 So now, the afternoon session, leader's dialogue will be starting. It will be modulated by Ms. Gida Fakurisan, very famous broadcaster journalist. So please, Ms. Gida Fakurisan, please have the floor, please. Thank you very much, Chairman Mori, for your very kind introduction. Welcome to everyone, and it is a great pleasure for me to be here today and serve as moderator in this panel discussion, which is the leader's dialogue. The focus over the next two hours will be on the future trends in ICT, the kinds of policies that are needed to meet those new trends and advancements in information communication technology, but also the challenges that will be faced in trying to track these developments and find the right regulatory policies as a response. So with the help of our very distinguished guests who are here with me on the stage today, we will address the way the public and private sectors can work together to achieve ICT-led sustainable development, because although we do talk about future trends, we always have to keep in mind that it is always against the backdrop of how ICT can help in fulfilling the recently agreed United Nations General Assembly Sustainable Development Goals, so the post-2015 development agenda. We'll be looking at various questions such as what is required of policymakers, in other words of governments at all levels, what is also required from regional, international organizations, regulators, and the private sector itself. What should the role of statistical offices be to ensure that reliable and relevant data is provided in real-term to the right players in order to devise the right policies? So there is a lot to discuss. We'll also be talking, of course, about all the technological advances surrounding 5G and the Internet of Things, what are the most effective policies and strategies, challenge opportunities, as I said, and what key approaches do we need to measure and capture these developments? So in essence, what we're trying to talk about today, and I hope we come out with forward-looking ideas, what we're trying to see is how we can widen the net of the information society so that it affects not just those of us in the more developed world, but also those among us who live in the more poor and remote areas of this planet. A lot to discuss over the next few hours, so I won't be saying very much more at this stage. I'll turn to our panelists who come from the public and private sectors who are also regulators, who represent governments and the private industry within the ICT sector. And as you can see, they also represent various parts of the world, so we are hoping that this discussion can be as wide and as representative of the world as possible. We also want it to be as interactive and dynamic as possible, so we will very much welcome your own input and questions as we go along. And if you're not with us here in Hiroshima, you can also follow the debate live through the WTIS-15 webcast, and in fact, you can also join the discussion by remote participation. So now on to our dialogue. Let me turn to Ariwan Harangshi, who is to my left. And Ms. Harangshi, let me just mention briefly that you have been the Secretary-General of the Asia-Pacific Telecommunity, APT, since early 2015. You worked previously as Deputy Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology in Thailand. You were also the Chairperson of the ASEAN Telecommunication and IT Services Sectoral Working Group. So you obviously bring a wealth of experience within your region. The APT was established in late... In 1979, in the late 70s, as an intergovernmental organization, I believe today it has 38 member states, in addition to other non-government member states and entities, which you will, of course, tell us about. But in essence, it serves as the focal point for ICT policy in the region. How challenging has your job been in trying to harmonize among all the various different countries? Yes, thank you. Let me start by... Thank you, the ITU and the Government of Japan for inviting me for this important forum. We call it Symposium. And not to waste the time for all about this. As you already mentioned, APT is an intergovernmental organization, but specifically in Asia-Pacific region. If you imagine in the world map from the left, from Iran, Afghanistan, up to the north in Mongolia, to Mongolia, and to the south of Asia, we pass India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, Nepal, I'm sorry if I cannot mention all the names, up to the east will be until Japan, Korea, China, and then 10 Asian countries, and Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific Island. Well, as you say, a very wide-ranging area. Yes. So just how difficult does it make your job to harmonize among them? If you travel from one country to the Pacific Island, very difficult, it takes so many days. But in terms of ICT development, this region also, the Asia-Pacific region has some of the top performers, and we think of Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, and some of the least developed countries and the least connected countries. As you mentioned, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh. Yes. How do rivalries hamper the efforts? That's the challenge. The PT has been established in 1979, but the number of the members, not 38 from the beginning. So until now, they are 38, but from the beginning, maybe around 15. So the number increased year by year. Actually, we have to thank ITU for the initiative of ITU and UNHCAP for thinking about to have this kind of organization in Asia-Pacific region in 1976. And after a few years, then the constitution has been ratified and then come to effect in 1979. And the main reason is to help organizations to coordinate the cooperation among these countries. But not only the country. We have the... In ITU, there are sector members, but in APTV, we use the word affiliate members. They are industry and state enterprise. But just what would you say is the main challenge that you face in a nutshell? Yes. What is the main challenge? The function, the cooperation including to have the regional voice in, for example, when you attend the World Conference. If you have one country, one voice, and then you want to convince all the... For ITU, you have 193 countries, member state. It's very difficult for one voice. So the ITU APT will play this role to collect the regional voice. But how? Because sometimes it's very difficult. When you mention about the work, we have the... Several years ago, the APT is very proud to produce one product. I can call product like a 700-MHz band plan. Later, I have been accept worldwide. But it doesn't mean that all APT members accept this. So we have to work on this. But at least we have to try to provide... If I'm not sure you are familiar with this, we have the... We call it common proposal when we attend the International Conference like ITU just past last month in World Radio Communication Conference. In APT region, we have the preparatory meeting. And we have to prepare the common proposal from the region which we can submit the common proposal. At least to be accepted by most countries to be common proposal. And we will talk a little bit more later in our discussion. But perhaps I can turn to Bazuki Yusuf Iskander now to look at what is going on at the national level and how easy or not it might be for countries to come up with the policies needed in order for regional organizations to do their work more effectively. Bazuki Yusuf Iskander is head of the ICT Research and Human Resources Development within the Ministry of Communications and Information Technology in Indonesia. And it's a post he's held since 2014. His agency is responsible for technical policy, formulation, program planning and implementation. So although you may have an easier job because it's just the one government and one country to deal with, the population is quite huge. 250 million people. And it should be noted a very young population as well with increasing demands for more investment in the ICT sector to meet the growing demand and also to be able to keep track with the trends and developments that are happening very fast in the Asian market and globally as well. How much is the ICT sector then a priority for your government? Thank you Gideon. I think it's a good question. Yes. Talking about the priority, how much is priority ICT given by our national level, starting from the introduction of the ICT because let's say in the year of 19 that ICT is considered a religious computer and connections, no more than this. But as ICT going fast and true and they can prove, ICT can prove they can be beneficial to our society to be better alive. And then the strategic thing, strategic importance of ICT getting higher, the awareness of the local government to introduce the ICT in the society is getting higher too. But again, as you mentioned Gideon, it's not easy to developing access, especially infrastructure in equity manner in Indonesia. So thanks that our collection is promoting private investment to invest in telecommunication. But is this kind of investment actually enough in making sure that you reach some of the 17,500 islands actually the more remote areas of Indonesia which are often as we know around the world somewhat left out. I mean, do you have enough investment? I mean, I would assume that today it's easier than to lay fiber optic cables but it's still very difficult, isn't it? Or not to increase the penetration in those areas both in internet and mobile services? Yes. So the first strategy is how to promote the private investment and also promoting the what we call public private policy to increase the capital for investment especially in the access infrastructure. So it's not easy because we have so many, so many islands that are really in remote areas that not even in ICT infrastructure but even in public utilities is still a problem like electricity and so on. So talking about the competition of budgets with the other modes of infrastructure such as public works, electricity and also water is against quite difficult for ICT to get enough budget. So that's why one strategy is how to promote private investment by promoting a conducive environment for investment. And one wonders if there's also a lot to be learned from other countries in the region that have done extremely well over the last few years. Seyong Kim is from Korea and vice president of the statistics information center of the Korea Association for ICT promotion which manages ICT policies in the Republic of Korea and produces ICT statistics as well. The Republic of Korea needless to say has ranked extremely high over the past few years doing so well in so many different categories when we look at the indicators of the ICT, ICT, the indices, sub indices essentially access and use and skills. How do you explain this incredible success and what does it boil down to in terms of specific ICT policies? Thank you. Thank you very much. Before I mentioned your question, thank you for government of Japan, especially MIC. This year is 70s anniversary between Japan and Korea diplomatic ties. And it is a great pleasure to join this symposium in Hiroshima, Japan. I think yesterday we visited Hiroshima atomic bomb dome. It happened in 1945, August 6. After five years later, Korean war was broken. From 1953, Korea destroyed everything. Until 1970s, Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. At that time per capita GDP is below 100 US dollars. Nowadays we are more than 300 times than 1970s. We have many reasons, but in my subject opinion, I think it's Korea, especially South Korea, does not have any natural resources including oils. We just only human capital. And then our people's eager for education for their children. And the government resolution is good for our development. We start modernization of IT since 1980s. The government decided, we just call it government initiated policy. Government set a goal. And then pilot test by institute. We establish a special institute for telecommunication. We just call ATRI, electronic and telecommunication research institute. And then we do not have any natural resources. ICT, fortunately ICT doesn't need any natural resources. So do you think that much of it boils down to what you have essentially created as an ICT culture and awareness among people? Do you feel that it's the ICT culture in the end that has really helped? It's not just what the government has done, but the fact that people realize the potential of ICT and have actually used it. Because the Korean people are very, the talent of Korean people, they are very interested in new things. And then fortunately we are good neighbor and good teacher for IT, Japan. Yesterday, it's just one hour fly to Seoul to here. It's almost domestic. But during the 1980s, I think I remember probably you know that during the 1980s, the only workmen was prevailed, the whole world. But the starting period, 1980s, we started to imitate Japanese style. We just call past follower, first follower. But nowadays we want to achieve first mover. Thank you. And we will have the opportunity to hear directly from several members of the ICT industry in Japan on this panel. But first, if I could move to the person to my left, Mr. Dragan Lucic from Croatia and talk a little bit about the situation there and within Europe. And also speak about something we haven't touched upon really so far, regulation. And I say this because you are president of the Council of the Croatian Regulatory Authority for Network Industries, HACOM, and member of the Board of Regulators, of the European Regulators for Electronic Communications. In other words, you have a lot of experience in regulation. You also worked for Ericsson for about 25 years. So how do both of these experiences within the private sector and as a regulator fit into the picture of what the ICT situation is like in Croatia, first of all, and then in the wider European region? Thank you, Ms. Moderator. And I would like to thank ITU in Japan for inviting me and giving me the opportunity to speak about this topic and also for the presentation of this event. Thank you for your question because when we speak about Europe, then mostly we assume that we have developed countries. But when we speak about digital gap, this digital gap is worldwide. It's in Europe. It's within European Union. And what is the most important, it's within each of our states, which are member states of the European Union. Technology is here. Working for private sector for one of the top vendor in the world for top operators in almost three decades, I learned a lot about telecommunications. But it's not probably technology. The problem is how to apply this technology and the goals that we have like in European Union like digital agenda 2020 are political goals. And those political goals are very challenging. When we speak about high dense Europe, is it urban? Is it South Korea? Is it Japan or Singapore or Europe? Services are there. High quality services is available to almost every citizen of the biggest cities in the world. But what about rural areas? And particularly speaking about Croatia, we speak about digital gap between rural areas and high dense urban. Croatia is a small country, 4.3 million, but with four major cities and with thousands of the small villages without neighbours for the new services, that's a challenge for us in Croatia. And by setting regulatory framework in the European Union level and also by applying this regulatory framework in Croatia, we are just beginning with the problem. The real problem is how to apply this technology and to enable to every citizen in Croatia to have the same access to the same quality of the service. And again, with all these new technologies, you say the Internet of Things and so on, you wonder if you have to also think differently in terms of the scope of, first of all, indicators that we look at to serve as benchmarks to track the progress of ICT within countries. It's interesting that you point out the digital divide in Europe between the rural and the urban areas, which is something that I think most people often don't think about. They think everyone in those countries is connected and quite well advanced. So differences within Europe, same regulatory framework or different? What needs to be the case? I think that regulatory framework should be the same, technology is the same, standards should be the same. But politics, how to apply this in every country should be different and should be applied and adapted to the conditions for each country. And that's exactly the challenge, not only for Croatia, but for all the member states appearing in Europe. But what would you take as the main criteria that it should be applied against? I think that people's satisfaction is the main criteria. We have statistics, which looks very good, but statistics are just a lot of data that can be presented in this or that way. But it's the most important that we have really fully satisfied end users and to enable this service to everybody if possible within the country. Let me now turn to Haume Salvat, who's the founder and partner of Agarros, a technology and business consultancy specialized in telecommunication and information systems. In a country we don't often talk about, Andorra. He has led several projects in the Middle East and North Africa region, in other parts of Europe as well, Asia, Latin America. And all of this related to the development of networks and broadband services, policy and regulations, strategic planning, development and implementation. I want to also mention that Mr. Salvat was previously the CEO of Andorra Telecommunication and was at the same time Andorra's regulator. It just strikes me as a very odd combination. How does an insider manage to regulate the industry? What have you learned from being within the industry that you could then apply as a regulator? Thank you very much. Well, this was paradise. It's a paradise to dream, at the same time the CEO of the telecom company and the regulator. But basically, the reason why is size matters. I mean, we don't have a magical regulation scheme that can apply everywhere. It's not the same thing as a developing country, that a developed country is not the same thing as a big country as a small country. And that depends on the policy. In our case, we did focus, not only in competition, because it didn't make much sense being in such a small country, but on services. What really mattered to us was the services. It's not by services, what I mean is not only the connectivity-based services, which means internet access, telephony, being mobile or fixed. It was about the experience of the user. That would make it a lot easier my job at the time. And when you look at future trends, what kinds of innovations need to be taken into account in terms of measuring the success of each country and tracking its progress? Well, there are a couple of things. In the regulation, we are living in the telecom world and the ICT world and the evolution is very fast. So policy and regulation need to keep pace of this evolution. What that means is probably the focus is not about competition only. Probably the focus is not about connectivity services only. It's about the end-user services, what really matters. And it's another thing that in most of the countries failed. The regulation has failed or the policy has failed in many, many places, not in Korea, but in some other ones, which is a digital divide. Basically, what I'm saying is that when you focus on competition only, the investments from the private sector will be in places where there is a return. So the leave, the non-economical, non-financial-oriented areas to the government, who by the way doesn't have the money to offer to the citizens that live in these places the same services or the same infrastructure they need or they require for having the same services in the big places. So just briefly, I mean, who fills the void when there's a situation like this where clearly private investors don't have the incentives to invest in the rural areas and the government doesn't have the money? Who fills in? Probably the regulation need to change a little bit. Need to take into account, need to incorporate into the equation the services. What I mean by that, I'll give you an example. If there is an operator that is really interested in investing in rural areas, they should have an advantage in the most populated areas. I know that the other ones will not be very happy because they will say it's not fair that they have an advantage, but the counter needs to define what is fair for them. In order to do that to attract the right investment, but it's possible to do it. What I mean by that is if we are not happy with the result and we want to make it different, we cannot continue doing the same because we are going to have the same result. Okay, well, let's put similar questions about regulation and the kinds of policies in place to Philipp Metzger to my right. He's the Director General of the Federal Office of Communications, OFCOM, of Switzerland, a post he's filled since early 2014. He was also previously Vice Director and Head of the Telecommunications Services Division of OFCOM. Also worth mentioning that Philipp Metzger worked for a while at ITU and was Deputy to the Director of the Development Office. So a lot of experience both at the national and more international levels. Going to OFCOM specifically and the experience in Switzerland that you were part of, looking at the fact that OFCOM relates to issues of regulation, national authority to ensure nationwide and affordable services to the population. The increasing liberalization of markets that we've seen over the last few years, the changing scope and nature of ICTs, how has all of that affected OFCOM's role? Can it still play the role of a neutral referee that we often thought of? Yes, thank you. It's a very good question. I would like to, before answering that, to thank the government of Japan as well as the ITU for organising this event and above all for taking into account the context. All of those who, like me, had the opportunity to participate in this peace programme and we've heard the testimony of what happened here in 1945 we certainly also saw the wider context in which we are located. Because when we are regulators, we are very quickly a specialist. We are very quickly someone who focuses on very technical aspects and I think it was encouraging to see this morning, this morning of ministers, this focus on the concrete benefits for citizens. I think it's an excellent setting in some way for what we are doing here today as well. And I would really like to thank the organisers for making this possible. Now, what concerns the question specifically, it's true that the dynamic of this market of information and communication technologies is enormous. It has completely changed the landscape in which we are located. It has created an ecosystem that didn't exist at all 20 years ago. We have really let go of the strength of competition which has given us a lot of advantages which of course also have given us a certain number of challenges and which are still going to challenge us in the future. And if I look at my authority, the Federal Office of Communication in Switzerland, it was created in 1992 as one of the last national agencies. It was rare that we created new offices in the Swiss Federal Administration and today, almost 25 years later, we have a method of functioning that is completely different. We really had a system to command, to control, to impose when we had very simple communication vectors. We all had a phone on our desk. That was about it, the telecom services that we had. And then after that, the competition exploded, which gave us all these new services, these new ecosystems. And in a system like that that becomes so complex as we live it today, we all, it is no longer possible to have an only linear, hierarchical approach. We have to be connected laterally. We have to involve the parties that take it. And I think that's what characterizes our work today. We will always be as regulators. We will always have to impose obligations. But I think the essential thing to last also for continuity and to attract investment that my colleague talked about, it is important that we are really something that I have difficulty translating in French, a multi-stakeholder environment. That's very important. As you talk about the Swiss experience, Switzerland being the focus of envy of much of the rest of the world in so many aspects, and people have this impression probably in large parts correct, you know, homogeneous society that for the most part has done very well, that you don't have so many communities that have been left behind, but putting on your more international hat from previous years as director of the, deputy director of the development office at ITU, what might be some of the things you learned and some of the lessons you might be able to impart to the more developing countries in terms of the challenges when it comes to regulatory frameworks. I mean, how important is it for them to have robust frameworks, and I don't mean that you should be lecturing anyone, but just in a positive way that can help us all understand what it requires. How important is it to provide a measure of independence, transparency and accountability, essentially, to regulators? Well, I think it's an important reservation that you make not lecturing anyone, because that's really the one thing I don't want to do, and I think we are all learning from each other on a daily basis, and of course there are certain notions that you see when you work in the field, you work with stakeholders that are absolutely key, and I think accountability, transparency, good governance are absolutely key in this respect. And I think we all have our challenges, because Switzerland is a small society, and if you have a very small society, of course, you have on the one hand quite an easy dialogue with the stakeholders, because people tend to know each other quite well. The communication channels are short. You have already an established system also, of course, in terms of political governance, in terms of democracy, but at the same time you will also have challenges in keeping the transparency, in keeping the powers separate, or keeping a system of checks and balances, and I think that will ultimately always be a fundament for any country, any society to offer to those who are innovating, those who are investing, and those who are ultimately bringing to us these information and communication technologies that will become even more important in the future, because we are now, I think my colleague from Indonesia said very well in his submission, we are in a post-information society age era, and that means that the digitization will go across, cut across all parts of our lives, and if we don't have a sound basis to have the proper digital infrastructures, that will enable furthermore the digitization of society, then we will lag behind, and I think that's key for all of us. And we should put them in place, presumably, before there is no more role for us to play with this increasing progress that is being made. I'd like to turn to a different part of the world, once again, to Japan's experience, and Mr. Tadashi Onodara, who's been the chairman of KDDI, one of Japan's leading telecommunications firms since 2005. He joined KDDI in the mid-80s just before Japan's telecoms market was deregulated, and we'll touch on this and see how it has affected the landscape. But can you first perhaps tell us about what the new challenges for Japan's ICT sector might be? Are there challenges? Because the rest of the world very much looks at Japan as at the very forefront of ICT technological advances. Are there more challenges for you, and how do you plan to meet them? Thank you, moderator. I'm in charge of mobile business from 1988, maybe. From the viewpoint of deregulation of telecommunication business in Japan, just started in 1985. So from the deregulation of telecommunication business, second carrier, third carrier, entered to the market. So Japanese telecommunication, especially mobile communication, penetration, increased so rapidly. So deregulation is one of the key points for telecommunication services. By the way, you said, what's next? It's a very big problem for us. And one of the key issues many people said, digitalization is a very, very important issue, not only for telecommunication businesses, but also for all businesses, I think. So digitalization started around the beginning of 2010 or so. But in telecommunication world, digitalization started more than 15 years ago, around the year 2000. So telecommunication is a digitalization leader of the world. So what's digitalization? I think the biggest issue is digitalization is anybody can transmit, can open up his opinion to the world, not in nation, to the world. And also, for example, small business guys can sell their product or their services, also for global basis. There are the biggest difference from the viewpoint of consumer customer. But from the business viewpoint, the other issue is digitalization, as many people said, IoT or another phenomenon will occur. Well, let me ask you about the other phenomenon, because as you say, part of opening up to the world and increasing our interconnectedness obviously has amazing opportunities and benefits for entire societies. But it also brings with it some pitfalls, doesn't it? And I'm thinking more specifically about what you think our concern should be, because I know you also have some experience as a member of Cyber Security Committee with the Japanese Business Federation. To what extent should we be concerned in terms of future trends about cybersecurity relating to national security, because more and more today across the world, the major powers you see are investing much more heavily in military intelligence and so on, directed at cyber warfare and defense. How concerned should we be about this trend? Cyber security is a very, very big issue, not only in Japan, globally. We think how about cybersecurity? My understanding and Japanese Council's understanding is we cannot protect totally from the cybersecurity. It means attacker or offense people have more than protect people's knowledge. So they create new method for attack or new scheme for attack. So how to find out such a new attack scheme? How do we protect ourselves? Impossible. Yes. So, not only in Japan, I think global such a protection, no, no, detection system should be needed and co-work each other. In Japan, for example, Telecom Isaac already started and telecommunication companies joined to this organization and if one carrier find out some problem in such a case, such information distributed to other carriers automatically, such a system should be need not only telecom carriers but also nationwide or global basis. It's my understanding. Okay, but for now going back to the more positive aspects of ICT development and from one of the most developed ICT nations to one of the least, I turn to my right and Antonio Correa, who is chairman of the National Communications Authority at the Ministry of Public Works, Transport and Communications in Timor-Leste. Timor-Leste being one of the 48 least developed countries in the world and which we all know also has gone through its fair share of traumatic history in the last few years. How have ICTs specifically helped Timor-Leste and its society in getting out of that kind of post-conflict situation? In other words, in the post-conflict recovery. Thank you, moderator. I would like to express my gratitude to the government of Japan and ITU. To answer this question, I will introduce first my intervention. But if I can ask you to just perhaps address the question and we can keep the discussion perhaps a bit more dynamic. As you know Timor-Leste is a small country with a population of just around 1.2 million. If you talk about LCD, by applying the JCME, it has the Unike Mobile Subscriber for about half of the mobile cellular subscription. We can infer at the end of 2014 our mobile cellular penetration rate stands at 54% with the monthly above of the LCD. In this context, the development of human skill is very easy key. So one of our regulators point is to refocus our new universal service access fund for a standing point service to prevent access, especially linking together with our university. On a more practical level though. Can you perhaps tell me and tell us a little bit more about what the government has been able to do because coming out of conflict, one of the key statements that were made is that you want the country, most of the country, to be connected to have good communication but that hasn't really been achieved in that you have only half the Timorese population of 1 million with access to mobile phones. Why hasn't there been more of a breakthrough? Has there been a lack of investment? What has been the main problem? We have our strategy to develop plan for 2030. Our first strategy is the liberalized telecommunication sector. Now we have three operators in Timorese. Timore Telecom, Telemore from Vietnam and Telecom from Indonesia. So the next step, our government has commitment to develop our summary cable. This is the next step after we leverage the liberalization of the telecommunication sector. We'll get back to more specifics but I will just quickly move now to another example in Japan before we get back to this. I'm looking for Mr. Onoe. Here again, if I may just say briefly that Mr. Onoe is Chief Technology Officer, Executive Vice President and Member of the Board of Directors at NTT Dokomo, Japan, holding that post since 2012. Prior to this, Mr. Onoe was Senior Vice President and Managing Director of the Research and Development Strategy Department. NTT Dokomo, the company you currently serve, has an incredible reach in that it reaches some 60 million customers. It is Japan's largest mobile service provider, operating high-quality 3G networks and also ultra-high-speed LTE network, which is supposed to reach some 98% of Japan's population, perhaps even 99%. How do you manage that? Just 1% of the population being left out. Thank you for your kind introduction of myself and my company, Dokomo. Yes, now Dokomo is getting better, and yes, truly the Dokomo LTE network is very good today. Actually, I checked the data speed here. It's over 770 mega-PPS here, and also we have almost 100% coverage, and we still operate 3G networks as well, but the data track volume itself over 90% track data generated through LTE. That's today's LTE. What do you see in terms of challenges when you look at the future trends that you see around Japan and the region itself? Actually, we have... Originally, we proposed LTE many years ago. We always start the next generation of technology development just after the launch of the previous generation, so we have a concrete plan for the network evolution for the LTE to LTE advance. Now, time for the 5G today. In terms of deregulation, because it's worth noting that the market in Japan, the ICT market, has been deregulated for many years now, and quite often what happens when deregulation takes place is you break up the monopoly practices and so you break up the big players, but then you've got a few new players that come on the scene that eventually get bought up by some of the bigger names on the market. But how does it still affect the competition and the efficiency of the telecommunications industry? Yeah, actually, already Onodera-san talked about some deregulation in the very early stage. From your experience, how do you see it? Yeah, that's from the MTT dogma side, a new entrant coming in competition. That was good for the whole industry, I believe, because today's LTE network's success point, I'd like to point out two things. One is that we have R&D, we proposed technology and led the standardization and deployment. Second point, competition. Competition for deployment for the LTE networks very severe competition. As a result, we deployed a lot of almost 100%. This is a very similar situation in Korea where also the competition is very heated. So, competition creates a new motivation to deploy to investment. But competition, I think, often also has an underlying main element, which is financial incentive for these types of companies. I want to get back to the point that Philip Metzger was making earlier, and to people, not just to bottom lines and numbers. How important is it to measure the social contributions that your successes can engender? Yeah, of course, Dogma is also... It's a very important challenge to provide social... to contribute to social society. We have a lot of activities for the social activities. For example, there's already some discussion about disasters. In Japan, there are a lot of disasters. To pretend the disasters and recovering from the disasters, that is a role of the operators, mobile carriers. We gave a lot of effort for those areas. Also some... In the morning session, some... Excellency said that some... no... brown people, ladies, said some inconvenient devices, smartphones, but to companies that we provide some... interviews for these such people. That's an example. Clearly it is making a lot of contributions to people's lives and empowering them in many aspects, including economically. Looking at the situation again, once more from a more global perspective, Stefan Schweinvest, director of the UN statistics division. In fact, Mr. Schweinvest has been with the UN for 26 years. I understand all in the statistics department. Must be more fun than I think, or some people tend to think statistics are. From a UN perspective, though, on a serious note, just how important is it on a practical level to have statistics for every country? And how do you make sure that these statistics actually make a difference? Well, thank you very much for the question. And thank you first to the government of Japan and to the ITU for inviting me here and for putting me on this leadership panel. So now I have it in writing that I'm a leader. I can show this to my family. They'll be happy. And thank you for inviting a statistician and a long-term statistician because we normally frighten people away and I'm trying to... The New York Times ran an article recently that statisticians are now among the top ten sexy professionals. I'm not sure I would go that far, but perhaps I can convince you today that it's not quite as boring as we usually seem to be. On your question, yes, I mean, I think it is extraordinarily important to have good information because we are collecting information from the 93 member states around the world. And one way of doing this is through standards. And this is a word that was often used here. And standards are really the bread and butter and quality control of my job. And it's not a straight jacket. It enables people actually to... I always say standards are a common language. Statistics is a language that allows us to relate experiences from one country to another. And it is very important, in particular in the current context where we have an ambitious development agenda, it is very important that we know where we are at the beginning, where we are going in the middle of it in case we need to fine-tune our policy interventions. And it's also an important tool to inform people and the citizens of a country because this is one way of holding everybody accountable, including us. I mean, the international organizations, are we putting our efforts in the right areas? Are we helping countries sufficiently to do what they want to do, what they need to do? I mean, it must be incredibly useful for countries to know how they're doing in order to progress. But there must be also a significant cost involved in countries undertaking the types of ICT studies and data gathering that are needed to put in your statistics files and so on. Do all the countries have the resources they need? And if not, do they have the help that they need? No, they don't. And if somebody has a big wallet here in the room, you can come and see me afterwards because getting... If a country can't do it. No, I mean, seriously, I mean, capacity development in terms of developing good statistics, not just any data, but good statistics that stand the test of time because I always say it is what we're really measuring is development. We are not taking snapshots at a particular point in time, but we really want to monitor development and one of the fundamental elements of that is that we have quality measurement systems in place that generate the same type of information over time. Only then we can make meaningful assessments, whether we are progressing in the right direction. Do countries have all the resources? No, they don't. And I mean, this is going to be a big challenge for my office for the next 15 years to support countries, not only from my office because we don't have the resources either, but to make the right connections. I mean, that donors and countries are connected. And it is also countries have resources within their own borders. There are partnerships. We have a lot of representatives here from the private sector and from civil society. They also have information that can be used in the context of monitoring of progress and some of that information is being generated not as a statistical process, but as a by-product of something else. And that information can be used if it is properly quality checked. Yes, quality and as you say, you need the resources to be able to produce that. Interesting to perhaps find out how much of a challenge that might represent to a region of the world that knows its fair share of financial economic difficulties beyond the other political problems that might be among and within some countries. I'm thinking of Africa, and it's probably fair to say that it is not specific just to Africa. Many regions of the world have certain countries that struggle to put together the budgets that they need for this type of activity, which as you say is extremely important. With that question to Mr. Abdul Karim Sumaila, who is the Secretary General of the African Telecommunications Union, ATU. He's been in that post since 2011. His mandate renewed in 2014. With your experience, Mr. Sumaila, trying to find common ground among African nations to come up with the types of ICT policies that are needed in order to lift everyone out of a certain situation, to empower them more financially, economically, socially. What would you say are the main problems that you face and how do you try to overcome them? Okay. Thank you, moderator. Let me join my voice to all the other colleagues to thank... If you could just speak closer into the mic, Mr. Sumaila, thanks. I think it's okay. Now, let me thank Japan, government and the ITU to invite us to this important forum or symposium where we think that all the ICT actors are here to interact and to change. And certainly, at the end, we're going to have some outcome that can help the development of ICT in the world and particularly in Africa. And I'm happy to see many delegates, many ministers from Africa coming here and to change and explain what they are facing in terms of the ICT development. I think if you look many statistics in Africa, you will see that regarding the penetration of the ICT, yes, we as Africa, we are at the bottom line in terms of the penetration. But however, we are one of the dynamic continent in terms of the movement of the ICT. So many challenges we are facing, you know, we have many challenges like mostly it's all in terms of investment. But however, I think we open our market and even if you listen to the minister speak here, most of the countries already put very strong regulation which can enable all the investors to come and invest in Africa and we will also take care of what many things, what many countries, many speakers say that about the disparity between not only the countries, but inside of the country we have many disparity regarding the rural area and the urban area. So I think our challenge today is how we are going to improve more internet access to the people especially in the rural area because we need access to the internet to improve many services like education, like water, like health. So I think there is no doubt that ICT in Africa will going to bring, they already bring but also improve the life and where you see some people speak about the banking, we are also one of the less developed countries where the banking in rural area does not exist. But now with ICT we try to improve this, we can change our, we can send money to our family you know Africa is very, very solid. We have a lot of solidarity I think is which where in general we have to, even more we think we are less developed countries but with this interaction of the family we have, we always try to stay together and also we develop each other so we help. And as you say there has been significant improvements that have been recorded in the African region but still the ITU in its report says that more action is needed to ensure that the least developed countries especially in Africa are fully integrated and included in the information society. In order to achieve that, if not next year within the next five years and we know that there is a very ambitious ITU Connect 2020 agenda in order to achieve that and in order to fulfill that vision of 90% of the world's rural countries connected what needs to happen, how much of it needs to happen from within, from African countries themselves or from outside, how much do you rely on outside help? I think in order to achieve all this we think what we recommend of most African countries is just to be sure that they set up a broadband strategy development. So when I say that because using this application of new technology like 3G, like 4G or like 5G I think this can help most of African countries to use this application facilitated by those technology because we know that 5G or 3G or 4G are going to support many applications and many services. This certainly is going to help many, many rural areas. And it certainly helps to have a clear strategy a clear vision for the region as a whole. Our final panelist before we open the floor to your questions and input is from Japan Kazunari Furugen senior vice president, member of the board and senior executive manager of corporate business headquarters of NTT West Japan. He is focused on the development of Japan's telecommunications industry over the last 15 years. You've also launched projects such as Japan's smart community and smart city to revitalize the more local areas within Japan such as Okinawa. Could you tell us a little bit about your personal practical experience revitalizing those areas? Thank you for inviting this meeting. And I can only speak English a little. I'd like to use the interpretation this time. Okay? Thank you very much. Thank you very much. You mentioned some of the older community and usually they tend to be a little more averse to technological advances and tapping into them. One word we didn't really mention very much today is e-commerce and I think the extent to which we all rely on it. In your projects, how much of what you do is based on this notion even in the rural areas are people getting more and more aware of what they can do with e-commerce and actually using it? Thank you very much. Thank you very much and on this note let me perhaps turn the questions and the floor to input from the audience. Please do ask whatever question you may have to our panelists. I would appreciate if you could be somewhat brief in your question and also directed to a specific member of our audience, of our panel. And I believe we do have microphones and I do see a hand that is raised in back. Please go ahead. Thank you very much. I'm Toshio Obie, Professor of the University of Japan at the ITU Academy member. I thank you for very fruitful discussions and I'd like to ask the issue on the social media. Social media is a personal communication but it's quite important in disaster as well as the political revolutions. And towards the 2020, how do you anticipate the future trend of social media like Twitter or Facebook or Lines and any other means to become more influential in the societies? How does the expert think about the difference between developing countries in the course? Thank you very much for the question to any of our panelists. I believe the issue of social media and how it can be used beneficially, social platforms that is Twitter, Facebook and the likes in order to better communicate and in order to not just connect the world simply on a geographical level but also to bring it closer in so many other respects. Any takers on this question? Philip Metzger perhaps. Well I think in a sense the jury is still out and I'm not sure there will ever be a clear conclusion. I think what we're seeing is new services, new types of services, some stay with us, others go away again, some become fashionable, others at some stage are more being questioned. Of course there are also questions of data privacy, of transportability of your own data that's on the social platforms. Clearly as a government and speaking about how you interact with the citizens, of course you have to ask yourself the question how you can reach the entire population, not just youngsters or senior citizens. And so in that sense I think demands are very high on us. I can speak from experience from OFCOM. We have introduced the use of Twitter quite recently, actually only about a year ago. Because you have to make sure you have the resources in place to then also manage it, to maintain the communication expectations that you raise. We have for instance concluded that for us as an authority Facebook would not be the right channel. And quite clearly there's of course an aspect when it comes to disaster relief, how we would embed also that technology to alert the population in case of a disaster. What we observe and I think that can also depend from one culture, from one country to the other but it's also a cultural aspect. You often may have to have a mix of let's say more legacy technologies, combining it with more modern technologies because you will not be able to reach everybody with the same channel at the same time. What is the picture like for example in Indonesia and then we'll get to Korea on this issue. You've got a very young population as we said they must tap hugely into this idea of social platforms. How does it innovate? How does it lead to more creative policies put in place and how do you use this massive information and data to again help sustainable development? Talking about social media I think is very important and also very relevant issue country because every country I think gets special problem on this issue because we have to realize that ICT or social media can be used in the productive like to promote innovation and creativity and on the side there are some counterproductive can raise in the social media. So what we can do right now is how first thing is to regulate, to promote, to impose regulation that to maintain how to use social media and ICT productively. But you're also talking about regulating the free flow of information. I know you're perhaps alluding to the spread of information that can lead to all sorts of things including radical ideologies being transmitted. Is that a major issue for Indonesia? To counter terrorism and also the child pornography and so on. We have a special regulation on that. But talking about this issue, regulation is not enough. We have to promote public education to use what we call healthy and healthy environment of internet users. In Korea do you find that regulation might be the key or does it also lead to the lack of freedom of speech? Can you regulate the kinds of messages that transpire? Professor Obi knows the answer because he's an expert for ICT not just only in Japan but also in the world. But I think it is inevitable to grow the importance of SNS because big data and IoT and 5G, new ICT technology will expand the use of SNS. And I think the function of SNS will reduce the digital divide by his suggestion. I think it's good for the instrument, good technology for reducing digital divide. But we have some problems in Korean case because my excellent mother president, Park Geun-hae, she stressed on IoT and big data and 3D printing last year. But however, we confront, we met a big hurdle, it's a privacy problem. We cannot overcome yet. I think as he mentioned, data privacy and data localization is another big issue for SNS, in my opinion. Thank you. Another question from the audience if we have one. Yes. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm Laila from Malaysia, MCMC regulator. I'm interested with the idea of the smart communities being implemented in Japan. We are also embarking over similar nature and we are just pioneering on our flood management system in one state in Malaysia. But I'm more interested to learn from Japan in terms of how do you collect maintaining database which should be current and real-time as you are seeing about the elderly as an example. And going forward, how can we also learn from Japan about the importance of the database needed and also open data of the government and the private sector? Thank you. Thank you for the question for our Japan panelists first on the smart societies and communities. Yes. Mr. Furugan. Thank you for your question. I think it's a very important question. In Japan, as I mentioned earlier, the smart communities are actually developed in villages and towns. In that case, the data of the residents or the services of the city and the towns are all provided on the cloud. For example, I'm thinking about the current security system, but from now on, I think it's actually a big issue for the protection of security. Of course, the issue of privacy and the protection of security from the outside are also protected by the residents and the private security information protected by the residents. Thank you very much indeed. And if I could just perhaps ask from the Andoran perspective, I know earlier there was the idea of we can also keep up with real-time monitoring of indicators. Do you want to perhaps add something to this discussion? Yes. Thank you. What my colleague mentioned, this is true. This is happening in the smart services world. One of the key elements of the smart services are just for transparency. So that means that someone collects data and I'll comment on the data and for giving to the residents and the residents of the city and the residents of the city and the residents of the city and the residents of the city and for giving to the public in a managed way, in a secure way. The thing is that in order to control the data that is analyzed and stored in real-time, the key point is not just storing any type of data. It's looking at the data you want to store. It's looking more into evidences in such a way that this data can be analyzed and can be brought online to the end user. And this is happening in some cities around the world that they have a big repository of data. The problem is to get the right data for the right services and offer them to the public. And that is also in relation with the previous question. I don't know how it's going to be the social media in the future, but for sure. If they depend on someone it's giving the data to the social media to publish. This is not going to work to control, but it's an official way of just having access to the data in relation with the emergencies that may happen around the world. It could be very useful. Multidimensional response needed on so many of these levels. Another question from the front, please. First, I would like to thank all the panelists and the moderator for this interesting engagement. I just want to write about this cybersecurity issue. It was already raised. And I also want to know the role of regulators in managing this cybersecurity. As you all know, this is a threat not for a single country. It's a global threat. And it's growing in alarming rate. In fact, you know, we are struggling to bridge this divide, but others are using it to destroy the globe. So I feel this is a global issue as well as a local one. But unless we, these regulators globally have come out with some formula, it will continue to be devastating in the world. Thank you for the question. Interesting with the breakdown of barriers across so many parts of the world and the increased globalization. What would you say, and I turn to a regulator next to me, might be the way to handle this issue if it is going to be a potential major pitfall of this increasing interconnectedness? Definitely. That is one of the major pitfalls. And the role of regulatory authority is quite a big, but not the sole one. So it's not only the national regulatory authority who should take care about it. It's also with some other institutions, some other intelligence services and most of all stakeholders on the market. So what we did in Croatia and what is also an opinion on the union level is that we have some recommendations. We set a lot of effort on the data privacy law and also data retention. But also we work a lot with the stakeholders. But I say stakeholders, it's not only telecom operators. It's not only end users. It's also banks. It's also some other institutions. And I think that synergy among all these players should achieve to the better protection of privacy, to the better security. And of course globally, it should be coordination among different organizations. But definitely for this pitfall, the role of national regulatory authority is very big. And as you say, it's an issue that doesn't stop at any one border that really transcends every region. Looking at the African experience with this, a very fine line to walk, Mr. Sumaila, would you agree between freedom of expression and safeguarding that, but also achieving national security for the wider populations? How do you do that? What you said is correct. But what I want to add is, regarding the Africa globally, I see the Excellency Minister is from HOPI, where the African Union is based. And we adopt what we call the African Union Convention on Cybersecurity. I think this role is just to say that all the African countries are involved together to fight about all cyber security, but also involve other world countries like European or US or all other countries. I think it's not only the regulation issue, but it's the global issue. Thank you. And in another part of the world, I mean the example of Timor-Leste, which is this very small countries, but again, you know, that is just next door to two major countries in terms of land mass, Australia and Indonesia. To what extent is this issue a priority for you, a concern? How do you handle it? To handle this security issue, the key is the multi-stick holder to solve this problem. Because this is very important for the new country. The key issue is the multi-stick holder. So this is my intervention, yeah. So specifically what kind of partners are we talking about? Partnerships. But they say for government, for the operator and for society. So to contribute for the cyber security. And civil society and NGOs. Another question perhaps from the audience. Yes. Thank you. Alishandar Bahabaza from the regional centre for studies on ICTs in Brazil. My question goes to Stephen from UNSD. You have mentioned that reliable and quality data production is a very expensive and complex process. Could you please give us UNSD perspectives on new alternative data source for official statistics production in order to lower the costs that you have mentioned involved in this process. And also if you could also give some insights on the main challenge to use those alternative data sources and how to engage policy makers in this production process. Thank you. Thank you for this question which is very critical for the future of our profession. And I noticed the way that the last question was formulated that I think it said some things how statisticians can remain relevant. And I was a bit afraid that I was entering the room here as a dinosaur and threatened of extinction here and I have to fight for my survival. No, I think we will have a very interesting debate tomorrow on big data. And I think in a nutshell I was very, very happy a couple of years ago it sounded like big data versus official data as if it were a football match and somebody could win and the other side could lose and they understood that there are certain degrees of complementarity. You will always need relatively expensive official statistics that have been produced according to an official process that people are also used to interpreting and knowing like a census or a GDP or something like that. But there are many, many areas where this can be complemented with new types of information and as I mentioned before the trick will be I think there is a lot of information somebody mentioned social media there is a lot of information and data out there the trick will be to distinguish the noise from the music and sometimes it's not as easy as something is bad and the other thing is good it also depends on the context obviously I mean if I am trying to design a 10 year health policy for a country I need very solid firm longitudinal data if I am fighting a health crisis and somebody sends me a tweet from a village and says there is a person that looks very sick to me I don't need official statistics I think I can react immediately so we have to also learn that data has to be fit for a particular purpose and there are different types of purposes for which different types of information will be necessary it's a very difficult process and we have to have an engagement with a lot of stakeholder communities to figure this all out but that's definitely the way to go in the future and just to prove to you that statisticians are not under threat of extinction and very much relevant to this whole discussion let me turn to Ariwan Harang what you get from statisticians offices in terms of information for you is actionable relevant up to date or do you feel that there needs to be a different set of information that comes to your desk for example or those of other governments dealing with ICTs in order to better meet the challenges of today and tomorrow and I don't mean to put you on the spot you're sitting too close to Mr. I don't want to get you in trouble but actually these statistics are very important but in the past maybe when I work for the ministry we have national statistics in the ministry so we have to use that statistic and then we don't have to talk about the old time the way they collect data but in recent year how to collect the statistics change and then that's why all policy makers and regulators need to use this for making decision or providing all important policy for the development of the country so you can see that now we have all technology including I heard my colleague from it the internet the topic actually for this session is about the challenge advanced technology talking about 5G internet of things is very important and we cannot avoid many speakers talking about the word internet of things talking about the issue connected connected now any objects can be connected and share information you mentioned sensor this share information need to be real time if not real time you cannot use and also you can transform and this is used to be it will be useful not only government of this regulator also industry as well need to be used this kind of thing actually for APT as an international organization we are not we don't collect information and not the organization to produce this statistic but we use to discuss in many area apart from the coordinate for regional voice we also provide the forum to discuss policy and regulatory issue and for the ICT development and also other issue even in disaster management cyber security communication capacity building the forum program we also talk about how to how to use this make use of this and many speaker or expert during that session also mention about this especially this internet of thing but how can we we develop on this how to have that data on the especially the sensor for the internet of thing I'm not sure whether we have that we have collect this kind of information on the sensor massive information being collected anything to add before we give the floor to another question in that sense I mean the ICT is of course a very big friend of statistics data we process data we disseminate data and all of these sub processes information technology is critically important they have been experiments even with sensors to be conducted over the internet in Singapore things will revolutionize but I mean there are some fundamental principles and for instance privacy protection of the individual is one that is extraordinary important and that is very ingrained in our work on that we will have to safeguard forever a bit of a paradoxical situation that adds to the challenges perhaps another question yes please I'm from Bangladesh Bureau of statistics and my question actually is to director UNSD and regarding the measurement challenge many servers are conducted paper based many are electronic devices like tab so in many cases it is seen that in the same area same time two agencies are conducting the same survey but they are coming up with different results results are inconsistent and so on part of UNSD is there any such plan or is it possible to formulate a common standardization for the data collection during service so that we can minimize the inconsistency actually any common standard for data collection method thank you and under the process more efficient absolutely critical question and I mean we had a national survey capability program a couple of years ago we are reviving it because I mean surveys will become will be critically important still for the next 15 years to monitor the impact of policies towards the 2030 development agenda so yes I mean there are international guidelines on surveys but I think one of the underlying question that is also there are two issues here one is the one of methodology and I think that can be easily standardized and we are working on that but there is also an issue of national information coordination because sometimes there are various institutions within a country that are collecting information and overlapping areas and I think we need to become smarter as nations and at global level to make better use of the existing information and share it and avoid the kind of inconsistencies that you were mentioning and just to touch on another issue before we go back to the floor the issue of regulatory frameworks that are currently in place to meet these ongoing trends in ICT how much do we have to change the current way things are done in the sense are there enough legal mandates political frameworks that are in place that safeguard the level of independence and transparency that is needed in other words how much distance as a regulator do you have to put between yourself and not just the government which quite often you rely on for as a source of funding but also with the private sector and the industry itself I mean how much of a catch 22 situation is it and how do you strategize in order to achieve the best kind of regulation for people Well I think on the one hand there is the institutional aspect so how formally speaking a regulator is independent in government and can really act independently has also got the financial means that are secured for a certain period of time and then there is regulatory practice I for myself I don't accept any lunches from anybody from the industry for instance and so I think of course there is there has to be also a culture of objectivity of neutrality in the sense of also judicial independence because many of these regulatory authorities take decisions that are subject to legal review and of course the normal administrative legal proceedings will then apply but I think an additional factor that I believe will become more important going forward is stemming from convergence we have today sectoral regulators in many different fields that dealing with ICT of course telecoms but also media regulators frequency adjudicators etc and with convergence we see that even also from a political perspective there is sometimes a claim that there should be super regulators combining all the different substance areas because of a cross cutting view and so I think that if you have a two segmented approach you may not see the context and you may not see challenges that are interlinked and so I think we will get to a point where that has to be seriously addressed I know countries today that already have fully converged regulators and completely in that sense reflect also what's going on in the electronic communications world they have single legal acts dealing with everything across the board it also depends on the legal culture and on the political culture I think ultimately we're always in a process I believe that information society or post information society is ultimately always in evolution of course you call it the digital revolution but ultimately you can't do it without the people which we've said today and so I think there is always a process and an aspect of evolution in this and for some it's faster and for others it takes more time when it comes to this or do we have to take into account also the local environment the cultural dimensions definitely I mean when you speak about the world there are so many different habits and cultural behaving and also within even a unique regulatory framework like for the European Union and 28 states still there is a space and must be space within this regulatory very strict regulatory framework for some national practical differences and that's something what each country within the European Parliament try to achieve and especially when we speak about privacy there is also something about this heritage and should be taken into consideration definitely and we'll take perhaps just one or two more questions before we hear final concluding remarks from the panelists my name is Leonardo, I'm from Brazil from the National Authority for Public Communications and I'd like to ask the representative of Philip Matisse there's a clear gap between data traffic which grows exponentially and revenues of traditional telecom operators centrally the market has a challenge to better monetize data to do with this scenario that requires more and more investment but I'd like to ask what are the new regulatory tools needed to do with this new framework with this new scenario preserving competitive environment preserving the competitive environment regulating and keeping the competitive edge of this market I think big data is across the board a big issue and I think nobody really has cracked it yet how to exactly tackle it in my own experience in our experience also in Switzerland we have traditionally a rather distant approach to regulation we haven't been the first ones to come up with regulatory authorities with regulatory frameworks I think there is sort of some underlying sentiment also in politics that you shouldn't overdo it I myself may have had a different view on certain telecom regulation aspects seven years ago for instance than I have today because experience has shown that it is quite easy to commit regulatory mistakes so I think we need a step-by-step approach there as well we need a process and an ongoing dialogue and sometimes things will need to mature before they are ripe for a political or a regulatory decision especially when it comes also to the aspect of data flows I think it's tricky to close in a sense the dynamics too quickly and then there is a regulation on the other hand we have a number of challenges which then will also emerge through the political processes mostly that will have to be tackled data security privacy and so on but overall I wouldn't over rush it in approaching regulation I would rather tend to have a close interaction a multi-stakeholder dialogue which also would allow you to react that needs to be changed Do we have another question? Yes My question will go to the jurisdictions that are considered to be more developed in terms of the synergy that needs to be achieved between policy, regulation then the trends with which ICT move, the speed at which they move is there something like synergy really because we realise that we need an enabling environment which comes from the policies and regulations and the trends which are really moving so fast so how do we really strike a balance and now we have even the measurements which are on this other side so is there something that we can call synergy between the three because the trends seem to be leaving these other guidelines that are really dependent on them so that we actually keep the trends in ICTs moving our development goals as we also like really maintain our frameworks and the trends that we are looking at What specific reforms are needed is this a question from Let's go briefly I hope some other colleagues will also maybe have something to add because right now we are actually undergoing a process in Switzerland where we are reviewing we have an information society strategy and we are reviewing that and also that particular exercise is thinking what would be the information or the post-information society we would like to hear from the real world and what came out quite clearly out of that review is that the threats and risks have been overemphasised so far we have had a strategy which was very much trying to keep everything controlled maybe things you can't necessarily always control and the potential of the information society of digitisation and of big data by the way going forward hasn't really been focused on enough so I think the interaction will always be there I also think there will be depending on events, particular events that can trigger reactions it can go into one direction or the other sometimes you can over-regulate sometimes you can not do enough if you wait too long if you compare ourselves with the financial industry sector it was a very free system suddenly banking regulation became a major issue for all governments and I wouldn't I would say we're in a similar situation there so this you call it synergies but ultimately I think it's about stakeholders acting together each and one of them assuming its role civil society pointing out to decision makers what they think is necessary or where they think they're being hampered, constrained of course industry feels like that but ultimately I think we're all in the same boat again and that process therefore is something that will go on I think forever let me get the perspective of Mr. Sumaila in Africa for example what would you say and again quite briefly might be the main reform that you might call for in terms of regulation to in the end be able to give people the consumers what they need both in terms of coverage and affordability would you call for specific reforms or term limits sets for regulators for putting more distance between them and other stakeholders that might have some undue influence on them what would you think is the way forward thank you I think what I want to say is just regulation is not that regulator come speed as the service or speeding no I think the regulation just would be flexible understanding service and see how this service can be provide to the people without changing the regulation role anytime that new service come we have to change you know I think this is not the kind of regulation that we need we need just the regulation to be more dynamic and to follow the service and it be very important for especially African people that we don't have to kill any innovation but any specifics specifically for example we would come for example on service like sending money or when it started in Kenya I think with this vision of the Kenya regulator what they accept this service at the beginning I know it's not easy but after most of world learn about this service under the bank we're happy with this service so I think it's very important to leave service coming and also to accept innovation because obviously we're not going to solve the whole situation here one final question I think from the floor or two if we have time some of the major drivers of fast expansion network expansions are the cost of core material or core equipment in any country and also the time it takes to have that equipment land now drawing lessons from Korea that they build their wealth from manufacturing I wanted to know what their advice is in perhaps installing manufacturing plants in the emerging market which is Africa so that these networks can expand very quickly I'm looking at five but specifically and also take time it takes to construct passive infrastructure which are mass if I am to roll out 600 are we serious when we say we have to provide broadband by 2020 thank you how do you provide the right infrastructure and how can you help in this debate since Korea is so far advanced I don't know the situation I think the Korean government especially MSIP Ministry of Science and ICT and future planning they operate program which invite some African countries and Southeast Asian countries to catch up the Korean model and then I think it's maybe if you made us we will give correct answer and then frankly speaking I don't know the Jimbabwe case just a final question thank you very much if you want to monitor the progress of the world society toward connect 2020 agenda we should monitor ICT uptake and access and also we should monitor the impact of ICT environmental impact of ICT and also monitor the role of ICT as a driver for innovation and also monitor the level of innovation in the world I wanted to know what are the existing experiences in monitoring the level of innovation and the role of ICT as a driver of innovation in existing countries because we have too much experience in measuring the ICT access and uptake there are many indicators and experiences but what are the existing experiences in measuring the environmental impacts of ICT and also role of ICT as a driver for innovation Mr. Onodaire is that a question you might take or Mr. Onwae just imparting certain lessons and ideas that can help from a country that obviously has a lot of experience in this my understanding is it depends on the countries or regions background in each region in each country totally differ What's the fit for such a country or a region, I don't know. So we discuss more and more what's the background of the innovation of the ICT. It depends on region or country, I think. Mr. Enhue, any thoughts on this, or does every country have to deal with the ICT situation based on their own set of experiences and environment? Mr. Enhue, just a few thoughts on this. Yes, of course we have different areas. In some cases, different services have to be customized to each region. Some modifications needed. Then some players, such players already exist. And also some areas, we have common innovation strategies we have. Yes, but you know, that is based on the business-based activities. So I don't know, today we have a kind of indicator to express that. I don't know, but we are now very active to create new innovations. In any case, it's a partnership among so many different players. I go against what I just said a moment ago and take one final question simply because I failed to see a hand that was raised about 15 minutes ago. It's a very final question from the representative from Congo. I will speak in French. I am Mr. Henry Numbi from the Democratic Republic of Congo. I work as a statistician and head of the market for mobile phones. My question is mainly addressed to Mr. Sumaila. And directly to the suppliers, manufacturers of mobile phones or terminals. Because among, when I followed Mr. Sumaila, among the list of solutions for development and penetration rate in our African countries, there is mainly the development of infrastructures. And more mainly for the wider bands, so to try to develop the most possible national infrastructures, the wider band, to allow even rural residents to access the wide-band services. But the problem that arises is the cost of the terminal. We can manage to build the entire network, as it is necessary. We arrive in rural areas, people are unable to get the phone. My reflection is to find out if there can be a collaboration between governments or companies that will work in countries related to work in collaboration with the manufacturers of terminals to present them the specific needs and to be able to manufacture smartphones that can be purchased at a lower cost in certain areas. For example, we have penetrations where, globally, it is 100%, but on the 100%, there are only 20 that can access the wide-band services, 20% and 80%, not just low-end services. Can we manufacture smartphones? Thank you. I think we pretty much got the essence of the question. Mr. Sumaila, here again on the spot, finally, to give us an idea and a very concrete set of ideas hopefully on what can be done as you heard in the question. What kind of partnerships need to be put in place? What kind of certain plans and projects can you envisage that might help those rural areas get better access, keeping in mind the cost that is needed in order to improve the infrastructure, not to say also the political impediments that might be there. Thank you. I want to answer in French, because I understand the question of the representative of Congo. In fact, I think that the cost is not especially at the level of the equipment that the cost is generated in Africa. The cost is generated in Africa, especially at the level of the service. I think that's the most important thing. And the most important thing for rural areas is that the state comes in subvention to provide these services in the rural world with what we call the universal fund. I think that many countries have adopted this strategy. And this is the only way for me to reduce the cost of services in rural areas. This is the state intervention, but not at the level of the equipment. Thank you. Thank you very much. And as we said earlier, we're going to reserve the last few minutes for final thoughts, remarks from all of our panelists. And I would ask you all to keep in mind that we are trying to work towards that post-2015 development agenda. What do you see as specific issues that need to be tackled as we look forward when it comes to your countries specifically and the region in general? Mr. Basuki, I start with you. Thank you. Yeah, we live in the era of rapid technological progress. And of course, the new technology, the new incoming technology is of much superiority compared to existing technology. But of course, it also creates some problems. Just like in my country, we are starting thinking about the 5G, but against our population still, mostly 70% using the 2G. So right now we are trying to promote the 4G as a trial. Again, what I mean is besides some advantage of new technology, they are creating some problem, some issues. That is more beyond the issue of infrastructure, but also problem of social development to make them prepare, to make our society prepare for the new incoming technology. So in the future, social development is becoming the central issue in my country. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Seon Kim, Kyon Kim, are you satisfied or Korean satisfied of where they are when it comes to ICT development in the country? I mean, you seem to really have excelled. Is there more room for improvement? What will you be focusing on in the next few years to remain one of the leaders really in the industry? Thank you for your last question. This is for advertisement. 2018 Winter Olympic will be held in Gangwon province, Korea. This place, my honorable excellency, Vice Minister of MSIP of Korea, Choi Jae-yoo, attend this symposium. We will show the 5G during the 2018 Winter Olympic seasons in Korea. As you probably know, Korea is the first nation to launch 4G, long-term evolution in the world, and then we are ready to show the 5G during the 2018 Winter Olympics. That's all. Thank you very much. Mr. Salvat, what would you like to see tackled in the next few years when it comes to making progress at the national, regional, international levels? Probably the key thing for me is that technology is not the name of the game now. The name of the game is about citizen needs and companies' needs that needs to be translated into technology problems. And the whole industry and the government needs to move into that direction because the real benefit of these ICT is the services that can be used but all citizens in the country, no companies in the country. Thank you very much. Mr. Sumaila, I move on to you and ask you finally how optimistic you might be looking into a glass into the future when it comes to ICT and its progress within Africa itself. Yes, of course, Madam. I am very optimistic. But I think that our role, we have a lot of work to do. So why did I say that? Because up to now, there are areas that are not yet covered with the signal of the heart. The first objective is to ensure that there is total coverage in every African country. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Antonio Correa, what for you needs to happen in the next few years to bring those people within your own country, Timor-Leste, out of poverty to get them more connected, to bridge the divide between the rural, urban areas and also the gender divide which we didn't talk about very much today? I think this is an important issue. This is a capacity building for our people. This is very important to transform the society and the digital society. And I will leave the message for this conference. As a leader, I want to say that the future is bright. Let us work together to create it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Mr. Metzger, your final thoughts. Well, I think the first challenge will be to maintain a competitive environment that will always give us the same degree of quality in our infrastructure, of technology, of communication information that we have today. But it is never easy to maintain that. And I think the real challenge, in fact it is the same as my neighbor, Timor-Leste, is to become a real digital society. Because today in Switzerland, we have a challenge, on the one hand, concerning the digital services of the government. We are not very strong. We have to make a lot of progress. Of course, we have a federal system that does not always make it very easy. And the second point is also to become more active in the search for benefits in the economy and in the digital life. We have an innovation that is important. We have basic digital infrastructures that are good. But we have bad again in Switzerland and I think in Europe in general to have the benefits and to remove the benefits of this digitization and I think that will be a great challenge in the future. Thank you very much. Mr. Lucech, what do you see as the biggest deficit as we move forward? I mean, when you want to try and achieve in the next few years this all-inclusive information society, if it is possible at all in the next few years, what would you say we have missed so far in terms of governments, private, public sector, NGO, civil society, regulators, just all of us put together, what have we missed? What should we do differently? I see the solution in the way of the true information society, digital society. We have already a technical solution. We have a globalization. What we are still missing is a particular national interest and interest of our domestic people in our countries. So raising the awareness. Stefan Schreinvest, how do we make statisticians work relevant into the future and raise awareness among people to create the kind of society we all look for? You know, I think one thing that has bothered me for many years was when you come to countries and there is no information, there is no information. But I mean, sometimes you come to places and there is a lot of information and it's not properly connected with each other or it's not properly connected to the use. So I think a very low-hanging fruit for the next couple of years is really to bring various information systems, official, statistical, geospatial, other types of information in a country, in the countries and in the world really together and bring them to the right users and connect them to the policy decision making. I mean, a friend of mine once said the problem is not a technical one. We are not talking about technical interoperability. It's mostly about human interoperability. That's a very interesting point, which leads me to Eriwan Harongshi. What do you see as a challenge in this sense? I mean, we're all talking about how better connected we are. But how efficient are we at using this huge, massive data at our disposal? I just mentioned before this round about the sensor. Actually, I just told him that because the Internet of Things, we have to connect any object and also to share information and also real-time. Then this is the new technique to have information in real-time being used. But it costs a lot to have sensor for every object. Anyway, so the challenge also comes in the same conclusion. It's about the budget for doing anything. That's why when I heard the gentleman from Congo mention about how to provide the telecom services to the rural area, actually there are many ways to share information. Talking about sharing information, everything, information of best practices and also sharing information about failure. It can be done bilaterally or multilaterally to try to get. And for this problem, some countries may use and then it's also many talking about this. I'm not sure whether you have already learned about the universal service obligation, universal service fund. Actually, this is the obligation for the government, the policymaker and regulator to provide this service to all over the country. Not maybe not the same standard, but at least to be able to connect to all the country. So regulator have collected the fee from the operator. An operator can also discuss about how to provide the necessary service. That's why we call universal service obligation. Yes, as you say, an interconnected sense of responsibility among so many players. So that's Shion Odera. Some people have mentioned the issue of cost and budget. Obviously, Japan doesn't have this issue. You've got the budget. You've got the skills. You've got the willpower to keep pushing and keep advancing into ICT and cyberspace and so on. For you, what might be the challenge? I mean, is there much more that you need to do? What do you need to tackle first as a priority? It's my personal understanding. Telecommunication world was something like a closed world. But the digital revolution already started. In digital revolution world, open innovation will be most important issue. It means not only within telecommunication world, but also we should co-work or co-communicate other industries more and more. It's our obligation, I think. If digital revolution take off, in such a case, telecommunication standard will not be sufficient. So we should co-work with another industry more and more. It's my opinion. Thank you, Mr. Seiza Onoe. Your thoughts about how we take this issue forward, ICT, at a national level, but also globally. What would you expect to see happen in the next few years in terms of major innovations? What would you like to see happen? Yes, of course. For the next few years, 5G is the key point. Also, I was impressed with the morning session, the Zimbabwe Excellencies Statement, and also some questions from African countries. 5G is not just a rich system. 5G needs to meet a wide variety of requirements. Of course, we seek some performance enhancement. At the same time, we need some cheaper and low-power consumption targeting for the IoT use cases. But I'm very sorry that today I can't provide any solution to deploy broadband in African countries, rural areas. So I'm very sorry. But we should need to continue the discussion. And also, 5G alone cannot resolve that issue. Previous generation, all generation technology are relatively getting the cost decreasing. So some combinations may provide some solution. But today I don't have any solution. I'm very sorry about that. Thank you. I mean, your set of experiences have been very beneficial. Mr. Furuguen, finally, what do you think would be the right strategies, priorities for projects like yours, which really aim to do what I think this is all about, to lift those people who haven't got the kind of ICT infrastructure around them into the fold? Do we have the right priorities in order to achieve that? That's a very difficult and important theme. I'd like to give you an example. As I mentioned, smart towns are not only in Japan, but also in each country. There have been a lot of discussions, but I think one of the themes was the question of the total cost of the smart towns, or the total cost of the entire city. I think that's one of the themes. I think that's one of the themes. I think that we can say that the smart towns provide services to the residents, and that they provide services to the local community, and that they provide the ICT infrastructure. I think that if these three can be properly managed, it won't be possible. And lastly, the cost of the residents is not plus-alpha. The cost of the residents being paid and the cost of education is reduced by using ICT. I think that it will be even more plus-alpha in the smart towns that provide less cost of ICT. I think that's one of the themes. Thank you very much, Mr. Furugan. On this note, allow me to thank you all for having joined us in this discussion. You heard some wonderful ideas about this being an ongoing process, obviously, to regulate with specific attention to divergent different ICT cultures, obviously, that we all live within the importance of statistics in tracking progress and how to tackle some of the future challenges as well as opportunities. Allow me to thank all of the panelists on your behalf, and on behalf of the organizers, I thank you all very much for being here with us. Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. So the combination of panelists among regulators and statisticians and international organizations and business managers and the coordination by moderator, Ms. Gida Fakri, created a unique and dynamic discussion. Once again, please applaud the panelists and the moderator. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Now, I have three notices. One, WTIS-15 quiz. The deadline is 4 o'clock. 30 minutes are left. Please leave your questionnaire, your answer as the registration office. This is the number one. Number two, exhibitions. We have three exhibitions. The one, the first one is alongside the corridor of this hall. The next one is alongside the room between this hall. And the third one, you may not know. The outside of this hotel, there is a exhibition, small exhibition, but this is a real demonstration of ICT disaster prevention systems which the ministers from the Philippines mentioned earlier in the morning. So, in addition to two exhibition places, please visit the exhibition just outside of the entrance of this hotel. This is the number two notices. Number three, coffee break will be waiting for you. Hiroshima Confectionery and Hiroshima Cakes will be there. And those confectionery may not appear tomorrow. And coffee break, 30 minutes. So, next session will start at quarter past four. So, at quarter past four, we'll gather together. Thank you very much.