 And then I give the floor to Siegfried. Yes, so welcome to our session on four years of OER info. I am my name is Siegfried Fahre, and I work at the DIPF. This is the Leibniz Institute of Research and Information and Education in Frankfurt, Germany, and I am the project coordinator of OER info. And we are very happy here to discuss with you our experiences and our learnings in the four year journey we did with funding of OER in Germany. I will give you a brief overview of our talking parents and by that I will introduce my fellow panelists. This is how OER info came into being, which is presented by Jan Moymann from the University Library Center of North Rhine Westphalia situated in Cologne. Maybe Jan you can give us a big wave, so we know where you are. Everybody. And then I will just give you a brief overview on our goal strategies and the architecture of our OER info project. And then I will give the word to Gabi Fahrenkruck of the agency, Juran on Constantin. She will tell us about working with the OER community in the OER info project. And Juran himself of the same agency will introduce us to the OER camps and the networking he did in the OER sphere. Then Daniel, then again Jan will tell us and give us an insight into connecting OER policies. And Daniel Otto of the University of Duisburg-Essen will follow with an outline of our transfer strategies. Then I will talk about our information tasks, mainly our OER portal, and that will it it as you can see OER info is a joint effort by many organizations and diverse educational fields and how different initiatives were molded to one big project OER info Jan will tell us now. Yes, exactly. So I'm going to give you a very brief history of OER info and Siegut already mentioned that I will today especially speak about a policy perspective and so that's not completely true for the history I'm going to give you now. And but I will try to focus a little bit on on the policy perspective here and I'm also trying to focus a little bit on the pre history of OER info because when I reflected on presenting the history of OER info, especially from a policy point I thought that the pre history might have been perhaps even more interesting than the history of the project itself. So I'm going back actually to 2011 and I identified two starting points for for OER info and and it's quite interesting to see that one was a big scandal, which was triggered by the publishers who tried to survey teachers in Germany with software and this cost quite a lot of resistance on the side of of the teachers and out of this came a movement of teachers who who thought about how can we handle resources better and how can we avoid being surveyed by by publishers when doing our job. And so this was actually, I guess the starting point for the bottom up movement in Germany. And at the same time, and we saw 2012, the UNESCO World Congress and the declaration on the we are, which was obviously more button top down approach. So two things came together so that we had a very luckily I would say coincidence of forces coming from bottom up and from top down and declaring. And as far as the World Congress is concerned I would like to remember Fred Mulder who had a saying at that where is Germany because Germany was missing at the at the World Congress, and this was distributed into Germany and so there was a perceived lack of presence and and so I think policy made makers had the feeling of not being a had enough and and having forgotten something, and they tried to to catch up with with movement in other countries. And I think this I mentioned this because I think it's something which worked out for policy making and it might be something like a strategy which could be used to motivate policymakers in other countries. So after this, we saw four years face of discussion. And, and this is quite interesting as well became because also you can see here, impulses came from from many different institutions and and we had, after the UNESCO Congress, the starting of experts hearing by the Federal Ministry of Education. And, and there were several other others following by it so experts were being invited and and the topic was discussed. In 2013, we saw the EU initiative opening up education, which brought new impulses from from another multinational institution I already mentioned UNESCO. Additionally, there was the EU and also the OECD, which all was pointing into the direction of our medication. And so I think that that germ policy making felt forced to to get deeper into this topic. And so there were initially three studies funded on on OER I think one was of the international situation. And the second one was on legal aspects and the third one was on a meter data which is quite interesting because it's a specialist topic which was very addressed early in Germany. And, and I think it's it's characteristic for we are info that there has been somehow a strong focus on on on national infrastructure from beginning on. In 2013 we saw the first OER conferences, and this was connected to a bar camp. You're on had already started bar camping back in 2012. So this is actually the origin of the bigger point, big part of the bottom up movement which was being supported by the bar camps. And so 2013 we saw the first conference, which was provided and run by the media at that time, which was another important player who pushed the topic and and there were much discussions going on on these conferences and so this I guess was another important thing to build up pressure and proceed with the understanding of the very complex topic of open education open educational resources. In, I think it was 2014 we saw the announcement of the Hamburg open online university so there came individual states doing first lighthouse projects on OER and announcing getting into the topic so things started to get into practice. And then politically it was quite interesting that the topic was addressed to a rather low hierarchy working group which consisted of members of the federal ministry and the Kultus minister conference which is the representation of the states. And so it was a little bit out of focus and under the radar, and they really provided very good very good work and provided a very good short but good report and which, which recommended the introduction of OER. So and this actually, so you could you switch the slide please. This actually led us to the, to the core funding line, which started 2016 with the phase one and and we had two pillars of these funding line. The one was a central information site which is OER info and then probably some of you know it. And the other one was to 26 train the trainers project so we had a very broad approach focusing on capacity building on on building up personal capacity to handle we are, and this I think was quite important to see that it happened in in every educational sector so so one special thing about OER info is that it addressed all at the educational sectors. And so there was a little bit of preparation there, and the first phase ended by the end of 2018 so there were I think some few of these train the trainer projects, which proceeded a little bit longer but but to simplify you can say and of 2018 is the end of phase one. And then the project was continued but only for the OER info information site so and and also for for jointly which which another project coming out of phase one, which supported community building, but these train the trainers project have not been continued in phase two. And yes, maybe you have already heard it but I can say it right now here and introduce it as an important information. OER info is currently not being continued. So they, I think there are still being discussions going on on how the project can be continued, but it's a quite interesting thing to see that despite many successes which we will see in the presentation here. And there's currently no decision to continue this work and I think it's something which which depends on the. Yeah, if you're dealing with policy making you have to to accept that there are many irrational things taking place and that things are not going planfully and rationally as you hope, sometimes. And with this I'm coming to the end of the short history of all your info and give a give back to see good. Thank you. And as Jan pointed out, the situation in Germany before 2016 was that the subject matter of OER was far from being implemented in educational practice, and this was practically the goal of OER info to, yeah, to accelerate the uptake of OER in all educational sectors. To achieve this goal, we developed a strategy that consists basically of three pillars. The first one is information. As Jan mentioned before at the core of OER info is the OER info platform, which provides different groups of audiences with information on OER. We have information on licensing and on finding OER on how to produce a worksheet, etc. The information is presented in very different formats as text and video and audio and the entire content is of course under CC licenses and can be used in other contexts. Basically, this is meant to help others help themselves as a means of getting to know more about OER. Then the next pillar is the transfer pillar. That means basically that transfer of know-how into different educators via workshops and events. Daniel will talk about this in a moment. And third, the networking, which itself can be maybe divided into networking community and policy. The networking is taking into account different stakeholders to bring together early adopters, OER experts and of course an interested audience in formats such as barcams. Joran will talk about that. And then we have the community work targeted at activists and leaders and OER doers mainly via social media. And third, of course, is advancing OER by knowing what's going on. So the collection of all kinds of information and we collect all kinds of information and try to weaponize them so to speak for policymaking. This is the third strand, which is basically done by Jan and the OER world map. The OER info architecture, Jan just talked about it briefly, consisted of two faces, one from 2016 and 2018 and the second one from 2018 up until now. Seven institutions are at the heart of the project, working closely together, implementing the strategy. So come from different backgrounds and five of them are here. The institution addressing vocational training and the institution addressing adult education and the institution that addresses the schools are not here today, but we're trying to talk about their experiences as well. So I think our strong suit is working across educational fields and doing both addressing target audiences such as teachers, but also fostering intersectional exchange. We also have to network and initiatives the OER camps, which will hear in a moment from your own and the initiative jointly, which is about community building but also it's a big platform that provides OER coaches with materials. And from 2016 to 2018, 23 individual projects were also funded with the aim of capacity building in different institutions like universities or among teachers. And this entire program is funded by the Federal Ministry of Education and research and as Jan already told the sad news where info ends at the end of December. And we are looking for means to continue the project or at least continue the website. We are very hopeful still hopeful that we can achieve this and we are in for care will continue to exist. And as a secret, there's a question from a Roberts. Could you say a little bit more about why the OER info will not be continued. Is there a clear reason for that. There are several reasons for it. And one is, as you're pointed out, in Germany, the education system is quite complicated you have the Federal Ministry, which cannot really target schools, but can work on a, yeah, on a rather general level or general level. And then you have the ministries of education in the States, and they basically have the power on what's going on in education. And those two sections are always fighting or not really working together. You can have good examples of that during the corona crisis. And, and they could not you know, they can't be united on the subject of OER. So, the federal government, which is our side, the something and now the states are doing other projects in all we are so this is I guess is one. One reason why we are it's not continue to be continued at this point. And then another reason is the corona crisis. The federal government is very much preoccupied on dealing with it and unfortunately we could not make them see that OER is a solution or a motor or very big part in in solving the crisis but for them it's just a subject on top, and where it's no personal resources or no money resources to deal with it just right now. And Robert, you suggested there's too much grassroots. I cannot say that for my point of view. I would not say that this is is is one of the reasons why it's not funded, because in the or info project. The building server where I work and also the FV we are on and the, the, the vocation training and the adult train we are all institutions of the government so and no really grassroots organization and Yeah, well, I think so think the broadness of our education sector is rather an asset than hindrance. Yeah, well, and we still think that there might be funding to come. Okay, I will give over to Gabi. Hi, I'm going to find hope for from your and a consultant and we've been working for. I've been working for the OER info blog editorials team since the launch of information to tell OER. And, and as we have already heard from secret. The aim of the project was to build a web platform around the topic of OER and the task of the blog editorial team was to compile knowledge about OER for the community and to support the exchange of expertise within the community. To ensure a sustained and broad visibility of OER and to create a contact point for the German OER community via this platform. A few facts and figures about our work may help you to get an overview. Jörn had already been operating the predecessor of OER info, the OER transfer stelle since 2014. And therefore when OER was launched there was already some content on which we could build. Since 2016 we have been producing and publishing this content and these formats for OER info. It was more than 500 blog posts, 44 podcasts, over 180 videos, mainly interviews and explanatory videos and then web talks, newsletters and so on. The content in the blog was accompanied by articles in the social media channels of OER info. On Twitter and Facebook, for example, we referred to the blog post. For this purpose and also for the exchange of information among the OER community, the hashtag OERDE was introduced at the beginning of OER info project. The hashtag refers specifically to German speaking world and it is intended for community exchange discussions, announcements and questions on all aspects of OER. Right now the hashtag OERDE is well established and widely used. In order to achieve the project objectives it was necessary to present the current state of knowledge on OER and the German speaking world, but also internationally. This and we provided ongoing reporting on current issues on fundamental questions and we also reported from international conferences such as the OER global. The aim was to present the diversity of the various initiatives and approaches and thus to support an exchange between the initiatives. We presented the various OER projects, their respective objectives and also introduced the people behind the projects. So much for what we have done over the past four years. In regard to the project goals I can say that with constant and up-to-date reporting with media partnership of the OER comes which Jörgen will talk about later. And with the fact that we have provided many different formats, we've been able to reach a great many people with the topic of OER. The information stelle OER is perceived in the educational landscape as a contact point, even though much more work is needed to make OER mainstream at some point. We have created a central contact point for the community which should be further developed in the next step I think. With the information stelle OER where to be continued at some point in the future, I believe that the few information service should be supplemented by an advice center for questions and issues relating to OER. And this brings me to the question of what could have gone differently or what could possibly be done even better in the future. Well, it has been shown that full of information such as that provided by OER info is well suited for getting started. However, when specific questions about open materials, creative comments license or other topics need to be clarified, people often do not know who to turn to. There are a lot of contact points that offer advice and concrete assistance on OER. In the best case, the information stelle OER should have been help center. For example, by referring to experts or by pointing out the places on the internet, which could offer answers to respective questions. I know that OER librarians are already active in some libraries, but some universities in Germany also have coordinators for the topic of OER. So it would be conceivable to have a scenario where there is a contact point for questions within the information stelle OER. OER could then pass these to onto libraries or universities where OER experts work and who could who would then help with specific questions. Well, have the objectives set for the community being achieved? I'm not sure. Since providing advising and information on OER as an ongoing task, the question does not seem to me very helpful. But yes, because it's true that OER info has brought together knowledge on OER, has supported the exchange of expertise and has ensured that the topic has a lasting and broad public visibility. And the contact point for the Germans speaking OER community was also created, but the provision of advice and information on the range of OER topics should be an ongoing task. But what remains of it now that financial support has ended and it is completely open whether OER info can be revived and at some point in the future. Without a permanent information stelle OER, all effects will fizzle out. Even if the website remains available on the web, much of its content will soon be outdated, I think. So, that was my part. Thank you. And now I hand over to Joran, who talks about the networking aspect of about four years of OER camps. Joran, muted Joran. Okay, so I'll try to give you a five minute version of the OER camps in Germany. For anyone who's interested in not only the five minute and the bright version, there's a recording of a talk I had earlier with a 25 minute version on the OER camps. I share the link with you on the chat in five minutes from now. Okay, I brought you mainly pictures from OER camps. So this is how it looks like this is one picture from the first OER camp in Bremen in 2012. And it was mainly about people coming together because there were not such a thing as a community until then. So in Bremen in 2012, I think it was maybe 70 people and that was probably like 90% of all the people interested in OER in Germany at this time. And it was just thinking when when Jan was talking about that he just arrived from Paris, I remember, and gave us the insights from the UNESCO point of view. And for all of you who do not know about the bar camp idea, the OER camp. So this is a bar camp. So it's about people coming together and sharing their own questions and their own experiences. So this is a picture from the last in real life event we had earlier this year in Hamburg. And I really like the picture because it's very much about what bar camps often look like. So it's very much sharing and talking to each other and working on your own questions and even your own resources. So the bar camp begins with the people coming together in a plenary session and I don't know if you can see it at the end of the room there are people lining up. This is normally the first hour of a bar camp. Everyone who wants to provide a session which is bar camp language for a workshop lines up and steps forward and says I want to provide a session on this topic on this question and it's not unusual to only have a question. I look forward and I say, Hey, my name is you and I'm currently working on this question and I'm looking for other individuals in this room interested in the same question and then it's not about finding many as many people as possible but finding the people with the same question. So this is what the schedule then looks like. We have parallel sessions and rooms and it takes as much rooms as there are people providing a session so it's really a simple format it's not rocket science but it really is helpful when you have a group with at least I would say a third of people experienced in the field so that they can at least bring in their own questions and their own thoughts it's not a format only for 100% newcomers to the format. So the sessions then can look like this looks like drinking coffee and it's pretty much about drinking coffee but with a common question. It can be more than three people so this is also a very typical picture from a bar camp people sitting in a circle and discussing a question. It's also okay to to tell people more about your own projects about your own experiences so it's also okay to to have a hands on workshop people and I know this is somewhat tinkering around workshop I don't know what was about. Or even lecturing people so this is one of the great pioneers of open licensing in Germany power climp I think his work on the problems problems with the NC license is has been translated into 20 languages, something like this. But it's also always the idea of people coming together to share their thoughts and their questions. I also brought you some numbers and figures on the OER camp only one slide because it's only the five minute version. So, in the last eight years we had 25 events so far at the beginning before there was the public funding we had like one event per year and it was very, I don't know, in a circle or hard core. So the core of the community event. We could broaden these circles so that people interested in OER but not so much that they would go to Bremen for a three day event are coming together. We had like an at the end about five or six events per year, more than 3200 participants. Those participants were the ones doing 480 sessions so we differentiate between the sessions and the workshops the workshops are formats that we pre plan so like in a normal conference. And we also mix the format of a bar camp with other more traditional formats like workshops. And I think one goal that was really important to me is that we, which always more than 50% newcomers in the last two years even 75% newcomers per event. And that's also a crucial number when it comes to how many old timers you need an event to continue the growth of a community. There are some spin offs so we learned that many people were at least as much interested in the format of learning because it's a format of open education. And so we provided all the materials, the resources that we developed for organizing OER camps as openly licensed resources. We published a book and had trainings on how to OER camps so when the funding now will finish. We hope that there will be some water sustainability because people learned how to organize their own OER camps or their own bar camps. I skipped the times of COVID-19 because it's not too exciting that we did online bar camps or online events and webinar series. This is one last chart I want to present you because it's really typical for OER camps. This was the question we had when we evaluated the bar camp participants, and we asked them which field of education would you assign yourself to. And you see that it's really, really a broad distribution so it's approximately around the same size for school, higher education and further education. And it's important to know that these people were visiting the same event so it was not an OER camp for school or not an OER camp for higher education. But these people were coming together in the same events and sharing across the sector of borders. And of course they could have their sessions and they could say I have a session specific on, I don't know, early childhood education resources. But I think it was an asset that they were sharing their experiences over these more traditional borders. Yes, should ring in a minute for now. I like the idea of Siegfried being like like our anchor woman. So I'll give back to Siegfried. What is Jan again? Jan, yes. Sorry, I muted, I was muted twice. And I hope you can hear me. I'm missing now a picture which I implemented on the slide by maybe it wasn't an earlier version. And so why I'm speaking here about policymaking is that we had the OER policy, the OER world map implemented in OER info and policymaking is a quite complex topic and it's connected to control of systems. And I think it can be understood or it has similarities with the steering process. And I think that the OER world map has been implemented into the OER info project was another quite typical and characteristic thing of the OER info project. There was an approach of thinking about how all these activities could be quantified and summarized in order to support political goal making and seeing and go control. There's a monitoring aspect connected, which comes in with the OER world map. And I think that the interesting thing is that we, by the way, published two major summaries of the work in OER info and about the data we collected for OER info, which are summarized and available. I will post the links just in a moment. These publications have been named OER Atlas and we planned actually to do a third one at the end of the project. And currently I'm not sure if we will manage to do it, but certainly this would be quite interesting to provide these quantifiable summary of the OER info project. But maybe just some lessons learned from our experiences working with the OER world map as a part of a central infrastructure. And I think that our initial idea that data collection would happen by itself turned out to be untrue. And what we could see with OER info is that it works pretty well if you have somebody who takes care of it. So, especially in the first phase of the project, we had a dedicated editor who just concentrated on the OER info and data collection that worked pretty well at that time. And another lesson learned is that it's working quite well if you are connecting it to important events like the publication of the Atlas or like conference. So, there is actually, it's working if you take care of it and it's not expensive. So, I mean, since the technical platform is there already, you just need to find somebody who takes care of data collection. And I think this is an important insight, especially for future policy and OER policies and initiatives, since they should collect and have these data we collected anyway. And so it's just the thing that you decide doing this and that you keep care that maybe you find a student editor or something like it who keeps care of the data collection. So, and another thing was that we, that there was no obligation to use this data and to contribute this data. So, we always had to ask people, could you please send us the data and could you fill it out? Could you enrich it? Which was okay and worked fine in many cases. But I think another thing which could be helpful for implementing a control system and database control system like the OER Worldmap to an OER initiative is to make it obligatory. So that you say I'm having this major project or this program and I expect every project to share the data so that we have a reliable source of information of this. So, yes, I think the last thing, technical things I said are quite evolved and just for people from other parts of the world. And what you can see on OER Info is the OERD A CARTA. And this is actually can be implemented for other countries and states quite easily. So, it's made, we are mainly implementing an iFrame into another website. So, if you're thinking about doing something like this, it's not expensive to use it. And the major task is in collecting the data. And just the last remark, we have the OER recommendation and the recommendation requires or expects countries to monitor the activities. I think that the experience made with the OER Worldmap in Germany are quite encouraging that it's possible to go in this direction and proceed in this direction. And I think that the real potential will come if we find several states using a similar data monitoring system and so that they can compare activities in different countries. And I'm not expecting that this will happen. But my opinion at the moment is that it would be possible if there would be the political will to do it and if there was enough decision and commitment to stick with it, then we could do it. And nevertheless, we only focused on quite easy to find things concerning educational monitoring. So, we concentrated on institutions, on projects, on events, on things which are quite tangible and you can see it and you can point to it. If you're thinking about OER monitoring in a wider sense and if you're thinking about pedagogical effectiveness of open education, what does open education change in the heads of the people? I think that's the thing which is even much harder to measure and to be honest, I currently have no clue how this could be done. But the good thing is that there are still some open questions and with this I'm coming to the end of my short presentation. Is it good? Yes, there is a question in the chat. Robert asks, can these data be of use in the context of the OER recommendation for nations to report about their progress at implementing? Yes, I mentioned this already in the talk. I think it can. So I think it's a good starting point for building up a monitoring system for education and I think it's quite reliable. We have just developed the OER Policy Hub. I'm just posting a link to a video which we produced for a global conference here on the OER Policy Hub. So we are currently trying to starting with policy documents and then linking it to activities which results out of these policy documents. And I definitely think that the OER world map is capable and could contribute to setting up a major monitoring system for open education. But for sure, if we really want this to be successful, we have been funded by ULIT quite fine, but nevertheless we were a small team. So we had maybe around four or five employees working on the map and none of them was full-time working. So you see, if we really want to take care of it and use it as a means to address the OER recommendation, we have to adjust the resources for this, make the team a little bit bigger. And we need committed local initiatives who are willing to take this way, who are willing to support this approach by providing an editor. This is the second question from Igor. He asked, to the best of my knowledge, there is currently no harmonized approach developed to assist countries with reporting on progress in the context of the OER recommendation, correct? Yes, I'm not aware of a harmonized approach concerning this as well. I think it's an interesting thing, if you think about it, that maybe collecting these data and reporting is kind of a scary thing for many of it. And I'm quite skeptical if it can be compared to open education and if it might be too harm to open education as well. If you look at quality making, for instance, in the health system in Germany, everything is being measured down to minutes. You have two minutes for doing this, two minutes for doing that. And I think we should try to avoid this happening for education as well because open education is about creativity, it's about having trust to other people. So we have to take care that our monitoring process and our management process do not, how do you name it, drosseln or take away the air for people to work in the educational sector. And I think that maybe it's a good idea to, if the open education community takes a proactive approach in this way and so that we can provide measuring systems which fit to our own procedures and own processes so that they are not being given by people who do not understand what they do and who do not see the effect which these approaches can have to open education. Okay, with regard to the time I would give Daniel now the opportunity to talk about the transfer strategies. Yes, I muted myself. Okay, I did not forgot it. Yes, I'm going to talk about our transfer activities and first of all my name is Danny Otto as you might know I'm from the learning lab at the University of Newspork Essen. And I was responsible for the transfer to the educational sector of higher education, but I'm today also speaking on behalf of my colleagues. There, who were responsible for vocational education, adult education and school, and I'm going to take a little bit of what we've done during these two years of the second funding period. And this mainly concerns transfer mainly concerns increasing the adoption or slash use of OER and all the educational sectors. And what we did in terms of measures is to organize workshops, give lectures, further trainings, just to teach interested people, for example, school teachers or lectures at higher education, make them aware of OER teaching them to use OER giving information of what OER is and I'm just trying to briefly reflect on some of the main impressions outcomes we have gained during these two years. And first of all, for the first, for the first funding period, there was a little bit of a problem that we did not really evaluate what we were doing. So that was not kind of an objective evaluation with the leading research questions. So interviewing, for example, people who joined the workshop and for the second period wanted to do that a little bit differently. And we designed a survey and distributed it at all the measures we made, for example, and workshops we gave and lectures we gave. And we were mainly interested in learning more about the motivation about our participants. And we use that by applying a concept of attitudes, so investigating, serving the attitudes of the people. So learning more about their motivation for joining the events. And I don't know if I can go to the next slide myself or somebody because I'm here with my... Or Zigi, can you go maybe to the next slide? I don't know why this doesn't work. I cannot. Okay, thank you. Perfect. Yes. So we surveyed all the participants of our measures. Of course, not everyone participated, but at least 207 persons completed the survey we distributed. And as I said, we use the concept of attitudes. And this is mainly just briefly consists of three parts. So first of all, behavioral components. So just knowing about the intention people have to use OER, a cognitive component. This is more about the knowledge and beliefs that the people have and an effective component, which is more about the feelings and emotions. They connect with the topic of OER. And of course, we could observe that we could state that the people who came to the workshops to third indicate concrete intention and behavior to use OER in their educational sectors. So we surveyed all educational sectors. So this was really the socially high on the approval of the people. Interestingly, we can see that for the cognitive components, so the knowledge and beliefs about OER. So meaning, for example, if OER facilitates innovative teaching, for example, if OER increases the use of OER in education, if it facilitates legal issues, for example. This was rather moderate and also the level about OER, so they have to self assess their level, was also quite moderate. What we can state, however, is that especially the effective components, so the feelings and emotions they had for the topic of OER. So that can be mainly described as, for example, the urgency of facilitating cooperation and sharing of material, the need to cooperate with others. These were rated really as high by the participants. So if you could go back to the slide before. That would be excellent. So we could say that the results show that especially the values and ideas behind OER are the main drivers to engage in it and not the concrete beliefs about it. So they say, although it's time consuming to use OER, for example, in my context, I believe that the basic idea behind OER is very good and is desirable. So maybe you can just conclude that very shortly. And what those people would need to increase their engagement in OER is especially incentives on an individual level. So incentives could be, for example, for higher occasion project funding or recognition of their activities, for example, on their teaching record. But also, and I think this was mentioned by Jan before, structural measures like policy, for example, to support those who are willing to lead. Otherwise there won't be any increase in OER adoption. The second problem we observed during the measures we did was the content problem. So we still have a problem that although meanwhile several repositories exist, there's not enough content in it to fat those who are interested in engaging in OER. So for example, if we have workshops, a lot of people are coming and saying, okay, this is really interesting. And the Turkish teacher, can you give me material, for example, for the context of this teaching and honestly, we have to say no, there's not enough content there. And maybe we can spur them to say, okay, more content needs to be provided. So that is really a problem. At the moment, there are a lot of federal initiatives to set up repositories and just fill them with content. I think this would be very important for the next years. And I think also there was a mention before we have the problem that we have that we are federal restates, so we have 16 different states who all have their idea of how to obtain results for OER that also makes it complicated. And this is one, one major step could be a meta search engine. We're working on that in another project. Kind of the Google for OER. I think this would be very good. Yes, I hope because I got several minutes, several messages that I only have one minute left or three minutes left. If there are overall questions or questions concerning transfer, please shoot. Thank you very much. So if there are any questions, please post them in the chat. So I have one question. One thing I know from Germany is that you always use German terminology. But here, you're talking about OER and about open educational resources. Is that the deliberate choice or not. Sorry, I don't know if I got the question right. Can you, can you maybe reformulate. Okay, I know that Germany always uses German terminology for everything. Okay, you mean. And here you use the English term OER open educational resources. Yeah, we also have a translation. Yes, you're sorting it. But in this case we use the term OER and I don't know if that was to our advantage because maybe it would have been better if we have used or established German translation. And did not. And in my personal opinion, I would say, and that's a bit problematic because these three. Yeah, OER it is not really. It is not really, I don't know intuitive and if you talk to people about OER they first of all say okay what's that. I don't understand it and yeah. If we do it again maybe we could think of German translation would be better in my opinion but I don't know my colleagues. I think it's the same way. I see interesting comments from Jörgen. So, we ran out of time. So, I would like to thank the panelists for this interesting overview of the German activities. I think it was interesting to see and I do hope that you find the funding to continue all your info, because I think it's a really important for the future of open educational research in Germany to continue your activities. So thank you very much. And Igor you can stop the recording.