 Alright, thanks for staying with us now. The rise of digital technology has made it easier for cyber criminals to carry out their activities and Nigeria has not been immune to this trend. One of the most common forms of cyber fraud in Nigeria is email fishing scams. These scams typically involve sending fraudulent emails that appear to come from trusted sources such as banks or government agencies and these emails usually contain links to fake sites websites that look legit but are designed to steal personal information such as username, passwords and credit card details. One thing is for certain for those who fall victim. It is never a good experience. Cyber fraud is a significant issue in Nigeria with the country being one of the top sources of cyber crime in the world especially in a time of fast-growing technological advancement and digital society. So today we're asking how can we start to prevent and protect ourselves from falling victims to cyber fraud? Now, please let's hear what you have to say. Remember you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to do it 1-803-4663 So I'll bring our guest in a second or two. What do you do in terms of protection from cyber fraud? Yeah, so first things first, I know this past week, let me give you an example with my office We've had a lot of spam. I don't know what happened, but we've been getting and these emails coming like And because of kind of business that we run, we expect clients to reach out. So the emails literally come like it's a client that's trying to reach out to us with very interesting headings and then open it and we have Cyber security systems anyway that would detect if the whatever site it is that trying to link you to is dangerous So everybody laughed out of literally buzzing every second. I'm like, what is happening? So From Monday, this thing started on Monday, it started from my department and then we noticed in the project department and then the HR And we're like, what's going on? So I think the IT team in my office now are going to have a meeting this weekend and come back to us on Monday We're having a training on Cyber security on Monday for us to know How to mitigate this but then I think that It has to do it has a lot to do with I'll say regulation. I'll say education technology advancements as well I think that the three things that I think people need to you know, put together in order for us to be able to prevent Freud yeah, because this fraud issue is going to be something that we're going to be having conversations around it, you know periodically Thankfully we have someone that is you know and going to be our in-house Cyber if they cut if they chop my money Mustafa, I'm coming for you So Mustafa is super devolize your fraud risk consultant and a systems thinker with experience in business consulting fraud risk management and advisory He's a polymath and a fellow math Passionate about research and risk management with a master's degree in forensic accounting He's also a CPA fellow chatted and certified accountant certified internet auditor and fraud examiner Hi, Mustafa, and he's joining us live from Canada, Toronto to be precise Now Mustafa, so I've said this thing that if by chance I Wake up one morning and my account is empty. I am coming to you So, I mean we've been having a lot of issues around Cyber security especially here in Nigeria and I'll say why I say so because now I mean if you use certain bank apps you would notice that a lot of banks have been having a lot of issues with I mean one of the banks that I have the app was not just working It was asking me to reload details would send me a code for three days. I couldn't go into my bank I was literally scared and yesterday I was expecting a payment from a client and the client said that he couldn't do the transfer because the same bank You know that is that he's even scared. I hope his money safe I said, okay, even I too was scared that my I thought my money was gone But I went to the bank and there's the money is there and all of that But when I feel like strongly that this is strongly tied to a lot of brain drain that is happening in Is our in our tech space, right? So, I mean if you really want to speak holistically like assessing our risk You know to fraudulent activities, you know right now What do you think our risk exposure rather is right now because again? We really don't have so much expertise when it comes to protecting, you know ourselves, you know, especially in the digital space Thank you very much for having me and thank you very much for the introduction Basically, you're correct The cyber space for a past couple of years we've had where Nigeria and Nigerians within Nigeria and outside Nigeria are interacting with the digital world where everything takes place on the Internet so when we say cyber it's a Synonym is another word for using the Internet itself everything that occurs on the Internet so what we have to do in the Digital space now is a lot of us are mobile phones. We have devices. We have gadgets that can actually go into the Internet and conduct transactions Send emails exchange information basically and what I was doing is we are having Interactions that should have taken place physically Taking place on digital space So when you say cyber food is basically the same for that actually occurs within you and I if we know each other we know each other physically taking place on a digital space and what has happened is What's Traditionally or called within individuals where there was an act of deception is also taking place online So it's just the the platform is different, but the methods remain the same So everyone is trying to gain advantage of your information Everyone is trying to take on do you advantage basically based on what they know and what I don't know So sometimes they keep trying like you've mentioned earlier you get some emails you get some text messages You get that what does what we probably call attacks and what is expected basically is Wherever your data your information is told there should be some framework or architecture for The information to be secured to be guarded and to be protected now What's usually causes what I say some concern is the fact that When maybe let's say your money is missing or maybe there is a transaction that is hooked some way and stuff like that We most times and this is actually correct. We tend to blame the institution that owns the data or that owns the let's say Application of the portal or internet or stuff like that However, in as much as the responsibility has to do with the provider the service provider or infrastructure The users themselves. They actually audits upon themselves to Educate themselves on how to use these devices so the first form of protection actually comes with individuals using this and I don't want to sound very technical. I would assume there were these when we never used to have Any of these devices and people used to write some checkbooks Which is really reducing about that was the very most common ways of Let's say we dream on your transferring money. There was the food there Now we have where it's going through the internet and you are transferring money on this to the network And there's some infrastructure issues or maybe there's some denial of service and stuff like that And we have somehow blaming what I said the system I'm not going to give the system a passport, but I would say they've also tried their best based on if look at the complex nature of the country so the population and The environment external environment itself. It's kind of contributes to why people do what they do So Ford is something that is very global Is universal it takes place everywhere. I will tell you even as much as you mentioned something that you said Oh, I'm Nigeria's above incidences. I can also safely tell you that is not just Nigeria. It's everywhere I will one of the soft currencies that makes society's function is actually trust So if you go to the other spaces or you go to different countries It's not like they don't have people who try to steal or try to take advantage of your information But what they do is like there's a there's this social currency being between everyone and it's just the fact that Everything we do is based on trust and whenever someone comes to try to break down trust There is a punishment for each one of this for Nigeria We actually have lost and I think I listen to lawyers to those are usually studies It's not like major doesn't have a lot of laws. I think one of the things there is that Implementation is really a major problem. So for the cyber space. We have a cyber security law when the president I'm recently the new president actually that one of these The most assigned and the bills assigned was the data protection view and that basically gives like provisions about protecting your Data and companies that actually managing them. So we actually have those cyber bullying cybers talking Child pornography and different materials that you see you see you see there the crime being committed on the internet and with institutions, but I think where the Licy the cap is is the fact that they are the Control measures are not being implemented. So that's where I can agree with you to say that I'm not gonna Really don't say all the country. So yes, there's a there's a factor of less in the brain drain Contributions of these and that's bills on the institution to have a security framework that is well funded and Is just a secure enough for it to protect the customers of data and their transactions However, when I also point out the fact that the number of transactions we have Population and our interaction is Yeah, I also want to give credit to the fact that it's actually not easy managing the numerous kind of Dynamics we have in Nigeria. So that being said, I would just say the connection between The individuals themselves the institutions and the law itself or the agencies that means protects you is actually what makes up For the cyber security framework, I'm not gonna speak to much grammar about the Internet of Things all of this IT times But I would say be behind any of these Devices that you mentioned it on any of these both words you're getting They are human beings like human beings are actually the ones behind all of this So we have to understand the way human beings function and that's the major part about for itself the psychology of thought because That's that that's that's the reason why you have certain was the motivations behind certain incidences of quiet Hmm Okay, thank you You said we talked about funds and how cyber security can be pretty expensive and all of that So now let me now bring it down to small businesses in Nigeria, right? So we know that sub-securities can be expensive for small businesses. So are there any? Cost-effective strategies that can actually help to strengthen the postal cybersecurity for small businesses Okay, so I'll say the first one like I said again that breaking this down and so Looking at the way this will actually occur off the digital space and the way Chances on the cyber space. So it's for small businesses to first understand like, okay What's the interaction between yourself as a business products or service provider and your customers or wherever you're working with? So that would be the institutions and regulators or other competitors or clients Then you have to say we drop a framework and see it. Okay. What's at the Caps, what are the okay? What are the information that we actually require from each of these? Very good. So each of these bodies then see how does it translate itself to the cyber or itself? So for instance, someone who has a shop in you do multiple instance and what she does or what he does is to like What's called record Transactions that have come in from each customer very simple to make a risk. There is yes Typically, you have a book where you record all of these transactions You get the customer's details, which this is their name the bank information and the Amazon's the page And you try to keep that information So simple cost-effective ways of doing that is first of all you are trying to keep that information online now the beauty of the Internet and the technology developments we have today is we actually have devices we have Solutions that you can actually pay for that will actually take that stress off You're so but the most important thing like I said earlier is the fact that you as the provider as an individual All day that information should actually know your responsibility Towards the information you are holding so the first step of protect and the first step towards protection Starts with the business itself. I see that we have this information about ourselves or Customers and we have a duty to protect it We have a duty to protect the transactions that will go between each one of us We have a duty to store it in a place that is secure and you can various Concerts or you can always see some of them this time I don't want to mention it in the internet But you can see some of this in some of the service providers we use and they have like what's it called? They have certain packages for us which sometimes some of them are truly free, but they have like a limitation So great we start small and upload or secure your information update so if I give you a simple example and say let's say you're backing up your information on the cloud and You're not keeping the list your password for instance is Shared with like four or five system people and those people actually have nothing to do with your company or your business For goodness sake, you can't blame the service provider that is giving you that security You actually blame yourself because the first step like I said has to do with your consciousness Two words understanding what your role is in the system itself. Yes, there's a lot of expectation of what's All that should go to you for from your place You should first of all understand what you need to do to protect yourself and do some interact with so that's where sometimes We use this extension of because I confidentially see five AC and Some other words that the first is that you go to some organizations. They leave that data everywhere They have both equal. They have some things that they share that everyone can access So they're conscious that the security level towards Information security is kind of cool and sometimes they are doing it's out of ignorance because they know no better they sometimes have no idea that this got to be a risk to the business they are doing and Beyond that's the fact that when some of these incidences are called anyone starts to trace where it's actually started from So that's when it starts saying that maybe it was someone that actually let this information in a party or a table Or he left their phone unlocked or they left a laptop somewhere or they took their laptop to a repair repair shop and the repair person they actually took everything every motion they had they packed it up and The information was exposed so it's understanding how Biggest currency a currency that biggest currency being information is protected is shared And how it can become a source of risk so every organization Okay You know what let's quickly run off on a break when we come back from that break. I have a few questions stay with us We'll write back I think just staying with us now if you just tuned in we were discussing fraud prevention and protection in the digital space Society and we have with us most of fire you serve at the ball and I'll please this here what you have say remember You can join the conversation send us an SMS or what happens right one eight zero three four six six three You can also do this at way show after one of the hatch that way show so most of our in the conversation around protection and the prevention right what information is Too much information. I don't know if you understand what I mean Um Sometimes we carelessly just give out because I know a lot of people like in the US you protect a social security number And all of that we don't have those kind of things here. We will have NIN We have BVN and also what information is too much information So like what are the most sensitive informations to like Keep I'll say this because for instance I noticed in my bank that for every for every transaction that I did on my app, right? I get a fake alert email. Yeah, it I think it still happened But at some point had to block. I don't know what's happening. I was blocking and blocking I didn't even bother to report to the bank because it's not my account So so for instance if I did a debit of 10,000 error for instance I would get an email that showed that I got a credit of a 1,000 or 2,000 I didn't do that transaction. Wow, but I always used to get a What's it called an email when that happened and again the email? I don't remember giving the bank that email Jonathan So I didn't remember giving the bank that email. So that's why I didn't really bother me But now sometimes looking back again, is it as somebody is like shadowing my account? So is there something happening that I'm not aware of, you know, you know But again, I checked account balance. Everything is okay. So I don't really bother myself So now I don't know. Is it possible? I must have given that information somewhere. I don't know So what what exactly are like very very quick access if if if a fraudulent person wants to access your account What is too much information? It's kind of a question. So, um What I would just summarize that as is um Personally identified by information, which is kind of tricky because for instance, you mentioned my name. I know your name But these are information or this is information that is actually used In terms of you signing up for certain privileges So you're in I when you register for it You had your name your date of birth You had your address you had some information that we could track and say this is this person When you are doing your bvn as well, your kyc and some of those similar Um elements you have with the bank or the financial institutions They also ask you for some personal and inspiring information So you keep on seeing a pattern where even when you're doing your passports What I said pick up or we hear an update of the information They get the same data your name your address your date of birth your nest of king Your mother's median name and some identify information that we know that is only most likely unique to you One optional step you do is to get your um finger prints if they can so When I like it or not, you need to share some of this information But you actually have to ask yourself Who you have to share this information with or to and why it is necessary. So when you mention the social admissions number or security number that is used in some other countries which Nigeria also uses by with the NIN is why should that number be shared with Um a private business for instance And if it's supposed to be shared with a private business, what's the purpose like are they by law Meant to get that information for you. So what a foster does is the foster doesn't just That there are two methods so the foster first of all, there are some dads They try their best and what they do is I don't know you but I have your phone number I have the phone number Um, let's say 200 guests that are going for a party tomorrow at Becky And I'm aware of the details but they say this person is getting my this person And it's a child of social as too. I what I'm doing is I'm sourcing information. I'm observing I'm being information. I have no idea about what you do because I go on the internet and I search about this person Oh, I see on instagram or I see on facebook. This person has posted. Oh going binging up. Okay. So I'm Trying to identify a familiarize myself with that environment. So after I do that What I do is I probably gets a device that's actually send both messages So 200 of the guests Now imagine that 200 people are different This is difference They are thinking about differences. There are different moments and They go get an information and say oh Uh, Mustafa needs 5000 error is urgent. I'll get I'll pay you back at the venue of the events I hope this is for the people most likely at least probably one person. It's gonna be a spot. I've tried my own So that's something that's like I eat an instant I always say that that's actually a cost to every one of us. They want the people that's probably like more Uneniable about food secretions of that because usually what happens with food is it caches you sometimes at moments when you don't expect So your intuition sometimes Probably reminds us and maybe doesn't so we could always used to like oh, is this thing really okay? Maybe I should just sit back and think about it again. It might sound urgent Which is also another tactic, but just relax and look at it before Or let me double check from someone or first check us with someone else Now the second part is familiarization. So you have followers You have viewers share on your status You share on your internet and the truth there is we are on avatars So you know as much as your single profile icons and you're having this and stuff on the internet We actually don't know who is behind it. So even if I'm your friend online, it's very possible that Someone else is in my laptop today twice does and He's using the privilege of my access to your to your network and and dream what information you have So I may don't have any bad intentions towards you But someone else will actually have their intentions towards you. So what they do is they Look for every information you have about you They piece it up together and try to make sense of it and see if you can be defaulted Sometimes and this is some sometimes we call identity test where we try to steal your identity We try to mimic you and it's a fact it won't come in very dangerous now with AI I don't want to go in there right now, but where we try to We study you the foster actually takes time before the heart. They try to look at what we do In that circumstance and they try to pretend like you and With what's going on I think over sharing the role I'll say is like I said earlier any information that can be personally I can always say if it's not really necessary at that point in time I don't want everybody to know about it. I'll probably advise not to share Because if I say the biggest fraudulent people are these people that have created all these smartphones and all these things You would like I will literally have a conversation With you now that I just want to go and wax my eyebrow the next thing I did not I was not on the apple Jonas I was not on the app nothing, right? So Because the reason I'm saying this is that if they can hear it It means that the fraudulent people too can also hear me You know like literally like we don't have a privacy anymore Everything you talk about right now, right? If I just go on any social media platform The next thing I'm seeing sponsored ads On that thing like after every post are not that sponsored and after like it's just going to be back to back So, I mean we we we are actually very very exposed, you know So how do we begin to start to protect ourselves, right? If we say, okay? Yes, these things Information is out there, you know Some of us that went to vote our voters card. It has our NIN Do you know somebody is traveling you put your international passports on all day, whatever It has all those documents, you know, I stop putting location wherever whenever I'm posting on instagram But I'm saying to you that these things are like out there And sometimes I will feel like we're being monitored with our smartphones, right? So how do we begin to protect ourselves? What would a good prevention? Structure or strategy look like for anybody that is Conscious of what's it called protection So like I said, the first responsibility starts with the user and the user should I can't raise the fact that you are using a device. You are using a platform You are interacting with the other world was your responsibility towards yourself Towards the others. So if you want to protect yourself, you look up at yourself Of course, like when you're on the flight, they tell you to first put your safety jacket first before Taking care of someone else. So in that We are using that we are say need to understand the platforms And the C's and C's the terms and conditions of these platforms before using out of them Accepting permission is necessary to be shared. I would advise you Will I say delay? So what some people do these days now is they share your permission after the fact Now why I mentioned the fact that the user actually asked me responsibility is your comments does not reminded me of Even though you're the election like not just when I was observing and people shame Like you said, and we are saying what I say, in fact What really scares me or what really makes me worried is if you look at the past when Media reports the newspapers and television reports they used to this because they have skewed on this day They knew certain information that should not be shared with the public because of the implication However, now with everyone becoming A user of every platform is not everyone who actually understands the implication of what they are doing So even if you don't share this what happens is people start to dig up information about you And that's where I mentioned some of the I was going back to the question of what businesses can do They take information from different sources and start to share to the world Now in that instance, you have no control about that because someone else is doing that However, you can resort to the law the second part is I will be to Through streams here and the first one being that There are different generations right now There's the older generation, the certain generation And there is the I think it's the alpha generation and the alpha generation right now is at most risk Because parents who give birth before the child and generation after I think it's from 2015 or so I'm not so sure about the dates but This generation and the parents are actually comfortable with social media And before the baby is born When the baby is born after the baby is born They are giving a digital footprint about this child and The long-term effects of this are not really Come up but there is I just told this to show that you are putting that child at basically because Everyone actually has a time then about how they grew or what they were their entity and they've started They've studied them and this back Is like the web for someone to actually go back to Recently when we got into AI there was in Canada. Yeah, there was a news report about a I think it was a teenager that was kidnapped And The kidnappers what they used was AI So they pretended like the lady was and was being captured. So our voice was So basically a fake voice me and the mother was scared and it was already like I'm sourcing for funds So pay the people who kidnapped our dogs and Nobody alive in our child was actually safe somewhere else. So when our child appeared she was like she was confused because Washing me was like that voice was actually a child feeding the mom Can you help me with these captors or we discuss these people have caught me So basically what we are saying is we need to Be very circumspect about what we wish about our friends. So it's not just about us because sometimes like I said Why my public just be having that form of security? Whatever they have about you cannot be within your control. So you should like after that Responsibility towards the information you start to solve the questions about This information I'm sharing can put this order possible in danger Can you put them at risk? Who am I sharing sweet? So maybe sometimes you don't want to share with a closed circle But like I said, this day is anything that goes out there just as you guys already did because now we have screenshots Even when they are safe that prevents you from taking screenshots. What's on it would do they take videos So everyone is trying to like Everyone is like over sharing and maybe it's like the dopamine effects of social media So I would just advise that you take a second look and even information you have out there try to scrape it up If you see that maybe it's something that you don't want to be doing when you speak to the web Admin of such websites or Contact some other web administrators to like help you to remove this information Because there's some forms that actually allow you to be able to request for certain information not to be shared So you might have done it in the past and now you're thinking about it and you're like Do I really need this information? Do I want people to really know about this? If you want to remove it you can always contact those who have published such information about you But I'll just say try to limit the personal information about you that is out there try as much as possible to limit that Okay, so you know that was just reduce your digital footprints Okay Not to sound too technical, but I was also going to talk about I would rather ask about Especially in the machine learning blockchain and Kubo I think blockchain particularly because I've read in several places Where they've mentioned that blockchain actually has very strong security features So is there by any or rather is there any chance that blockchain can actually help in for prevention? Yeah, so like So there's a security architecture for all of these platforms. Even the web itself as a security plan What's it called security platform? Um, the degree to the extent to which the users are sophisticated on each platform is the degree to which you would get Relative attacks. So that comes in two ways So if you're using blockchain, I would say you have um security that's mature or less strong You also have those who are knowledgeable enough to use such platforms So what does that mean that means such people are less entrancing enough to Take advantage of the system itself. So irrespective of the platform itself Even if it's the like I said, I always go off digital and just say let's assume that everything we are doing is paperwork What's the security measures we actually have the and when you start from there you start to imagine how this Well, I say basics are transferred to the online space the digital space and seeing how The architecture behind it. How does it interact with you? What what's what's the form of communication between yourself and each of these well, I said platform So if it's blockchain, if it's cyber or whatever it is, you actually have to look at the end to end process and see that Okay, this device or this model this platform Who owns the data? Who owns the information? If something goes wrong, who can I contact? Is there a law behind it? Because that's where you have to start taking things very seriously so that you can know how if something goes wrong How can you actually seek? What's called seek justice from the legal framework? I was going to say that there's a really high rise of fraud in Nigeria especially especially amongst young people Young people are going into this what's it called cyber fraud, you know, I want to blow You know, and it's really bad. Honestly speaking like it's literally really bad You you are hoping and praying that you know Some people would just you know look away from that thing, but I think it's very lucrative. So I want to ask you Mustafa really how easy is it for fraudsters to make money because it seems like that is the new Job job Market for them harvesting young people right? Is it is it as easy as they make it seem? You know, they would And they will buy it best, you know I mean I mean I've seen a lot of videos on social media If I some have even sung songs about it, you know, like it I think it's just in a walk in the park. Well as it be like this. So, you know It looked it looked like a career that somebody can go and try Yes, maybe they won't blow But I want to believe that these things are not are not particularly easy I mean, there's a video that I love that video that audio sound a lot of people have used it on tiktok Wave a fraudster called her said give me that there was a code that just came to your number He says zero zero zero zero zero that one. They guys say you are you are a bastard You are a fool. She said she kept on. Okay. Okay. Let me tell you the last one for four You know, so she knew that she was talking to a fraud star, right? So, I mean like literally how easy is it because I know Fraud from I can smell it from afar. So boy for them to still be really really in existence It means that I mean, is it that they're up in their game or we are just very ignorant So how easy is it for these guys, you know to make money? So it's just like asking it safe. How is it easy points like have a successful what I say I talk about great or something like that. You always keep trying to look to you easy So and we have like him over. He's been on the 20 world. So There's a lot of what I say data sets to play rates so and As we continue to exist whether we like it or not So every's gonna thought actually every's existed even before we came into this world Like I just say what has actually happened now is that the dynamics has changed and because now we have Now it has moved on to so to the cloud the fraud all like the physical one touch and follow They take advantage of the old or the elderly Because if some of them or most of them are not interested in using technology and some of them are like I'm not going to use this But sometimes or some some way they still find a way to make their Commits and the old post is like, how could I be so How could I also know to do this but basically like I said they are taking advantage of what's going on So usually we have something reported for triangle Which basically that's model like tries to summarize the motives behind all the elements of what it's about one of it is pleasure The second is opportunity the third is rationalization pleasure basically is what's motivated to do what you're doing and I have to admit because the unemployment statistics are actually out there so You have quite a number of people that being around that pressure. You must give us something But I use your maintenance is giving us this and that so there's a certain pressure and like I said You can't really you can't blame anyone for that. You have to actually Ask yourself what's the society itself define as is moral conduct Because like I said that I mentioned something about trust itself like there are some elements in the past before You'll probably leave some items out and people will not touch it But these days you can't try it and the second part is like you're saying when you mentioned the artist saying something about that There's actually a good artist. There also be this day a song and he was actually acting is called wire something Basically about food tutorial, which is very interesting and he was teaching people how to actually commit to literally for the effort So sometimes and this is probably as it was the society itself talking about was the culture because whether you'd like to admit it or not The songs the country pieces that we are getting actually reflects What the morals of society itself is so if we are like Grammarizing so there's got so much ground on some of these It means we are kind of like okay, it is I'm not sure we're endorsing fraud. Yeah But I was picking up Um comments quickly. Okay. Good evening my dear beautiful sisters of what are you saying? For prevention and protection. Did you study when it comes to for prevention? We need to tackle the matter carefully Your guest made mention of understanding someone before knowing before knowing how to deal the person and I agree whole heartedly Another thing is we need to inquire about giving out information so that we do not give out too much information Overfamiliarities is another thing that leads to fraud. What is that woman doing both enlargement? Just like that. She cuts her life short doing something that is not necessary Sister, thank you. Sister. Thank you. My debuts for sister Chinelo for a job. Well, don't thank you very much Daniel I'm calling you show yesterday. I missed you yesterday sister. Wow. My name is Daniel Even me I don't miss myself You will miss me more. Thank you Daniel But I mean uh, mr. Fire in wrapping this up in the minute, right? Uh, what would you say to Government Paul no not you've spoken about government policies, right? So how do we start to implement some of these policies that we already have on ground? Is this something Or or really is fraud fraud prevention just solely on I think it's just solely on what's called information Dissemination. So let me channel it to the National what's the word now? The the one like orientation agency, right? How do you think they can help? Yeah, well, that's a government agency that's mandated to like spread arenas of different Of well spread arenas among them by citizens of the country Um, we actually have even for consumers. So there's consumer worldwide that actually occurs between you and some likes the organizations or let's say you brought something on this fake or stuff like that So they actually have channels that you can actually um contact them and you express yourself Where the problem is is after the response. So when you're talking about your bank and incident is actually cba itself also Say it's possible try to resolve it within your bank and the bank doesn't resolve this They have an email. They have some contact numbers for you to do it. I personally do this So I always test the system and make sure that okay, it's not working Then I try to escalate so because it's means like trying to find and seek out justice The second I would say I would talk about the second I would say I think Beyond the NRA itself because I've heard a lot of people saying the NRA They're trying to make sure it lives up to its task is the media itself. So what we are sharing and what we remind people about The consciousness of people are being Let there's there's something that's in their mind whenever it's also There's a book that I listen to there's a way saying oh I'll never do anything that's going to spoil my father's name and this book caster is about 60 something years old That's what the ends this show with every every every day. So there's some little things that we share that people are looking of their young and they're like Okay, I'm trying to go they're looking up to you as a presenter and like, okay Maybe the information you're passing can make them its company dates their concerns or you condemn it So don't take whatever you're doing for granted the media actually has Absolutely, and that's what we'll continue to keep up with this conversation On fraud prevention protection and we'll bring in a lot more angles to this. Thank you so much, Mustafa For joining us tonight. Thank you. Chinelo Now before we go and show you follow us don't fall victim Follow us across all our social media platforms are way sure Africa. You can also try to find Mustafa on the What's he called on his social media handles as well? It's very important to get as much information as you can Remember to like share and invite your families and friends to watch and follow the conversation And if you're looking for his hand to check our page, you will see his hand today Now if you missed our quote for today here, it is again We are giving away too much biometric data even bad guy wants your biometric data Remember this he doesn't need your actual fingerprints Just the data that represents your fingerprint that will be unique one of a kind Try see you guys on monday At 8 p.m. Also bring another great conversation to your screen. Ciao