 My name is Jennifer Don-Bish. I'm the Artistic Director for the Gordon-Titusis-Niganian Theatre. And I am Marcel Petit. I am currently the Circle of Voices Coordinator for the 2017-2018 Circle of Voices. Tell me about your program. What is it called? What's the age group or target audience and the aim of the program? Well, we target youth from ages 15, 16 to about 24, 25, so high school to post-secondary. And it's called the Circle of Voices Program. It incorporates themes of cultural identity, intergenerational impacts of residential schools and family, as well as the arts. What is the program intended to do? What are the learning objectives? Well, the COV invites up to about 15 participants in the program each year. You know, there's about 8 or 10 that graduate from it, but the youth are immersed in a learning environment of theatre, cultural, career development, and it's delivered over 24 weeks from October to March, and it's an after-school program that runs 5 to 9, 2 to 3 days a week. And as they get closer to their own production based on their theme, then it climbs up to 4 days and more if needed, especially when you add in technical time and rehearsals and all the fun facts of theatre. We're free to jump in. Yeah, I think from what she said, the biggest thing that we do is we... If you look at Jennifer, because she was one of the very first ones, where she is now as their artistic director, is that we try to help them push themselves out of their boundaries because they have confidence, they have self-esteem, they have all those things inside of them. It's just what we try to do is help them push themselves out of their own little safety zones, right? Because a lot of these youth come in with, they're very quiet, they're very introvert, they're very scared, they're very insecure. But by the time the program's over, most of them, and all of them, I'm not saying it works if every one of them are acting on stage and they're doing something on stage, they're being more talkative, they're actually walking up to people and saying hi rather than just standing in the corner. So it's really just about growth, trying to change patterns to break them out of their shell a little. Because I think when we... And I'm going to say this from the beginning when I first started this, I think one of the biggest problems we had is that we figured out is that I think a lot of people were coming into the circle of voices going, I'm going to become this huge actor and I'm going to get all these parts and it's going to work, right? And I don't think that's what we are. Actually, we help you take the next step. And we're not here to go, okay, as soon as you take this for six months, Hollywood's going to be calling you or somebody in Winnipeg or Calgary, right? Now you're going to get it. You might, you might get lucky, but those are few and far, right? So basically where hope to help is that we're hopefully helping by going, let's break you out of shell, let's give you some culture. Because a lot of these kids come in still, we still had at the interviews, we had kids coming in, I don't want to learn about my culture. And that was me at that age too, right? So it's trying to make them understand we're not going to force this stuff on you, but bring them a little into it, right? To make them understand this is part of them because we all know that unless we find out where we're from, we're never really going to be anywhere, right? And that's a big step. I'm not saying you have to walk around with Métis Sash on after you know you're Métis or that you have to do certain things when you become indigenous, but figure out where you're from and find out where you're from and it might touch them somehow that it'll wake something up in them that they'll help move, let's say help move themselves and the people. You look at people like Jennifer and even 20 other circle voice ex-COV that used to be they're doing something now, right? They were part of that beginning that they're doing something now but they're showing that they can move on, right? And that's a big thing. If you look at it on paper and if you look at it from back in the back you don't really see it but when you start seeing the COV that are around us and how many there are and that they're either going to school or they're educators or they're artistic directors or they're writing or actors themselves, there's a lot of them around and it's strange to see that you notice that after a while. I was never, I wish I could have been one, but I'm too old and it happened way after me. But it's an amazing experience, right? It's a life-changing thing. That's a big thing that I think Jennifer knows and we've also told the youth is that you may not get it now, you may never get it ever but in 10 years or 15 years you're going to look back and go I get it now, right? And I think that's what we're trying to do is make them understand that it's worth it. It may not seem like it right now but it's a lot different from when Jennifer used to do it compared to now, right? It was a year-long thing, right? Actually back then for me it was only, because it was first starting out it was only three months long. And then 2003 it was a whole year. Yeah, when it started to grow, when the program started expanding we were able to have it for longer days, more extended time. And they got paid. And they got paid so it led into a paid program. And like we could tell you what CUV can do for you but sometimes you end up finding other things that come out of you that you get from that program and you could tell you this is what it can do for you but then when you go through the program you discover it did other things for you in different ways. And I think with this particular program it really helps you find that voice or to remove the cage from that voice because everyone comes from different backgrounds. As he mentioned I grew up with no cultural identity I grew up with bullying in my background and for a program like this had saved me and it gave me something to look forward to fight for and even for other people that not necessarily continued their fields into the arts after taking CUV they still come and they thank us because we gave them that confidence and boosters and the life experience for them to move forward into their dream with confidence. So I'm just like asking those questions and finding out this is my identity as I move forward doing what I want to do. Exactly. And then the other big thing is the friendships, right? The friendships that you gain but then it's... I hate using that word, that family thing and I'm not going to so don't even listen to that. But it's really what they do to each other and what cause and effect happens to themselves because they see themselves differently, they look at you they're able to make fools of themselves on stage and they're able to make fun of themselves without any of that bullying and they're able to just be themselves for those three or four hours a night that they're sitting with us and that's big and you notice the ones that fall off at the beginning when you start off with 15 and you end up with 10 or 8 and the ones that leave just aren't ready for this just yet, right? There's nothing wrong with that but hopefully next year or the year after that they're going to be ready to kind of break out of that shell and some may never but it's big you think about it because when I first started in 2003 the first time I did the coordinating it was interesting to see what these kids were like and what these youth were like, right? And how they broke out and where some of them are now they're like, wow, good for you I do minutes, it's a big commitment it's like three or four hours a night not getting paid and I'm coming to do this, why? It's six months long and being a young person, right? Being 18, 19 years old I probably have better things to do but you're showing up and that's the biggest thing and that's the thing I don't think they get is that one day they'll go I stayed with this for six months for three hours a night and had to listen to Marcel that's a huge commitment and to think back on that that's hopefully one day they'll get it they'll go, that's a long time and it doesn't seem like it but it is it's a long time It helps you build up with balancing things to you because not all of our our different participants some are single parents or are working a part-time job and going to school still having that drive to try to fit circle voices into their life and it's definitely something that's not easy but surprising for those who still continue to work to try to make that happen and we do what we can to accommodate so we don't absolutely just shut someone out just because of these reasons we'll reach out whatever we can do to accommodate to the best of our advantage to help these students out who might have addictions or they're going through financial problems we make sure that we make sure that we're trustworthy enough that they can come up to us and say, hey Marcel, hey Jennifer I'm going through this stuff can you help me? for instance this COV now we had a young woman who needed a place to go and she came to us and we helped to get out of a certain situation and find a place and she didn't last in the program but at least she's looking after herself still we gave her that help to help herself and that was big and that's a huge thing if somebody comes up to you and says help because that's one of the hardest things a human being can ever do because our ego's getting the way is that we don't want to ask for help but if someone can come ask help we're doing something right because some of these kids are not all of them because again it's changed a little and stuff like that is that before it used to be kids that are coming from complete crap crap and some of these kids are still marginalized and some of these kids have to deal with racism every single day but some of the some of the kids that are still in COV still have really crappy crappy lives but it's not up to me to kind of, I'm putting you on my shoulder but what it's up to me is to build that relationship with them and say we're here to help you but you need to ask us don't you still and they want to be angry right but explaining to them that we don't know what your day was like we don't know how you're feeling we don't know that you had this happen or this happen but you don't know if something happened to us either right but we're not going to walk into I'm not going to walk into the circle of voices rah rah rah and be mad at everybody because of my day I still have to be a certain person without over acting and hiding what I'm going through but making sure I don't bring that kind of energy to what we're doing and so a lot of them now are talking to us that's why we have the circle at the beginning we smudge, we have a prayer how was your day and you can say anything you want at that day because it's a safe place right and that's a huge environment to start off with that smell the prayer and going tell me how your day was and at the beginning a lot of them would just say I had a good day and that was it right and everybody's actually telling us how their day was instead of just good I need more than good I think that's one of the worst words in the whole history of the Union language is how was your day? Good how are you? Good so making them change that and that's big and you see that now we have right now we have eight amazing young people that are forming a nice group we've also made sure that and I'll say for me what I really want to do is make them understand this is up to them I'm yes I'm the one controlling this stuff and I'm kind of let's say the boss but I want you guys to make sure that you understand that it's yours so let's say Jennifer's falling down a little and she's not showing up I want you guys to do something about it rather than me go up to them and say hey how can I help you what's going on you're not pulling your weight I want you to be that knit group right because I could be the beam guy and go rah rah rah right which I would never be but rather than me do it you do it because you guys know each other what you're going to you have your group and so it works and we've already had a few talk to each other where they'd say what are you doing how can we not showing up and then they come back to me and we talk to them go ahead so they're taking that initiative awesome yeah so you guys have sort of answered this question but like how do you measure the success of your program it's actually quite different I mean I find it a big success the fact that we're still here like COV started back up in 1999 that was almost 20 years ago and I was in that first program I was 13 in that program it's been a while since we've taken anyone that young but just to show that it's now 2018 and we're running our 2017-18 circle voices program you know speaks volumes on how important it is to the community and to everyone that we encounter and the participants that finish the program even if it's not like a giant number it's still an impactful number for these for these young students and we've had well over a hundred that have completed this program so you know for me the biggest success is the fact that we're still here today I think that's a big thing when you look at the people that we serve and the participants that we've looked after since 1999 is that when those words qualitative and quantitative came into people wanted answers right now give us answers how are these kids doing what's the success is that we can't use that because we may not see some of the success of any of these kids for 10 or 15 years and so for me to sit there and say it's now a success because of this one person doing something it really doesn't show the truth behind it what the success is is what Jennifer just said we're still here since 1999 we've changed and it's gone up and down and the kids have changed every year but it's almost the same stories from every one of the kids we bet we can go through year after year and every youth that's come here probably has the same story but at a different time so our success really isn't about numbers about how many kids are finishing right now or even how many plays we've done I think it is like she said it's 1999 it's 2018 it's 17 years later we're still here and it's still working we still get visits from our past even if you weren't in the same year you somehow become buddies with the ones that were previous or they want to meet the new ones and you know sometimes it's not it it's never ending circle for some because they are continuing their selves in the theater realm and we hire them back the ones that have really shown the commitment and they want to continue learning so we've had COB that come back as our mentee artist program where they come back doing publicity designing posters stage managing the shows and so it's just like never ending half of our office was a COV alum or parents of COV or people that just ran COV it's funny because it's weird that I've never been a COV but I felt I feel like one because I'll be honest with you when I first started this job in 2003 it was the start of my own journey becoming an artist again because I didn't think I had a right to be an artist my whole life because I was just I was a half breed matey guy from the foster homes and broken families and so when I got here this was the place that opened me up without GTMT or SNT, Saskatchewan Native Theater when it was called back then I wouldn't be where I am today I wouldn't have made four documentaries in 50 other movies I wouldn't be acting and writing without this place and so I owe a lot to it but I also owe a lot to the young people because without those young people I wouldn't have figured out me a little bit more going oh I get why I was such a crappy kid when I was a kid youth because look at that so these kids helped me with my own healing because I started seeing me in a lot of them without sounding in an ego it's like it's all about me but I started noticing going oh I used to be like that oh I get it now and so I get a lot of the things that they're going through because I went through those things and I'm going oh I see it's this place was big for me and the closest I think I ever become in a COV was they had one of their one of their first shows at my dad's boxing club and which always makes me laugh. Second show actually that was the second year COV ran and so that was cool and so that was my closest and that's when I first met Donna and I didn't really talk to a lot of the people Curtis who was there I knew of him and I knew of a few of the other people but it was it wasn't until wow what almost six years later until I got back into it and it was all because of one wrong mistake of an email I sent the wrong email to the wrong person then I got a job and so it was a good there was a reason why we always talk about synchronicity and stuff like that right and that proved it right there and me sending the wrong email to somebody and going hey do you want a job and I took it and it changed my life and here I am now and it's so it's really strange that I've always I would have loved to have done this when I was a kid but I have a feeling if I would have tried this to do this when I was 17, 18 years old I probably would have been one of the very first left I would have left too I wouldn't have lasted and I would have just like screw you guys leave me alone that's stupid right and I would have walked out so I'm glad I became a COV without actually being a COV because I went through the training I watched the acting I did the the combat the stage combat I did the vocal stuff I did the movement and the dance with them and it helped me it helped me along the way and we'll never talk about my first acting gig ever again but but now I've acted now in three different planes right and I wouldn't have been that person without this place and I think that's a big thing with a lot of the COV is that I bet a lot of them I'm gonna say at least 98% of them will look back and go someplace in their life they're gonna say I wouldn't be here unless I would have done this right and that's amazing which is pretty much me today starting out because I'm at 13 and now I'm 32 and artistic director I never thought I'd be artistic director someday but you know that the program impacted so much for me but I'm still here and I want to do the same and reach out to other students help them find their voice it's big right it's like you look at who's around us you've got Corey and Danny and Curtis and Jennifer and Erin and oh Seamus you got all these people who are doing amazing things was it because of COV I'm gonna say yes partly the majority of it was them but this place I think kicked them in the ass a little going oh I get it I get it and it's an amazing program for young people it's amazing when you bring them back to some that apply for the artist mentorship which is like a step up of more of that leadership role and then when they're doing with the new batch of COV they get why we would like you know scold them for being late or for doing this and they're like okay I know why you did that and now I have to do that I'm totally seeing it because sometimes like you said might not kick in till later so it's funny to kind of like see that realization on them you know we don't we never want to believe what the adults say when we're 15, 16 right crap and then you when you finally get it god mom and dad were right that teacher was right so like what in your opinion makes it an example of excellence and indigenous education I think it's just the way we teach it I'm gonna say it the way yeah that's the word we don't force it but we teach it differently with adding culture and adding the arts and adding their voice even their voice into it we really make sure it doesn't come from us we make sure it comes from them and that's a big thing even with the script writing like you look at before a lot of the scripts are written by them so they learn how to write scripts they learn how to talk they learn how to do dialogue they learn how to literacies right there and we've met a lot I've met a lot of kids in this program that are 17, 16 years old and don't know how to read and that screws you up that we're in the middle of Saskatchewan in this country we have kids that don't know how to read still and don't just respect to them but I think that's what it is is mixing that culture mixing their voice and not forcing it is really a really big issue because I'll be honest with you I think and I still believe that was First Nations indigenous people we don't learn the same way and I think putting 30 of us under fluorescent lights in front of one teacher is not the way we're used to doing it that's where we're feeling a lot of kids is because we're saying math for two hours and then English for two hours rather than being do it on the land do it outside give us coaches so we can learn that way that's the way we learn more than one person that's leading it through so yes we have our one person there to be the coordinator guide but we bring in all sorts of different perspectives because everyone's different and they might adapt to something that works for them for the best so it's not just one person for example bringing them in on stage combat we bring in different people and it's really great to expose them and getting them to know who else is out there to active these mentors because yeah you look at like even this year I can take a look think about it that one instance and I'm not the greatest act in the world but I helped them with their monologues I helped them with their stuff and how how I've learned and then we had Frank who's a tech guy but a very good he's knowledgeable theater and acting because he's been around it for a long time and he's also he's he's trained in clowning I guess and so he knows what he's doing so he taught them as well on stage during the monologues and then they've got Curtis who's taught him stuff and then different either a few other people and now the new director who's going to be coming to teach him will have a different way of doing things and so we make sure at the beginning we tell him take what you need from everybody don't believe this is the truth right this is the way you have to do it take what you need from it and use it for your own and so because when they get to Daniel it's going to be different from what Curtis has shown from myself and maybe Jennifer or anybody else but if they can use that so that teaching really helps him as Jennifer said it opens their mind to all these different things and that's huge and that's big when you look back and go you've just not paid for and given for free for six months four or five different acting classes by four or five different people who may not be right but at all different levels of acting and come from all different perspectives and that's big because if you were to try and pay for that out of there you probably wouldn't pay for five different people to teach you acting you probably would have went to one acting school and that's all you'd learn and I think that's a big thing another thing that we try to teach them to that education is that don't stick with one don't stick with one person and go this is the right person to learn acting from and that's the thing that we try and tell them go watch theater, watch movies watch theater, watch movies watch the way people act and see what it's like and even to the simple thing is body movement and learning how to use your body to guide so when I'm on stage I know I don't have to go because I'm already there, people are going to see me and if you put Jennifer beside me teaching them understanding that is that when we're beside each other people are still going to look at me so how can she without being too extraordinary how does she move and how do I help her and stuff like that so it's kind of sharing and I think that's one thing I learned a long time ago is that is how actors feed off of each other because we're not there to better each other but what we're there to do is compliment each other when we're on that stage and save each other too right when we forget lines or we're about to laugh going and we can look at each other and go don't you fucking laugh come on, come on, there it is and so I think that's the thing that we teach in too is that ability to start thinking it's that what do you call it is a word for it it's really trying to figure things out before it happens because theater and acting is a strange, fun place to be but it's when it comes to live theater I love it because I always wait for something to go wrong sometimes I want things to go wrong just to see what will happen and especially with the actor it's like what's going to happen it's fun when they laugh now then you can actually see them breaking down out of character for you a few seconds and I think with as far as indigenous and like the arts I would have loved to have I'm glad that my first exposure to this kind of learning experience was through the COV program and because of what I learned and loved from this program and then of course something like this isn't in the classroom when you move on to another school and you take other drama because you still want to follow in that arts and it's a different environment and this one it has that they bring out that comfort and compassion and they really embrace you regardless of what you're going through because they're there to help you not necessarily give you all the answers but help give you those tools there's a more personalization with it they really care about each they get to know each and every individual in the program and doing that work one on one or those questions on the culture aspect of it to confine it into this one class you know I would love to have this like in the school so there is a difference especially with our approach into arts and culture than to other schools and how they approach them and I'm not speaking it will because you can learn a lot from that but you can definitely tell a difference when you're someone taking a program like this and then a program that's different from your perspective what is indigenous education like how do you define the word indigenous is it a term that you would normally use? I don't think it's a term I would normally use I wouldn't say it indigenous if I would have to say anything about indigenous education I'd look at something like St. Francis even Oskaiak and when it first started it was native survival school and I think that is what I would describe as indigenous education when you miss language, land and culture as well as that other piece which is English and history and math and stuff like that because we got to remember when 400, 500 years ago even 300 years ago it was our elders teaching us the history and the math and the language and the land and how to snare and I think that's what indigenous education is to me is putting culture back where it's supposed to be in the forefront not that there's anything wrong with English and science and math but in our culture there's English science and math is that we tend to forget that we do have math in there we do have culture in there in order for us to get from here to the hunting grounds or the medicine grounds we had to know how many days it was going to take us we didn't call it I'm not even going to use that stupid I was going to say that stupid term many moons thing but we knew how long it got there so it was all in there but to me indigenous education if we were going to have to say use that it's really just about mixing bringing the culture and the land back into it and the language language, land and culture it's a huge thing you can say culture is land and language so all you have to say is culture but I think that's an important tool when it comes to indigenous kids and you go to places like when I first went to St. Francis here in Saskatoon and it's known as the indigenous school now and it's language you see culture everywhere and I would have loved to see that when I was a kid but I didn't know anything about what an Indian was I thought there was one type of Indian in the world we were all the same and there was only a teepee and an igloo and that's it and we all had teepees around North America and then as I got older going oh there's three or four different types of creed well why didn't I learn that what is residential schools what is an Inuit what's an igloo and what are all these things and then when I first heard what a wigwam was what the heck's a wigwam why didn't we learn any of this stuff and I think that's it is that when we do this we make sure that they understand a little bit more about it even to the other day we did tobacco ties and it's a big lesson because it's a lesson to patients and again it's one of those lessons you'll never get until you get older you go oh I get it patience damn it you taught me something without even knowing but that's part of our culture is that indigenous people we don't have to blur it out this is what you're learning we give you something and we tell you something it's up to you to find that out and I think that's what we give them and yeah it's when I looked at that question what indigenous education is that's a hard question because I've never used that word before because people can sit there and say indigenous education is learning about learning about the Kree or learning about the Black foot but it's not about that it's about language, land and culture it doesn't specify because there's different language, land and culture so when you think indigenous it's almost like one word for everything and not just one specific if it was just Kree culture language then you get a specific idea so for that word it's more it's bigger to me compared to back then looking at a paper when I was like what's this I don't know what this is then growing up learning then you realize everything that's behind that word and it can be different to you so just like Marcel has mentioned and then just my few words of what I think that is you look at like the way we teach it even to the putting T-piece up right what poles represent is that here in Saskatchewan we had that one poster for the longest time this is what T-P poles represent which is it's different from the Black foot it's different from the Kree and Fort St. John again there we just assumed that all people had the same amount of poles and they all meant the same thing right and that's not the truth right and so I think that's a big thing is that making sure that if we're going to teach some of this stuff is make sure that we have those different people here we're on Kree territory and the treaty that we're on is that we understand that and of course the Métis homeland so making people understand what treaty you're on even that right is that I it'd be interesting to go walk up and down the city of Saskatchewan right now and ask that one question what treaty land are you on and see how many people can answer and see are you on Treaty 4 or are you on Treaty 6 and but it'd be an interesting interesting little stand in the middle of my what treaty land are you on yeah I don't know yeah that would make a good YouTube video yeah yeah what is your vision for the future of indigenous education in your community in your community and in Canada I think Jennifer said it well just a few minutes ago I said something like this is amazing going back to the simple way of teaching right and I'm going to use St. Edward's school as an example a friend of mine who teaches there Mel he does an eco class there where he teaches these kids all year round and they sit on couches and they all talk and I think and that's the same thing I've been doing since 1999 right is that we don't put them behind desks we sit them down we have all these different people coming to talk to them but we let them think for themselves we let them use their voice because for too long they've been not using their voice right they've been told shut up you're too young to talk shut up no talk raise a little help say no to me if you want but tell me why you're not you're not going to do it right just don't say no we're going to give you the space and I think that's I think to me I think when it comes to the circle of voices in just my part it's just keep going where we're going because we're doing it the right way it's lasted a long way it's good to keep changing it up with the coordinators of course and also the different directors and the different playwrights and everything that really helps because it brings a different story but I think that culture the language because we're learning about a lot of language now it's fun trying to say some of these pre-words that I don't even know how to say them and so I'm learning at the same breath but I think the way this is and the way Indigenous education I hope that everybody looks at what St. Francis Oskaiak I think has got to find itself again I think it's lost itself a little no disrespect to them but I think what St. Francis is doing and what some First Nations and Saskatchewan are doing and you look at Belinda Daniels who does the language camp every year an amazing, amazing language camp bringing it back to the land is a big, big thing is that remembering that we are this land we are these people so it would be great for us to do stuff outside it'd be great but it's plus minus 30 right now there's no way to go outside and we'd probably lose so many kids then but I think remembering that is keep going the way we're doing keep the culture in it I'm glad that we've always had the culture in it and I think that if we would take the culture out of circle of voices it wouldn't be circle of voices anymore I don't think we would have lasted as long without that culture because they learn things they learn something about themselves even though some of them hate smudging and some of them hate going to sweat and whether we do pipe ceremonies or not we do the horse dance but they learn something from it because all of us at young people we hated going to culture stuff we hated going places unless it was a pow wow and we could be with 20, 30 friends and just running around but it's that patience and it's an amazing thing to learn it made me smile and I know we talked about it before it made me smile and hurt me too in the same breath when I heard a kid go I don't care about my culture and I don't want to learn about my culture but that's partly all our faults because of what I thought about it I didn't care about it when I was 15, 16, 2 I didn't want to learn I didn't know what I was I knew people didn't like me they didn't like me because I was matey or half-breed white people didn't like me because I was Indian so I'm going okay leave me alone and so I can understand where it comes from but just to hear that it's still there like that it kind of freaked me out wow kids are still hating their culture and it brings them back in softly because we're not judgmental we're not going to laugh if you don't know your language we're not going to laugh if you don't know how to smile we're going to tell you, just put your hands up we're not going to laugh if you don't do it right we give you the answers that help guide you to do it yourself because we're not just going to school we'll take these buckets and bring them here this is by their own free will why do they want to take the program what they want to get out of it that is the software way of doing it it's because they're coming to us so we're not grabbing people and just forcing them to do it so I think that's also an important thing to add into the education system it's giving them that option and it really depends to all schools universities it's different so what are they missing what do you have and then what's important and what is missing about it so is it a program like this at a university what we have come a long way and I can't speak too much because it has been a while since I've been in elementary and high school but I can certainly see the difference from then to now to not having anything about the indigenous and only learning it once I did this program I think the cultural thing we had during that time was jigging club heritage dancers and that was about it but there was we just started learning dance we weren't even getting taught on some of the teaching so it was kind of like it was a fun experience but there was a lot that you weren't learning from it so what program do you have how can you strengthen it how can you expand it or asking the students what's missing what would you like to see more so that we can build on that to the next program asking the students themselves and even in high school there was so very very little like a handful of us indigenous students and the only thing that we had was the Cree classes and even then I didn't get a lot out of those because we copied words off the board and drew a teepee and so I didn't really get a lot so I think there's lost opportunities and things that we could do to strengthen that and again the only way to do something like this was to apply to this after school program but now I've seen that they've really embraced the indigenous culture at the schools but again what are how many things are they bringing to that school what are the other schools missing because some of them don't have the capacity to have that so sometimes we'll get requests for us to come to them because they can afford to hold a whole year class on that or anything you can only afford little things like this so I think like you can't really speak for one school but for all that has you know many different types of people what's there how can you improve it or what can we add Can you think of any types of information that if you had now it would help to achieve your vision I think the biggest thing about this whole indigenous education even circle voices it's always about the people that work it's that trust we trust each other we know each other we know what job we're doing we know what the circle voices is and what it what it isn't and so it's not like we're coming in and re-molding everything it gets re-molded because of the youth that come in and but it's that trust of the elder and the trust of the coordinator and the AD and the GM you know that we can nicely go over the waves and everything and guide this into what it's supposed to be at the end of March I don't think there's no magic there's no magic pill or magic bullet for the circle voices but what it is it's the youth it's making sure that we're honest all the time about what we're doing and that's a big thing because we're not trying to make superstars we are trying to make superstars but not in the sense of these big actors and these big things what we're just trying to do is make them shine and I think that's the biggest thing that we have to say true to is that it's not about me it's not about Jennifer they're going to make us look good no matter what because at the end of the day when the play is over and people come up to us and thank you and say you guys did a good job it'll feel good but it's really got nothing to do with us we were in the back it's them doing the play and whoever the playwright is in the director we came along for the ride and I'd like getting that pat on the back too but making sure that it's not about me it's about them and I think that's and I think to keep keep rolling along with the same kind of idea again it's changed again from the beginning and it's going to change again probably now and then but it's really trying to keep to the same standard that we're doing because circle voices is an amazing program and we've I think one year we went over 60 different touring places to the little 4 or 5 only touring places but we've been all over Canada people know about it and people talk about this program right and people love this program so I think maintaining what it's supposed to be at I think it's always been an honest program and I think that's the thing is keep it honest because we've tried not to make it too colorful and too this right it's still it's still it's young still self right after even 17, 18 years it's still an early program that's still doing what it's supposed to be doing we're not trying to change it up we're not trying to make it this big big thing it's almost like a thing that's still in the background but it's in the foreground a lot aside from the programs in which you are personally involved what information do you have on other Indigenous education programs are you talking about within our company or with within Canada Canada? the ones that I know of like even the BAMP Center is an amazing program I hear nothing good about good things about that program and I think when that first started it's brought in a lot of amazing younger people and older people there's even elders that go take classes there about writing and acting and directing and whatever I think that's an amazing program the newly started one though the ATP program that I have to say is probably one of the best things that started at the university with the ATP program they're getting a lot of young kids some kids that used to be here that are in it now but I think again it's because they mix culture in it it's their stories and I think that's the other thing right down the line from the beginning in 1999 it's their stories it's not our stories but yet each one of us probably have something in there that's kind of our story but it's their stories I think anything that has to do with being Indigenous and Indigenous education we're allowed to tell our stories it's not somebody doing black robe or old part 7 or other stories that sure about us but it's not our story because we never told it here they get to tell their stories and there they get to tell their stories and I think that's what it's important you look at that program and BAMF and you look at Native Earth and Talking Stick and a few other programs across Canada and you even look at St. Francis and their story and that's big because again we've been told for so long what our story is just that we're finally telling no this is our story and that's screwing people up because we're going what we didn't know about that we didn't know about certain things I'm 49 and I still look back and go holy crap I didn't know about that how did I not know about that because I was never part of their story to tell my story the story that I was brought up with let's get rid of that part of the story so we can bring him up to be I'm going to say to be just like us whatever that means that old beautiful colonialism thing you know the programs like different are like starting to grow out there not all doing the same thing and they can only have the capacity to like focus on a section like another one we just happen in the past and it's come back now is the indigenous playwright circle and that really highlights you know because we need more you know indigenous storytellers telling their stories on the stage and you know it's we're lucky to have it here in town because we have a lot of voices and to have this tool to specifically work on that section of themselves is really great I mean COV covers a lot of spots but if you want things that like really focus or like more intense you got places like the ATP indigenous playwright circle and there's other poets right Kevin we succumbed and Lindsay Lindsay Knight and Jenelle they you have the post society indigenous post society that's amazing because it's telling their story stories that when you go listen to some of the poetry you kind of go and you go oh my god and and a lot of people and I'm going to say not an Aboriginal people probably look and go oh my god why am I feeling this right why am I feeling this I've never heard this story before because we finally get to tell our story and we're going to listen to us you don't have to but I think that's the biggest thing you look at things like that you can tell the change is happening and it's a part of education again it's educating us but it's also education everybody else around us because again we have tons of indigenous people that still don't know a lot about their culture a lot about things that are going on around them it's amazing like even the other day a friend of mine was talking to me and he for the first time I remember of how many missing murdered women in Canada and he said I didn't know that number and I said yeah but the number is probably bigger I said don't take the RCMP and Canadian government's number as truth that number is probably bigger than we all know but it's amazing that we're all educating each other and in some cases we have to get rid of the lateral violence how we teach each other sometimes but that's just me but it's great to see some of these programs happening because there's still a lot of push back you look at last year when one of the schools got mad about smudging in town and I remember 10 years ago when they were complaining about smudging and then we had this whole sit down and talking okay it's okay but I think the problem is is that everybody thinks we force people to smudge nobody forces anybody to smudge that's one thing we don't do we don't go you need to smudge you can walk past it and I said you don't have to you don't have to smoke it and then she also said well I don't want to get high so it's that assumption and those jokes that people have made that yeah we put marijuana into our pipe and I'm going no there's nothing high in there and I said but you don't have to smoke it you touch it to your shoulder and pass it on by and she said really and I said yeah but without judging her and without laughing at her I did tell her let her know that yeah it's not getting high and I said that's the thing you need to change is that don't don't say that if you do say that in public I said I hope you're not around me and people and I said just be be glad you're around me but I think that's it's changing and it's it's evolving there's a lot of anger out there and you can see that in a lot of our plays you can see that in our drama you can see that in our writing in our poetry but I understand why because for the longest time people like Jennifer and I were supposed to have a voice we were supposed to sit back and go along for the ride but something woke us up and somebody woke us up and here we get to raise a little heck right and like her play last year and might play the year before we made sure we shook it up a little but that's our job and that's our job to teach young people to shake it up a little