance's budget. The second portion of the budget that's prepared by department heads is the what I'm calling the additional needs listing. These are items that are not included in the base budget, but are items that are deemed by the department heads essential to basic operations. They will not be going into the 2024 budget until it is vetted both by department heads, which a recommendation will then come forward to committee of the whole, and then committee of the whole will discuss those listings as well. Of course, it is all dependent on how much money that we are going to have in the 2024 budget, but we are looking at making sure that council is aware of the needs that the departments are coming up with. Lastly, the 2024 to 2028 capital improvement plan is incorporated in the current 2024 budget schedule. So that is the third piece that department heads need to gather and get for the August 15th deadline. The other piece of the resolution that I don't have anything on PowerPoint 4 is the budget parameters. I will say that those parameters without the city administrator here, I did bring forward most of those budget parameters from previous cycles. The big things that are included in there are that the city is remaining in the expenditure restraint program, which is additional funds that come from the state with the budget remaining at a certain amount of increase. Additionally, the equalized tax value or tax rate, I should say, is limited to the amount of inflation for the year. So those are items that have always been in these budget parameters that I brought forward and will have as guiding principles for next year as well. I'm open to any questions and I spoke a lot, so thank you for your attention. Questions or comments from the committee on the budget schedule or fiscal factors? Are there perrella? Yes, so just two things. One is if you please don't mind sharing the the PowerPoint, I mean just the calendar in that format and then the the second slide, on the second slide, that is the on the needs, yeah, when do the department heads need to provide the additional need listings to you? Sure, so we have put an August 15th deadline on that, so they have about a month in a week to get those gathered. I will say that just because it's not on that initial listing that's turned in doesn't mean it cannot be added later, but that is the initial so that we kind of have a ballpark range of what we're looking at for requests. Can we then attend the first workshop with the department heads? So I would have to figure out how many council people would be interested in doing so, but I would I was going to ask as many department heads that are available come to the committee of the whole workshop that would be on a normally scheduled night for council. So then we would have only one workshop with with department heads and councilors. Potentially, but we do have an option for another one the following week as well. Okay, thank you. Other Faldi? Um, it got answered with uh Roz. Other flaky paneska. Thank you. I was hearing that there's 2024 to 2028 capital improvements plan. Will people on the capital improvements commission see that while it's being proposed? So my understanding is that um well it is in the full budget schedule. Let me bring that up real quick. So my understanding is that the capital improvement plan when we did the schedule change it will now only go to planning commission. I'm misstating that was the intention behind the budget schedule change because it was an additional step in the process so our ordinance requires it to go to city planning commission but then to come to the full council as well. So it bypasses so capital improvements bypasses the capital improvements commission. My understanding is that the commission no longer exists after the change. I can interject. I don't believe that the commission has been formally resolved yet but when we passed the changes to the budget schedule that combined the budget and capital improvements process into one that was one of the questions asked and it sounded like that was going to be the functional outcome of the new process. Although the mayor's shaking his head and I believe he's looking at me so in Chuck jump in so the the the capital improvements commission is it's there but it's dormant because on the with the council proving the new schedule the capital improvements process will be in conjunction with everything else so through the workshops through the committee the whole that is when the CPI will be coming to to the council members as well. So you'll still get a kick at the can and you'll get an overview of capital improvements for just not utilizing that committee anymore. Thank you. Does the cap the capital improvements commission includes people from the community does it not? Yes it includes two two citizen appointments. Okay so if those two citizens who have previously sat on the capital improvements commission want to kick at the can then they get to come where to comment. I would suggest the I would suggest the committee of the whole workshop would be the best place because it will be more of a a dialogue rather than it just being more of a form of court common council type setting so I would suggest that the committee of the whole workshop would be a good place for that. Thank you. And I'll correct my statement it is three it is two citizen appointments and one plan commission representative so it is three citizen members. Any other questions comments from committee members? If not, Elder Heidman. Thank you Chairman. In the past at any time are these budget requests going to be submitted or reviewed at a committee meeting before it goes to the workshop so that the various like public works when we see their budget we have a chance to look at it so it's one more time that we get to see those numbers that does that not happen anymore? That is correct so the entire council will get a chance to hear from department heads from all of the departments rather than just the ones that are committee specific so the intention with the committee with the change is so that the entire council is understanding and getting to hear from all of the departments on their needs rather than just specific council people to departments. And I understand that but in the past we did the very same thing only it came from the committee that went to the committee the whole therefore you the the committee members responsible for that budget had a chance to look at it they had a chance to look at it again and I always thought that worked pretty good I don't know why we want to eliminate a step where a committee doesn't get a chance to look at the their department's budget beforehand. So the intention behind changing to the schedules was so that there could be more council input throughout the entire process the understanding I was under when discussing this with various council people was that they would like to hear from all the departments so we are not doing the committees anymore we are going to do a more interactive committee of the whole workshop where you get to hear from more departments all at once. I understand that but I don't understand why it was taken out of the committee out of the actual committee because then actually even get even a more thorough look at that budget process I mean I understand how everybody wants to get their hands on this that's fine with me and I'm willing to sit through that too but at the same time we get even one more chance to look at it and yet we eliminate that because we don't even want the committees to look at the department's budget. That to me makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. So I'll just jump in with some comments on this one this is going to be the first new under first year under the new schedule that we've put together. The big part about not doing the individual committee review and just going straight to the committee of the whole was in the past it seemed like by the time even the committees are seeing the proposals it's the changes can still be made but it's the finalized version whereas hopefully by having a bit earlier in the process and having the entire council there the council can have a more hands-on role before everything is one finalized proposal but is it fine? I liked that aspect of it. Optimistic but if it feels like it does not work out as well as it could have this year we certainly have the opportunity to address that before we go through the budget cycle next year. Thank you. I actually thought about it would be good for the committees themselves to see the budgets. It doesn't preclude the committees from looking at the budget before they get here and I had asked the same question last year why didn't we have a stronger vetting and from my perspective if I'm sitting as a committee of the whole person I will look to the people who are on the respective committees because their knowledge base should be bigger than my knowledge base since I don't sit on those committees so I think it would I'm with Trey let's try it this year and it would be who the committee members themselves to know what's in the budget you know pick up the phone and talk to the the department head to see what the rationales are because I will rely upon them the other thing is I did ask last year and the response I got was this way the department heads only have to talk about their budget thoroughly once and everybody hears the same story which is probably a good thing thank you any other discussion on this one if not I believe we would be looking for a motion to file this one's informational only okay we have motion and a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it and the motion passes to be safe and if there's no objection we'll jump over item number seven and come back and take up item number eight first and seeing no objection item number eight is resolution number 25 of 2324 a resolution to authorize establishing an appropriation in the 2023 budget for grant funds received under the national council on ageing community livings COVID-19 and influenza vaccine uptake initiative for older people or older adults and people with disabilities thank you so yes we received this grant earlier this year from the ncoa I believe actually the first half of the payment has come through already so essentially with director Krieger's recommendation that we place most of the funds in contracted services for senior services knowing that those funds will be dispersed mainly the number one line item for grant funds is actually going to be to sheboygan county public health as we're partnering with them and their nursing staff to administer the vaccines and then also a large chunk of it is will be spent on advertising the vaccine clinics and a few other things did I miss anything Caitlyn okay questions comments from the committee so the funds are all restricted to vaccine dissemination only right yes restricted to how they were proposed in the grant thank you I will add I want to say about ten thousand dollars of the 51 thousand dollars was attributed to fund uptown to fund senior services staffing for the work that we're doing on this grant for scheduling and administration so ten thousand dollars ish will end up in the general fund any other discussion other flaky panoski thank you for applying for the grant I'm glad we got it all right then seeing no other discussion on this one we would be looking for a motion to approve all right we have a motion in a second seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the eyes have it the motion passes with that we will do one more jump barring objection to item number 10 which seeing no objection is resolution number 28 of 2324 a resolution authorizing an adjustment to the 2023 budget to fund higher than anticipated utility and janitorial costs at uptown social at the new facility building and in city buildings at the former uptown social building can i just start by saying thank you to the city for being supportive of working parents as i have to get to my kids baseball game thank you um so this uh with partnering with dpw and with director kreger is recognizing that last year when we put together our 2024 budget we really had no idea what to predict in terms of any of our contracted services really um and so the request is to adequately fund the needs for the utilities and janitorial supplies um and then contracted services like snow removal pest control that sort of thing also recognizing that the city is still paying the utility bills for the old senior activity center building other flaky panoski thank you um do you anticipate that moving foot you've got space that is not yet occupied do you anticipate that moving forward this the cost of the utilities which is your first year in the building so i appreciate that um do you anticipate they'll go up you know that's a question i would defer to mike wilmes on because just just because we're not we in our gray spaces we still have lights you know the the gray gym space does not have its own heating system but it's surrounded by heating heated areas so i honestly without consulting with mike i'm not sure if they would go up or would go down um because i know we're on track to start construction of the gym at the end of this year and i do believe we have to put two additional heating units on the roof for that 5000 square foot area okay thank you and there's lighting in there already thank you any other discussion on this one if not just one question from me looking at the numbers in the resolution so it's increasing uptown socials utilities by 20 000 uptown socials janitorial services by 1500 and then more generic city buildings utilities by 12 000 is that the difference in utility payments for uptown socials current building the janitorial cost and then the old building that's correct correct thank you other probably i was just gonna ask what was the cost of the added utilities and things that they had not yet so i don't i mean you can't say no brought fry actually we are having one the first weekend of august i saw that looking for volunteers yes pay attention there will be a fantastic bake sale yeah but um yeah uh it is a bigger building than we had an anticipated i mean and it's great because you're up to 1300 um participants now and and that that helps too but um we have to watch the costs all around so yeah tell them to wear sweaters i will i will say no promises here obviously the number one priority of the friends of uptown social right now is getting the gym funded because they're on the hook for that but i will say the friends have tossed around the idea of throwing some solar panels on the roof so that's in their you know 10 year five year plan something like that make cool i think it's wonderful you're up to 1300 and yeah you gotta heat the building you don't want people to start saying they're not joining again because it's it's too cold because it's too cold and too dark yeah yeah all right i'll make the motion then to pass the resolution second all right we have a motion to approve and a second is there any further discussion seeing none all in favor aye all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it the motion passes thank you reflect thank you now we're going to test how good my memory is and jump back to what we skipped starting with item number seven resolution number 24 of 23 24 a resolution authorizing the transfer of funds the establishment of an escrow account with respect to and the defecence of certain of the general application promissory notes dated july 2nd 2018 thank you this item is due to the closing of tid 14 i have requested that we actually remove the debt from our books this resolution in particular opens that escrow account that will hold those funds until those debt payments can be made there will be a slight savings to the city by doing so but it also will clear out our tid 14 fund which is no longer needed questions or comments on this one if not and an effort not to try to say defecence too many more times i'll uh ask for a motion to approve all right we have a motion a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it the motion passes that brings us to item number nine which is resolution number 26 of 23 24 a resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to execute an engagement letter with quarrels and brady llp to serve as bond council regarding proposed defecence of portion of shaboy again general obligation promissory notes dated july 2nd 2018 now i am done this item is directly related to the resolution that you just heard this is just authorizing a contract with or engagement with quarrels and brady so we have the escrow account that can be set up and they will help us finish that process well they're flaky paneski thank you good plan all around for the defecence and the escrow account and the bond council thank you thank you do we have any other discussion on this one if not we would be looking for a motion to approve we have a motion a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it the motion passes this brings us to item number 11 and back to chronological order after this uh item number 11 is resolution number 29 of 23 24 a resolution authorizing an adjustment to the 2023 budget to fund legal costs in the human resources department thank you um so back when the investigation for administrator wolf was commenced uh the council approved the funding of legal expenses for that investigation uh that is included in this as well as the fire department had a grievance that was filed um that's also included in this amount just so you know director kreger and I um and attorney adams have all talked about kind of why the funds weren't originally put there the first reason is because we didn't know what the expenses were going to be for this year but also we needed to set more clear guidelines of when something comes out of HR legal fund versus coming out of the liability fund for the city attorney's office um or the city generally so um obviously administrator wolf's investigation is fully completed and we don't expect any more costs from there the grievance um we expect a few more bills uh but this transfer amount still leaves room of about eight thousand dollars left and I anticipate that the additional costs will be right around five thousand dollars for that grievance I'm happy to answer any questions questions comments from the committee oh they're flaky panasky thank you so moving forward there was a piece in there about what comes out of a department and what comes out of general funds no no so um we just made it clear that for personnel investigations um those types of things they will come out of the HR legal budget until the point that an actual lawsuit is filed or a claim is filed with the department of workforce development for example and at that point they will transfer over to the liability fund or to the city attorney's office depending on what the nature of the the claim is but for personnel investigations which is what the portion of administrator wolf's costs are um they would have come out of the HR budget but at the time it wasn't in the HR budget um so we paid it but if we don't transfer these funds over it's going to look as though the HR budget is significantly over budget got it thank you you're welcome okay father so am i to understand that the um the wolf investigation is done so the wolf investigation is done the wolf lawsuit is obviously still ongoing but those funds are coming out of the not HR those funds are coming out of the liability fund and we might have already reached the point i'm not sure but that's not what this is addressing at all this is only addressing von briesen's investigation um that was presented to council back in the fall of last year okay i was ready to do a tap dance no no no i mean you could still do a tap dance if you want to you don't want to see it this is only related to the investigation i'm happy to rule a moderate amount of dancing to be germane any other discussion on this one seeing none we would be looking for a motion to approve all right we have a motion in a second then seeing no discussion all in favor all opposed chair about side of the ice have it the motion passes that brings us to item number 12 which is resolution number 30 of 2324 a resolution authorizing appropriate city officials to sign and execute a aspo value point purchasing entity addendum with us bank for purchasing card services thank you this resolution is to change the city's credit card vendor we would be utilizing the state's program they go out to bid and get all of the different credit cards vendors to somewhat go through an rfp process and us bank had won that contract this most recent time we are looking to change to us bank because we one will have a higher rebate from the program than we have had previously but also they offer a free service um software where it actually will allow us to import the transactions into munis our financial software we can do it more on a real-time basis currently we're doing it via journal entry about a month and a half to two months after a purchase is done so this will give department heads or just people in general in the departments a better idea of where they are on their budget and making sure those transactions come in in a timely manner other prela but also we are we are obliged to use it correct i mean we are obliged to use us bank in this case because it's a state's because the state uses it or not i mean have we looked into if we are not obliged that we also looked at um other specifics of the offer of the us bank as far as much as interest and api and then so so the city never carries a balance on our credit cards so we're not too concerned about the api or interest rate we pay the full balance off every month but i will say that i had previously looked at both credit card vendors and also vendors that would at least take our our data and pull it into munis in a in a more reasonable and quick fashion and this i have i i previously have used this contract but also it has has a standing with many communities that it is one of the most significant rebates as well in the industry so we had the choice yes we were not required to go with them but we uh the state has already vetted quite a few uh vendors for this purpose okay thank you any other discussion from committee members other headman thank you chairman how long is this commitment for are we is this a uh yearly renewal or are we locked into ten years five years i believe we can change at any time it's not a commitment necessarily to a specific time frame but if the state were to go out and get a different bid on somebody better we could change with that state program change as well okay thank you any other questions or comments on this one if not we would be looking for a motion to approve all right we have a motion in a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it the motion passes that brings us to item number 13 which is resolution number 31 of 22 20 of 23 24 a resolution authorizing the appropriate city officials to enter into a contract with teleview corporation to upgrade the digital broadcast equipment used by wsc s sheboygan community station to record and televised public meetings okay thank you so this was a capital improvement project for this year we originally had 40 000 dollars in capital we're looking at asking for increasing at the 43,420 but included in that 43,420 is the purchase of 4 000 closed caption hours for the television station something we've been looking at for a couple years so that's primarily why i believe those 4 000 hours were around 7 000 in the capital part the other is looking at funding operational expense for contracted services with us entering into this contract with teleview we're going to save around 30 percent in maintenance cost so for the five years of maintenance it's going to be 13 250 just to pretend perspective this year for maintenance of the old equipment we're paying 4 860 so a fairly significant maintenance savings by also entering into this contract thank you a little bit of clarification the 43,420 is for the equipment proper and it's 3 000 ish more than you had in capital improvements correct within that we added the closed captioning which we had not anticipated previously proposed the capital okay and then the contracted services is for this same vendor to do all of our maintenance for how long basically it will be four additional years so we get one year of warranty with the new hardware and then this will be for years two three four and five and it's 13 for years two three four and five correct thank you any other discussion on this one if not we will be looking for a motion to approve all right we have a motion in a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the a7 the motion passes thank you next up we have general ordinance number we'll back up next up we have item number 14 which is general ordinance number 10 of 23 24 in ordinance amending section 2840 so as to authorize the finance director slash treasurer to establish petty cash fund cash funds in various departments and to set limits for such funds thank you this ordinance change is being brought forward because I believe since I've started here there have been four different requests for petty cash changes actually most departments giving it back and so I am asking for this change just to make it a little easier on both myself and departments if there was a significant need for a change in a slight in the opposite direction let's say they need 50 or 100 more that the finance director or treasurer whomever is in that position at the time can use their discretion to allow a change in petty cash oh they're flicking asking thank you at what dollar amount does petty cash cease to be petty cash I would say petty cash is quite low for a value most employees here that are using doing small purchases use their credit card anyways so I think I say for sure when it comes to departments under a hundred dollars would be my anticipation for what a petty cash could purchase it might be a little higher for finance but to be honest it's very rarely used anyways I think we just cashed in our finance receipts not too long ago and I think there were five in a year and a half do we need petty that's that's where I was going with this do we need petty cash at all there are circumstances that it makes it much easier I will say I don't necessarily think it's always needed but this gives us the flexibility to at least allow for that my concern is giving a department head the authority for another department head to spend money so I'd either rather do away with it or say it's at this level it's at this level or use your credit card I and nothing about you or the current department heads but I just don't think that's a really good precedent do we have any other discussion on this one otherwise I'll just throw my two cents in quick that was something that came to mind for me as well I think with how small the amounts were anticipating our I really wouldn't have quite as much concern that in the fact that just putting hard dollar figures into an actual ordinance is not really a way to write an ordinance to last for very long which my understanding is that is the point of going with an ordinance I feel the committee could always request reports of some sort whether it's quarterly or an annual report on how these funds are being used and if they're being utilized as well if it's a concern of the committee so at this time I'm comfortable of supporting this I will also add that the auditors do look at petty cash is one of their items on an annual basis typically as well oh they're for like a basket so if we don't have any petty cash funds it'll always save money on our audit audit to report I doubt it see I'll get there one way or another I doubt it they'll find something else to look at do we have any other discussion on this one if not we would be looking for a motion to approve we have a motion to approve do we have a second seeing none the chair will second so we have a motion a second then seeing no further discussion all in favor all opposed chair votes aye that leaves us in a deadlock to make a suggestion well you so when it's a tie defeats it but you can then refer to the committee can choose to vote to refer it to council without an abortion and this is permissible after the tie has just occurred so if I were to ask if there would be such a motion to refer this to council with no recommendation from the committee would you like to make such a motion we have a motion to refer to council with no recommendation from the committee do we have a second we have a motion a second to refer seeing no discussion and deferral all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it and the motion passes this one will be referred to the common council with no recommendation I apologize I believe I said defer at some point in there so Mr. Chairman if I may just interject quick so in the meantime I'm just gonna go on the record this is a little concerning this is establishing parameters for it for the finance director regarding this this document so in the meantime for those that have dissented I'm looking at Alder-Feldy and Alder-Flicky Panesky please have conversations about your objection with the finance department so that we can set a good standard and so that we can have a good document before it comes to council so those are just my comments thank you thank you with that we are on to item number 15 which is a reminder that our next regularly scheduled meeting date will be July 24th and we have exhausted our agenda as such we will be looking for a motion to adjourn so move second we have a motion and a second for adjournment there is no discussion on adjournment all in favor all opposed chair votes aye the ayes have it and the motion passes we are adjourned thank you