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That's so I know you can just check it out on your time The link to all of this is down in the description under link tree just click it into all pop up This is Britain's most dangerous gangs revealed How the war of drugs and guns destroy our teenagers this is talk TV I Don't even I don't think I've ever even heard of them Salute though Let me let me let's take it out We had a video we got from the jail and her in brother gang member He was that song and I'm ashes this guy on the Brittany it's are we straight into it fellas provide on the show Some of the UK's most prolific crimes as weak Hello, and welcome to crime Sussier bless where each week we unravel some of the UK's most Prolific crimes as well as providing in-depth analysis on the criminality the plagues our nation on the show today Who are the top dogs now? We dissect the very real threat from some of the most fearsome gangs in the UK today Shedding light on serious and organized crime as it continues to grow later. Is it safe on your streets? I'll be taking you virtually to the UK's capital. Oh, yeah, we know virtually my boy We know you ain't stepping in now not on the ground my boy Virtually is the safest bet in London for this week's postcode watch and finally It's your chance to book a crook as we show you this week's what it's pretty OBE Joining me for all of this today are Chris Freddie OBE from the charity hashtag unapologetic Detired met detective superintendent Shabnan Chowdhury and former ecstasy trafficker turned youtuber Sean Atwood, that is Sean. I knew very much for being here now You have the right to remain what's an interesting panel. They got police criminal and then Youth organization person This is crime So serious organized crime cost the UK economy an estimated 37 billion pounds Per year and within this startling figure. There's a whole host of criminal activities such as drug trafficking human trafficking cybercrime and Money laundering. I want to say man almost awful You know it cost 37 billion dollars, but I'm almost positive Like when they seize money Don't they put that back into it or no, they don't do that there They don't use the money to What do they do with the money that they seize? Like in the assets and things of that nature from these criminal Increasingly Britain Street gangs in certain inner-city areas such as London and Manchester are becoming more of a cultural Transmission of America's Crips and Bloods According to the director general of the National Crime Agency Graham bigger. There's around 59,000 people Involved in serious organized crime within the UK with about 12 billion pounds generated by criminal activities each year and Around 100 billion of dirty cash from around the world laundered through the UK But behind these alarming numbers lie the stories of countless lives affected by the ruthless actions of these Shabnam you set up a gangs unit when you were in the police Based on your considerable experience Who were the gangs that are plaguing the streets and that we should be afraid of well? You've got Hackney for example, which has a highest number of gangs and London with 33 gangs And then you've got new with something like 13, but you've got the Holly Street boys. You've got the balance boys you've got Burger bar boys from across the UK. You've got a whole host of names Which some of these names actually come from as you talked about earlier on from America from the bloods and the no They don't I never heard none of them caught. No, they don't So the name the gang that she just named she's trying to say that those names come from America Crips and that is because they like the kudos have been Associated with American gangs with you know suggesting that they come from From the hood in Brooklyn places like that. So, yeah quite a Wide variety of young kids that are involved in criminal activity that are actually linked to some of the top Top organized criminal gangs across the UK. These are the ones that earn something like 200 million Worth as much as 200 million you can talk about the Addams family who were notorious in the 80s and the 90s and were involved in extortion in robberies in In violence They're now really really established and people say well, that was like 20 30 years ago But actually those are the gangs are established that still run the streets of London. She now lie about that one But that's you know, that ain't hard to figure out So notorious gangs like the hell Bainia. We all know that there's a tap tap tap tap tap tap upper echelons And for example that so many people have heard of and who go online and show off their weaponry and their wealth and what have you Would they have contacts or would they have influence over these kids that are carrying out the criminality on the streets? They have huge influence over them Peter what they do is they groom them And then what they do is they initiate them into gangs They will get them into buying trainers for them. They'll buy them bikes. I don't really like that name groom like that word They need to reword that like it suggests a lot of other things that could be going on They'll buy them all sorts of stuff They'll get them to deliver drugs guns and weapons and then what they do is they get to a stage where they tell those kids You've lost me money you lost my drugs or you've done something wrong and now we own you And it's really difficult for those young kids. Many of them who actually want to exit those gangs Who cannot do that because of the fear of retribution by those organized gangs You mentioned America which brings me quite brilliantly on to you Sean You didn't come up through the streets of gangs in the UK because I have no idea about Sean's story. So this should be I mean this should be like Educational you came in a criminality and drug dating through a very different room. What was that? So I was a stopbroker gone wild at more money than common sense started to import ecstasy from Holland to Arizona May 16 2002 SWAT team smashes my door down and they end up in sheriff Joe Arpaio's jail America's toughest sheriff where I'm living Almost six years then in the Arizona system of bloods, crips. Yeah, definitely Arizona has one of the craziest prisons I didn't know he was from there, but Arizona got it Well, I went to Arizona last year. My boy's brother his name is his nickname is blood We used to call him blood and I didn't know who it was until I seen him But I he used to come to this park that I lived by he used to hoop and he got this is I can say it now. He got into a shootout with the kings So the park that I was at I had a lot of Gds um And bloods I guess the bloods may were cool Or him specifically he was cool um Because he was hooping he could hoop like he could he could play ball real good. So he would come over there um And he was you know, it is what it is. You know, you at the park. You got a reference. You got to hold it down so He they had came or I don't know what happened, but I was younger And he grabbed me. He was like get under the car. I was like I'd know what that means So but anyway, that's not the point of the story, but I seen him and I was like, oh blood was good with you And did uh, I was like dang We was in Arizona. He got out I had a I got you know, I had bought him some whatever he needed. You know when he first got out uh It was just a crazy it was crazy, but just crazy that he bring up arizona I can I can I can front that he's not lying for arizona got it because arizona is full of bloods and groups Heavy on the blood Neo nazi gang members mal mal gang members When I arrived in america the initiation ritual for the gang members was If you see a car at night, man, warm me if you see a car at night with its lights off Yes, do not flash your lights at it If you see a car at night with his lights off, this is this is west coast gangs do this a lot Arizona uh Callie if you see a car with the lights on you flash them The first car to flash them they're gonna get on you and that's their initiation Do not flash them to turn their lights on because they will shoot you dead Yeah, the gang initiation ritual and to add on to what shabna said out of all of the podcast guests we've interviewed one told us a story Were by in this country a young person owed the albany and mafia money He'd gone behind on his payments. They showed up at his house and took his eyeball out No living being should ever eat Albanians as well, so I believe it Violence violence violence, this is you know, it's becoming a scene Chris, I'm sure that you have experiences or you've heard tales of violence What is it about violence and gangs? Is it a currency? Is it some kind of kudos? What do we hear about it all the time? Well, obviously like what goes down to anything everybody knows Sign up before we move on before we move on about that initiation out there It is what it is. But at the same time, I got a little very little respect for it Because these are civilians just trying to do a good thing. You know I'm saying oh turn your lights on that's a civilian that did that to you At the end of the day you your initiation is harming civilians. I don't stand by that I don't stand by any violence YouTube If you're watching like we always say, you know the public everybody knows when you have a certain sense of power So if you're watching like we always say, you know the public eskibar, you know the scarface and I keep saying to some of these kids They watch these movies Thinking that they're going to get that end status at the end and once again Like you said, it's that manipulation in a sense of I'm gonna score a point against you So I've gonna show my violence in the sense of it's always got to be stacked up To a sense of who's more worse or who's got who's got the most kind of like points on their scoreboard And like I said with a lot of these young people if you're stabbed and you've now been filmed and someone's filmed you Stubbing then that it gets to a stage now. What are you going to do to get back on that other gang? You're going to have to film and then you're going to have to do 10 times worse So once again, it's all about now matching up each other which the violence is now got out of control And I feel we need to come to a basis system and understanding that you've got to remember these are 14 15 16 year old boys that are taking lives And how do they get ensnared into this gang culture from the very beginning? Well, like with most people in a sense of we come from poor backgrounds There lack of opportunities, you know, you've got to think about the many of the systems of where I grew up and where we are now There is no youth clubs. There's no opportunities for our young people to be able to do anything You go around to any of these single areas says no ball games. There's no activity. So once again It's even so bad in America. Like if you go to some of the parks, they take the rooms off the basketball court Like you're really giving like nobody something really giving kids nothing to do This is a park. You took the rooms off the basketball court So in America, they're associating why they do that is because they they they associate like the gangs they come and they congregate around the court Like we come on Young people are just out you want them around the court or you want them in the streets doing street stuff They're on the streets doing nothing. Anyway, not always say boredom breeds Certain other things, you know, you start off nicking a sweet from the shop You know, you start off in the sense of seeing a gang man by standing on the street corner If he was doing activities, you would never see him in the first place So now all of a sudden he sees you he starts to groom you and it's very simple as do you know what? Here's a bike What do you mean? This is not my bike. I don't want this bike. No, no, this is your bike You can have this bike Oh, my mom won't let me have it. No, no, no, it's for you. You can keep out my house But anytime you want it, this is your bike And before you know it, you're riding down the street and he comes up to you one day and he says to you give me See that bag, take it down the road and give it to that person and I say this to my kids every single time. What's in the bag? Drug serve money Weapons, I don't know But once again, do you think that he cared when I was dropping it that happened to me before he used to just do He used to come outside my house, right? Not for me, but he used to do drop-offs with pickups outside the house Um, so somebody would come they would drop throw it under the car But he's a full-grown adult. I'm a child, you know, I'm outside playing whatever He used to tell me, hey, you come come grab this for me And then they used to I used to grab it and then he'd like give me like 20 dollars and ones. I'm thinking I'm rich You know, I'm a child give me young I have to be like 10 It starts young out there Down there if the police came who would have been in trouble then but nine times I again See, I wasn't blind to the fact. I knew what it was At 20 dollars was lucrative I don't understand it So once again, they feel like this person is not looking at them in the sense of throwing them to cattle or trying to make them go Prison they're looking at them like this person's like my dad. This person's like my brother This person's like a role model to me I'm going to do anything that this person says to because I haven't got anything And when you're in you're in when you're in you're in And if you're in an american gang, for example But very much linked to the uk because drugs are being sourced or Transited through so it's all part of a uk criminality picture What keeps you in there? Is it fear? Is it greed? Is it the buzz? So what I saw was low level drug offenders come into the jail in arizona if they're white Immediately skinheads from the neo-nazi area and brovava go up to them. This is prison. So this is prison. That's what I'll be telling y'all That's what I'll be telling y'all about how it's race based in prison in america in prison not jail not kind of jail Don't talk of prison. Ask him what especially arizona the charges are Give them a heart check, you know, see if they've got any confidence about them They figure out where they're gonna fit in. Yeah, then they put them to work work means Committing acts of violence to earn your tattoos and to be a full member of the arizona prison gang You have to murder someone for them in the jail Now under the charter of these gangs. It's blood in blood out They sign up to that they're impressionable like chris said they come in Maybe they haven't got family members who are supporting them and all of a sudden they've got these surrogates Substituting that need but they use the hell out of them They get them doing low-level activity like chris said in the beginning Then they get into it's crazy man. Some people go in the jail like not even hardened criminals but come out Full-blown gang members On smoke or more serious activity to the point where they're committing Murders we had a video we got from the jail. I know him brother gang member He was murdering another inmate who'd refused to beat someone up for the gang And the method he used to kill him he just Mashed this guy's head over and over into the concrete And he's looking at the security camera and the guards aren't responding 10 minutes in you can see me Stalk on the back of this guy's head and neck and blood going everywhere 20 minutes in and the guards still haven't responded Picks the body up Brings it out like he's trying to show it off Are you a parrot who's still a arizona built different? I believe him I Believe every word that shot is saying right now So the camera throws it off the balcony. It's stuck in the rail and he starts kicking it over and over again Only then do they notice and put this guy down. This is how much control the gangs have got over the young people in the jail Now that's the jail period example from an american jail And you know what's funny the guards probably realized they just didn't want to intervene until it was finished It was already started. It was done. It was just like man. I ain't gonna hold on now What about examples of influence that street gangs in london or elsewhere in the uk might have over Other children other impressionable children when you've got young children exactly as you were saying you know We're talking about here come from um backgrounds where there's poverty where the demographic of the community is poor Where you've got single parents Who want to do their best who are working ridiculous hours? Haven't got the time to look after their children. What happens is that those kids then turn to other people Who offer them a family unity and that's where they become See that's why it's important man to have a full household mother and dad Because everybody plays a role in that house, man Dad you protected you provide Mom you look out for the kid And I think you can't work but it sometimes especially when you're in a poverty situation It works better if you keep an eye on a kid. That's why it's good to have multiple kids too So they could look out for each other But you know you gotta have a dad to protect and when I say protect it's not just physically you got to protect Mentally against people trying to invade their brains and Turn them this way and turn them that way You know what I'm saying Both parents can do that But a dad it did different when your dad doing it Art and parcel of a gang culture because they will say to you you're like my brother I'm like your mom. I'm like your dad and what we will do is we'll look after you We'll protect you. You just need to do abc. You just need to carry this bag Don't look in the bag. Okay, you take it from here to ip switch Take it to ip switch and you deliver it somewhere and that kid just goes along does it because you know why? They earn 150 quid at the end of the day 150 quid that puts money on the table to buy food for that family It's a really horrible vicious circle and people will blame kids for being involved in that But these are kids that are already suffering trauma from a family where there's been abuse Where there's been violence where there's been sexual abuse. So when they come into these gangs They think they've been protected by other gang members, but they're not these gang elders are Vicious vile individuals. They will order. They will instruct. They will never get their hands dirty They'll never have blood on their own hands. Now you set up one of the first gang units at the Metropolitan police had established Was it any good? Did it did it have any successes? Has it had any impact today? Yeah, I mean what what we did was you said don't lie just because it's your project don't lie It might have been in that moment. You're having some success but long term There was already the integrated gangs unit at Hackney borough when I joined Hackney as the proactive lead for the gangs And we were being seriously criticized by the local authority by the community because of the fact that we had an integrated gangs unit Working with local authorities with education probation with charitable organizations. We actually weren't producing results Hackney was known then as the murder mile So we had to work differently And what we did was we worked much stronger in partnership We had to get funding because we didn't have the funding for it. I put a business case forward We actually worked with some people like the stop and search scrutiny group who are regularly criticized We had the gangs matrix then which is also subject to controversy at the moment But through that we identified four key members of uh, Hackney area's gangs and we targeted those Any of y'all watch like avengers Like any gang criminal organization. It's like the uh, it's like hydra It doesn't matter what you do. How many heads you cut off. I'm talking big gangs. No matter how many top dogs you take out There's gonna be more more are gonna pop up And the crazy part of this You like when you take out the top dog of a structure you create a power vacuum seal So everybody's going for the top spot to improve themselves. So it's gonna be crazy right then and there It's gonna be crazy. Some of them top dogs is holding the piece together Like in my mind said it's like, yo, this can't be changed. It is what it is not don't don't you ain't got to join them but like Realize what's going on You take that top dog off the streets. How many people are fighting for that power? six seven eight People are trying to get that spot a top spot. It's going to get real brutal on the streets until somebody wins and like I'm not condoning anything but i'm just saying like visuals and we Initiated a six-month operation But we didn't just target those individuals because what we wanted to do was get young kids out of gangs So we held jobs fairs. We did training for the officers on the front line We did better training for them around stop and search because actually That's where your information and your intelligence comes from and the job that you do is only as good as the information And the intel that you get from your local communities chris You were rewarded with an obe for your was chris like kids away from gangs and preventing them getting into gangs Give me some more solutions. What works? Well, this is what it's coming back down to like I said, I know it seems a little bit of blasphemy here all the time But you have to remember that these young people Have gone through a certain like experience for a certain sense of trauma and if you're not dealing with it in the right way So this is the reasons why our company is so important and many many other charities and companies out there are so important Working with young people. So it's not just the programs that we deliver But like you said getting them back into education making sure their understanding sense of their mental health Their well-being you know the ones that are making sure that they are able to live within us And at the end of the day you do start with the kids, man If you could change a whole generation of kids minds Into Steering them into a different direction than what they are used to seeing Then 10 years down the line, you are going to see that change It's not going to be as much because obviously the og's and the older people are either in jail They get no or they've they've moved along to the afterlife you know what i'm saying so All of the training cops and doing this and that yeah, you taking them off the street salute Salute that is like do your thing, but at the same time it's like you throwing a rock She throwing a rock in the ocean, you know what i'm saying But i'm not saying don't do what you're doing, but like focus more on the kids is my whole thing That's how you so nine times i attend with questioning these young people about why are you carrying a knife? Why are you doing this just go to college? Some of them don't even know the mental process on even how to get there Some of them don't even know certain things to have to keep themselves safe in the sense of what they're going through Black lives matter released True I like chris I like chris. It seemed like he got a real grip on what he got going on That this lady met police lady. She's I don't know I like son of course and maybe it's because she asked police. I just rubs me the wrong way but I've just be feeling like they be saying stuff just to make they self sound good at some times But she could be on or something you know i'm saying it sounded some of it So gang membership can by and large end up in imprisonment Death facts or both facts and everybody's contributions have shown that But why do people remain loyal to a gang in that culture? Impressionable kids have got something that I call gangsteritis They've watched too much scarface. They've watched too much Sopranos. They've watched too much top boy and they think These people are the idols. That's what they aspire to be Now when they get in the mix These real gangsters swallow these kids souls But they're so impressionable. They'll do absolutely anything for them in the beginning And it's only when the SWAT team comes And the gang members who are the so-called family are now trying to sleep with their girlfriends and don't want anything to do with them That the wake up why he just described six nine Did he not just describe what Shadi did to six nine? Call happens, but it's too late by then Peter because then they've got 10 or 20 30 year sentences The mums are the only ones coming to visit them at the jail. That's a fact That's a fact. Your homies is not going to see you not putting real money on your books And unless you've got like a year bid under a year bid, they'd not really after that first year you forgot about Just like in the rap game if you if you're a rapper and you step away from the rap game for too long You're forgot about the same concept here My mom came 5 000 miles and to see her In that visitation room with a broken face. It makes me sick to my stomach to this day I work in drugs education in schools and these kids have got to think This is a long road that you are on the glitz the glamour the fun the excitement is here Yeah, but as you get down that road, it's heartbreak for your mom. And as you said, it's the prison please death Seeing your mom was yeah seeing your mom was heartbreaking but see Seeing the them four walls For 23 hours a day. It's even more heartbreaking to you Hey, stay out of jail. I'm telling y'all don't go there Even the uk and whatever you're at watching this whatever country you're at and Stay out of there Germany y'all might could you know what I'm saying y'all having a good time in jail like y'all chilling y'all at the pool Y'all getting spray tans y'all cool But like uk Australia America especially america Stay out of jail. Is that the turning point or was there another or were there many? See my mom She's been outside for hours trying to get in sniff a dog strip, you know, so she's pat downs And she's come all this way All my money was taken they had to remortgage the house to get me a lawyer or I was facing 200 years or I'd still be in there now And I just feel blessed Peter to have such good parents. It's um It's something that lives with you for the rest of your life Yeah, of course, tragically many parents don't get the opportunity to go and visit their children They go to a graveside Um, if you had a message for any young person Watching this show What would that message be if they were being tempted if they were into the drill They were into the wearing the clothes and they were thinking They broke just saying the wearing the clothes You lost me right there Have some of that gang life What's basically based on what Sean just said in a sense of think about that long term You know like when you're with your gang and you're with your crew I know what he's alluding to but like you're also alluding to other things too with like clothes So, what do you think? People in the flats and the council houses should be wearing suits and ties You know how much a suit the tie is You know how much a pair of slacks hard It's so fine. It's so glitz and glamour But when that door closes and you know, you ain't got your And take price out of it because I know some of these tracksuits are expensive, but like no You know what I'm saying people in these flats coming up in these council houses Have never ever seen anybody in a suit except for when they went to court Like what? Friends, you know the gavel glitz and glamour That just blew me When the door closes and you know, you ain't got your friends You know the gang members don't even come up and visit you They don't even come and check in on you to see if you're okay. Your mum's there. What about the birthdays you miss now? What about the trips that you can't go on the country that you can't leave? What about children if you have children and these are the kind of things that I say to them I know that you feel like the gang and it's everything But just remember when it's all gone remember who you got left And sometimes you have nothing like you said family doesn't even come up sometimes because they're so sick and tired of coming up and supporting you And I always say to young people I'd be feeling like if you in that situation and you in the gang like Use them because as much as they're gonna use you try to stay out of it, but like if you like I can't like knock it like you know what I'm saying, but so it's like Try your best to stay out of it, but at the same time Make sure it's going both ways And just know that they're not going to be there when it when it's all upside down. It's all man for himself There is no honor amongst thieves. So all of that gang gang gang we together since potty chain I love my brother. No You get life They they're gonna go live their life probably have another child with your baby mama like Just keep in mind man Just like when you go to work Make sure you get in the best out of the work Make sure you get in the best out of your job situation Make sure you get in everything you can from that job Because at the drop of a dime they will disregard you you are not important to them They are you are replaceable Well, think about it. If a 30 year old man is tamed to you come and do this Ask yourself. Why is he standing there talking to you? Ask him the question. Why are you here? I'm 16. I know why I'm messing about on the street What are you doing? Where's your job? Why haven't you got your life together and start asking them questions ask yourself? Why is he why does he want to be You might want to ask yourself that in your mind don't straight out ask bro that because he might be like He might be having some inner demons going through some stuff and you might trigger something if you ask him that Stay safe With me. I'm 16. He's 35. Surely there's nothing something wrong with his mentality So that's what I want cunts kiss to start understanding and ask the question Fabulous shabnam What are the police going to do? What should they be doing? Have they got the resources to do it? What are they going to do to try and tackle this intractable problem? Policing has been given a huge amount of funding particularly across london by the mayor in terms of tackling gang violence But I think the two key issues are sat here right in this room You've got shawne there and you've got chris here the bottom line is unless you get people that have lived and breathed it You are not going to be able to communicate with young people. That's a fact. Okay. Okay. She's spitting facts now All right I don't know what just the ex-police thing just rubbed me the wrong way But she just spit the realest fact about her anybody spit Not anybody here, but anybody you know ex-police or police role Because whilst I had 31 years in policing and you've got some fantastic detectives and police officers out there You'll never know want to make it better for young people We are there to bring offenders to justice They will always be that barrier between the police and the General those involved in gangs if you get people that have lived and breathed it that I would have talked to them I would have talked them out of it to tell them there's no glamour in gangs It's a dirty murky Ugly world where you'll be very very lonely. There's no such thing as family within gangs Go daddy is apart. I just said that She ain't lying Well, thank you all No problem. It's been a pleasure But brilliant conversation and I'm indebted. I'm glad I could you know come on this show and be a part of it um And give a little insight. Cheers Now moving on to this week's postcode. No till you all leave a like comment subscribe turn on your postnotes I'm gone