 Welcome, everybody, to another episode of our Friday Ask and Answer with Fundraising Academy. We are so excited that you are here with us today. We want to make sure to express our gratitude to all of our sponsors who've been with us many from the very, very beginning. Boomerang, your part-time controller, Fundraising Academy, non-profit nerd, the American Non-profit Academy, non-profit Atlas, non-profit Thought Leader, and staffing boutique. These are the organizations that are with us day in and day out and allow us to share now more than 500 episodes of the non-profit show. Without them, we would not be here. So thank you, thank you, thank you. If you've missed any of the episodes or maybe you want to share something that you've heard, you can find our robust archives on Roku, YouTube TV, Amazon Fire TV, and Vimeo. We can simply speak into your smartphone and voila, there we will be. And yet it gets better. We are now putting all of our episodes onto a podcast format. We're streaming in more than 20, I think it's over up to 22 platforms now. And again, you can queue us up, subscribe, and then we'll come to you every day, which is really an exciting way. If you'd like to consume your information, perhaps while you're commuting, working out. Doing housework, I don't know, whatever, but get going with us on our podcast. Okay, deep breath. I've set all my housekeeping rules, set the stage. Toni Bell, yay team, welcome back. Thank you so much. Well, you know how much I love being here with you and answering questions from your viewers and subscribers. There's always really provoking questions that lead to great conversation. So yes, thank you for inviting me back. Well, you are great. You know, I think, God, Jared and I say this all the time. If I've had your wisdom 30 years ago, even just a glimmer of it, I could have raised so much more money from my community. I've always raised money. I've always been out as a volunteer, a board leader, but I never had all of this wisdom and this process. That's very simple. It's very natural that Fundraising Academy is really educating fundraisers about. And so it's been remarkable to see how you and your team continue to share this information. And I like to think the next wave of leadership is gonna be so much better than I ever was. So our communities are gonna be better, you know? Yeah, and that's certainly the hope, Julia, through this curriculum is that fundraisers are raising more money to better support the communities that they serve and total transparency. I didn't have this wisdom either until I got introduced to this curriculum. So I'm just one of many that have the opportunity to be great ambassadors and messengers of this great cause-selling curriculum. You know, we've done a lot of different types of programming with you and various members of your team and there's so much more. If you go onto the fundraisingacademy.org website, you'll find tremendous information that's most of it's free. You can share it with your teams. It comes in so many formats. But I would really encourage you to take a look at this. Even seasoned fundraisers, there's something new and something valuable to learn. I really do love it. And we love your partnership with us. We're always so enchanted by the things you say. So are you ready, my friend? Yes, I am. I'm really looking forward to these questions. Okay, Manny from San Diego, California writes, have you ever heard of a board policy that prohibits husbands and wives or family members from serving at the same time? We've had a struggle getting board members and have an opportunity to get the involvement of one of our current board members' husbands to serve. Yeah, well, thank you, Manny. I think that's a great question. And it's interesting. I have a little experience with this, with an organization that I worked with about, gosh, 12 or 13 years ago. But the difference, however, is that with that particular organization, we had a board application for couples to serve on the board together. And together they would equal one vote. And part of the reason that we did that was because for this particular organization, its founder got it off the ground through, like many folks do, their personal network. And there were just a lot of couples that really gravitated towards the mission. And so when we got to the point where we were ready to actually incorporate and populate a board of directors, a lot of the, you know, if we took all of the couples, we would have had, you know, 40 board members. So what we did and also recognizing that a lot of times it's difficult to get board members to meetings. Sometimes it can be difficult to have quorum. So by accepting them as a couple, you almost always had quorum. But again, if they came to a meeting together, they still represented one vote. Okay, now I have never heard of that. Have you, had you, you said before you hadn't heard of it, but have you heard of it since or do you think this is something that could be adopted? Well, I don't know that I've heard of anyone else using that particular model. But to Manny's question, I'm not aware of anything that prohibits, you know, husbands and wives or family members from, you know, from serving on the board. Certainly a lot of grassroots organizations when they start and first incorporate, they will incorporate with family members because they want to incorporate with folks that they know and trust to initially get the organization off the ground. So I don't think it's uncommon that there, you know, that there are family members serving, you know, on the board at the same time. You know, I would think this speaks to your conflict of interest policy and really going to your bylaws to see if that is in there. Because if it hasn't been put in there, it doesn't mean it can't be changed. Right. But you need to take a look at that because I know there are organizations that are really strict about this even to the point where, you know, they're not allowed to have an employee relationship on staff. So you couldn't be like the parent or sibling or spouse or somebody that works at the organization. I mean, you know, I just think you have to research it from that perspective. And then as a team, Manny, figure out what you're going to want. But pardon me, filling boards. This is a, I don't know about you, Tony, but I'm getting a lot more questions and I'm hearing a lot more about this. Like, hey, we're struggling. We're struggling to get people to volunteer to fill these positions. Well, and the board experience, like many experiences right now in this landscape is very different. So, you know, so it's harder. You know, it's a little bit harder to prospect. We all know that even for donors, it's a little bit harder to prospect, you know, and this, you know, in this particular landscape. So I can understand why, you know, recruiting and retaining board members right now can be a challenge. But you brought up the perfect point there, Julia. And that is, you know, how does your bylaws, how do they or do they not support this? And just making sure that, as you said, in your code of ethics and within your bylaws, it's just clearly defined how that structure works. And again, I think, you know, you can make these changes. You can modify these documents, but you got to modify the documents. You can't just say, oh yeah, this sounds like a good idea. I mean, you kind of got to take those steps, right? For sure, absolutely, we absolutely have to do that. Well, Manny, we probably gave you a lot more to think about than you wanted with this question. I think he was probably hoping, is this a yes or no? No, not really. Okay, Rachel from Lexington, Kentucky writes, we have a fairly large community room, event space in our building. Recently, someone approached us about running some classes in the space. They would rent from us and it could bring in a small bit of revenue. Any thoughts or things that we should look for before we make a commitment? Well, one, Rachel, congratulations on thinking about, creative ways to diversify your funding streams, right? And if you have the luxury, and I say luxury, because not all organizations have the luxury of being in a brick and mortar space and certainly not a brick and mortar that would afford them a large community room, I think it's really smart to look at how you might be able to get some financial benefit from that space. I am not a leasing agent or a leasing attorney, right, but there are a lot of things that immediately come to mind when you start thinking about going down this road. Because in a lot of cases, you're going to be leasing to individuals that you don't really know. So, right off the, you need a leasing agreement, some type of rental agreement. Do you have the appropriate liability insurance to host events? What does the food and beverage kind of contract or restrictions look like? How does it impact or not the way in which your organization files its annual taxes? So, that might be the first place that you wanna look at is talking to your accountant around how does this type of revenue affect the way in which we submit our taxes? So there's a lot of things into it and then making sure you have the resources and the tools necessary to effectively reserve the space and manage the reservation process. But, so I think if you think about all of those things and what the potential earnings might be, compared to what you're gonna need to invest in upfront in order to make it sustainable and to help you grow it, then again, I think it's a really, really smart opportunity and something really worth investigating and doing your need discovery with. But I really support it if you have the space in your facility to do it. You know, I love all these points and you're right. I mean, because the cost of doing these things, it's not just a benevolence issue, it really has hard costs. And I also think there's something magical about getting new faces and new people to your campus or to your site. You never know. I think how hard it is in our lives to get people that we think are interested in us to come to our campuses and our offices, right? Well, yes, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, no, but I'm just thinking. It's like, holy moly, maybe this is something that one in a hundred people, I don't know. But I mean, think about it, that you could introduce your work to. Well, I love that you brought that up. I have the pleasure of having office space within an organization here in Broward County called Artserve, which is an arts incubator. And it's a really large facility and they do a lot of rentals. So of course, one of the things that they do when they rent the space is they welcome everyone. So pretty much every event, especially some of the smaller convenings, the CEO or the development officer or someone from the organization before the workshop or whatever it is starts, they will come in, welcome everyone, let them know where the restrooms are, any other kind of facility protocols and then a quick little elevator speech about the organization and what it does. Okay, yay team, now that to me, that's the gem of all those things that you said because that makes for real connections. And if nothing else, maybe even additional leasing opportunities, right? Absolutely, without a doubt. I mean, because these people that are gonna be coming to something like this, most likely would be those people involved in other community events where they'd be like, where do we meet? Now that we're kind of starting to come back out. Super cool. Well, Rachel, you heard from the master. I think these are some really cool ideas. Shonda from Cincinnati, Ohio writes, Tony, have you ever heard of development teams holding joint session trainings or meetings? We are thinking about bringing in a consultant who would be great, but they are expensive. We're wondering if we should join up with another nonprofit and share the fee, which would make it easier on both of us. So we're getting some really great questions today. We are, we are. We're getting some really, really good, thoughtful, creative kind of, you know, just creative questions. So Shonda, have I heard of this specifically? No, do I support it? Absolutely. You do. I do support it. I think, well, so when we think about the other ways in which development teams come together in training, we would think about AFP workshops or our fundraising academy cohort, which is comprised of representatives from development offices across the country. So I don't, you know, so I definitely don't think there's anything to worry about or, you know, to be concerned about and collaborating with other development teams in your area to share the cost, to have some type of professional developments. I absolutely support it and think it's a super idea, especially recognizing, you know, the how little money is usually allocated in it, you know, in an annual budget for any kind of training. So if you can share the expense and have the shared experience, which I think is going to just increase the overall ROI experience, right? You know, the overall experience for everyone by having more folks with different opinions and varying ways in which they look at the work that they do. So yeah, I think it's a super idea. Now, let me ask you this, Tony, would you try and get somebody with the same mission or similar mission or would you specifically look for somebody with a completely different mission? So for example, a cultural group and a pet rescue group, or would you try and get together? Yeah, no, I think that that's really smart, Julia. And I think it's great that you brought that up. Yes, I would absolutely look for an organization with a completely mission, you know, a separate mission from not even closely related. Because again, when you have those conversations with folks that don't live in your space, it's remarkable the things that you'll hear because they're not living in with the same kind of sense of confinement. And I'm not sure if I'm saying that, you know, the way that I really want to communicate it, but there's a lot of freedom in having conversations with folks outside of your space. They see things a little differently. And I immediately think when the example that you gave an arts organization and a pet rescue, well, there are lots of ways that those two organizations can collaborate. Yeah. Lots of ways that they can find to collaborate. And probably find lots of commonalities amongst the, you know, some of the donors that they have and some of the donor personas that they go after. There's probably lots of similarities. Interesting. Okay. So then let me dig down a little deeper. And I know you travel throughout, you know, the country, you came to my state not too long ago to deliver an address in another part of the state. But, you know, when you look at something like this, would you recommend to Shonda to, she uses the word joint training, would you recommend that maybe she goes out and she gets a couple or several different groups? Or do you think it's smaller? Do you think it's better to have a smaller, like, two kind of group thing? Yes. I mean, that's a good question. I think my answer to that would be based on the level in which the Shonda, for example, if Shonda is going to be the leader of this initiative, the amount of time in which Shonda wants to invest in this, right? So, you know, one organization, you know, collaborating versus five collaborating, five might get a little messier. And I just say that in terms of logistics and payments and invitations and all of that. I mean, there's certainly a lot of value in the conversations that would take place. And again, all of those multiple voices, but just the logistics. So my recommendation would be test the waters with just one organization initially. And then see how that goes. Shonda needs to know Rachel from Lexington because Rachel's got the community room, right? The question before was about having a community room. But yeah, I think you're right. I like what you're saying about, you know, trying it out, seeing how it works, you know, you and I working with public speaking, it's quite a bit different when you do a seminar kind of style work versus a ballroom of people. Right. You know, it changes. Right. Yeah. And, you know, and there's lots of creative ways for Shonda to think about how to introduce this and implement it. So if, for example, if there's concern about making that big investment in, you know, a consultant, then perhaps they lean into some of the recorded episodes of the nonprofit show or some of the webinars pre-recorded on the fundraising academy website. And maybe they test the waters by everyone watches a nonprofit show or a webinar on a particular topic and then come together either in a room together or virtually and have a conversation around what they saw and what were their takeaways and, you know, and kind of see what the synergy is like between the two organizations in that kind of professional learning environment before you make the larger investment and take the deeper dive. Right. I love that. I think that's really smart. You know, but I think the starting point for me was you embracing this concept and saying, yeah, put it together. And then to your point, try it out before you really make a big gathering because yeah, that's cool. Well, I hope that, yeah. Yeah, no, I just, you know, collaboration and this is just a collaboration collective impact kind of, you know, opportunity which I always support completely. Okay, let's go to Francis and Cordelaine, Idaho. What is the average number of members for a nonprofit board to have? I'm tasked with looking at this and I have no idea where to begin. So I, you know, it's a great question. The solid answer is 15. So 15 is kind of the average number of board members, 13 to 15 for organizations. I think, you know, first you need to take a look at what are your expectations of the board? How are they meant to serve the organization? And that will help you, I think, better understand the number of board members, you know, that you need and the types of board members. But the simple answer is that 15 is kind of the average. When I was consulting with organizations, I would always say like nine to 13 was, you know, was kind of the sweet spot for that. But really Francis, you know, give and not that you haven't, I'm sure that you have but give a lot of thought to, what are your expectations of the board? How are, you know, what is the intent of their service to the organization? And that I think will help you determine what is the right number. Right, you know, that's hard too because Coeur d'Alene is not a big community. So you're probably looking at like regional, you know, board members or folks that don't necessarily live there or can you manage that? Can you manage people that are coming from the region? And, you know, when you look at communities like this, especially in the West where we get so spread out, you could easily be a one to two to three hour drive to get to the meeting. So, you know, if you're physically wanting them there versus yeah, that's a lot to think about. And I appreciate you giving us a number. Obviously the number should be odd, correct? Correct, yes. The number should be odd. And something else came to mind too. And, you know, when we talk about the average number of board members, I mean, I'm making the assumption that Francis is with a 501C3. But Francis may be with a 501C6, a membership organization where typically they will have boards up to 26 to 35 individuals because membership is such a critical part of their organizational sustainability and growth that they want a large, you know, a larger board, you know, like a Chamber of Commerce, for example, wants a larger board with representatives of all of the different industries and markets. So again, you know, my answer just kind of naturally came from the lens of a 501C3, but it may be a C6. Yeah. You know, and then the answer is a little bit different. Yeah, very smart. I appreciate you tagging us to that. Okay, now you know, Tony, how I love my name withheld questions. Okay, name withheld Salt Lake City, Utah. My current nonprofit has never used business cards and I think it is an important tool. When I asked for them, there was a bit of a pushback. What should I do? I could get them myself, but I don't want to cause a ruckus. Okay, ruckus. Well, thank you for this question. And it's, you know, so my first reaction would be that in this particular landscape where so much of what we're doing seems to be remote, I could see and understand why an organization might give some pushback for that type of investment, right, if, you know, you're counting every penny, every dollar counts, and so, you know, I might understand that, but, you know, but name withheld is saying has never used business cards. So that kind of sets a different kind of story and makes me look at this a little differently. It's my opinion that at a minimum kind of marketing 101 that an organization should have letterhead, envelopes, and business cards. Yeah, yeah. That's just, and, you know, and name withheld, if you need kind of proof or documentation, I always turn to Google and I'm sure that there's something on Google and I know that that's kind of a funny way to answer this, but if you're looking for like, you know, some type of case statement or some supporting documentation, I'm sure that there's something there, but I have always, I would always support the notion that at a minimum, your organization should have branded letterhead, branded envelopes, and branded business cards. Yeah, I agree, and I think that, you know, I don't know what this person is doing, but especially if they're in development, you know, handwritten notes and things that go out, those business cards need to be put into those pieces going out because you're right, it's a marketing tool, you know, it's a communication tool undoubtedly, but certainly a marketing tool. So yeah, I would say that kind of makes me think they're not making investments where they need to. And you bring up an interesting point, Julie, but I think regardless of your role within an organization, you should have a business card. Okay, yeah, yeah. I really do, I think, you know, it's just, it's that value of being part of the organization, it's, and again, as everyone serves as brand ambassadors for the organization. Right, right, it's important. Well, you have been, you know, you always make me think, you always give us new ideas, we really, really, really love it when we can get you away from your busy, busy, busy schedule. I know that you move throughout this nation dealing with a lot of different people, Fundraising Academy being a part of National University, you have a lot of responsibility and you bring to us a tremendous amount of knowledge, but you are doing a lot of big, big thinking things. So I appreciate that you like pull it down a little bit for us and bring us your wisdom. Before we let you go, do you have anything that's like really fun and exciting that's going on forward, you know, that you can share with us? I'm kind of, you know, I'm hitting, you know, the button hit, I mean, this isn't anything I asked you prior. No, no, all good. So for anyone that's, you know, that's joining us, that is going to be at AFP icon, we are not exhibiting a booth this year, but we have a couple of leadership tracks and workshops that'll be facilitated, you know, I'll be there, our director of the Fundraising Academy, Pearl will be there. So please, we'd love to meet folks and get together for a coffee. We are right now launching our online Fundraising Academy portal. So really excited if you go to Fundraising, if you go to the website, fundraising-academy.org, you'll find links to the live portal. So we're really excited about all of the professional development that's available there for folks. So thank you for the opportunity to share all of that. But yeah, it's an exciting time for the Fundraising Academy. Well, we need you. We need you in our sector and in our corner. I don't care how seasoned of a fundraiser you are or how confident. There's so much that you share with us. It's just remarkable. And I always love going on there and seeing what you've got. So Tony, thank you and thank you to your team. I'll shout out publicly, you know, they are lovely people to work with. We work with them more than we work with you and they are fabulous. I mean, from all angles. So I just wanna kind of give you a shout out. Again, we wanna thank all of our presenting sponsors without them, we would not be here. Umarang, your part-time controller, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, Fundraising Academy, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader and the Nonprofit Atlas. Hey, Tony, I hope you get to have a restful weekend. You as well. Always a pleasure to see you and participate in these conversations. It's such an honor. Well, you are my hero and the hero of many other people. I'll say this before we sign off. I was at an event several weeks ago and somebody quoted you from having watched you on the Nonprofit Show and they're like, well, you know, Tony Biel says, Tony Bell, excuse me, Tony Bell says. And I was like, holy moly, that was pretty cool. Well, that's pretty humbling and thank you for sharing that. It was fun. Hey everybody, we like to end every episode and as we're ending our week, we want to remind everyone and ourselves, stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you next time, everyone.