 Today we're going to talk about Larry Sinclair. Gregoros tells us about the videos we're going to watch. So this is from Tucker Carlson's ex-show and this is Sinclair who claimed in 2008 first that he had had a drug fuel sexual encounter with then state representative Barack Obama in 1999 in Illinois. One thing to note, this is probably best suited for an adult audience. Where did you meet Barack Obama? It was by accident. I was in the Chicago area in 1999 for Lee Duke's graduation from the Naval Academy. Who's Lee Duke? He's basically my godson. Okay. I had hired a limousine service. I'm starting it up. Did you live in Chicago then? No, no. I was actually living in Colorado. I had flown in the night before. Okay. So I had hired a limousine service, had made it the driver aware that if Lee couldn't leave the base because once they graduate some of them actually get their assignments and they're shipping out and they can't leave the base that I was still interested in going out and had asked the driver if he knew anybody that was available that might wanna show me, you know, Chicago. And he said he did. So who was the driver? His name was Jameer Motani. It was with five star limo. So you're just a guy who's in town for the night and it sounds like you're looking to party actually. Yeah. That's what you're really saying. Yeah. Well, I was in town for a few nights, but yeah, I was definitely looking to party. And... Did you make that clear to the driver? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was no misunderstanding. How direct were you about that? Extremely. Extremely. Extremely. Extremely. Okay. Yeah. There was no doubt what I was looking for. Okay. And he picked me up at my hotel in Gurney and drove into Chicago, pulled up in a bar outside and there's this guy that introduced to me as Barack Obama. It was literally that casual that... Had you ever heard of him? No. Did the driver know him? Yep. The driver definitely knew him because the driver said that he was a friend. Interesting. How would the driver be friends with Barack Obama? I only found out later of dealing with a reporter from Bloomberg News that apparently the limousine company had been doing business with Tony Rescoe that at the time was somehow affiliated with Barack Obama. Was in Obama's orbit, yes. Interesting. So he knew Barack Obama and in his view, Barack Obama liked the same kind of party you were looking for. Okay. So sex and drugs and upwards. Well, the sex part I wasn't so sure about until of course, you know, you make your move but it became obvious very quick. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so let's first talk about con artists. And I don't always hop on this one but this one I'm gonna hop on pretty hard because what they do is they find a mark and that mark has a need and they're really usually good at reading what that mark needs and feeding it. And in my experience, they work on half truth, borrowed authority and association. By that, I mean, they'll give you a fact that seems like it has relevance or may not really be altogether there. They'll borrow authority from somebody. Hey, Chase was in the Navy. He can't be wrong. I'd borrow authority from him and do it that way. And then association I associated with this person. You'll see a lot of it. The other thing I'm gonna talk about is you guys hear me all the time say eye movement works, but it only works if you know what the hell you're doing. And one of the things you're gonna see here is something that in my experience indicates a certain kind of personality. If a person always goes down into the right, it's not emotional. And by that, I don't mean that they are not emotional when they're remembering it. I think those people record most things in an emotional state. Those people are often tied up in drama in their lives. And when I ask them factual questions, they may go down into their right. I've worked with people in corporate America who do that and who only navigate between that down into the right and that down into the left. So thinking about the emotional impact is something how it impacts their life. The other thing to remind you is peculiar can become a baseline. So as we talk through this, you're gonna see a lot of movement and we may or may not say that is an indicator of something that you've heard us say before. And the last one before I say anything about what I see is muscle movement leaves residuals. Look at all that stuff in that guy's forehead. He's used his forehead for requests for approval a few times. You also hear him starting off way says Lee Duke. That might seem like he's going to chaff and redirect, he isn't. That's just part of his story. And you can see him doing a couple of things as he starts his story. And that is he shrugging that single right shoulder in the beginning. And then he's milling his feet underneath him. Mark you're the guy who first brought up. People put their feet under them ready to leave. This guy's almost like in the blocks ready to go. That's an interesting piece. His forehead is smooth and he's not doing any requests for approval when he mentions the name of his godson. But there's a lot of eye movement associated with auditory. When he starts to give us the details about Obama. Now, interestingly, when he gives us details and we're gonna watch this throughout, most of his details are down here to the right until he comes to something that seems like it should be a visual memory, but it's going right over here where we associate with auditory memory. When you memorize something, try remembering the words to your favorite poem. It's wrote. It goes into digital memory. It goes into auditory. So that's where we go for things that we have put into wrote. There's so much stuff in this first one. I'm gonna try not to hit them all because I know you guys have a ton of them too. He does an emphatic head driving down odd punctuation when he first starts talking about a gut there the night before. And he does a sniff. I think that sniff is his keeping track of which pieces of the story he's telling and we're gonna see it go on and on and on again. And throughout this first clip, he is using past tense. And he qualifies in distances. He said that this guy that is introduced to me as Barack Obama. Not that I met Barack Obama. He gave me his name. This guy that is introduced to me as. That's a disqualifier all day. I can say, well, maybe it wasn't him at a later point. I'm gonna leave a lot of this out. I'm gonna point out two things that you probably will remember we've seen recently. This guy is from somewhere in a low country, South Carolina, almost guarantee you originally. And the reason I say that is get that O sound that the Murdoz use when they were saying closed that kind of thing. You hear that sound? And he does a lot of lip compressions to say that's that. As you can imagine, this Tucker Carlson interview has caused a lot of controversy. 34 news outlets are reporting on it, but the vast majority of them are right-leaning publications. And when you look at the headlines, you can see how much of a role the media has in making the headlines. One left-leaning article focuses on the fact that Elon Musk has criticised Tucker's interview while one right-leaning outlet suggests the interview has gone viral, another calling it a bombshell. But thanks to our sponsor, Ground News, I can get a better sense of what's really going on. Their website and app combines news sources from around the world and gives you context about the source of the information. You can compare coverage and read entire articles all in one place. It's a real-time study in how the media can manipulate at a really deep level. Now, Chase is in the process of writing a book on this very topic because he believes it's a critical issue. And this is one of the most practical solutions he's seen. When you start using Ground News, you can actually keep track of your reading habits on their My News Buyers dashboard to make sure you're getting a balanced view. That feature is only available through their Vantage Plan, which you can get 30% off using our link, ground.news.com forward slash tbp. It's a tool that delivers context and transparency, making it invaluable in today's media landscape. I've personally found Ground News to be a game changer. Scott, what do you got? All right, as you guys know, I've dealt with cons more than any other type of person that I've dealt with or interrogated or interviewed. And this seems to me, that's why I go down, that's why I want to go down this road. Now, I'm not going to focus as much on body language as I am the situation and what he's talking about and how it's presented. So the descriptive terms for me are way too detailed for recalling a story. I mean, I know he's told the story a hundred times, but 90% of the time when someone recalls a story, they tell you what happened. It starts big. And you have to ask them questions to get down to the minutiae of what happened, you know? So when this guy gets in the, he talks in detail about how he talked to the limo driver and the guy says, you know, I just want to find somebody to hang out with and socialize with. And he says, yeah, I got the guy. And they drive to this bar, a gay bar, where outside on the sidewalk is waiting the guy he called Barack Obama, a senator, right? I mean, one of the odds of that even seeing him, much less there, seeing a senator there who is famous in Chicago, you know, at that time, because he's a senator there and he's in politics. People know who he is. He's not, you know, and he's not hiding. It was introduced as Barack Obama as well. So this is, that's way too much information, way too many things that look like they wouldn't happen. It sounds ridiculous doing that because there's a senator at a gay bar standing out on the sidewalk and this limo driver somehow knows him and calls him up because somebody he's never heard of before asks to be connected with somebody who likes to do drugs and, you know, I'd say at half sex. So he's not trying to hide who he is. No, I don't think so. And why would he use his real name? Why is he gonna say I'm Barack Obama? He wouldn't even say I'm Mike, you know, Lepescalie or something, some weird name, anything to hide his identity, but he doesn't try that at all. He's told the story a hundred times and we're seeing an inordinate amount of single shoulder shrugs, especially on his left. And like Greg was saying, I think this might be, you know, it could possibly be part of his baseline because he's so quirky and weird because that thing's popping off every three seconds. The things that give me pause in that are when, and they pop off because when we see the single shoulder shrug, that lets us know that person isn't confident with what they're saying or is most likely not confident with what they're saying. That's what that indicates. But when you see that shoulder go up and the chin go toward that as well, like I always say it was Joan of Arl that pointed that out to me. I had no earthly idea to look for that. And once I did, I started spotting these things where somebody, where I found out later on, they weren't being honest. That's the part where they weren't being honest. Not just a little shoulder shrug, there's a lot of that too. But when they throw that thing up and the chin goes toward it for some reason, that's when the deception comes out. Most of the time, I've seen, it's not a hundred percent, but I've seen that quite often since then. And when he says, he's going through the structure of his story, making sure everything is where it should be because he's remembering how he told it before. Because he's, the sentence structure he's using is the same thing he said over and over and over and over. And he's just set these little boxes up of things to say for each situation as it goes through it. I'm fascinated by storytellers. I want to tell you something about stories and a few minutes after this. But this guy is telling parts of little stories. He's got a big story, but he makes every little part of it in a story fashion. So you lock into that and listen, that's what cons do. They're great at that. When it comes to conning someone, building their confidence. When you see some comedians do it, you see some of the best storytellers in the world, Kurt Metzger, Big J. Ockerson, Nate Bargatze, they're fantastic storytellers and they lock you in by telling the story. And I'm going to tell you how that works in a couple of videos from now. So for example, Nate Bargatze tells this story about Olivia. Just Google Nate Bargatze and Olivia and listen to that and you'll see what I mean because you get right into this story really quickly. It's not very long at all, but that's what's happening here. This guy's telling the short, he's telling a big story, but little stories with his story. That's the first thing that I noticed within 15, 20 seconds, or probably 30 seconds of watching this. I was like, oh, I think I see what's going on. Didn't make a decision yet, but it looked pretty plain to me. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so a nice question from Tucker Carlson here, which is, did you live in Chicago? No, he says. I want you to go back, listen to that. Look how clear and fast that no is. Now, the question before that is, where did you meet Barack Obama? It was by accident. Well, those are very different. Now, one, I'm doing them in a different order. And what's interesting is when you get them in the more correct order of a baseline of, did you live in Chicago? No, that becomes more of a baseline for why the, why the, it was by accident because where that's not aware. That's not aware. That's a, that's a how. And the pause is very different. Now, does this mean he's being deceptive? No, there's not enough information at this point for it from just those. I mean, there's a lot more in that clip that I'm not going to cover, but that on its own is not enough. However, it is interesting. It is interesting the discrepancy between the two. I agree, multiple single shoulder shrugs from him. Now I totally agree. Like this is a quirky guy. He admits there's been drug abuse. We can see from him that there is most likely potentially some recent drug abuse as well. So look, you know, he could be doing those single shoulder shrugs for all kinds of reasons. I'll be looking out for a double shoulder shrug at some point because a double shoulder shrug means he can move both shoulders. That one of the arms is not incapacitated. It is interesting that he has these wrist supports on. So clearly there's some idea of his wrists being damaged in some way, or arms being damaged in some way. We'll find out later on what that might be about. I don't know. But look, let's look out for these double shoulder shrugs because it would suggest that some of those single shoulder shrugs may be about him not quite banking on his own story here. Early days, but it's interesting, isn't it? Because if this is a con, and we stand by, you know, an idea that was given to me by one of Britain's most pronounced con artists, and he said, you can only con a greedy man, greedy person. So I've got to think, what is this media greedy for, or a public greedy for, that we would suspend and lose all reason, all reasonable thought to go, yeah, this sounds credible. At this point, I'm not saying it's not credible, but it is already sounding fairly incredible. Chase, what have you got on this one? It does sound kind of funny. There's a couple of things just a little unusual here. They have an unusual person with an unusual life and an unusual backstory. And the sniff is like what they call the, you know, that I won't say it, but that's what they call the drug users sniff that they kind of develop over their life. And when it comes to the feet under the chair, the further your feet are under a chair tucked, the harder it is to get up and leave, I would say. You've got to do more effort. So my goal personally, when I analyze anything, is not really to find deception, but I want to discover what's potentially being hidden or concealed. So not having the opportunity for any of us to ask some questions brings in some limitations that make us approach this analysis differently than an in-person interview. So right here, the main goal for me is to establish a baseline probably for all of us as fast as possible. And the best way to do this is by observing behavior in response to low stakes, low stress questions and situations. And I use two quadrants to do this. So I want you to be able to do the same. The quadrants are nonverbal and verbal. And in the nonverbal quadrant, how we move our body and tone of voice, things like that, I'm looking to see if a behavior is smooth and confident, or insecure and stiff. And the other axis here would be if the behavior is opening or revealing or if it's closing or protecting. So he's in the top left, as I look at it, of this quadrant here for 80% of this video the whole time. It's smooth and mostly confident here. It's opening, it's revealing. And on the verbal quadrant, we have revealing versus concealing on one axis and focused and vague on the other. His language is revealing and focused. So there's not deliberately vague language, except for some stuff that might get him into legal trouble here. So we're also going to look and listen for changes in these coming videos. What's different from his normal behavior? And I went back, he's had a YouTube channel for a long time. He's got 289 subscribers that I was able to see today and there's videos on there. So I was able to get a very, very good baseline on him. He even posted a video yesterday that I took a look at about a GoFundMe that we'll talk about later. So you can download the baseline chart. I'll just put a link to the image right down in the description here and you can download it yourself if you like. One of those tape replays. Where did you meet Barack Obama? It was by accident. I was in the Chicago area in 1999 for Lee Duke's graduation from the Naval Academy. Who's Lee Duke? He's basically my godson. Okay. I had hired a limousine service. I'm starting it up. Did you live in Chicago then? No, I was actually living in Colorado. I had flown in the night before. Okay. So I had hired a limousine service, had made it the driver aware that if Lee couldn't leave the base because once they graduate some of them actually get their assignments and they're shipping out and they can't leave the base that I was still interested in going out and had asked the driver if he knew anybody that was available that might wanna show me, you know, Chicago. And he said he did. So. Who was the driver? His name was Jameer Motani. It was with five-star limo. So you're just a guy who's in town for the night and it sounds like you're looking to party actually. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you're really saying. Yeah. Well, I was in town for a few nights, but yeah, I was definitely looking to party. And. Did you make that clear to the driver? Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. There was no misunderstanding. How direct were you about that? Extremely. Extremely. Extremely. Okay. Yeah. There was no doubt what I was looking for. Okay. And he picked me up at my hotel in Gurney and drove into Chicago, pulled up in a bar outside and there's this guy that's introduced to me as Barack Obama. It was literally that casual that. Had you ever heard of him? No. Did the driver know him? Yep. The driver definitely knew him because the driver said that he was a front. Interesting. How would the driver be friends with Barack Obama? I only found out later of dealing with a reporter from Bloomberg News that apparently the limousine company had been doing business with Tony Resco. Oh. That at the time was somehow affiliated with Barack Obama. Was in Obama's orbit. Yes. Interesting. So he knew Barack Obama and in his view, Barack Obama liked the same kind of party you were looking for. Yep. Okay. So sex and drugs and upwards. Well, the sex part I wasn't so sure about until of course, you know, you make your move but it became obvious very quick. Like I said, when I brought up the fact that I could do something to wake up he immediately knew what I was referring to had made it clear that I was looking for Coke and I really was and had made the suggestion that he knew where we could get it and we left and go get it. Interesting. Did he say what he did for a living? No. I had no idea that he was a representative in the Illinois House. I had no idea he was in politics. I just knew that he was supposedly married and at the time was going through some issues with the marriage. Did he said that? That was made clear. Yep. Huh. Did he say what kind of issues? No. Do you remember? No. So you said I'm looking for something to wake up. He knows you're referring to cocaine. I know where to get it. What happens next? We get back in the limo. The driver takes us wherever it is that Barack had instructed him to take us. I had given Barack $250 to pay for Coke. He gets out, comes back. I start putting a line on a CD tray to snort. And you're in the limo? In the limo. Yep. Driving or parked? No. The driver's driving. Yep. I start to put a line on a CD tray and I just happen to notice that he pulls something else out of his pocket. And next thing I know he's got a little pipe and he's smoking. So I don't have an issue with it. I mean, some people smoke. Some people snort. Smoking the cocaine? Yes. So as I'm doing a line, I just start... This is the part where you kind of make your move to see where things are going. So I just started rubbing my hand along this thigh to see where it was going. And it went the direction I had intended it to go. So the night became somewhat active sexually and drug-wise in the limo. All right. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So hands are... Hands are buried. Okay. Again, not enough. Not enough of anything, but they are buried. There's some self-soothing that's happening there as well. And then when the fingers do bat on, they're not batoning on point. They're not going along with his speech. So I would say it's a good general rule. I don't like what his hands are doing right now. Now, to one point, like, he does seem to have some kind of injury at the moment. So maybe it might be something to do with that. I mean, now, just because somebody's wearing two wrist supports doesn't mean they're actually injured. We don't know his background here. He may have just put those on so that we... He looks like he's injured. So I don't know, but I don't like what the hands are happening in the hands there. Next thing I know, he's got a pipe and there's a single shoulder shrug on that. I don't have any issue with it. Single shoulder shrug on that. Some people smoke. Some people snort. Double shoulder shrug. Well, it's true some people smoke and some people do snort. That's accurate. Hey, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? Some people like cocaine. Some people like crack cocaine. Some people like to do it one way. Some people like to... That seems correct in what's happening there. So if that's correct, is it correct when he says, I am unsure that this guy ever had a pipe and I don't have a problem with it? Now, I'm not suggesting he does have not have a problem or have a problem with it, but maybe the pipe never happened. Maybe the pipe never actually happened because that combination of the double shoulder shrug and the single for me point towards possibly there is no pipe in this situation. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, a couple of things. Chase, while I agree with you that certain drug habits can develop that sniff, it is very specific when he snorts or when he sniffs right here. Very specific. Yeah, I'm an expert in sniffing, so I'll leave it to you. Well, just so you know, I mean, just as you pay attention, this is the same thing that people would point out that Trump, when he would win a point, would go, and people were all over Trump for that, if you recall. So it's one of those days. Trump was also not a self-admitted. Oh, yeah. Agreed. But you'll hear a difference. If you listen to him here, you'll hear him constantly adjusting, but there are a couple of points that he brings up that I'm paying close attention to. And if it only happened, if it happened randomly throughout, only not right after a point, I wouldn't pay as much attention. I agree with you, however. So a couple of things. When a person is going to try to con you, they're going to be a threshold thinker. And by that, I mean, when you do something like elicitation, you have to pay really close attention to the person you're listening information from to know whether they're picking up that you're doing it or not. And cons are fantastic at it. It's what they do best. They pay attention to see if you're catching on or if you're not, and they're really good at looking for that mark. So they're threshold thinking. So let's pay attention to see if we see that in this guy. If he stops short when he feels like you're not believing him, or if he just continues to embellish. It's really easy for people to tell a story that is not about the person they're talking about. It could be another person that he's talking about entirely. Somebody he thought looked like, bro, don't know. But let's just remember that as well. He is, however, in the past tense still, when he's talking about this, until he hits a certain point. We always say that past tense might not mean anything if you intermingle them constantly because you may not understand how to use conjugation of verbs. But in this case, he's very specific. He is conjugating in past tense when he says, he's running through a list of things where he says he brought up, he knew. Then when you get down to the point where he starts to talk about him going out and coming back, when he comes back with tense changes like that. There could be a reason for that. We'll talk about that more as we go through. When he is addressed and put on notice when he's asked one hard question the first time he's challenged, when Tucker says he said that, watch the movement, watch what happens, his cadence shifts, and he goes from passive voice, he goes to passive voice, but it's still in past tense when he says that was made clear. Why not yes? He said that yes or no, that was made clear. That's interesting because now we can say, well, I misunderstood. Even when he says that, Tucker goes, huh, something like that. That's an odd way for Tucker even noticing he's in the room with him. I won't keep going here, he starts to say he goes out and comes back, I start putting Coke on the tray, he's changed tense. As he gets back to limo, his feet really start to move and then he crosses his body and adapts it his arm. Now, could it be itching from these braces? Yeah, these braces can be used for a lot of things. I mean, I've known people had carpal tunnel, they put them on after surgery, so it's possible. I don't know. None of us know, we're looking at what we see. When he's asked, and he's poked it with that question, he goes however, go exactly back to the same line. I start to put. Bullet number two to me is, I happen to notice he pulls something out of his pocket. Somewhat, active sexually and drug-wise in the limo. He's shifted now to passive and he sniffs in one other element right after he says those words. It's just where it lands for me that makes me pay more attention. Do I believe him at this point? Well, all the red flags are starting to pile up, but it's tough to say it's a lie until you get asked a hard, direct question. Chase, to your point, I wish we were only questioning instead of it being Tucker. Chase, what do you got? Were any of you guys watching that this morning and looking at those windows and trying to see if they were screens? Yeah, I was. Yeah. I couldn't get over it. I was looking at the windows more than the people and I had to go back and look again. Chase, I was worried that he's on a floodplain and he's going to get wiped. If it rains heavily, man, your woodshed's gone, your fishing shed's gone. That's right. So, Greg, you brought up when he said that was made clear. I think it's possible this might seem avoidant, but I think it's likely advice from an attorney not to specifically quote or detail that something someone specifically said to him. And this is also where you're going to see self-soothing, stress response. You'll see his feet start moving underneath him and you'll see eye closure here while he's talking. And this self-soothing behavior is a stress response that serves two purposes. On one hand, it's a behavior we engage in to calm ourselves down through self-contact, like when you rub your hand on a baby to comfort them. We're just doing it to ourselves. On the other hand, there's this foot movement and a good rule of thumb is that the further a body part is from the head, the harder it is to bring under conscious control during anxiety. And that's mine. Maybe I picked that up somewhere. It might have been Joe. I don't know. So when we get stressed out there is a little spike in adrenaline and our body is trying to just burn off or expend this energy from the adrenaline in any way that it can. Everything else in the video looks to be like I don't see large cluster spikes like we see in other videos. I'm just not seeing them and it looks to be pretty candid just a bizarre baseline because this how he's saying stories here is exactly how he does it on YouTube. He's got 500 clips of himself on a radio show talking and talking and talking for 100 hours. And I went through a lot today because this is what I wanted to have and I wanted to make sure. So I'll pass on this one and the shoulder shrugging and eye closure like this little shoulder shrugging when it's like I didn't know who he was. I think this is innocence like well I don't know this kind of a more feminine innocence expression of well I'm not sure I don't I don't know and you've seen people do that in your own life as well. That's all here. Scott, what do you got? You guys see more of those left shoulder shrugs and I agree Chase I keep thinking that must be part of his baseline to be doing that something he's very comfortable with because we're seeing it over and over and over again as we go through this. The interesting thing is his volume voice volume drops slightly not a whole lot but it does drop a little bit and like Mark was talking about he's adapting with that hand and he's given this story is familiar to him and we can tell he's told a thousand times because as he gives that list of things his voice go up to the end it lills upward toward the end during his list and that lets us know he's just going through that talk you know just talking reading off a list from memory something that he's not maybe just rehearsed but something he's just told so many times is just coming out like Greg said just by a rote he just knows it. Now about the coke he continues with this boredom that the lilting and the boredom and it's not like he's loping he's just going through he's just telling the same thing over and over again so that's why it seems like he's probably is low energy but it just seems so boring because he's bored with it too but that's one of the things you look for is that boring delivery like that let you know that he's someone's told that story before and one thing I've noticed over the years is this thing that I call loose gazing or you're sort of looking off and just telling as you recall all your story you're just looking out which is what he does 80% of the time he's looking over here and Tucker's over there and he's just gazing off and telling the story and talking about what's happened I think that's the way he's remembering what happened remembering his structure that he set up to tell it that way and he's given a lot of details for something that happened about 23 years ago he's got some very specific things he talks about in there so that bothered me too things that I don't remember what I was doing 23 years ago I'm no clue, I could if you put a gun in my head I'd say you just you have to kill me because I do not know what I was doing 23 years ago no clue whatsoever it's probably in a studio somewhere or something but I don't remember the specifics of it and if something had happened really big I've got really big things that have happened I can tell those stories but I don't know what year it was you know you get past 10 years it's like I don't know man back in the early 2000s or in the 90s or in the 80s I don't know specifically what year so that kind of makes me wonder what's happened in there his arms are actually acting to me it looks like as a barrier as he sticks them out like this and to your point Chase I agree with that part about looking innocent not that he's trying to look innocent but I think that might be a natural feminine trait of his is try to look small and put his arms together and throw those shoulders around a little bit because it's it's nothing masculine but it's he does the shoulder pop so many times I don't think I can't tell if he's I don't want to attribute that and say every time you see that that means deception because that goes against everything we stand for there are no absolutes but he does it a whole lot so that's why I'm thinking it might just be part of his baseline and if I interviewed this guy I would ask him since he's gotten so detailed I'd want to say in a casual way so what was Obama what do you have on and I'd say what else did you and the limo driver talk about and how did you feel do you tired or what was going on that day when you got there how was it what was the weather I want to know some other specifics around that if you can get that specific on those things he should be able to be specific about the other minutiae of what was going on around those details as well so he should have those because he's been on spot on for all these details so far and remember this is just some guy that this limo driver happened to know and calls up and they go over to a bar and he's standing outside a senator representative but yeah yeah or yeah representative whatever but he's but it just it's to me just flags flying everywhere on this flags flying everywhere on this I'll leave it that mark what do you got I think I've been I think that's us all of us yeah quick question I think I read this guy's written a book is that right yes he has you know well a lot of the road and the left stuff can be what did I say in the book you know everybody who's written the book knows hey you're going to get questioned about something but again we'll have it match and you're trying to pass that to so yeah so he's got a book what's it called you know I don't have a little title because it's brilliantly titled so that it looks like Obama wrote it with him yeah really it on there really put together so initially you go oh wow this guy has written a book with Barack Obama it's it's it's cleverly cleverly done okay jeez I hope we throw an image of that up I want to see it with a book one of those tape replays I said when I brought up the fact that I could use something to wake up he immediately knew what I was referring to had made it clear that I was looking for coke and I really was and had made the suggestion that he knew where we could get it and we left and go get it interesting did he say what he did for a living no I had no idea that he was a representative in the Illinois house I had no idea he was in politics I just knew that he was supposedly married and at the time was going through some some issues with the marriage did he said that that was made clear huh did he say what kind of issues no remember so you said I'm looking for something to wake up he knows you're referring to cocaine I know where to get it what happens next we get back in the limo the driver takes us wherever it is the Barack had instructed him to take us I had given Barack two hundred and fifty dollars to pay for coke he gets out comes back I start putting a line on a CD trade to snort and you're in the limo yep driving or parked no the driver's driving I start to put a line on a CD trade and I just happen to notice that he pulls something else out of his pocket and next thing I know he's got a little pipe and he's smoking so I don't have an issue with it I mean some people smoke some people snort smoking the cocaine yes so as I'm doing a line I just start this is the part where you you know you kind of make your move to to see where things are going so I just started rubbing my hand along his thigh to see where it was going and it went the direction I had intended it to go so the night became somewhat active sexually and drug wise in the limo so you hit on him did he seem shocked by that not at all yeah I mean if you're smoking crack with a stranger in the back of a limo like you got to imagine things go crazy places well not only imagine it I look at it this way I look I've done a lot of crazy things in my lifetime I'm a pretty good judge of character and I pretty much know whether or not I can move in a certain direction with an individual I didn't feel that I was going in the wrong direction I just wasn't so sure how much I could trust the individual right at first and that was probably one of my bigger concerns but the fact that I was already becoming somewhat buzzed you kind of throw caution to the land you weren't sure you could trust the individual what does that mean when you meet someone out of the blue and you go to a level that you're doing drugs with or you're giving money to purchase drugs or even for sexual activity you have to be sure that you can trust them and when I say trust I mean that you're not going to end up being robbed or that you're not going to end up having a knife stuck into you right you know from one direction or another or that you're not going to pull up somewhere and all of a sudden the car door is going to open and you got five people pulling you out of it so that's what I mean when I say trust someone and you and you've been around at this point oh yeah your life big time yeah right so probably not your first time in a situation like this not at all and and that's why I said I pretty much know where I can go and yeah at what point alright chase what do you got I don't see a lot of deception clusters right here there's a few stress indicators like self soothing expending some nervous energy but I don't think they're directly tied to one specific context or topic like at all there's one thing I think would be a valuable moment to show you here that's when he picks up the coffee cup to sit to take a sip and this happens right as he says not at all about the lack of reaction to him hitting on Obama when somebody picks up a drink because it's due to social stress and they're trying to buy time or comfort themselves they're going to act very differently than what you're seeing here there's a couple things you're going to see in someone taking a sip because of stress number one you're going to see eye contact avoidance this is so they can think or process how to respond or how to behave you're going to see eyebrow relaxation because they're trying to maintain a look of neutrality or of comfort on their face they're going to see a small shift in ventral orientation this is where our shoulders are pointed there you're going to see a slight maybe a little bit of a turn away and they're going to use the time that it takes to set the cup down to watch the cup the whole time as it's being set down so they can extend the lack of eye contact and the non-drinking hand if they're using one will close slightly you'll see the fingers kind of pull in towards the palms you're also going to see increase in stiffness of the body you're going to see a lack of eye contact as long as possible and there's literally none of that here so pretty comfortable if it is deception he's more comfortable with it than 99% of the people we've ever taken a look at as far as I'm concerned open to being proven wrong or whatever it is that Mark says so often that's clever Mark yeah nothing nothing that clever I didn't know how much I didn't know how much I could trust the individual says Sinclair and Tucker gives a look of contempt when he says the word right and there's contempt now is that contempt for Sinclair or is that contempt for the guy Obama I'm not a mind reader I don't know what it's contempt about maybe there's something else happening in Tucker Carlson's head that means there's a moment of contempt but I would say and watch out for that there's a moment of contempt there is it that he started to become contemptuous for the story or is it that the story has initiated something he can show contempt around and that subject and the subject of Obama it's interesting then what Tucker does later on is to put a neutral face on and the camera comes up nice and close on that and that neutral face holds now the use of neutral face has been around in cinematography for a long long time I think personally started by an actor called baby face Nelson and then that neutral face being taken on by Buster Keaton really well the idea was is is you get a story going you get action going the audience are following that story and they have some desires and some wants that are going with that story and then you come up close on the central performer of that story and that actor goes to neutral so that the audience can project their feelings their intentions intentions really clearly onto the lead actor here I wonder whether that's what Tucker Carlson's doing actually quite well there which is to go to neutral so that we the audience have a moment to be able to project our feelings for this story so when you see Tucker's face there what do you project onto that because I don't think you can read anything from his face but maybe you think you can and that's probably a Rorschach test for you and how you're viewing this story right now just I love Tucker's context as well number one that I worry that he's going to get wiped out by a flood very very soon never in England we have a saying which is never live anywhere with the word on in the title because at some point you'll get flooded like you don't matter where you are you're on Thames or you're on Y or you know it's you're going underwater at some point so Tucker I'm worried about about where you live there I love this kind of fishing shed wood shed kind of thing and I think it's like a big pipe that he looks like he's got upon the shelf there so it's like so that's a nice piece of kind of mirroring in my mind but maybe it isn't a pipe and maybe it's just I want it to be a pipe because there's been talks of pipe and I'll turn anything into a pipe at this point I don't know again this whole environment is a bit of a Rorschach test for for my world so we got to get back into working out like what is really actually happening here and what do we want to happen here and how much are we projecting that on to everything that's going on Greg what do you got on this one yeah chase with you on a lot of this one this is a tough one to read a lot of deception into the one thing that I would say is he's typically been going here looking and what we think of as emotional accessing and the only time I see him go back over here and make real left eye contact I'm not talking about just avoidance but when he stops and goes over there it's usually been about a detail it's been about a detail now let's talk about wrote wrote becomes something that you you know if all the song lyrics you know are in that spot in your head because wherever you go all the time for auditory memory is also where you remember what you've repeated over and over and over and over and over to yourself he's been doing this since 2008 that's a long time so whatever details he's got in there they're probably going to be over there does that mean they're true doesn't mean they're true doesn't mean they're not true which is why the longer a person is told a story the harder it gets this could be the Bob Lazar of Obama scandal quite simply if you tell the story long enough it becomes wrote for you so it's going to be hard for us to say absolutely X or Y there is however one great example of using request for approval and it's not in deception when I call request for approval when you raise your forehead and in this case what he's doing is he's doing it as he talks about his thoughts he's asked what he thinks about something you see his eyes and this is a reason I'm pretty certain that where he's going to his left is wrote memory because when he's asked a conjecture question watch his eyes go to the other side of his head that's where they should go if a person is remembering and you ask a hard question they have to think of the answer to they should go to the opposite side of the head you should be looking for that so that makes me think that when he's explaining what he's saying and he's holding his brow up in this case it's do you understand me I don't see a lot of markers of deception I see those markers of rote but I'm going to give them benefit of a doubt because if you tell the story a thousand times you're going to have the same facts come up Scott what do you got all right Mark and I are into old comedy stuff Mark collects comedy memorabilia and I collect old comedians autographs I've got it ready from the Stooges and the Mark's brothers I've got all the classics and so Mark you brought up Buster Keaton now and this is something I didn't know for a long time was Buster Keaton he was so funny because he wouldn't you wouldn't see an expression on his face he would do all this this crazy stuff but he would just get up and look just deadpan he's did it but the reason for that and when he was a little kid he used to do this thing where he'd fall down the stairs and then get up and have that face and it just slayed it just killed all the adults I thought it was the problem and what the problem was is he couldn't move his face his face was paralyzed he couldn't smile he couldn't laugh he would talk and talk about sad things and couldn't look sad he talked about funny things but couldn't smile so that's what made him so funny it was just natural for him to do that that's often what we're talking about but if we're talking about old comedians I'll get in there with you now here's something that bothered me when he says I know whether or not I can move in a certain direction with an individual this that made me go do what now because that's like serial killer talk that's the same style of talk it's I'm not saying he's a serial killer but that's the same style of approach that BTK used he talked about people as projects cons will talk about people and they'll call them stooges and rubes and different names like marks that kind of thing and so that I think that might have leaked out on him when he talks about individuals that because he doesn't he's not seeing or not talking about him as there I guess he has talked about him as humans but when he says individuals like that that made me pay attention really quickly that really really made me go what and the comfort and ease that he talks about this that reminds me of a con as well now earlier I was talking about telling stories here's why it's so important he's got a name Yuri Hassan and he's at Princeton or that he's a he studied at Princeton and he ran all of a lot of his studies at Princeton and he's a neuroscientist but he's focused on cognitive studies and so here's what he found out when it comes to stories you do what's called a brain sink because what he did was he did this he took 12 students and he put them in an fMRI machine and he recorded their brains and what was happening with their brain as this woman told him a story and she told she was Russian but she told it in English and these are all American students that went through this study and as they looked at their at her fMRI and in their fMRI at the same time when she told the story they found out that when a specific part of her brain would light up after she told the story for a couple of not very long for maybe a minute or something like that then that same part of their brain would light up and it got so close they would light up almost at the same time different sections of the brain and so they started matching each other as they went and he called that a brain sink so that's why when you go to the movies and everybody jumps at the same time or starts thinking the same thing at the same time not just because something jumps out at you but you're all expecting specific things because you're sinking with that movie in other words so people do that with each other but what this guy is doing is what I call a mini sink where he tells sections of the story and tells really short parts of the story and gets you locked in that way so you sink up with him and you start believing him and that's the way cons get you to trust him because things start sounding real and they start sounding like they could work and they start sounding true because your brain is sinking with that person's brain as they tell you this story and you just and once you start okay you started agreeing with things and you're probably going to agree with most everything and that's how you get conned they build your trust that way that's confidence man or confidence woman they build your confidence and this is going to work and they have confidence saying this is going to work man this is what you do so it's very important to pay attention when somebody starts telling you something and it seems like it's in story form they've got these things almost little sections of each story as they go along anyway so that's what I was going to say about stories are we good right Greg why are you in such a good mood one of those tape replays so you hit on him did he seem shocked by that not at all yeah I mean if you're smoking crack with a stranger in the back of a limo like you got to imagine things that might go crazy places well not only imagine it I look at it this way look I've done a lot of crazy things in my lifetime I'm a pretty good judge a character and I pretty much know whether or not I can move in a certain direction with an individual I didn't feel that I was going in the wrong direction I just wasn't so sure how much I could trust the individual at first and that was probably one of my bigger concerns but the fact that I was already becoming somewhat buzzed you kind of throw caution to the land you weren't sure you could trust the individual what does that mean when you meet someone out of the blue and you go to a level that you're doing drugs with or you're giving money to purchase drugs or even for sexual activity you have to be sure that you can trust them and when I say trust I mean that you're not going to end up being robbed or that you're not going to end up having a knife stuck into you or another or that you're not going to pull up somewhere and all of a sudden the car door is going to open and you got five people pulling you out of it that's what I mean when I say trust someone and you and you've been around at this point big time so probably not your first time in a situation like this not at all and that's why I said I pretty much know where I can go and at what point so you start rubbing his leg and he's I mean I think I was to be totally blunt with you like a man who's not into gay sex would be like whoa sounds a little loud trust me if it was something that you were not interested in and you're right I've had guys that I read wrong that would literally try to break your hand for sure if you went in that route so it's not like this was something that he wasn't into it's not something that he was shocked by shocked by you don't get excited and you don't unbutton your pants and you don't just sit there and let it happen so it definitely wasn't Barak's first time that much I'm absolutely certain of and I would almost be willing to bet it wasn't as lost Greg what do you got hold on one second this is four yeah it's cool okay now we're back to past tense he went from future you're from present tense back to past tense here now he's got this time he does there's a good example of an uncertain shoulder shrug if you want to see a really good example one it's Tucker when Tucker is saying what he thinks you see that one shoulder rise I think that's uncertainty maybe I'm wrong but here's what I think so it's a good opportunity to see that this guy is he tells his story he's back to that moving that one shoulder and for me when we always say that means the person may or may not be certain with what they're saying I don't think it's a case we said it early on people can get to so quirky that it's just that so I think we're all on the same page there there's emotional I accessing again that downright when he's talking about other men in the past and reading them wrong and he then goes to I blocking and request for approval as he's talking about that he only opens his eyes and makes hard eye contact when he says it was not Obama's first time and there's riveted eye contact when he says that now is that an indicator he's being deceptive good question what it's a good indicator of is he wants you to hear him say those words or he wouldn't open his eyes and I lock with you to get that point across the rest of this is just baseline for him that's a deviation that's different there's a reason he's doing it Mark what do you got yeah so look the use of the idea of trust me and the enforcement of that idea at this at this point now this I'm putting together with everything that we've seen so far or the judgments that I'm making of everything that we've seen so far and I don't like his use of the idea of trust me at this point that the the facts shouldn't need any trust the evidence the proof shouldn't need any trust involved it should be apparent and they should support themselves well maybe he's worried that it's it's not enough maybe he has been called out on this story many many times why wouldn't he be there's a lot invested in the idea of Obama and anything contrary to some people's investment in that idea you know breaks a lot of codes for them so but still I don't I don't like it he shouldn't really need that and one last thing on this which is just something I love I love the irony of somebody saying hey you know you you get things wrong and you're going to get your hands broken and there he is with two things on his so you know there's an irony of somebody saying hey you know I'm a good judge character I really know how to handle myself if you go at people in the wrong way you know you're going to get your hands broken there he is with two you know wrist braces on there's just a beautiful I'm not saying you know he did something wrong and he got his wrist broken on this just saying there's a lovely irony to somebody saying that at this at this point and maybe a little bit of truth to it I I don't know chase what you got on this one when he's talking about guys that he's read wrong before this is when we're seeing very strong emotional accessing and very likely that's probably an emotional memory for him but then he says it's not something that he wasn't into this is the first time we're hearing a strong upward tone and typically this is a request for social agreement I want to I want you to kind of nod or kind of let me know that you you understand what I mean and then he says I almost would be willing to bet you it wasn't his last here we have a shoulder shrug uncertain language I closure and this is a cluster here but not really a deceptive because he's just making an assumption and he's not saying a fact so there's no deception he's just saying an assumption there's probably an attorney who briefed him on what's legally allowed to be said and all these behaviors form a cluster of uncertainty here but he's literally communicating uncertainty but he's still in the left side of both of the baseline quadrants so far Scott I could go say the same thing you guys said so let's not waste time and move on one of those tape replays um so you start rubbing in his leg and he's I mean I think I would just be totally blunt with you like a man who's not into gay sex would be like whoa sounds so loud trust me if it was something that you were not interested in yeah and you're right I've had guys that I read wrong that would literally try to break your hand for sure if you went in that route so it's not like this was something that he wasn't into it's not something that he was shocked by shocked by you don't get excited and you don't unbutton your pants and you don't just sit there and let it happen so it wasn't it definitely wasn't Barak's first time that much I'm absolutely certain of and I would almost be willing to bet you it wasn't as lost so what happened after afterwards I actually went back to my hotel I had specifically asked that he drop Barak off first but for some reason he and Barak chose that they would drop me off at the hotel first and then he would take Barak so Barak actually made the drive out to Gurney which is a suburb outside of Chicago to the hotel for me to be dropped off what hotel was it it was the comfort in and Gurney ooh it sounds depressing well you have to remember it was 99 and it was close to the Great Lakes Naval facilities but I got dropped off they left the next day was somewhat interesting because he ends up showing up at my hotel which I thought was somewhat weird but he wanted some more he showed up he showed up I mean I had no warning I was in the room there's a knock on the door I opened the door and he's standing there and he's standing there with more coke and he comes in and it was just like a quick you know rehash or re-run from the night before exact same program was he smoking again so Barak Obama smokes crack little sex on him and like I said the only reason I had come out in about it is I had reached out to the campaign even in 2007 only because I saw all these kids getting excited about it okay wait just so how did that end like same way you get off you finish smoking you leave like thanks bye okay all right Mark what do you got yeah I love this so first of all when you watch back have a look at that beautiful face of astonishment on Tucker there which I truly think he's created look he's a great you know sometimes I love Tucker Carlson's interviews sometimes I hate them I vacillate between the between the two but he is a great entertainer that I think that's that's for certain he's just a stuck amazement astonishment look that he manages to hold there I think he's just a lovely piece of entertainment here's a more great entertainment I open the door and he's standing there he's standing there with more coke that's a scene from a film that's a scene from a film that's almost the scene from catch me if you can where he goes you must have you must have dropped this it's that it's that image it's beautiful you imagine but so Obama's there the opens the door Obama's there and he's like well it's like you could not write a better shot now I'm not saying that this didn't happen I'm just saying it is beautifully put together alongside Tucker's look of of astonishment that you know it's enough for me to want to lose reason on this and go I love this idea let's play some more by the way there's multiple single shoulder shrugs on that on that moment now again I think we have to go back and go look this is a quirky guy there's all kinds of reasons why why that could be happening and your rights chase some of those shoulder shrugs are almost kind of delicate kind of dancing that's going on playfulness kind of teasing this is kind of wobble to him in this this motion forward shoulder that could easily be you know misconstrued for a shoulder shrug so there's a lot going on there I also love in this how Tucker Carlson stops his redirect there he's going to redirect off to another part of the story he goes wait what what what what how did this end so Tucker wants to go no don't redirect onto something else right now and I don't think that's about he doesn't want him to shaft and redirect I think it's because he wants him to get back to the hot spot of the scene of like let's finish the hotel room let's finish that scene before we get onto something else um uh oh and then he ends with it goes how did this end same way you get off you finish smoking you leave well hang on he's changed places now now he's the character of Obama and now he's telling us this is what you do no he should be saying well this is what he did this is what happened he's saying this is what you do in this situation and he's become the other now I'm not saying he hasn't done that in that situation I'm sure he has maybe done maybe that is what you do that's the social thing that you do in this situation but but it should be in this story that he's going here's what the guy did here's what Obama did here's what happened it's not happening interesting uh Scott what you got on this one all right so this guy has hired limousine service right they go pick up a crack head and when their evening is over the limousine driver he hired and the crack had they picked up decide that they're going to take him back to the hotel first and then take the crack head home they decided that he's paying for it but they decided that like he has no control over what's happening that doesn't sound right to me either then he says afterwards I went back to my hotel I actually went back to my hotel why don't you say actually I actually went back to my hotel what the why would you say I actually went back no kidding because I got a feeling this is something's not right here some something's not right in this part then it's like a big deal when he says Barack actually made the drive out to Gurney actually made the drive out to Gurney why would he say actually this something's not right here it doesn't sound right and then then how does Obama know what room he's in keep in mind and you could say well he probably told him the room number no because he was surprised that he showed up couldn't believe he showed up and you think Barack Obama's going to walk into a hotel out in the middle of nowhere and go hey what's this guy you know Larry Sinclair what's his room number they like they're going to give it out to him but if he was Barack Obama they'd say yes sir you you can hear it is I'll tell you what it is no this it makes no sense whatsoever and notice the lack of details there when he's talking about that when you watch this again no they didn't get his into the minutiae like he did in all the other stuff the story from this big long wide story that happened down to this thing and he puts it on all because it's the same thing that happened last night no it's probably close if the story is trying to tell but he would have added more details in that if that had happened if what had happened before it happened because he would tell the story just like he would he would tell the second story just like he told the first story had a lot more details in it and then when he Mark you covered the part about the knock on the door and showed up with coax I won't go over that but then he says it was just a rehash or a rerun of the night before notice how he moves back a little bit when he's doing that that just suggests that because we know quite often a person not every time when they're being deceptive they'll move back a little bit I know it's not a lot with entrepreneurs when you're talking to the financial person they don't know what they're talking about they're not sure they'll take it like it's just a little half step back or they'll move back a little bit as you're talking to her so that's one thing to look for if you're not sure if somebody's being honest with you or not that's you guys covered the other stuff Greg what do you got? Yeah this is where I start to go earlier in the thing I was going to case quirky as hell and here he's back to past tense talking about something as intimate as he had gone to present tense earlier those two things are not alike so I immediately want to say okay why why something's up why I don't know if you prep your story and you're really well prepared and you're not going to be questioned and not probed you're more likely to give out very thorough details because you've thought about what's coming when you're starting to get probed in that last minute you're having to change what you're saying then you get more clipped and more cut so he's back to his downright eye accessing where he is you know where he is coming up with details when he's talking until he gets to details about Obama because details about Obama then he goes back to his left he's starting to go to a new place this downrights where he lives when he's telling facts and we just know that's kind of how it works his cadence shifts to when he's talking about Obama when he says to actually made the drive out to Gurney and he's bobbing his head to illustrate the point when he does it he does left eye accessing when he talks about to a new place not here where we call it wrote but left eye accessing up high when he talks about the comfort in and Gurney okay so now we got a pretty good feel for what his visual memory or his visual recall looks like when he says that Obama showed up and he's talking about the baggie there mark as well you see the little concern in his forehead the first time I've seen that which is odd why did concern show up in his forehead just for the first time then when he he does a soul that single shoulder shrug pops up again and he starts the uptalk chase I think the last time where you were talking about the uptalk he's trying to socialize did that work did it work did it work and then he does a lot of eye movement moving around but then he locks eyes as he's telling his story there's a deviation from what we've seen up to now we've seen him down we've seen him over to his left now his eyes are all over the place until he locks eyes and when he's getting it Tucker starts to get agitated I think Mark when Tucker does this I think it's something else I don't think it's him saying hold on hold on I want to hear the rest of that story I think he's trying to stop him from moving to the next part of the story because in the next clip we're going to cover he does go to that part of story and it's minutes later and we're going to see Tucker cue him to do it which makes me think this guy has been prepared either by somebody handing him a script or by somebody running through his story with him beforehand because Tucker does some verbal fluency loss and then he raises regulators to control the conversation that's all interesting because now I'm starting to say there's a change there's a deviation of what he's done to now and some reason for that so let's look and see if we can figure that out does he get a good hold on Tucker before he starts to feed him really outlandish things that's usually what cons do Chase what you got so Great Lakes Illinois is not where the naval academy is it is Navy boot camp that's where I went to boot camp and graduated it right there in 99 as well but right out there in Gurney that's where the A schools are that's where you learn your job and your trades and stuff when you graduate but I think the I you shift that he makes there between like I did this and this is what you do you do this you do this and you leave that is his baseline on the 300 videos of that he has on YouTube then when he says actually I think that actually means he actually drove out to me I think that's a just a small thing of him seeing himself as having some status to where you know that person would have driven out to him and I think that's possible there they're still to me there's still no clusters there's not a cluster of behavior around a topic a very specific event there's a rhythm to his speech I accessing is a little bit different here in this the social behavior is about the same the pronouns are where they should be there's not an absence of pronouns which we typically look for or nothing's really skipped over or concealed there's no unusual spikes in ambiguity or spots in the story lacking a lot of detail not a lot of hesitation with the prodding questions from Tucker so they're instantaneous answers which we see very often in truth tellers maybe a borrowed story like we talked about now we'll wrap that up at the end there's no attempt to make himself look perfect or to add details to make Obama look less good or less than himself he doesn't add in extra negativity there which we would see in somebody who is on some kind of campaign and there's also no softening of severity or psychological distancing the only times we're hearing something glossed over we are hearing things glossed over is when he's not wanting to say the acts that were done that might be offensive or inappropriate but he's happy to confirm those the moment Tucker says so you did this, this and this and he says yes with zero hesitation whatsoever for me anyway I follow change in context first and I really it's a bizarre human being so I wanted to find all the videos I could this morning to make sure that I had a baseline so I'm against the grain on this one I guess am I last? apparently you're going against us man let's see people always say y'all never go against each other I like this one for that very reason that we're going to have differing opinions and it is a good one for that yeah one of those tape replays so what happened after? afterwards I actually went back to my hotel I had specifically asked that he drop Barack off first but for some reason he and Barack chose that they would drop me off at the hotel first and then he would take Barack so Barack actually made the drive out to Gurney which is a suburb outside of Chicago to the hotel for me to be dropped off what hotel was it was the Comfort Inn in Gurney ooh it sounds depressing well you have to remember it was 99 yeah and it was close to the Great Plain Great Lakes Naval facilities yeah but I got dropped off they left the next day was somewhat interesting because he ends up showing up at my hotel room which I thought was somewhat weird but he wanted some more so when you say he showed up he just he showed up I mean I had no warning I was in the room there's a knock on the door I opened the door and he's standing there with more coke and he comes in and it was just like a quick you know rehash or rerun from the night before exact same program was he smoking again so Barack Obama smokes crack and then you perform little sex on him and like I said the only reason I had come out about it is I had reached out to the campaign even in 2007 only because I saw all these kids getting excited about it okay wait just so how did that end same way you get off you finish smoking you leave like thanks bye so what did you do you said you reached out to the campaign well I didn't do anything in 2004 but when he announced his run for 2008 I did reach out to the campaign in late 2007 because I had seen a lot of these college kids talking about how thrilled they were how there was a candidate who was completely honest about his entire life his drug use you know what he did when he was in school you know the constant back and forth one minute is yes I did cocaine when I was younger or no I never did cocaine but I smoked weed so I just simply pointed out that all I was asking was look why don't you just simply come out and say I did coke and I've done it as recently as 1999 you know just tell the truth put it out there and be honest and let it stay as the truth rather than this back and forth um never did hear anything back from them immediately who did you reach out to do you remember I reached out to actually David Axelrod's office in Chicago I'm trying to remember the letters because it was actually three letters and did you say I had sex with Barack Obama this is the interesting part my first contact with the campaign never mentioned the sex whatsoever um that was actually brought to my attention by someone who eventually reached out to me in late 2007 claiming to be with the campaign but wasn't with the campaign what do you mean that was pointed out to you so you never told anyone in the Obama campaign you did sex with Barack Obama not in 2007 no interesting but they knew yep how well that's weird I'm assuming Barack himself because the phone calls that I got in late 2007 came from a gentleman that I have repeatedly identified as Donald Young and it was Donald Young who had mentioned to me that the campaign was not going to acknowledge the sex and the drug interaction and I was somewhat taken back because like I said I had never mentioned the sex to the campaign at all at that point I had not been in 2008 but I had not in 2000 okay that is amazing alright Chase where you got still not seen a whole lot of clusters uh and I mean based on changes to his behavior then the clusters of behavior the context that's going on here uh there's one point that's a good illustrator of his feelings here in this video when he's saying I had not mentioned the sex up to that point near the end of this clip you're going to see his chin go up I had not mentioned it prior to this point this upward movement of the chin is a chin jut is what it's commonly called and a lot of mammals do this and it's often a challenge or like really making a strong stand so his credibility in his mind in this story if it's true was proven by the campaign not him and he feels I think at this point that finally proves it so he's feeling this internal surge of confidence that someone else proved his point and mammals typically do this to challenge each other like you see people before they get into fights their arms spread out their chin goes up this is exposing the brachial artery the carotid artery we're exposing all of these arteries if you think of what we do in fear it makes our bodies cover it's kind of a very very reliable thing I'll just leave it at that for the video Scott, what do you got? This is why I'm not really going for body language the whole time because he's so quirky and there's so much stuff going on there it's really tough to nail down a lot of these things that are happening with him but now he starts talking about it bothered him that Obama wasn't being honest he wasn't being honest about his drug use about being gay now keep in mind this guy is on the record a con he's done prison time at least three times I believe it's three times he's a stolen money through checks bad checks, stealing checks forging, all kinds of stuff he got in trouble for dealing drugs and he didn't get in trouble for it but I saw him talking about it a lie detector test earlier with I think the White House or something that was all video and he said himself I didn't get in trouble for trafficking people across the border illegal aliens now this guy is all of a sudden worried about being ethical being the ethics of a politician but where is this coming from people like this don't have ethics people like this don't care what happens to you when they take your money people like this are bad people this guy I'm telling you is a con this is the way they act this is the way they talk everything is set up perfectly for that everything he's talking about he's not an ethical person his morality isn't number one thing for him but all of a sudden he's worried about morality he's worried about ethics no that's not the way this thing works I think it was probably thought what he could do is tell the story the reason he's calling their campaign because he could tell the story and they would pay him to shut up is what I think was probably I think is where it was because you guys were saying earlier he has a book which means after this he's going to write another book mark my words he'll have another book come out probably won't be as what was the title of his first book well it starts with Barack Obama okay his name and then colon then the title of the book yeah and then who actually wrote it very small down the bottom yeah yeah and he starts talking about his safety and worried about things if all this is true and if all these he's going to talk in a few minutes about this other guy being killed because he's trying to protect Obama then why isn't this guy taking a dirt nap why don't they come for him his logic is flawed and all this what he's saying happened and what I think his initial plan was I don't think they're mashing here at all I think he was trying to hit them up for money and say listen man if we give you this much where you shut up just go away and it didn't happen for him I don't think he's very smart if you listen to his sentence structure in the words he uses he's using the most simplistic language you possibly can for an American this is the same level as like a ninth grader this is the way ninth eighth and ninth graders talk nothing complex it's all really simple but in the most important parts in my opinion when he's being deceptive that's where he starts using the pictures and starts making a picture in your mind that locks in and you see these things happening that's what I'm talking about when it comes to the stories the way he's describing them you see these things happening he didn't say he came back to the hotel and we did some blow and then had sex we got the details those specific details so it makes a picture in your mind when I'm training entrepreneurs how to pitch that's one of the main things I teach is you have to create a picture in that person's mind that's really simple really super simple so they can pop it out and put in somebody else's head so as you're talking about what your product or service is you can just give them that picture because that person is going to go home that night and they're going to tell their wife or their person look I'm putting $1.2 million in this thing over here I'm sorry what is it what do you put on it it's this and then right in that person's day oh okay I see what you're talking about so you've got to make it super simple and that's what he's doing and maybe because he's got that figured out knows how to do it but that's what cons do that's why I'm not focusing on body language as much I'm focusing on what he's talking about and the what the story is telling us with the pictures that's making up here and the structure of his story as we go along all right Mark what do you got yeah so I think there is a baseline change here I think there's a baseline change in his rhythm his cadence yeah so so the tone of it the up and down tone of it the emotion of it and the rhythm of it in the in the pace of it as well and I think it's because he does get more emotional on this piece here what do I think the emotion is he is angry angry at the hypocrisy that he sees these college kids these young kids who see this icon this new icon and they think that this icon is perfect and this person is a drug user now is this person a drug user is Barack Obama a drug user probably I mean you know it's probable just simply because do people do drugs yes people people do the many people do drugs yeah lots of people do drugs is it possible or probable Barack Obama has and there are stories of that that this person yeah it's really it's really probable and so as somebody who's getting prosecuted for drug distribution as I'm now hearing from from somebody who's in that world and may well have even been selling it to people maybe college kids I don't I don't know I don't know who was selling it to and and be in front of the law about that and then you hear that these college kids are are almost worshiping this person who's a drug user as well that's got to feel really rotten like they should be in prison like they should be getting the hard end of this and I think that's what happens in his mind at this point I think the nub of this story here and why is there is that he doesn't like that the law has come down on him and it should come down on other people as well especially people who are held up high on a pedestal and it could be utterly accurate what he says that that Barack Obama has taken drugs I think it's very very probable that that happened just like it's very probable most everybody I meet and I go hey you taking drugs and if they go no I'm like me probably lying I mean you probably have I mean you have you know once of course you have once twice three times yeah you've done that haven't you yeah you have like so but you know and if I'd got prosecuted for that and they hadn't I'd be really upset about that anyway so I think there is a change here by the way we get some vocal clicks which we haven't heard before here's the interest that he clicks before here's the interesting part and then a click afterwards so he's going somewhere he's got he's going somewhere that he wants to mark out which may be even more extreme maybe me may have some deception in it or certainly he wants he wants us to know and he knows there's something big even bigger coming Greg what are you on this one yeah there's a hell of a lot of cutouts in this conversation what I mean by that is we start to think about cons look if a guy tells a story a million times if you ask me a story that I made up 500 years ago and I get to say it over and over and over and over and over and over I can say that casually if you don't poke and prod because you don't want to know the details then I get away with a lot and one of the things that's not happening here is critical thought and going after one example we're going to hear him later say where the phone records for Barack Obama for the night that he claims the first encounter happened okay good where your phone records about the guy who died I want to see that nobody's going to ask him that because Tucker is on the side of this coming out and the story coming out what I would want to see is poke details and go after them because you don't think of all those details you don't clearly think of those details or you wouldn't be bringing up Barack Obama's phone records so that for me is a place that we're missing and now one couple of notes here before I go into more on that but these details this interview actually shows up in our show like it just happened right after the last one but it's several minutes apart and if you pay attention you can see that Tucker's bringing him back to the story about what did you do listen to the stilted kind of tone of Tucker and what did you do you said you reached out he's feeding him a line so that he knows where they're going with the story next that's pretty clear Tucker smiling and nodding those are regulators to control the conversation and if you pay attention to this guy and when he's doing details about nothing his eyes are down to the right all that goes away when he starts telling this story he's in romance or a Scott and I would hard eye contact with that guy with the interviewer trying to get his point across and he's starting to do these details that are about things that you can't validate their half truths he met this guy and then this guy's killed you can't validate any of that that's how we get a Bob Lazar who said I used to work on this place and I can't tell you all about it because if I do you know I've violated my security clearance no come get me we all have run into this before and now he's calling in this new person who could say sorry but he was killed come on that's starting to feel like a con we usually tell you we don't leak information about what we see in later videos have to tell you in this one this is where it starts to sound like a condom when I go all the way back and say up front cons are looking for a mark the other thing I would say here is when we see the left eye break here I know somebody's gonna say well he's doing row nope if you pay attention his eye lock and his no details that matter are both the same but when he's breaking eye contact left he's not going looking for anything you can tell it's just a rapid movement it's just a break eye contact so pay attention look for what's different this look when I think about this and he goes and doesn't when last thing he does an association with axle rod I'm done when he gets to this point I'm starting to say okay now I'm getting details about things where he's claiming association where he's hiding behind something I stop trusting him more and more and more and it starts to fall apart it's all good so what did you do you said you reached out to the campaign well I didn't do anything in 2004 but when he announced his run for 2008 I did reach out to the campaign in late 2007 because I had seen a lot of these college kids talking about how thrilled they were how there was a candidate who was completely honest about his entire life his drug use what he did when he was in school the constant back and forth one minute is yes I did cocaine when I was younger or no I never did cocaine but I smoked weed so I just simply pointed out that all I was asking was look why don't you just simply come out and say I did coke and I've done it as recently as 1999 just tell the truth put it out there and be honest and let it stay as the truth rather than this back and forth never did hear anything back from them immediately who did you reach out to do you remember I reached out to actually David Axelrod's office in Chicago I'm trying to remember the letters because it was actually three letters and did you say I had sex with Barack Obama this is the interesting part my first contact with the campaign never mentioned the sex whatsoever that was actually brought to my attention by someone who eventually reached out to me in late 2007 claiming to be with the campaign but wasn't with the campaign what do you mean that was pointed out to you so you never told anyone in the Obama campaign you did sex with Barack Obama in 2007 no interesting but they knew yep how that's weird I'm assuming Barack himself because the phone calls that I got in late 2007 came from a gentleman that I have repeatedly identified as Donald Young and it was Donald Young who had mentioned to me that the campaign was not going to acknowledge the sex and drug interaction and I was somewhat taken back because like I said I had never mentioned sex to the campaign at all at that point I had in 2008 but I had not in 2000 okay that is amazing so I've read about your story it's been written about not very much but I've never read that this man Donald Young called you and told you that he knew you had sex with Barack Obama that was the contact in late 2007 that I had that originally came under the guys that they were part of the Obama campaign Donald Young was a choir director and a school teacher he was a choir director at Jeremiah Wright's church in Chicago the church that Barack Obama went to he was also a very openly gay black man but very well respected I had never met him I had not even realized that the person who was communicating with me had been killed until a good two months after so Donald Young is the choir director at Jeremiah Wright's church and is it publicly confirmed that he knew Barack Obama oh yes Donald Young's own mother has repeatedly said that she feels that her son died to protect Barack Obama it's just interesting that Donald Young would have called you he's not working directly for the campaign that we know of exactly but somehow he has a copy of your letter it sounds like maybe Donald Young was on cleanup duty somehow he has my phone number exactly and that's exactly what it was because like I said the first calls were I was led to believe that he was with the campaign the last conversation that I had had with Donald Young he had actually come clean and said that he had been asked to call me and that his job was to get as much information from me as far as who I had spoken to who I had given any information to and to get to them he had told me to be careful to watch myself and to understand that the Barack Obama campaign was not in any way shape or form going to acknowledge anything or come out about anything and he had made it clear that he had known Barack for quite some time and had had an intimate relationship with Barack for quite some time he told you that and that's when I knew that I could at least trust what I was being told originally I had made it clear I didn't feel comfortable with the phone call because something just didn't seem right but after a couple of calls it started to all fall into place and I had said the same thing to myself Mark, what do you got? It just heads in a great place which is church choir ministers and death and you know a whole other escalation of scandal which could you know could have happened am I thinking so far based on the cluster that I'm seeing across all of this doesn't seem probable it seems to me a new kind of even shinier object to move towards so we don't dwell on some of the illogic and troubling areas of the initial story something else troubling there two oil lamps in a wooden shed there like that is just not only is he built his shed next to what must be a floodplain at some point very worrying now he's got two oil lamps there no wonder he's got an axe at the back because if those things fall you're going to have to axe your way out of that it's a walk it's a disaster chase what do you got on this one yeah it's a hell of a shed so let me say something real quick hang on a second let me just say something about Mark real quick now Mark looks at things it looks at from that perspective that's why we all come from a different perspective and Mark brings up stuff like that let me tell you something the only time everybody goes so why doesn't Scott like Mark the only time Mark bugged me it really bothered me around Mark he had a zoom call and he had a t-shirt he didn't have on a suit or he didn't have a jacket it bothered me I was like what I just felt like I shouldn't look at him it was so weird that's actually but remember that you're sitting on the back porch man just talking and I was just like it was like a paint Floyd shirt or something it was really weird man it was so odd seeing you that way it really was I didn't like it at all how about this I'll do something for the last video I'll do something for the last video around that okay okay alright sorry Chase I said to say something yeah no worries so morally questionable if he you know was trying to get money from the campaign he's talking about ethics might not have any himself that doesn't make the story untrue it it doesn't take away from you know what we see here so I don't think a lot has changed from baseline here we hear him get emotional on his radio program there's a hundred and fifty five hundred something videos on his youtube channel there's a playlist he's got you can go check it out right now or after this video even better but nothing more than this chin jut at the moment he's revealing outside information that proves he's telling the truth a full confident chin jut the moment he's saying outside information that proves his story there that's all I got there Greg is he paying you for subscribers chase there's no clusters there's nothing no just mentioning his podcast or whatever it is that's all well my questions what made him famous how to get this radio show you know there comes that whole thing when you're protecting the story that is your underpinnings there's a whole lot that you put into it and these were like nineteen eighty nine eighty nine eighty nine through ninety four what's he talking about on there how many real radio show oh was it yeah that part yeah how many views did he have twelve or something it was double did it yeah so long time ago long time ago so yeah here's the thing for me he is when he's recalling details he's back down to his right that's like I said early in this guy I think that's fairly normal for him Tucker is broadcasting hey I'm going to get to that don't jump ahead I think he's doing that because the last example there's more association borrowing authority is a driver that people like to use when they're going to make a mark because if I can prove to you that I have this guy that is my source that I went to who was really good friends with Obama and no insinuation yet but we'll get there now this guy uses his forehead a lot you can't miss it because his forehead is up you get all that loose forehead skin that he's got there you can't miss it but in this case his forehead is nailed up the whole time he's talking he's doing those short stroke convincing nods at the mother has said that she thinks that her son died because that may or may not be true haven't looked it up could be true could not be true could also be a way of insinuating something else that we'll see in a minute but chase one of the things he does right there at the end of that is he does that immediate mouth closure that closes his lips really tight and then he goes it was I was led to believe there's some change in his baseline here there's no smoking gun of clusters agreed with you but this guy has a model where he is now bringing in people that give him authority he's borrowing authority attorney briefing when he says it was and then he corrects himself and it sounds like legal briefing to me possible could also just be he feels uncomfortable and stops and goes well I better be careful doing whatever yeah I mean at the end of the day he makes some pretty bold statements that are bolder than this in coming videos if that's what he's worried about so for me there's just a change and a change I always care about again if we control the question I say hold hold on a minute how do I know for sure you talk to this guy how do I know for sure let me see your phone records while we're talking we're back to that whole thing he's willing to throw other people under the bus for lack of phone records he's willing to do that kind of thing but he's not willing to do his own and look Obama should be willing to put his phone records out there too if that's the case that's all I got Scott let's talk about the sniffing again every time he tells something that can be proven that can be backed up or this common knowledge in this case that's when he starts that's when the sniffs get the loudest I think that's what he's most confident with the information he's given that's one of the times we're seeing a lot of sniffs there or the loudest sniffs and this is the loudest he's talked so far and that lets us know he's confident with what he's talking about so you put those two together for me I'm starting to cluster these things he's saying together as this as deceptive clusters but anyway that lets us know he's confident about what he's talking about however there are sections where we hear fading facts when he gets to the end of him he gets really quiet and fading facts you hear us talk about that on here that's where if someone is talking and they're not being they may be being deceptive then as they talk they lose confidence in what they're saying their brain's gone dude you shouldn't be saying this and as they talk they get quieter and quieter toward the end not to where it's really silent sometimes it's very subtle but sometimes it sticks out like this one here so pay attention to that and then why would this guy Donald Young be telling him who he doesn't know he just met him on the phone that he's had sex with Obama too why would he tell him this why would he tell somebody who's blowing the whistle on somebody in their church who's supposed to be a friend of his and they're very close quote unquote why would he tell this guy that out of nowhere just start telling him that and tell him to be careful and stuff what does he care he's supposed to be fixing this problem is what is being presented to us but no he's sort of telling things he shouldn't be telling him this does not I'm telling you I think the guy's a con this is not right I think you're using what you normally use and you're using what's called the reasonable person standard yeah and I don't think that applies here I will agree with you there Chase I think if I tried to apply when he was talking about going get in cocaine and we was talking about this and this and this there are pieces of it that are logic laps why would a senator go get or represent to be the guy who went and got the cocaine that's a logic lapse but in terms of why he would behave certainly I agree with you I think this guy's made some weird life choices and done yeah I think I'm not saying you're wrong but what we're seeing here is a yeah that's good I don't know man everything that for me everything I've seen I do with these cats man I know what they're like this is this is similar to stuff I've seen before this is similar to that this guy's this isn't new to me it's not different it's different but it's not different for that road that's this looks this is so familiar to me that's why I feel that way so I feel so strongly about it because everything's telling me not this is this isn't right something's not right here you know and I know we talked about this earlier but this is the video where I figured out who he looks like who we say it was or did I say it would and I think you guys agreed with me Kramer Kramer Kramer from Seinfeld when he was smoking too much this is who this guy reminds me of and I said where do I know this face from because I know I've never seen before but that's what it looks like to me is that the episode where they immigrated Cubans in and they couldn't get him to make cigar so they had to make crepes and the crepes exploded because they were too tight I can't remember if that's the one or not yeah but that's what that reminded me of dang that was gosh that show was so good one of those tape replays so I've read about your story to the extent it's been written about not very much but I'd never read that Donald Young this man Donald Young called you and told you that he knew you had sex with Barack Obama that was the contact in late 2007 that I had that originally came under the guys that they were they were part of the Obama campaign so who was Donald Young Donald Young is a choir director and a school teacher he was a choir director at Jeremiah Wright's church in Chicago the same church that Barack Obama went to he was also a very openly gay black man but very well respected did you know him I had never met him I had not even realized that the person who was communicating with me had been killed until a good two months after so I'm gonna get to that so Donald Young the choir director at Jeremiah Wright's church and is it publicly confirmed that he knew Barack Obama oh yes Donald Young's own mother has repeatedly said that she feels that her son died to protect Barack Obama it's just interesting that Donald Young would have called you he's not working directly for the campaign that we know of exactly but somehow he has a copy of your letter it sounds like maybe Donald Young was on cleanup duty somehow he has my phone number exactly and that's exactly what it was because like I said the first calls were I was led to believe that he was with the campaign the last conversation that I had had with Donald Young he had actually come clean and said that he had been asked to call me and that his job was to get as much information from me as far as who I had spoken to who I had given any information to and to get that to them he had told me to be careful to watch myself and to understand that the Barack Obama campaign was not in any way shape or form going to acknowledge anything or come out about anything and he had made it clear that he had known Barack for quite some time and had had an intimate relationship with Barack for quite some time he told you that and that's when I knew that I could at least trust what I was being told originally I had made it clear I didn't feel comfortable with the phone call because something just didn't seem right but after a couple of calls it started to all fall into place and I had said the same thing to myself wait so you didn't know Donald Young existed nope it sounds like you're not very political anyway you weren't I wasn't at the time and you were just annoyed that Obama was talking about cocaine and lying about it I was extremely annoyed but the sex part had nothing to do with it no and Donald Young who you don't know never heard of calls up and says by the way I know you had sex with Barack Obama I did too yep pretty much I mean this is a longer conversation which we can have in a minute but I mean Obama has a wife and kids and he's telling America what a great family man he is is that maybe you've seen this a lot of that well you know in 2008 I made it clear that Obama was having marital problems in 99 and everybody in the world said that I was crazy didn't know what I was talking about and yet what was it six months ago Barack Obama comes out and tells the world that exactly what I said was the truth in 1999 he and Michelle came very close to divorce really 15 years later what I say is the truth but 15 years earlier I'm a liar and a fraud it's interesting how things eventually come out but yes I believe me I've seen I've known guys that were completely happily married that will screw around with another man on a weekly basis and think nothing of it all right Greg what do you got no wait what do you got I'm gonna go full Bowdoin on this I'm a pen I'm listening grab your pencils so when he says pretty much this is again him being asked to recap the words from someone else specifically so I think this is him honestly trying to stay within the law or whatever he's been told about quoting somebody we're seeing no real deviation in clusters that I can see that score any higher than I would score a truth telling person but I think we're seeing behind the curtain on one key issue here that I've been wondering about watching these videos and it's been in my head since video one this morning when I was looking at him this is a story archetype for him of a vigilante who's been socially wronged and what we're truly hearing here in this clip in this one clip here when it comes back on you'll hear it is his desire to communicate the social injuries that he has suffered and how he was truthful and kind and honest the entire time so let's go full Bowdoin on this what we're seeing here is the count of Monte Cristo we're seeing Joseph from the Bible's book of Genesis we're seeing Tom Robinson into kill Mockingbird we're seeing 1984 by George Orwell the Winston Smith character rebels against the state keeping this diary of the truth and then he gets you know screwed over for it we're seeing Fahrenheit 451 the guy Montag he's a fireman tries to reveal the importance of books and it's persecuted and in our real life what we're seeing this video is a person living out internally maybe in their own mind the archetype of Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning that's what we're seeing here this is the psychology that we're seeing here Greg you're right back to what I said in the very beginning people that I have run into in my experience who always access downright emotion live in a world of drama and I think you just pinged it and the other role that he's playing and this is my last line is he is Bob Lazar and element 115 because I was right so I must be right about aliens too I was right so I must be right about Obama being gay and so that to me is a con Mark what do you got yeah look if you're if you're married you have problems with your marriage okay that's the nature of being of course everybody knows that if you're married or if you're any long-term me not me yeah yeah you know that it's work like it's something you actually have to do so it's not something that just is made and that's it it's ongoing work so you can't have hey I said that they've got problems with their marriage and hey low and behold it's like anybody can do that that's just a barnum statement that will always be true it's always going to be true and and and you know that the stop clock is is right you know twice twice a day or something around that so it says says what I'm a liar and a fraud well I think he's a you know I think I think he's not unhappy making up stories let's just call it that he's not he is at home to making up stories and those expanding year after year after year after year he's okay doing that is he a fraud in this situation well I think you're saying Scott he maybe has been a convicted of fraud at some point that's not what's happening here because fraud would mean you're trying to put forward evidence that is untrue and you've manufactured that evidence and and he's not able to even manufacture any evidence here for my money at the moment he really is to your point chase in a in a story and very happy in that story which is why I think in in any one individual area it may well be tough to find clusters but overarching across the whole thing I think there's a a perfume of perfume of deception around it and I think if I were to I'm going to gamble if I would go and look at his YouTube channel I think his channel would be perfumed with grand storytelling throughout I could be wrong but I think I would probably win on that bet. Scott what do you go on this one? I agree with you and the reason he's so good at telling stories because that's what he does that's what they do he's perfected it he's gotten great it's worked great for him over the years he's made a living doing it and he's ruined people's lives doing it and again he starts talking about ethics I'm not buying that I'm not buying this guy's thing at all not even a little bit he's totally going against everything he says he's for just being honest everybody is into him because he's been what does he care? what he cares about is getting paid so I think he thought these guys were going to pay him off and they didn't do it so in this one as well let's talk about his voice his the tone of his voice is much higher here than it's been so far really high so that indicates for me stress that's what it sounds like to me and his cadence is faster he's just cooking right along there because he's he's thought about these things and there he's just like riding this thing he's not loping but he's but he's pushing a little faster than a lope he's he's as he as he moves through it at the top we're seeing contempt when he's talking about what's going on there watch we see it right in here that goes up we'll see this here and then we'll see some disgust so he's got like you guys are all saying he's got a problem with this there there's something going on in there from an emotional standpoint I think and as far as stories go go like you were talking about Chase yeah it sounds it sounds like a classic there's only seven songs and ten jokes you know and they're only about nine stories so and this is one of them though that's why that classic form of those things or structure of stories are that's where you say oh this is like this this this this and this he knows that but he I don't think he's a big reader I really don't he doesn't talk like that he's his grammar is a little bit wonky in some of these things so I don't think he's he's read he uses supposedly wrong and when it's supposedly and supposedly you can use supposedly it is a word and there's a definition for but he's using the wrong spot where it should have been supposedly not supposedly now supposedly the word yeah oh yeah yeah I mean I make fun of people for saying it all the time but it is it is it is a a word so anyway yeah so yeah well he's adapting as well we see a lot of adapting going here and the most we've seen of him adapting so far so he's excited and he's as he's delivering this stuff and I I'm with you guys it's a story but it's one that that he's good at telling and I think you can give him any situation he can create a story around it very quickly because he's got a protocol he uses when he's delivering these things and when he sets up a story he builds that picture in your brain so it goes in your like yeah I can see it happening that's what helps you believe it that's that's the way I'm seeing things anyway one of those tape replays wait so you didn't know Dolly young existed nope it sounds like you're not very political anyway you weren't I wasn't at the time and you were just annoyed that Obama was talking about cocaine and lying about it I was extremely annoyed but the sex part had nothing to do with it no then Dolly young who you don't know never heard of calls up and says by the way I know you had sex with Barack Obama I did too yep pretty much I mean this is a longer conversation which we can have in a minute but I mean Obama has a wife and kids and he's telling America what a great family man he is is that maybe you've seen this a lot what do you think of that well you know in 2008 I made it clear that Obama was having marital problems in 99 and everybody in the world said that I was crazy didn't know what I was talking about and yet what was it six months ago Barack Obama comes out and tells the world that exactly what I said was the truth in 1999 he and Michelle came very close to divorce really 15 years later what I say is the truth but 15 years earlier I'm a liar and a fraud it's interesting how things eventually come out but yes believe me I've seen I've known guys that were completely happily married that will screw around with another man on a weekly basis and think nothing of it huh and what happened to Dolly young Dolly young was shot dead in his apartment second floor in Chicago, Illinois I think it was December 23rd 2007 according to the police report in the death certificate multiple gunshot wounds close range no forced entry second floor apartment yet not a single resident in the building heard a single shot but yet they can hear every shot that's fired in the street outside Jeremiah Wright announces that Dolly young's dead earlier that morning even before it was announced even before he was declared dead I mean a lot of it just didn't make sense this all public can look this up and it's still on the internet tell us about Dolly young's mother Norma Jean Young actually is a former Chicago police department employee really she has worked for the Chicago PD I had spoken with his sister Lorraine shortly after I realized that he was the gentleman that I had been speaking with there were people at the time that were attempting to have Lorraine and other members of Donnell's family filed criminal complaints against me with Chicago because they wanted me arrested they were trying to get the family to say that I was trying to con them or something to my knowledge they never did any such thing but at the same time I continued to respect Lorraine and the rest of the family but Mrs. Young had finally come out and told David Nelson who was a reporter that I knew out of Minnesota that she was convinced that Donnell had been killed that his death was to protect his friend Obama and she confirmed that they had in fact been extremely close for years I mean did she confirm that they had sex Obama and Donnell wasn't referencing or she did not specifically say that they were sexually involved she just simply said that they had been intimate friends for years but she believed the Obama campaign was responsible she believed that his death was due to protecting Barack Obama and I made the same argument that people said well how are you accusing Barack of anything but I said I'm willing to bet my life that Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright both know or have knowledge of who killed Donnell there is no doubt in my mind about that all right Greg what do you got so Chase here's the piece I was saying earlier I don't think his counsel has been telling him because if they were they would have said don't insinuate that the mother insinuated sex between those guys that's pretty bold the way he dances up against that here if I were his attorney I mean think about what he just did there he tries to say hey well his own mother said boom and Tucker calls him out and says hold on did she say that or are you insinuating that otherwise he would have just insinuated that the mother said that that's a big deal and I don't think an attorney would have said he could step on his own feet anyway even if an attorney told him something but in that one place he's using her and her police ability if you heard what he said he brings out the fact she's a police officer so he's using her authority he has to offset that there was some kind of possibility there that he was being claimed as well so he brings up two things he brings up the mother said this and then he brings up somebody tried to talk the family into pressing charges against me that's an interesting thing for him to bring up and then excuse by saying something like hold on he said try to get him to file charges against me to my knowledge he never did any such thing so either he's had enough involvement with them for them to have a reason to do this and he's done something that caused him to think he's doing a con or he's just making that up one or two and then using the mother in that way I find to be a little bit awkward I can't imagine that you would ever use and insinuate the mother had insinuated sexuality this feels like a ghost story part of this thing where he's now adding some creepy details this is what happened and here's why if that makes sense to you that's for me why I feel like an attorney would have said of all the things he said in this entire thing don't insinuate this kid's mother or this man's mother insinuated that she was having sex with Obama that's powerful that is a big statement it's just my opinion chase what he got yeah I think that he definitely didn't say it which points to him for not saying that he's not trying to say it directly and he did definitely borrow authority however truthful people do this all the time without fail but if they're trying to communicate something truthful and there is some kind of authority to be borrowed from truthful people will do authority all the time on an extremely regular basis and that's where if we see borrowing from authority with some clusters of behavior then we'll start digging and we'll say well then you'll hear us say red flag and this and that and the one thing I'm really really struggling with all morning watching these videos is the one thing I would expect to continue and I wouldn't call myself an expert but I would expect image management I would expect him to show up in a college shirt I would expect him to have a recent haircut and recent trimming of his fingernails and all of these things that I would expect for him to be managing how he is perceived while he's on this campaign and I'm not seeing that this was scary to watch for me nothing was far off about his remarks just going through the five seas of deception there's no change in his behavior from baseline that I spent probably two and a half hours listening and watching videos of him this morning also his baseline from other videos like the go fund me recently as yesterday he posted the video so it's not just like 1995 there's clusters would be number two there's no clusters that I could see here there's no shift in context he's still not showing anything relevant in terms of culture like a change in culture and when it comes to the checklist of things we commonly see in deceptive individuals it's just not here for me not a whole lot of them not enough for me to be confident about it anyway Scott what do you got? Alright I think the reason that you're expecting him to look a certain way and to present himself a certain way is because most people on the impression of cotton is going to look like whatever he thinks a car dealer looks like they come out and go hey listen here I got a good deal you want to make a million dollars a sneaky kid here's what you do give me ten dollars and then you're going to give me five hundred dollars so cons will look they don't always look that way if you get the big business cons that's when you see that when you get around entrepreneurs and you see cons that's when they do that because they will look like they're more successful than the entrepreneurs are in this guy's world his cons are small he's running check things he's running small fraud schemes he's running all kinds of small things so he's not the guy to dress up and he would look odd if you dressed him up he'd look weird man he's weird enough looking right now anyway but imagine putting a suit on this cat I mean he looks like a three thousand year old gutter witch already but you put a suit on him it's going to be pretty scary you know so you never know what the cons going to look like and that's to their path that's that helps with their their power to to help you with suggestions like this guy's okay she's not very smart you know this doesn't run with this guy huge you know but that's the way they do it so that's why they they look differently I think that's why he's not on point like that most people expect expect the con to be a certain way because we've seen it movies and you see on TV shows and that's not that's not what happens most of the time they they look a lot like your con checklist of what they do is expecting them to be a certain way didn't it what do you mean say I say how how does a con typically act behave control story narratives and all of that are still a ways to see them or expect them to behave a certain way right okay let's talk about the re-technique when it comes to interrogation that's where I wanted you to okay man I was going to ask you to ping that okay you got me in there you circled me on that so for the re-technique it's a specific way you answer you asked the specific number of questions and most people go right down the line or a lot of people do and the last question is the same way that they've they read in the book or been taught to do it but the thing about the re-technique is you can you can it's like Greg's cars you can take them you can put different kinds of tires on them make them cool you can put a different engine in it you can paint stuff you don't paint stuff on the sides Greg you can paint flames on the side whatever you want to do or put a big skull on the front put your name on the back whatever you want to do to it to make it work for what you need to work for and that's what you can do with the re-technique a lot of people aren't successful with it because they're not making it their own so in this case this guy's cons will make it their own there are certain things I do expect from him and I'm seeing everything I expect in this guy from the way he's dressed to the way he speaks to the stories he's building to the way he acts to the things he references the way he approaches things the way he shuts down on things you know some things in here he's shut down on because he doesn't have the full answer for him like from that question about the mother being the police chief or whatever she was he wasn't ready for that that's why he gets quiet and that's why he doesn't give a whole lot of information on it he's trying to structure that story as it goes and you can see him thinking about that while he goes through I know what these guys look like and so that was a glitch there for me that's where everything stopped I went this guy and I know exactly what that is because I've seen it a thousand times I know what he's doing and when he's talking about those facts he's back to sniffing again he's talking about facts about the shooting he starts sniffing there because that can be proved that that's everybody knows that or that's common knowledge in that world that left shoulder shrug now means absolutely nothing to me because it's going off while he's telling the truth so I think that is part of his baseline he probably does it and when he's being deceptive as well as a chin heading over there as well but in this case he's telling the truth and we're seeing it there too this is one of the things you can knock that one out as a deceptive cue I think not overall but in this section here lots of disgust on his face and they're not micro expressions they're big as he's talking about this going up really big and you can see it because those lines in his face it's very easy to watch this guy and see what's happening his cadence slows down too as he's talking about like I was saying a minute ago about that question about the mother everything slows down he can't quite get it together he wasn't ready for that so that was a good question on Tucker's part although I'm sure he didn't know what he was doing or didn't plan it that way when he's talking about being in a while I'm just going to go over what you guys want to see almost all of his animation has disappeared here too all of his moving around doing things and all of his face movements and all that a lot of that has disappeared almost completely gone his adapties almost frozen as he's talking about that again going back to creating these stories as he goes and he's not prepared for that so he's getting his story together as he's going through this and when he says he's not accusing Obama Obama of anything are you kidding me this whole thing is about accusing him of doing that he's saying he did this yeah he did that and everybody else say no he didn't so he's accusing him of doing these things so that's my take on it anyway Mark what do you got? from my point of view it's getting quite complicated now bit like complications in a watch we'll maybe come to watch this later on the complications are the things that have a difficult way of getting to an average end just for fun so implied hit on Donald there and then there's the idea of is it Naomi Young and then Lorraine and then law enforcement people and then Donald Nelson going back to Naomi Young and back to Donald Nelson so there's like little threads being put and what a tangled web we weave I'm not saying it's a deception but it is a tangled web that's being created here because when you've got that tangled web it's difficult for Occam's razor to kind of carve in and he puts forward this Occam's razor idea of look you know they're trying to say I'm a con here and what he's trying to set up I think is if you think I'm a con you don't understand the conspiracy that's gone on here or this tangled web that's gone on and if you are saying that I'm a con you may be part of that conspiracy and people may well put down below in the you don't understand the conspiracy going on well again it's a web and weaving spiders come not near and that one is definitely for all you talk conspiracy theorists out there you know what I'm talking about on that if you know what I'm talking about write it down below and subscribe for sure there that's all I've got on that one hey one note I was having a good conversation one time with John Nolan where we talked about how people who have lives that are not above board often are masterful at hiding and appearing to help as much as they can because they've had to do it so much they've had to live in different ways so it's a thing for us to try to pay attention to why some of us see something or think we see something and others don't because I do think each of us brings a different skill set and I think we're probably at the end of this going to have different varying and varying degrees and some of it you're probably going to say okay how do I put that word to this how do you put this word to that and I think you're hearing it a little bit between the four of us everybody's got a little bit different angle so I'll be interested in that close out okay we should bring Nolan on one time to talk to him about it yeah one of those tape replays and what happened to Donald young Donald young was shot dead in his apartment second floor in Chicago, Illinois I think it was December 23rd 2007 2007 according to the police report and the death certificate multiple gunshot wounds close range no forced entry second floor apartment yet not a single resident in the building heard a single shot but yet they can hear every shot that's fired in the street outside Jeremiah Wright announces that Donald young's dead earlier that morning even before it was announced even before he was declared dead a lot of it just didn't make sense this all public can look this up and it's still on the internet tell us about don young's mother Norma Jean young actually is a former Chicago police department employee really had worked for the Chicago PD I had spoken with his sister Lorraine shortly after I realized that he was the gentleman that I had been speaking with there were people at the time that were attempting to have Lorraine and other members of Donald's family file criminal complaints against me with Chicago because they wanted me arrested trying to get the family to say that I was trying to con them or something to my knowledge they never did any such thing but at the same time I continued to respect Lorraine and the rest of the family but Mrs. Young had finally come out and told David Nelson who was a reporter that I knew out of Minnesota that she was convinced that Donald had been killed that his death was to protect his friend Obama and she confirmed that they had in fact been extremely close for years I mean did she confirm that they've had sex Obama and don young her confirmation wasn't referencing or she did not specifically say that they were sexually involved she just simply said that they had been intimate friends for years but she believed the Obama campaign was responsible she believed that his death was due to protecting Barack Obama and I made the same argument that people said well how are you accusing Barack I said I'm not accusing Barack of anything but I said I'm willing to bat my life that Barack Obama and Jeremiah right both know or have knowledge of who killed Donald Young there is no doubt in my mind about that what's what was the point at which you decided I'm just going to bring this to the country I'm going to go public well in January of 2008 after having contacted the campaign yet again I had decided you know what screw it I'm just going to make a YouTube video and put it up which I did it wasn't because I was looking for anything out of it in fact if I had even stopped long enough to anticipate the blowback and the consequences of speaking out me being me it probably would not have stopped me it might have slowed me a little bit but it would not have stopped me but I figured if you're going to call him out you can't call him out on part of it and people said well why didn't you just talk about the drug use and leave the sex out and I said because if I said he just used drugs and then you found out later it was drugs and sex you would accuse me of lying because I didn't mention the sex so my opinion was if you're going to tell the story then you tell the whole story and let the chips fall where they may so that's exactly what I did and so you made a YouTube video by the way I looked I looked for it last night I couldn't find it that's because YouTube gave access to my account to someone shortly after the polygraph test and I was never given access back to it before the video was actually deleted are you serious oh yeah YouTube gave access to the account and the video was deleted Microsoft gave access to my hotmail account and all of my emails were circulating the internet and vacation replies were set up on my email telling people that I was busy giving and would get back with them when I was done and oh yeah man they wanted Obama to be president yep and they wanted me to be the biggest fraud and nutcase that ever existed alright chase what do you got the ending of this looks a little suspicious and it there's some cues here but I don't want to talk about them in a way that would suggest deception because they don't follow serious changes they don't go in clusters they're not serious deviation from anything that he's really done before there's a couple of indicators here but they're not that bad but if if 60% of what he's saying is true here we're all we already know that we're just living in terrifying weird times right now when it comes to politics in general which is just the game of politics is about a thousand times more disgusting than everything that's happening in this video I'll just say that that's all I got Mark what do you got yeah so I won't it wasn't because I was looking for anything out of it it wasn't because I was looking for anything out of it and we get discussed on that and closed eye talking I would say that what he's doing there is a virtue signal and I can understand why but I'm just going to cluster those two ideas together and go I think that's virtue signalling and I think the whole kind of flavour of this is him letting us know that if you're going to make up a story go big with it if you're going to start out with a probability which is drug use why not just go that little bit further and that little bit further and that little bit further why not just push it so you've got a really good story and that is you know that's entertainment he says the biggest fraud that ever existed well I don't think he's the biggest fraud that ever existed by any stretch of the imagination we've seen than this in our time but there may be an element there of a desire and something of the grandiose about him wanting to be that biggest fraud ever most of what I'm saying there is really a conjecture but I'm out of spirit to look at his body language anymore Greg what do you got? Mark I'm with you the body language piece of this has been awkward for me because the guy is first of all wonky as hell he's got the thing that you automatically want to jump on and say it's a tale that he's being deceptive what I am looking at more is how he is insulating himself with other things okay number one he had this mother who was he almost insinuated she was saying her son had sex with Barack Obama and then backed away from it now he's saying that I created this video and they took it down and it's gone and you can't find it and they hacked my email and and and there's layers well my first question there there's a ton of questions you could ask okay did you have a copy of it I'd love to see it number one because apparently you have copies of videos from earlier out on your on your YouTube channel chase you've been talking about it where that one go well why do you think they hacked your channel was it you think that was political or is that something in your personal life so there's a lot of reasons to ask questions when a person does this because if they're using transference which is possible I said in the beginning transference makes a lie much harder to to be able to take apart because I'm taking details from another part of my life or from your life and plugging them in I would say when I went through SEAR I used pictures of my brother's children so that I could talk about children didn't have any of my own it's easy because I knew them anyway schools they went to I knew all of that stuff you can tie up an interrogator all day long if you can take details from another story or something else so who who hacked your email account was it really Barack Obama was somebody that you have done something to tried to fraud or do something else don't know and Chase while I'm with you I think he could have cleaned up a bit it might not fit the persona that he needs to come across as this guy so not really sure Scott what do you got yeah I don't think he he's coming on like he doesn't realize he's been hacked he didn't say I was hacked he said they gave out my information they gave are they deleted my video they gave out my emails they're all over the internet he doesn't maybe he does realize he's been hacked but he's not saying that he's saying they're all against me all this whole now he's turned into a political thing where they're coming for me you know he's not afraid anybody's coming for him that way he knows better than that I don't think he's the smartest guy in the world but I think it's obvious when you get hacked and he was hacked somebody just I'm sure it was simple to his I'm sure his passwords by password one two three four something like that you know not smart now you've given away my password so I was just thinking I could change all my like in space balls what was it in space balls that's the kind of combination an idiot would have on his luggage I'd forgotten that movie it was funny that's a great flick man looks okay so you guys covered everything we're seeing lots of disgust in there especially there at the top and he's showing lots of confidence with this as he goes through because he's trying to sell the fact that YouTube gave his video and gave his information away YouTube ain't going to do that I don't care what you've done or who you are and all you're just going to give your stuff up to somebody doesn't work that way they're not going to do that Microsoft doesn't give a hoot about this guy nobody cares about that nobody they're not going to give his email stuff out and start passing around the net no it's just he got hacked you know because he's probably not very smart anyway I'm just bad-mouthing this guy I feel bad about it well I agree with chase lots worse stuff goes on the government I'm just not sure this guy's the guy they were after no he's not a target nobody and the reason that he's he hasn't taken a dirt nap is because they think he's an idiot too you know look at this guy let's know what he's saying it's crazy what he's talking about is they're like no one's going to believe that and I think they're right you know I think Tucker's trying to come on like he's like really tell me about the tell me more about he's not buying that either I don't think anybody is that's just what I think just my opinion God Greg get in there man what's up unless you're going to dive into your camera one of those tape replays what's what was the point at which you decided I'm just going to bring this to the country I'm going to go public well in January of 2008 after having contacted the campaign yet again I had decided you know what screw it I'm just going to make a YouTube video and put it up which I did it wasn't because I was looking for anything out of it in fact if I had even stopped long enough to anticipate the blowback and the consequences of speaking out me being me it probably would not have stopped me it might have slowed me a little bit but it would not have stopped me but I figured if you're going to call him out you can't call him out on part of it and people said well why didn't you just talk about the drug use and leave the sex out and I said because if I said he just used drugs and then you found out later it was drugs and sex you would accuse me of lying because I didn't mention the sex so my an opinion was if you're going to tell the story then you tell the whole story and let the chips fall where they may so that's exactly what I did and so you made a YouTube video by the way I looked for it last night I couldn't find it that's because YouTube gave access to my account to someone shortly after the polygraph test and I was never given access back to it the video was actually deleted are you serious oh yeah, YouTube gave access to the account and the video was deleted Microsoft gave access to my hotmail account and all of my emails were circulating the internet and vacation replies were set up on my email telling people that I was busy giving g*****s and would get back with them when I was done oh yeah man they wanted Obama to be president yep and they wanted me to be the biggest fraud and nutcase that ever existed I gotta ask you I wasn't there I could only assess what you're saying I don't see any obvious motive for you for gain, financial gain and in fact you haven't you've gotten impoverished as a result of it but if I'm a reporter, well I was a reporter at the time I remember thinking well that's an interesting story but it seemed like nobody in the media wanted to follow up with you and some people like Ben Smith at Politico who's a liar and a shill posing as a journalist I re-read the piece last night that he wrote saying oh it's ridiculous, write off the first graph it's ridiculous, these claims I think I have an answer for why a lot of reporters did not want to follow up and I think it would have something to do with what David Axelrod told a old Chicago Sun Times reporter or no, a Chicago Tribune reporter, John Crudson Axelrod had been a reporter in Chicago before he went into politics well John Crudson worked for the Chicago Tribune and John Crudson actually came to Duluth Minnesota and sat down with me and talked with me and John Crudson had told me point blank that before he had flown out that he had spoken to Axelrod and that Axelrod had told him that they were aware of who I was and that it was their intentions to destroy me and that if any reporter had mentioned me to them they would be completely cut off and that outlet would be completely cut off from access to the Obama campaign for the duration of the year so I think that had a lot to do with why reporters didn't bring things up to the campaign because everybody wanted access to, you know, the new savior nobody wanted to be blackballed and denied access to a historic campaign Greg, what do you have? Yeah, this is one of those cases everything he said might be true and can still not be telling the truth meaning they could say that guy we're not going to give you access to the campaign because he's a liar and we don't want any part of that there's all kinds of reasons this could happen but again, there's no smoking gun there's no single piece of body language says a guy's telling a lie when he's talking about people he's talked to ideally this should be the most truthful piece of anything that he does because he's talking about reporters he's talked to he's talking about places that he's tried to leak the information and he's getting blocked I'll just leave it at, there's not a whole lot here and we'll back chase to something you talked about earlier if you desire drama, you'll find drama and if people are desiring drama and he's pushing, he may continue to push in the wrong places and create his own drama again, no smoking gun Scott, what do you got? All right, Tucker's not an idiot he knows why this guy did this he had to go through some trying to figure out why would this guy do this money he's a con, that's what he does that's what he's always done, he sees this going in, he's just running a game trying to get some money from these people that's what I think that's how it looks to me because for all these guys there's money in there somewhere that's how he makes a living that's what he does, do we know what he does for a living? Anybody know? I sure don't know I haven't talked about that so I'm sure he's still out running I don't know if he is or not but I would think someone like that would still be out running cons trying to make money because that's all he's done or what he's done the most of this is the highest he's spoken so far, he sounds almost like a woman his voice is so high at this point, out of all the totally, up to this point, this is the highest he's talked, I think that's a little stress for him there because now he's getting into something where he's got to really sell this thing because he's getting toward the end and it's getting down to why this happened, what happened these people do this to you and then once he hits that part about Axelrod, I'm out I'm out because that's when he starts getting quiet and he starts, we start here fading facts and they're getting the fading facts when someone's talking and as they're talking about they're giving their answer, they get more they get quieter as they go along there toward the end, that happens time and time again in that I think he's, the reason he gets so that chin comes out and that head goes back and he gets so cocky right there is because he's confident in that last answer he's given you what he said, they came and told me they're going to shut me down and you can't do this and everybody's afraid of it no, I don't think that happened at all, I don't believe this guy at all Mark, what do you got? Yeah, look, why don't more people talk to him? I don't know why more people don't have him on their new shows, maybe more will now, the question is why is somebody in a woodshed dressed in a Brooks Brothers suit and a Rolex Datejust why are they talking to him at this point? Tuck us there on a floodplain with lamps that are going to burn the place down he's there in his suit he's there in an odd look, if you're in a woodshed you want to be wearing something like this, you want a decent tool watch not a Datejust, easy to identify by the way, because of the jubilee bracelet and you can see that little glint between the white gold and the steel 1945 that design came about for the 40th anniversary, hence the jubilee bracelet there, so look all of it is beyond the ordinary, so how do we really comprehend beyond the ordinary it is an extraordinary story going on I'll tell you in a little bit what I think it might be all about Chase, what do you got on this one? I will tell you too and you can leave in the comments whether or not you think Mark just made all that crap up just a few seconds ago about the Rolex I know a con when I see one maybe he did, but he's got the right clothing that's how he's dressed right for that interview anyway I think any 13 year old and above in the United States anyway would agree that our politics are now a blend of mob and theater on both sides and I don't see any of this just in my opinion being untrustworthy like it sounds like something that could legitimately happen, I don't see any cluster of deception at all that's all I got I think I'm getting a hunch back I haven't given myself enough head room up there every time I do that I end up leaning forward I don't know what I'm telling you oh wait now we got to take that out one of those tape replays so I got to ask you I wasn't there I could only assess what you're saying but I don't see any obvious motive for you for gain, financial gain you're not going to get rich doing this and in fact you haven't you've gotten impoverished as a result of it but like if I'm a reporter, well I was a reporter at the time I remember thinking well that's an interesting story but it seemed like nobody in the media wanted to follow up with you and some people like Ben Smith think that he wrote saying oh it's ridiculous write off the first graph it's ridiculous these claims I think I have an answer for why a lot of reporters did not want to follow up and I think it would have something to do with what David Axelrod told a old Chicago Sun Times reporter Chicago Tribune reporter John Crudson Axelrod had been a reporter in Chicago before he went into politics John Crudson worked for the Chicago Tribune and John Crudson actually came to Duluth Minnesota and sat down with me and talked with me and John Crudson had told me point blank that before he had flown out that he had spoken to Axelrod and that Axelrod had told him that they were aware of who I was and that it was their intentions to destroy me and that if any reporter had mentioned me to them they would have been completely cut off and that outlet would be completely cut off from access to the Obama campaign for the duration of the year so I think that had a lot to do with why reporters didn't bring things up to the campaign because everybody wanted access to, you know, the new savior nobody wanted to be black bald and denied access to a historic campaign just one more thing All right Mark, how's it looking to you so far at this point? Yeah, look, politics and entertainment bread and puppets, you know the opium of the people, shall we say look, we've got to have a great story this is a great, great story just like anybody else it would be brilliant if it were true it would be awful if it were true I mean that's why it's so compelling it would be, as I've said before allotropic, you wouldn't want to look at it at the same time Marker and his particular agency that he has there knows just how incredible this story might be and I mean incredible in that grand way and also maybe it's not credible as well at the same time for me there's too much against it and the idea of some of it is probable and some of it is a little more improbable in the way that he's telling it I don't think the story as a whole is a thoroughly improbable story I just think the way it's told for me doesn't make this very probable that it happened with this particular individual I'm not saying it's not probable that this kind of thing wouldn't ever happen I'm just saying hasn't happened with this guy here that makes sense Chase, where do you go? so we've had a YouTube channel for going on three years I think and we've had 250 or 200 videos three and a half years and in every video that we've called somebody potentially deceptive we've been able to spot clusters not here it did not happen here and as a professional as a person who calls himself an expert I cannot call this deception because I don't think anybody can show me the reasons to do so I think striking found almost no large clusters indicating deception very minor stress markers I think the big picture here it's just in our little world of misinformation and deception this episode especially shows us that the need to decode and understand human behavior has never been more critical and we're in this place where these skills and human behavior aren't just like cool to have they're becoming almost required to survive because of stuff like this so much disinformation out there Greg? yeah and Chase I agree with you they're not screaming red flags at every turn what I will say however is this they're also not being scrutinized this is I said it in the beginning if a con is looking for a mark and that mark is projecting exactly what they need what do you think is going to happen? it makes it a lot easier if I believe what you say and I'm trying to pull the story out and there are probably a couple of markers in here that make me know that the guy knew what the questions were up front that doesn't make me feel any more comfortable and I agree with you I am the first guy to say politics is the ugliest, dirtiest business on earth and Americans have perfected it so I think that when we watch through it that we're seeing truth that we're seeing any of that while I am a big fan of going box box box box in this case I think we're seeing a lot of trans fronts this guy's probably got a whole lot of stuff behind him and some of this I'm going to tell you is having seen enough people lie through trans fronts to know they can hold up a glass pain makes me feel really uncomfortable I think this is probably one of the few that we probably Chase you brought it up we should say what do we think the percentages are of truth or not and I think that's a great call Scott what do you got? I agree with Chase there aren't a lot of clusters of body language cues that give us the impression he's being deceptive but from a con hunter's perspective which is my perspective in this one I'm seeing or I'm hearing a lot of cues like I've gone over time to time again in here so I don't believe this guy I think he's I think he's a con and I think a con is a con is a con he's a thief and a thief is a thief is a thief and you can say oh people change these guys don't change they do not I've seen a thousand times they don't change this guy hasn't changed you wait and see he'll have another book come out and it'll be an exorbitant prize for it and I would say be soon because he's got to ride this wave of what he's of this interview he just came up with or something he had in the can is ready to go something will come up because he's into this for the money and he's into I don't think this is the last we'll hear from him either I think we'll see him somewhere else or doing something else if we check up on him later I think he'll be in the pokey again because he'll be busted doing something else it's just my opinion he's probably the most innocent guy in the world I don't know but that's just what I think and I think from my perspective I'm going to put in 100% that this is not true what I'm saying happened did not happen you're 100% 100% I'm 100% I'm very confident I'm as confident as I get I think he's being deceptive Mark what do you think? I would reframe the question a little bit that's what we do in politics I would say is it possible that this I don't weasel is it possible that this has happened it's possible it has it's possible it has does this person, does the way this person tells me this story make it probable that it has, no, doesn't make it probable does the way this person tells me this story make it very unprobable that it happened yet it makes it 100% unprobable that this ever happened now, has Barack Obama had gay sex and drugs with somebody in the back of it possibly I don't know, possibly did it happen with this person very very improbable based on his storytelling of this, there's my answer Chase, where you going? I'm just going to give you my percentage of likely deception here the percentage as a whole overall I would put a 23 I'd say 80 and the reason I say 80 is there's a high I agree with Mark, people who are telling you facts stick to the facts they don't start telling ghost stories to add layers to it and he added ghost stories that's when I started thinking he was a fraud in my opinion all right all right fellas, thanks for another good one and we'll see you next time now that we all hate each other no, this is a good one just you Chase we got one I'm glad we got one where we actually could say no, we disagree what was that you just did dude are we doing this or what what are you doing dude bring it we got to finish it up we got to say all right, I got to go take a whiz fellas good afternoon my name is Larry Sinclair I'm a former recreational drug user drug trafficker and I'm a convicted felon for crimes of forgery bad checks and theft by check so what do you got