 for about five until we've got a couple of people in. Okay. You guys excited? I'm very excited. I was born excited. It's been like a week since we've actually done this. A week! How much can happen in a week on the internet? People can get banned from Twitter. You know, stuff like that can happen. No, nothing, okay. One, two, three. Man, YouTube really wants me to watch this video called Why I Don't Like Ninja because it's recommending it to me twice. Why do they not like Ninja? Ninja is in general or like a show? No, like the Twitch streamer. Oh. Yeah, what's wrong with Ninja? He seems like a nice guy. I don't know. Yeah, but you seem like a nice guy. Oh, yeah. And then people get to know me and then what do they say? I was right. Beautiful, really. He's not like his Twitter profile at all. Venom and unbridled comedy when? I mean, that Venom isn't quite. Oh, yeah. So I didn't even get to tell you guys. Venom is like a full-on horror movie at the beginning. Like creepy music and like this enemy that like stabs the shit out of people and like puts its tendrils on their face and they're like and kills them and they have like a broken leg with a bone sticking out and it like reconnects back like all this gross stuff and you're like, oh, and they're walking towards like a zombie. They think of like, you know, the scary sort of enemies that just fucking walk in a deadline because they just like zombie faced but not zombie walking sort of like determined like, oh, God. And then it's like, what? Doing this now? Doing this? And then just Eddie Brock stop being a pussy and start eating people. And he's like, oh, man, I don't want to do that like falling over and hitting people in the meantime. You're just like, hmm, bit strange. And there's like this rigmarole with an ex-girlfriend and a doctor who want to help Eddie by taking him into the hospital and getting scans and there's like funny shit that happens there and there's a dog who's like annoying and you're just sitting there like, well, and it cuts back to this horrifying creepy monster person who's still like stabbing people and slowly getting towards you. It's like, what am I? It's confusing. So yeah, that's what people mean when they talk about like the tonal mess. I'm not sure. A lot of people are saying that Tom Hardy was the problem as in like, he's playing the character really funny while the film itself isn't. I'm not sure where they're coming from with that because it's like, he's not the only one making jokes. Let's put it that way. But I'd have to watch it again. But yeah, I've told people like I don't have any passion to actually cover it. I came out of the cinema just like, that was a thing. Like, yes. Because I'm not at least like graphically eat someone in the movie. Well, no, every time he eats a head, it's framed so that you can see like just the top of their head and Venom facing the camera and then he like bites towards the camera and then it cuts to him like holding a headless corpse and you're like, okay. That's fucking lame. It is. But he does eat like three people's heads. I think so that, you know, you get some satisfaction. Is Venom knowing for eating heads? I've never actually never seen anything with Venom in it before. That's the thing. I haven't read comics or I mean, I saw Spider-Man 3, but I don't think anybody's going to be saying that that's a great interpretation of Venom. That's the other thing. A lot of people are asking, is it better or worse than Spider-Man 3? And I was just like, how can it be? Well, well, I can't say that anymore. I was about to say how can it be worse than Spider-Man 3, but then I realized half the movies this year are worse than Spider-Man 3. Well, I was going to say it. I feel like for whatever this is worth, I would rather watch Spider-Man 3 than Venom right now. At least Spider-Man 3 has like a couple of good scenes. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Venom is best comedy of the year. I don't know. The Predator is quite good competition for that. Deadpool 2. But that's an actual comedy. But yeah, so Venom, not very good, but also not bad enough that I felt like I needed to do a video at all because there's kind of some stuff in there that I thought was amusing. So much stuff that doesn't make sense though. Like the rules that they just throw out the fucking window all the time. But yes, I wouldn't recommend anybody who likes Venom from the comics to go see this. It's probably going to be frustrating. And they, I shit you not, dude. There's, does anyone know who Carnage is? I'm vaguely aware of Carnage. So at the end of the film, you get your first roll of credits and then there's like a scene and Eddie Brock is like, okay, dude, you got to stay quiet while I go here. Okay. And then Venom's like, okay, man. And they go in and it's like some guy who's like, yeah, he requested to speak to you of all people. I don't know why that sort of thing is very like silence of the lambs prison style thing. And he walks in and is fucking Woody Harrelson with like all this is like a red springy hair and he's like writing Eddie's name in blood on the wall. And it's so silly. He just goes like, you know, Eddie, when I get released there's going to be carnage that it cuts to the credits. And he's like, oh, so I guess that guy's carnage. Tune in for Carnage. It's such a like, oh, you guys, you guys want to be marvel, don't you? It's cute. But yeah, I have no idea how Venom's doing in terms of actual money or whatever. But I seriously didn't even know it was out yet. So that should say a lot. Well, I mean, it's not like they needed this whole Lady Gaga thing going on to try and like make it even worse. But it looks like that. There's this weird campaign where those people are like badly rating Venom to prop up the Lady Gaga movie that's coming out at the same time. Oh, there's a few articles about this and it's like an actual thing where people have been reviewing the film without seeing it and trying to push the Lady Gaga film instead. It's just like, okay, it's strange. So yeah, people do people realize that one film doesn't have to do badly for another film to do well? Yes, it does. Talk about demographics like the people who are seeing Venom versus the people who are seeing the Lady Gaga film is like, yeah, I'm sure everyone who watched Venom is like a hardcore Lady Gaga. Is this a completely opposite group to people? But I mean, you would you would think that that would be like something Marvel and Star Wars fans would do if Star Wars didn't, you know, suck now. Not Lady Gaga and Venom fans. I mean, because yeah, if it was like another superhero movie or whatever, it would be like, oh, that kind of makes sense. But nope. Can you picture a single person who go go to the cinema thinking, I'm gonna I'm going to watch the the Venom film. And although that, you know, it's a tough choice. Now Lady Gaga's on the table, you know. So yeah, if anybody was curious, it's bad, but I'm not planning to cover it. The next thing we should probably just probably have mentioned, I suppose you can say whatever you want about this wolf. But the dishonor wolf has lost his Twitter permanently. Yeah, I I'm perma banned. It's so sad. I was the shooting. It was a couple of two. I sent them to Fringy. Let me bring them up real quick because they were super not bad tweets. They were actually like, you'd think that they'd just become in sense. On Twitter first. Yeah. Well, the first one is are you shitting me? Ford was the one making the I should say I was banned because I defended Kavanaugh. There we go. It'll be fun once he's confirmed and everyone pisses and moans. Yeah. So the first one is are you shitting me? Ford was the one making the claims you retard. She has the burden of proof not Kavanaugh. You really expect them to disprove claims. You have no evidence for to prove them in the first place. How dare you other retards called someone a retard. That is fucked up too. I've called people worse. I know you on Twitter too. And then the second one was a fuck off with demanding proof from the defendant to disprove something that never happened in the first place. So I said maybe due process is a good thing. And I got banned. So there we go. Can't use Twitter. Well, there's your due process. Well, yeah, I mean lesson Lin Wolf. You only say mundane things on Twitter. That's what happens when you defend Republicans on Twitter. Someone even said in the chat, well, for you hating on the Jews again, it's like, no, I hated on the Jews and they didn't ban me for that. I mean, defending Kavanaugh. Like from what I understand of that story is ridiculous. Did you see it? There was a tweet that I would be a good way to. Yeah, rags. You responded to it on Twitter where someone was like, how do I tell my students that they're about to hire someone like him as a justice or whatever. And it's just like, tell them about due process. This is a thing we need. You can't just like God forbid we actually get to the point where it's just people say a thing and then it's true. That's really bad. There is literally no proof at all and her own witnesses are like, this party never happened. It's like, how is this even a thing? Believe women, believe survivors. Oh, right. I forgot about that. Yes. Wolf is permanently off Twitter. You'll never find him on there ever again unless you decide to make a new Twitter. Yeah, which I don't plan on doing because, well, at least not anytime soon because I've genuinely been like a little happier without having to look at Twitter all day. It's actually like weird. I can actually like pretend things are normal. I don't have to hear about people losing their minds over something Trump said. Oh, yeah, crazy. A nice break for you. And then the only other thing that we should probably mention is that the next e-fap, which just sounds so funny to keep saying is going to be about the TRO video. We're finally going to do that. It's been a while, but different reasons stream on my channel, man. YouTube's Borked. Yeah. Rise can't seem to fix it. So we're going to do it as an e-fap now, which by the way, for anybody who actually doesn't know because we never really say it, it stands for every frame of pause just in case anybody here. You should put it in the description. You should put it in the description because some people frame a pause episode. You know, I need to redo all the descriptions for all the older ones as well. I'm very lazy when it comes to my second channel because it's like my my TISM channel. So I like not having to do things on it. But yeah, I'll definitely get around to that. But that's what it stands for. The TISM doesn't come easy. So, yes, that'll be happening. It'll probably be the ridiculously longest one ever because the video is like an hour and 40 minutes. So 24 hour stream, guys. Yeah, we're doing it 24 hour stream for autism awareness, which brings us to the guest we have today. The wonderful cinema sins sins also known. Hi, I was going to say your actual human name, but fine. Just just interrupt me, dude. God, you make such a bad fist. Yes, anyway, how do you do, sir? I'm really good at bad first impressions. Yeah. Yeah. See, I'm not going to lie. I'm a bit more hungover of this than I'd like to be. But I think I'm going to have fun. Should be good. Do you want to? I mean, so for anybody who's like completely unaware, the last e-fat, was it the last e-fat we did? I think it was the one before the last ones. We did movie Bob after that one, didn't we? I think so, yeah. It was the one that killed me. It was awful. It got like a major headache. So there was a... I made my video on Black Panther because I really thought the film was terrible. And cinema sins sins respond to... It's not just cinema sins, right? You've got like a whole bunch of different people you've been responding to. Yeah. And he decided to respond to mine, which I mean, you know, I'm all for it, but we weren't hugely impressed by it. And I think what is it you said you want to do now, sort of make a video, sort of giving your perspective on Black Panther in relation to my videos? Yeah, I went and fucked it with the first video. It was essentially... Because I was on a pretty tight time schedule, which I've now just realized is the reason that the video was bad. So I'm not going to pressure myself to get videos out quickly anymore because fuck that. It made me make a bad video. Oh, I hate being rushed for videos too. Whenever a new film comes out, I'm like, well, I better get this done within a week. And that's still considered extremely late compared to like, you know, Angry Joe and Jeremy Johns and all the people who get it out like day zero. I had to rush to get my Jurassic World 2 video out because you got yours out two weeks before mine. You say that. But that wasn't my fault. But because of the amount of fucking Zephyr shit I had to go through, my video didn't come out until like normal time. Fuck it. Well, yeah, but I had to fight with Zephyr too. We both had to fight with Zephyr. How did that go with Zephyr anyway? Whatever became of that exactly? They just dropped their claims when I... Rags, when you emailed them, I just... Even though I wasn't at 100K at that point, I just took the email address from YouTube that you showed in your screenshot, typed it in, and even though I didn't have 100K, they still helped me. And they looked at... They went to Zephyr and they were like... I emailed them too and said, you need to get with Wolf here because he's getting fucked over and you can't let these companies do that. Yeah, so I contacted them and they sent me an email telling me what they said to Zephyr. And they basically said, we don't really see the legitimacy here. Can you clarify it? And they never replied. And then they just dropped the claim and YouTube reinstated my video. Ugh, so lame. And what happened for you, Mahler, with your... I kept re-uploading until I got past those stupid bots. It finally worked, apparently. I was convinced there was someone manually doing it, but... Well, it says if it's manual or not, isn't it? Wasn't it... It doesn't, didn't it say manual? No, it's way too fast to be manual. They'll manually tell you not... Now I can't remember because... Well, it says it was manual. Well, yeah, because it says if it's either automatic or if it is manual. Yeah, so what happened was I got hit with the music one and then I messed with the music enough or at least what I thought was enough and then I got hit again. So then I took it out entirely and replaced it with the stupid, like, flute version. And then I got hit for just visual content ID on something from the cam vision and I was like, okay, so I removed that. And then, like, the second it was uploaded, it was a manual claim when there was only screenshots. I believe this could be wrong. I can't quite remember because it was a while ago. So then I got rid of every single part that had any kind of cam footage in it just and tried to recreate visuals. Like, for example, when I said that she gets away with being a secret by putting a hat on, like they're in a place where if anyone spots them, they'd be in trouble and she just puts on a hat and you're like, oh, I guess that works. And I just had a clip of a monkey putting on a hat instead because I was just like, I don't know what else I could do for this. I eventually got past and it stayed past. That was my experience, which is fucking annoying. But with Wolf, he would have had to have chopped up the trailers to like nine seconds apiece and put them out of order, I think, in order to get past any bot claims. I never understand them taking down fucking trailers. Like, that's really silly because if someone reuploads a trailer that literally benefits the people that own the trailer, does it not? You'd think, but I guess they think that Wolf's channel is trying to make money off reselling trailers. I don't even have, I didn't even monetize those videos. I didn't have monetized, I didn't even get monetization to work until like a month ago. I've literally had a video take down because I've had a trailer playing one quarter speed in the background as I talk over it and I don't even use the whole thing. It's the BBC knows nothing about fair use, but... Yeah, literally every content creator from like, you know, zero subscribers to 100 billion, like they all, everyone deals with this. And it's all it ever is a game. You're just trying to figure out how to outplay the bots. But if you have manual takedowns, you just fucked. You have to get like a partnership or something. Yes, anyway. And the bots, that's the thing about the bots for YouTube is like they're wrong 98% of the time, which makes you wonder. Well, yeah, because like they often don't restate their claims and they'll often have YouTube be like, yeah, that's not fair. And you're like, Yeah, like almost all my videos are confirmed to be to be good to go. But I mean, like the ones I lose are very rare. You know, it's not that they aren't monetized in the end. It's that, you know, 80% of the views come and go before it can get monetized again. It's annoying for all of us. But yeah, I was going to say we can, I figure we can begin with, I think Black Panther is almost like to the point of terrible where I would put it in the lowest tier. I think we rewatched it. And I would say that it's like, I have trouble choosing between it's Thor the Dark Wild and Iron Man 3. They're like my most hated MCU films. Wolf, what was your take on it? I can't remember. Well, when we watched it the second time, I disliked it even more than I did walking out of the theater. And I'd say, yeah, I'm right there with you. I'd also add Hulk to that list. Oh yeah, I haven't seen Hulk in so long. Like, I forgot what happens in the film. It's, I don't blame you. It's a really forgettable film. And what about you, Rags? I haven't seen it from start to finish nonstop, but I've seen a lot of clips, a lot of clips and things. And what I've seen has not been very good. And finally, what about you, Jay? I think it needs more Rhino milk. Ah, you have to own the meme. It's better that way. But I'm assuming you'd put it in like high, high rankings compared to other Marvel films. I really enjoy watching it. I'm not going to pretend it's flawless, but I think it's a really enjoyable watch. I think, I also think it's like the room. Oh, whoops. I just sent you an invite by accident. Ignore that. More like, I sort of, I can overlook the things that I know are pretty silly in it and just enjoy the story that's being told. I quite enjoy it for that, but it's not, it's not a masterpiece, I would say. I mean, there's definitely good stuff in it, in my opinion, but there's some not so great stuff in there as well. So like, what would you say is your biggest issue with it, Wolf? Oh, man, where do I begin? I just think it's really dumb. I can't really narrow down one single issue because the writing is pretty terrible throughout, but there's just like some parts that are like, okay, that's dumb, like the whole tribal fight. That's a bit of bad writing that contradicts the world, the world building in general is horrendous, but then there's other lines like, kill mongers, throw me in the ocean so I can be with my ancestors. That was retarded. I don't know if you want to contend that, but like most people pointed out, his ancestors are Wakandans. Wasn't his, wasn't he half Wakandan? I'm not sure if I'm going, all right, I'm not. All right, his dad did data local as far as I know. So technically speaking, I suppose his ancestors are everybody with his half ancestors. Yeah, all black people are related to all black people. Well, I mean, you know, that's actually beside the point, like, because technically speaking, we all came from one continent long ago. We're all African once you go back far enough. So basically I can be in that movie and say, bury me in the ocean with my ancestors and it would be just as legit as beer and shit. It's awkward because of the fact that we, this made very clear that his, he's, all of this is motivated by what they did to his dad who's Wakandan and it's like, wait, Wakandans weren't, yeah, and that's another thing that Wakandans referring to white people as colonizers when Wakanda was not colonized at all. Kind of odd. I mean, they must have seen it going on around them though, right? I guess, which means that they never actually, they chose not to do anything. And obviously that's a part of the film to be like, they made this mistake for ages and ages, which again, that sort of comes back to the whole trial by combat stuff. Like I really have trouble believing that across the eons of Wakandans since the Stone Age never had a leader that wanted to spread out. Because Killmonger is apparently the first dude who actually considers doing that, but to an extreme obviously. You see, I have no trouble with the idea of them having like a tradition of that ceremony where they take up, then I got, they ask if anyone wants to challenge for the throne. The only real issue I have with that is that when someone does challenge for the throne, they take it completely seriously. See, I would think it would be like, I would understand them still having tradition if it wasn't sort of a law-based thing. Like, I'm sure that the queen still has like ridiculous powers that if she's tried to use, everyone will be like, no. Is that she? She probably, there's probably some things she can do that if she did, we would be like, what the fuck? And we just didn't know it was an actual rule that hadn't been abolished yet, that's probably true. But like, the idea that they do it alone, there's a lot of ways to break down that part of it that just is so bizarre to me. Like, I'm trying to find a way to not sort of veer off into a different topic by accident because I'm trying to stick to that whole trial by combat thing, the... It's retarded! It's a little bit, it's like, if you're gonna chew, because there's the theory, right? I think you said in your response that they have someone for the fight and then that doesn't necessarily mean the person who fought becomes king. That was what I thought when I watched it. Like, that's not in the movie, but it's possible because my theory would typically be if you're gonna pick the person who's the strongest and best suited to win a trial by combat, they're probably typically not gonna be as suited to lead in a calm and collected fashion. Let's put it that way. I find it ridiculous that they never actually spread out as well, but you know what? Like, I'd probably rather refocus to the more important parts of the film, because if you take that sort of fantasy and just say, it just works that way, leave her alone. You're like, okay, so what story do they tell? And like, my biggest issue personally is probably Killmonger. I think he makes no sense in so many different ways. And it probably is amplified by the fact that he's adored online by a lot of people. Like... Yeah, that was a weird thing because I had the... I mentioned in a video when I was responding to PewDiePie's criticisms of the MCU or rather Marvel in general, but it was mainly the MCU. Because if you took it and applied it to all Marvel films, it didn't really fit. So he was saying, he was talking about how people idolized superheroes and that, and he thinks it's damaging because you can't actually get superpowers and he doesn't seem to think anything, like he seems to think that people just idolized superheroes for their superpowers and then they're gonna get disappointed when they can't actually get them. But that's a whole different thing. Did you find interesting that he's like so hell bent on basically being like, let's provide weapons to these people in these different parts of the world and then take over. And it's like, Killmonger is aware of the Avengers, right? Yeah. This won't be easy. You're gonna get flattened by Iron Man, obviously, several other people. And yeah, like that's one aspect. I suppose I'd rather start at the beginning, which is, what is it? Have you got an answer for what the secret is that everyone had to keep? How'd you mean? So they're like, he's like, why didn't you take the boy back? And then he's like, we had to maintain the lie. Yeah, they had to maintain the lie. What lie? What are they talking about? I assume they're talking about the secrecy of Wakanda, but I'm not really sure how it fits. Well, I was gonna say, wouldn't they kindly just take the boy and then... I don't see how that would reveal the secret. We have a few people going. Where did he go? That's the part that stopped me in the cinema, because as soon as that opening was shown, I was just like, oh, I wonder what the conclusion of that scene would have been. And then obviously they reveal it as the film goes on. And as soon as they made the realization that they left the boy, I was like, why the hell did they leave the boy? Let him find his dad executed on the floor. I was like, what? Why wouldn't they take the corpse? Why wouldn't... Oh, sir. There's a lot of stuff for the year. Because it's just, don't they talk about like how people are supposed to be given a proper burial at some point as well? I don't remember that. I might be mixing up two films. Who knows? I can drop that. The fact that they left him there and then the entire reasoning behind it from both his dad and from Forrest Whitaker is that they had to maintain the lie. They had to keep the secret. And then to Charles, it's like, you were wrong. And it's like, well, yeah, but I agree with you. But why did they do it? What were they wrong about? No, Siro, if they take him back to Wakanda, then people will go, oh, this boy's missing. You know, I bet there's a secret city somewhere in Africa. That's the immediate place they jump to. They're just like, that's it. I knew it. So yeah, there's that part of, and that's what creates Killmonger, right? So that's a huge issue for me. But then if we ignore that, Killmonger's like disappearance for an hour in the film. And we find out that he's doing it all so that he can get Claw, kill him and deliver him to Wakanda as a chip to get in sort of thing. That's what Killmonger's doing from the beginning of the film to the end, let's say. Or at least to the middle. So why didn't he do that to Claw immediately? Why did he allow him to get that weird bit of vibranium to then trade with Thingy? And he's not even involved in any of that bit, if you remember, like the car chase and stuff. Like Killmonger's just, what is he, what's Killmonger waiting for? Because it's like, Claw gets captured and that allows Killmonger to then kidnap him from them and take him. But it's like you already had Claw and then you let him go on this crazy adventure and now you're taking him back to go. It's like, why didn't you just do that in the beginning? I don't know. Maybe it's just what he was doing anyway. Just what he was up to. Because he could have been killed. If Killmonger was killed by Black Panther, that would have, no, sorry, not Killmonger. If Claw was killed by Black Panther in the car sequence and then taken back to Wakanda, that would have screwed over Killmonger's plan completely. See, if I had to essentially write a scene for the movie, like guess what is going on? I would say maybe Killmonger thinks that if he draws attention to Claw before he kills him, that the Wakandans will care more when they kill, because it's like they've dealt with Claw in the past, but if they make him like an immediate issue, if they make him sort of a headline and then he takes him out and brings him to Wakanda. I mean, maybe. That's one thing you could do, but I would definitely have put Killmonger in the car chase scene in some way to have him trying to puppeteer it in some way. Because the other angle is that somehow Killmonger knows that there is a faction in Wakanda that want Claw dead more than anything, like the guy from Get Out, he's like he's desperate to get Claw dead. Like, okay, how did Killmonger know that, first of all? And second of all, it's like the, if you had redone the film in a way that Killmonger was like, right, what I'm gonna do is set it up so that Claw can be captured and then stop Black Panther from being able to pull it off. So it humiliates him in Wakanda and then I come in with the victory, which I think would make more sense, but like that doesn't happen at all. Yeah, see, the thing is, I like Killmonger as a villain, but I like him more just because of his presence rather than anything else. I just think he sort of carries the scenes he's in. Do you like the swaying he was doing whenever he walked around? I did not notice that. I pitched on it with Wolf. Yeah, it's like he has to move his entire body from left to right with every single step he takes. A bit weird. Is this gonna be one of the things where I go back to watch the film and I can't unsee it? Maybe. I certainly noticed it. I know Wolf did, but... Yeah, so there's those elements. He was pretty lucky that he wasn't killed on the doorstep of Wakanda because they're very selective about that sort of thing. Then he was lucky that T'Challa actually accepted the trial by combat when there was really no benefit to him doing that. It was a very strange choice. I would like to just see the other version of the movie where T'Challa says no and he goes, oh, fuck, and that's the end. Yeah, that's right. There was a lot of little things that could happen that would have done that sort of thing. And then there's T'Challa losing to him despite using the standardized weapons for their culture that T'Challa should be basically have been learning about for his whole life, which was a bit odd to me. I understand that Killmongers, they trained whatever specialist person, but you'd think that he'd probably lose in that environment. Maybe, maybe not. That's not a huge issue compared, but... I mean, everything we've already covered sort of just destroys him as an element of a villain to me. I'm just like, yeah, none of that makes any sense. He's just here because he's here. And, you know, that's not even including his lines about being like, if we got to kill their children, then we kill their children. It's like, oh, wow, okay. I mean, that's where he's the villain, right? Well, of course, that's a very villainous thing to say, but obviously, I think I say in my video, it's just like, why were people saying that this guy is like the greatest villain in Marvel MCU? That's like such a cartoonish thing to say, but like, we're going to destroy the entire... Doesn't he say we're going to rule it right? And he's like, you're going to rule it right if I kill all the corpses of children. Like, good luck, mate. Oh, no, that's truly, that's just, that's before, you know, kill everyone, then start ruling right. Yeah, yeah, we'll set our principles once we've killed all the other people. But yeah, I think that's probably my biggest issue with Black Panther without covering more of it is Killmonger is probably one of the crappiest villains, not because, like I would say, because of inconsistencies and just like a fucking terrible implementation compared to there are other villains who are like characterless, but they're consistent in the, if they're a cartoon, like the Dark Elf from Thor 2, he's like, I can't remember what his plan is. He wants to like destroy everything or whatever. I can't remember anything about that entire film, really. Exactly. I can remember Thor was on a train at one point and that was quite funny and that's about it. Yes, I believe that is a thing that happens. I can't remember. I actually watched that again within the last month that I've already forgotten all of it just to get a refresh, but whatever, it doesn't matter. He's like a crap villain, but he's consistent from what I remember. He's just not very good. He's like, oh, he's not very exciting. Let's put it that way. See, I think Killmonger was really exciting and I would take him over a sort of much duller villain that makes perfect sense any day. I might agree with that, like, but I'd still say, like, I'd still have to be honest and be like, yeah, it's still bad though. Like, I'd probably, maybe I'd enjoy it more but, because like my point overall is that Black Panther is poorly written. Like, as much fun you can get out of it. Like, yeah, sure, I wouldn't stop anybody. I personally was really bored watching Black Panther and then thinking about it started to frustrate me. That was my personal experience. Well, the first time I watched it, I did fall asleep. I have no comment on the film. I was just incredibly sleep-deprived. But, you know, maybe, maybe there's something there. So, I did have to go and re-watch it to, well, I re-watch any film that I'm talking about, but I did specifically realize when I was halfway through it, oh, shit, I haven't seen this part before. Oh, well. I fell asleep when I was first watching it right after Shatala died. If you skip the entire part with the car chase and the weird area where they trade the vibranium stuff, I think the movie still makes enough sense. You just have to, you know, fill in the part where they capture claw. And it probably would have been a bit more, like, do you remember the bit where the car gets exploded and like the girlfriend is on like the driver's seat and it so slowly slides across the road in a very, like, Looney Tunes fashion? Yeah. It's very odd. Like, it's the kind of thing where it's just like, huh. I was seeing that just kind of like thinking, hmm, someone made the decision that that should happen. Yeah. But anyway, if anyone else has anything to say, I was going to say, like, we can watch someone's actual video on, I guess, explaining why Black Panther has the best Marvel villain. We've covered Captain Midnight before. I've never been impressed with his videos, but I've already seen it too. What other videos has he made? The last one we did with him was he was defending Han Solo film. He was saying that it's not as bad as people are making out to be. It wasn't a great defense. In fact, we by the end of it agreed with a lot of his points because he criticized the film. Do you remember that? No. It's like one of the first e-faps or whatever. He basically like starts recognizing a bunch of flaws with Solo and he lists them all the row. We were just like, yep, yep. Oh, let me see. Was that the one where he like showed a picture of the two guys who are originally going to make Solo and then rags made a comment, something to the effect of, this looks like a younger version of me or something. I remember. Is that the one? Because I can remember every single word that Jared Genesis has ever spoken, but I can't remember what video that you're referencing. I mean, I don't know if that's indicative of the video, but let's maybe we'll just give this one a shot because I haven't actually seen this video yet, but I've been, we nearly watched this a couple of times just because I've always wanted to see a video explaining how Killmonger is awesome. But here we go, I guess. Black Panther. Let me tell you a story. Okay. It's about a young boy born into a royal family but raised in poverty. His father was murdered by his own brother, the king of a secretive, powerful nation. After being left behind, he was trained as a great warrior. Vowing that one day, he would return to his homeland, destroy the evil king that brutally killed his father and become king himself. Finally, letting the rest of the world share in the wealth and life-changing technology that his uncle's family. Wow. Okay. That's a really nice way of putting, kill the entire world. Take over. Look at the way he's done this. It's like a little halo. Yeah, good guy. He's just searching for justice. The way we, I like the generalization, right? So it's like he was left behind after the evil king killed his dad sort of thing. And it's like, yeah, but we have no reason for that to happen. And T'Chaka was actually a pretty good guy too from what we know in the MCU. It's just a confusing thing that he did. How dare you purple wash Killmonger right here? Yeah, what the fuck? I think he might have drawn these things himself. It's a nice little style. Hey, come on. Where's your stupid little candle hair? Candle hair. Here's the thing. You can take any character, be they a villain or a hero and reduce them to the most basic possible explanation of their character and say that in general, it's good. Well, let's do it. But their depiction is everything. I'll see how long it takes for you guys to see who I'm talking about. But it was, let's say an old warrior who had seen... Kitty Garland. No. Who had seen the stagnation of his government and saw to overthrow a League of Assassins who were actively destroying his beloved civilization after an attempt at murdering... They attempted to assassinate him once they found out he was trying to bring positivity to his people and thus he was able to... They failed and he was able to counterattack and erase them from history and thus start his beautiful civilization in exchange. Bilbo Baggins? No. I mean, I was trying to remain vague, but maybe... Oh, someone in chat's already guessed it. A lot of people have. That would be Palpatine. It's... You can describe anybody, as Rags just said. I mean, people are just a hitler. I think what I said probably applies. But yeah, if we just leave out certain bits, it does sound like a nice little story, doesn't it? Again, if you just talk about the general, then... Sheave did nothing wrong. Sheave did nothing wrong. It's just a strange first name for that. Sheave Palpatine. He had greedily kept secret. This doesn't sound like the story of a villain, far from it. No, it doesn't sound like the story of a villain because of the way he just described it. Because you took out a whole lot of valuable concepts. Missed the bit where you threatened to kill children. But he is the villain. Black Panther. In fact, this has the structure of a classic hero's journey. The poor orphan boy going on an adventure to defeat a murder... Going on an adventure to kill children. You can't, you just, you can't leave that bit out. I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. There is ruler with ancient mystical powers. Do you know what I genuinely think that they fucked up when they put that line in Black Panther? They should have had him say a speech without mentioning kids. Because I feel like when they put it in... They could kill the women and the children too when everyone's like, sounds good. Everyone on the council has like, looks like, oh shit, what the fuck? If they had not had that bit and just had him say that we'll kill them if they deny a sort of thing. That's enough. We're gonna say, yeah, that's a villain. You don't need to be like, by the way, kids too. It's like, oh, alright. George Lee is dead. Maybe we should rethink our... I think it's as overt and silly that Anakin executes. Do you think Killbunker likes sand? At least Anakin felt some remorse after doing it. Yeah, but Killbunker never actually killed any kids, Wolf, okay? He was all 12. Well, he said he wanted to. True. But of course, telling the story this way leaves out some very important pieces of information. Like the fact that our hero has killed countless people and seems to really like it. Or that his final plan, while admirable in some ways... Hitler. Are you admirable in some way? Well, hey, Hitler was an admirable guy, just saying. I think genuinely, not even trying to be hyperbolic, I would like to ask him, could you look at Hitler in any way and say some of the stuff he was doing was admirable? His paintings were nice. He liked dogs, he was nice to animals. He was trying to bring Germany back to being a full power. You could somehow twist it that way. He was trying to save his country from, you know, stagnation, something like that. White power. Public health and safety. He continued the Audubon project. And if he agrees with that, I'd be like, well, at that point, you just don't even need to... Just don't even bother. He had a rockin' fashion sense. I love what he said. I had to leave a few things out. I was like, yes, yes, you did. Will lead to the death of thousands, if not millions of people. And that when you really get down to it, his actions seem to be mostly motivated by a deep-seated rage that causes him to lash out in vindictive and cruel ways. Classic hero, really? One way to put it. I'm confused. He did a sort of, like, the pitch as a hero, now the pitch as a villain. I'm assuming he's going to comment on how, like, that's reconciled within him to create the best character or something. So do you want to, like... I do want to give him the benefit of the day and essentially... I don't get the impression that he was describing him to say that he was a hero, just to say that he was being portrayed as he would portray a hero in a lot of ways. I suppose he's saying there are aspects to him that could be considered as a part of a hero's journey, which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with, but, like, in general. But the problem with Black Panther is, like I said, from the get-go, it's like, oh, his dad was killed and he was abandoned. It's like, yeah, but why, though? That part doesn't even make sense. If it was, like, if T'Chaka was a bad guy, which, by the way, they could have done it that way. They could have been, like, T'Chaka was an evil sort of dick king at first, and then he, like, grew wise as he got older. But obviously we... I don't... No. I don't actually really like to see that just then. I just think there's a lot of ways they could have made it. For example, imagine, like, a huge rant from T'Chaka where he says, like, we can't... we couldn't take in that kid because he's, you know, like, the Black Panther universe equivalent of a mudblood, where he'd be like, you can't... he's a crossbreed. We can't bring outsiders to Wakanda, and then his son could be like, what the fuck, Dad? Like, that could work. I don't like to see that. Yeah, but we don't really... Maybe there was a cut thing, I don't know. When you take all this into account, it's hard to consider Killmonger any sort of hero, but writing him off as a straightforward villain doesn't seem right either. Do you guys agree with that? What was the first minute of this video? I happily called Killmonger a straight villain. There's not even a question. He is a villain. He is a villain. Absolutely. The guy has the only... his intention is to take over the world via killing several people, including children. Remember when he poisoned the museum lady who did absolutely nothing just because she was there? Remember when... That's what a good guy does. Remember when he killed Forrest Whittock? But his motivations... Yeah, well, the road to hell. Yeah, remember when he killed his girlfriend just because... Oh, yeah. What do you think of that, Jay? They have a scene to show the girl and she kisses him and he's like, yeah, and then the next scene we see her, he ends up shooting her through the head, I believe? No, through the chest, which is weird, because she just dies instantly. Yeah. I mean... Heart shot. Yeah, I mean, I personally don't think I would do that. No, I mean, from a filmmaking standpoint, what were they going for with that? I never understood it. I was like, okay, so she doesn't even have a line of dialogue from what I remember or she might do, but it's like, oh, he has a girlfriend. You're like, oh, okay. And then he kills her and you're like, oh, is he like really evil? Is that what they're going for? I feel like... I feel like they were just sort of going... He was like, I don't know. I feel like they just sort of wanted to seem like he was... I don't think they wanted to think they were an item properly. I think that she just... I mean, at least my impression of it was that she was just some girl he was shagging rather than anything else. Yeah, maybe. But I don't really know why they would do it. I mean, it does make him seem more villainous. The interesting thing is you could have cut here from the film, right, because she doesn't actually have relevance, but I'm assuming that the reason they included it was to show that he's ruthless and you'll do anything to get his... to win. Yeah, I mean, the light of that killing children does that as well. Exactly, yeah. Listen, Anakin, I was up... I was kind of with you to a point up until the... You can see him in the council. They were probably like, yeah, this is a great play. Yeah, he says, killing children. They were like, whoa. Whoa now, whoa. The light that has been crossed. Oh. Yeah. Someone described him shooting his girlfriend as the easiest breakup ever. No strings attached. He was a good person. He just wanted a nice, quick, clean breakup. It's true. It wasn't very clean. What did you think of killing Claw in general, by the way, as a writing choice? Like the character, I mean? Because I quite like Claw. I was like, why did they get rid of Claw? I think I just like Andy Serkis. I'm going to miss Claw. It felt weird. I feel like... He was introduced in what was essentially the biggest stepping stone film in the MCU, being Age of Ultron, only to basically be in about half an hour at most of Black Panther and then die. It was like, oh. I feel like, for me it did raise the stakes because he was a character I didn't care about and him dying was like, oh shit. People I care about are dying in this film and it sort of made me more invested in it. Yeah. I probably... I mean, you know, this is way too controversial considering how the film runs. I would have preferred it if he was the bad guy to be honest overall. But there's another question that gets raised and I don't think I actually... I forgot to have it in my video. Claw is like a trillionaire. What is he doing with Vibranium? What is... What's he up to? He just wants more money. Yeah. I mean, that's the kind of work he is just that he could never have enough money. I could totally believe that he does this but I feel like they just leave that detail out. They don't reconcile it. Like you could just have a henchman being like, Claw, you're rich. What are you doing? Then he's like, I don't do this for the money. You'd be like, oh cool. Yeah. You need some money to promo his mix tape. Oh right, yeah. That just reminds me of how my favorite part of the film probably is Bilbo and Claw, those two. I just like them in the film. I find them entertaining. I think they're both great actors. I was just like, yeah, that was fun. For the brief time they're there. At least I got the entertainment value of just thinking that Gollum and Bilbo accidentally wound up in this universe. Well, people are looking forward to when Doctor Strange and Bilbo meet up because of the Sherlock connection, but I mean... Oh wait, and Lord of the Rings. Oh, the Hobbit, sorry. Isn't it? Because of Benedict Cumberbatch played. Oh yeah. He can make a reference like, I'm fire. Exactly. It'll be great. I don't know. In Infinity War, someone posted a tweet saying something like they had a missed opportunity to have someone say no shit Sherlock in front of both Robert Downey Jr. and Benedict Cumberbatch because they both played Sherlock. And Benedict Cumberbatch like responded to the tweet saying there's a reason they didn't have that because it's awful. It's like, oh man, it must suck to have gotten that from Benedict Cumberbatch. So anyway. It's part of what makes him the most compelling antagonist in MCU history in my opinion. He doesn't just give T'Challa a conflict to overcome. He also makes him question everything about his family, his position, and his country. That makes... Well, it makes his dad look like an idiot. Yeah. I wouldn't... I don't think I could go that far. I'd be like, why couldn't he just cite something that would make a bit more sense? He makes him question himself about everything. He's like, well, not really. He just highlights the fact that his dad did a thing for some reason and we never really find out why. Wait, afterwards T'Challa does changes. Oh, he does. He wants to do the whole policy thing. But I'm not sure if... What would you say is the reason that he did that? Because I would cite the girlfriend before Killmonga. I mean, I think... I definitely think that at least the film wants you to think that Killmonga had a hand in it. Sure. But he's like a monster. He's like a horrible, horrifying monster. I like to think that basically T'Challa went, oh, these are some more right ideas. Maybe if we don't kill children, like, you know, you're taking it a bit far. We're going to go... We're going to take your ideas, Killmonga. We're going to count a couple of things. Just a couple of bullet points. We're just going to try to get details, really. He's like in a room with the both wearing glasses of a clipboard. He's like, so killing children, can we knock that off the list? And he's like, no. Okay. Maybe not all kids. He's like, no, all of them. You're like, oh man. You're not being reasonable. We'll grab the kids. And he's like, it's a start. It's a start. We got to have a little intervention here. Killmonga killing kids is probably not the best idea. Everyone's there. We need to talk about you killing children. Do you remember how he says that we can save you? And then he's like, what? So I could be in a prison. I remember being like, dude, take that opportunity. You might be able to get out again. You know, like Killmonga is like, you may as well just let me die because I can't be able to be your prisoner forever. And it's like, no, just pretend like you're a form. Be like, yeah, dude, I want to help you with your new plan. Yeah. I totally bother that he would be the kind of person who's like, oh yeah, I'm dying for my beliefs. Yeah, yeah. I was just saying, I'm not saying it's a problem. I'm just saying that's what I would have done. I'd be like, sure, I'll go into prison. That's fine. I only regret that there are children left unkilled. And like a week later, you get visited by T'Challa. He's like, hey, bad. You're like, hey, man, I was thinking killing kids is just the wrongest thing to do. That is so bad. No one should ever do that, you know? He's like, mm-hmm. You're like, so can I come out? That's all that you had a problem with before, right? I think some not just a fun Marvel villain, but a fantastic complex character in general. I applaud your cleverness, Mr. Richards. But even when a Panther cannot hear his victim. What the fuck? What? Okay, I guess that's fine. Okay, I do not like this animation look. It is. Now, I can see a lot of people taking the title of this video as an attack on Loki, who many consider to be the best MC. I'd go with Thanos at this point. I'd go with Thanos, yeah. I'm with Thanos. Thanos is quite an internal logic. In fairness, was this video made before or after? Good question. Why Black Panther Captain? Let's see if... Because I'll give him leeway if that's the case. Captain Midnight. I would still think it's arguable that... I would understand if someone said that he preferred Loki to Thanos. I wouldn't agree, but I'd be like... Oh yeah, well, see, my problem with... I don't really have a problem with Loki. I just don't find him as interesting. I really like... I feel like it's Tom Hiddleston rather than Loki, to be honest. I just enjoy him. While with Thanos, there's a lot for my brain to chew on with Thanos. If that makes any sense at all. Yeah. February 28th. So when did Infinity War come out? That was in May, right? Or April? War release. Oh yeah, so this is two months before, so that's fair. Okay, so we'll give him leeway for that. Yeah, absolutely. I can see... Yeah, who have you even got to sight for good villains in the MCU outside of... Vulture? Vulture's probably... Dr. Octopus? Oh, well, no, MCU maybe. Well, he's not an MCU. Oh, okay, yeah, I was just stretching. It would be Loki, Vulture, if we ignore Thanos. I'm not even sure who else is left at that point. Certainly not any of the Iron Man villains. They were all terrible. Captain... Oh, where's Zemo? I like Zemo a lot. Then you got basically no one left. Oh, Ego, some people are referencing from Guardians 2. He's alright, I like Ego. I'd say I don't really like him as much as a villain, but the mind of the carry is. It's complicated. Red Skull, no, he's too... Red Skull was lame. He's too evil. Yeah, a little bit too mustache twirly for me. Hail Hydra. Hulk's dad from Ang Lee Hulk? Oh, that was Chris Gustafson, right? Oh, no, Nick Nolte, I believe. It was one of those two. I can't remember who, but I think it was Nick Nolte in the Ang Lee Hulk. Fist from the Daredevil show. I mean, that's... I don't know if we can... Winter Soldier? I liked Winter Soldier. I just didn't think he was overly... I don't think... Well, I don't really think he's much of a villain. He's more of a victim, to be honest. Yeah. He's sort of a tool more than anything, really, for the villains. I really like him as a character. I wouldn't count him as a villain, though. I'm sorry, I can't consider Ultron. I thought that Ultron was kind of poop. He's too... And that's the thing, I love James Bader's voice, and I like the ideas involved with Ultron, but man, was he goofy. He was oddly goofy for what was supposed to be like... I wish he was more mechanically precise, you know? Really played the A.I. Yeah, angle a bit more. He makes some of the damage jokes. Like a Borg or something, you know? Yeah, for a character that wanted to literally destroy the planet, every time he came up on screen, I was like, this does not strike me as the kind of character that would destroy a planet. He's like a jokey kind of dude. I don't know, it just didn't work for me. I'm thinking from the trailer that he was going to be extremely creepy, like, very definitive in every action he takes, and, you know, single-minded in a goal, but also has information. Like, I love the idea that he was the anti-Ironman. He was just as intelligent, but had a different solution to the world's problems. You know, like, Ironman's like, we need to wrap a suit of armor around the world, and he's like, well, if we just kill all of the people that are a threat to everybody, there's some kind of twisted logic like that, you know? I also like the idea, because there was a video that brought it up, it was like, it would have been cool to have twisted Ultron's goals to have been in favor of defending the Earth against Thanos. Like, that was his ultimate plan, because he knew Thanos was coming or something like that. And he was like, we're going to get rid of all the humans and redo them all with bots instead, because they'll be much better as a defense against Thanos. And you just be like, they could have had a few drops of clues in Ultron, but the problem is, I don't think they had any idea what Infinity War was going to be when they were writing Age of Ultron, so they planned a little bit ahead, but not completely. But overall, yeah, Loki's cool. I like Loki. Don't mean it to be. Tom Hiddleston is great as Loki, and I'd probably rank him as one of the best characters in the entire MCU. But for me at least, Loki works best when he's not the villainous lead, but a supporting character. He was my favorite part of the Dark World, and one of my favorite parts of Ragnarok for a reason. That's the type of role. Probably the only good part of the Dark World. I really like the Dark World. I just thought it was kind of fun to watch people fighting. It's okay, Rags. It's considered one of the worst, if not the worst. I don't actually have a lot of arguments for it because I can never remember what happens in that film. Yeah, I just like people fighting. I just remember watching it in theaters. And just like half the theater burst out laughing when the fucking stupid elves fly in in their spaceship. And then, God, what's his name? Idris Elba runs across the bridge in the goofiest way ever to stab the ship and climb on it. It was hilarious. Do you hate the references to Norse mythology as well? I remember us talking about that before. Oh, God, yeah. It kind of spit... Well, all the Thor movies kind of spit in the face of actual Norse mythology. It kind of got ridiculous in that movie. Not to make a tangent. We'll do this as quickly as we can. But how are you finding that aspect of God of War 4? Well, the same thing with... Well, the thing is that at least from the first three God of War games, like they kind of spit in the face of Greek mythology in a lot of places too. Oh, God, yeah. It's a complete mess. They're just like, this stuff happens here and here. We'll take random things. It does the same thing with God of War 4. But I can ignore it because, I mean, we're talking about a Greek God in a Norse world, which would not ever work. So I can kind of be like, okay, I'll just play with it. So I would say Rags calls himself a movie reviewer, which I know while liking Thor because he likes people fun. Yeah, I like the movie. I didn't say it was good. I just said I liked it because I like the effects. It's okay, chat. Put your guns down. I thought it was fun. I thought it was a fun movie to watch because they're like elves fighting Greek people or Thor people, Norse people. I remember seeing Darkwild and Iron Man 3 somewhat like together-ish, or at least within a certain amount of time. And I remember thinking like, yeah, I'm pretty much dubbed with the MCU. That was like my low point. I can't remember. Someone said, I'm sorry, someone said Rags is not a movie reviewer. He's a handler, get it right. Yeah, that's right. Oh wait, I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember. Jere Genesis. Oh yeah. Fuck, I completely forgot about that. You see, that's the thing with me in movies. I am much more predisposed to like movies than not like them. Yeah, but it doesn't stop you from talking about the mechanics in them. Yeah, that's why when I watched Thor of the Darkwild I was like, oh, stuff's always happening. Things are constantly going on. Like the effects and some of the weapons were really cool. Like the black hole grenades I thought were really neat. You know, stuff like that. I was like, oh, good stuff happening things. That's just why I liked it. I mean, if anything, how many movies Reg said that he likes that me and Mauler both hated. I know Annihilation is one of them. Quiet place. Yeah. You liked a quiet place, didn't you? Yeah, I liked it. By the way, we're on the minority on that one, I think. Most people like Annihilation. As far as I know. Most people are wrong. We'll see how chat reacts to it now. What's your take on the Darkwild, Jay? I cannot remember it at all. I fell asleep on that one too. It's definitely the most forgettable MCU film. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that really. Well, the Incredible Hulk. I literally cannot remember it at all. I remember Hulk punching things a couple of times and that was about it. The guy from Pulp Fictions in it as well. He's like the main bad guy sort of. He's abomination, I believe. The guy from Pulp Fiction. Oh yeah, there's a lot of guys from Pulp Fiction. Tim Roth, Tim Roth is the one I was looking for. Oh, okay. See, I think you could be watching Thor the Darkwild and you could be halfway through it and realize that you have no idea what's happened up until that point. And that's not because you've not been paying attention. That's just because of how the film feels. Yeah, to give a really good perspective on what sucks about the Thor Darkwild, I'd have to watch it again and you'd have to talk to me like five seconds after because you get a day, I would have forgotten it. That's the problem for it. Sure, I would happily agree that Loki is probably the best part of it. Yeah. As opposed to the other good parts of it. I like Loki in Avengers. He was the villain in Avengers. Because this guy said he's better as a supporting character. Isn't he always a supporting character outside of... Oh wait, he was the villain in Thor 1, wasn't he? Yeah. Well, he was one of like three villains in Thor 1. Oh yeah, because you had the frost giant people and the giant machine that fired lasers. Right. He was so... Wasn't there like evil humans too? Some of the chats said I like the last Jedi and don't cross lines, alright? You can go, no. No, no. Look, jokes are... We all like some jokes. We all enjoy a little humor, alright? But don't take shit too far. That joke is too far. Because someone will take that seriously and think I actually liked the last Jedi. Oh, he applied it to you. I found out where you leave. Someone said Rags likes the last Jedi. I will hyperdrive my Mazda into your house. Have you seen our podcast before? We rarely... I don't think we've had a podcast where Star Wars was mentioned. I think they're joking. Good, good, good. But yeah, I've liked Loki in pretty much all the films but I can't even remember him in Thor 1 to be perfectly honest. I liked him as the bad guy in Avengers. I'm putting that out there. I thought he was great. I enjoyed it. It's probably why he had the slot for, like, number one villain until... Thanos knocked it off, I suppose. I can't think of it if I prefer any of those, but... Whatever, we shall let this man continue. Excelsior. In Avengers, he represents a pretty cut-and-dry challenge for the heroes. They need to band together as a team or see the entire planet taken over by him and his alien overlords. It provided a great skeleton for Joss Whedon to write entertaining team scenes around, but that's about it. Loki's lust for power just... I'm so glad that Captain America doesn't have that stupid fucking mask anymore. Yeah, it looks like they've opted for not only taking masks away but making it so that everyone's masks are nano-suited on now, isn't it? Yeah. But the best parts of the Avengers movies are how all the characters interact and talk and all that. I'm a bit of an Avengers 1 nerd because I like Joss Whedon a lot, which is fucking controversial to say these days. There's a scene where... There's several scenes where Thor is trying to reach Loki and he almost does. He says that, like, you've gone too far, this has to stop, and then Loki says it's too late, and then he says, no, it's not, we can do it together, and then Loki decides to stab him anyway. That's the thing that happens, isn't it? He's not just a one-dimensional evil man. And he deliberately lets himself get caught. He fucks with the characters quite a bit. I feel like he's selling him a bit short in Avengers 1, that's all. So, yeah, this is my opinion. And then, and remember, he was in Infinity War 2. He was for a little bit. It isn't explored with that much depth within the film itself. This isn't the case with Killmonger. The conflict he presents to the rest of the cast goes far beyond he wants power and is willing to kill to take it. It makes them... What? No, it doesn't. Um, does it? Do that? I mean, I guess it does in the sense that he's like, I want power, but I also want to kill all the children. That's how he's layered. I just want to... I suppose it could be in saying he wants power for other people instead of just himself. Yeah, but he wants to be the overlord. You know, it would be like me being like, yeah, I want rags and wolf to have level 5 strength as long as I have level 6 strength. Like, hmm... Fair enough. He wants to rule right, you know? Again, this would go over so much more smoothly if they hadn't had the stupid line where he said he was going to kill children... Just that one aspect is a bit awkward, but... That's the cast. Goes far beyond he wants power and is willing to kill to take it. It makes them confront the sins of the past and question their own priorities. The sins of the past... Well, those sins can't apply to T'Challa because it wasn't applied... He wasn't born yet. He didn't even know about it. And the sin doesn't even make sense. Glory to the hand. Or if he was born, he wasn't, you know, around to see it happen. He probably was born, but he was just back home or whatever. But this is very hard for me to swallow considering how the choice for them to leave behind just didn't make sense. That's where I'm stuck still. I think that's the issue, is that they could have written it so it made sense. They had opportunities to do so. Yeah, I mean, it's not like they went with their... I mean, it's not like they went with their first draft. Who would do that? Nobody would ever do that. Because let's be clear here, what T'Challa's father did to Eric was pretty deeply messed up. Yeah, but why did he do it? Yeah, gosh, even if there was a reason for it, well, shit, let's just kill children. Well, I mean, T'Challa did suggest that. T'Challa suggests let us kill the children's father and then leave them homeless. That was the other thing that I didn't really pick up on until the rewatch with Wolf. When he kills the dad, it seemed unnecessary. He stops the gun and then he just fucking kills him. He's like, boom, and then, fuck it, you're dead. He's like, oh man, I gotta go all the way now. I've stopped the gun, may as well kill him. Wait, what? I have the claws. Not only did he kill a child's father, he turned a blind eye to that kid's suffering for decades. He turned a blind eye to that kid's suffering for decades. Why, though? Just anyone? And even if, I mean, I don't even know if that's a fair take. The kid's suffering. He turned a blind eye to the world's suffering. Couldn't you, isn't that? Mowing line with the film. To the rest of Africa's suffering. To the rest of Wakanda outside of the dome. Yeah, they don't count. They don't count. As the leader of the most technologically advanced nation in the world, and someone we know has spies everywhere, it doesn't seem like he ever once checked in on Eric. If he had, he would have seen an incredibly angry and broken person Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with any of that. We're still stuck at the beginning, though. Turning into a killing machine. He could have done something about that. Instead, either out of anger or simple shame, he looks the other... What do you mean, though? Out of anger or shame? Anger for war and shame for war. These things aren't covered. Where are you hiding your weapon behind your shield? He's using it to help prop it up as a shield. God, right. Do you know nothing about trial by combat? I know that you don't hide your weapon behind your shield. Wouldn't that be funny if he kicked his shield hard enough that his spear sliced his neck? I just read someone in the chat. How would you have known about the kid anyway? Or I guess he would have known through the spy? Question mark? Because the guy was spying on him? Through young forest Whitaker. I mean, they already accepted anyway, right? Because T'Chuck is like, we had to do it to keep the secret. And you're like, you're wrong. And it's like, God damn it, it talks to him about why he kept the secret. Also, look at that guy's outfit there. He's got, like, overalls for the... He's doing a power split. All of it. And allowed a monster to be created in the process. And that makes sense, because turning a blind eye to suffering seemed to be what he did with most things happening outside of Wakanda. Don't all... Has that been like the Wakanda National Anthem for how many thousands of years? That's the thing. And it's like, I agree with that part, but they never fucking have any kind of... Anything for why they left Eric. That's his name, isn't it? This is like a scene missing or dialogue missing. And he's just sort of... He hasn't even provided a reason yet. I'm waiting for him to maybe invent one, because obviously, we kind of need one, but he just said he was out of shame and anger. Or he said he was possibly out of shame and anger. Which, again, is just like, what do you mean? What are you referring to? This is relevant. Editing! What the fuck? But let me back up. Who even was that? That's Black Panther playing with yarn, because that's what Black Pea... That's what cats do. Was that like a mobile game? Something. It had like a buy gold button, so I assume it's a shitty mobile game. I love how you had to catch yourself and... It rises like you're a racist. You have to whip him into shape. That's what Black Panther does. He plays with yarn because he's a cat. All of this is interesting, sure, but it would be nothing without a great actor to bring it to the screen. Thankfully, Ryan Coogler knew just the guy from his previous role in Coogler's Fruitvale Station and... Introducing Coogler's... I don't really have any criticisms for that. They shouldn't have food stand. I actually really like Creed, by the way. Have you guys seen that? I heard it was really good, though. I'm not into those kinds of movies, but I heard it was really good. I'm super into boxing movies, or fighting movies in general, but I heard good things about it. Any comment on his acting for Killmonger? I think he's a good actor. I've seen him... I mean, the movie's horrendous, but Fahrenheit 451, despite that movie just being a slap in the face to the book, I don't think he's a bad actor. I just think he takes bad roles at times. Like, is that a... I don't really have a problem with... He's the Nicholas Cage. No, he's more like... What's his name? He was in Alien Covenant. Michael Fassbender. He's like... He's a really good actor that takes so many bad movies. He was in Assassin's Creed. Oh, God, yeah. X-Men Annihilation. Snowman. Oh, fuck yeah, he was in that, too. Jesus. He's in... I know. Michael Fassbender is a great actor who has, like, the worst agent ever. He's been in, like, two good movies. Well... Let's see if we just agree with this. He's good at playing roles that have stuff going on under the surface, even though I would argue that Killmonger is extremely blatant about his motivations. I'm pretty sure he describes them throughout the film, but hey, not knocking this guy's... I would have wanted some clarification on what he means by there's a lot going on under the surface. Like, with the character, or with the scene, or with... Probably the character in terms of his activation. Yes, he's secretly white under all that black skin. Well, if that is a rude what you just said, how dare you? Oh, it's a rude, okay. We all are black on the inside. Technically, we all... Isn't that how that would... We all would have had black ancestors on Pangea, right? Oh, wait, was that before humans? Well, that was before humans. That was a good... No, sorry, that is... We all came from one continent. It was my point, sorry. Yeah, I mean, we were all brown at one point. And to brown, we shall return. I mean, I guess if you want to get super specific with it, we kind of are all the same like slithering insect. Oh, right, yeah. No, we're all stardust. We're all amoeba. No, we're all descendants of Adam and Eve because 6,000 years ago I made people in the Garden of Eden. Greg, shut up! The truth will set you free. He was new no matter how tough he tried to act. This was a fundamentally decent little kid playing at being a drug dealer. With Creed, it was insecurity. Oh, here it is. Okay, this is weird. So, obviously the intention here is to run a thread through all of wealth, through the character on the wire, Creed and Killmonger. I'm more interested in how he's going to try and assess that Killmonger has stuff going on under the surface as opposed to being... Like, I'm not crazy here, right? Like, Killmonger was very overt. Yeah, I reckon he didn't believe that hanging. He never really gave the idea of internal conflict or anything like that. Wolf? You'll take on this. I'm just trying to get over the fact that he was like, this kid played a great drug dealer. No! That's straw-matted. He said he played a great kid thinking he was a drug dealer. You're the worst. He played a lot of the nervousness and anxiety of being in his legendary father's shadow. In Fantastic Four, he... Oh god. Oh no, you don't know what... Oh yeah! He wasn't that movie! I forgot that movie was a thing. It's usually like someone has to bring it up for me to even remember it. This looks like the cover of a Spy Kids movie. Fantastic, I believe, is whatever goes with it. Why is he referencing Fantastic Four? This is not the kind of movie you want to reference in a good light. Dude, he's got very few films to choose from, I imagine. He wants... I'm not even trying to be a conspiracy theory here. He wants to just prove that he plays complex characters, so he's just applying it to any film he could find that he's in. Let me see what... Oh god, he was in that horrible Red Tails movie too. Man, he's in a lot of bad movies. You didn't like that movie because you're racist. Exactly. That's why he didn't like Black Panther 2. Man forced. How come every movie where Michael B. Gordon plays a Black character you don't like? He plays a Black character? Look, it's nothing against that. It's just, you know, I think he's a better Asian character personally. Anyway... You know, let's just not talk about Fantastic Four. Oh, okay. There you go. High five. High five too. Anyway, in Black Panther, what he's playing boiling just under the surface in almost every scene is rage and a lot of it. We already straggled the old lady. It doesn't seem like containing that rage very well. The subtlety of the rage beneath the surface as he strangles people. Rage beneath... He does a lot of shouting. He makes a lot of statements about how evil the people he's trying to take down are. Yeah, but under the surface, under the surface there's even more rage. He gets even worse. He's even... rage. That is after-earth. I'm sad that I know that. You know it because it's just the stupidest fucking name ever. High five for rage. Good night. Sit down. Good night. Mind is when he gets buried in the sand and takes a trip to the spirit realm. For T'Challa... You just have to say that as if it just makes sense. In the spirit realm... It's buried. It's sad. Visits the spirit realm. One thing that really comes to mind is when he gets buried in the sand and takes a trip to the spirit realm. For T'Challa, this was a very sacred, very peaceful process where he gained encouragement from- He had a whole fucking shout out with his dad in the peaceful realm if you remember. He's like, you're what wrong? You're a bastard. You piece of shit. Why the fuck did you do what you did? I was like, oh shit, you're embarrassed to be in front of the other Panthers, dude. Hold your shirt up. Panthers in the trees are like, should we go? Should we go? This is really awkward. That's one thing I do want to bring up to... Is it Jay? Yep. Hi. Did you notice that there's only like six kings? Oh yeah. There's trees in the background. There's one over there. There's a whole bunch of Panthers on that one. Why was the spirit realm specific six? Dude, the cabra pad's right. There's hundreds of Panthers lying there. It's like a bush. And the spirit realm, the floor is lava. You see? Past Kings. For Eric, not so much. His vision takes him to his childhood apartment. The spirit of his father still linger in there. He reverts to a scared and angry little kid. And you really start to feel for him. Honestly, one of the better scenes. I actually found that one decent enough that he has that conflict with his dad. He even explains how he knows all about Wakanda through like a little book that he found that was a secret. But on our second watch, I did say that how in the world wouldn't Forrest Whitaker have known about that book? And how blatantly bad it is to leave something like that in the human part... Well, in the non-Wakanda place. But either way, it's fine. It was nice to get that little bit out of Killmonger despite how much nothing makes sense about him to me. But when he rises from that sand, it isn't in sadness or maybe even a sense of closure that he got to speak to his dad one last time. Not at all. He comes out with pure unadulterated anger and hate. But unlike many villains, it's not like every other scene he's in. Yeah, like... Yeah, what a difference it made. Yeah, I mean, well, the idea is that he was doing it for that very reason then he sees the reason again and he's like, yep, still doing it for this reason. It's rage. But something very understandable and grounded. In this way, he actually reminds me of one of my favorite non-MCU bad guys, Magneto. Now that I think about it, Killmonger and Magneto have a lot in common. Um... No... No... I already know how he's going to connect them but it's just like, yeah, but... And I'm not even one to defend the X-Men films. I like them a lot. There's a couple of problems, but like Magneto versus Xavier is supposed to be the kind of like, Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Junior, right? That's the, like, the idea. And that mutants are... Magneto fights for mutant rights with violence while Xavier is trying to incorporate and work with and stuff. But... To compare Magneto to Killmonger. That feels weird to me but sure, I'll give him a shot. Both are trying to take down society. What? Yes, can we throw Hitler in there, please? Like... And a brutal childhood? Take down society? How many villains does that apply to? That's the guy from Thor 2. Uh, technically Loki. Because Loki's trying to destroy in Thor 1 and in Avengers. Um... What if Thanos nuking half the galaxy pretty much destroy every single society ever? Someone in chat said that Doom guy has more personality than Killmonger. Makes more sense than Killmonger? That actually does make sense because Doom guy is like pure rage but it's presented in this... like this characterized way. Also, I'm confused. Take down society. Wouldn't it be they want to change society? Well, I guess you have to take it down in order to change it I guess. One wants to make it just completely mutants and the other just wants to make it completely adults. Adults? Oh, right. That took me way too long to catch. Magne was like, we're not so different. You are not. It is, we know it. Both had very brutal childhood. Well, one was in the literal Holocaust. Oh my god, named Eric. Really? I know. Okay, look. One was in the Holocaust. The other's dad died. I think one has a little bit more to go on. Not to mention, let me do this with two other characters. We'll take Spider-Man and Star-Lord. They both want to help people. They both had a childhood in which their loved ones died. They both named Peter. It's like, yeah, so... Yeah. Let's take Tony Stark and Tony Montana. Tony Montana. You know, if you... They both named Tony. If you just replace the second and fourth weaponry... They both have access to high-powered weaponry. If you just replace the second and fourth weaponry... If they both replace the second and fourth weaponry... It's evil. Alright, let's see what else he's got. Both are even named Eric with a K. Except, not really. Most importantly though, both have goals that are, in many ways, very sympathetic. They make some very... Okay, Magneto's like Mutant Supremacy. This is a good thing. I don't know what his valid point is, exactly. Oh, Jared's in chat, if you want to say hi. Hi, Jared. We'll talk about Co-Monger. Hope you guys are doing awesome Stay Rad, everyone. Jared, you stay Alpha. Do you want to see what his reaction is to throw in an invite for the next Dishonored Wolf podcast? Or... Well, I don't know when the next Dishonored Wolf podcast is going to be, but I will keep him in my thoughts, in my heart. Just like I always do. There's no way you can contact him on Twitter anymore. No way. Well, I can always comment on his videos, and even if he deletes his channel, he's going to make a new one about 12 minutes later, so I'll be able to always contact him. There's an ongoing argument about the differences between sympathetic and empathetic, and I believe it's the difference between understanding why they do what they do, versus relating to what they do. Being like, yeah, I could definitely see myself doing that. If we're going for the whole, you can understand Killmonger and Magneto's goals. I can understand Magneto's his history is being a part of the holocaust and deciding, fuck it, I'm going to fight back with violence because that's how they're treating mutants. It's like, okay, cool. And then you got Killmonger, who's like, they killed my dad, and they didn't help everyone around the world. They just stuck to themselves. In response, I'm going to get rid of every world leader and kill everyone involved who defies me, including children, until I can rule the world the correct way. It's like, what? I think his motivations are sympathetic just not what he decides to do because of his motivations. Did he say goals? Like, yeah, I actually maybe. Because correct me if I'm wrong, but Magneto's goal is actually the same as Xavier's. It's just their methods are different. He's like, he wants world peace and he randomly is like, you know what? I agree with you, Xavier. I'll be a good guy, but then he's not. It's like, that happens several times. He goes from a bad guy to a good guy to a bad guy in every single movie. Do you remember how in Days of Future Past, they bring him in to be helping, that he ends up being the film's villain? Shit. Yeah, they were like, let's break you out of jail and he's like, thanks. I'm going to be the bad guy now. Oh, fuck, that was a mistake. He goes with whatever the most what he feels is the most realistic ends to what his goal will be. Sure. But like, Killmonger's goal is to take over the world. I'm not gonna, that's retarded. Like, you're just a guy. With a K, except not really. Most importantly though, both have goals that are in many ways very sympathetic and they make some very valid points. But their methods to get to those goals are far too brutal and murderous for our protagonists to get on board. Well, for the audience to get on board. I mean, we can assume he's saying that too. Those goals, they would have been better to phrase it that way though. As if the child is the only person that has a problem with this. Bill, I don't know because right after he is sympathetic in many ways. These cutaways are very strange. I'm not sure I feel about this. I don't understand what they're for. And like, he wants to go for a different format every time, right? Cause it was like a newer cartoon and the other one was like a game. Very strange. I don't really understand why they're here. And also, cause he's only got nine minutes like he's obviously, this is a very quick video so throwing these in, I mean this, I'm not saying this is why they're here but it certainly helps to pad it a little bit. Well, you know he's gonna throw in that betterhelp.com or something at the end. We'll see. I don't know, I can't remember if he has sponsors or not, cause I remember I've seen two videos of his before. What the fuck? According to Black Panther co-writer Joe Robert Cole, in a lot of ways what T'Challa and Eric want are the same things. But Eric is coming at it from How would you sum up what they both want as the same thing? Really? What Hitler wanted wasn't that different from what everyone else wanted. There were just less Jews involved. So you could summarize it as being like you know, nobody's any different because everyone wants something. But I'm curious, cause aren't these two like antithetical to each other in the film? Isn't that kind of the point? Cause T'Challa only wants to sort of expand Wakanda after Eric is dead. So like to say that they sort of want the same thing it's like not really. Eric is coming from a place of pain that ultimately finds a place of empathy And T'Challa ultimately finds a place of empathy? That's a strange comparison. Yeah, I'm not sure about this. From a place of pain and T'Challa ultimately finds a place of empathy This is what puts Killmonger a notch or two ahead of the rest of the MCU villains. What? Okay, if you say so. Not only is his goal emotionally grounded in a way that say Malekitz plans with looking elves. Civil War was out at this point. How is Zemo's plan not emotionally motivated? What about Vulture? I'm pretty sure Spider-Man Homecoming was out at this point too. Why would you, like what's the point in going for the bottom of the barrel? Being like, you see it's better than the fucking Dark Elf Yeah I can't even remember his name or what. I can't tell you what his plan was I'm pretty sure he was like he had some kind of, the aether was supposed to do a thing the red stuff I'm waiting for anybody to fill in the blanks here because I just can't remember. I think his name was Malekitz Dude, we're trying to figure out what his name is Well he just said it, he just said it here It's Mal some, if your name begins with Mal I'm sorry, you're gonna be a bad guy Malevolence That's an evil name Yeah, no point comparing it to him If, like at least bring in Loki, that would have been a better shot And to conquer the Nine Realms and thaw the Dark World just wasn't There's a sense that if T'Chaka had just made a few different choices Erick and T'Challa could be on the same page He's just summed up why I don't think it's well written If he just made a few different choices it's like, yeah I agree As family, but by the time we meet Kilmonger, literally murdering people in the first scene we see him in he's just too far gone and there's definitely Is it? I just like, why does play an element of tragedy I don't know Too far gone is a villain yet still sympathetic somehow When he's bleeding out under the Wakandan sunset arm in arm with T'Challa but refusing to get the life saving medical help he needs you can't help but wonder who this guy would have been if things had played out just a little differently in his life So even though I Yeah, I agree with that too If things had been different If the dad hadn't made a retarded decision Yeah, interesting stuff I was sad to see him go and kind of wish he could return to the MCU Loki style He was at least given one of the best and definitely one of the most thought provoking deaths in any model You mean like how he was stabbed through the heart and managed to survive for like an hour afterward Yeah, yeah Which completely I think I told Rags this for making that comment There's a couple of comments that were like No, you can totally survive over I got a very very long email from a doctor who said he noticed a lot of people saying that you can survive a knife to the heart for extended periods of time You can't It is literally impossible The heart is very important It is very fragile I believe the email opened with something like the heart is an extremely important organ Look man You get stabbed in the heart, you're fucked What if the Charla puts one of his balls in it Oh, that's a great point He could have balled his heart Yeah, he's giving the old heart ball He said something like if you sever If you sever any of the pipes or tubes or whatever the fuck goes on in the heart in total You've already pretty much guaranteed yourself a heart attack like immediately is what he said He said you might be able to survive for like a minute at most But if you even try to move you will definitely die Do you remember how far they travel It's like They have to walk all the way to the elevator then walk from the elevator to the edge of the confidence like oh His heart had vibranium in it Well this is the thing, some people are like yeah but he had the super juice It's like what do you think that means that the heart healed and that also didn't I don't hate you Eric I just want to put my bulls in your heart It's an emotional scene One of the most common criticisms of MCU villains is that their powers are a lazy mirror of the heroes This goes all the way back to Obadiah Stain and the first Iron Man Yeah I mean I don't know how you guys feel about this but like I really liked Obadiah Stain up until he got into his suit and then he became a really retarded villain It was like what the hell is your plan I'm going to be honest The opening scene and I was like this isn't the opening No He's also right about like mirror enemies as well I agree with that but they took the criticism to heart okay and as of if you took all of the villains from 2000 I want to say 15 and onwards the MCU was doing really well well except for Killmong Completely opposite to this guy that's what I think Basically becomes Iron Man but bigger for Black Panther drop Why wouldn't you throw more examples in there That could have been fun You could be like oh and this one is just Thor but well Loki's the enemy to Thor It's not really Thor but bigger is it Then you've got Captain America fights Red Skull which isn't exactly red Captain America but bigger Then you got Hulk who fights a slightly different colored Hulk Yeah that's a good example of he just fights bigger Hulk Opt I remember hearing those criticisms again and it's true in the third act To Chalice fighting bigger to Chalice Screenshot sums it up He's fighting bumpier to Chalice Killmonger does get a suit almost exactly like to Chalice but it works better here because in this movie that's actually kind of the point Oh So why isn't it the point in Iron Man Actually I'm sorry Here you'll take on this when I make my point Jay but uh Isn't the point in Iron Man that he actually makes it blatant himself he says Tony in your attempt to stop the proliferation of your weapons you've given the world its biggest one and like the idea that Tony's working throughout the film to stop people from using his weapons to destroy shit and then Obadiah Stain is using what is his newest and most powerful weapon against him Wouldn't that be considered part of the film? Yeah I do think it is sort of the it does make sense in Iron Man for it to be the way it is I'm not even a fan but I think it makes sense from the film's point of view I don't think it makes like a very interesting fight but I think narratively it makes good sense and like I don't know how you feel about this but the fight between the two Black Pathers this film was by the least favourite part I don't even know where to begin Oh Playstation The Rhinos Oh god everybody hated the Rhydo CGI it's just rushed that's all it was it's unfortunate because I you can probably guarantee that the people behind it had the talent to make something better but they were told you have like one week to make Rhinos and they were like what make it a Rhinon now Eyes of the Wakandan people in the finale they fight in almost the exact same suit one purple and one gold and when they do it's not because they want to beat the crap out of each other I mean they're more black both of them but sure I guess they the people in black gold tinges although definitely that too they want to do a little more than beat the crap at each other that's the thing is though like when I was watching it I was almost confused I was like how can they possibly beat each other and then they were like oh by the way the thing randomly removes their suits and you're like oh and then you realise that if he was wearing the suit from Civil War that probably wouldn't have been the case I'm assuming because this stuff is like nanomites the ghetto over you and so it wouldn't have the best part is is like his suit isn't even like being affected by the train by the time he stabs him the whole thing you know it's just like oh wow that little space happened to open up next to his heart and you stabbed him at that moment too it's like that worked out well was there a space that opened up over his heart because I thought their suits were like reformed by that point I think that's what happens isn't it it's like the suits are all blotchy and then he stabs him in the heart and then the train's gone it's just too late and when they do it's not because they want to I say maybe I have to watch the movie again but I really dearly don't want to do that beat the crap out of each other although definitely that too it's because they're fighting over two different visions of what the Black Panther and by extension Wakanda represents I don't even think Killmonga gives a shit about Black Panther he just wants the power in the suit because they're useful I don't think he gives a shit about what Black Panther represents I don't think there's ever I doubt he just doesn't seem like the principle type yeah I just think he sees it as tools he doesn't give a shit about any of that I think he actively despises Black Panther and Wakanda for the history that they've chosen to do think of all the children I could kill in the end T'Challa comes out on top this is a Marvel movie after all so it probably doesn't come as a surprise that the hero emerges victorious but after Eric dies some of the points he made still live on he may not have won but he did manage to permanently change the way that Wakanda relates to the outside world yeah but that was happening anyway there's a scene where the T'Challa is like we do not open our borders and then the girl is like we should though and he's like hmmmm that's what I mean because the girl has another talk with him later and then she's at the end as well I think I can't remember but I will concede that Killmonger probably got T'Challa to agree to it but I think it's more motivated by the fact that his dad did the crazy stupid thing originally that's what made T'Challa be like okay we are kind of evil but again it doesn't make sense that's my biggest issue or one of them anyway so in the end even though I could never consider Killmonger any sort of great hero like he is the guy willing to kill his girlfriend at the drop of a hat why would you call him a hero in general much less a great one he did say that he couldn't and then he referenced the fact that he just murdered his girlfriend randomly and I'm like this is why I could never consider him a good guy he's a horrible person and you could be like yeah but he's horrible because of his history I'd be like no just because your dad was assassinated does not mean you need to start killing children and innocent people and strangling old women that's not how it works who is the old woman he strangled again? once he wakes up from we fucking laughed at it when we rewatched it oh yeah that part he's like bearded old she's like we can't do that he just goes block and she's like what the fuck are you doing while you're strangling only I get the great juice now T'Arts is an eye that he had a positive impact on T'Challa there's enough shame in this in the same way that Thanos had a positive impact on the use of this he brought us together in the same way that Hitler had a positive impact on the juice it's all very very vague he gave them all a huge victim complex that's continued for almost a century yay to kill his girlfriend at the drop of a hat it's hard to deny that he had a positive impact on T'Challa there's enough shades of gray to him to elevate him far above the usual comic book villain that makes him not just my favorite character in the Black Panther but my favorite villain in the entire MCU but you said he's the best villain you said why Black Panther has Marvel is wait what why Black Panther has Marvel's oh right I was confused by that title for a second but you see what he did he's made a statement of fact in the title and then in the video he was like in my opinion it's different it is different with the title because we assume oh he's gonna argue like objectively why it's true and then at the end he's like by the way this is just my opinion here's how he compares to this one and this one and this one get ready for the 20 second ad if you say in my opinion it means you cannot be criticized that's how that works hey I hope you liked the video I will be back next week no ad just subscribe well I guess it's an ad for his channel but that's okay isn't it Wolf yay I'm not shilling better help you know the depression scam that's uh Shane Dawson was doing that right I'm pretty sure he advertised for it like a whole ton of YouTubers it's a scam do you know that for like for fact apparently it's like the therapist it's like free like temporarily like for a very very short amount of time and then you have to pay like ridiculous amounts of money and then the therapist sometimes will like cancel on you it's like almost compare it's comparable to the candid situation okay but yeah what's everyone's take away from that video any of you can go first or last he was not he was not convincing he didn't really make me like the movie anymore that's my review well that's basically just I mean I didn't say anything that I thought this is this has changed like this has changed my perspective I just sort of went in thinking yeah Killmonger I enjoyed I enjoyed seeing him and that's basically how I feel now have we have we changed your perspective on Killmonger at all or do you feel the same way I feel you pointed out stuff out to me about his plan I'm like yeah I'm not really sure what he did that I still like him as a character but yeah I as as plans go not the most sense making of plans yeah fair enough I'm gonna try and get through these super chats now as fast as I can Rags have you got is it right to say you got 16 minutes I've got yeah just about I will try and I mean because we're gonna start up the video on Predator next so I don't know if you'd rather just go now or if you'd rather go when you have to go completely up to you I'm sorry I was I was in another world there for a second what did you think I was saying because we'll start up the next video soon and obviously you're welcome to stay for as long as you can or if you'd rather leave it at like if you know what I mean like it's like a middle part so you've completed one video and you don't have to start the first bit of another one or you can stay for as long as you want it up to you oh stay as long as I can sweet I read that one the spirit is the best comedy to have comic book movie trappings I have you guys seen the spirit that was like not a sequel but a source the next one from Sin City of the same style I believe of like black and white with select colors highlighted but I don't think anyone saw it Samuel Jackson was in it I think the only spirit movie I know of is the one with the horse yeah no I don't know that I've seen that one stallion of the Himeraan I just want my super chat to show up on stream see you your bundles of sticks wow wow that is offensive because both wolf and rags like sausage I do sausage is really good I'm more of a bacon guy myself though mm-hmm depends on how the sausage and bacon tastes if they have to you know if I have to choose I'm going with bacon consistency is important pineapple on pizza is it heresy absolutely I like pineapple on pizza what a bundle of sticks I wonder you like the rhino milk it ain't right my answer is simple because I don't like pineapple so it doesn't matter if it's on pizza or not but I do consider it it's putting it on pizza is like I don't know being like hey you can have some toast I accidentally I had pineapple nearby and I moved my hand carelessly and I accidentally knocked some pineapple on this pizza it's like I accidentally destroyed the best food in the entire world which is objective pizza is the best food and do you know why because you can have any topping so whatever food you like the most you could just choose that as a topping pineapple when you think of like anyone in the world that doesn't like pizza anyone communists well they don't like food in general so I had a friend they're not a friend anymore but they used to argue that um something tasted sandwich flavor and I was like what the fuck is sandwich flavor and they were like there's so many different kinds of sandwiches I was like it's pizza flavor and he was like yeah that makes sense what do you mean you would depend what pizza it is he's like well every pizza has cheese and I was like no it doesn't though in defense of him when people say pizza it is almost certainly meant that they mean like dough and cheese you know and things there's a lot of pizzas that aren't that though yeah I know but just in the colloquial sense whenever you say pizza we all pretty much think of I would give you it for pizza but what about sandwich though the only thing that's consistent about that is bread and bread's coming completely different not even all bread tastes the same like you have sourdough and ciabatta and rye and whiten wheat really testing rags his knowledge of breads today he's already named more breads than I know of he's gonna say white bread brown bread you have baguettes well toast isn't a type of bread it's just what happens it's cheese bread brioche pita bread ciabatta I think you might be reading enough google now no no because I used to work in a restaurant cornbread pumpernickel and pumpernickel is often confused with rye that's a made up word and then we have our croutons bread and then little chunks of bread like little dried chunks of bread I said pitas but we also have tortillas there's like 2,000 people right now listening to you list breads there's English muffins wait does that count surely they do I should know the answer to that because English muffins are kind of like crumpets aren't they you've already breached my crumpets my knowledge of bread is already done and dusted are breadsticks its own type of bread or is it just like bread in the shape of a stick because I already said baguettes yeah crazy bread it's like normal bread yeah god I really don't think I can think of any other kinds of breads Jenna's guessing that you used to work in subway for what you said no because I know a lot of things like pumpernickel you could substitute it for rye and most people don't know they wouldn't know the difference oh of course I should have thought of it earlier but we were talking about T'Challa and of course there's Chala bread someone in the chat said alt-right youtubers list breads I shall continue Claw should have been the main bad guy he was far more interesting and better acted how do you three feel about that oh pretzels wait can you re-read the question because now I'm just thinking of Claw should have been the main bad guy he was more interesting and better acted I'm not sure about better acted I just like Andy Circus and I thought that Claw was interesting to me so I was like yeah I'd take him as a main bad guy I'm not sure he would have made sense story-wise as a main bad guy I mean it would have to be a complete re-write to make him the main bad guy well it had to completely re-write a whole lot of things about Black Panther but Wolf how dare you implying things Wakanda would still lose the wall because the world finally had a reason to wipe that disease-infested eyesore of a continent off the map that's just wow love you guys love you guys keep up the good work wish they didn't kill Claw and made him made him sound made him sound isn't that maybe he just wanted him to sound exactly like Smeagol I'm not sure there's many interpretations of that oh my god Mola I was just re-watching your show well now it's live death to all colonizers legato blue summons from Trigun who wanted to kill everybody is a better villain than Killmonger message wait somebody donated and then message retracted interesting I didn't even know you could do that that's very strange pouring myself a nice glass of rhino milk for the stream seriously though good to see you here CSS there you go friendly I've been watching each of your channels for a long time and I find those to be both informal entertaining the vitality and passion put into each video featured is not easy to find this day and age so keep up the good work and stay safe thank you very much Illumina fucking hell Illumina I believe Illumina and that was a hundred dollars as well so Christian very generous and that was a nice thing that he said about all of us you guys should be like oh my god thank you yeah oh my god I'm so sorry so it said so out of the loop what the fuck is rhino milk so when you milk a rhino that's the liquid that comes out yeah it well we assume MCU Ultron incorporates Tony's personality while originally was mapped off Hank Pym and was far more creepy logical in his motivation I would assume the comic version of Ultron was probably better than the film but obviously I don't know and yeah I did know that he was Hank Pym was involved as well they didn't do that with the MCU the dark world is a plot hole in my brain ah that's actually you could actually say that for pretty much all of us plot hole in my brain for more than three friends and I went to see the new predator movie first words out of my mouth when I walked out was fuck that movie we were all pissed well my video should be satisfactory then because I hated it we're gonna say something then someone I feel like I might have interrupted somebody well I gotta I do have to be on my way I will catch you guys later on the flim flam it's been fun Rex we'll see you next what was it Wednesday was the plan I will see you next day ok oh there it goes ok so um no that faggots gone I know we can actually have a proper stream now for fuck's sake speaking of Norse mythology have you guys read Rick Reardon's the latest book series Magnus Chase that are based on Norse myth I mean I certainly haven't Wolf might have probably no they have so many books to read fucking nude people keep like telling me have you read this book why don't you read this book and I'm like I can have 200 books I have yet to read aw damn we got one for rags it says I was a console gamer a few years ago now I'm a maniac I just bought an rtx 2080ti rags was right he said love you guys too I'm so sorry that rags just left he must have done that deliberately he must hate you but uh thank you thank you very much um big difference between Loki and Killmonger was that Loki was adopted by his father's murderer yeah that's actually a good point in terms of uh I think this is the thing Loki has a lot to say about that in the uh in the film um it reminds me of uh do you guys I know Wolf has seen Game of Thrones have you seen it Jay I've not well I've seen the first season and then I sort of forgot where I was in it and I haven't picked it back up yeah actually sorry it's season two well it's not too much of a spoiler or anything it's Theon is uh told to appreciate uh what Ned Stark did for him and he's he has a line where he says something like yeah everyone keeps telling me how I should be so uh thankful to my captors um for how well they treated me or something like that and it's kind of similar to Loki's position in a way I don't know the connection um just looking at the last Jedi is a troll movie help because if you look at it with the trash that followed it looks like Ryan and Kennedy were trolling I mean there's a lot of theories about that but I'm pretty convinced that was something they thought was great I mean millions of people thought it was great too you know a lot of very respected channels on YouTube thought it was a masterpiece so I'm convinced that they believe they did a great piece of work and that's they're not very respected anymore well yes there's been a a resurgence of I can't even know what to call it stuff happened uh it's been fun but I have to go to work tomorrow good night good night sir um humans come from Africa apes come from Europe what didn't everybody everybody was apes at one point though right or whatever I don't know what the species genus common ancestors whatever that seeing venom tonight when can I expect a review uh it's at the beginning of this video but basically I'm not doing a video on it because I can't really see much of a reason to um rags profile pic is cropped love that floofy sheeb touch I thought oh yeah well it would have been cropped because obviously it's just the face sure from x-men first class is the best most evil villain that was Kevin Bacon wasn't it I can't remember what his goal was I think so his power was to like turn explosions into energy and then like kill people with it or something you could also make himself younger I don't know yeah uh fun note staying in the comics kills himself so Tony won't claim a moral victory over him by arresting him that could have been cool in the film obviously and all I remember from first class was when they like tried to nuke the each other and then they're like let's nuke the beach instead oh yeah the Russians and like the Americans just go yeah let's nuke the beat it that's a weird problem and then uh Magneto is like no I'm gonna nuke all of you then and then um Xavier's like no don't do it and then he gets shot in the spine and then all the nukes fall and then the Russians and Americans are like let's us beat friends now and then they completely forget that they try to nuke the beach and yeah I hope you invite weekend warrior to eFap with you that is something I'm gonna look into because a lot of people have been asking for weekend warrior obviously we got to do the hero response first which we can't have a guest for that because it's gonna take so long even with me rags and wolf I like pineapple on pizza from my point of view you are the heretics different reader response theory I guess well you know that is an Anakin quote and Anakin was a bad person so there you go I'm going to say that you're a bad person at least he's better than the dark elf that's true and someone said Ezekiel so thank you all for the donations I will read any more that come through after the next video which is going to be specifically chosen because for one I really like predator it's like one of my favourite films wolf is aware of it and I believe Jay watched it today in prep for this so you got it nice and fresh Jay's channel involves responding to cinema sins and that's something we haven't covered on this podcast yet because we find like how would I explain this cinema sins is like a joke to us like the other people like just right or whoever else they really try and come across as intellectually breaking something down and offering insight and it's like okay let's see how accurate they were just like captain midnight was sort of going for that cinema sins you guys you guys go ahead I got a piss real quick okay wait for you to come back you're right no you can go ahead do it do it cinema I mean what's your did you ever like cinema sins Jay was there ever a point where you watched them and thought this was fun when I started I've always just enjoyed watching cinema sins just sort of as background noise but I think as soon as I started making my series which I did because I did I made it because I enjoyed the content I wanted to sort of well basically I made it because I just sort of wanted to make something and I thought this would be a fun thing to do and then as soon as I started thinking about the videos more I thought yeah when you think about them too much it's much harder to enjoy I like it as background noise I don't really like it as anything was there a video that made you go hang on a minute like you like this too much the video on the force awakens literally starts with you know how the opening scene of the force awakens is Snoke's Star Destroyer moving in front of a planet and it's silhouetted in front of this of the planet the first still on that is Jeremy says it's a shadow and he he says he describes the sun as I'm sorry I have to figure out what he said because there are lots of layers to it of just he said it was a shadow when it was clearly a silhouette and you could tell because the stars behind it you know what it's like a moon or whatever right or like a another planet or something and he's like that's a shadow and then he also says when he mentions the sun he says this galaxy's sun like how can you say the word like that's not what a galaxy is a galaxy if it only had one sun that would just be that would just be a sun so you know I was thinking there are like several flaws and we're like about two seconds in the video so that's the thing that made me go you know what I think maybe this isn't this isn't flawless movie criticism what dare I ask did you think he was flawless at one point maybe when I was about 12 okay because I was going to say I remember the novelty when he first released videos I believe Avengers is one of the first films he covered and somebody sent the video to me with the tagline it's like the film is not as good as you think it is and I remember watching it and being frustrated and being like this ridiculous but then as time went on I was like oh he does this to like all films and I started kind of enjoying it just as a sort of I don't know someone making some you could watch a film and then you could watch his video and be like oh yeah that's kind of a fun take on it I guess but then it got to the point where I was just like good god the jokes are not funny anymore and I can't even tell how tonally I can't tell how to take his videos like I'm not sure if I should be learning from this or if I should be just pretending nothing actually comes from a place of intelligence or not I don't even know what he was trying to get across with it and then I watched a bunch of videos criticizing him and I was like yeah I'm out the only video I'm sorry you can go ahead the strangest thing about it is that whenever he's asked about what he's what he's talking about why he does what he does he'll give different responses just sort of depending on how the question was phrased so I've seen him say oh no it's all satire it's all just jokes we don't in turn to be taken seriously we're not making actual film criticism a lot of the stuff we do is wrong and that's intentional for satire and then in other interviews he'll say no we think that there are serious problems with Hollywood at the moment and we made this series to just sort of show those problems and to get across what we think the actual problems with movies are and what needs to be fixed so how can you go into making a series with both of those viewpoints and not come out with like you know those are conflicting ideas you can't put both in the same series the same video and a lot of people started to compare his videos to his actual takes right like he had a channel I'm pretty sure he took the channel down now where he actually like did his initial reactions to films and they were like how come your initial reactions often reflect these videos if your initial reactions are actual criticism and then these videos are just jokes because that makes sense and yeah and so it's gone to the point where I don't intend to ever watch his videos I'll cover him because he's kind of a joke but he is probably the most popular if you could call it film reviewer of sorts on YouTube I'm pretty sure he has like the highest numbers I think it might be the only video or videos that I liked from him was his I think it's like a two part series on completely eviscerating the fourth transformers movie because oh my god that movie was was that the one with Megatron could transform into cubes and flow I can't even remember it that movie was magical and how incompetent it was well you really felt those two and a half hours drag like I can't you know you can ask me the same question if you're like why did you watch it I can't answer the question myself but I may as well ask you well I watched it when it came out because it was like oh they're trying to actually do something different from like the first three which are like the exact same thing but it gets progressively worse so I was like well maybe it'll be good and then it was like no it was so it was so much worse than the others so much worse that Michael Bay was like let's go back with the fifth one and try to rekindle all the things people still hated about the first three but hated slightly less than number four and they got a fifth one as well right that was the newest one that came out that was what he did he undid pretty much everything from the fourth one including the Megatron turning into a cube cloud it's it's hard to talk about that movie because it just makes me laugh every time I think about how retarded it was well if both of you have either heard of or know anything about but what you take on cinema wins I really like cinema wins I haven't seen I mean I know of him but I I'm just not really interested I'm just, I want the in between I'm not a huge fan of either like I don't want to wholly have us like I need to watch more of cinema wins but I think cinema wins is more accurate to the film question mark I haven't seen enough of him to actually claim that definitively and I do like the idea that you try and be positive about everything it's a noble endeavor I suppose but I mean it's if you're actually like if you're actively ignoring sort of writing issues just to make people feel better about a film isn't that just as bad as ignoring the good things in a film to make it look bad if you know what I mean I think either way when the premise of the show is just to point out everything good about something people should understand that you're going to ignore the things that are good or bad respectively would you say that they're no worse than each other then in a way? I personally I prefer cinema wins just because generally I find it a lot easier to enjoy a film than to dislike it plus I think it's genuinely easier to most films will have something that you can praise about them I mean you know you can take what's it really just everyone agrees is a trash film like a room I've not seen the room so I couldn't oh my goodness I know it's on my bucket list you should definitely check that one out you'll have some fun with it but um yeah no you're right there are always ways to just argue that something's good if it has a human in it you could be like I relate to this human because they do XYZ and it's neat because they make choices but you'll often have to like the guy who's doing the Killmongers you have to just sort of skit around certain things when something is a problem it has to actually be a problem but as in with cinema since format with cinema since format something has to be like actually an issue before they can really talk about it but for something to just be a win it seems more like it can you can you can praise something for not being shit like you can be you can say this could be worse and that's technically praise could you not do the reverse of that this could have been better I mean you could but in my experience they don't do that yeah sure um but yeah let's let's give this a shot this is actually relatively new as well that's why I was interested because I didn't realize he hadn't covered this yet so I can see how cinema sins is doing these days I was supposed to be in 13 minutes or less thing oh it's for clickbait I reckon I mean it's a it's a big clickbait trope to have a number in the title of whatever it is but why I don't know but I mean apparently it works it gets more people to click what you do if there's a number in the that's crazy because this is the thing I'd read the title and I'd be like what do you mean in 13 minutes or less does he not know how long his video is you know the video is the video is 13 minutes and 42 seconds so it's more alright yeah whatever he should be a legend and it's a sin that he's not didn't he go to jail for tax fraud I don't know that's probably why he's not a hero or legend or whatever and besides I like the last action hero so screw you man it's uh it's very much a satirey film so maybe it's complicated to argue why it's uh it's good but yeah he's made some good films I agree was that a sin? how the fuck is that a sin it's right no he also made it a sin for the biceps so oh it's a sin that he's not a legend how is he question isn't he a legend because he made these I don't know why am I even bothered this is how it's going to be through the whole video isn't it oh shit sorry I've gone ahead a bit he should be a legend and it's a sin that he's not bi-ception that's just like a meaningless bi-ception that's like there are some biceps on the screen let's say something with bi in it that's literally like one of the most iconic parts to the film people love this bit why would you sin it you would unsin it you would give it negative not to mention that wouldn't be bi-ception because that would have to be a bicep within a bicep that's not what this is this is like a dual bicep next to each other a dual bicep pretending to be adversaries when you're really friends measuring their dicks just for the benefit of the audience cliche he really likes the cliche thing doesn't he yeah I'm not even is that a cliche pretending to be adversaries when you're actually friends to measure I think I've seen it a couple of times I like with that if you've been a cliche at the point that this movie was made though probably not but I don't think you would care 87 this came out of it yeah of course you wouldn't care pretending to be adversaries when you're really friends measuring their dicks just for the benefit of the audience cliche what's the matter the CA got you pushing too many pencils are they really arm wrestling in midair have you ever tried that it's nearly impossible it's like Ernie saw over the top four well if you arm wrestle in midair you need both parties to essentially be fair and hold their elbow in the same position on the other person doing it in good faith which I'm assuming because they've done this before is what's happening it is tough to arm wrestle in midair though he's right now that I think about it there was when he referenced that cliche there was Han and Lando when they first met but you know there is a reason for them to hate each other though and he actually betrays Han as well that's true four months before this came out doesn't have forgotten this guy's name was it Dylan yes black guy's Dylan so doesn't Dylan betray Dutch anyway well he doesn't betray him he just tricks him he says we're doing this for X reason and then turns out it's Y and he's like well I got you to do the job anyway they're good by the end of it and yeah this is the thing Arnie assumes they're friends there's no reason why he wouldn't assume they're friends at this point up until that I imagine if everything had gone right he'd never spoken to him after what he did you know like that that would be too much sort of thing couldn't help himself general my team always works alone you know that I'm afraid we all have our orders major and that fucking works well if Arnie's team lives by its rules it turns down this job and we have that's the point they accepted the job under the assumption that they were working alone and then they throw Dylan in as well and he's like that's not the deal and he's like yeah well we all have our orders no moving so of course they have to accept any and all last minute stipulations that's his general of course he has to accept stipulations from his general okay Arnold, Apollo, Creed, Jesse, the body man this was kind of the expendables before the expendables felt the need to exist also how is that a sin let me just spam the pause button like how the fuck dare you Jesus he just points out something that's a thing he's like yeah okay, Sid oh it's like 1987 was giving a terrible warning to California and Minnesota that only Elon Musk could have figured out but he was only 16 is anyone paying attention to this? I think I am but nothing's going in my brain it's like 1987 was giving a terrible warning to California that Elon Musk could have figured out but he was only 16 and nobody listened okay of course that's a sin too okay the best jungle camouflage is face makeup designed to make you look like you like a wrought iron fence that's halfway through being knocked over someone in chat might know better than me if a monk is there he might know better than me but I'm pretty sure that's legit that's like how you do actual covering because the idea is that you're not supposed to cover your entire you're not supposed to cover all your skin that's not the goal you're supposed to break it up so you don't look like a face as in you can actually keep I know it's the I can't remember if it's like a British-American difference or something but I know that face camo stuff it doesn't have to cover every part of your skin that's kind of where I'm going with this it's supposed to break your face up that's the point of it I'm pretty sure this is not not actually a thing that's wrong but you wouldn't know that from his I could just google it but I don't think I can be asked because we'll be here forever if we google everything he says no such thing old buddy this is getting better better minutes what kind of elite crew strike force alpha unit ranger sealed delta team thing doesn't maybe sort out these details I don't know before the mission begins well it looks like he assumed they did have backup he just didn't check it I don't know is that such a big and I don't think he would have denied the mission if he had known that previously he said he wants to work alone that's another thing yeah I don't know this doesn't doesn't seem like a problem but again this is interesting because it's like so is this a legit conversation we're having right now about a flaw potentially in the script or you just are you joking yeah who knows okay if this is eye black to help with glare from the sun like baseball players use you've gone too far if this is like Robert Downey Jr in Tropic Thunder you've gone way too far well that's not as far as Robert Downey Jr when no it's not specifically less far I assume it's partially a reference to the fact that he's like Billy's like you know I would have to check but I assumed especially considering his character that he's more Native American compared to the rest of them and that that could be actual like I don't know tribal style paint that he's using instead of he did like take off his shirt for like no real he's the hunter out of the group isn't he arguably spiritual or something but he just references I think that would go and like go with his character but it doesn't matter because this is a joke question he had to beep ladies and gentlemen the former governor of the great state of Minnesota no one will be that's in the movies not a real thing seated during the barely visible walking through the jungle portion of the movie what why was anybody what does that mean it doesn't make any sense are you saying it's not exciting I don't know if I was going to if I was going to make the point that a part of the movie isn't exciting I would have made it to like five minutes of credits at the beginning that's just sort of over big footage of people arriving in places no one will be seated so as in like people are going to go get on the edge of their seat maybe yeah someone in charge said I think he's saying it's boring it's like okay fine if that's what he's saying fine walking through the jungle portion of the movie in anything to you I'll adjust another rebel patrol cool cool cool is anyone going to mention the pirate plank behind you that's not a that's not a part of the helicopter that they found it's not a plank it's a pirate plank is this supposed to be like an ironic joke or something why would it be a pirate plank I really hope this was I really hope this was intended theoretically but how would you know just just bear with me here what if what if that's actually Noah's arc and he had a plank so he could throw the animals off when they misbehaved that would totally make sense in the world of Predator and this is where Noah's arc landed so that's why there's a plank I just love the idea that it's you know I'm 90% sure that's a part of the helicopter they found but if there's a random pirates plank in the middle of the set why would it be a pirate plank I guess that's what his point is it's like you have to comment on it okay because it's super obvious and man made and utterly demands you comment on it show off you literally landed 15 minutes ago I'm pretty sure your water supply is doing just fine no need to bear grills the local wildlife so quickly but you'd be saving water by doing that plus that's showing what kind of character he is he's that one with nature a little bit that's kind of the why even bother right the water grills the local wildlife so quickly it's a sin guys bird kicking seems likely what why would that be unlikely they're both specialist groups that do hard task jobs and Hopper was assigned to the exact same for the exact same reasons as Arnie's team was why wouldn't I can buy that they've met they're both ragtag teams that do these sorts of missions that's why we would assume that they probably are aware of each other because they'll often be chosen between but fine someone in the comment in the chat said you're the worst predator I've ever heard of but you have heard of me I I know this man seems likely also didn't the dog tags say see he hopper maybe old Jim is just fine knocking back some bruise somewhere and poor Calvin Ezekiel hopper got predator instead is he is that a name or rank can he be a rank I suppose it could I don't know I genuinely have no idea but he does say Jim Hopper and that does say see he hopper but for starters it could be that he went you know Jim was a middle name he just didn't go by other than with his friends or something or it could be a rank I don't know but fine to look corporal ensign yeah it could be that again I'd need to talk to a military friend to be able to know that for sure actually couldn't we just um let's just google predator Jim Hopper we're gonna be googling half the shit for this video I'm just curious if they've got like a full name or anything see he is not a rank it's always name captain Jim hopper was the commander of the us army blah blah blah blah blah yeah it doesn't mention like a full name or anything I mean that could be that could be a mistake but again yeah it wouldn't fucking matter but yeah fair enough I don't know I'd have to get someone else to confirm if it's a real mistake then you know what fair enough that seems to be the point of cinema sins is to point out inconsequential stuff rather than anything game breaking yeah that's the thing I'd give him that one but I don't know if it matters at all to anything he saw a guy chopping wood two lookouts in a nest some guys eating and a headshot assassination but he did not see any fuel dumps yes there is one but he doesn't know that and neither do any of the rest of these guys Dutch sets the truck rolling into the camp with a bomb on it but hang on he said he's gonna attack the fuel dump and what he means by that is send the truck into the fuel dump as far as I know why isn't it reasonable that he would have seen it like we only this seems like a weird thing to because we're assuming that Dutch would have looked around the whole place we don't see every isn't this the area that he fires the car into yeah I remember and he says he's gonna attack the fuel dump meaning either that or some guys eating and a headshot assassination but some guys eating I'm pretty sure that area is the fuel dump see any fuel dumps yes there is one but he doesn't know that and neither do any of the rest of these guys Dutch sets the rolling into the camp with a bomb on it but no one ever sees him or looks back to see where the truck came from that's completely reasonable they assume that the car has just gone off his tracks they want to stop it yeah like you know what you know what I need to do right now is look over over at the truck to see if there's anyone there if you see a car runaway car go past you I imagine especially if this is a place where you chill you probably the first instinct would be like shit stop the car you would I think it's reasonable to assume that it's gone off on its own as opposed to someone's attacking you but whatever and how convenient for him that the old ass truck that isn't even being used as a truck anymore still has perfect alignment and continue straight into its dark it was already aimed didn't need to have perfect alignment because it was already in position and we already knew it worked because they were using the actual rotary to use a well I believe I watched this film recently like stop trying to these are the SIDS you guys even plan anything when you had a grenade launcher just buy a dozen grenades in here because they fucking launched a car that exploded into a building that killed like seven people why would you not want to open with that why would you fire a dozen grenades when you one and get the same job done why would you plan things when you cannot do that and blow shit up and they knock out with stealth all of the watchtower people before doing the like launching grenade shit this is a very bizarre sin as well and yes there's a hostage they want to save but I'll be damned if anything they've done so far shows any regard for the life of that hostage they don't even know where the hostage is yeah I'd agree with that it's pretty reckless they could have hurt him in the process but they do find out the hostage is dead anyway but no yeah I'll give them that but again like it's a part of the genre being that they're supposed to be 80s action people which they do ask about the hostage at one point someone in the chat said why fight a battle when you can go home there you go apparently Carl Weathers is a great ventriloquist because I didn't see his lips move an inch when he said that I swear to God no one in this scene filmed this scene on the same day this is as good a time as any to point out that the subtitles for this movie keep switching between telling me these gorillas are speaking Spanish and Russian like they're even trying to tell me what the English would be they just keep saying speaking Spanish and speaking Russian that's because you're not supposed to be able to understand it's not important yeah it doesn't matter to the film whatsoever in fact the aspect that they're speaking Russian is all we need for the plot because I believe Mack brings it up he says that some of these guys were Russian the subtitles are not for people who want to know what the rest of the dialogue is because it's not important it's just for people who can't actually hear the film for everybody's this is funny why even tell me the language they're speaking if I don't get to know the words because the fact that they're Russian is important to the plot not what they say the fact that they're Russian and like even if even if that wasn't important even if what language they were speaking wasn't important if you're not supposed to understand the dialogue anyway what else should the subtitles say it's just like words yeah for all we know the words were get them or blow them up or run away it's like do you really need that was that detrimental without it I don't know he's supposed this is a movie that's been out for what fucking coming up to 40 years like you could have you could have given it a rewatch to know that them being Russian is actually important to Dutch in terms of figuring out what Dylan's been up to but never mind speaking if I don't get to know the words also why hasn't the predator killed any of these motherf***ers he took out an entire other team of American special forces you're asking why the predator didn't assault the base that had like 30 to 40 people in it isn't he just like that's not what the predator does why would the predator maybe the new predator would do that but yeah see this is why a lot of people are like does cinemasins watch these movies and you're like I think he does but he deliberately plays dumb with a lot of this stuff like how could you assume these are problems I'm here to save the hostages but what the predators don't know these Russian Spanish assholes are here okay fine let's foolishly say he was strong enough to stay upright with the kind of recoil that bfg would kick back still that kind of minigun spits out up to 6000 rounds per minute not only are there not nearly enough shells on the ground but considering we see this gun firing for about two minutes during this I mean I'll give you this fine just who cares though yeah it's ridiculous that he's one manning a f***ing portable minigun the only reason they get away with it in Terminator is that it's a machine that could probably actually pick it up and use it like that but you know Jesse Ventura is not only a man but he actually has wounds as well it's like yeah but that's the point that the film is like look at how ridiculously overpowered these people are and then look what happens to them when they come up against the predator Jesse Ventura could probably do that I mean this is the thing we could have who knows maybe this is a custom made minigun maybe it's just Jesse Ventura's magic but your blocked bloodbath the 12,000 rounds of ammunition alone would have weighed almost 900 pounds wow he actually went to that length to prove that this is a problem I'm impressed we assume he did we have no idea if that's like accurate at all that's actually a good point yeah for all we know that's not true but assuming it is it's interesting you go to the lengths those lengths for this issue but not for like other stuff also this type of gun is so powerful it usually needs its own dedicated power source to operate much like my college girlfriend didn't you have a backpack that could have had a battery in there but also I think that was just for a joke that would still be my assumption the screenwriter knows this maybe the director too but this character sure as f**k does not know this who's there? Ima, Ima who? Ima go ahead and say if you take the time to deliver a lame joke to armed men before shooting them that they will shoot you first orange glad I didn't say banana but he caught them off guard I was going to say one of them was like collecting papers or something I'm pretty sure he delivered the line because he caught them off guard but again I think that was a joke I don't know if that was a real criticism we never know the lines are so blurred with what's actual criticism or what isn't you just may as well go you can just as easily go oh it's terrible because none of the criticism is valid you can also just as easily say oh it's fine because it's not at all real criticism and this is my f**king job to talk about this s**t I forgot myself here well this is the thing this is why I can't cover cinema sins I never f**king know what the hell you can take every criticism one way or the other it's so confusing if there's Central America and Ima god damn Chinaman too much racism there for me to even unpack is that racist he's saying well so he said that if these guys are Central American then Ima god damn Chinaman as in these are Russians a lot of them are Russians so they're obviously he can tell because isn't the typical Russian race white like this I think you might just be saying that the phrasing is racist well is it racist because they would typically be white people that they've just killed when Central American would make them Hispanic or at least like you'd be able to tell that these people are not Central American if they were Russian and then he says what's like the complete opposite of black skin who'd be like well white or would obviously be pretty f**king different so he's only commenting on the fact that it's pretty clear that they aren't the race that they assumed they were but I guess this is kind of my point is pointing out race racist it's the current year it's not a comment from Mac to be racist he's literally pointing out quickly how they know that these people aren't Central American I think it just might be about the language I think it might just be about the language I don't know I don't know if that's considered a racist word Do you think it's Chinaman like he considers that to be a slew I don't know if it's one of those things that I've just never really been aware of because I've only ever really heard it used properly so I don't know if it's like a slur or anything yeah that's interesting I don't know if I just assumed Chinaman meant a man from China yeah but a lot of racial slurs start out being literal descriptions of the place that the person is from alright well if that is a slur then fair enough I had no idea I think it's technically like supposed to be or at least technically looked at nowadays as a slur because it's used in regards to like all Asian people oh okay yeah that could make sense but I mean it's so inconsequential and means so little it's not worth bringing up it doesn't like he doesn't ever bring up real like proper social issues he'll always just say like for any any social issue that could be like sexism homophobia racism whatever he will genuinely just cover all by saying like that's racist interesting that he said too much racism there for me to even unpack sin it three times and let's move on like okay don't know if he's making a legitimate point there like is he actually even if it was racist though what would it matter I mean this was made 31 years ago I mean to be fair you can't just like brush it off away by going oh it's like it's off its time yeah we can I would happily admit that it's um a slur if it actually is used like that I just didn't know but I'm interested to hear his take on this he's seen I don't know if this I just want to listen to the way he words this he's like serious about it too much racism there for me to even unpack sin it three times and let's move on it's just a slur how is that too much to unpack the cow does that mean he's referring he's probably referring to more than just that I don't know I mean if it is it's gonna say we've clearly put more thought into this than he ever would have considered so we may as well move on I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger and this is my thinking face behold how much it appears as if I'm thinking son of a bitch okay I don't know how to respond to that honestly I'll keep him like cause that made me laugh what does Addy not portray that he's thinking there I mean that's kind of the charm of it I mean you listen to some of his lines and you can clearly tell that the accent is kind of getting in the way of it like coming across naturally I guess but that's kind of part of the charm of Arnold Schwarzenegger I mean if that's what the point of this is Arnold isn't a very good actor you'd be like alright fine I did really enjoy just his accent in this film it contributed it made it more fun a lot of people say that Predator is one of the films where Arnie does his best acting and as far as I'm concerned he's not bad in the film he's bad compared to like Mr. Freeze you can't bring up Mr. Freeze and be like oh it's bad that's like bringing up Dark Elf again it's real it's better than here's as if I'm thinking son of a bitch is dug in like an Alabama tech you mean Nick Saban I may not know the expendable who's Nick Saban I don't know anyone in chat want to tell us who Nick Saban is dug in like an Alabama tech you mean Nick Saban let me look it up Nick Saban also laughing at my men are not expendable they're like why would you you saying it's funny because they get killed so it's a football coach at University of Alabama what this is the wrong Nick Saban I don't know that's the only one that comes up would you I don't know enough about American football would it be like to be dug in in American football would be I don't know enough about football everyone's saying he's a football coach so it must be that Sinus has literally just uploaded everything wrong with Deadpool 2 I'm going to cover that soon go for it air surveillance says we got gorillas all over the place we never see any more gorillas the rest of the film just FYI because they're running away from them they point this out this guy has a stabbing sensitivity of data from Star Trek the next generation how did he expertly stab the scorpion without stabbing any of this guy he's a fucking trained army dude you don't have to be trained to stab the scorpion he clearly felt it the knife clearly went in him a little bit so also hang on he said how did he do that without stabbing any of this guy's shirt or flesh I could probably do that yeah I reckon I could do that look he was a mac was chewing gum in the scene he's put gum on the end of the knife as well that would make it a lot blunter compared to an actual knife just FYI yeah that doesn't seem like I think I would be able to do that of all the things they do in this film that doesn't seem that unlikely shirt or flesh exactly how many times has he done this shit before I'm Sunny Landham and this is my laughter noise behold how much it sounds as if I'm laughing making fun of someone for their laugh alright yeah over a minute and 12 seconds of predator vision which is basically black screen with some sporadic thermal splotches barfed up onto the image this is basically blindness if you ask me yeah well the whole point is that we have no idea what it is and it's supposed to be tension suspense and then he walks right up to the scorpion implying that he's in the position now that we just saw our main character as you mentioned I mean yeah sure he could say it doesn't look very good 1987 years ago when seeing only heat signatures and hearing only garbled audio put you at a fairly large disadvantage that's the point the predator does have a disadvantage hang on surely though I was saying this and just thinking it's showing that he has different senses to what we have true well he's saying that like isn't this vision not even that great and it's like it's precisely how Arnie nearly defeats him up until the end like it's not very fun if your enemy is 100% impossible to defeat so his weakness is that he views everything through heat signatures like lots of species have different senses like this isn't dogs have really bad eyesight and really good smell isn't that well he's saying like it puts you at a fairly large disadvantage overall but the predator kills them all except what this is such a weird point there's so many ways you can break that down this movie is 85% people silently walking through the woods while tense music plays except for all the other stuff I agree so don't you kind of get the sense the predator is f***ing with them easily dispatch the team set before them he's been watching them since they arrived he's a score killer he'll do it one at a time he does not want to just kill them if his only goal was to kill them as fast as possible yes he would have attacked them by now don't you get the sense that the predator is f***ing with them yes that's literally exactly what he's doing the predator plays plays recordings of themselves to them like of course he's f***ing with them I mean if all he wanted to do was kill things he could have just used his shoulder rocket and blown up all the the whole camp beforehand if he wanted to kill things he probably didn't he probably brought like actual mass destruction weapons to us that's the thing he doesn't... he's not interested in simply killing he wants to f***ing fight them and please note that the first person he kills is the person who runs off for good reason but they still he waits for them to be separated before starting again so many ways to break that down yes that is the point congratulations you figured out what the plot is we can't fault this one on his accuracy exactly yeah god like to me I'm just like you must be desperate dude like you're like oh there's ADR there exists this is the thing ADR is in like every film I do ADR technically speaking for my videos right I'll like if I f*** something up I'll re-record and it's like oh I didn't say that originally obviously my face isn't on screen you can't necessarily tell but it's okay dude it's okay ever once even moving his lips why is predator making these clicking noises and giving away its position right before it attacks what difference did it make like do okay let's say he did it for excitement he did it to creep out his prey he did it to distract the person because they were confused does it matter now it's just a noise it makes genuinely be how it breathes who knows isn't there a blood how the f*** do you know that what do you mean how does he know that she hasn't got any wounds god he's a fascinating channel because you start to wonder it's like how the hell did you get popular and it's like well would you argue it's like he's absorbed every single person who didn't like every film he's covered and now he's pretty much just got everyone yeah I think there is a lot of just especially films seen is I think the ones that are like really get people in because if you hadn't seen Predator you'd just be like yeah this all sounds pretty reasonable hmm so and you do see it in a lot of the comment sections people going like oh I guess I won't bother with this film then I never get that why would you because this is the thing some people like you should cover cinema since more because he has an impact and it's like well if I don't know about your take on this but can you believe the idea that people watch his videos and go yep this film is probably bad I struggle to think of any intelligent people watching his videos in general I mean this is the thing you could I totally had to start watching it casually he just being like yeah this is kind of fun but to actually be like okay this is legitimate criticism and Predator is clearly a flawed movie you're like yeah wow it's like you're gonna watch it it's like no a lot of the people watch who watch it I get this I get this said to me a lot just like why do you take this channel so seriously it's all just jokes and I can get why people like watch it for that reason I mean my response to that was as always just why do you assume I'm taking it seriously why do you see my video and immediately assume my video isn't just jokes but that's a whole different like kind of worms but I think like the majority of his audience don't really take what he says seriously well that's the thing right so I think one of the first things we talked about was how I've never assumed that Cinema Sins actually hates these films I've just assumed he wanted to try and cover the bad in every film and if that's his goal fine whatever but people are taking it as if these films are bad which I don't know if he if he paints every single film with the same brush then obviously there is no standard we would assume right I mean though he does you can tell when he specifically really doesn't like a certain film oh I'm just gonna add like five extra sins here just because I'm still watching this piece of shit like he will say stuff like that if he really doesn't like a film or if actually it's just the film is unpopular and he thinks like that's what people want to see genuinely can understand watching it for fun that's fine but people who take it as a review of a film is just woof and this is the thing to reassure anybody who's listening those people exist and it's the reason why J's channel exists it's like we need to need to help these people understand that a lot of a lot of the defences is oh it's just jerks and then you'll look at a clip and it's just he gets something wrong about the film by taking something out of context and he says something that isn't really true like how is that a joke or satire that's just wrong there's yeah that's the thing it's like it's almost like the other people will say it's my opinion over on cinema since you'd be like but it's satire it's a joke it's a you'll need you'll just have to say a word that means what you said is invalid anyway see what else he's got god damn it I mean yeah I can kind of agree with that should have put a bit of shit on him there to be like you know a bit of rubble and dust and whatever else this actor is too clean for my liking animal fake out jump scares are the most annoying jump scares I don't think it was a jump scare I remember that part it's not a jump it just pans over or at least cuts over you could tell it was like building up to something but I don't think a jump scare is what it was building up and even then again 31 years ago it wouldn't have been a cliche even if that was meant to be a jump scare and on top of that it's distraction as well because the predator does kill him seconds after this the predator doesn't really understand like the concept of what makes a cliche a cliche in the first place he just says it's a cliche as though this movie was made yesterday the tension would have been real for that I've forgotten his name as well I don't remember his name as well Blaine I think the character is so the tension would have been actually real for him because he's hearing like rustling in the jungle while he knows he's being stalked the music reflects how he's feeling and then he's like oh it's okay it's just a thing for me it's contextual and like I said this is not a fake out basically it's like there's rustling oh it's just an animal and then it pans up and the predator's there and it fucking kills him to me I'm like that seems a bit maybe he's gonna cover that he skipped it okay he does love your cinema sense good thing all these weapons have the unlimited ammo cheat code activated on them well I'd say again context so Blaine is killed his clearly best friend goes nuts and fires the minigun into the forest trying to tag whatever he just saw which looked to be like a fucking ghost and obviously the team catch up with him and just join in the fire again because like why not I suppose you I could understand it's wasteful I just I don't really I the point is to show that the predator survives it not only that but there's there's a sort of meta element to this that I hesitate to use against someone like cinema since I don't think you'd accept it but this is supposed to be this is how you solve problems in 80s action movies as an actual cliche at this point like you just watch commando and a bunch of other films and it works as it did in the compound earlier but this does not work on the predator that they they're brawn their weaponry is useless against the predator or you know it does tag him in fairness but that's again more interesting than not tagging him at all I would argue but fair enough shooting this much without a target in sight might be considered wasteful this prisoner girl that is somehow being held captive with a couple zip ties is the only one to see the going how is that somehow being held captive like you can't get out of those he's gonna say you can't just tear off zip ties dare you to try Jeremy but that's that's interesting it's like oh somehow she's the only one who manages to spot this it's like yeah that could happen yeah that's true why shouldn't she be the only one who notices that it's not like it's it could happen I'm not you know you could be like why didn't the the team find it they go and look where everyone was shooting this this shit was quite close to them if I remember weren't they a little preoccupied with something else at the time to notice like some weird green shit on a leaf it's literally like if I to try and get super nerdy on you I believe they're in a group and it's a little bit forward into the left is where the blood is and they go and search off into the middle right and they say they can't see anything and then as they leave she picks up this like it's believable enough logistically I think but I will happily admit it's a little bit of a stretch there you go alien blood on the leaf and because she's seen terrible decisions in sci-fi movies before that's not a terrible decision just fine I mean she's curious about the luminescent blood I don't know to be fair if I saw something green and like if I saw some green luminous fluid my first instinct probably wouldn't be I'm gonna touch that no same I would probably be like I don't want to play with it a little bit move it around poke it I don't know I'd probably get a stick and like see if the stick disintegrates what I would say is like this may have been a valid problem to have if the blood did something but it all it does is allow her to tell them later that it's bleeding so like who cares if she touched it doesn't actually have any effect on the film whatsoever yeah I mean I guess I guess the same could just be that her first instinct when seeing when when seeing a green glowing goo is to touch it but I mean they just shot on the predator it's like he's trying to say that this is on par I can never remember the character's name but you know the guy shoving his face inside the alien egg and the facehugger comes out and implants the alien in his chest and it's not the same you're touching some weird green stuff on a leaf you're not well this is the thing see like I'm totally willing to discuss Eddie flaws the predator film has but you never know if this like should this be discussed or is this just a joke one or does this even matter and you're like probably not I'm Bill Duke and this is my sad face behold how much it appears is if I am sad any any any takes on that one I caught nothing I'm Bill Duke and this is my sad face behold how much it appears is if I am sad he's like it's the sin that he's not really sad and that it's just pretend is he saying this is bad acting is that his point bad acting do you think it's bad acting well no I think it's good acting I think it's a little I agree but fine I guess he's saying in order to be as dexterous with these tools and machines as possible wouldn't you think this creature might shave down those finger claws a bit I'm just saying someone needs a predicare where's the girl I could waste several minutes debating which of these fools is more to blame for the girl disappearing dude they they they was tripped wires for whether or not the thing that's been hunting them has just been activated of course they lost track of the girl it's also pitch black like come on and it doesn't even there's no effect on the plot because she stays which is actually important to how she's developing as a as a captive in the film but ultimately it's fine using the trees why would they assume why would they assume that why would they assume the enemy is using trees of course we know because we get the perspective of it but fuck it out the predator is actually surrounded by a barrier of impenetrable trees yeah oh reference you've been very good with the memes today I don't know what it was she speaks English but setting aside how and why she speaks English why did she wait so long to reveal it to her captors why would she escape she was trying to escape and then because of the predator she decides to work with them that is in the film even then what why would she need to reveal it to them what reference what I mean what a relevance would it be to be like oh hey I speak English by the way it's like okay you're still our prisoner these people have captured me I'm gonna be as helpful to them as possible that sort of means she tries to escape up until the predator reveals itself and then she's like okay fuck it I'm with you guys yeah why why is this a sin there's no reason for Anna to suddenly change and be helpful yes there is there's no reason for her to suddenly be helpful come on this is probably the stupidest point he's made so far like you know what I mean like how did you not watch the film she actually helps when they sign up the next traps she's actually helping them ah he did the all I pulled out my knife and it seems like I don't understand how you could have you could see this film and say there's no reason for someone to like even if she was completely consequential like a completely different thing that she was changing her mind on that would have no relevance to the fact that the predator is there if you're in mortal danger you're gonna just change your mind about stuff like being presented with something that could kill you is gonna change your mind on stuff regardless of what it is apparently not apparently for all cinema sins understands about the film she is the predator that'll be a sin incoming but I'm actually cutting a free trick if it bleeds we can kill it I mean maybe it wasn't blood at all maybe she saw alien earwax or snot she literally says to him when the big man shot it it bled or something like that all the information he has from her is that it bled he hasn't even seen the glowing blood shooting it could have made it sneeze I guess maybe it's space gasoline powering some kind of space suit gizmo true true but you'll catch the important part of what dutch says if it bleeds we can kill it if it bleeds so yeah maybe it was space gasoline powering some kind of space suit gizmo wow he slowed this bit down didn't he wait that's just kind of necessary for copyright is it not no I mean you can show I think it's up to 9 seconds before you'll get hit with an auto bar but like you obviously wanted to just show the bit where he says the line instead of playing anything else so it usually shows a clip this slowly they say 9 seconds but I mean in my experience I mean I got I've been hit I think three or four times for two how to train your dragon movies and for the emoji movie of all things because I would want to claim that as mine as well so yeah and I didn't use clips longer than 9 seconds in any of those videos so I don't know yeah I don't always know the definitive rules I had a lot of trouble with the Jurassic World video but so I just tried to use it as little as possible of the actual film but like he didn't need to do this for this bit considering all the other stuff he's shown in there I'm gonna guess but yeah I just find it funny because he's played it so slowly that's our old pal pretty up dude during this oh so exciting jungle snare setting montage is there any reason for them or us to believe he isn't watching them lay all these traps um isn't he doing stuff with one of their bodies like he just captured Blaine's body he would have had Hawkins body from earlier and we know from seeing the film that he skins them and cleans their skulls so we can naturally assume that he's doing that and the Predator's not gonna see what they're doing really he's only gonna see them working on something that's the point he doesn't actually understand the word or the lines and that's why it works on him because he doesn't dutch actually says this he says he can probably see their tripwires but he can't see this so you won't quite understand what they're doing yeah and as we know he doesn't like to attack them unless they're alone which is the next time he attacks is when dutch is alone oh she literally went from prisoner and zip tie cuffs to speaks english now and is helping with the physical labor this answers his question from earlier because she doesn't want to die she doesn't want to die and that's the sin yeah what a crazy thing that a human would want survival that doesn't make any sense what makes you think he's gonna come in through here I also like that he brought up the zip ties again yeah he really he's got a thing for zip ties apparently every tree for 50 yards this is the only way in first of all in to what makes you so certain it's after you what makes you so certain it's after you what it's only killed two people in your group already and someone just highlighted as well the healing scene is just before they start making all this so we can just naturally assume it's doing that too and when it's spent all day watching you build these traps and never once tried to kill it again they were all together and that's precisely why dutch tries to go out on his own why aren't you watching the film why aren't you watching you build all these traps and never once tried to kill you second of all you were in a jungle you're not on like a skinny f***ing island or peninsula you're in a jungle I think it easily go around and ignore your 50 yard trees and this dialogue is almost offensive yeah but it does get hit with the trap so dutch was right I didn't even know at this point dutch's assumption was correct is what I'm saying the film proves him right so I don't even know why he's saying this the los hombres means the demon who makes trophies of man we just call that the Oscars is that a sin it's just a joke I guess dutch look how far out here dutch has wandered beyond their traps into the middle of the supposed battlefield and nothing so the predator either doesn't want to win or doesn't want to win yet but he gets caught seconds later why all these hours spent sitting obvious traps out in the open the predator does choose that moment to show up like I think the predator he chooses the very moment that someone decides to go off on their own just like he's been doing this whole time weird that isn't it almost like the predator does it by design such a strange piece of continuity that's how well he knows the story beats I can make it um leave it right you're fighting an alien that can blend into the forest NO seriously he's actually saying that they should have left him did you catch the part at the beginning that you made fun of when dutch said none of us are expendable so he made fun of that because it seems like apparently they are expendable and now he's disagreeing saying no you should be expendable don't get him let's don't get him at all background the wounded are all on their own as far as I'm concerned he didn't kill you because you weren't armed no sport he's right but it kind of ruins the fun that he's right and there's no good reason he should have figured that out on his own anyway but whatever movies gotta arm why not it's more of an assumption than a hard truth but I'm cool with it there's a lot of little things that would give you the impression that this thing isn't simply like hunting them to eat them or whatever it is curious that yeah and it's curious that he didn't kill her that's arnie's assumption it's like why wouldn't he kill her well she was weaponless because she was our captive that could be something someone in the chat said you guys are all autism predators want your final fluid come on oh god we're not judging this with the new film in mind if the predator is this visible while not even moving how did it set off that trap earlier right next to dodge and he didn't see it honestly once you know what you're looking for I'm not sure this came well this is obviously they don't know what they're looking for they die when they see it this is gonna say the person who just found this thing is about to be murdered just just fyi I'd take a severed arm continuing to shoot a semi-automatic weapon as much as the next guy but that finger definitely came off the trigger when it bounced that's it after all that billy build up we don't even get to see another unrealistic fight with outdated visual effects did you just answer your own question did you just answer your own question why don't we get to see it awkward I'm sorry but like yeah no we didn't need to see that fight the point is very clear they're leaving the big like they don't want to show the predator as much until the end is what I'm getting yeah the big fighters between arnie and the predator not between billy and the predator not only that but this is sold first for the horror factor not for we want to see our hero go out with a bang it's um do you guys remember like uh they're running and then we see billy like this and then you just hear him scream and they all turn around and they just stare down they're like the alley because they know that the predator is coming for them next honestly I think leaving it to the audience's imagination is much more I would agree with him if not for how this film progresses we get our payoffs with the predator with arnie not with billy yeah really just gonna schlock block us like that wait what that predator plasma cannon thingamajig blew a hole the size of minnesota and just even turret and blew the right hook clean off apollo creek it blows through flash but it doesn't quite blow through steel as effectively as flash what are the odds what did it hit what did it hit on him it is gun and it blew up the gun all right I didn't I didn't see that and he's like it blows through flash easily why can't it blow through guns as easily it's like because is what I was watching this I was thinking the same thing but I just didn't it yeah it destroys dutch's gun that's what makes him go caveman mode as well because he doesn't have any weapons how is it leaving dutch here with just a flesh wound because the gun blew up and the shards of the metal went into his arm making him bleed this very simple this is a chopper classic shorts and air line and all but exactly as she's supposed to do when she does indeed survive get in it what is what is what is that question get to the place that we can leave from does he think that she's gonna see the helicopter and then she's gonna stop and then a mass effect style wheel is gonna appear at the bottom of the screen it's gonna be like get in the chopper or stand still I can't even believe that's a question he's asking he's like what the fuck is she gonna do with a chopper it's like escape why would she do that I don't know I like the entire arriving there just going if only I'd been given more instructions this video makes a lot more sense if we assume that Jeremy thinks that she wants to die like all of the questions about it if she wants to kill herself this all makes sense well this is an annihilation so we can't oh that logic there we go make much more sense oh hey guys I know I'm just a local gal all the shrapnels right there not only that but he's saying so she gets to the chopper and she says I'm a local gal with the blood of your colleagues all over my shirt and all but I was distinctly told to get to this chopper so all aboard she directs them back to Dutch and they save him at the end and yet she knows their names so she can actually confirm that she was with them and that some things killed the mole while she was held captive she has information she can use she can speak English why is this hard to believe I don't understand but I was distinctly told to get to this here chopper so all aboard predator already shot him he's crawling because the predator shot him so why is the predator doing nothing right now whilst he crawls towards a weapon uh did catch the battery said about sport right didn't he already answered that same question earlier yes this guy's dumb as arnie flies up the edge you can clearly see he is above the trees and rocks but of course when he lands he has somehow been transported to above water my question is why even let the POV shot go on long enough to see the ground below yeah I can agree with that yeah I suppose I think you could probably edit it so you didn't have that one bit to help continuity that's that's fine I mean I know this was made in a time when you were probably editing with rocks and sticks and such but jeez I make it so obvious this stunt man looks nothing like Arnold and I think the movie is kind of literally can't see his face oh man here we go how do you know that you don't know that the mask strictly works as a as heat temperature detectors work on on it if it's alien technology maybe that's not the predator see him through trees earlier like I'm willing I'm willing to accept it I find it hard to believe that the the mud was enough and if you look at like the palm of his hand you can actually see the mud isn't covered enough so that should bring up like a little red dot or whatever but yeah this is obviously the film is saying whatever happened to Arnie with this mud it was enough to fool the sensors on the predator's thing that's what the movie is saying he does they show it in the film and he mixes in with the rest of the background I'm not even kidding you can watch this I would pull it up but it's a really cool part of the film with the predator's scans passed and you can see dutch's arm in his face mixed in with a bunch of trees and shit and you're like the predator doesn't know what to do with it and you're like I'm not even kidding you can watch this I would pull it up but it's a really cool part of the film with the predator's scans passed and you're like the predator doesn't distinguish it he just looks past and he's like nothing's here but obviously he's probably going to leave that bit out fourth what about his f***ing eyeballs doesn't at least some heat radiate from the eyes what is this substance on me that might have blinded my foe I shall acquire some from my shoulder to take a closer look so the audience knows for sure why this happened yeah and then Arnie actually says he couldn't see me they do work their ass off for the audience to understand what's happened even though it's pretty obvious but it's a very small problem the good news is at least they didn't make him actually verbalize he couldn't see me if you knew the psychopathic alien hunter was trying to track you down and somehow figured out that mud kept him from seeing you wouldn't you just slather that stuff on before going anywhere I think the assumption is that the predator's given up on him assuming that he exists and Arnie understands that that's why he has to call him back because he's like I'm not actually dead but I suppose to be safe you should probably put the mud on sure he just fell off a cliff and the predator went down the cliff as well and couldn't find him yes so I wouldn't if I was a predator at that point I would not assuming that Arnie was yeah it's pretty unlikely that he'd be alive the predator was like yeah he's definitely fucked in fact maybe he did notice Arnie so that he was cold thought he was dead you know you could put it that way that's an interesting way to look at it I suppose just saying if it were me I'd be so covered in mud it would look like Mr. Hankey was going out for a jungle stroll you might think this is where the movie went full home alone shows how young you are because this movie is where Home Alone got all its initial ideas from Home Alone was literally pitched as Predator with a kid I doubt that I have no idea I don't think that's true yeah it would be unlikely I think but I'd like to see that movie maybe this is a joke again this is one of his trademark jokes would you watch a Home Alone Predator crossover where where the kid has to fight against Predator I mean I would give it a shot if the Predator was played by Danny DeVito that's when I'd be involved you could call it Child Predator oh dear who are we going to see oh no Kevin Spacey kid in the suburbs also once again very kind of the Predator to peace out for a long stretch of time so Dutch can booby trap you he thinks he's dead Arnie has to call him back okay watch the film dude this is getting annoying section of the jungle in broad daylight let's talk about how Dutch tied this vine to this log he wrapped it around one end over and over and then tied a knot above that and somehow that multi-ton log hasn't simply fallen straight down out of that not secure wrap around vine condom I don't think Jeremy's ever seen a condom I don't even what was he saying that it's impossible that he could have tied the vines to the log to make it go up the way he tied it maybe wouldn't have held it which I can get behind that I guess I was about to say like I completely agree but the film is telling us he did a knot that did that like whatever we just move on someone in the chat pointed out why does it matter if it's daylight if the Predator doesn't see in that vision anyway yeah that's true daylight or not doesn't matter I guess he just wanted to point out that it was daylight I don't know do any of the characters know that the Predator has that kind of vision though I guess we assume that Arnie figured it out at that point but he was the same colour as all of his surroundings anyway the mud yeah I just thought it was a weird choice maybe he just thought you know I'm the same colour as the background that's why he didn't see me and that's why he doesn't keep the mud on as well because he doesn't realise that it's working as heat camouflage he's not though he thinks he's dead like how many times do I have to say this Arnie calls him back because he thinks he's dead and he's gone heat vision fire here in a bit when all his traps are ready he's going to roar into the jungle to draw the Predator to it and my point is why do you want to say the line again I mean yeah I guess I may as well the Predator thinks he's dead the Predator is a different part of the jungle with his trophies so when Arnie calls him back he goes to the source of the sound are we done is that enough with this f***ing signal fire going yeah no he chose to test fire that into the most rotten deadest tree on planet earth this arrow is alive I guess that tree was rotten and dead I guess yeah you can shoot a bone arrow into a tree and it will stick right probably not with what those arrows and that bow is but I mean who cares it's just supposed to be a point about how powerful it is again these are very I don't want to say the word nitpick because it's just everywhere they are nitpicks and that's the point instead of saying that I'll just say there are things that do not matter these things do not affect anything else it's like the ADR thing it's like yeah that's a thing it really is so it is the point though to be because if it was talking about stuff that really mattered you can see the last Jedi video I personally have quite mixed feelings about the last Jedi I don't hate it as much as I do but he doesn't mention any of the things he doesn't think Luke has been done justice most of his complaints are just sort of he complains a lot about the fact that fuel is a central plot element he says like why is fuel suddenly an element when it's never really been mentioned before in Star Wars and you're like can you actually talk about the film and the things that are wrong with it I mean you don't have to convince me that he would have made a bad video on the last Jedi considering this I mean there's a reason I stopped watching his videos right and I've not exactly gotten a resurgence of like yeah I should watch more of this because this just makes me annoyed of all the evil things predators have done I think killing a platypus might be the evilest well even if I buy that whole mud on your skin thing applying it directly next to a raging fire seems counter-intuitive also what is he looking at did he find a mirror out here all the things he just said I'm just like do we need to respond I think at this point I just want to get to the end it's panicking because something's attacked it and it can't see so it's firing everywhere I don't think it gives a shit if it can see or not because it's enemies cause it can't see him anyway but sure I better be careful shooting these explosives or I might be able to see it even less than not at all he's asking why wouldn't they have developed a weapon that would have been more non-explosive I mean I guess but still it's super effective though judging from the rest of the film it looks like that system does not get in the way of the predator's vision even a little bit humans can't see through explosions and we use explosives as well that's a good point actually we use rocket launchers that we can't see through them but we use them so we've developed a more non-explosive weapon system no it's base laser still works it's invisibility thing that got broken there he uses the plasma caster again in a moment so a bit awkward yeah it's kinda weird that you know you wounded the enemy that bleeds luminescent blood and you were able to track that like when something is wounded blood comes out of there like that's how cuts work instead of easily killing him because he wants to have a one on one fight with him did you watch the film come on man oh wait he actually says it because he wants to fair fight I'm assuming there's still a problem then but he's fought unfair the whole movie to wipe everyone else out I wouldn't say that I think it's more to do with the fact especially when he takes a close look at Dutch he's fascinated by how this thing managed to do this much damage to him so he wants to prove that he's still better than him I was saying when I was watching it was like a respect thing like you team like a noble adversary I'll take you on I'm not gonna use my fucking OP weapon to knock you out I'll fight you normally and he still beats the shit out of him until he gets the upper hand with the log and you're Dutch besides this is backed up in Predator 2 this is a thing they have respect for their enemies that's a thing Predators do obviously it's ruined in the new Predator film but we don't talk about that the only Predator movies I've seen are this and Alien vs Predator movies you need to see Predator 2 and Predators the remaining ones that people would probably recommend do not see the new one it is so awful I'm probably gonna watch it at some point just for the comedy and honestly he can fuck right the hell off this does mean that the Predator has found a suitable mate that's where this seductive striptease is heading why does some Predator look like he still sees in heat vision and other times it just looks completely red if I didn't know better I think you were just cycling through cool 80s video effect probably because yeah they don't actually have an alien vision piece of technology that they were using I guess they could have used an actual infrared camera my assumption by the way this is just going from what we see in the film is that Predators do see in heat vision and the mask basically like what would you call it focus is it I think that's what I assume because it's really blurry when he has the mask off compared to when he has it on just like glasses that's what I got from it how much the bomb countdown felt like an actual bomb countdown oh yeah you know that the film wants us to believe that Arnie could pick up that it's a bomb and like it's a completely alien piece of technology but it still goes beep especially if you're kamikazeying why would you want that to happen uhhhh like why would you want it to beep at all I don't know why would you want a delay to give time for friendlies to get out of the area potentially it could still be a respect thing again yeah we assume that the reason he nukes himself is to prevent any predator gear from falling into the hands of humans basically because it definitely gives Arnie enough time to escape so we assume that the predator was okay with that happening but he did kind of look like when he was doing it he did kind of make a haha face of I'm gonna get you now with my explosion that's yeah that's to be interpreted I've always looked at it as um you're not getting my shit like you won but you still don't really win because you know how the predator makes trophies of his enemies like you can't make a trophy of me bitch actually I guess that that makes sense and this is the thing for all we know um you know the the beeping like that might have been optional he might be able to instant nuke it he might be able to set it for an hour and he just decided to set it so Arnie could get out of there I don't know I would guess that that's the case and yeah there's a lot of inference to do and that's why predator's fun it's a movie that doesn't answer much of anything it's just like what do you think that this is all about and you're like can you make it make sense because what you can do is uh assume stuff that's contradictive or assume stuff that makes sense what we're displayed really isn't contradictive at all which is just only if you interpret it one specific way but there's a couple of people saying I'm writing the movie for it which is a criticism I have for people approaching the last year I've literally said several times it's inference you can absolutely do that if someone infers like Jay just did it's like why would the thing do that it wouldn't make sense because it's giving people an option it's like it's giving like a warning to your enemies it's like well we can assume that's what it's doing we could also assume it's doing something else and it's like whichever one makes more sense it really depends on the context because it's not a definitive contradiction it's not like the movie is definitively said the predator wants Arnie to escape because he likes him well I mean that wouldn't even be a contradiction even if they did say that what were you saying? I was saying it really depended on the context because in the context of The Last Jedi there are a lot of people that write the movie for it but that's not the same as predator where you have to infer something for example it makes sense that they didn't do the hyperdrive thing up till that point because nobody's tried it it's like wow that's quite the inference you make in there that doesn't even make sense because if you remember Hux immediately reacts as if she's going to do it so it's like clearly people are aware of this this is what I mean you can infer it just depends every time on how much you're actually ignoring parts of the films to sort of try and come up with a conclusion about it but anyway, I forget how he ends these videos it's just with the I want to be the people's governor oh yeah and there's like stingers at the end these are actually jokes so we don't actually need to watch them there will just be clips that are things that he thinks are similar he'll cut clips together to draw parallels between stuff we're still at less than 13 minutes so he's right he did a good job with the title there he named his video correctly and that is something he got right but yeah that's cinema sins for you I'm just reminding myself why I never watched cinema sins I have to deal with this every week well yeah I was going to say this is your whole thing this is what you want to do I'm sort of trying to branch out because it started out as just sort of I want to be able to make something regularly and this is something I can do regularly but now that I'm starting to take YouTube more seriously I'm trying to branch out into other stuff and sort of making this a general criticism of criticism channel which is how I ended up talking about you also we don't need to address that video are you interested in sort of maybe getting to the point one day where you don't do any of that anymore and actually just make your own sort of reviews maybe I like what I wouldn't ever want the channel to I have multiple channels this is by far the most successful that I've got and I could see myself getting to a point in the future where I don't upload regularly to this channel anymore I just sort of uploaded if I felt like it but I I wouldn't really it's not something I see myself wanting to stop anytime soon you must be having fun doing what you're doing right because this is the thing a lot of people might be like how could you we responded to MovieBob the last time we did this and the chat we're getting actively infuriated listening to them and Wolf lost his mind there are certain results you can get from certain content creators I would actually start to find it painful to keep watching CinemaSins videos because how many times did I have to try and clarify what was even being said I don't even understand him after time and this is the thing I think he has a decent voice the format is quite I want to say slick I don't think it's amazingly made it's easy to see it's a format that loads of people have just taken up and started using themselves I think the format is really a good idea I should say that I use it I don't find much substance so I'm just half the time people do questions like why are you even bothering responding to him he's not legitimate as a source of criticism some people do find that he is I'm sure you must have had a moment maybe in your life where people have sent you a CinemaSins video baby said see the movie isn't as good as you thought you'd be like oh I have a lot of a lot of people saying different things to me about CinemaSins and it's just the two main criticisms I get of just for doing what I do are brilliantly contradicting I'll get people saying this is actually what you're doing here is silly because CinemaSins is fine and there's no problem with their content because they make mistakes but everyone makes mistakes and you should just ignore that and let them do what they do because they're fine and the other one is always I don't take them seriously they're not meant to be taken seriously it's what they see themselves in interviews which we already talked about because they literally contradict themselves when they talk about why they do what they do and some interviews they'll say it's just for jokes and satire and none of it's meant to be taken seriously and then others will say we want to point out actual genuine problems and I think they tried to do both in the same video and I think that's why it falls flat we get that impression right he's got a lot of problems that are legit but tiny to the point of just being like I don't even see how this is relevant really then he's got a couple that are like if they were definitively true they represent kind of big problems in how the plot runs or whatever but they're often times ignoring information and he's got like I want to say 60% of the video was jokes they weren't really jokes and so far as they were like made like jokes they were just sort of jokes and so far as he said words that didn't really mean anything and like certain references that just flew over my head because like you know people be like ah whatever that guy's name he's an American football coach and it's like okay what is that I didn't answer this at all see what he didn't do which he does a lot of in fact he does this so much that I've recently banned myself from talking about it as much because a lot of what he does and in my experience he'll generally do this like maybe at least five times in any of his videos is just compare two things and that's the sin actually he did do it and there's quite a lot to do I was gonna say he had a lot of like points out a mundane thing or connection and he's just like that's the sin you're like it was so he does that so much that as me going oh that movie has da da da and that's a sin for some reason and then it just sort of I had to say that so much that I cut it down to this movie that movie and I had to say that so much that I banned myself from saying that phrase now I was gonna say he probably tried to not cover his jokes I imagine too right because that's just wasted airtime almost he's like yeah that was a joke wait because it's not like it's not like the jokes don't it's not like you know the fact that it's a joke means that the words don't matter it's like he still said the thing and the thing is do you mean like if he sort of tells a joke while performing a form of criticism it's like oh I might want to recognize the fact that that's actually criticism so yeah if he'll be like you know it says a joke and then it's like here's why that's it's not stupid though but yeah he's a he's an extremely successful channel so you know more power to him because this has worked I found it fascinating to find out that there are several and I say like there's more than like 10 people who are doing everything wrong with and then video games or movies oh there are so many and they're all they've got an element of success like they're actually it's it's crazy I was like there's a guy with like 200,000 subscribers who's doing the exact same thing as CinemaSins and I was just like wow I do I know you know about this because we talked about him the other day but bullshit literally has a CinemaSins clone channel that he doesn't post to anymore it blows my mind because then you've got the counterculture of channels like yourself where there's people just watching these videos I mean Tang's being we've done it today where you just respond and there's channels that are really successful of that alone as well it's just like CinemaSins has created his own like CinemaSins has created a sub-industry yeah it's crazy to think about that's how popular it is and I suppose that's how popular talking about media is in general like people just really like I mean that would explain me and Wolf's channels as well we both tackle games and films mainly so just the whole like the movie industry is only especially the movie criticism as an industry is just really growing fast you've got so much the concern has become like which other people we should be listening to and there's a lot of talk about that isn't there I mean yeah plus also a big element of politics gets just rammed into it as well because lots of films and you've got I don't want to open the can of worms that is any I don't want everyone I don't really want to address anything political at the moment I mean if I do address political stuff I want to spend a good long time thinking about it because like this isn't just film nitpicks this is shit that actually matters so like when you were talking about politics there I was just sort of like I'm gonna stay quiet for this bit because it's a full on mind field of it is avoiding in my videos as much as possible because I don't know it just feels like it's now novel as an idea to have a channel that doesn't mention politics at all because that's rare yeah I mean if I feel like something is important needs to be mentioned bring it up but I wouldn't dwell on it there's people arguing in the chat about whether or not I've covered games I have covered games as the righteous Dorges the righteous Dorges said Mullen did a fucking 8 part Dark Souls 2 video series what about that is movies oh so this can't not be mentioned I did bring this up on V's stream but I've spoken to V and Sargon literally just because they were like wanna chat and I was like cool and we talked about movies and now people are like well as evil Loch Ness has just said Moeller hasn't got the balls to call him out I literally don't give a shit at what politics people hold when we're talking about fucking films I will talk to H-Bomber Guy about movies I will talk to Sargon about movies those two can have their political fights as long as they want I just want to talk about movies you can keep me out of it I don't give a shit it bugs me because like why why does everything have to be about politics for fuck's sake how many times have you and me talked about politics that's actually a good point you think we would have wouldn't you but no maybe we've made like a reference once or twice but most of the time it's just we're talking about movies and video games lately it's just been like me spamming you with quotes from God of War 4 and I give you updates if we ever see movies we're just like yeah that was shit this is good and if we ever hang out outside the podcast we're usually going to watch a film that's commonly what actually happens the last film we watched was Black Panther it was wonderful yeah because you never pick out good movies aside from Spider-Man you can't say that so many people hate Spider-Man Homecoming what did you think of Spider-Man Homecoming Jay I absolutely loved it yeah I really liked it loads of people hate it one of my favourite MCU films why don't people have against it well the most common criticisms I've found is that it's too dissimilar from the comic which obviously I can't I have no reference for there's a couple of comments about some of the mechanical things like he doesn't care enough about giving away his secret identity because obviously his friend and his auntie find out in the film and he doesn't seem to really care but both of those were accidents so I was just like I don't know none of that stuff is really film running people didn't like the fact that they turned Flash into the like his flash supposed to be like a big buff white guy and he's a pretty sure Flash is like not that at all in the film and he also plays like multiple roles that guy but like these are things where I'm just like yeah but if we start talking about all the good things in Homecoming like these things get flushed out the toilet like easily there's a lot of good shit in it but the fact that it's different from the comics isn't inherently a bad thing well no I don't think so either but I know for a lot of people to not like it The Shining the movie is like so far from the book it's actually kind of insulting in a couple cases but it's still a really good movie even though it's nothing like the book I mean Civil War was my favorite MCU movie and apparently it goes a decent chunk away from the comic like significantly it was like okay that's fine with me you gotta look at it objectively as its own thing as much as an adaptation it's a movie, it's not a comic I can say that The Shining is one of the worst movie adaptations I think well maybe not one of the worst but it is a really bad movie adaptation however it's still a really good movie even though it's nothing like the book comic books and movies are such different forms of media to faithfully adapt to a comic there are so many comics that if you actually faithfully adapted them like panel for panel on a big screen it would be terrible just because it wouldn't go across so well you know what I'm saying you've got how comics are formatted especially when they come out in little issues they're more serialized and they're I'm talking about my ass I've never actually picked up a comic but my impression of them is that they are short and serialized and you can't make that into a movie as well when I get that there are longer ones I would want to hear why the thing because I was talking to Wolf about this like I have criticisms of Game of Thrones that I can relate to the book but I can also make arguments that have no relevance to the book which I think is important as a difference you can talk about how it's a because this is the thing, adaption it's like does that mean they have to be 100% loyal it's like well no usually it means that you're as loyal as you can be while maintaining the fact that you're a completely different medium there are some things you just have to change like Mauler I think we talked about it how Arya and Tywin didn't interact in the book what they did in the show those things are awesome and this is the thing if someone said I don't like it because it's so inaccurate to the comics I'd be like that's fine but it doesn't make it bad though that's not definitive I can understand why you didn't like it say for example you're really attached to something they did in the comic and you're like oh they're adapting it to the movie that's so sweet and then they do like a completely opposite thing I can totally see why you would find it frustrated but it's like for me I'm just like there's not evidence of bad quality that sounds to me like they decided to take certain elements and then make their own story which can go really badly but it can also go really well if you're at the point where you're saying that something's bad because it's different from something else you've got to at least make an attempt to say why the changes they've made have made it objectively worse unless you're just saying I don't like it because that's fine for instance can you argue why the doc tower is bad without referencing the book at all absolutely I mean I've made a lot of references to the books in my video of it because I absolutely loved those books and I hated the movie but it's way more than just a bad adaptation it's like just a horrible horrible film that's kind of how I feel if you ever catch me saying that something is bad because it's too different from the source then try and you can always ask me what about itself and this doesn't apply to stuff like saying the last Jedi is worse when you consider the originals it's like well that's a direct sequel it's not the same as an adaption just to clarify if anyone's making that confused with that but like literally turning a comic into a film I feel like you get a lot of leeway to be able to sort of present the story but obviously there are some things like Lord of the Rings isn't 100% accurate a lot of people get frustrated that Tom Bombadil isn't in it but I don't think that he needed to be in it you know he didn't really add much to the books aside from world building anyway and there was plenty of world building in the films to make up for it so yeah hopefully that sort of puts that to bed I suppose I'm gonna read off this next selection of super chats quick have you guys watched any new Jared videos if not please repent and queue it up they're pretty much saved for wolf's podcast assuming they you know whenever we do them so not recently but I do actually watch some of Jared's videos every once in a while depending on what's on offer I don't know if you do wolf but sometimes I'm like hey I'll check it out if it's like a movie review sometimes I check it out yeah they bring joy to my life to watch a Jared video oh I just I do randomly catch stuff in chat I disagree people who grew up with the characters and spent time with them for years are understandably pissed if the characters fundamentally change no matter the medium that doesn't counter anything I said yeah I mean look people can be pissed that doesn't mean the thing is bad yeah I mean I can't think off the top of my head maybe if I like took a while to really mull it over I could probably think of some people that are some characters from movie adaptations that are completely different from the books but again it really depends on the quality of the films that stand alone because you can still say that adaptation sucks while still being a good movie like I said the shining horrible adaptation pretty much I mean the shining is a pretty actually a pretty good example because I don't remember what the black guy's name is well anyway in the book he actually had a purpose in the movie they just went all over his character is it a bad adaptation if it's a good product at the end? yeah I would say you can be a bad adaptation but still a good movie would the adaptation be good if the product turned out to be good you take a thing you adapt it and the thing is also good I would say it would be a good stand alone but not a good adaptation because to adapt something it goes without saying that people expect it to be like the thing you're adapting because I'm not even trying to point out something I'm curious as to how we would define adaptation yeah well when I say adaptation at least I mean like if it's a bad adaptation in my eyes it means that it didn't follow what it's adapting sort of to stay loyal or to stay loyal enough to get everything right like the it movie I really love the it book and I actually really liked the movie even though it changed a ton of things from the book but it still got the important stuff down being the characters the themes and everything they go through so that would I would say would be maybe not a horrible adaptation but like a meh adaptation but it's still a really good movie sorry I was just going to say quickly the fact that they don't have Tom Bombadil in the Lord of Rings movie would be considered a notch against them in terms of an adaptation then well I come from the kind of unique perspective of I didn't really like Tom Bombadil to begin with but by principle you would still have to say that yeah that fine right like yeah I mean in all fairness though Tom really didn't play much of a role in the books to begin with aside from just it's part of the world building because he was mentioned one time at the very end of the two towers and it was something to the effect of they were in Shelob's cave and Sam was like man I wish Tom was here and at that point I forgot that Tom was part of the book in the first place and I was like who's Tom and then I was like oh that crazy guy in the forest yeah like I'm pretty sure I'm on board with this I just wanted to clarify because I always sort of looked at it as something is to change it from what it was to a new medium and that could mean that you could change a lot of stuff along the way I mean there was a lot of significant changes from Lord of the Rings book to the film but there is still way more intact that I would call it a very good adaptation even despite the things that they changed or took out it's kind of subjective it depends on well it really depends on book to book Lord of the Rings I would call it an excellent adaptation to Shining I would call it a shit adaptation but they're both good films question mark yes yes interesting what's your take Jay so I've just realized I'm completely distracted you're completely distracted I tuned out of it there oh well like I'm just interested on how people take all of this because like I said if you take a book or even a TV show or whatever the other thing it's almost like depending on how much is the same determines how much your adaption is well how much of a good adaption it is but that'll have no effect necessarily on how good of a thing it is in its own medium would that be I agree with that like to to an extent I think that making like some changes that you can justify for the change of the medium means like that doesn't necessarily make it a worse adaptation but if you would say I mean like 50 shades of grey would be a terrible adaptation of the Shining like it's terrible in general so it's about it's a terrible zone but I mean the Shining would be a terrible adaptation of 50 shades of grey so I mean if it's completely different and it's if it's different without really reasons that you can understand I would say or like justifiable reasons I would say for a worse adaptation it's interesting because I just I don't know how everyone generally feels I wonder if this is sort of like an accepted thing or not like say for example something that you can't have in let's say something that was adapted from one medium to the next so like I'm trying to think of like if you adapted a movie to an audio book for whatever reason then there's certain things that can happen or at least I'm trying to think of what could be in a movie that can't possibly be in a book because you could always describe visuals and sound so um what could be in a movie that can't possibly be in a book I can think of things that are in a book that can't be in a movie okay wait go for that like for example uh well reference the Lord of the Rings um in the movie the you know the huge eye on top of Beredor that that's not actually in the book there is a part where uh when uh Frodo looks into Galadriel's mirror he sees a flaming eye but there's not like a literal actual eye on top of the tower in the book they had to adapt what is basically um symbolism and um fuck what's the word I'm looking for metaphor yeah that would work too symbolism metaphor all that you know what's on the tower they just describe it is it or sort of well there is nothing on this tower in the book um they just took a part apart from the book and because Sauron never actually appears physically in the book they had to kind of give him a presence in the movie because it wouldn't make sense otherwise without the uh without the context that the book gives and unless the movie decided to go into just unreasonable amounts of exposition then which would detract from the movie as a whole then they had to make some kind of physical representation of Sauron so they took something in the book and then kind of made it into something different so there is like symbolism metaphors and there's a word that is good in terms of adaption or bad in terms of adaption um well adaptation I'm sure the right word is there taking well I would say it's good because they did take one thing that was in the book and they applied it to something that they needed to do in order to adapt it into a movie to like convert it into movie yeah because the way that they used that Tolkien used Sauron in the book they couldn't do that for the film because it would kind of detract from it would make the film kind of boring because there would be no physical evil presence to really latch onto if they just said oh Sauron is coming and then they never showed anything about it then the movies wouldn't have had the impact that they do but because of the way that the books describe it they get away with it yeah like how you can sort of you could have like a vista in a book or a song in a book and then when you actually see it sang or see the actual thing in a movie you can be disappointed because it wasn't quite what you thought it was even though it could be accurate to what was described in the book if you know what I mean yeah so it's like an accurate adaption in some ways and also in other ways I mean this is the thing right because I'm interested in seeing how the comics were adapted in Marvel if at all but the fact is like obviously I can't even judge it and it's not even it's not really relevant to me as to how good of it how good it is as a movie because obviously it doesn't need to function as anything but a movie but if someone said to me like Civil War for example is an awful adaption because it doesn't have anything from the original comic aside from the fact that it's a Civil War between those two characters I'd just be like okay it's a bad adaption that would be that would be a relevant thing to say you couldn't really say that Civil War was objectively bad as a standalone film because of that but you can say that it is a bad adaptation I don't know because I've never watched it I've never read the comic well that's the thing what I'm trying to say is if someone said it is a bad adaption objectively I'd just be like alright it doesn't bother me because I'm obviously I I'm just judging it as a film not as an adaption um yeah that's I was going to say if I just read out these next super chats I assume that we're pretty much good at that point because I'm surprised we actually got through two videos without spending you know 10 hours that's impressive if you want to see the room to watch Wrinkle in Time 2018 not even exaggerate as we've ever seen I've heard that's a so funny it's but we should do that sometime well for me oh absolutely I'd love to because I genuinely think that you just because it's hilarious but yeah no let's definitely watch it together that's funny bread and unbridled rage that must be referencing for good rags good not might be a useful way to describe adaption perhaps faithful would be more appropriate yeah yeah I guess it depends on your meter for what makes a good or bad adaptation which can be subjective yeah it's a very complicated subject I quite it's quite interesting obviously yeah by the way Jay if you actually had anything you wanted to say on this I don't know if you're still distracted or not but I've uh see I've never read or seen any of the Lord of the Rings so what I know it's the biggest cry it's the biggest part of no culture I still need to get on board with oh my god you got it it okay when you watch the movies only watch the extended cuts I know that I know that um people kind of use the extended cuts it's like a get out of jail free card for shitty movies but the extended cuts were actually like required because they're so unbelievably long like we're talking the whole trilogy is 12 hours Jesus it's amazing it's seriously it is the best well you need to see before you die sort of thing people in the chat calling me a heretic I mean it's it's kind of you don't meet many people who have in fairness we found out recently that rags hadn't seen aliens please don't tell me you haven't seen aliens I love aliens oh thank god I sat through I sat through the second alien versus predator film just because of how much I haven't seen resurrection yet though this this makes more sense because you did tell it wasn't you that said what direction you were more of a fan of alien than predator right that's what you said to me yeah I mean well I'd never seen any of the predator films other than alien versus predator before today it's just it's interesting because like I was a super fan of both so I was like AVP is like a dream come true that I was like well this was and then you watched it I really enjoyed AVP but I wouldn't ever like say that it was a good film the same as like Suicide Squad I loved watching it but it's like a it's like a fan film in a how do I put this it's like it feels like someone playing in their back garden with the two toys like I'm smashing together they're fighting yeah and you got to watch that with like Hollywood level you know prosthetics and graphics and it's like no that was kind of neat but I mean yeah I I would never say AVP is a good film but I could enjoy watching it from for the very superficial elements of just seeing predator and alien smash into each other I guess see the only reason the only real thing that I had that I just like pretty disappointed by with it other than the fact that it's not very good was just how just how shit on the xenomorphs get because obviously I was just there for the xenomorphs it was like hey you know who's he's funny is I feel the exact same way in reverse I hated how much the predators got shot on because one alien kills two predators but like the the predators of the like come out on top he nukes them all with his thing I guess the ones that are like I mean we spoke about this before I would yeah but the predators are technically speaking on top because let's be honest aliens are essentially creatures that are running around killing stuff while predators are actually the predators have a society they're like there are people there are species who do things while aliens run around killing things like I'm not saying they're not intelligent but predators considering both of these these factions I would say predators are typically going to win everyone on one fight out of most of the time especially because they actually have scanners that pick up aliens as well like specifically the thing is what I said to you last time we were saying this is I think it would have been a better way to approach alien versus predator would be if it was the predators first ever encounter with the xenomorphs yeah and I would I would love to see that in a movie but the thing is man like every single new alien or predator film that comes out is just a god damn sack of shit seems to be at this point I enjoyed alien covenant how I don't know I just I liked it I thought it was fun well I mean you said you liked AVP I liked AVP enough to enjoy it do you think covenant is bad and you enjoy it or do you think it's good and you enjoy it I didn't really register enough to really decide how good it was I didn't get an impression it was amazing I thought there was stuff you could actually read into it Patrick Willems loves alien covenant so you're in good company I'm kidding I don't know who that is but I feel like I'm pretty sure I've heard you reference him before I've said you should check out his plot holes video it would be fun for you to respond to that one actually you should just watch her stream of us watching his plot holes video what was I going to say yeah Appa Ben just said in the chat by the way Wolf that he hasn't seen Lord of the Rings either oh god Appa come on you have to see these films you might refer to the biceps insertion which is the space between the elbow and the start of the arch of the bicep I don't think it's that well thought through I was going to say you're giving him a lot of credit there this is sort of a sense left foot media would be an interesting guest cheers I will look into it I've heard of left foot media a couple of times also it sounded like one of you was going to say something then I didn't catch that I'm fairly sure the biception thing was he took two words that were vaguely relevant and put them together and that's how he came up with that I think you're right needs the autism spines that's the reference to the new movie top ten anime alliances cinema sins is really fake to be honest I've chuckled at some of his jokes but taking these videos of serious analysis is mega autism well that's the thing we've covered how a lot of people would be like why are you taking it seriously and it's like well some people do take it seriously they really do like I don't know why you see people who don't fully take it seriously but they still sort of when Jerry doesn't like a film they'll still take that to heart I guess I won't bother with it but so often the reasons he has for disliking a film are superficial and also wrong like you will point out plot holes and claim everything stupid but no it was a common theme in the Predator one everything you said about the girl was wrong because there was some stuff he said that had room for discussion but he just kept even contradicted himself on the girl it was rough you'll see sometimes he'll have criticisms like that and then he'll actually take that into saying sort of and that's why this is actually a bad movie and it's not like he's just approaching everything with the sort of we're just putting out the mistake sometimes he'll actually say no I don't like this movie and sometimes it is stuff like that not actually been thought through we're being asked what we think of cinema ones we've already talked about this some people in chat don't know these things because they just popped in Dusty S said really enjoy CSS here hope to see him more on EFAP well that'll be for the future the problem for EFAP is that every guest we have is like I'll come back and it's like good god we'll never have a guestless episode even though we have to have a guestless episode next week I've had fun with you Jay how have you found it's a very silly podcast isn't it I like the idea that somehow I made a terrible video I mean I don't think it's as bad as you said it was but I can see why you thought it was as bad as you thought it was I can see why you thought it was as bad as you thought it was I've said probably that I'd rather make friends than enemies honestly like I'm so tired of making enemies I've made enemies out of so many people I've never even heard of I'm just like okay can we talk I love the idea that you just saw that and you're like do you want to come on the show this is the thing I hate the idea of not letting the other person have their say about it there've been times we will accidentally have that happen or something or that might happen in the future but genuinely I hate the idea of basically being like no don't give them a platform that's the last thing we need like no no no let's talk about films I like talking about films there are people I wouldn't want to give a platform to oh like like horrible well like personally there are people who just I think don't have the critical thinking I feel like some people might find this controversial but I'm just going to go no bullshit I don't think should have a platform well see okay so well if you know no bullshit is obviously don't you unfortunately if he was like can I come on eFab and talk about films I would be like yeah but I mean and we'll cover what are your videos with you that'll be fun because we'll just be like what the fuck were you talking about this whole time I mean I don't think anyone should not have a platform because I think everyone should be able to say whatever dumb shit they want and expose how much of an idiot they are yeah and this is the thing if we had a choice between no bullshit you or whoever else I'd be like well yeah but no bullshit is pretty much going to be on the bottom of the list every time because like why would why just these never been impressed with his videos I don't know why he would want to come on here anyway like that would be a strange circumstance but I think I understand what you're saying like there's some people who would be like why would I even bother yeah I see like obviously you want him to be able to have a platform you don't want to silence him because the stuff he says is stupid you just want to let people know the stuff he says is stupid yeah yeah and this is the thing imagine we covered a video from his which we actually have on most podcasts I think and then he said like you've blatantly you know misrepresenting me or storming me or whatever and he's like and you won't let me on your podcast because you know that I'll rip you apart also be like that we'd be like okay fine come on you know like the idea that we're being unfair even if he is a piece of shit that sort of thing I wouldn't want to do that because it just I imagine it happening to you is kind of where I'm coming from it's just like yeah that would suck so principally wise we would rather open it up to anybody I'm going to my computer's won't sleep okay I'm back but preferably not like you know accepting absolutely anybody who asks more so it's much more fun to actually have content creators who also critically analyze film that's usually the place we're aiming for but you know Cinema Sins should be forcefully yifed by rags I'm afraid he's gone but he may have been on board with that question for CSS of all the movies Cinema Sins has covered which one do you think is the most egregiously wrong as in the Cinema Sins video but I think I don't know they're all sort of just generally I can't really pick like a top a most wrong video because they've all just sort of got the they've all got their tropes in them and they're all sort of like they will generally have about the same amount of mistakes in it I mean there's not been any individual one that have gone wow this is so below standard if that if that's your question it's just they're all sort of about the same if I was to answer whichever one I watched recently that's the worst one it's always fresh on my mind but I'm assuming you're saying that they sort of he has the exact same approach for pretty much everything so they're all just as bad as each other I mean there'll be ones where if he's doing a movie that there's actually a lot of flaws in it and a lot of plot holes in that it will generally be a better video than one where he has to stretch for everything because whatever he does he's going to try and make the video at least like I think 12 minutes is his standard I've not seen one below 12 minutes in quite a long time so if there's something like Deadpool for example which I mean a lot of the things that are in Deadpool are really cliche but are really cliche rather but a lot of that is on purpose so that they can support the cliches and make jokes about them but then they'll still be like oh this is a cliche or help really overanalyze the matter jokes in that it's just like this kind of film does not lend itself to your format because your format is all about finding logical holes and that and Deadpool doesn't give a shit yes it's definitely complicated to try and do it with Deadpool for Christ's sake this is like half of it is going to be deliberate that the other half might not even be clear I mean it's funny enough attacking Deadpool will be like us attacking Cinema Sins you can't fucking say that because that was a joke although we'd be like Deadpool would be a lot more obvious while Cinema Sins would be like you can't even tell if it's a joke or if it's bad writing or if it's him actually making an issue with the film you can't fucking tell he does all three he makes like genuine mistakes sometimes because we all do random then he will also apparently make mistakes on purpose he said he does that but he will then also put them together with genuine criticisms so it's like you know the mistake the real mistakes are there the genuine like the criticisms are there and it's no distinction between any of them you have to figure that out for yourself why would he admit that he sometimes makes deliberate mistakes is he saying it's supposed to be funny I think it's the point I don't know I've not really seen the whole of the video just I've seen videos about him and I've seen that referenced and I trust the sources strange stuff the person who asked that by the way said I also commend you for coming on so you've been commended you guys are apolitical you guys are apolitical usually besides rags much always throwing in a new atheist jab on Christians every episode I mean that happens but the fact is me wolf and rags are all atheists as far as I know obviously you could argue that's political bringing it in at all but we really do I mean I can think of only two occasions and one of them is this episode yeah it's very rare how bad is the Venomovie I really like all your guys stuff because I was actually gonna go watch it next week but if it's that bad I'm not gonna I'm not going to I like Marvel's franchise I thought it was awful but like entertained by it it was kind of fun there's lots of stuff I enjoyed but overall like in terms of structure it's just a bit of a mess so maybe go to try and find out from other people you trust if you want to see it or not because I didn't hate it I just thought it was kind of bad it's like you know watch adaptation the film they paid Kaufman to adapt the ghost orchid into a film and he turned it into a meditation on the subject of adaptation itself so in that case that would be a bad adaptation but potentially a good film I suppose have you guys played slash read the Metro series Metro 2033 last night Metro 2033 34 35 is pretty interesting oh boy I'm a huge Metro fan boy I've read all I've read Metro 2033 like six times so I I'm like in love with Metro and every well everything that has anything to do with Dmitri Klukski I know nothing about it I'm afraid you miss it out no I've been told this is the thing dude I've got a lot of stuff to catch up on while every day I'm like well time to work on the TFA series it's like why don't you watch or play Metro it's like no you know TFA or we watch terrible movies because that's what we do you know like like we're gonna watch Wrinkle in Time right have you seen Teeth this is my go to terrible movie I've not actually seen it I only know exactly what it is though I saw it and then I was like well that makes me feel bad and then I never watched again it's fully one of my favorite films just because of how bad it is call it be a heretic but he hasn't even seen Lord of the Rings how dare you I'd say that not seeing Lord of the Rings is a bit more sin than not playing Metro um yeah so thank you everyone for your generous donations and I suppose we can stay for a little bit if anyone's got any questions for Jay our guest cinema sin sins well I am personally going to leave because I have to eat and I also really gotta take a piss again so we're probably gonna be about like five minutes or whatever but enjoy your pee yes and cinema sins sins or Jay maybe I should have just called you that instead I'm sorry let's chill are you on yeah I apologize for insulting you in our last EFAP you know what right I would probably have done the same thing in your situation reacting yeah also it was funny it was fucking like I was laughing along and realizing like this is I am being made fun of here but this is funny shit yeah I mean well I mean I like to make fun of people and I know the funny thing is is a the way that I met Mahler is he insulted me in one of his videos and people like told me Mahler's throwing shade at you and I watched the video and got to the part where he talked shit about me and I thought it was hilarious and now we're friends well not to mention by the way that we promote each other in our Black Panther videos but we did it while insulting each other I believe like I said I said something like you know you fucking you make shit videos he's a link and people were like why do you guys hate each other I think you said something to the effect of like oh no no that was your Jurassic World video where you said I know he's the worst thing ever but it's okay we we have a fun little thing people in the comment section like wait so do you guys hate each other or not it's like I am linking his video I hate him yeah people real for a while thought that I hated you too and they were like why are you always so mean to Mahler and I'm like we're friends but yeah I realized that not all people are like me where they'll just like see someone shitting on them and then like laugh it off so I think that is genuinely rare what happened with me and you because most people will like the second they've seen that you've done said something like that they're like well you're definitively my enemy now there's no way out of it yeah so there's no no victory all no earnest vitriol between with what I said about you in your video like even if like even if I literally stood by if I stood by literally everything I'd said in the there's still stuff in it that I stand by but I did rush it and I yeah yeah there was a lot in there that I would change and will change when I redo it um so I can so it can actually be like a decent video but I reckon I forgot what I was saying when I started the sentence I guess you just say goodbye to wolf I think he really wants to pee well yeah it was good meeting you and Mahler I'll see you next week of course sir goodbye see ya bye yeah um I mean we may as well just pretty much finish up there I hope you had fun it's a very silly thing we pulled this together because we were doing it sort of casually anyway and I was just like we could stream it and then we did and now we've got an actual name for it and this is the seventh episode I believe so you know fun stuff and uh the goal is to essentially watch these videos with people while also commenting on them as content creators ourselves which is essentially what you do on your channel right yeah yeah so it works it all works um I was gonna say if you want to I'll link your channel in the in the chat and you can try and pitch to the to the chat why they should subscribe to you don't I've made really bad videos and you should that's not how you do it you should join it sub um if you like wasting your time or um if you don't like good content then go and subscribe to my channel if you if you like good content then go go somewhere else you he responds to cinema sins if you don't like cinema sins you're probably going to find a lot of entertainment on there in terms of just oh my god yep he's wrong about that he's wrong about that and then you're branching out to a lot of other content creators as well so that'll be um plenty for you to for you to work with especially as a as a growing channel uh obviously in the description of this video you can find links to wolf and rags their channels next week on Wednesday we're going to be doing the response to TRO which is probably going to take like seven hours it's going to be ridiculous this video is of course going to be unlisted on my main channel but you can find it on my second channel which is being linked in the channel right now and that's pretty much it hope you guys had fun and thanks of course again jay for coming on and uh had a lot of pleasure excellent um goodbye everyone goodbye