 How are you doing? I'm good. How are you doing? Like it's been a week. It's yeah. And I mean, like the rush is starting now or it's really, really starting for Cuban. So it's been a week. It's been a week. It's been like, it's been rushy, but also slow. Definitely on the CNCF side. People are, People are moving slow. Yeah. I think we might as well meet because it's not like anything in the election counts is going to change in the next hour. And why I know that people love. Compulsively hitting refresh. It's not actually helping anything. That is, that is my favorite pastime. Actually, it is. I've been spending a lot of time hitting refresh. See, whereas I scheduled a whole bunch of things that I had to do for work and at home this week. In order to force myself to only check the results like once every three or four hours. No, I rearranged my whole schedule so that I could stay up all night and watch the results come in because they're not in a time zone that's friendly to me. But. After Brexit, like you look at the polls and I went to bed and I was like, Oh, you know, it's going to get remain. That's what all the polls say. It's like, you know, by a mile. And I woke up the next morning and I was just like, What? And then after that, I was like, I'm not, I'm not doing that again for anything important. Like, I don't want to. I don't know. It doesn't help anything. My constantly refreshing, but. And staying up all night, but. The. Yeah. So anyway. And besides which, given what I need to work on for this sig this week. Given what's going on in the US this week, it's kind of nice to be writing governance documents where I don't, I don't have any projects dropping in right now. Given what's going on in the US this week, it's kind of nice to be writing governance documents where I can actually recommend practices. Deep, deep cut. Yeah. Amazing. So yeah. Okay. So we don't have any projects dropping in right now. It's actually been kind of nice. We've had projects dropping in on several of our meetings. Yeah. And I hope that continues. So. So we had mentioned, we had mentioned this. Why don't we just. Do it. Or should we do the, should we do the, hey, we're meeting. We're meeting stuff. Yeah, let's do that really. Hello, hello, everyone. Today is November 5th. This is a meeting. This is a meeting that will be recorded and available on the internet later. So please be mindful of what you say and do. Please be sure to adhere to the CNCF code of conduct. And in general, just be awesome people. Okay, done. Thanks. So, so yeah, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were the, the homeless street and the homeless street. So, so yeah. We were, we had mentioned, kind of in passing. Uh, what, if we just made the, so our every other meeting was going to be kind of like the office hours, but if we just call that maintainer circle and kept it moving, sounds kind of defeated. Let's talk through that. Yeah, my bad. I've been absent because I've been doing amazing things for Kubernetes at Apple, which is awesome. And yeah, we've got amazing things going on. And you're going to dish? Yeah, Elena will talk. Yeah, Elena will talk a lot about it at KubeCon. So that we've also been getting ready for that. So we've got a ton of people speaking as well. So yeah, no, good things, good things for the sustainability of the project for sure. Anyway, so that means that I've been absent. However, I definitely am back now and I'm ready to finish out the out the year with the community, which means I would love to kick things back up with with everything that I have do, which is a, maintain our circle, be the recruiting playbook, and then see the the community management requirement for graduation. So those are the things that I'm like really gung-ho about right now. But if there's been further developments with maintain our circle without me, like let's talk about it and collaborate and see how we've grown and whatnot. I mean, I don't necessarily think it needs to be some one-size-fits-all thing. But please, go ahead. Yeah, no, we're actually nothing has happened yet. Yeah, I think I think everyone's been generally busy. So yeah, we can circle back to what you wanted. Okay. Yeah, I was like I was envisioning break rooms and small discussions kind of like what we do here now with individual groups, but a lot of different maintainers from different groups, which then the conversation would get a little wild. So I was mean, I was envisioning breakout rooms and discussions and things like that from way back in the day, way in the beginning of this year. But yeah, I know I do. I have some awesome amazing people queued up to for topics. But I know that this group really wanted the inclusive language topic to go first. So yeah, so what we actually I think maybe there's a few meetings back what we had landed on was we kept coming back to like burnout and just talking about like maintainer sustainability. So we were thinking maybe we do that as the first topic. The contributor. No, the inclusive naming initiative is planned to have its first community meeting at cubecon. So it's going to be that Thursday morning, depending on your time zone. So we can come to that if people are interested as a first step just to like show, show out in force. And then and then kind of take the topic into contributor strategy as we need to it doesn't need to be the first topic. Okay. All right, so I will continue to work on getting us some presenters for a burnout topic. And then I'll line up and schedule the rest of the speakers by weekly based off of the are off weeks. If that's cool with everybody. And then I'll work with Amy to start to get communications together. I don't think yeah, I don't see her on the line right now. But yeah, and I'll work with Amy to start getting communications together around that, meaning talking about and introducing the fact that maintainer circle will be biweekly. And how you sign up and get cool. Yeah, should we have like a running form to drop topics into or somewhere? Yeah, I just I just been using GitHub issues. So that's where they all are now. I mean, I can definitely organize that in a better way or we could put an issue template together all years. I mean, this is you're looking at the bottom of the foundation of the of the thing. Anything can be changed at this point. So you know, as as it stands at 1038 am Pacific time, we are collecting issues in GitHub issue or I'm sorry, collecting topic ideas in GitHub issues. But yeah, totally down for a more cohesive approach if you have suggestions. I mean, I think that's fine. Okay, just, you know, just allowing people to drop in and say what they want to say. Yeah, so are we looking at this time slot or the time slot that Amy has for Project Sync? The last was this meeting this time. And then Amy said she was keeping up Project Sync for Project Sync. Okay. That's the other time on like Thursday mornings or something, right? Tuesday mornings, I think. Tuesday. Tuesdays? Yeah. I'm totally okay with whatever just point somebody point me to a time that we can lock in that would work best. I think it's I think it's fine to keep this time and just alternate for now. It's like it. The I mean, the upside is that it's already in the calendar, right? So Yeah, though, if we want to do maintainer circle stuff bi-weekly, then do we want to basically have this on the calendar every week? And every other week, it's going to be maintainer circle. And then the succeeding week, it's going to be half an hour of actual SIG stuff. Yeah. And how we want to do things. I was thinking we were going to do an hour and a half for maintainer circle. Okay. Well, I mean, whatever. I'm just saying, I'm saying, if we're using this time slot, right? And you want to have maintainer circle every two weeks, yeah, then we should move this time slot to weekly so that on alternate weeks, we can have coordination meetings. Yeah. I'm okay with that. Sure. Okay. Do we have anything else to maintainer circle? Nope. None of this. None of this time. So next thing on our agenda is prep for our mini micro paperwork workshop. The we've done. Dawn, Carolyn, and I have done the recording. Now, there's two other things. One is to potentially get more materials for projects prepared to whatever we can get put together in the next two weeks. And then the other thing is, of course, to get project leaders to show up at it. I already plugged the session in the TOC meeting on Tuesday, but that meeting was extremely lightly attended. So I don't know that necessarily anybody that will have actually gotten the word out. Beyond that, I think we can all sort of individually socialize it. We're going to ask Amy to send something out to the projects. Yeah. Yeah, I think that would really help if we could kind of get the word out for like, especially like sandbox projects and let them know that we're here to help. When's the next project sync with Amy? Because that would be a perfect plug, because I think that they have to check in there, right? No. No, they only show up at project sync if they need something. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, that still could be a good check-in point for us. Yeah. Okay. And so that'll only work if there's a project sync next week. So check the calendar. Any other ideas for, because I mean, one of the other things is, one of the groups we want to reach that's rather amorphous is leaders of projects who are thinking of applying for sandbox. And there's no concrete way to reach those people because they're not seeing the projects yet. We could lurk on the TSE proposals, I guess. Yeah, and it's funny you hit up some stuff in CNCF Slack. Yeah. Okay. So for preparing other stuff, what I have planned to get ready before KubeCon is number one, I'm currently working on three templates for three different forms of project governance for the templates repo. Looking over CNCF projects, the three most common forms of governance are sort of simple maintainer, council maintainers. Composite projects, and that's where the project has a bunch of sub-projects, and then the technical leader of each sub-project is a member of some kind of council, and then steering committee elections. And so I'm writing generic template documents for each of those forms for the templates directory. It's extremely difficult to write completely generic governance documents because you pretty quickly get into a decision tree of if you do this and if you do that. So I'm going to get those done probably tomorrow. And then I'll ask people to review them. I'd like to have them available for the micro paperwork sessions. So if we can look at getting them in on a sort of MVP basis, rather than this is the perfect template for this kind of governance, because for one thing, I don't think the perfect template for type of governance X is actually achievable. The other thing is, I have a document I wrote for another publication, which is just sort of a list of all the different kinds of paperwork that a project will commonly want to have. I've been cutting and piecing that to fit in with the CNCF requirements and the structures we have for the rest of our documentation. And I'm going to try to get that finished for the paperwork session so that even for types of paperwork where we don't have a full advisory document or a template, we at least have a paragraph saying, hey, you're probably going to want this. Anybody else working? Yeah. So some of the governance documents that are in the resources guide are actually really beautiful. And I was wondering if we could adopt some of those. So some of the there's like there's like re there's like governance checklists. And some of them are really beautiful. Like I can bring up them now like like sustain like sustain OSS they have a governance checklist. And they're really like thoughtful and like they would be great for like a workshop. I don't know if y'all thought about that kind of style. And like there's one one of them that's linked as well is like a work there's like a governance workshop. And it's the curriculum of the governance workshop. That looks like it could be sort of a plug and play to like what we've already done and stuff. Hold on. Let me I'm going to get some of the links out. Yeah, I had the governance checklist in LinkedIn, the template for the this the KubeCon workshop itself. We're actually focusing on the requirements checklist. The and that's actually led to something else I put further down on the agenda. But so we are focusing on a checklist. It's the CNCF requirements checklist for for different levels of maturation. And then what we focus on in detail is going to depend on who shows up the we have what was it with 12 minutes of video and the 12 minutes of video sort of focuses on that checklist and the general requirements. And then the rest of it's going to be Q&A. So yeah, that's cool. If you have if you have other stuff that should be included in a template, then please link me that and if it's not already in the resources document, obviously it should go in the resources document. I just dropped it in the chat. Not the chat, sorry. In the notes, Paris dropped it in the chat. I like how this asks you quite like it prompts them to think about it and ask in a question way. So it's just like, let's talk about your decision making model. Like how do you want to make decisions? I don't know. That's why I saw that and I like I thought that was wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, that's really well done. Yeah, I love this really like this. Yeah. So I was like, we should just like, you could almost not adapt it, but pretty much adapt it but plug and play with some of the stuff that like all the work that's on like some of the stuff that's already been going on, you know what I mean? To like make it hours, if you will, but from a general a general sense. I don't see a license on this. Is this CC? I think let me, yeah, it's in their repo. Let's look at their repo. What was that? Yeah, their website says that the contents on the site is CC by SA. I mean, I was planning on just referring to the website though, because that whole thing is actually helpful and I don't see any particular reason to copy it. Yeah, it's only if we want to add some CNCF specific stuff to it. Yeah, I feel like I can work at least all the CNCF. Yeah, all the CNCF specific stuff I have so far. I can work into the templates. Honestly, most of the CNCF stuff does is it limits some of the decisions you need to make, right? Like you don't need to come up with a whole structure for managing your IP because the CNCF does that, right? You just need to designate who's allowed to tell the CNCF what to do. And you don't have to decide which COC to have. Those are two things. You just have to decide whether you're going to have a COC committee or whether you're going to leave it up to the Linux foundation. So yeah, we could have our own decision tree based on this one. That'll be almost kind of cool too, like from a future like what CNCF does, like what a foundation does for you in this gut, you know what I mean? That would be really cool to see kind of a visual as well. That was probably not helpful, but I mean... Yeah, I mean like the side-by-side of like seeing like answers to those questions and whether or not you have to deal with them would be awesome. I think a few of us have done proposals for projects to the CNCF at this point and... words. There are words. I didn't know what I was doing. This is a short version of it. And there's quite a bit of digging that you have to do to kind of like put the pieces together in the right way. There is a template now, right? There's a template for proposals, an expectation of doing a PR, but it's still hard, I would say. Okay. Anyway, I'll get those templates done in time for GoopCon. Don't know that I would get something like a decision tree based on the Sustain OSS material done in time. Anything you do will be wonderful, Josh. Yeah, so the... I do have to say one of the dismaying things is I said, okay, well, first, what I'm going to do for copying text is I'm just going to look through the governance documents that we have for all of our established projects and pull out common elements. And the thing is, even when the workflows are more or less the same, the wording is completely different. It's going to be interesting. So, okay. Oh, so my other question is, is anybody else going to have time to prepare anything either in the way of advisory documents or templates that we don't have finished at this point? Can I ask a lazy question to the chair? When's KeepCon again? It's two weeks away. All right, hold on. Yeah, yeah, it's at the 17th. Yeah. Yeah, hold on. 17th. I mean, it's on my calendar, so let me just ask a lazy question. Just a week and change away. I can't believe it. So I do have time for some doc review, but as we get into the middle of next week, it's... If you give me specific tasks. You have rather more duties around KeepCon, Stephen. Most of the stuff that I'm doing for KeepCon is already done because we have to do everything in advance. Fair. This is not true for you. Okay. Oh, hey, Charles. I'm to do some reviews. I don't know that I have time to do any new stuff. I am still sort of on the hook to do... I'm currently scared, Charles, away. I'm still on the hook to do the charter, and if I get time, I will try to do that next week, but I'm not convinced I'm going to have time to do it. Okay. Cool. I would say at this point, some of our only focuses should be whatever we've got to get out of the door for KeepCon and then pick it back up when we're done. Yeah. Do you want to give me a task? What do you need to do? Yeah. One of the things I was going to ask, Carolyn, you were working on a contributor ladder template. Is that likely to be done in time for KeepCon? No, not really. Because I was working out with somebody else, Karen, and so we still have more to go on that, and I don't really want to try to show something through in time for KeepCon. Do you want to give... What if we give some of the resources and say that a template's coming? It's almost like a look at these that we endorse and then a template that we're working on is coming. Yeah. We can try to figure that out next week, I think. Try to pick something we endorse. They're pretty all over the place, to be honest. Well, I know that's one. If we give a list of five to eight and we say here's some that we think are good for those community groups and not necessarily like... Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. No, if we don't have to pick just one, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Karen's already identified some, so we can do that. And those are on the resources guide that we have in the GitHub repo, too. So if we want to just review that, too, Josh, you could pretty much use anything that's on there. Yeah. If you have to fill in gaps, meaning like and say more templates coming, TBT kind of thing. I think that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Just seeing what materials we can get together before the session, other than the resources which we already have. And also, obviously, this would be a call for, hey, if there's stuff we haven't added to that resources list yet, we should. Come on down, you know. Yep. So just so that we will have stuff because if people ask a particular question, they want to say, hey, do you have an example of... We've been working on our... No, we've been right. We've been working on our piece of paperwork we need on our DCO. Do you have an example of that? Cool. I don't even know what it does. That's nice. Some CICD things, I think, right? I kind of lost track of where we are on the agenda. But I just wanted to let people know that you have a PR open that needs someone to review it in Paris. Yay, link me. I'm like, yeah. Stuff. I'm like my first stuff. Yeah. Sorry, I'm muting. Yeah. This takes the good first issue labeling stuff that I did for community, Kubernetes community a couple of years ago and refreshes it because we have more ideas now and kind of made it not specific to Kubernetes. So that's what this is. Sweet. Yeah. And I actually like this better than the Kubernetes one, by the way. And I will absolutely say that on the recording. Thanks. We can ship it back into Kubernetes. Yeah, I know. At that time, we need to re-ship it back in. We need to figure out how to do that. I'm happy to submit a PR to do that. I was super sad that the file got copied around and get and lost all my attributes. Oh my gosh, girl. I have folders in there. That was me the other day looking at all these whole directories of content that are now owned by somebody else. I was just like, all your hard work is yeah. I was just like, oh my God. Yeah. Cause now I gotta like, you know, if I'm doing a resume, I'm not doing a resume all anyway. But if I was like, you know, and you want to like link to your work, like now I have to like go into my get history because like now it looks like Bob did all my work. Yeah. Yeah. Lovely. So it's just like, anyway, we can totally stop offline about that together because I also agree that that is like, so. Yeah. I don't know. So that's what that is. So if anyone wants to look at it, I really want Paris to look at it because I think you helped to review the first one. So. And I did not help review the next 80 iterations because I think it might have the spirit, the essence of that document. I think the coolest part is like coming back to something after you like, Caroline, I had no idea you did the lay down the first doc for that. But like coming back to it later and seeing how it's evolved or like, oh, people are touching it. They're doing stuff. They like it. You're using I love that somebody else has decided to edit that and keep it going and keep it fresh. So yeah, I'm I'm excited about that. I like donating things and having people care about them enough to work on them too. It may or may not look like that meme that's Spider-Man meme though at this point where they're looking at each other because that's kind of how the doc reads now that a couple of our Kubernetes docs read like that where they're like, no, you know, you and then you're like, which one though? Which one? So it's funny that like our governance docs do that. And of all the docs that you want, like a very specific idea of like what to look at first and what to do. It would be the governance docs. And the only I'm not saying we're not going to say anyway. It's being worked on though, right? Yeah, so awkward silence. Yeah. Okay. So one of the things I actually wanted to bring up just because it came up. So this came up when we were creating the content for the session is is that there are sort of multiple places you can look in the CNCF for what's required of projects at each level. And these multiple locations are not synced up. Yeah. I mean, like this started with what you need to become a sandbox project and what's on the document in GitHub. And what's on the form are different lists. And what's in the head of the TOC members are nine individually different lists. So I had to talk with, you know, I initially filed the PR assuming this had just been an omission from the form. And Liz was like, well, wait, no, that's not right. And so now we have a much bigger to do item of, hey, we need to actually have somewhere a canonical source of what the complete requirements are for projects at each level. And then that source should become the source of data for all other places where this is listed. So in the TOC meeting, did you say anything about like a site and any any other rallies rallies around that? No, thumbs up that that was they liked the idea. It was an issue that was a wait, that was in the previous month's meeting. Yeah. And then but any anything else as far as like resources or like any any folks to like help us out. Because like the thing is a thing about the CNCF site, right, is it's not totally open source or is it now? Or because I don't know, it's like a it's like a wordpress that a wordpress theme or something. I don't I don't remember. But yeah, there was like some, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, not be going, you know, this would effectively be a completely separate site. Yeah, that would be just Netlify. Yeah, when we're going to subdomain on Netlify and yeah, yeah, like the contributors theme. Yeah, the only new contributor website theme. Yeah. Yeah. Well, then let's do it. Yeah, then we can just let's we can advertise for it. Like I can we can start like getting on the horn. Maybe like put like a blog post out on those kind of like a proposal of what we want to do and see if anybody wants to help. What if someone who loves making websites and just start something and then that's what we point people to when we start talking it up. So we're not trying to like jump start the titanic here. That's wrong ship. But you know what I mean? Do it. Yeah, do it. Who's who's going to stand it up? Is Carolyn? Is that you? Was that you? Yeah, well, because I love making websites. Oh, my God. It's amazing to do it usually. I was like, I can't tell if that was sarcasm. If we want to keep the existing theme and look of like the contributors, I forget the name of the site. You know what I mean? We're made like the community site essentially and we published everything as a website. We want to just take that theme and use it then I can start putting content in there and organizing it. We can just iterate on it. Yeah, we just make it. Yeah, we also go ahead for sure. So we also have the team to leverage if we need to. Celeste and Nate who is new, but also working on websites like they've been working on the DEX website as well. And there is a website template already. So. Yeah, I didn't know that I would see. I didn't think that we had anybody that wanted to the stand the dang thing up. So that's why I was like, hold up. All right, let's get somebody to stand it up. So all right, Carolyn's like, all right, I dig it. Yeah, that's what they finally called it. Yeah, we can just take that or yeah, take their site and take all the content out and make a new one. Did you save the template stuff on or should I take it from this? Yeah, hold on a second. So Kubernetes probably has their own, but there is a CNCF template project for. Yeah, we have our own. We have a Doxy one. But yeah, it's in Kubernetes SIGs slash contributor dash site if you want to fork that. Okay. Yeah, I've seen this one. Perfect. Stand it up. Yeah. It gives me something to do when it's like eight o'clock at night and I want to do shoot. You should have said that earlier. I would have been in your DMs. No, I'm kidding. I know. Hold on. Oh, God. Hold on. Hold on, Carolyn. I'm about to home into your DMs so quick after this call. So this is a bit like the, so we had a working group naming leads call just to like catch up because the meeting is monthly and we just ended the call with screaming. Like the last part of the call was just like, should we just, you know, scream? You know, for a meeting that we all wanted to cancel and thought we had nothing to talk about. We're getting stuff done. I like it here. Carolyn, here's another one. Perfect. Thanks. And that one is already templatified if you want to use it. I know the, I know the Kubernetes one probably a lot more time was spent on it though. So well, you know, I can, I'm, this is what I do is I just steal existing websites and Frankenstein them into anyone. So it's like, good. My, my space. And I'm down with that. That's why I tell people all the time. I'm like, why are we reinventing the wheel here? Yeah. Like I, I say that every day at least once. I'm like, why? So I love it. Yeah, we did. So like for the naming stuff, we did a panel to talk, to start talking about the inclusive naming initiative and everyone on the panel was basically, I was like, I'm an engineer. I don't want to do things twice. Like, can we just lay down a framework that works for everyone and try to adopt it everywhere? And they're like, yeah, we don't want to do these twice. That's why we form this thing. I have to keep up with you because we actually have an internal group at Red Hat naming group at Red Hat now. Yes. We are, we are, we've connected with them. Okay. Bowen, last name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're already connected with them. So we've got, we've got Red Hat, IBM, Cisco, VMware, Kubernetes naming and working on standard spot is so it's going to be a big, big old party. So at this point, I'm still just looking for and replacing master, slave and whitelist, blacklist. So anybody pulled out or anything else? That is, that is the point that I feel like everyone is at agreeing to. So with Kubernetes specifically and probably a lot of other places, it's basically people, you have like, you have a set of people who are interested in making changes or and maybe new contributors come by and they're like, yes, let's make this change. I saw this issue was open and I started searching where in place, replacing everything and you're like, oh, hold on, hold on, don't do that yet. Cause you just changed an API and we have an API deprecation policy, yada, yada, yada, right? So yes, that one too. So trying to figure out like the people who were ready to run, but giving them a framework to run with. So we landed the docs for basically like recommendation or workflow and a template and a language evaluation framework to give people kind of like a starting path. And then I think Aaron landed the first thing using that workflow or rather we have to review it, but it's, it's master to control plane, right? And then we're going to layer on top of that one. Like QBADM has some work and flight as well already, and they've started making changes on the website. So, you know, it's going, it's going all right. I think the, what's cool about the language evaluation framework or you start to look at orders of concern, right? They're, you know, so our first order concerns are like language that is very clearly causing harm, right? In some way, shape or form and eliminating it, biasing towards eliminating it as opposed to carry on a thousand year discussion about it, right? And then as you go down the orders of concern, it kind of goes into well, is the language ambiguous, right? Would we be better served by making this less ambiguous, right? So, so yeah, the, I think we're starting to move into like we've identified a few things that are clearly like we don't want these. And then, you know, the next piece is like, okay, we'll lay down the recommendations for them, execute on that, hand it off to the code owners or the content owners. And the next piece for us is that, you know, finding people who are interested in doing the work now that some of it is better defined. And then also starting to think about those second and third order concerns that, you know, that are maybe a little bit more ambiguous, right? So, yeah, because I, well, the, I just find it interesting that a lot of people have had all these naming groups and that sort of thing. And we're still currently only targeting the same four words. Yeah. That we identified early on. The, and I'm like, there's got to be other stuff out there that's pissing somebody off. Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, my, my personal and within our community, my, my, my personal thing I'd like to get rid of is, yes, pets versus cattle, but the, which does have a religious defensiveness angle to it. But yes, yes. And also because it's trivial, right? It's not, nobody uses that in an API. So it's not like we're needing to have a deprecation process. We can just replace the phrase. The, the Petset discussion is good. There's an super old one from Kubernetes. Oh, yes. Well, no, that was, it's like, it's like, it's like, why is this still Petset? And I'm like, because we forgot to rename it. We always, we always had it on the roadmap that we was going to get a long term name that was not going to be Petset. And then we didn't. Priority long term. That's how a lot of these things come around. Yes. Yes. It was like, oops, this is going to be 1.0 soon. We kind of need to rename it. Then like Minions was another one too, right? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. The, so I kind of just want to, I need to start coming to your meetings to just listen, because this honestly, I already, I feel like I learned a lot and I just, I'm just listening to like a podcast. Oh, so actually the next naming meeting is this Monday, or this coming Monday. If you see like a Phantom Paris with no video, that's just Paris is podcasting. Spooky Paris. Yeah. And then we have to figure out like how to schedule these, the larger initiative calls, because that should be fun. All right. So we want to do projects needing assistance. Well, we don't want anybody to be online. I actually hadn't realized, if I'd realized that Charles was on the line, I would have asked him to speak up earlier. Yeah, he's not paying attention. I was not paying attention to who was dialed in. He said a words. He said some words. Yeah. He just said I'd be go. I mean, he's going to be mostly involved in the Contributive Growth Working Group. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just great. I love that. I mean, what I loved most about that conversation is we're like, Hey, you know, okay, well, when you're all set with that stuff, just like post it up on the mailing list, and we'll, you know, and we'll do the tweets and the blogging thing, or the, you know, the face crams. And, you know, and then they came back and, you know, sent something to the mailing list talking about Contributive Growth. And we're like, we have that. We have that. Come on down. So it's nice to know that some of the ideas that are kind of generated from this group are having impact already, right? That's good. The, okay. Is there anything else? How are y'all doing? It's been the longest ass week ever. I'm like, Oh, right. We just switched to daylight savings. We just switched off daylight savings time on like Sunday. That was less than a week ago. How is that less than a week ago? It was like a kick in the teeth on top of everything else. I was up the whole time and I was like, what just happened? It was like looking at your phone and then you're looking at the microwave and you're like, wait, when? Yes. Oh, is that today? The, um, so, yeah. The, um, I mean, actually, I, I generally kind of like the week after switch back to standard time because I have all these early morning meetings. And so that's like one week where it's a little bit easier for me to get up for those early morning meetings. Assuming those meetings are set in US time. If you're set on European time, it doesn't help me. So on that note, I think I'm going to call it a night. Sounds like we're finished. No, we're not. No. Stay forever. Tonight's, well, tonight's bonfire night in the UK. So it's Guy Fox Day. But there's no fireworks because we're locked down. So I've, but apparently like all of my neighbors are doing fireworks. They've been watching them out the window. Oh, so you need to tell me you're not going to set off any room and candles just like open, you know, open the window. Come on. Go through the neighbors window. I live, I live in a block of flats. I think these are people with like nice jars who are setting off fireworks, but there's loads of them. So I'm going to go on insurance company calls us tomorrow from watching the video. Hi. We just wanted to speak to you about a, a claim that was made. Nice seeing you to pleasure everyone. Stay, try to stay sane. See you soon. Do some refreshing. All right, later.