 Hello So this session is about asking any questions you want to The open stack foundation. We had a few ideas for questions to open it up if you don't have Any questions, especially what the hell is up an infrastructure because it's a popular topic So I'm happy to ask the first question If that's a good way to get off We have a law and sell She'll make it. I'm sure so you may know John's and Bryce here Is the head honcho at the up-and-stack foundation? Mr. Collier is our Resident job maker so CEO and I'm in charge of keeping the cats together and No one sell best or real work, which is why she's not here. That's so true. All those things are true So there are some mics in the middle here and on the sides and You know, don't be shy if you have questions. This is the time ask them about anything So I have a question what is open infrastructure Jonathan Did you did you miss my keynote yesterday? I may have missed the keynote backstage and the sound was not so great So, yeah, I mean it is a good question. I think it's it's something that we've been talking about obviously a lot this week already, but To me and we can hear if you have different opinions, but to me open infrastructure is is really about building out Open alternatives to manage all of the different forms that compute storage and networking Are are taking now and are are going to be taking into the future and and then making sure that those are Production ready able to run its scale with the proper security so that you know businesses can can rely on them for real workloads and and you know, I think that that Open stack has always been Infrastructure from the very beginning it started as open source infrastructure as a service software but the the the concept of of what Infrastructure was back in 2010 was was pretty much just virtual machines automated and you know maybe some some different kinds of storage and And that was kind of what cloud overall was limited to but what we've seen in the last eight years is that that New applications higher up the stack have driven a lot of new demands on the underlying infrastructure Things like AI like mark demo today where you might need GPUs or FPGAs Or or things like like running a ton of locations distributed out into the world That that can't be accessed by a human very easily or things like massively multi-tenant environments where you need Better and better isolation and security in lighter weight ways so I think to me, you know, it's it's really about solving those low-level problems so that the upper levels can continue to innovate and And and you know rely on some really solid access to automated compute storage and networking Speaking of the demo Tim belt is derived. So I believe he speaks German now Nailed it another important part to me is the interoperability part because Feel like it's very important that whatever we build internally or externally to solve those infrastructure problems so that that they that you can actually like address them with common APIs and that means Truly hybrid model where whatever you deploy locally is also compatible with what you may use externally and To me up an infrastructure is also about this interoperability and it gets more important as you distribute this compute power Closer to the edge because standards and interoperability will be key to the success of that technology I think open source is a great role to play there And I think open infrastructure is that layer that will be built on open source Projects that is interoperable and that you can build your applications on top of Lauren, what do you think open infrastructure is? Okay, we've never had a panel table this formal. I feel like I'm Something up here monitors or distracting Well, I think when we have been I'll take a little bit of a different view from like the technology view but as we've been thinking through over the last year and I think we talked about this a little bit in Vancouver, but When we obviously like kicked off the foundation and started to build this community Everything was very much from the perspective of open stack the project and the software and the community Which was extremely important and you know a pretty like broad Project that was growing and took our focus, but I think over time organically we realized that The people that were you know coming and collaborating our events are online they were you know working with technologies are doing things that were much broader than open stack and We were kind of looking at it from the wrong point of view of the point of view of just through the software project Or the point of view through the contributors and the people who are running this software And they were thinking open stack was really important, but it was one piece of it And they weren't just coming for you know the software the technology They were coming to you know learn how to run these things together So to me when we're thinking about you know open infrastructure moving this direction It's also just about the the perspective of not just one software project But kind of more holistically solving this problem together We have the full spectrum now. I Think there might be some people getting asked questions. That's what I want Please perfect. I have a question yesterday in this in this very same room there was a panel of the industry analysts and I actually challenged them and asked them question Why the open infrastructure shouldn't matter to user the reason was that they gave their view and they said the growth of the open infrastructure ecosystem is You know barely half of what Amazon annual growth is you know The users are looking at the analysts reports in terms of where should they invest their money and vendors are looking at the analysts reports in terms of where should they spend their research dollars and In my opinion the analysts gave a pretty poor answer and so my my question to the foundation is What should foundation do to really? You know work with the industry and analysts and you know get the message out That you know infrastructure matters and user should be spending the dollars and company should be investing No open infrastructure rather than you know Amazon Google Microsoft invariance alone. Well Can you give me names for those analysts? That's recorded. Okay. I just saw an analyst watcher there on the schedule point him out now so yeah, I think that's a It is a really interesting question You know if you look at at some of the the The analysts out there. They've definitely had There's a variety of opinions Across all of the analysts that we talked to and work with and I think that the one of the things that that I've thought for You know a while now is that that it's it's hard to to Kind of measure the impact of open source in the in ways that it's a lot easier to measure the impact of of Proprietary systems You know when you look at at kind of analysts reports on sizes of the open-stack market they range between Estimates of you know several billion to six billion to I've seen up to eight billion dollars And so there's there's you know like a wide range of it but those are are looking at kind of the The level of revenue that's coming in around an open-source project Which is just one piece of kind of like what the overall pie for for the open infrastructure market Really would look like When you look at something like like you mentioned, you know Amazon and public clouds Amazon's revenue includes a an end-to-end solution that is hardware networking data center space Operations all of that kind of kind of thing and and so it becomes really difficult to to compare those things for for the in terms of what we can do as a foundation one of the the things that we are always trying to to highlight and to get data out there about is around user adoption and and kind of the different The different types of workloads and use cases that that it's driven into Because ultimately you know that that's a that's how Any of the technologies that we see in the market succeed or fail it's about it's about adoption and And so you know that's that's one of the things that we that we always try to do so If you're interested in helping with that any users You know make sure they come to the user survey make sure that that they're in contact with us because then that gives Us better data to share with the analyst that helps helps us show how widely adopted it is How many markets it's markets it's going to what kind of like the broad set of use cases it's it's it's it's being used for on the you asked about kind of the the commercial side and I think that that you know that's another another question that we get sometimes is from from some of the companies and in in the ecosystem is you know similar kind of research and questions and And and you know the the answer again for us is really comes down to to adoption for in terms of ultimately what's going to drive product sales for them But I think that that one of the things that that that is also Really relevant is the innovation that that you're able to take advantage of when you when you basically are partnering with an entire Collaborative ecosystem of people who are developing it together We actually had had a meeting mark and I just like an hour or so ago with with with some customers of one of the the vendors in the ecosystem and and the the the the General manager from from the vendor there was talking and kind of introducing us and he said without open source You don't have innovation and I think that that's that's a mindset that that You know it's pretty advanced not everyone feels that way right now but I think that that's the direction that the world is heading and and over time we're probably going to to Overall, you know have to develop some different ways of measuring How these how these different approaches stack up because it is really difficult to look at it from a purely Kind of Dollars, but sometimes that's sort of like the easiest number to get but I think yeah, if if you are interested in and how to help us the biggest thing is users users and and and that's like the I think the the data that we that we really Have to build and and flesh out to share So I think but you know someone else can yeah All right, I mean this is a question that sir like came up before in different forms and we talked a little bit during the roundtable about it Basically the concept of mission creep the fact that okay You're more or less get rid of the big tent concept now you're launching top-level projects and generally you said oh It's just four projects a year for projects a year five years as 20 projects 20 top-level projects And that's not thinking about all the development that's going on within OpenStack itself So do you think like they raise a real danger that this this whole structure you've built will become too difficult to operate and Would you consider kind of spinning off some of the projects? Potentially under the Linux Foundation because because that seems to be like the hot thing right now And you know like the logic new communities left and right so I Think it's important to realize that it's not a zero-sum game in the OpenStack community We don't have like a finite number of developers that we allocate to one project or another every time we open up a New use case a new strategic focus area or a new project it comes with new people that join our community or operators that we're using OpenStack software before that We're exploring new ways of deploying it and integrate again with other software or we're using something internally that they think is useful for everyone So in the end It wasn't even the case in the case of OpenStack when we added a new sub project in OpenStack We wouldn't take away resources from a given project to allocate them But it's even more true for for those new projects We've come with come with their own community their own Their own ways of doing things the important for us is that they are openly collaborating that they are helping with open infrastructure and when we say we won't add That many projects and I'm not even sure we would add four projects per year. It's like I hope not Yeah, and I would say you know you said would we get to the point where it makes sense for them to be independent and to a certain extent They are independent, you know, they have their individual communities with independent technical governance So there's not you know the structure is maybe not as Structural as CityCube it wouldn't consider it as like you know concrete and steel It's it's really a a collaboration model in a in a As a foundation a set of services and kind of support that we provide to these communities To help them help them grow, but they're they're very much kind of thriving and growing on their own as independent projects They're just they have certain things in common and that's that's the that's the important thing You know, they're they're going to be used together in in common use cases But they're they're they're independent in many ways kind of from from the beginning. Yeah, well I was going to say that a little bit along the same lines But I don't see the four projects that's operating in silos and it's been really cool to see a lot of The collaboration across those teams this week like I've seen different Twitter threads happening where the airship team is working with the Zool team and this morning airship was talking about how their next step Is to add support for ironic So I I definitely don't see these projects operating You know they're all benefiting each other and I think that's a really important point is that we're thinking about this all for the same kind of You know for our community, which are people that run or you know or care about the infrastructure layer So they're all the projects are are related and benefit each other and I mean like if you look at Cota Yes, it plugs into open stack zoom I think and the board meeting I heard some updates about like Storelets and a couple other projects of an open stack that are that are doing some Cota things, but also just Working with the Cota community has given us a chance to build stronger relationships with the Kubernetes community and that kind of Diplomacy also has a positive effect for open stack So there's all this kind of network effect between these four or between the projects that we have and I think that any project We would add in the future would be in that same sphere It turns out when you put engineers in the same room and they discuss technical problems the boundaries between projects or foundations or anything else Doesn't really matter. Yeah, that's very true And so I see none of those people are going which foundation is this project and that's not what they're right there Like what does the code do and what problem does it solve and can I may put it together with what I'm doing and solve a Bigger problem like that's actually what what matters and I I see our role Being in opening doors and making sure those connections happen And that's where where I'm very happy with with the new strategy that we put in place because we're more open we moved from wanting to do everything within our community within open stack to Take more of a use case a problem that people have and help them solve that be it with project that we host integrating project that we don't post Taking the problem and trying to solve a problem space rather than just produce a piece of software I think it's it's it's way more a way more positive approach to look into it And I'm very happy with the connections. I have with those other adjacent communities I think we have at the technical level really good relationships. So I'm very happy that it's working I Thank you Really we're looking for a bit of guidance from the foundation And how far we can stretch the open info emits within. Yeah, I deal with you just described She's reaching out to adjacent communities, you know, we'd like to get other speakers involved I'm necessarily directly involved in all this work like how far can we push that before it's your own couple with it being branded? Yeah, that's a slightly awkward question. But no, no, it's actually a great question and and And first of all, thank you For for organizing these events and yes, I see Danny back there So the the thing that that That has been really interesting for me is is sort of this for me the the concept of open infrastructure in some ways Started with the open stack days that we were doing because the open stack days are Are some of the the events where I realized, you know what our existing global community is already a lot bigger and and concerned with a lot more technology than just the open stack projects and And and and we saw that at you know all of all of the open stack Day events that we would go to because you'd go there and there'd be presentation of an open stack for sure But there'd be a workshop on seph. There'd be presentations from, you know in Tokyo Yahoo, Japan talked about cloud foundry and open stack running together and and you go around the world and you see all of this and and and and then we started talking with users and we and like You know to read was saying it's kind of like you don't want these things to to be in a box and be organized solely around one One technology because then you lose you lose that sense of collaboration. So the open the open infraday Program that that I think will will be moving towards over the next few years is to me It's it's actually a great opportunity to recognize kind of the the path that that those community events have already been on around the world and and is jasik in this room From skt. Okay. No, so so jasik on who works at skt is involved in in organizing the the open Infraday in Seoul in South Korea And they did an open infraday this year They wanted to pilot it and try it out and and we supported them in that and And what they did is they went they actually went and for several months, you know went around to To a cloud native user group that was there. They went to a seph user group. They went to an ansible user group They went to a bunch of these other community groups and said this is what we're what we're looking to do We've got users and operators who are who are involved and we love you know for for your community to participate so that we can talk about all of these things together and And and they you know they kind of like put in that that legwork and when the the time came around for their event They ended up having the basically like the most successful event that they've ever had there and they had great representation and and I was able to go and Really enjoyed it because it was exactly kind of like Seeing it in in action, you know the thing that that we that we want to see which is this collaboration integration across these projects So I would say you know that that was a good pattern that we that we want to Get the the South Korea group to share and With with the other organizers because I think that it was very effective And it was also very successful for them from an event perspective, you know They they sold out their sponsorships. They sold out their tickets They had great speakers and and and and so they you know They also had a lot of fun putting it on although Ian Che was He was very busy. He was kind of the the main organizer and and and he was a he was he was like He was like it turned out to be so much bigger and you know, it was a lot of work But he was very happy with it. That's a good problem. Yes Yeah, it's really heartening to hear because that pattern that you just grab is pretty much exactly what we've been Yeah, we're just we're really too sure about how far to stretch. Yeah, I think I think stretch You look like you have long arms so stretch far Yeah, and it really depends on the market because when we've gone around these different events It just seems like different in a way I say market I mean like geography are just at different kind of stages or different things kind of Resonating it depends on the people. So we put a lot of trust in local organizers like you to help kind of make some of those judgment calls But I don't know if you're at the meeting yesterday that they had For user groups and I know that they talked a lot about that there And his questions that we're trying to like figure out too is like, what's the right balance? How do we do this? And so we're just all kind of sharing that feedback and trying to feel our way along together So there's not like a clear and as you as you go through the process We would love to hear you know kind of what what your experience is and what what's working or is you know, it's like Challenging or whatever because that's a yeah, I think I think that's extremely helpful for us and for the rest of the organizers as well Thank you. That was a really good question. I Guess behind that question was also the question of the scope of an infrastructure What's in scope? What's out of scope and I think You have up and stack you have all of the dependencies obviously we build on top of Ansible on staff and and And you have to deploy up and stack itself as well So all all that layer is obviously on scope But also the year above it is in scope like what do you use to deploy applications on top of those? Things so the cloud native frameworks that built on top of open infrastructure to me Is is that layer of connection between what's purely open infrastructure and what builds on top of Open infrastructure Transformation it doesn't not work from bottom up, but it works a top-down. Okay, so I Understand our case that open stack is a tool to implement open cheese transformation Then my question is do you have a strategy to address levels in managers because from? bottom up in my case I have failed so the question is is What what can we do to better? Kind of educate and convince Like management level that that this is an important Like digital transformation and open stack as part of that is is is a good choice. Is that okay? Yeah, so I think that you know, that's that kind of gets into some of the a couple of times we've mentioned research that we did this year and And part of what what we wanted to do with that research was to To gather information about like what what the general population of it decision-makers thought about open stack and open source and and You know the concepts of open infrastructure that we had and and a big reason of why we want to do that is we wanted to understand You know what what the perceptions were and what? Like what approaches we should be taking to educate? You know sea levels and managers around that kind of thing and so, you know, that's research that we did The summer and kind of early fall and coming out of that we've actually learned I think some pretty valuable things that have influenced some of the Some of the content here some of the the marketing that we did around the summit here And we're gonna carry that forward over that the next couple of years And and I think if you look at some of what we talked about in the keynote yesterday You know that like today was was like Mark said it was it was all about the contributors And it was very much oriented around that Yesterday was was more focused on on businesses and talking about business value and the research gave us I think some some clues as to the kinds of things that that we need to be highlighting as the the benefits of open Stack and open infrastructure, and I think that that you know It's this is it's an interesting thing for open source communities because they start from from from with a very strong developer focus and you have an early adopter focus and you have you know in some cases those early adopters are bottoms up kind of Adoption stories, but the I think that as we've gotten to the phase that we're at now We have really great use cases from from non-tech companies like like Ehrlich in for instance an SBA be and we have Leaders like we had you know the CEO of Ehrlich in yesterday who spoke and we had the CIO of SBA be You know the bank in Sweden who spoke and and that's kind of some of some of what we're starting to do is getting that level of leadership speaking and and sharing how they are succeeding and what they're finding value at and then using what we've learned from the research around the the real value of of open stack and open source to Enable faster innovation and more flexibility and control in the business and to try to drive those messages I think you know we've done a little bit of that But I would say that that yeah We've been much more focused in the developer space and kind of the bottoms-up approach And so we have definitely have room for for improvement and and we're gonna we're gonna be trying to improve that and you can Give us your feedback as we go along for sure Tell us if you think it's helping or not or if it's making it worse What else other questions do I need to start calling on people? Oh, we got stuff. There we go stuff So I've heard a couple of people asking me and I don't know why I don't have an answer. So I Bring it back at you. What do you think? are e What would be the established user groups who have? You know made a history and contributing to open stack and build their own following with open stack now with the shift to open infrastructure they face also established user groups with Docker focus or Kubernetes focus, how can they how do you think they can bring in or reach out to these other communities? To re-establish their rhythm One up. It's actually a really a really good question that we have we've discussed some internally which is when you get to that kind of That that that real local grassroots type of an organization What do they care about and and I think that in a lot of cases they do they they do tend to gravitate more towards towards specific technologies and and so, you know, I I don't think that that an open stack user group that is you know, that's like doing well and and You know like has a has kind of like a good level of activity and engagement and everything Should necessarily Say like oh well I have to change that now and be an open infrastructure user group because that's that's definitely not to I don't I don't think what What we're saying You know it what I will say is that when I look at some of the open stack user groups some of them have have already kind of naturally expanded into more things and we have at least Marie who's sitting down here that has run one of the one of the Largest and longest running User groups in the community and and they do open stack and cloud native and now and you know And so so I think that that again It's you really have to look at at the the makeup of the group itself and and make a decision about You know, what's what's going to be most effective for that? Is it makes sense to start to pull in some other technologies as it makes sense to do joint events with some other user groups like an open-infra-day or Does it make sense to just kind of expand the full-time? you know like Scope of of of your group. I don't I don't know that that there's that there's one single Answer that'll be right and since we're just at the beginning of this. We I Don't know, you know, I don't have like a proven Strategy for it. I have one more question The open open infrastructure opens like foundation and cloud native foundation. What is the relationship? What's the outlook? How do you see it? And for example some of the challenges, you know opens like summit now conflicts with the gunner Cloud native in China. You know, it's happening all this week. So how do you guys see this working on going forward? yeah, yeah, I mean that that timing is unfortunate and You know, it's there are a lot of events and and it's hard to to prevent zero overlap when when there are like, you know There's so many events happening across the the technology landscape in terms of of the like the the the CNCF I think that that you know what what The way I think about it is ultimately, you know, we exist to enable Technology development, you know, that's kind of the purpose of the foundation is to help help software good software be produced and adopted and and when I look at at the the set of CNCF projects, you know, kind of the core one is Kubernetes and there's tons and tons of of just Opportunities for for collaboration and integration there and and so that's you know, that's what we focus on is How do we how do we look at at making the technologies better and work better together? And that's something that within within the community overall. I think that we see we see more and more opportunities Along those lines if you look at at the most recent version of the user survey for the question that we ask about What workloads are running on top of OpenStack? It's like well over half of them are running Kubernetes now the people who answered that question Which isn't everyone in the survey to be clear, but It is a significant portion of OpenStack clouds out there are running Kubernetes So, you know, we owe it to our collective users to to sort of work together and solve the the technology Integration points because there's clearly something of real value when you when you get these these tools working together So I think like that's you know, that that's really the the the approach that we have is We exist to build software that's useful and together our software is actually even more useful So how do we how do we make sure it works well together? Yeah, and I just wanted to make a point too It's kind of relevant to the the user group question and some of the OpenStack days as well as like our summit and you know, especially having the overlap this week But yes, we we absolutely want to like make our events and everywhere that our community members collaborate more Inclusive and I think like changing the name to the open infrastructure summit really just Recognizes the direction that it's been going, but it's not just about like how many open infrastructure user groups Can we get out there or how many people can we get to come to our summit? We have to go out into these other communities and make the effort So that's something that we've really been focused on this last year whether it's like Terry's saying making the effort at the community level to Contribute to Kubernetes to go really engage with their community members When KubeCon was in Austin last year Terry and quite a few other people from the OpenStack community. He actually like arranged this Meetings with some of the Kubernetes community leaders to just talk about things that kind of a higher level of community management and Organization and really helped build some strong relationships there. So it's not Like just like the foundation executive layer and it's not just about like let's get you know Let's try to have everyone come to the open infrastructure event We have to go out into all these different places and we have to put in the effort to go into other people's communities And and work well there too. So Kubernetes is one of the very few project that is openly Developed outside of OpenStack and and I feel like we had a lot of experience to share of their How they how they did it how we did it tried to try the experiences and that was a really interesting Thing to go to and the discussions we had there like they were They were extremely happy on both sides. We were extremely happy on both sides to have them because there is just no forum for having Those discussions. So we have been having those discussions in first at the OpenStack Summit in Boston and then at KubeCon in Austin or yeah, I can't too much trouble We did that at two OpenStack summits to KubeCon's and that was extremely useful for Comparing notes and and how we learned a lot about how they did things They learned a lot about how we did things and I think the two communities got stronger By exchanging that kind of information. So it's great Yeah, I don't know if we've mentioned specifically here that the the gate testing that's now in place where Right now when new versions of Kubernetes are tested they do not ship unless it works on OpenStack and that's You know joint development effort between the Kubernetes community and the OpenStack community Chris Hodges I believe here somewhere does a lot of that has done a lot of great leadership work and getting that together So similar to the way that new versions of Kubernetes won't ship unless it runs on Amazon or Google Cloud or Azure OpenStack's right in that list as well. And it's not just a list It's a set of specific tests that validate that they work together. So making so that's just kind of a proof point I think that above all the you know tweets and whatever else that people Get frothy about around different different projects and want to think of them as different different Competitors or whatever. There's real work going on to just make them work together And that's what users actually want just make the stuff work. Don't fight And and then we'll all we'll all be happy. So that's that's the directions heading which is which is awesome And I think we may be out of time. I'm sure one minute. There's somebody who has a short question Okay Any last questions All right, you're all having a good time with OpenStack Okay, yeah, awesome. Thanks. Thank you everyone for for coming to the summit and coming to the session. We'll see you around