 Hello and welcome back everyone, the team of this event necessarily takes a bit of a look back at what the Banking Union has achieved and where it might have fallen short. Our next panel however jumps ahead to the future to take a look at banking in 20 years time, what that might look like and what that might mean for all of us. Let me hand over now to our moderator, journalist Jennifer Baker, who will introduce our panel. Thank you very much indeed, it is a delight to be here. As you said for this panel, we are looking to the future, which means we are looking ahead at Banking 2040. So there are no wrong answers, which is wonderful for my panelists as experienced as they are. So I'm very pleased to introduce next to me Patricia Boydons, who is the Innovation Consultant and Vice President at FinTech Belgium and the FinTech Ladies Ambassador here in Brussels. David Martin is a Consulting Strategy and Regulation Partner at Deloitte in Spain. And finally we have Marilyn Piccaro, who is Director of Innovation, Conduct and Consumer's Department at the EBA. Thank you all very much for being with us. Now we want this panel to be quite lively, you're going to look into your crystal balls and tell us what you see for the future and what might be coming down the road and hopefully a little bit of what you would like to see coming down the road. And we want to the audience of course to ask questions using the app, using their online tools and here in the room. But we're going to kick this off, but I'm going to ask you all for your elevator pitch, your three minute, this is what I think is going to happen and why. Patricia, I'm going to start with you. Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot, Jennifer. Yeah, what's my elevator pitch three minutes then I would say the absolutely trend I see is open finance and open finance, meaning open data, and of course data control. Because we had now the data X and February this year. And of course the aim is set to make more data available because data availability is utter most important for the financial services industry, because all these new technologies like AI and you have machine learning and all the connected devices. So with this data, they can generate of course new financial products and services, but it's only possible when data is of course accessible. So open finance I know is also within the EU digital finance strategy. So I know it's one of the pillars. So that's what I'm explicitly referring to this here and now. Because, you know, we had already PSD to so there is already the reinforced data portability, but that only reflects, excuse me, the current accounts at transactional data. But what I'm referring to is also make this data available of all financial products in services. So not only the current accounts, but of course add also savings accounts, investment accounts, but financial services doesn't stop with banking. It also goes beyond. So I'm also aiming towards pension schemes towards insurance policies. So with this open finance, people can take of course control over their own financial situation. And I have of course this holistic view on their financial situation because with open data and with all those new technologies, of course, technology like AI, you can run the algorithm in order to see if your investment portfolio is still in balance with your own risk profile, for instance. Or maybe you are over insured or maybe worse under insured. So open data, new technologies, and that's the way to go forward. So I would say PSD2 then comes PSD3. No, not even open banking one. No, we need open finance one. That's what I mean. And with the data, with the new technologies, then we can build a whole new and better, of course, financial product and services. More tailored made that be a more transparent, cheaper, of course. And of course, widely accessible and available because financial inclusion, education, education by giving those insights in those new dashboard or other products that will be possible. So that's a bit my elevator pitch. Thanks. Thank you. I'm sure we will talk about some of those issues as well as we go through our discussion. David, what's your vision of the future? Hello. I want to thank the SRB and the ECB first for inviting Deloitte to the conference. I think it's an honor to be in this first joint conference that marks the 10th anniversary of the Banking Union. So grateful to be here. We were discussing the previous panel the 10 first years of the Banking Union and then we're looking at the next 20 years. I think banks are prone to change. They've been here with us for centuries. I think not many companies can say that. So one should assume that they will be changing with circumstances, society, technology, data and everything that comes. And that's what we're going to talk about. I think we look at the last 10 years and a lot has changed. We have bigger banks. We have less banks. We have, it was saying before, an architecture and ecosystem we didn't have before. We didn't have the SRB. We didn't have a resolution authority or a joint supervision. So if we look at the project, what the industry will be in 20 years, who knows really? It's very difficult. I think we can kind of infer from the challenges that banks are facing now what could be the future. And I think the banks are facing a number of important challenges like becoming the center of the relationship with the customers. I think they're as important as they are. They're not at the center as other competitors are at the moment. So keeping the role is essential. Data will play a very important part in that. Achieving sustainability objectives. I mean, by the regulator they've been put in a position where they have to be contribute to the ESG policies of the European Union. And that they're a very important agent in that change. Emerging technologies. We'll talk about that a lot in this panel. I think banks have traditionally invested a lot in technologies. The speed of change is becoming incredible at a time where they've been low negative interest rates, low margins, small profitability. So that kind of makes it more difficult to cope with the big boys in technology. Talent management. I think when I was younger working for a bank was a very good option. I don't think nowadays is what the kids have in mind when they finish school or university. There are other startups and there are other places where they want to go. So banks have a challenge in keeping talent. Increased competition for new players. Not so much existing players or peers, but new players like particularly in payments. We see with open finance we're going to see animals we haven't seen before. Of course, big tech and other things. And of course, new business models have emerged as a result of regulation, but not only. And in terms of the trends, I think I would agree. Obviously data, what we call it, there will be two main drivers. The data economy. So everything about data, who controls the data. I think banks are in a very good position. They have the trust. They have a lot of transactional information from clients. So it's not that they're not at the data center, but they need to be more so if they want to be at the center of the relationship with a client. And then, of course, the digital economy. I think digital economy is very important in terms of the... We talk about blockchain, we talk about crypto, we talk about internet, the new internet, artificial intelligence. So those two trends will, I think, will pave the way for the next 20 years. Well, thank you. And Marilyn, your elevated pitch for calling it, but your opening thoughts on what you see in your crystal ball. Yes, thank you. Thank you for giving the world. And I'm honored to be here and share my thoughts. So I would list four or five key things that I have in mind for the next 20 years' perspective. First of all, it is likely that we are reconsidering what is a customer-centric service model or customer-centric approach to the financial services overall. And what I mean by that is a customer most likely in the future is not the one who is chasing the bank or chasing any service provider. It should be seamless for him or her all the needs the customer has are kind of predicted and managed by the financial institutions without direct orders from the customer. And I will elaborate later what this potentially could mean and then what are the considerations here. Secondly, my thinking is around financial services for everyone. Unfortunately, I still see that we are largely fragmented based on some years old data by the World Bank still indicating that across the European Union we still have 30 million adult citizens without access to the regulated banking services. Most recent numbers most probably are underway. So I'm just wondering what those 30 million adults then are doing and they are actually excluded then from other opportunities they would have either in the job market or social benefits and we are actually increasing the poverty, inequality, etc. So basically banking for everyone, despite your geographical location, gender, income level whether you are in the big city or rural area. Going forward here, thirdly, now if looking more to the financial institutions side most processes are automated or automatic. So obviously servicing all the customers in the world or all the customers in the European Union financial institutions must think about their unit cost and there is hardly room for the manual works. And that also applies now to the other side, controls, monitoring and also policy development and the supervisor activities. As it's often I use the term invisible controls or invisible compliance. How we ensure that we actually meet all the requirements that we are not even able to catch up with but in a way that it doesn't require manual work. So that's one topic to discuss bit later. And lastly I would touch the, obviously the awareness. So those young citizens who are today in the kindergarten are the ones who are making difference in 2040. So what we are teaching them now and whether we are teaching the right things for them for the future. Yes, I would stop here. Well I wasn't expecting any easy answers but I think we've got a lot to dig into there. I think Patricia let's start with, it sounded to me that a lot of you were thinking in terms of evolution rather than some sort of crisis driven revolution. But I think we also had ideas of innovation and that sort of innovation needs to be driven by something. And I'm curious what do you see as sort of the main challenges or the main drivers to sort of innovation in the FinTech sector and is there anything that regulators or policy makers could be doing to foster an innovation friendly environment that also still protects consumers? Yeah, I think the word has already fallen in the other panel during the last debate. And of course one of the biggest trends of innovation that we see right now has everything to do with decentralized finance and Web 3.0. So of course my, let's say my speech was all about open data. Of course those technologies that distributed the ledger technology needs data. Otherwise it can't work. And also David already briefly touched it upon the Web Point 3. It's all about digital economy but also the ownership economy. So it will be, of course, Rome wasn't built in the day and evolution also comes in waves but in 20 years time for sure decentralized finance will change the way how we look at money now. It will be a completely other setting. Decentralized meaning that now financial institutions and its support or the Exco that takes a strategic decision, decentralized finance you will have maybe one now taken as a community. They will take the decision based on their rules and their procedures and there will be no one individual who can break the blockchain. That's not what this technology is built. So I think that will be the game changer. But of course regulation also must follow. We have Mika luckily because I know a lot of fintechs. A lot of fintechs also involved in blockchain projects in digital assets, in cryptocurrencies. They are really demanding this regulation because it needs to be transparent. There needs to be customer protection of course. They are really asking for this kind of legislation and it will be the same for other decentralized finance products and services and we need regulation because also we need standardization. As you know now we have more than 18,000 different kind of cryptocurrencies and of course not all of them are going to survive. But we need the regulatory framework also for the standardization. It was only recent in the press that Meta has joined kind of a Metaverse forum with several other important players like Microsoft, like Alibaba. And now they are trying to build one central light, one standard for standardizing the Metaverse. So it means for me regulation standardization and that's the way forward with this new web 3.0. Well I'm going to build on what you've just said because I want to bring Marilyn in from the regulatory side and ask what sort of regulatory rules, what sort of supervision do we need to see with this sort of innovation that we're talking about. And in fact I see here a question in from our audience already asking about whether there's a concern between the lag between the old people as they put it, making legislation and the young people developing banking and finance technology and some old people making innovative things as well. So how can the EU regulate if they're not even aware of the tech? It's a challenge Marilyn I presume. Yes I have a honourable role to be a director for the Innovation Department at EBA so we are the ones who should understand and write guidelines covering the innovation. I don't consider myself too old yet and I can confirm that most of my team members haven't asked their age but it seems to be not old yet and they're not retiring anytime soon so rather young enthusiastic team. But there are a few obvious challenges obviously so that regulation is always about the past, I mean maturity is about the past. So this is at least how we practice a large lease because it's very hard to regulate something that potentially comes into the future. I'm not saying that it's impossible so this is one idea for me to figure it out how we could regulate the future that is not here yet but I guess the first step here is not to be late. It would be already an accomplishment if me, with the team and other colleagues would come out timely with short guidance, some explanations, even training events and therefore having this dialogue, open dialogue with the market participants and building the way to the future together. I do have a private sector background in that sense that I largely, I think I know what I'm doing also from the banking perspective but the truth is that obviously the world is changing fast and there is not a single person who could be always up to date the most recent developments and that's the beauty of the game so we need to do it together and having this dialogue and then frequent interaction not to be afraid of each other because eventually we are actually on the same side. David, I wanted to ask you about the impact of these imaginary, at this point, new technologies that might have on your business and also the challenges around the protection of data and again the audience is beating me too at every time there's another question here asking why should I share such sense of data with an unknown and maybe not properly supervised company? There is a need for trust, isn't there? Absolutely, I think one of the two drivers that I see is data and the digital economy and data is certainly at the core of the present and the future I think, right? We have an ambitious agenda in Europe in terms of opening data which was in the case a few years ago and that is in process we have, I would say, the Digital Market Act, the DEA and the open finance we have before the PSD2, now PSD3 so we have a number of pieces of legislation that are in the business of opening the data across industries not only in the financial industry but also across industry and that's going to generate a new economy that's what we call the data economy. That has benefit opportunities, brings opportunities but also has challenges for the industry, right? In terms of the opportunities, the additional data that the banking industry doesn't have and hopefully will get through this new framework will allow them to be more efficient in terms of operation will allow them to design better products for the clients because they will know their clients better than they do already and it will allow them to assess risk in a better way with more information, not just the information that they have on their record. So it has potential enormous benefits for the players in the banking industry but also it comes with challenges. The challenges are that as it happened with I think in the last 10 years we've seen a lot of concentration in the traditional banks but we've seen a lot of new things happening in the payment area and I think PSD2 is partially responsible for that has brought new animals in the room that were not there I think open finance will bring even more animals in the room we cannot think of new business models so I think it's a great opportunity for banks but it's a great opportunity for new players that have not been born yet and will be born as a result of open finance so I think open data will bring more competition for banks I would say banks are in a good position they have a lot of data already maybe not so much as the big tech for instance although those business that have placed themselves at the center of the data, they generate data so the banks have to change I think they're not too bad positioned to do that and lastly I think the challenges are in managing that data so there is the issue of intellectual property and the protection of businesses so there should be some protection therefore it's not a free lunch where information will flow anywhere so that information needs to be duly protected and also GDPR and also personal data as well so there's a balance between opening up the economy creating a new economy which is going to benefit everyone public authorities, banks, other companies, customers and at the same time protecting data that is sensitive and trust and trust is the definition of a bank so I think if they play the cards right I think they have very good credentials to be at the center of this new economy Marilyn I want to create an image for the future so as a citizen, if we could have a digital wallet where all our data is literally placed and obviously I'm owner of my own data and I can pick what type of data with whom I want to share and I also may choose to withdraw that and the question of trust, it's really up to me to decide whether I trust the small player some innovative start-up or I'm more traditional I want to have a company with old traditions with long legacy partnering with me but the question is what I get as a return because I give my data whether I experienced a super user-friendly environment where all the transactions and all my financial affairs would be managed behalf of me maybe I would be interested but I may be also more conservative side and say that I don't actually want to share my data I want to do my own transactions I want to make my own decisions I don't need any predictive models algorithms etc so I guess the picture for the future is really for the citizen to decide where, how and when we are sharing our data and based on that, obviously different things could be built on Thank you Well, Patricia, to build as well on what Marilyn is saying a lot of these sort of services that we're talking about sound like they're going in the direction of democratising finance and providing access to those 30 million or so people as you said maybe are not connected they all build on the backs of other things such as access to online services access to the internet and an educative knowledge to understand how to use it how do we build all of that into our societies with the idea of keeping the trust there Yeah, I think of course trust is extremely important and like Marilyn said, as a consumer you must of course give your consent and you have full control on to whom you will give that data Of course, when I look at tomorrow we will have this, of course hopefully widely spread new technology that it's called blockchain and it is also this distributed ledger because it's controlled by a community and you can't break, you can't change anything that will also provide those trust I never say technology always needs to serve a purpose or the business problem or a customer's issue or whatever you mustn't do blockchain for hey, I'm a bank and I'm doing a blockchain project that's not the aim, not to have a sustainable future but technologies like blockchain can also help to build that trust and build it within society and have a decentralized financial system and I'm also very curious how that will relate to our hopefully very strong European banking union Well, I see here an audience question that in fact Marilyn answered and I've only just noticed it If data is the new gold, what will you pay me as a consumer? I think perhaps it's in terms like ease of use choice and flexibility I think is probably the answers that you were summarizing there Another question that we've got coming in that's getting a lot of thumbs up is could you talk about the compatibility of digitalization with ESG developments? Patricia, perhaps you could touch on that Yes, that's a very, very important topic an issue of course we all read it in the newspaper that of course the bitcoin is kind of the worst electronic crypto money that there is absolutely, that's true it's consuming too much energy mining bitcoin miners are also in let's say some exotic locations where there is no real sustainable green economy that is already present there they even reopen I've read old carbon electricity I think providers so that's not a good thing but hey, bitcoin already exists for several years in this like I said innovation it comes in waves and it evolves all the time so now we also have other blockchain technology like Ether with Illyrium and you have the famous app Proof of Work and the Proof of Work to add up on the blockchain that's what demands so much electricity and computing power of course and now we evolve also to the proof of stake what's less electricity consuming so of course we are evolving and I also think that if I may speak for the fintech community and a startup community I think all those people are taking ESG very, very seriously and also I know even also fintechs who are even also specialized in ESG reporting in making all the requirements also more clearly transparent also for an investor if you want to invest upon it so yes there is a lot of criticism and a lot of things can be improved but we are aware I think the community is fully aware of ESG and I think it's a bit now with the real economy there is a target and everybody is moving and trying to reach the target well of course it's not just crypto mining it's all this data that we're talking about has to be stored and processed somewhere which is energy intensive but on the flip side you may find that actually being able to offer a more sustainable product is a selling point to the next generation who are concerned let's look at one of the other issues that cryptocurrencies have they're sometimes seen with the undertones of criminality David and there's sometimes reputational issues there let's talk about bad actors in general and the problems that we may see in sort of weeding those out what do you see as being the future in 2040 what will that look like? I think I was thinking that the crypto or blockchain started about the same time as the banking union but we did quite a different quite a different career where we are today it's not a very good moment to talk about crypto right now I think my experience is that obviously it's been a story of success and a lot of the actors in the banking community are looking with attention because it looks very appealing the clients are asking for to get some part of the action as well so they feel the pressure but I think they're also very concerned that they're in a different position that those guys that are at the helm of the crypto industry so I think that the whole industry is expecting the first regulation in Europe Mika, I don't know if it's going to be Mika too we'll be happy if we have Mika one for the time being and I think that we'll see what happens it's very early on in terms of where the technology is so I think the technology has to evolve in the same way that internet has taken 20 years to where we are today so it's difficult to predict whether this technology with the energy consumption and stuff is going to stay here forever it has very good attributes the very nature of crypto is a challenge for banks the centralize or the role of a bank is to centralize between two sides and this is the centralize could be a challenge but I think when people think about crypto they just think about blockchain they think about crypto but I think there are other uses that are super interesting for the industry like in areas like trade finance or smart contracts or complex transaction where there is mistrust between the parties I think it will add it will make a lot of sense to use that technology and for the industry to embrace it in certain areas we'll see what happens with profits in those areas but I see crypto as a blockchain as an emerging technology together with the new version of internet 3.0 and artificial intelligence and other technologies so I'm sure banks will embrace it and I hope that after we have a proper regulation they will enter into that digital economy and with them the clients in a safe environment yes, Helen so I may compliment a bit being myself close to 20 years chasing criminals in different roles and I would just point out it's not about the particular mean how funds are transferred really being a young professional we saw huge amount of falsified banknotes later just paper documents forged and obviously this criminal kind of life and criminal way of living and acting this is also developing among other things so I would say that it's not directly related to the crypto or non-crypto so this is just another way of transacting analog to the crypto or even the fourth way of transacting in the future and whatever is the mean we always should think about the risks and basic principles we need to introduce so and that's the challenge with innovation that what is this one page maybe short overview of key principles we all should be aware of and follow even if we don't really know what is this innovation or new product solution is about and that's the regulatory challenge obviously so that how to be proactive enough relevant enough, timely enough for the market participants so using the professional judgment sometimes cut feeling how things could go wrong etc so I'm happy obviously to spend hours on criminal minds and the investigations but most probably this is not the topic for the banking 2040 well I did want to ask you on that I mean you mentioned gut feeling, AI doesn't have any guts but is there a potential for using some of these machine learning or AI or predictive algorithms to combat money laundering or fraud I may obviously take the topic that yes artificial intelligence and obviously it's one of the kind of elements machine learning which is a more understandable way or understandable way of applying technology in a way it has got feeling because it's a supervised application of artificial intelligence which is kind of rule based and it's learning based on historical patterns and information that is given but unsupervised artificial intelligence kind of learns itself you know you don't really know how and when and based on what and in that sense that particularly the money laundering terrorist financing private corruption fraud investigation area any technology that would support analyzing a huge amount of data and suggesting maybe red flags items to follow up is very helpful and I do know that there is already practices out there which are supporting investigation compliance teams to do their tasks Well David you've worked on resolution the same sort of question to you do you see an area where new technologies or new services might actually be able to help in the area of resolution Certainly in what is called the management information system so kind of like the I think like supervision or resolution without information are very just not possible you will be doing your job based on imperfect or past information so I think the fact that the new technology will allow you to have real time access to the whatever you're supervising should make the job easier so I think yes of course I think banking resolution and supervision should both with the industry that they supervise so if the industry is moving in that direction they should also move in that direction otherwise there will be a disconnection between both At this point I want to see if we've got any questions in the room just raise your hand if there's a question you will want to ask yes any others so I get a sense okay too so let's start over here in the center please thank you it would be a rather question to Patricia now one remark and one question you mentioned we will have a lot of data maybe it's my professional damage but a lot of data is not necessarily good I mean the data reliable the quality of the data it's something different than just a lot of data right and that's why my question you mentioned when we have a lot of data speaking about the blockchain and the data is there not changeable when we think about the bailing for example so you do have to do some changes to the data and here's my question what chances and risks do you see coming from the open finance and blockchain for example because we do have to foresee all the risks and try to mitigate them thank you of course that's a good one because yeah of course I'm also not a fortune teller but like I said we need the data to have this innovation going and also we need the regulation because we need the standardization of course in my perception data standardization is also enhancing data quality make it exchangeable between all parties and of course keep the data secure here in Europe we have of course the GDPR the privacy the personal data that's a very very important one of course if you look at the US you all know the big tech the discussions that they already have been yeah but I think it's important for the protection it needs to remain in confident hands and there comes the trust again I think the blockchain technology will will for sure enhance the trust indeed there is a small issue when it becomes on privacy because GDPR says hey you have I have the right to be forgotten yeah I just like I just said the blockchain never will forgets once it's stored in the blockchain you can't simply erase it but I think that's just a small issue for sure we will have a work around or work this out or make that it will work but we need to protect also the EU because if if you look it was also said the EU is looking maybe for digital stablecoin it was also in the press recently that Circle now is launching a euro backed stablecoin in the states where of course our legislation don't apply and they are keeping a euro backed reserves in premises of course in the United States with their financial institutions the blockchain the internet there are no boundaries so therefore we must also protect here to have a strong digital economy but a European also economy because we know to whom we are competing we are competing with states we are of course competing with Asia and as the internet and certainly web 3.0 if it has no boundaries yeah we must secure our own financial stability not only of course for the banks but also for the future for decentralized finance for the lectures thank you for the question I would love to talk about GDPR for days but we will take our second question over here please thanks a lot it was a lot in line with the previous question on indeed that quality and that sources are we from really having good data because we still see a lot of concerns in terms of data quality also we see standardization is still not there so taxonomies help what do you see happening there because when we try to pull that together we need to make sure that we are talking about the same things and how do you see this evolving and how far are we so is it something for the next two five years ten years or is it only for 2040 as you are talking about 2040 banking thank you Patricia I think that's probably directed at you again you can give a short round so I know you don't know what's going to happen in 2040 no no no I sure I don't know but I do know that we need this legal framework because that will help with the standardization if there isn't any legal framework like we see we see Meta and Microsoft already teaming up to create their own standardization that of course also will help but we need to standardize also we have that many crypto currencies for sure there will be there will be currencies that will be completely obsolete along with some maybe let's say some digital economies but there will be the next wave and there will be then a bigger community with better data with where there is for instance this interoperability so that you can go from one metaverse to another but maybe to give you an already a clue on the speed of innovation recently Gardner stated that in 2025 we will spend each one hour in a metaverse universe with Web 3.0 so that's not that's very near future so imagine what in 20 years the financial landscape will look like well I've just a couple of questions online that are very linked asking is there enough interaction between developers and regulators in this dialogue as someone else has pointed out EBA, ECB, SRB, DGFIST, National Central Banks, National Finance Departments who do new technologists and developers interact with what advice do you have for them David? well how to interact yeah and who to interact with I think yeah I think in my organization we've seen the profiles of people working their changing very quickly I mean we have more engineers engineers, data scientists and people like that especially in the areas that we're talking if we think that the future is in data economy or the digital economy you certainly need more of those people rather than lawyers or economists and as I said before possibly supervisors should do the same thing and kind of like reach their human capital with people that are able to understand that language and are kind of like not too distant from what is happening otherwise it could happen like with the crypto that there's a big, big market happening and then the regulation hasn't arrived yet so I think we should try to ideally by engaging in a dialogue limit the time between what's going on in the market and the future that comes after well I think we're almost at the end of time but since we're looking at the future and looking into crystal balls and dealing in magic if I have my magic wand to wave and grant each of you a wish for whatever you want in the banking regulation in the EU by 2040 what would it be Patricia? yeah like I said it must be open finance and then we have that technology can do its job whether it's AI or machine learning or blockchain or whatever of course let's say new business model, new economies that will help and maybe just I want to touch one point because I do have also comments from the fintech community with supervisors I think it's very important that the learning training and of course understanding and building trust it all relates also to the team maybe also of the day too much I hear it that it's purely a one way conversation and you need to be compliant, you need to comply but there are also other possibilities like for instance maybe the UK is a good example there you also have the regulatory sandboxes which are not here present in Belgium and I hear it's more like a two way conversation trying to understand each other and they also try to think along of course within the regulatory framework but you need to understand each other and I think it will also be not a bad idea maybe also to engage some more technical skilled people who know the technology and what to do with it because for most of the people it's like a black box it's not transparent but that's not what the fintech community wants we want also to be that's okay okay my magic wand got lost David what would you like as your wish I think if looking into the future I was looking at banking union maybe in the future it will be financial services union because the way we see it it looks already a bit old maybe when it was we have insurance, we have asset management we have banking but I think things have changed a lot we have new players, we have smaller players we have payments, I think as I said before there's a lot of things happening in the payment space especially it's going forward so I think banks had a dominant position in the past, I think it was a decision made here in Brussels that it shouldn't be like that in the future maybe we can have a more comprehensive view of regulation and supervision with the bodies talking to each other more there are so many people doing things for the industry that is difficult to cope I have a unified, comprehensive view that is positive for the industry that is positive for the customers that will be my I know it's difficult but that will be my wish The question for me obviously is not what I would expect from the regulation but how I plan to execute or how we write guidelines in the future and here I would I do have a dream and then one of those dreams is that if there is any entrepreneurs who are listening or people with innovative ideas so it's obviously very welcome to implement your idea you understand that there is a market there is a scale but then it would be very, very helpful if you have let's say a one-page description what type of guidance or regulatory challenges you are facing with your innovative idea and also that you would come and we would actually understand and we will have a dialogue as we are connected with all the stakeholders so for us it's not the challenge to sit on the same table with the ECB or SRB or national competent authorities we are all there but what we are time to time missing is really understanding what is the developments in the market side and what type of challenge you are facing and I'm glad to think along well thank you all very much I actually don't have a magic wand so I won't be granting you wishes and we don't know 2040 is still quite a long time away and I'd like to remind everyone when I finish a paddle when we are looking to the future when we are talking about innovation that we just don't know Edison didn't invent the light bulb by trying to make a more effective candle so anything could happen all bets are off and a big round of applause to our panellists thank you