 edition on week two of the seagull talks here at the Graduate Center CUNY in the City University of New York in New York City, which is a ghost town like everywhere, almost everywhere on the planet, New York City as you all know, has been hit hard and Italy in a way started it as to alert us of a situation and we took it much more serious. And because of many, many people are sick, hospital workers, as we speak, people are in emergency rooms, most of the people are dying even in our will and our we talk. And but we of course think also about our lives, our work, the meaning of all of it also the meaning of art and theater and how do we what do we should we do? What are we doing? How should we react? And how not? And it's Thomas Ostermeyer who said when one of our talks with us, you know, we should stay sober and not read in the apocalyptic meaning in this world is chaotic, we will go through this take time to prepare. We have friends from Hong Kong and China, who also said, you know, in Hong Kong, especially this is over, something else will start for us. This is just a little pause in between bigger struggles. And we had Teatro delle Albe from Avena also last week who gave us an update from Italy. But just yesterday, we had Lila Soliman and Dalia Bassoni from Egypt and Sahara Sa from Lebanon who talked to us about the already difficult difficult situation artists like them are in. And they're now in the mountains and little villages and trying to to survive. And it's unclear how everything will be going. They said there is an artist's help of $20 a one time payment. And there's only one phone line nationally and you have to call in and once you get a confirmation sent in a filled out form. So it's incredible. We started the whole thing off with Taylor Mac and Chris Martin. They started something here in New York City trickle up NYC.org where they created something like a Netflix system that you pay $10 a month. And then you have access to artists work online, but you really, really supports them. I think it's a great idea. And something we all should be should be supporting Toshiki Yukata from Japan called in. He's working actually on a ghost play, which he already had in his work and he's trying to do rehearsals online and to see how that works, how it changes all the subtle of the director-actor relationship. But they remind us also yesterday from Egypt to say, you know, let's stay patient. Let's not fall into the pressure of overproducing that we have to do something. These are extraordinary times and that we really have to all see that in a way as we already knew theater is not essential at the moment. It was ever clear. Now it is. And still it is what life makes life a life where we know when we are alive. And I think we can't wait to come back and to hear the noises as Thomas Osman said of opening nights of full bars of greeting friends, touching friends, and this is all taken away. New York especially has no space, has no money. Now really, there's no space to perform. There is no money for the downtown or this especially. And so it's a it's a dire situation. Let's turn to Italy, which is also next to New York City. An epicenter. I know France is also hitting hard these days and it's looks like it's getting also more serious. But Italy is the country that was most of the world's headlines and I have a fantastic guest with us tonight. Today we have Lucia Calamari. And Lucia is one of the great playwrights of Europe and therefore of the world. She also has been on the Segal Center with her Origin de Mondo, the beginning of the world. Fantastic, beautiful, poetic work, post-Bequiettian reflection on mankind. Names us as Graziano Graziani, who himself is a novelist, cultural critic, is one of the voices of Stito and Italian discourse on it. It sits on many committees for wars that were given out but also his program and Rai are people listened to and look up to him and also with Valeria Orrani, who has created the Italian playwrights project. She's a producer, also a community organizer, commenter and she created humanism and she felt she had to leave Italy to actually create something that brings mankind together to reflect and to get a new start. So my question now is do we all need a new start? Is that something that is a temporary pause button or do we go forward? And Lucia has written a poem about this in Italy, it was published in W0, it's an Italian online magazine, a poem if I understand right where she said let's wait, let's experience what we have, let's not rush to our computers right away and produce in 10 days a 12-piece mini series for Netflix. No, this is something very different and so Lucia, tell us a bit about the poem, why did you write it? Lucia, tell us a bit about what you wrote, about your poem, about your poetry. At this time it's very important for us to, there's a feel for, we need to write something at this time, why actually be asked to write something about it? It's almost as if we had to talk about it and in my opinion it is not actually easy to talk about it. There are no words because it's something that it's really unknown to us. Not so much about the quarantine, you know, feeling being isolated which has sometimes it's a bit sad as a disaster, bad feelings when for instance when you when you lock yourself up at home and you don't really want to feel like having to talk to anyone what I really think it's quite difficult to describe impossible, almost obscene is this sort of think about the human being as simply because it's absent thank god I've got a family and that I'm not actually 100 isolated, I'm not by myself because the presence of other human beings has a meaning for ourselves and I'm really upset about all this constant writing about it and it's a possibility to do instant play, instant radio, instant haul on this situation and it really bothers me that everybody's updating us instantaneously without actually stopping and just waiting I believe that later maybe I don't know exactly when we can talk about it definitely we we're gonna need to talk about it but not now as it happens Nevertheless, everything's happening now, you know, they're all talking about it I would prefer artists and intellectual people would just stop and reflect on it at the moment thank you maybe I'm going to read a few lines which I most probably wrongly but try to translate up that poem that actually got very controversial in Italy there were responses not very nice ones but I think it touched on a real nerve it touched on something very significant she wrote in the middle of the poem me on the present nothing in general I've always hated the present let alone this here that touches us but also any other here stay here anyone here any hour now moment moment instant and it goes on it's a beautiful longer poem she says why do we even have to rewrite Camus isn't he good enough why the busyness of what we have to do he wrote already about it why do we think we have to put it up and she said I then deeply despise souls who already now and then tonight and tomorrow morning they are writing the book the books that will come out tomorrow the latest next week about what's happening and that overwhelms us in a little desly rightly way she then goes on because they are of course those who believe they already know from the present present in itself it is in the extorbidant and for me in intelligible what to say in general shit and from there from these salius lives trivial things that that fly by and at the very end she even says perhaps I suggest that those who also give remarks they should be thrown out of the window and so my question to Graziano thank you first all for joining us what do you think of the poem what does Lucia touch on well I think that Lucia really focused the situation that we're living a feeling especially about what we're living and she's of course always as as her playwrights are she's partisan she has no you know filter and she said in a very strong way please stop don't talk about virus now because we are going through something that we don't know already so if you are an artist you have to stop it stop to talk and you have to be in true the situation and when you go out you can have the you know the perception and the instruments to talk about what is what is going on what happened the poem it's it's more I mean it's poetics it's but it's always in a little bit funny especially the last part of the poem and in Italy didn't understand the irony is inside this point of view that is radical of course but it's also funny because it's a pretty ridiculous point of view what we are normally doing before the virus or I mean run run run write a book write another book write a play put another place on the stage and blah blah blah what happened I think that this situation it's kind of you know something that get off of our eyes like lens that we put off and we realize that maybe maybe or maybe not is possible to stop that it's something that normally our society I mean western society states Europe they normally say there is no alternative you have to go to work you have to produce you have to make money you have to pay your debts you have to pay the bills you have to do another play you have to stay in the social because of the way it's going to be forgotten in five minutes and blah blah blah what I think is this situation that is forced we are forced to be at home we are not maybe I don't know our our community for now is not starving but some of them maybe the poorest they are afraid to to to get starving in two or three months because they're gonna finish the money and many many people have different reaction one of these reactions just stop is like the Lucia reaction the other that it's I think it's the majority it's like something like a click in the mind of many artists say we cannot stop we have to go on we have to continue what we're doing because with many many you know beautiful normally beautiful thoughts like art cannot stop art have to leave to go on we have to you know question in answer in in an artistic way to the situation and blah blah blah it's it's the normal formula we apply to every emergency before the virus but what happened I think that this situation make us to realize that you are very fragile I mean as a system not only not only art system I think many system but art system is full of very strange kind of you know kind of work kind of contracts for example many people have no especially in Italy we have not unions for example to you know apply for the rights of the actors or play rights and blah blah blah so suddenly we realize that maybe this very you know enormous toy it's broken maybe forever maybe for five years maybe for two years but many people say okay but for two years I cannot survive for two years what I can do I can turn myself in a plumber in a you know pizza guy what what I cannot survive in this situation continue to be a poet continue to be a playwright continue to be an actor I think this huge question maybe flip out our mind a little bit but it was a revelation of something that we normally we don't confess to ourselves I mean the situation of in which artists work first of all and the compulsion you say compulsion in yeah of the approach every there's something new okay we have to write there's something you know we have to face it okay we have to write but we this situation and I mean it's a kind of very normal capitalistic late capitalistic system situation put us to produce and give us few time every time less to think so I think what I think is it happened that some people didn't can't really stop I mean even because they they feel they have to do something we cannot stay in our home we have to flow into the screens and go to the others houses and years and highs and keep in touch in this way and another approach is like Lucia's approach is to say okay don't be we we don't know we don't need to be uh you know so down in a in a in a in a series of words we need we need to understand what's this new era is facing uh with us I mean which are the new question which are the possible answers for me for example I think that one answer is gonna be if social distance is gonna last for two years it's impossible to continue with this job I mean it's really impossible because theaters especially in Italy men the experimental theaters are very small that have no money to you know to rent another big theater to put the audience very far one from each other it's not possible it's not possible with this economical system so all you close it's one one possibility or otherwise you have to to think in another way maybe for example teaching studying uh rehearsing these things we can do for the future and it's gonna be our weapon to face the new situation probably I don't know I don't know because I I try to I wrote an article I mean one of these bad journalists and Lucia say that try to face the situation with words but the title of my article sounds like the only thing I can think is I cannot think because the the the beginning of this quarantine it was like okay we are in our houses we have we are I mean lucky part of the society because we can work a little bit smart work by our computer we have lots of books you see after me and I can stay at home write a new book have all the time of the word I have not to rush and run on the street for meetings blah blah blah nothing on that happens I mean our concentration our minds start to flow and it's like we turn a little bit into animals because we we don't know what's the new reality is and uh every every time at 6 p.m in afternoon we are waiting for how many deaths for today how many people get infected and what is going to happen uh about me about my family about my work all this many many many you know question we and we have no answer to face it and what happened suddenly I start to read to read the articles I understand that many people that start to write the article in a very old way I mean in the way we did before corona and try to explain the situation they use some kind of thoughts that seems you know good at the first reading and after I don't know one hour sounds sounds very you know it's like one century ago every time it's gonna get old very very fast so what I try to to to you know to to shape to design this article it's okay something is changing and I think that what is changing especially at this beginning is our uh psychical ambience we're living you know that our yeah the situation our mind but even our uh economical system even haven't the way we work in in theater for example it's something that it's in our mind so if this mind this way of thinking is changing maybe not always is uh bad maybe we can surf on it and find a new way to face to face what is going to be the reality I don't know what is it yeah so there is certainly as there was a time before and after 9 11 the time before and after world war two there will be a time before and and after um corona I think Hannah Muller once also said so much evil in the world comes from the fact that we cannot stay at home alone especially man and uh he said Genghis Khan had his big empire because he couldn't return home he didn't had a home he could feel home so he brought destruction built a big empire but ultimately also you know died afar and um he referred it to Kleist and said Kleist in a way had no home in Germany at the time so he wrote his empires but he was a nomad who worked in his way so now we are forced to to stay at home and live with it there was a funny article in the German paper not funny but he said you know yes a domestic violence will go up we know that it's like Christmas when people have to stay at home uh with their families um Valeria you are in between um the two worlds so between the US and Italy you monitor the scene you have been under quarantine for five weeks very early on when you came back from Italy um what are the signals you detect coming from Italy and looking a bit from the inside but knowing it looking at it from the outside but knowing it so well from the inside what are your thoughts so I am in between so this is a fact I am in between because uh I feel myself part here in US and and I was not supposing how much I am feeling myself here in in US New York I didn't feel myself as a New Yorker till this moment so it is a very strange feeling because I am Italian I never feel myself as a New Yorker but in this moment I feel myself mostly New Yorker than Italian this is very strange and but of course I am also Italian uh in some way I think these six years I spent here looking forward from here to my country in somehow prepared me to what I am living and this is a very difficult it is very difficult to to uh to describe but because I am very very close to Lucia when she write her poem I was so close with her since the first reading of her poem and I wrote something in a social to to say it's true what is what she is writing also because I guess we need to be more quiet and critical and at the same time and uh and I also think the condition to don't act to think to take notes is the one I recognize better as the condition of the art there is a completely different of how much money I will do or I will not do it's completely different is a another path of course everybody are humans we are humans everybody and we need to be protected by our expenses and our normal life we need money to to to live as everybody economical economics is the fundamental of the contemporary life and we discover it you know also in the words of our governors the first the first approach was we can't stop the life because we need to produce then now everybody agreed that we need to stop our lives because producing is after it comes after and and this kind of a feeling in in relation of the arts is the same we were talking about with the hermana montanari a couple of days ago so I recognize that the the needing to stay to stay calm to stay in in a in a suspension time where you can study you can not study you just can think or maybe do nothing but in any case you are taking notes about this moment because everybody doesn't have any view about this we don't know how long this moment will will stand or we don't know if we will different or we will not different or better or worse we don't know we we don't know even if we will be alive so and this is one of the folks I am a single mother I am here very far from everywhere and the first vote I had if I get ill it's a big problem so my first vote was if I get ill it's a big problem and then after that this is of course is this is a general vote no that is not is not connected just with one work or with the art or with a position in life as a general is universal is an universal thing a photo that that is because we are animals first of all we are animals so we are not acting as animals we are animals and this is important we think about it because it is connected with everything is going around us nature is growing up you know so coming back to your question I am in between of course I see the differences about the also the action of the government the different governments with the the the workers or the business or the small business here and there no and this is a something that put or not put in quiet people because if I know that in somehow my government will help me I will be more relaxed maybe but it's not because as you know here in us we have many many less guarantees than in Europe and so everything is very controversial is very interesting to study is very interesting to leave it I think I am in a in a privilege to see and live this period and I know it's a paradox what I am saying and I I am not saying I am very happy that everything is happening around me or inside my life is not this is this is not the point the point is that we have the privilege to stop all together because if we stop alone in a society that goes so fast as we know we get to travel invest so maybe a question to Lucia how do you stop what do you do how does your day look like you are a writer artist you say we need to describe your day what do you do what time do you get up and how does your day look like walk up still get to wake up very early in the morning and unfortunately my my my young daughter also wakes up at seven o'clock so I have to put my mother's hat on which is something that I don't particularly like I love being a mother but just an hour after I wake up so I immediately have to act as a mother and then I take my time to do you know to just think about oh that's how my my son found a new name for for me miss oh it's the noise that's produced by sleepers because I'm just walking around the apartment all the time I'm so basically yeah in the I just walk around and yeah now I make books and it's not just a physical movement that I you know I walk around but I also walk with my mind because I'm trying to catch some ideas something I have something that I already know but I still haven't been able to acknowledge yet typically like other people I I need to walk to think and in this case I walk inside the house so this is what I do at home I move objects around you know I carry the pen or just change place for things in place all the time I change place all the time I don't know it's lunchtime I'm actually able to focus a little bit from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. because I know that at 6 p.m. they start to sing from the balcony oh that's also because I know at 6 o'clock everybody starts singing from the balconies I was something that I really loved the first few days now I just can't take it anymore I can't take it anymore what are people singing? all the songs are typical of in a talk about Rome like Antonio Venditti's very popular song not very sophisticated no no and the final is terrible at ligno-nazionale and then the national anthem Fratelli d'Italia no no e praticamente la mia giornata it's finished and then yes it's finished my day's over ricomincio a spostare le cose I start moving things around again I must say I feel like a plant I understand I understand it's my day that's between three and five you write a little bit or what are you writing what are you working on c'è un luogo del pensiero che mi attrae e che io purtroppo sono condannata a parlare di solitudine I'm unfortunately I'm condemned to talk about solitude and loneliness so yes the origin of the world the story is a woman that talks to the fridge your earlier play when we also added the sego center so the diary of an unemployed person unemployed a woman lying down on the couch I'm thinking about how to find a job and then at sunset I feel horrible that I have written this because it talks about a man that locks himself at home and doesn't want to get to to see anyone considerate a questa costante so therefore I'm trying to create an idea that would somehow reflect a relief that would offer the possibility to to really from solitude and loneliness and I just found an article from the new yorker of what year 2018 about hiring love from relatives not romantic love no roman not romantic love general feelings bonds so there are agencies that actually hire and where where you can hire you're rented relative yeah yes yes I'm trying to work on this idea of having to of hiring someone that can get inside my solitude my my status it's quite yeah it's a word game yeah incredible hey graziano this is a moment from the inside of luchia's mind and state and our apartment do you go out on the street of rome what do you see oh yeah I'm not going out of my house many times actually just for buying something is not allowed now in italy you can just go from 200 meters from your 200 meters from your house for how many weeks are you at home since eight of march so I think it's for weeks for something yeah and for fortune I live in a very in an ancient late 19th century flat with a very wonderful terrace on the roof like mario monicelli in the soliti gnoti if you have seen that whole movie that kind of rooftop and I got there just to you know to put my my my clothes at the sun after washing it and it's it's good because I can walk on it sometimes I do a walk during the night when it's totally and for night I sometimes I mean like 9 p.m it's incredible because 9 p.m is like 3 a.m in the morning maybe four because at 3 a.m you can find somebody that it's a jump out from a bar and it's drunk and then try to reach his house but not a four I mean it's normally a four years totally empty and you go out at 9 p.m and there's nobody sometimes they do like a little round not to be to be not to have no problem with the police because they can ask you where you're going if you not have to work for a necessary compartment you cannot go out so I just take a little you know breach and after this I stay home and work on the on this you know these things that I start to love in the first five minutes like zoom these instruments like sky zoom meet and you know I I think was adorable after five minutes I understand I was adoring the devil because we are working the double of the time of before I think I mean my impression is that we are like flies on a you know on a on a light doing like this but I mean for fortune our sector is still going on I mean it's thinking preparing what is going to be the next season I mean even think now it means failure it means it means to fall and then go over I mean we're gonna we're gonna make a lot of mistakes I think one every day till we're gonna find something that it's important to to spend time on it we didn't find it for now well the good thing about writing of course is you can always write that you can't write you know and if you're a boxer or piano player you can play or fight it's it's it's different so and what is the mood between your friends and your artist what what do people talk about are they how are they coping after four weeks in Italy I think Marcus Italy normally used to be a country of an anarchist but now people actually are listening and there's a bit more more trusting government in Paris people do not really listen as much as literally it's a big surprise but how is the mood how is the the mind of people are you worried about friends what about your family what I know your mother your mother recently died but what so sorry about that and to hear about it but how is your state of mind and your friends how does it I have two categories no no everything is fine can talk about yeah next summer what we're gonna do next summer and totally irrational completely irrational and I have to say but I'm the 20% only 20% we still have the same people that you know used to say the same thing before and everybody's impressed let's see the way you know they are yeah my friends it's the movement of the with a hand on yeah torna in questo momento che una frase di mia nonna an old saying that my great mother used to say oh we're we're ruined which is a sentence that everybody who lives here in the world knows so that's it yeah that's how how how was the mood how did what do you feel and to what do your friends say yeah I mean it's more or less what Lucia said it's a kind of I don't have a percentage but it's you know split into somebody it's optimistic but the most of the people in in theater are worried about the future because of course is a very fragile pay piece of our society because it's the first activity that stops and it's gonna be the last starting over because of course because social distancing it means not theater because theater it's about people that join the same place to stay together maybe close and see other other bodies so it's body meeting bodies which is interesting yeah because the theater always is important because it does mirror it does reflect like the canary bird a society and it's doing well and it's supported people go it's a society that works it stays together you when it's complicated things are forbidden you can do it like in the the colleagues from yesterday already without the corona they cannot even announce their place they have to do in little places hidden often so this theater is such a fancy fantastic a beautiful thing to celebrate life and death both as it was to my I said that also in our talks but it is on the side of life and it accurately reflects that's why we study theater that's why it is important that is important to make it but coming back to your opening statement there that's the honor where you really strongly said there is a different time now it has changed will it be a different time for Italy will politics change will the country change and therefore I think yes I'm I'm persuaded that is gonna change very deeply because maybe I'm wrong I don't know maybe we're gonna solve this situation somebody's gonna lose the job and we continue the same way in the next year I'm not sure about it but I don't think it's gonna be like that because I was thinking I was talking with a friend I mean a friend that was is an artist and they say okay I lose this job and this job and this job and start to say you know the list of the job he lost and he said it's a very big amount of money and the first day I was like wow it's gonna be a disaster but the second day they say okay but it's a disaster for everyone the situation it's not more on me it's on us so what happened happened that we we cannot I think two two two two situation probably we gonna make up enormous amount of debt like in the 80s for for Italy or like in Martian plan after the world and we continue we we maybe we're gonna work more and it's gonna be everybody of us are gonna have much more money than before because we gonna stop with this austerity with this pressure of of work for few money that was like day by day in Italy about theater for not for all but for 80 percent of the artists or otherwise everything is gonna fall down in the in every case we have to face a brand new situation because it's everything falls down we have to restart something I don't think theater is gonna stop it's the end of the theater I mean after the the the black plug in London they close theater for 10 years maybe eight years I don't remember and they start over maybe not the same people maybe not us maybe another generation I'm not afraid about theater theater is like life it's gonna find its way to to start again what about us this is a problem because we have young adults or whatever and we have to say to to face this situation okay I think we can take this occasion to understand what what was not going good in the in the previous world let's say and to in our little little situation we can start to you know to to to answer to a question why I didn't say that before because everything is going up now it was totally clear even three months ago our the way we work the way they pay us the contract the audience which kind of audience I heard a status on on Facebook just today say a lot of old guys gonna die 70% of the audience in Italy of theater it's old guys we are losing our audience I mean it was a joke maybe a black joke but I mean it was clear even three months ago why we didn't stop and start to study about our situation we just can't because we somebody say you can't you have to go on now we stopped and we have time to face with this you know with this question and try to give some answers maybe had a dream about in my dream theater became an illegal practice something like drugs so basically people had to start over but just hiding in it's like what christians just used to do you know used to practice religion in the catacombs yeah terrible fines terrible dangers well area what do you think will will will italian society change you left because you felt the change you wanted it to happen will that happen now the society in general i don't know italy the italy italian i i think about the society in general i don't i just don't think about italy i think it will change it depends on how long this insulation will be i i think i think it is interesting to see the falling down of capitalism if it will be it's in life in some way i think it is impossible that capitalism don't fall down so we know that capitalism is based on companies that buy themselves and grow in the in the in the wall streets and so on no so now it's not happening so everything is very fragile but in some way it could be very very interesting to see how society will have a metamorphosis of these but if but it's impossible don't have these these path of metamorphosis and as you said earlier actually life becomes before productivity life our life now even comes before capitalism and that's way sense because it has stopped and that will really put us all back into thinking what are significant changes that should have happened as i said a long ago and will have them that there will be adaptations as some of course also point out no one has invented a better system at the moment even so we don't like the turbo and hybrid capitalism we do live in if we detest it but there has to be a way that really thinks as we do know about all of us that's something that affects all of us and that's something that should be working for all of us but what about theater let's dream do you do you think what what comes to all of your mind might there be a new form that is coming out or should be really say like luci has a let's wait do you know and and observe but are their dreams already there often people say revolution happened but what made the revolution the revolution has already happened it is just the final moment of a big change that has been coming but is there something what should theater be in that new post corona time is there something we should look forward to are you asking to me everybody yeah i have um um uh as you know we started uh uh together you and me uh a path about uh a play writing so uh of course the plays and theater are strictly connected but in somehow plays is writing and so lucia can can tell us uh uh how many plays she wrote and how many plays she so produced you know so i think the one of the part of theater will be alive in this moment will be writing uh maybe not immediately as departing of the poem of lucia not immediately and not about just this but because writing is writing everybody can write everywhere everywhere every time and with every um suggesting the yeah so this is a part and then the other part uh i see as producer so it's a technical uh a view mine one is not a poetic view is a i think that will be an approach little by little so we will see many performances of maybe dancer your band dance or uh um uh as we talked with uh gratia i think yesterday and uh or we can see um site specifics or other kind of art that we already know is not they are not news for uh for theater but uh they can ensure something uh that is not connected with the proudly audience just to help people to come out and rejoin the the play the game you know this is my point of view maybe i'm wrong completely i am not sure that i am telling the truth but i think uh cinema and theater as we remember the proudly audience uh with uh 200 500 people sit one close to each other in a in a close space uh i think will be very very difficult to have in the immediate uh in the immediate time so cut channel what do you think um as i did i'm agree with uh with uh valeria this way i was saying before that uh the new situation is gonna be look with new eyes and um i think that the the the most um important thing to do is like not to uh approach the new situation in an hysterical way of course the situation is going to be strong but uh is not for just for theater it's for all of us so we have to think on theater like part of our society i think in this situation we cannot just cry for what is not possible to do anymore or maybe for one year or for two years we have to understand that we are in history otherwise theater doesn't means nothing because we are in in the time and in society and in this society and in this time that i hope is gonna be fast we have to you know find a new way to look at the reality and maybe new words and maybe new kind of theater so i think that as i as i told you before for the you know for the the future that we're gonna live in a while when everything is gonna be open but not so possible to uh to live in the same and the very same way of before uh we need to study a lot and to understand which is the best approach for the for the situation we need to be not hysterical and the realistic face of the reality because of reality right now it's much more uh you know imagine full of imagination that any any uh you know uh author can be uh the provocation of the reality is stronger because if somebody write a a playwright like this you say it's too much i cannot believe it's not i'm not gonna work on a stage but we're living in it so we can learn from it of course a little bit i don't know what but i think we can learn and i'm sure that this first step that we are looking at the at the past i call it past is just one month ago but it's past with different eyes it's just something that we are learning to do it that we are not using to do it just one month ago but yeah what do you think and also as the artist the writer also on the panel um what advice would you give artists young artists or mid-career people there late what what what is your suggestion what should they be thinking and doing but also thinking about what do you imagine the different theater afterwards consider that isle is a um a small country so um it takes time to adapt um this time actually it was much easier it all happened faster surprisingly school started uh providing ear learning and things that could not have happened in 20 years suddenly all of a sudden the happening however you can't have theater with a screen in the screen cannot replace theater so i would what the thing that i would say to young artists just be quiet because theater is going to get back because it needs the physical presence of the audience and of uh you know staying together and that's life CSR is uh life all together uh don't panic just quiet just take it easy for yes i will survive will always survive yeah yeah i think it was the great Gertrude Stein who did say that half of the theater actually has not so much to do with anything you see on stage it's friends calling each other up saying are you going to go there and you meet you have a dinner before or after you talk about what you saw you and have been like in front of a life of fireplace where you get some energy out like energy is set free from the symbols and on the stage from the words and you think about your life your family or your political situation in your country and but half of it oh yes also is that it's a communal affair and um but as Graziano pointed out maybe a lot of things did not work the way they should have worked they are not the way they perhaps of the American system which is so focused in a way on the product so highly commercial almost entirely commercial and they could play is the one that finds 2000 times maybe um it will also be a reflection interesting yes they work in all these great theaters and the small spaces as well also in the big spaces they have significance they import they need support they don't get it at the moment and maybe it will help us to to come towards that um I think we're coming to the end of our really uh Lucia and Graziano and Valerius thank you for taking your time and energy and I know it's a short time you have been a long hole for such a long time and maybe I'll have so much to say and it's limited time but and was really important to hear from you all you're not alone we all think of you in Rome and where you are and this is important work what you have done I know the great theater you created Graziano that space that was occupied by you and your company you made a great contribution to the cultural life also of Rome and these times are now look even more paradisic than perhaps before tomorrow we will hear from three three theater workers in Taiwan I think it's also a country we need to hear from that reacted differently and we want to know what is going on I hope you will stay the great great Meredith monk who will be with us on Thursday and if I understand she might give us a tour also of her apartment and we might see her turtle but she also will talk about the meaning and she's one of the great icons and prophets and singers of our time so to hear from her what this means to her will be of significance and Aristide from Burkina Faso who's a great white art director who runs one of the most significant theater festivals in Africa will be with us on Friday so we are really trying to gather voices from global voices and to see how this and it's really affecting everybody so thank you for being with us thanks to hall round again at Amazon college for hosting us a great organization that makes it possible Thea and VJ and of course the Segal team a and Jackie and some young so that our people who supported the Segal Center over so much a long time and made our work happen thank you all and hope you all will stay safe and tune in again tomorrow and we are working on next year's next week's lineup so it's still all in the flux so I hope you will stay with us goodbye and stay safe thank you hope to see you all in New York