 Welcome back, it's time to talk and of course we have a first major conversation up next right here on the Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. The Independent National Electrical Commission, the EPICS body for election conduct trial in the country has been settled with the responsibility of overseeing the electioneering process while ensuring credibility. However, despite efforts of the commission to keep the electoral process as transparent and as credible as possible, there have been widespread reports of electoral malpractice aided by sometimes violence. Therefore, INEC had over the years sought for the deployment of technological innovations to improve the credibility and safety of electoral process in Nigeria. And in 2015, the commission had deployed the use of smart card readers, if you remember, for the conduct of the elections with forming objectives to verify the permanent voter cards. The PVC is presented by voters at the polling units and to ensure that they are genuine. INEC issued cards and not-cloned cards like some would used to do in the past. Now in recent state elections, INEC has deployed a bimodal voter accreditation system which it says it will use for the general elections in 2023. It's been relatively successful the recent state elections so far. What exactly is a Biva, a bimodal voter accreditation system, and will it bring about credible elections in Nigeria? Glad to see you have joining us again right here on the breakfast and plus in Biafrica, senior professor of political science at the Bayero University in Kano, Professor Sani Fagei. Prof, good morning to you. Thank you very much for your time. Good morning and thank you. All right. This Biva, say it's a new innovation compared to the smart card readers that we saw in 2015. I'm sure you remember the little drama that transpired when the former president, the then president, Dr. Goodock Jonathan, went to his polling booth and could not vote because the smart card couldn't recognize him. Looking at this Biva, you think it's something that is a welcome development for INEC and you expect that it will be an improvement on the smart card readers from what you've observed so far? Yes, I think it is an improvement in the terms that it will take care of the problems that we used to have with the smart card. What it does is that there are two processes who, you know, verifying the potential voter. One is the stamp print, which when we use it before light card example you gave about the former president, Goodlock, it may fail and then the other alternative is to use facial recognition of the voter. So I think a combination of that will reduce that problem and challenges and it will also make things easier and faster. But this does not mean it is without this problem, but at least I think for now that will be a serious improvement or great improvement in the process of our elections. We've had state elections in recent times, I mean ocean state elections just held where the opposition candidate, a dedicated one, you had the elections in Anambra state, you've had elections in Akiti state as well, you've had some senatorial by elections held in some parts of the country. From what you've seen, are you confident that, you know, the winner will have it all at the end of the day, that the true winner will emerge as compared to the times past when we're seeing people complain about, you know, electoral practices and of course people coming out and saying, you know, the winner didn't emerge and they were cheated. I mean, even in the same ocean state, the previous elections that brought this government in, the Jerry Hale view by those in ocean state is that he didn't win that election. Yes, winners will emerge, but cheating will not be eliminated a hundred percent. What the process is likely to remove is the issue of multiple voters, whereby you have candidates are given a number of voters card and they go and, you know, cast it. That one I'm sure through this by model, it will be eliminated. But other process, other malpractices will be, you know, perfected by the desperate candidate. For example, this process may not eliminate the issue of voter buying, which was what happened like in equity, like what happened in the ocean and in other places. As a matter of fact, it is likely going to read the issue of voter buying higher because those desperate politicians who knew very well that they cannot buy, I mean, they cannot use multiple voting, they may decide to read the stack in terms of buying credible candidates, I mean, potential candidates. So we'll see a trace of who will outbuy the other in the process. So I'm not condemning it, but what I'm saying is that unless we take standard measures on, you know, electoral malpractice, no matter the system that we involve or evolve is we are likely going to see new forms of malpractice. For example, another easy thing that they can do is to intimidate the opposition where a strong candidate knows that this section or this particular group are going to vote for another party. They will use that to intimidate so I think unless we back this by model process with strong electoral laws which are there, which we have to impose, then it will work very well. Interesting point you raised about new methods being that will be adopted by the politicians, like you said, desperate politicians to ensure that they can find their way to victory and one he talked about voter by the other one he talked about voter intimidation. So this is to say if I read if I'm getting correctly that they can look at the areas where they feel they don't have a lot of supporters and they win the elections and then they go there and try to bribe the electorate and pay them to vote for them. That's the first one. Second one is to go and just scuttle elections in areas where they feel they're losing so that those who are not their supporters will run away and then their own supporters can vote. How can the problem be tackled? This issue because it talked about having strict rules and strict laws to nip this in the bud apart from the beavers. You've also said that the beavers would end multiple voting but it won't stop underhand tactics. So let's look at voter by. We've seen the videos, you know, user-generated content in Oshun state, we saw some in Anambra state. What can be done to stop voter by in Nigeria or vote by in Nigeria? A lot of things have to be done. First and foremost we have to educate the electorate on their right and the consequences and implication of failing their vote. They have to buy that one because no matter what you do, if the people are so desperate and they think all that they will get from the system is the stupid that will be given to them by the politician, they will go ahead and do it. So that is one thing. The second thing is we have to look at other climes where elections are not due for their efforts. And what makes it so is that we demonetize, you know, politics because we make it in such a way that whoever wins will have, you know, like a booty. Everything, able resources of the policy will be at his fund disposal. So we have to have that one. And thirdly, which is most important, is that we have to back all these laws by action. Sometimes once things are back, like that, the law tends to stop at, you know, the people in the box, there is no attempt to punish those who are behind the malpractice. In other words, when you see somebody trying to buy an agent trying to buy a boat or a boater, that agent is not doing for himself or herself. There is somebody who is financing him for that. So unless we punish the ones behind it and make it a rule of law, that is why the system, that is when the system will work. Interesting. What about voter intimidation? How can this be tackled? You know, looking at the security, looking at maybe more laws, stronger laws coming to place, or probably high-necked also doing something to ensure that we have few incidents of violence and voter intimidation. You see, sometimes this voter intimidation takes place with the connivers of the security agencies in the spot. Some people are bought and they turn their head, you know, the other direction. And sometimes the security agencies feel like they are working for the government of the day. So they will now support the candidate of the ruling party and allow all these processes to take place. So I think the major thing is that we have to emphasize this issue of fairness and of the laws. Unless we impose the laws, you know, no matter who is involved, that is when we can do it. Take for example what happened even in the process of voter registration, that has just been concluded. Reports have been that in Lagos, some areas where people knew that they are likely going to vote for another party were intimidated, they were denied, they were scared to come and out to register. So you see, unless you have, you know, an independent security agency, I'm not saying new, but you have to educate the security agencies to know that they are not subject only to the government of the day or the stronger parties, but they are Nigerian security agencies. And then we also emphasize the fact that whoever is involved in that term will be dealt according to the law. I mean, we'll be dealt with according to the laws of the land. And at the same time, we also deal with the sadds and those behind them. So unless we have that rule of law, we may invent so many things and the politicians could easily sit down and get a look at how they will be in the system. All right, Inaq has advocated, and we had some time ago, the national chairman, information and voter education right here on the breakfast. He said that Inaq is advocating for a separate commission or body to face electoral offenses, that Inaq is saddled with so much that they can't face that, you know, that they have a legal department, but it's a lot to look at, that it takes a lot of their resources and their time. Do you support such a view? Do you think that if this is implemented like Inaq is asking for a separate body called electoral offenses commission, for instance, to squarely deal with electoral offenses that will give Inaq the freedom to focus on organizing elections, and then this commission will be able to tackle and address the issue of electoral offenses squarely, thereby reducing it? Yes, in support of that. In fact, you see, Inaq's hands are tight. It's just literally like somebody you tie his hand backwards and also his foot and push him into the river and say, let him swim. That is what is opponent to Inaq. Inaq has come up with so many things, but he doesn't have the power and whether we sell to punish electoral offenses or let's say, even investigate and then take appropriate measures. He doesn't have it. So the best thing is, we should have an independent body that will do these issues. And maybe if we are talking of costs, we can have it on a basis like when there is election, you have an electoral court, if you can call it, which will now dispense with issues like that. And after the exercise, we have so many credible judges, which we can bring into lawyers, which we can bring into the process. So I think if we are to allow it to be a permanent thing like what is the usual practice in Nigeria, we are going to create unnecessary bureaucrats, which will consume a lot of money, which will now deviate from the fact that elections are only means to good governance, not an end to themselves. So if we have it on permanent basis, that is what is going to happen. And secondly, if we have it on permanent basis, we are going to raise the issue of corruption because the politicians who know who is who in the electoral court and before the elections or after the election or during the election, they will do all their best to buy those ones. But so if it is unknown, it is something that, let's say, will allow it within the judiciary and that the office is there, it will be manned by people, qualified ones, during the elections. All right. The Nigerian federal government under the then-president Umar Moussai Erdoa in 2007 constituted an electoral reform committee spearheaded by the former chief justice of Nigeria, Mohamed Owais, called the West Panel of the West Committee, which was composed of highly intellectual and erudite brains and individuals from the academic civil society organizations, professional groups, and public service, you know, to come out reforms on Nigeria's electoral for elections in the country. And this report, at a report of the committee, the West Committee, has not been implemented. It recommended, Prof, among other things, the constitutional amendments to insulate INEC from political influences of the executive arm of government in terms of its composition and funding. Talked about the functions of the police. You have pointed out that the police and the security agencies are part of the problem, as far as voter intimidation is concerned. It talked about the function of the police on election duty instead of that the functions of the police in the police service commission guidelines on conduct of officers should be incorporated into the police act. It's quite comprehensive. These are just summaries. It also talked about election petitions and all that. Looking at such a committee report, even talking about increasing the number of tribunals, you know, in the country, do you think that this report, the report by the West Committee, if it had been fully implemented, would have made us better off as far as credible elections in the country are concerned? Yes, I agree with that. Because that is what I'm trying to say, that what you need is the laws that are there. Already, you see one of our major problems in Nigeria is that we tend to set committees. And at the end of it, we make it just a window dressing. They will do a fine job like what the West Committee did. And we just keep it aside. We don't try to implement the committees. And next time, you see that they will rush and come and set up another new committee. And we should not do anything better than what the West Committee did. So had it been President Eradua was alive to see the implementation of that report, I'm sure we could have been far better off ahead than where we are now in terms of election management. So that will have been a very good thing to do. And from the beginning, even what said, the standard was when Eradua admitted that he was elected with electoral problems. And so he admitted that one. And he set up a very powerful committee, which did a beautiful job. But now it is their line on the shelf. So I think, yes, I agree that had it been that West Committee has been implemented, all these issues that we are discussing now will have been a history of the past. Interesting indeed. It won't wonder why such reports are left on the shelf. Like you said, to gather dust in the government house as a Rockefeller. Only time will tell if it will be implemented. But Professor Sanifagi, thank you very much for your time. I think you've said it on summary that the BVAS alone will not bring about credible elections, the other things that have to be looked at. We appreciate your time. Thank you very much. All right. Professor Sanifagi is a senior lecturer in political science at the Osmond University, senior professor rather than political science at the Osmond University. It's still the breakfast. We'll be right back when we return. We look at an incident, unprofessional conduct by some police officers and the Osho State Commissioner of Police has suspended the tactical squad. As a result of that, we'll be right back after this break.