 Welcome once again to the breakfast and now let's go back in history to the year 1912 to talk about a Boxer and of course at that time was one of the first black world heavyweight champions who on this day Was arrested for violating what was called the Man Act his name Jack Johnson and it was Named the gavel stone giant was an American boxer who in this time in 1912 and in that era the Jim Crow eras It was popularly called was the first world heavyweight champion He at that time opened a restaurant Which was a desegregated restaurant that was run by his wife a white woman On this day it was arrested or one of the times it was arrested on the grounds that his relationship with Lucille Cameron who was his wife a white woman Violated what was called the Man Act which was an act against transporting women against straighter state lines for immoral purposes Apparently his wife Lucille Cameron was a sex worker, and so he was arrested on this day in 1912 Eventually of course that case was dropped Jack Johnson eventually was arrested multiple other times for you know the same case And you know one of the things that was controversial about this was big It was the fact that he was tried and found guilty at all times by an all-white jury and sentenced to you know Sometimes a year and a day sometimes a little bit more than a year in prison for you know the same act And he eventually of course continued fighting for money and of course opened other businesses and you know continued You know to run his business while of course still boxing He later was pardoned by former US president Donald Trump But on this day he became a person who was arrested for violating that man act simply because his wife Who was a white woman was an alleged sex worker and it was against What was called the man act at that time in 1912 to 1913? That's what we have for you in history today. Now, let's get into our first major Conversation on the program this morning. We're talking security and the story that has broken headlines across Nigeria in the last 24 hours the allegations by the Wall Street Journal that the Nigerian government paid bandits In katsina state $50,000 in order to buy back an anti aircraft weapon that was taken from Nigeria's Fighters and soldiers It's said that the the weapon needed to be bought back so that the president's plane would be safe If he decided to fly over katsina this morning We're speaking with the national publicity secretary of the youth party. Mr. Ayodili adio Good morning. Thanks for joining us Good morning. Thank you for having me We also have with us. Uh, yeah, who's a get so was an anti terrorism and intelligence expert morning. Mr. Get so great to see you this morning Good morning. Thank you for having me. Good morning. I want us to start with the Well, anti-terrorism and intelligence expert. I want you to share your thoughts on the story. First of all um, the Nigerian force of course has put out a statement saying that it is a complete hoax and You know fabrication and of course, it's you know, as always Um, you know set up to embarrass the president and to derail the fighter gangs insurgencies But when you read the story, did it, you know seem very likely That something like that could happen Well, uh, this didn't come to me as a surprise Uh, because uh, the Nigerian government under Buhari's watch As well as the the politicians of our pdp apc abga, whatever you have Um, that is a trend. Uh, it has been their attitude And um going by what has been happening in the last six years Five to six years or seven years One can easily accept that Because the Nigerian security and Nigerian intelligence have compromised Uh, in many situations and in many circumstances In the case of the issues related to Kidnapping Banatary armed robbery And all other sagas that has been happening, especially around the the katana The katana state and other knows western state as well as the other part of the country There are reasons we could believe that and there are reasons we could say that it may be just a political Uh, the reasons why we can accept that is the fact that Um, I have been saying and I'm repeating myself that all the governors of all the states Where this uh, bandactry and kidnapping for us some as well as other forest criminality is happening And um, uh, there is a very close relationship between the bandit's commanders commanders and the the governments of the states And there is also a very close relationship Uh between the security operatives and um, the the the the bandit's commanders The simple reason here is the fact that Uh, they have not they have been arresting and apprehending many of the criminals Presenting or showcasing of um, uh, a kind of presenting making a presentation a public presentation That they have Received some of the repentants bandits. So but we have not had any action actionable major or any framework analysis or from a system that is scheme in the monitoring a kind of guiding the process of uh managing those so-called repentant bandits That is one Secondly, I always refer back to lai mohammed as well as the nasa rufai and the governor's of zamfara So koto and the some of the leadership of the governor's leadership part of the Akatsuna state government as well as the negia state government that they have been saying that they are in touch They have been in touch with this the criminal leaders and After the apprehension of mr. A bc, they will say that we're working hard To see that they have been rescued That's what happens to the children of bankara. That's what happens to the children of jengebe That's what happens to the children of kagara That's what happens to the children of bin um, uh, Bin yawuri That's what happens to many who were apprehended who were kidnapped in many part of katsuna many part of neja Many part of kaduna, uh, many Part of us are for a so koto and others that are like and there is also very clear testimony And uh allegation from isa local government around sabon bigny between isa sabon bigny And zhormi, which is one of the notorious hideout of the criminals that uh the The commissioner for a security affairs of so koto state was was uh kind of Allegation was raised against him by his indigenous community That is isa where he came from Which led to destruction and burning of his house and yet We didn't get any feedback from the government and we see we saw the district Standing before the community as the pride in us So where he was Quran that uh, he doesn't have any hands and if he has whatever this and that So, uh, or it is very very difficult and we have many iota of evidences Many reasons are many evidences that these governments in these states They have either direct if not directly indirect relationship with these criminals If they don't have how how are they accessing? How are they working to contact these criminals when they kidnapped someone recently just about in 24 hours or more than that? The ml of gongunu again He's uh, he's uh, uh, uh, he's he's freedom. So how does that happen? I I wonder who are really the the contacts between the criminals in the forest and the government Because we have not seen any bloodshed We have not seen anybody being killed and uh, we are still visiting some part of this forest In conductive research and we realize that some of the air these air locations are still Hard to reach and difficult Yes, of course, they became hard to reach and difficult terrain not because of what it is I know some part of the hard to reach the original hard to reach on the original difficult terrain Very very difficult. I find it very very difficult when visiting them But I know there are common locations that uh, government have invested so much in putting a tight road Or in in in providing some social Amenities like hospital schools and other things and other social structures But they are not being accessible by those who uh, it was meant for them. So which means Actually, uh, there are questions and I have made An assertion in many national and international media that uh These guys really in kaduna in katsuna in part of our nature and in part of zanfarazi on the a that is anti aircraft It this has been long. It's not this is not the first time Uh, this is the first time the air force are responding to it But I have been saying that I have been confirming a rare farming that these guys have Have owned an aircraft Uh, uh misires and government did nothing. So I I I really find it very very difficult How they get access to these arms and uh, if at all government have been saying that we know them We know how their finances. We know why they are. So what are you doing that you are chasing shadow Putting up the network is not a solution. You are chasing shadow Closing markets is chasing shadow. You know their locations. You know who they are You have their contact if they kidnap someone you know how to contact them and get the person Release. So why can't you deal with them and finish the matter rather than wasting everybody's time and deceiving everybody in the country? Okay, so, um, I'd also like to ask let's stay with the issue of the ransom although we have you know government and Over the time saying oh, we're not paying ransom ransom is not being paid But in this particular case if the story is anything to go by Do you think that you know the option of paying ransom is the best? And we're talking about the Nigerian air force. Yeah paying the ransom. Is that the best that we can do? Well, I don't support pay ransom in any circumstance either in the case of AA And to aircrafts a missile or in any situation. I don't support and I will never support Pay ransom in any circumstance Even though There may be some certain tactical strategy that can be used as a schematic strategy towards Attending or understanding some of the complexities of the forest Which is one of the challenges of the Nigerian security operators However, I believe sincerely that the money shouldn't be away the best way of Addressing the issue because if you know for example one of the suspects that is uh, Nankalemi or Halelu or Turji That is uh, some of these are the key Bandits that are Cube bandit commanders that uh, there is a highest suspicion and the confidence that they are they are they are they have In their possession the AA so if at all you know their locations are known and their locations None of them their location that is out of 40 kilometer radius So if you know the we know their locations Government knows their locations security operative knows their location and you are in in touch with them Why do you have to go on paying the alleged? $50,000 ransom. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that the money has been paid But I will not be surprised if the money is paid and I'm not in support in any way Or pay ransom to to the bandit's all right. Either I'm not in support of that All right, let's bring in the national publicist secretary of the youth party. Um, Iodili adio Good morning once again And let's also get your thoughts on this one. The of course the Nigerian government has put out a statement saying that This is a hoax and um, you know, it's a Fake story by the wall street journal So let me get your thoughts. Do you agree with the Nigerian government that you know, how can they pay For a weapon or to buy a weapon back from people that they have been fighting and defeating Well, I think it's a very it's a very straight one. Um, but but like, you know, like, um, you know I let you get to and just said if we're going to go by antecedents and see Which of the parties, you know have has denied or has lied about setting security situations in the last six years It would be the Nigerian government And if I were to bet against any of the two parties, I would happen to be betting against the Nigerian government even though it's sad um to realize that, um, we will be paying $50,000 to retrieve brak and anti aircraft Um Weapon from bandits and terrorists living in the forest Now whether or not this transaction has happened, what we cannot deny Is that our forest particularly in Zamfara, Katina, um, Birinigwari, somewhere Kaduna state are controlled exclusively by these bandits Right the entire Ugu forest stretch is controlled exclusively by these individuals. In fact, they control tens and tens of communities Across the northwestern part of the country and in many places in the north central part of the country So many communities are now under the control of the bandits in Niger state, which wasn't the case Case of six seven years ago So what you cannot deny is the fact that, um, you know, bandits or terrorists in the northwestern part of the country Are increasingly growing their capabilities To lay siege on the Nigerian state What you also cannot deny Is the lack of capacity Or the dwindling capacity of the Nigerian state to effectively respond To these acts of terrorism by these bandits or so called terrorist groups The northwestern part of the country And just like, um, um, you know, I'm against what you just said It's it's clear that they know where these bandits are But the problem is the lack of capacity to to effectively flush these bandits Out of their their air, you know, and again Just two weeks ago, um, a senior naval officer Spoke before the national assembly and talked about the proliferation of arms coming in from Niger and charge Largely from Chadian soldiers who are selling these arms for 20 or 30 dollars And most of these arms are flowing in all the way from Libya Down to Chad and these soldiers are selling these arms and they easily find their ways across the border And her statement was quite clear and pathetic That as long as that flow continues to happen from Libya to Chad And from the Chadian borders and the Nigerian borders into Nigeria Who will never be able to deal with insecurity in our country So the Nigerian government is failing clearly or spectacularly in two ways One our inability to deal with the inflow and the proliferation of light arms And of course in this case sophisticated weapons From our borders in Chad and Niger into Nigeria And of course our internal capacity to respond to crime Is a serious problem that the Nigerian state is grappling with We can try they can spin it whichever way that they want to But one thing that is difficult to spin is the lack of state capacity To deal and respond effectively to these crimes Now many people forget that in many of these communities that these atrocities happen People have lived in these communities for hundreds of years Even places like Rugu You have people who have lived in Rugu for hundreds of years Now what suddenly changed overnight Is the consequence of bad governance over the years And I hear every time the excuses that the government makes That the terrain is difficult to access some of these villages is difficult Excuse me Whose job is it to provide infrastructure in many of these communities to allow access into those communities A lot easier It's the government that is supposed to do that And then they turn around again to tell you that access to these places are difficult Abandoning the people in those communities in the hands of bandits and terrorists You know what who killed them every day Who who stopped them from going to farms who raped their women who plunged them into penery So again the state has to increase its capacity to respond to these acts of terrorism Otherwise it's a waste of time debating whether or not the wall street's journal Has told the story that is false or that is true. It's just a typical way of spinning A narrative that is clear before our very eyes that terrorists are getting traction in the northwest That they are taking places in the north central part of the country and their capacity to inflict pain on the Nigerian people Is increasing by today Mr. Adio Sorry, Mr. Adio Two things that I hope you can quickly, you know respond to these things. The first one would be on How you know, you feel you know, you're your public secretary for the youth party With regards to government's efforts After the promises that were made before getting into power Some of the narratives that were sold in 2014 And seen how far we've come six years later It still doesn't feel like anything much has changed But at the same time this same government continues to say that their bandits repenting in their thousands You know every now and then As reports that that's in thousand of these bandits and terrorists have repented You know to the Nigerian government So does this do you believe these things and are you disappointed as you know as a as a Nigerian That we still are having these conversations today um I'll tell you most sincerely that I am I'm disappointed as a person And of course as a political party. We are extremely disappointed because For anything we believed that the experience of mr. President being in the military And moon rising to the rank of the general would have played a critical role In managing insecurity in our country Unfortunately, that has not been the case and I explained to you why that hasn't been the case And I explained to you why that hasn't been the case and it's because we have not set our priority straight Now what we have done in the youth party for instance is to publish a document called the police reforms Which was supposed to post internal security in our country and what did that paper essentially do? um because we have we have we have viewed this problem Broadly and fingered the problem right at the failure of internal security There's a complete breakdown of internal security in our country and the police is supposed to be responsible For providing this internal security in our country now What we have done not just in the last six years in fact in the last ten years Is to bring in the military who are supposed to be fighting against external aggression to maintain internal security in our country And that cannot work And in many communities if you if i'm sure you've had Numerous reports of killings in many communities in katina in zamfara in kaduna in niger Many of these killings happen in communities in rural communities across the northwestern part of the country Where there is no police presence or inadequate police presence to protect the people in those communities There are so many people who would rather and as I speak to you who would rather pay A fine to these bandits to access their farms that to put their hopes in the states to protect them They are the police So what are we saying? We're saying that we need to increase the capacity of the police to respond to internal security threats And to do that we need to invest in the training of the nigerian police force To boost their skills and their competencies to be able to respond to crime the 21st century That will entail improving their forensic lab that will entail Of course improving their enumeration That will entail an entire restructuring of the nigerian police as we as we rightly pointed the document So that state governors can have the powers to empower community policing in many of these communities that lack the presence of the nigerian police We need strong community Policies who are well equipped who are well funded who are well Renumerated who are well trained to be able to respond to local crimes in these communities If we don't do that if we keep on expecting the nigerian military to be deployed from wherever they are deployed To go and deal with the problem in rugu to go and deal with the problem Uh In zamfara to go and deal with the problem in niger will simply be blinking in the dark And and amit gets a bit a very very important point that the geography of many of these places in northwestern nigeria The geography where many of these bandits are operating is difficult for the nigerian army Many of them do not understand the geography in the places where they are going to fight But if you have trained a local police force Who are who are grown in that particular community who understand the geography in the places? They're supposed to respond to those crimes. You will see better crime prevention And better responses to some of these criminalities that we see in this community at the moment It doesn't look to me like there's a clear strategy to deal with insecurity Which is why we also have proposed that there needs to be a national security commission that draws intelligence From every state of the federation and not just from security agents Our former security personnel, but from geographers From social scientists or from economists because the problem is not just boots on ground It's about the socioeconomic condition that is allowing crime also signs Okay, but let's also look at this other Concern, I mean the fact that over over the years over time There's been a lot of concern and worry that Even this bandit or terrorist are becoming more equipped. They have better You know weaponry than you know the Nigerian Force entirely now the question is how are they getting these weapons? I mean, how do we get such sensitive weapons such weapons in their hands now in this particular case Although, you know, you have the Nigerian Air Force refuting that saying that's not true The claim is that you know the lost the anti-graft Gone in the battle with the Nigerian army So first of all, they like to know how those weapons are getting into their hands And what government can do to ensure that you know all of these sensitive weapons don't end up in the hands of this Bandit Ms. I get so you can go ahead with that one Um well There are one let me before I go into that Let me make a little rider to my my to IO daily The issue is is the question is I have is do we even have the police do we even have the military as far as some concern? What do we have is errands That's the question. They don't have passion. They don't have patriotism. They don't have compassion. They don't have interest of their job What we have in the last 35 22 to 35 years is recruitment of errands Not recruitment of Nigerian army or Nigerian police or Nigerian custom or Nigerians immigration or Nigerian civil defense Or the the drugs law enforcement agents We are having a recruitment of errands where a council is submitting the list Where a chairman local local government chairman is submitting his list Emirates is the try traditional religious institutions are submitting names And those names are those are the people that are being enlisted into the security now I'm going back to to to her question Uh, the reality is These criminals are indigenous of all these communities 99.9 percent of those who are committing crimes in north western Nigeria As far as I'm concerned as a professional Uh, criminality a forest criminality therapist and there are some experts on criminals behavior and based on facts and evidence These arms are coming through our border. They are not coming through any Another person and there have been conurbants. There are a number of apprehensions made by the governments whereby a government presented to us to the public not to me or not to professionals like me to the public That there is a conurbance Where a policeman or a military was found guilty of conniving with these criminals in selling arms the issue is Have have you ever had in the last six years or so? anybody that had been punished in the in the in the in the in the public to serve as a deterrence Was there any feedback from the police from the military from the dss after apprehension of anybody Any criminals found wanting in possession of rpg pmg ak47 ak49 and also There yes, of course as I have been saying the arm importers the arm traders are foreigners Less than 1% why the criminals are 99% indigenous? But the arm movers and arm transporters are Nigerians So these arms yes, of course, they may be coming through Some illegal there may be some Proportion or percentage that is coming through an illegal means But as far as of concern if we really have a government If we really have a serious government If we really have a serious state if we really have a sovereign states If we really have a military an intelligence system a police an intelligent system of police a dss an Intelligence system of dss in operations and they are getting all required support And at the same time they are being supervised by from the presidency or by the presidency This could have been curtail and this could have been managed But because of the three or four reasons one There is no supervision from the presidency and from the agents that are reporting and providing feedback to the president That is one of the reasons Secondly the president is so adamant that he doesn't care what he cares is to Provide approval for money to be spent on security But whether people are being secured or result is being Getting or not nothing is happening. Our proliferation is on the rise I want to tell you And I have been warning the state Not only the state of Zamfara, but the Nigerian states That during the closure the shutdown of network in Zamfara and Kazuna The amount of arm being imported into Nigeria Outnumbered by By over 50 percent than what it was than what was imported before And they know they are getting information. They're getting intelligence on how these arms are being proliferated There are common ways. There are difficult ways There are simple ways There are there are four as far as this supply chain mechanism have not been destroyed That is unimportance. They have their own syndicate Armed traders. They have their own syndicate Armed transporters. They have them or their own syndicate armed movers. They have their own syndicate And this has been the reason why Arms are being proliferated and these arms are not coming through any forest Forest border. Yes, of course some little are coming through the forest border But most of these arms are coming through the actual border Where you and me can use to cross to Niger, to Benin, to To Tobu, to Cameroon, to Chad and so on and so forth But the reason why it cannot be managed is one of the key reasons as mentioned by Ayodele That uh, we don't have the capacity. It's not that we don't have the capacity But we don't have the willingness. There is no political will. There is no administrative will. There is no There is no No, what you have as far as some concern is not police institution. The result is an errand institution Why because how were they recruited into the services? How were they recruited? Which I just read recently It makes me had a sleepless night and I cried throughout the night when I saw 34 000 police were mobilized to a number for election. If you can mobilize that, why can't you mobilize? Less people with 50% of that you can manage the issue of The rubu and the other forest My colleague is talking about and you can also manage even the border line That lady who was speaking on behalf of Nigerian Navy when I had her talking I laughed because I feel How how comes this became What she's having as a rank because as far as I'm concerned if she really have that rank I expected her to be more More intelligent and more elaborate and she wouldn't have made some of the statements she made in the public because some of the informations regarding the movement of the arms and How arms are coming into the country and proliferations and so on and so forth are not supposed to be made public We are politicizing and we are deceiving ourselves and as far as I'm concerned we are breeding criminality We are not eliminating criminality We are not working towards the issues of criminality and we are also offering more ways of kind of Making improving the capacity of the criminals in the capacity of the arm bandits The capacity of the arm traders the capacity of the Arm movers the capacity of the arm importers and also we are also breeding the Future criminality that Nigeria may not be able to manage. All right. Mr. Yahuza geto I'm gonna come back to you with regards to Security and of course on-ground assessment on some of these things I want us to bring back Ayodele adio If you've been listening, of course, there's some of the things that has been described by Mr. Geto I've really scary And frightening, you know seeing, you know, what is likely to occur in the near future miss adio What would you say? Nigerian needs because we have, you know, about a year plus to the next elections I'm not sure how this will play out or how Nigeria would survive security wise Before the next elections, but what would you say must? Be done if we're serious as a country To help night the country heal from this insecurity challenge I think we need a complete overhaul of our internal security architecture Miss adio. Miss adio. I understand that But We are Nigerians and I want you to, you know, share this, you know with me from You know a personal perspective Yes, that's what we need. This is the same way, you know before the end says protests and during the protests The call then was for police reforms. None of that has been done So we know what we need But it doesn't seem likely that any of this will happen So, I mean, which is the problem We can't keep saying that we know what we need and none of it is likely to happen And you're saying it's not likely to happen because of the kind of politicians that you have exactly Because the real problem Is the lack of political will To implement Some of these provisions that will make our country a lot more secure that will stop the bloodshed That will stop the impunity That will stop the endless killings and murder and arson across our country is the lack of political will And that is why that is why we keep on saying that elections have consequences And rather than sell your vote, uh, you know for a pot of soup Um of a loaf of bread You must begin to ask more critical questions about the kind of politicians that we elect At every single level from local government to state government and of course up up Up down to the presidency because elections do have consequences And I like that we put your hand right on the body Where you say that there is a lack of political will to implement some of these ideas That are quite simple on the surface Why is it that today Our training colleges of police of police are still in a very dilapidated state Why is it that as of today Police officers are still living in penury. We transfer them from one state to the other And we don't make any adequate provisions for them to survive Why is it that at this very State in our country the entry level the screening level of police officers or soldiers is such that A politician can put a shed on 20 people in his community and off he goes into the police academy So these are very simplistic and basic things That someone with a political will can ensure that there is quality control Across board to ensure that the people who are recruiting into the police force are people of competence Of character and people that are willing to upskill We also should ensure that once they get into the police They are provided with the right skills the right equipment and the right environment To apply the skills that they have they have acquired over time We also should ensure that we renumerate them accordingly so that they don't have to stay on street corners To use their guns to threaten average Nigerians and in fact rob average Nigerians of their hard-end monies Because they want an excuse to survive now all of these things will not happen If we continue to elect the very same politicians that have put us in this mess altogether Because the police problem did not start today. It's been over 20 years coming When we have vulgarized the entire institution and have plunged it into what you know My good friend calls an errant institution as we speak today Because there has not been any adequate attention paid to the development of this sector over the years And we keep electing these same kinds of politicians who make vague promises Who come into power and are arrogant about the fact that people are dying on their watch every day And they don't seem to care. That's the most hurtful part of it They don't seem to care that thousands of people are dying under their watch every single month And they seem not to be able to find the political will To put the necessary things in place to ensure change comes And that's why we're crying that young people across the country Particularly in these communities where they have buried their mothers where they have buried their sisters Where they have buried their fathers where they cannot go to farm to farm So go and register to vote to ensure that their vote comes and to vote out these politicians Who have brought nothing but bloodshed to them and their communities and to vote political parties in not because They are dominant or not But because they have a clear plan A clear plan to secure the country to create wealth for the nigerian citizens and to move our country forward Enough of this kind of politicking when we think in election cycles Just like like the speaker said we're deploying thousands of Policemen to go and protect ballot boxes in anambra state when people are dying in katina and in zafara every single day We're we're deploying thousands of soldiers to protect oil installations in the niger delta when people are dying every single day We're deploying police officers to protect vip's in our country When there are so many communities without police presence in our country, when will this madness stop? The primary purpose of governance is the security and the welfare of the average nigerian and they have jettisoned this and we continue to excuse their incompetence We continue to excuse their lack of patriotism because they are from some dominant political party or what? Let's wake up and smell the coffee. These countries are on and it is sinking if we don't act quick Our country will be overrun by bandits and terrorists and would would be paying homage to warlords across our country All right, let's begin. Mr. Getzoo at this point in time Uh, I'd like to find out, you know, because some persons have described, you know The relationship between the nigerian government and this bandit or terrorist as Cordial that seem to have a cordial relationship But the question here is could it be that the nigerian government to say that yes the force They don't have the capacity That don't have enough personnel That don't have the equipment, you know to go ahead because from all that is going on It feels like we know where these bandits are We have when communication with this bandit or this terrorist However, you want to put it but what is stopping the arrest? I am an indigent of northern northwestern nigeria being from cano state and was a local government Uh, having been to all political works and all communities in the nineteen northern states Was a particular attention to the areas of where this thing is happening Even though I have been to almost to all part of west african states All the forest, I know what it is like If you switch off a light in my room and when I'm looking for a needle, I know where to find it That's how I have a knowledge and understanding of the west african forest so, um The issue of either the there is a relationship a cordial relationship between the bandit and the The states or the nigerian state or rather the states Of zamfara katsuna so koto kaduna and where all these things are happening The answer is yes, and I'm saying it in in cups in capital letter and in bold and italic Let's everybody know But caught me everywhere that I say it's that the states have a cordial relationship Was bandit in the forest within their domain I have I want to I need to state some of the reasons that I can say it in public There are some reasons that I can't say it in public But the security operatives and the government of these states knew what I have been Information I have been sharing with them and they know what I know And they know what I know is happening in their respective states I'm not there as a spy I'm just there as an investigator. I go to the forest. I go to the security agencies I go everywhere because I need to I am conducting a field-based research Now that I'm talking to you I've been in the field in almost almost 30 days. I have not been with my family I have been moving around the states of the northeast and the northwest. So as far as some concern The reasons I want to state is how do governments have Contact to get the children of jengébi The school children that were kidnapped the one that were kidnapped in in a maradu The one that were kidnapped in kagara the one that were kidnapped in What do you call it? And at the same time recently the emir of bongudu Sir Kim Flanning bongudu has been released Can government from the statement we we we read that police and the family work as a team Together with the two governments government of the two states that is for one person That is for the emir of bongudu Have they forgotten that there are thousands in captivity in the last two years or thereby So but how do government Work out modernities to create a relationship to bring out to get the emir emir emir of bongudu free How do they get the children of kagara? How do they get the children of? Ah Mr. Gato There is a very clear relationship Governor Masari and other governor governor materially and others they have been proclaiming Even though it's not proclaiming because we have evidence That they have born and conducted dialogue with these guys the dialogue I have been disputing That not any governor that says that he conducted a dialogue with any criminals I doctor who's I guess what I said is a typical lie It has no basis If you conducted any dialogue, I have five degrees and four diplomas I am ready to take back my certificates back to the institutions that have awarded me this certificate If you have any evidence to show the public print it in the in tomorrow's tuesday in tomorrow's daily news papers Print your evidence and I will submit all my certificates back to the institutions They have given me five degrees and four diplomas. So as far as I'm concerned, it is not a dialogue We have seen governor Masari moving around the forest was loud speaker the commanding officer the The commanding officer of the military the police commissioner and the director dss They will just move around the forest and say why is the body head? Why is the village head? Please come we know that you have criminals here. Please call them call them So they come they had a discussion that is not a dialogue If you we want to call it. Yeah, I was I got so um I'm not sure if we still have you but um In the interest of time we would have to wrap up you must Um, so get so we would have to wrap up the conversation here this morning It's it's obviously something that can go on for days and days You know without ending and these are very very important conversations. Um Sadly, of course, we had a time. So thank you very much. Yeah, I was a get so for joining us This morning. I would delay a deal National publicist is the secretary of the youth party. Thank you also I truly enjoyed speaking with you both this morning looking forward to another one. All right. Many thanks for joining us Thank you. Thank you. All right Stay with us take a short break when we come back. We're moving from security now to politics The apc's congresses across different states came with reports of violence and you know Issues, you know in in all those states. We'll be talking about that after this break. Stay with us