 very good morning to you. Thank you so much for keeping it Y254. This is Power Talk. My name is Ram Magukwa. As always, it is a pleasure being with you. I hope you're well. Remember, this is a show that comes to you each and every Thursday and the repeat of this particular show also airs at 10 p.m. We are coming to you live from the broadcasting house here in Nairobi, Kenya. We're also live streaming on our website. There's a www.kbc.co.ke4-y254. Engage with us. We value your feedback. The hashtag is Power Talk show on Twitter at Y254 channel and that's Ram. I look on it. This morning, it's all about cheating. A very interesting conversation here we're about to have today. Why do people cheat in relationships? That is a question that we are asking. Why do people in relationships cheat? What is the problem? What leads to cheating? Why do men cheat? Why do women cheat? What happened to the love that you once declared for one another that I will never cheat on you? I will love you. You are the only one. And we go, my jaber, my galtoto. And all of a sudden, it's all about cheating. Well, this morning, I want to understand this particular perspective here and especially when it comes to marriage, especially when it comes to dating, whether you even if you're looking into relationships. And to help us in this particular conversation, I am with a fantastic panel. To my extreme right, I am joined by Antonin Janga. He is a counselling psychologist. I always look in dapper with a suit man. I have a new phone. Happy new year to you. And I'm also with Emma Jerry. She is a film producer and actress and a media personality. Congratulations. Thank you. You're not saying much. Keep engaging with us. We value your feedback and show that you let us know where you're watching us from. And we shall sample your feedback as you continue with this morning conversation. Why do people cheat in relationships? That is a question. Give us your thoughts. We shall be able to engage you with you. This is Power Talk and Power Talk starts now. Let me start with you, Antonin. Yes. And I want to give the perspective, you for men, you for women. All right. This conversation, I want to specifically start with you, Antonin. I'm asking you, why do men cheat? Ram, that's a very good question. But I'd say number one thing why men cheat is commitment issues. They are men, Ram, who are in a relationship, but they don't really want to commit themselves. Now that's where the mistake comes in. Are you saying all men who cheat are not committed? Some men. Some men come to commitment issues. Another thing why men cheat is unmet needs. Let's say we need emotional, the emotional connection. So if you're with a lady and this lady doesn't give you that emotional connection, maybe I'm talking to you about something and you're not interested in that conversation, then why then should I continue that conversation with you? I can just go and talk to somebody else who can have that conversation with me and make expectations. Yes. Another thing is the sexual desire. Sexual desire. That desire, you really want to explore. You want to have sex with maybe a different person, maybe to explore the style. Maybe in relationship with this lady, and this lady is used to giving you one sex position. But you are some man, you're used to different sex positions. So now this lady, who is in a relationship, who is in a partner position more than you are, she wants to explore. I want to be different. But yeah, yeah, how you go into that? Maybe the sex drive of this lady is not the same as you was. Yes, you get it. Emma, women cheat. Why do women cheat, Emma? I think before we go to why women cheat. I can generally say that cheating starts from your mind. It's a mindset. It's a mindset. And you cannot do something if you've not thought about it. And when you think about something, why would you give it more attention? Because the more you give it attention, the more you would want to do it. So that cheating process started a long time ago. Yeah, and actually it is first conceived in the mind. In the mind. And now when you conceive it in the mind, now it brings about the desire to do so. Sometimes people cheat, like they have no reason to cheat, but anyway they do. Sometimes they don't have any reason to, but sometimes they do. But there are so many things why people cheat, both men and women. But in the society we are living today, a big number of people that cheat are men. A bigger number. Women, okay, I cannot say they don't cheat. They do, but a very, very small number compared to men. Because I want to ask you something. You've said a big number of people who cheat are men. Yes. Right? Yes. Now one plus one equals two. If a big number of people who cheat are men, these men are cheating with other women. Thereby the number is equal. The world we are living in today, the number, that number of women, most of them are young women. Because a man can cheat alone. A man is cheating with somebody else. So the number will be equal. Okay, I'm saying, yes. If the number of men is high, then the number of women is high because they are, 20 men are cheating with 20 women. But these 20 women, maybe 18 of them are not married. Maybe two or three are the ones that are married. Because when you look at the society we are living today, people, okay, when we're talking about cheating, that means there's someone who's committed to a relationship or to a marriage. So who are you cheating with? Are you cheating with a fellow person who's in a relationship or in a marriage? But my point is the big number of women who are in those cheating circles, most of them are young girls. And they end up cheating with no men who are married, even who are older than them. And we will get there. But I want you to tell me this one particular question. Answer me this. Why do we men cheat? Because even within this number you've specified, we have women who are married. Yes. I think, first of all, I'll go to his point, lack of commitment. Because if you are committed to someone, there are things you cannot even think about when you're committed to someone. Number two, there's what we called, hey, you know, I'm going to say this one. Immorality. It is very high in our society. So many people, and there are people who are just immoral, like they are naturally immoral. It doesn't matter what you do to them, if they just want to go out there and do whatever they want. You can give them everything that they want, but they will still go and cheat. What? But Emma, there is always a reason for cheating. Yes, exactly. There is always a trigger. But also there are people who are born with it. I always say once a cheater is always a cheater. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I will disagree. Yes. For example, have ever looked like what we call family trees? In a certain family, this is what they do. For example, in a certain family, all of them are drunkards. When you follow that family tree, you kill them to cheat. You know there are families that are born that way. So, whenever maybe you are not even a cheater, but because of your roots, you find yourself doing something that you're doing it unconsciously. In your family, you have uncles who have married, remarried. Yes. You find yourselves in the same pattern. So, there are people who do it aware and people who do it without knowing what they are doing. Unconsciousness. Like me, when I cheat, I am a cheater. Actually, such people, even if they have guilt, I do not even know how it happened. Situation of a cheater. Yeah, there are people who cheat. You cheat and you don't know how you cheated. The situation of a cheater. You cheat and you don't know how. It happens, Ram. What would you cheat? It happens. When you cheat, you are drunk. So drunk. Well, you are drunk. There is a trigger there. There is a trigger. But let me tell you something. I can say once a cheater is always a cheater, it is not always the best thing to term it as. Because cheating is normally a behavior. And a behavior can be unlearned as much as it is from the family. You can unlearn a behavior. If you are a person, you want to unlearn that behavior. Then how do you unlearn something you keep doing without knowing? First of all, you have to realize it. Yes, exactly. You have to know this is something that you keep on... It's an addiction. The people who are addicted to something, come and cheat. It can get into an addiction that... So once a cheater is always a cheater, you can unlearn that behavior. And how you can unlearn that behavior is once you realize your behavior. What are you doing as a person? Because Mimi... Let's say, for example, it's me and Emma. Yeah? Come and Mimi and cheat. Emma is in Yambi, Anthony. See, you change on the cheating and all that. Come and Mimi is in Yambi. You change on the behavior. And you can unlearn your behavior cheating. The willpower. Yes. Willpower? Yes. Okay. We are going to give different scenarios in this particular conversation. But from home, I want you to engage with us. Tell us, do you believe that once a cheater, always a cheater? Do you believe that you are a cheat? That there are some people who are just born into a family tree of cheaters? A family tree of people who are not faithful to their husband and their wives. So it is just in their bloodstream. And how do you come out of that? Then it means you should be understanding that he is cheating on me. So even if he or she is cheating on me, then you have to live with it. No, no, no, no, no, no. You cannot live with it. Because someone is cheating. It is in their stream. To be honest, all of us, we have come from different families. And all of us, there are things that happen to our families that other people have been doing. But you can make a deliberate decision to make a difference. It has to start from you. If you realize that there are some things that are not well in your family lineup, for example, like cheating, you can make a decision, I will never cheat in my relationships. I will never cheat in my marriage. If you come, for example, in a polygamist family, you can decide. I know maybe my father was my grandfather, my great grandfather, but I can decide to make a difference. So I would still go back to willpower. Are you willing to do it? Or just want to just sit down, relax and say, oh, this is what happens in our family. And you just move on. Now, I want to ask you this question, because you've said that there are some things that are not well in your family. I do not support tribalism. But within the same, same theory, you will realize that there are some people who say that this tribe, what Wahau, Iqabila, be cheat, what Iqabila or cohevi or cohevi, is that true? Is that also part of this conversation? Does it fit him that to say that a particular tribe is cannot be faithful? And when you take them to your parents, they will say, Iqabila, how is Ishinayo? I'll say Ram, that's a society mind. Because as much as I say my Iqabila is not a cheater, that's a society mind. Now, you as a person, maybe come and you will say, Iqabila, what are you doing as a person? Come on, you are Iqabila, and cheat. So, in this mind, true society, in some try, but Iqabila, Iqabila, is not a cheater, but it's about you changing that narrative, that mindset. You know they say that the lady is a good lady or the man is a good man, but the tribe that they come from, ah, I don't think they can make a good husband or a good wife. It's not true. It's not realistic. As I said, drum, cheating is a behavior. And what is the behavior of an empire? What do you do? Do you continue the same behavior? I think my point is simple. If you buy a sack of potatoes and one is rotten, will you remove the one that is rotten or will you throw away the whole sack of potatoes? The easiest way is just to remove the ones that are rotten. But the moment I remove the ones that are rotten, I cannot define that sack as a bad sack. These are bad potatoes. The same case when it comes to these tribes. I find it so childish when you judge a whole society because of one person. Or rather, when you have a bad experience, I think I have shared my story before with you. Simply because one man in my life cheated, it does not hinder me from getting married to another good man. Or rather, when you meet a bad person, it doesn't mean that every other man is a bad man. There are still good men out here. There are still good people out here. So, I cannot define a person because one person wronged me in this way. So, I assume now everybody else is a bad person. Okay, then let me ask this question. Does it mean that those who cheat are bad people? They are not bad people. They just have a challenge. It can maybe be low self-esteem. But actually, I have realized that many people who cheat, they have low self-esteem. So, they try to find some comfort out there. They believe like, if I go out there, I sleep with this woman. I sleep with this woman. I sleep with this woman. So, I commit a new lensay. There is that part of me with new lensay. So, most of them are low self-esteem. So, they are trying to prove something to themselves that they are actually bad people. Yes, me with new lensay. There is also the issue of anger and bitterness. For example, maybe one man hurt me so badly. So, it's like I'm trying to revenge to every man. So, it's like I'm trying to hurt someone, a man indirectly. Maybe he hurt me. I'm with you. So, I'll go and cheat so that I can hurt you back. Or maybe rather I can feel that fulfillment like, I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you. It's like what was done to me. So, there are some things that when you look back in our personal lives, you realize there are some triggers that will push someone to do the same thing. There is also the issue, I'll still go back to the issue of commitment. There are people who are not ready to commit. You find someone, they want to be with this girl. They want to be with this man. They want to be with this man. They don't want to commit to one person. But they're looking for something long lasting. But they don't know whether it is C in person A, B or C. So, they just be with all of them. No, there is what we call risk taking in relationships. That is a risk that they take in relationships. Let me tell you Ram, you will never know someone when you're dating. You know they say that those people are called Masharia. Masharia means someone who go looking, looking, looking. Like you're not finding, you're just Masharias. I've never known that. That's the meaning of that word in Kikuhu. Yes. Like when you're a tafuta, they're not sure of what they want. But you will never ever find something when you're not sure of what you want. First of all, you need to know what you want. And you can never get a hundred percent of what you want. For example, Ram, when you go to buy a suit, maybe you want a black suit. You find a navy blue one. I know I wanted a black one but this one also looks good. You end up buying the navy blue one. It doesn't mean that the other suit is bad. But you end up getting the one that favours you. And of course, we're giving you different scenarios. The reasons why people cheat. How do we solve this issue of self-esteem? Self-esteem. It has to come with you now. As a person, you don't have to have self-esteem. What do you do? Do you just stay with that issue? Do you seek help? Therapy. Therapy. Therapy. Because how can you deal with self-esteem if you do not seek therapy? Because it is to deal with self-esteem that you tend to have self-esteem because there are opinions from other ladies who have learned how good you are in bed, how you love them, good and all that. You have to have courage. But you as a person, you know what you're doing is not good. Because those people are cheating Ram. They know they're doing a bad thing. They know they're doing a bad thing. They know that their intentions are bad. They know that they're doing bad things. They love. Actually, Ram, people who cheat, they love their partner so much. They don't have any intentions of hurting their partners. That's why what you want to cheat, what attracts as much as possible, they know they love their partners. So they love their partner and they're still cheating on them? They're still cheating, but it's a challenge. Then why would you do something that you know would hurt your partner? It's a challenge, Ram. People are different at the end of the day, Ram. People are different. Because if you love somebody, you wouldn't do anything to hurt them. It can be the issue of bad company. Exactly. For example, we work together. When we go to work, maybe we go somewhere and have drinks. So, if you have a client, he has a client, I feel, for example, my mother feels, hey, I'm going to go to work, I'm going to have side chicks. Yeah, pressure. I don't know what I'm going to do. By the way, if you're going to work, you're going to eat later. You know, I'm going to work, you're going to drink your drinks. So, if you're going to work, you're going to be a company. It will also trigger that. If you're going to work, you're going to be a company. I want us to give yet another example here. Love. Love. Very fundamental, yet very complicated. Yes. There are people who cheat, and they will say that I no longer find love in our relationship. I no longer feel his love. I no longer feel her love. I feel like I'm in love with somebody else. But they cannot leave this relationship. So, they're cheating. Ramp. One thing, in your scenario, what was your intention before you started this relationship? Love. Exactly. But did you love this person? Because you love them and you want to spend the rest of your life with them. You want to commit yourself to them. Amma. You loved them. You love them. You know, Ramp, there's a difference between loving me for who I am and loving me because I have good looking face. Yes. I think when it comes to love in the relationships, love is not enough to sustain a relationship or marriage. Exactly. And it will never be enough. Relationships and marriages, it's about commitment. It's about purpose. It's about where you want to be. The visions you have. There is a place that comes. I have not gotten to that place yet but I have heard from maybe less than older couples say there's a place they reach in a relationship and there is not that love. Yes. But because there is a purpose, those people will still stick to each other. Yes. But you cannot say that I'm no longer loving this person so I feel like I will go to another person. That means even tomorrow the other person will still not love them will still go to another person. So love doesn't matter. But if you feel like that love is not there, it matters but if you feel it is not there anymore, be mature enough, sit your partner down. Communicate. This is what I am feeling. Communicate. Yes. But now if you don't communicate, whether limited, there are people who sit down, they talk and they agree. We are not working anymore. Yes. Now let's either make it an open relationship or take your route, I take my route and we are good. But now the moment to start solving it with your head, because now that is solving it with your head and your body, especially your private parts, that's now how you are solving that situation. It will never ever end up in a good situation. So if you solve a problem, not knowing that you are actually adding more problems. Do you know that song that says have you left the one you left me for? Now that's what happens. You leave this one, you go to this one, you leave this one, you go to this one. So it becomes a pattern, it becomes a behavior now. And now you become that person. I want us to go to Facebook and see what people are saying. Prince, king, king kid, Eduardo. People do cheat because of unsatisfactory stuff. HRH, Jonathan, Jonathan, cheating is scary. Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. Do unto you. When you, when you're a lady, most young ladies want to get a little bit of a fight. Ah! By the way. That's true. People who destroy the people's marriages are these young campus girls. Yeah. Sponsor. Spongebob. Marry a poor, and in some, there is not justification for cheating. I feel you. I feel you. People cheat because they want to, they want to. Like his origins in Jenga are the same and the V2, V2 that can be worked on. Yeah. Ah! Kavvok and Asama, ah! Thanks so much Kavvok, Pia, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, Kona, vision, commit, and everything. Even when that man is not there, you'll still stick to each other. I have a very practical example of a friend of mine who was left by the wife late last year. For the same issue, they got married when this girl was in campus. And when they were getting married, this lady was pregnant with another man's child. So the man who was responsible for the pregnancy dumped this lady. So this guy came, told her, I'm ready to take you in your pregnancy. They got married and they have been living well. They got another baby. So when COVID came, now this guy lost the job. Now he doesn't have money. You know what the chick did? She went back to the guy who had left her. And when the man came to us, the lady, why did you do this? The lady said, because you can no longer provide for us. Do you know what I told the man? That's a wicked woman. Because you cannot be with me when I can give you what you want. But when I need you to support me, now that's the point where you leave me. That's the problem that I have. So you can tell this marriage from day one, it was not about love. There was no commitment. There was no purpose. It was all about what can you offer me now when I'm in this need. Now that's why we come into what are your intentions. She was a person before you start this relationship. Do you love me because of the money I have? Or do you love me for who I am? If you love me for who I am, then you will be able to sustain me. One problem that we even have, even as media personalities, is you did something and you wonder, do they want to be with you because they see you on acting? Yes. They see you on TV because they think that you are going to be the next millionaire. Or do they want to be with you for who you are? I think when you meet a mature person, for example, before I got married, when guys were approaching me, the first question I would have asked someone, do you love Emma the Emma? Now the Emma at home without makeup, without the wig, with you know, Emma, just Emma at home. That is a different Emma. Do you love Emma on TV? Do you love Emma maybe in church? Or do you love Emma for who she is? And someone just keep quiet. They have no answer because many people, they look at how you look, the pocket that you come in. You know, I was sharing with my husband and I was telling him when people would approach me and you start with your profession, you start with the car you drive, why you live, that was the next for me. Like you come to approach me because like, ah, that was enough for me because I feel like you're trying to approach me because of what you have. But I want to know you. And that is the reason why I love my husband because the way he approached me, he came like someone who was just there. And that's why I loved him. I love that point. So I did not, I never wanted to hear someone approach me. The first thing you're approaching me is like trying to show me who you are. This is what I have. This is how much I earn. That was enough for me. And that's the mistake men make. When you get into, when you get to start a relationship on the first date, how you express yourself, the first impression really matters. If you, if you express yourself, I can take you to a big expensive restaurant. I can buy you this and that. Then from that day, that relationship, if the lady now decides to get into that relationship with, with the mindset, I think you have a relationship with a person. Come back, you are a man, you are two behind the scenes. Either you're going to be alone. You're trying to build expectations on this lady which are forced. Just be you. And actually that's low self-esteem. Yes. And because of all this, at the end of the day, they will cheat on you. Because you laid the wrong foundation. Yes. You gave them the wrong impression. They believed in what you have instead of believing in who you are. And at the end of the day, both of them are not even genuine. Exactly. Because you find the man, they are trying to, like me, actually the issue of low self-esteem. And I feel if I go being myself, this chick will not love me for who I am. Yes. Yes. Let me tell you. Yes. So now that's a bad mindset. And that's a lesson to every gentleman who is watching this show right now. Please when you approach a lady, the first day, the first day, the impressions, how you express yourself really matters. Matev, you show your lady you have all the money on the job behind the scenes, then you will build wrong impressions. So, I wish I knew. Sometimes by the day, I love someone to love you for who you are. I want to put into perspective these people, church people. People in church. Is that true? Society. Society. Different from people in church and people out here. Because people out here, they want to go to church. What do you mean by people? Society. Where is the same Ram? Who is out here and the same Ram who is in church? Church. Exactly. So whatever you do, whether you're out there, whether you're inside that building, it is your heart. Church doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter. It is your behavior, your character, your everything. If you are immoral, you are immoral. I want to say, man, church people are these good people. That's the wrong impression that we make. They're just human beings. If you say, a man of God, you start by man. Then of God. So, there is nothing like being in church. But it's only thing that in church, at least we can say we are being taught. But there are people who are not willing to take the teachings. I want to talk about this particular type of persons who also end up cheating in a way or the other. I believe it is cheating. I find a particular lady. I date her. But you see, I'm not a hundred percent in that particular relationship because I have a plan B. And I'm telling myself, if this relationship doesn't work, at least you're going to plan B. So, the lady will only come a week or two after the break-up and I'm going to tell her why, why, why, what's the plan B? One thing Ram, one thing I need to tell you on that, it happens. Actually, it's not happening to young people. One thing you need to know is, why should you break? Just to make it clear. Once, before you start any relationship, you know what? I think in this relationship, I don't think I'll commit myself into this. People do that. If you really know what you want in a lady, because if you know what you want, then that's the best thing. So, plan B is not good. Plan B is not good. The moment you do some good ideas. But I think that the moment you make it into a relationship, don't make it if. Just leave it. It will be so tough. I think that if you do that, you will take a risk. But just if they say. You enter there, you'll learn poli poli poli poli poli poli poli poli. And I'm telling, nobody has ever started a relationship like you are sure of where it is going. Yes. Unless they are angels. Okay, I don't know of any person. When you get into that relationship, other people, no matter what are we doing there, like, I don't know why this is going. But let's see why it is leading us. But again, after you say, let's see why it is leading us. Now you have to be committed. But the moment you have ifs, you will never even be committed to this one. To know whether it is, it is going to work or not. In case of anything, I'm moving. Let me talk about the ladies. Ladies have different types of men for different types of purposes, which is cheating technically. So you're. Those are immoral ones. There is a difference between love and lust. Exactly. So that is lust. That is not love. The ladies in exploration stage. Because. So that is actually a business transaction. Yes. I give you my body, you give me money for rent. I give you my body, you give me money for. That's a business relationship. Yeah, it's a business relationship. Actually, people don't love you. You know, when I ask for money, I ask for money. Let's call it prostitution. Exactly. But now a professional one. You're not going to. This is like a government. There are different ministries. It's a tender, actually. Nintendo. Nintendo. There is no romantic relationship in that. And it's going to work out. Internal affairs. Ministry of shopping. Ministry of salon and beauty. Of finance. I think, as much as you know what to do as a lady, you have to know what you're going to do. You have to know what's the end game. After you know what you're going to do, what's your end game? Why? You know what I'm saying Ram? Any person, I'm not going to say a shout, he will never leave his wife and come and marry you. In fact. In fact, don't do that. In fact, they give you conditions. Where is the camera? They will never marry you. They'll give you conditions. After 8 pm, don't call me. I'm with my wife. So, if you come to Sartatu, my friend, you will die alone. He will not even pick your calls. He will not help you. And when he's done with you, he will drop you and pick the next one that is a bit fresh. So, wherever you are, wherever at your own risk. What's the risk? You're going to die. You're going to die. Why do people cheat? Why do people in relationships cheat? Talk to us. That's like his power talk show. I want us to take a short break. At Ram Maguko, at Y254 channel, head over to Facebook. Our Facebook page is Y254. Like the page followers on Facebook and drop in your comment on the comment section. We will see a very interesting photo of the three of us. Of course, we look handsome and beautiful. And of course, you will see a poster there, comment there and then we will sample your feedback after this break. Why do people cheat? Let's take a short break. This is power talk. Imagine. All right. Thank you so much for keeping it power talk. This is the best place to be. My name is Ram Maguko. If at all you're just joining us, we're just done for the next conversation or the next part of this morning conversation right here on power talk. Well, I'm seeing so many comments here. Let me head over to Facebook. We are asking this question today. Why do people cheat? This is Hilda Gesheira. Hilda Gesheira Nassema. That some men naturally work your moka how to shake in a goat wife. Lassema, is it a goat wife or a good wife? You know, a goat wife. Lassema at, I'm ending up a goat wife. Some men naturally work your moka how to shake in a goat wife. Lassema at a Dionnesia. Who couldn't be there? I couldn't be there. Why? Who work a wengine? Steven Wakesa. And Nassema, what is disturbing many relationships and marriages, first lack of purpose to have the same biblically. Here, biblically, there should be no relationship that should not lead to marriage. Two wrong methods while looking for life partners. Wrong procedures, spiritually, socially, then physically. Then leads to wrong partners. Wrong relationships and marriages, thus influencing cheating. Why? That is Steven Wakesa. Prince Jay. Not all relationships lead to marriage. Lassema Evo. So Nikujichunga. Now, having a backup plan isn't a vice. Okay, so Nassema, having a backup plan is good. Ten patients are always there and anything can happen. You won't blame nature. Daniel Kisembe. And Nassema, but why is that, why is it that some guys cheat in their relationship, then come back to cry for the for the broken one? Yeah, there's a man who cheated. After they've cheated on you, what do you call a laugh on the Kulia? Aha. Sly purie. Hey, these comments are many and that they're coming in as even as I'm speaking. A sly purie and so on. Most of the times Wanahume do, most of the times Wanahume do you, do you cheat? The reason is, oh, most of the times Wanahume, I think you meant to say, most of the times Wanahume do, Wanahume do cheat. The reason is Kwanza, I keep at a Pesa, and as a Kujiringa, as if I do a Pesa, Nima'uwa, Huisha. Wairimu Juli, and I say my man cheats for a reason, but women for no reason. My goodness. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some, this is Mugura too, I will read the rest later, but let me read the last one. And I say my selfishness, you cheat because it's okay, because it's you, especially men. But when it's time to to even the scores, they can't take it no more. Men, when it's time to even the scores, stay strong like we have. They say when a woman cheats, you start googling how men control tears. How do you cook love men control tears? I don't google, because you'll have no idea. But there's a lady who I think I can agree with, when they say, there are people who don't know how to handle success. Can call it that. The people who don't know how to handle success, so what you do is you're going to be ashamed of it. You're going to be like bam, bam, bam. But the moment I'm going to get money, I'm going to have a car, I'm going to get some extra cash, now is when they realize, oh, so someone else can sit in this front seat. And Janet, you said, Yes. I mean I'm busy, go to wife. Thank you, Janet. Thank you. Hey, it's alarming, but there's so many comments. I want you to ensure that you tell us, keep talking to us. Go to Facebook, like our page on Y254, follow our page, comment on the comment session below, and we shall sample your feedback as you continue. There are two posts there, you have Pichaietu and there is a poster for today's show. So I want us to move and shift gears. Now, there are so many reasons why people cheat and we may not be able to highlight them all in this particular program. But I want to talk about this particular angle. What do you do when someone cheats on you? Do you leave them? Do you forgive them? What do you do when somebody cheats on you? On your Anthony? Ram, there are five things you can do when someone cheats on you. Number one, sit down with your partner and talk to your partner about whatever happened. And with that, you can involve a couple's counselor. You know Ram, you won't be able to, before you get into any relationship, and I keep on telling them, if you're in a relationship or even if you think of wanting to be in a relationship, before you step into a relationship, please seek couples therapy. It will help you build and realize some of those things. So number one, let's say, take time, talk to your partner, sit down and get to understand what made them cheat. So you talk to them and ask them why they cheated? Yes, the motivations. What motivated them? Women will have time to do that. What a liar! It will be, it will be chaotic. You won't do that alone. Do we do the third party, a neutral third party or a couple's counselor? You will have time to ask them maybe what did he told you? You have to ask them. If you're in a relationship, it will end up visually. But if you involve somebody, a neutral third party or you involve a couple's counselor, then it will be better. Another thing Ram, you need to ask your partner if he or she is ready to continue the relationship, because now there are people who cheat because they want to find a way out of the relationship. So ask your partner, do you want to continue this relationship? If yes, if yes, you can work on things, but it won't be easy. It is a decision you make. Do you want to work on the relationship? Do you want to continue the relationship? Work on things. But if highter work, then there is no need of lying to your partner that it will work and you know beside you won't. Number three, you need to ask yourself, can you trust your partner again? Because trust, once you break trust, could reveal that trust won't be easy. So are you ready to trust your partner again? If you're ready, then you will work on those things and align issues that made your partner cheat. But still you may not be able to... I don't think somebody may give a clear answer as to why they cheat. That they give a clear answer and say, babe, I cheated on you because of this. Will you be able to do that? I think out of my experience that I've gone through before, the moment you ask a man why do you cheat, the first thing they say, maybe I never meant it. Maybe it's not what you're thinking. Is that what Antoni said? What am I thinking? That's what Antoni said earlier. So I think there is... I have never seen a person who is brave enough to say, I think maybe we just see it in movies, but I've never seen a person who is brave enough to say, this is the reason why I cheated. But I believe as a mature person, you should sit your partner down and say, I did this and this because of this and this and this. For example, if you feel I am not satisfying you, maybe I'm not... I don't know how to cook well, maybe I'm not keeping your clothes clean, maybe I'm not giving you the attention that you want. The question would be, have you tried to talk to me before you made that decision? Many people, let me tell you, actually I think what is killing many marriages and relationships is lack of communication. Because you cannot just wake up and go and cheat. As a woman, if my man is cheating, definitely start seeing some signs. For example, if he was coming home at 8 p.m. after work, he will start coming at 9. At 9, yes. If maybe he would keep his phone just next to us when I see that he will start keeping his phone maybe upside down. Sometimes he will receive a call and go outside. So I start seeing some signs and then I start adding one plus one. Alright, I want to touch on yet another thing. Now, if you are the one being cheated on, does it mean that you are the bad one? Remember, I asked previously that if the cheater is the bad person, now I'm asking, the one who has been cheated on, do you call them the cheatee? Have they cheated us? Oh, cheatee. You get what I'm saying. Initially, I had asked if the cheater is the bad person. But now I'm asking, the person who has been cheated on, what if they are the bad person? Are they the bad person? If it's about cooking, why can't you change how you cook? If it's about any particular issue, what could be the problem with the person being cheated on? Are they an issue? But I think that I cannot know whether I have a challenge if you are not talking to me. Communicate. For example, if I cook food and you always eat, how will I ever know that the food has not been good? Exactly. So for you, you have to tell me, I don't like the way you cook. I don't like the way you talk to me. I don't like the way you behave. I don't like the way you talk to other people. It has to start from somewhere. But sometimes, ladies don't even communicate. You ask them, is there any problem? They say, I'm okay. Are you sure? Yes, I'm okay. But if you know your partner well, if you know your partner well, you can tell them that you are okay. You know. But I think also, as a mature person, you can tell this person something indirectly. For example, since you are now getting very emotional, you come and tell me, I don't like your food. Hey, I don't like it. Exactly. You don't like it. But now you can find a nice way of telling me, by the way, I love the way you have done this to Gali, but you can't communicate much better. You see now I'm going to communicate. Your message has been sent that the way I made this that day, was not good. But the way you have communicated it, it was nice. Yes. So, because you have a colleague at work, So communicate, Ram. If you're not communicating, communication is everything. Exactly. Communication is everything. But the problem with some of these people, when they are told the problem, they get angry. But then you have to communicate, Ram. Ram, come on, you have to communicate with them. You have to communicate with them. Some of them are very happy. Some of them are very happy. Some of them are very happy. I think you just need to look for a, for a nice way to communicate to your person. But then you have to say, there's nothing as pain if you come and talk to someone and you talk to them. You talk to them. Actually, if you want to get stressed, but if someone comes and sits down and talks to you, I really loved you. But because of this and this, and this and this, I feel like we are not working. Either the person being told, either say, can you give me a chance to work on this? Now, if not, they fail. I gave you a chance and you never proved yourself. But don't just wake up and make a decision by yourself. And then why would you think that cheating will solve the problem that you have at home? What if even the person you are cheating with has the same, same problem? Or even bigger, or different problems? Yes. Because I was equal to 100%. Exactly. I was equal to 100%. And we learn every day. Every single day. We learn every single day. You cannot clap and go and talk to your partner like that. You don't. We learn everything. Now, let me put also this into perspective. What do you do when you suspect your partner could be cheating on you? You don't know why they're cheating. But it's a suspect. This person could be cheating. One, the phone calls that they're having. There's a message that they're getting. For one reason or the other, I know somebody watching me from home, you know you've suspected that your partner could be cheating on you. What do you do? What I can say on that? How you can know is, now before we conclude, maybe it could be cheating. Maybe it could be a call or an injury. Maybe it could be something, how you, if you feel like come on a suspect and a cheat. Why don't you ask them? That's what I'm going to call them. I'm going to pick them up. I can act fishy, fishy. I can, at any time I'm going to go out. I just want to have a conversation. At any time, I'm going to smile and pick them up. I can say it's a business or whatever. Some of those things you can get from them. Am I right? I think there's a mistake I did. And I felt like I would have solved that problem. Interesting. I want to know this one. So, I think with the story I shared before. Yes. When I started seeing those signs that my partner was cheating, what I did, I hacked his phone. You hacked his phone? Yes. Don't ask me how I did it. How? So, anytime someone would send him a message, it would come to my email. Suddenly, when I work as an FBI, my friend will collect evidence. So, that's what I did. So, the more I was seeing what was happening, the more it was hurting. The more I got hurt. So, you believed that was a mistake. Yes. Because I felt I would have talked to him. Yes. It would have been less. You know the more you know the more... On the other side, I prefer knowing everything. Now, for me, actually that's what I can say. You know it didn't affect the idea. Because it was even what I was not supposed to know. Now, I want you to tell me this. When you suspect your partner is cheating, should you go through their phone? Is it okay that I met a Simu, I met a Kobafu, I met a Pa? Is it okay you just check their phone because some people know the passwords of their partner? I'm not because I'm not here. Is the phone... My Simu is your friend. Really? Yes. My friend? Yes. My friend is your friend. My Simu is your friend. I'm not saying that you're my friend. Can you not be my friend? That's why I'm saying this. I'm saying this. If you're my friend, I'm your friend. I think also, actually on what he's saying, it's a mindset. And I think we had that conversation here before. It's a mindset. The moment you make a comment, your partner is cheating. Yes. I took a message, Dear customer. You're dear. Actually, you start seeing things that are not even there. By then, you start seeing things that are not there. But for me, I believe when you're in a relationship, nothing should be a secret. Like my phone. I can open my phone. My husband can open my phone. Now, if you're saying nothing is a secret in a relationship, I want to ask you, if you ask for the password of their phone and your partner refuses to give you a password of their phone, is it a sign of cheating? Why am I asking for his password? He should just give me without asking. Exactly. Once you get into a relationship, you're the Ram. Once you get into a relationship and you're married, it's not about you. It's about you too. Yes. What? I'm Ram. I'm the size of my husband. I can live with him the whole day. Not unless he tells me. Emma, are you saying that our lady should never ask for the password of her phone? She'll never ask. She'll never ask. I've never asked. I've never asked. What I can say is, my husband is my husband. That's what I tend to disagree with. Let me tell you something Ram. In therapy, I get clients. Clients are not allowed to ask for the password. I suspect my partner is cheating. I ask them, why do you suspect your partner is cheating? You can send a message to a pop, to ask for the password. You can ask for the password. It's a sign of cheating. If a client asks for the password, I'll ask for the password. I'll ask for the password and I'll send messages. I'll ask them, how did that make you feel? Did it make you feel better or worse? What is the need of making you feel worse? You can send messages, but you can communicate with the client. That's what I'm asking. I've never asked for the password before. I want to ask you this question. If your partner asks you to give her the password, will you give her? I don't have a partner. I'm not a partner. I don't have a partner. You're not a partner. I'm not a partner. I'm not a partner. I'm not a pair. Oh. You're not a person. I'm not a partner. Okay. I'm not a partner. I'm not a partner. I'm sending the password. I'm not a partner. I'm not a pair. You can send me the password. I'm not a partner. Okay. If I was the one and I was suspecting you, you'd need us to go to the peace sheet. Yes. Why are you hiding your partner? Because I believe, let me tell you, if you're an open book, I think you should just be open. Who can open up a book halfway and not yet? My partner is business, and not in business. We are partners. If you can be partners in life, you can also be partners in business. So, is it okay? So, are you saying anybody who does not share their phone security details with you is cheating on you? No. It's suspicious of you. It's acting suspicious. For me, the problem would come in when I was in Kambie, I was told that I was cheating on you. I was told that I was cheating on you. The first thing they would do is look at you. Then they would look at your phone. I was told that I was cheating on you. But I was told that I was cheating on you. I was like this and I was like this. Now, I am safe. Let's do this. I want us to bring up their Facebook comments, what people are saying. So, they are so many. I am afraid we may not be able to read all of them. Now, this is Anjavan. Many people, especially ladies, especially ladies, this, that our relationship is built on money. I think that our relationship is built on money, fame and power. True relationships are built on love, commitment, trust. Once these are there, they will be full faithfulness. Bring it up. Some cheat because of peer pressure and show off, especially men. Yes, Subaru Boys. Subaru Boys? I remember when I was in high school, there was this guy. But actually, he was famous. There was this guy. I used to school with the brother to Ngangalito. You know the one who was in TPF. So, those days, in TPF, they called me Shika. The moment I saw him, I thought, I am the brother of Ngangalito. The day I saw him, I was talking. I said to myself, I am not talking. So, whatever you have is what will attract people. So, if you put fame as a priority, that is, you will attract people who love fame. If you put money as a security in getting your life partners and stuff, you will still attract them that love money. But if you are a committed person, if you are a person who has a vision and a purpose, you will always attract a person who has a vision and a purpose. Ramni, what is the problem? If a person has a vision and a purpose, who will you want to be with? Vision and purpose. Exactly. Because a person has a vision and a purpose will give you all that. Because I believe that if I have someone with a vision and a purpose, they will help me to get the money. Exactly. But not many people, they leave their vision and a purpose, and they go for money. By the way, many of the TBT pictures, many couples, celebrity couples, many of the TBT pictures, they are going to see. Those are people who saw purpose and visions in nature. Timur, later, on Facebook, we will take a time out, this is what I am talking about. Yes, yes. I will tell you, a man cheats for a reason, but women cheat for no reason, I will tell you about it in the summer. I want you to comment on that. Women cheat for no reason. I am just kidding. A woman with a relationship, she is married, she doesn't want to cheat. Maybe she will push her to the core, but she is just immoral. Simply. I agree. You agree? I agree. So, if a lady cheats, she has been pushed to the core, or she is just immoral. If she is pushed to the core, what will happen to her? I will tell you on Google. Yes. Lihanda Ahmeda, watching from Lorette, thank you so much Lihanda. I have no comments for this, because I am not in a relationship. Now, two years, two years later, I got him cheating on me with my best friend. Oh my dear. It happens. Let me talk about that. I was trying to touch on that later on, but let me just talk about it. Best friends. What's wrong with best friends? They cheat on you. You find your boyfriend with your own best friends. It's common among ladies. I don't know. I have not done much research, but I have seen, based on the findings I have seen, it is common among ladies. Ladies cheat on their best friend with their boyfriends. Why? As a woman. I don't know. Anthony. Ram, as I said before, it's not a story of best friends. It's not a story of best friends. It's not a story of best friends. Why then should you, as a lady, introduce me to your best friend? I don't see any good of you introducing me to your best friend. I don't see any good of you. But there should be no circle between the two of you. Exactly. But you don't know the intentions of the other lady. Not the man. It's not your man. It's the lady. As a lady, I have a best friend, and this is my boyfriend. That means this lady is in my life. This friend is in my life. But now, when it comes to a relationship, they are limits. Yes. You are my best friend, not my boyfriend's best friend. Yes. So there should be a limit. Yes. And also you, as a boyfriend, also you should also put some limit. How do you relate with this friend of mine? I want you to talk to your sister, Lihanda, watching you from El Loret, who's, who was, he got, he got him cheating on her with the best friend. Talk to your sister. What would you like? I think you're just giving my story, and what I can tell you, it's time to move on. Because you cannot just sit there, cry, because of when a relationship, not two years. Because someone cheated on you. Okay, but it's good to take time. Personally, I took almost three years to heal. The question should be, have you healed yet? Okay. Because when she goes to another relationship without healing, she will end up hurting the other person. Exactly. So take your time, heal, but if you feel your heal, move on. Move on. Yeah, just move on. But move on when you're ready. Nobody should pressure her. Just move on when you're ready. And today we're talking about cheating, and because of the interest of time, I'm afraid we may not be able to, we don't have much time on our hand. So I want to give each one of you a minute to have a final word. Why do people in relationships cheat? That is the question today we are asking. A final word from each one of you. Let me start with you Anthony. What I can tell you is, if you're in a relationship and you've cheated or you've been cheated on, just ask yourself, are you ready to continue with the relationship? Are you ready to trust again? And also if you're ready to trust again, are you ready to build something now, something that will belong last thing? And if you're the one who was cheated now, do you really want this relationship or are you just making excuses to be in this relationship? On social media, at official Antonin Jenga on Instagram, at Antonin Jenga on Facebook, Apokabisa. All right. Before I come to you, Emma, let me just touch on these people who have commented. Big thanks to Jeanette, Quarch, Bentley, Mugurethu, Brenny Branda, Hila Grisha, Racha Jose, DJ Boss Junior, Benson Amunga, Sly Puri, Banucho Manu, Manucho Doreen, Nelema, Mulevee Dawn, Ernie Gemma, S.P. Eddy, Annie Javan, Lihanda, Martha, Benson, Daniel Kisembem, Wairimu Juli, Daniel Kisembem, Steven Kesa, Prince Jay, New Ship. Thanks so much guys for your comments. Final word, Emma? Life has no rehearsal, so each day you waste, it is gone and it will never come back. So each opponent, you have to do the right thing, just do the right thing. Wrongs have never paid and two wrongs have never made a right. So if your partner is wrong, don't do the wrong thing. Instead look for the right thing to do and take the right path and always be conscious of what you are doing. And also before you do something, ask yourself how is it affecting the other person and also how will it affect you? What are the cons and the pros? But above all, always put comfort in everything that you do, especially in your marriages and in your relationships. Asana, Asana. Now, I want us to bring this conversation to a close. Wow, there are so many comments and I want to say that a big thank you to each and every one of you that gave your comments on Facebook. I'm not able to read all of them because there are so many, but I appreciate your feedback. Thank you so much for being part of this morning conversation. I would like to end this particular show with a quote. Bring it up, Timo. Most people cheat because they are paying more attention to what they're missing rather than what they have. Yes, 100% Wow, amazing. My name is Rahm Magukko. This is Power Talk.