 Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, everyone. And welcome to our second It Takes a Community Live. Today we'll be discussing an interesting topic with three tech startup managers who are changing and creating solutions for migrant workers globally and contributing positively to the discourse on migration. Today will be the last of our conversation which saw the business community taking over our social media channels over the past few weeks. And we saw lots and lots of different executives and startup funders and people from the business community providing us innovative solution in labor migrations worldwide. And I'm very excited today to be joined by our guests we have here, we have Stephanie Winev from the International Organizations of Employers. She's the head of stakeholder engagement. We have Andrew Stetsenko, the founder of Relocate Me. We have Enrique Jose Garcia, the managing partner of Dignify, Dignify AI, sorry. And Gabriel Ekman from BAG Innovation. Before I head over to Stephanie, just want to present the It Takes a Community campaign again for those of you who haven't looked at our ItTakesAcommunity.org. It Takes a Community is a global movement started by IOM and partners to celebrate our whole people regardless of where they are born are coming together and contributing to making our communities better places for us to live co-home. And today I'm again excited to be joined by our guests and we'll be discussing innovative labor migration solutions. So I head over to Stephanie to introduce the International Organizations of Employers and then we'll have a few questions with our guests today. And please leave your comments in our comment sections. We'll have a brief 10, 15 minutes Q&A at the end of our conversations where we'll be more than happy to answer to your questions. Stephanie, over to you. Yes, thanks. Good afternoon. I'm Stephanie Vignette from the International Organization of Employers. Two words about the IOE. We're a global employers association. We are based in Geneva and we have members across the world. Our members are the National Employers Federations in more than 150 countries. So we represent employers across regions. Mainly we address social and labor and employment issues. When it comes to migration, we have at the IOE a business advisory group on migration which is a network of businesses and employers who address questions related to migration. We have taken part in the, it takes a community campaign. We produced more than 20 videos of business leaders expressing why it's important for them to have regular migration frameworks to be able to access talents that they need in a very organized way. And we were also able through this campaign to launch our third IOE migration challenge which is basically a startup competition. We have selected a number of startups, tech startups who work on solutions on migration, so on the management of migration. And very specifically for this edition, which is the third edition, we were looking at solutions which could contribute to the positive narrative on migration. Our nine finalists were able to pitch their businesses to a panel, a jury panel last week and the winner was announced yesterday and we're super happy to have one of the winners with us today. So today we have among us our three guests. Luca are obviously the three winners of the three editions of the IOE migration challenge. And also to mention that we were very proud, this was announced last week that this IOE migration challenge startup competition was regarded as an SDG best practice by the United Nations. So this is really a great achievement also for us, for IOE and for the whole team and seed stars we're collaborating with on this competition. So this is in a nutshell how our engagement took place in the takes a community campaign. And I'm really thrilled to be here today and have this conversation with our three winners. Luca, shall we kick start with questions? Yes, please go ahead. We can introduce again the three guests. We have Andrew Stetsenko, the founder of Relocate Me, Enrique Jose Garcia, managing partner of Dignif AI and Gabriel Ekman from BAG Innovation. And again, welcome to everyone who is joining from the IOM and the IOE social media accounts. We're having lots of lots of people joining from all over the world. Very, very thrilled to have the conversation today. Stephanie, over to you again for the first few questions to our guests. Well, maybe since you just introduced our three guests, let us maybe ask them as a first question to briefly tell us what solution they provide to migration and maybe give us the three keywords that would characterize their startup. And why don't we start with Andrew, who's our happy winner, who was announced yesterday. Andrew, your three keywords characterizing your startup and how it contributes to the migration management. Yeah, first of all, hi everyone. I'm super happy to be here and thank you so much for having me. In terms of the keywords, the first one is definitely transparency. The second one I would say is, yeah, I'm a bit nervous. I guess the second one is community, that's for sure. And the third one is probably like, simplifying or like making things easier for the job seekers and for employees. And so just briefly about me, my name is Andrew. I'm founder of reliquid.me and reliquid.me is a job relocation prolet from mainly for IT professionals. And our ultimate goal is just to help job seekers find jobs easily and also as well as for companies that are looking for international talent to make hires as smooth as possible. So that's briefly about us. Thanks Andrew, make hires as smooth as possible. I think this is something that we heard a lot during the It Takes a Community business takeover. Thanks for that great solution. We'll get back to you soon. Maybe Enrique, your three words and how your situation contributes to migration management. Certainly, Stephanie Luca. And thank you for the opportunity to be here in this event of It Takes a Community. So our three key words would be AI for good, data labeling and labor integration. So Dignify operates in Venezuela and in Brazil and we offer outsourcing services of data labeling, data entry and data collection for companies that have artificial intelligence models. And this service allows us to create employment in these two regions for the most vulnerable communities affected by the Venezuelan migration crisis that's going down into South America. So we create micro work opportunities for vulnerable migrants and host communities in doing this data labeling work to function as a springboard for labor and social integration. Thank you, thank you. Thanks, Enrique. Job opportunity for the most vulnerable migrants. I think this is key and a great solution you're providing. Gabriel, you were the first winner of our first edition of the migration challenge. Your three words and description of your startup. Thank you very much. Pleasure to be here. I wrote down experience as one of them looking at the key importance of having experience entering into new markets. I also wrote down equality, equaling the level of playing ground for migrants just as well as entry level employers, employees in East Africa. We also wrote down gamification which is a huge importance for us working online, being able to gamify and meet the user on their terms and make it a fun experience while working online on the platform. As mentioned, my name is Gabriel. I'm the co-founder of Vag Innovation. It's an education technology based in East Africa in Rwanda. We offer a platform for experience-based learning using gamification. And what that means is basically we're providing a career tool for migrants and university students all over East Africa to measure their abilities to work with a specific employer, help them match, not depending on their degree, but depending on their actual skills and experience and being able to easily acquire a virtual experience online to enter the job market more effectively. Yep, that's pretty much back. Thanks, Gabriel. Enter the job market. I think that's also key for the migrant workforce, hard to make sure that they have the skills and the knowledge needed to be able to contribute to the job market. Great, I think we understand a bit what your solutions are about and we will have more time for you to develop a bit further. Now, since we're talking here about positive narrative and it takes a community is all about promoting this positive narrative. How, back to the three of you, how does your solution contribute to that positive narrative? How do you think that your startup is contributing to shifting that toxic narrative that we can hear in the media, in the public opinion? So maybe, Gabriel, back to you first. Thank you. Yeah, for us, we've seen that there's a clear shift when it comes to SMEs and employers all over East Africa that there's a huge skills lack that they're really struggling with. And if you put two people on a piece of paper and show them their experience score and their specific score on the test that they have with an employer, they will always choose the person who had the best score, disregarding their background or their ethnicity. And therefore, we've seen that if we can prove that a migrant without first showing that they're a migrant but showing their actual experience and showing their actual skills without the first showing them the profile, we can easily take away that first barrier that exists of not really easily being able to integrate migrants into your workplace. And we've been able to effectively do that in Rwanda and proving that that model really works. And the employers usually end up satisfied because they are looking for the most skilled worker for the specific system that they're filling. So for us, definitely about lowering that bias and lowering that barrier for the migrants to enter the workforce by first being able to prove themselves but also having a leveling playing ground when it comes to being able to acquire the experience that is necessary to enter that specific role. I would say that's how we're working against that. Yeah, it is, I think you're pointing to a really key point which is the fact that employers need skills and first and foremost. And we have also heard during these two weeks of business takeover that employers actually don't care where the skill comes from. And they just want to make sure that the person is able to fill in the job and fill in the job opening that they have. And I think this is key for them to have them acquire those skills and remove those barriers, as you were saying for them to be able to enter the job market and have the skills that they need to respond to those labor market needs. So it's a great, indeed, greatly contributing to the positive narrative. Enrique, I mean, in the Venezuelan context, there's a lot in terms of a public narrative to improve. So how do you think your solution is contributing to that? Certainly. So one of the challenges that we're facing here in terms of the narrative towards the migrant population is this idea that migrants are a competitor for job opportunities and are a drain on local resources from the perspective of the host countries. What we've learned in our time in operating dignify and being in these epicenter regions and the borders between Venezuela and Colombia and Venezuela and Brazil is that that narrative is often not correct. The narrative that migrants only want humanitarian aid or handouts is often secondary actually to the primary narrative that migrants want opportunities to integrate, find work and to become productive members of society. Now, the structural challenge with addressing that desire from the migrant population is that there simply aren't enough, there isn't enough of a supply of jobs for these migrants to integrate in and therefore they start finding jobs that the local community believes is their right to have. So the way we're addressing this is twofold. First of all, by focusing on the challenge of labor integration, there are other solutions that are addressing the humanitarian, the health, the educational challenges of this very large migration crisis. But we have consciously decided to address labor integration because of the positive multiplier effect that is possible through this product productivity integration narrative. And secondly, instead of trying to match them with the existing labor market here in Colombia, what we want to do is create new labor opportunities, expand the pie of the market labor by importing the global industry of artificial intelligence and in that way, not force a further competition of migrants against host communities for finding jobs. So ultimately, these are the two ways that we're addressing that narrative. This is fascinating, Enrique, because you're really talking about how migrants are perceived as competitors. And I think this is a perception because at some point, if employers have to rely on foreign workers on foreign skills, it means they don't have those skills available locally. And it's a wrong perception to say that migrants are competitors to the local market. I think you are right in saying we need to increase this pie. And indeed, your startup is working towards that and hopefully it will shift the narrative in that Venezuelan context. Andrew, back to you. How does your solution, you think, contribute to changing that narrative? You're looking at relocating tech talent. So we're maybe at a higher level of skills. So how do you think this will indeed contribute to changing the narrative? Yes, Stefanie, thank you so much for this question. I guess this is the unlawful fact that millions of jobs go on field every year in every country. So instead of just trying to fill the talent gap locally, there are a lot of opportunities to hire skilled people abroad. And that's obviously the solution for a lot of employers to success and to grow their company. I guess that the bad narrative about this is that probably hiring from abroad is something that is a complex process first. Probably that we can face people with other mindset, et cetera. But on the other hand, what we try to actually promote is that it's by increasing the diversity of your teams that makes it even stronger. You have different opinions. You have people from different backgrounds, especially if you want to build a global company, you definitely need to have a global team inside. So that's what we try to fix. We want to fix biases in hiring. That's something that you should open the border and you should open the world for the talent because they're everywhere. You can find that they're really talented people everywhere. And yeah, the key criteria that they should, in most cases, speak some kind of local language and also in most of the professions, they have the universal language. For example, in programming, you have JavaScript or Python or any other programming language. And this is universal language. You can speak it easily with anyone in the world. So that's what we try to fix in terms of employers. And for the job seekers, there's obviously a lot of uncertainty when you're looking for a job abroad. You don't know anything. You don't even know why no one replies to your resume and it's really challenging and it's really difficult for the person when you send 100 resumes not to get any feedback. So we also want to try to increase the percentage of our users to receive the positive feedback for the interview and then get invited for the interview and then have all the chances for you to be hired. It can be challenging and it can be very frustrating. So your staff, a migrant worker is starting his journey in a very frustrating way. If he, she doesn't receive answers to his applications and you're making this process a whole much easier for people to apply abroad to get work permits. And I think this is also a number one challenge for employers to get the work permits for their foreign workforce. So we do want to integrate and make sure that migrant workers can work. But at the end of the day, they need to have the right work permits, et cetera. I think you're really facilitating that process. I have a couple of questions too. Let me just step in for a second. I have one question for Gabriel first. How does your solution link skilled migrants to jobs? Yeah, so what we basically do is that we act as a virtual career guidance center. So we enable the migrants to do different job tests with specific employers. So if you're coming in as an accountant, for example, into a new country, we measure your ability to be an accountant with the local employers by giving you tests of the softwares that employers work with. We give you both soft skill and technical skill tests. It takes around five minutes per test. It's very simple and it's very gamified and it's very easy to use for anyone. And after that, we give them a full skills profile on bag innovation where we give them the scores. We tell them that you're 26% ready on a specific software that these employers are using. And therefore we can both measure them but also give them the advice that they need to pivot their career to be able to match the local market need. So what we do to match the skilled migrants is by testing them and then showing the employer that, hey, out of 10,000 people in the country who match your role, this person is the best one. And they're disregarding if they're migrant or not, they're gonna choose the person who delivered the best on those work posts. So we're basically enabling the migrant to easily access these and show that they have the abilities that anyone else in the market has on an equal point field. And then this is saved on an online profile similar to LinkedIn that you can extract. So we help you create a digital CV that you can then share with the film employer. And that is also attached with your work tests. So everything is always gonna be based on your actual experience and your score that you have on the platform, which takes away the bias of them looking at your CV and seeing that you're not from the country. Therefore, we're not gonna screen you in this process. That's super, super interesting. I have a second question for Enrique and then I'll give the floor back to Stephanie. Enrique, I was very interested by your first intervention and I'm wondering how does the artificial intelligence solutions that you have contribute to integrating migrant workers into the labor market? You can maybe elaborate a bit on that. Yes, definitely, Luca. So the way we present ourselves is that we are not creating artificial intelligence. We don't have a product that is managed by artificial intelligence. We're really a human centered service. The part of the artificial intelligence comes in that these human centered services, which is data labeling, data entry and data collection, we have a niche focus in offering these services to companies that have artificial intelligence. So a quick description of that process. To develop artificial intelligence, there's two ways of doing it. You can either teach the artificial intelligence via an algorithm that learns on itself with coding and programming with some of the languages that Andrew mentioned before. Or you can also teach the artificial intelligence by feeding it hundreds and thousands of examples of database or examples of images or text depending on the decisions that you want that artificial intelligence to take. So in feeding that database, each one of those images, for example, have to be labeled or classified or segmented in a particular way. And this is very labor intensive work that is of high repetition and high volume. So that stage in the supply chain of development of artificial intelligence is where we go in and dignify, we find those databases, we ask for them, we receive them and then that is what really feeds the backend employment opportunity which we give to our migrant and host community. So to summarize a little bit, we're utilizing artificial intelligence to create jobs, but we're not actually creating an artificial, we're not innovating in the artificial intelligence space. We're essentially a commodity that everyone in artificial intelligence needs at some point to create that technology, if that makes sense. Maybe Andrew also a follow up question to you because you talked about the challenges that tech workers may have when relocating and challenges and then I also talked about some frustration. Tell us a bit more about those challenges of migrant workers or tech workers when they try to relocate and how we could collectively address some of those challenges and how your startup obviously addresses those challenges. Yeah, thank you. This is a really good topic. The first one I would divide it like into two pieces. Like the first one is the challenges actually finding the job. Yeah, because if you want to move to a country A, probably you'll go to the local job boards and you send your resume to a number of companies, but for some reasons you don't get any reply even like the feedback why you're not accepted. So what we did, we just try to collect all the jobs from employers who will support you with getting a work visa as well as we also ask employers even to transparent way to present their relocation package. So how you will be supported during the move. So that's very important. As well like as a job seeker, you might have a thousands of questions like for example, what kind of resume should I send? Like what's the size of the resume? Should I include photo to my resume? Even like should I write a cover letter, et cetera, et cetera. So there are a number of questions that we try to also explain. We have a learning center. We have a lot of content and we try to educate job seekers on how to succeed on the international market. So this is the first topic. The second topic is actually the exploration phase. If you want to move to country A, to country B or to country C, you actually want to know a lot. Like you need to, you want to learn like how much money will you earn this country? What are the local salaries and what's the salary you could expect? How can I move my family? How can I get a work visa? If I don't have a higher education, if it's possible to move to this country? And also you can pick all this information from Google but you spend a lot of time and we also put all this data together in one place where you can actually research it before apply. So you can combine countries, you can buy salaries, you can combine employers and as I said in a transparent way. So that's both challenges. I would say that the job search challenges and kind of the exploration challenges that we try to solve and we try to put it kind of one stop shop that you just go to our website and yeah, you most likely 80% of your possible questions we try to answer. This is fascinating Andrew and I think many of our auditors are already looking at the three of your websites and maybe should we just repeat Luca the website so we can, everybody can have a look at the websites of our three startups. So we have Andrew relocate me dot me. Yeah, relocate dot me, that's it. Relocate dot me. Gabrielle, your website is bag innovation dot. Bag dot rw. Bag dot rw. Enrique, your website. Is dignify dot org, it's a tricky word but just think of dignify as it's usually written but instead of the why it's AI at the end like artificial intelligence. Dignify AI, well noted. So for our auditors go and look at the websites as we speak. I don't want to look at to take, I think we need to take some of the questions from our audience but I wanted to raise maybe another question from our side if I can Luca. I just was wondering because we know how challenging it is also for you startups to start a business from scratch and I mean, one of the first challenges just to get the funding to start with. So my question to you was how challenging it was for you to raise funds to get the things you needed to start your business in that very focused area of migration or skills because the three of you are focusing on migration. So how challenging has this been and did you see some walls or barriers because you were addressing what can be seen as some challenging issue when it comes to migration? Gabrielle first maybe. Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, obviously funding is one of the biggest challenge I think every startup in the world faces and especially in East Africa, it's not really a developed VC society and funding society as a whole. So for us, it was very much a combination between blended versions of equity, of convertible depth, of being able to do some friends, family and folks as well in the beginning. We've been running it now for the last four years back and it's been a great combination between our own revenues, grants and social projects as well. And I think for the challenge that we have specifically looking at migrants is that there's so many projects going on, especially from the nonprofit society, but to be able to get a foothold into the refugee camps into the locations where you can easily target a big group of migrants is a huge challenge. And it's something that we've struggled a lot with in general in East Africa, being able to track it because it's not something that is easily tracked. How do we access the users in a more conducive way? How can we plan, track and know exactly what kind of movements they will have so that we know in which phase they will be approaching our technology? So that's definitely a challenge for us. It's also about partnerships. So being able to, for example, if we want to go into Latin America, where do we even start to be able to approach such a solution and target migrants? And that's, I know I have dignified of course, but it's definitely something that is somehow feels like it's a huge bureaucracy around working with migrants because there are a lot of institutions that somehow control it sometimes. So for startups to get the foothold in and to be able to do a pilot, it requires you, for example, a setting like this where IOM and IOE partners and welcomes us and gives us the open door to be able to pilot this with a specific target group, which was a door opener for us by winning the competition that we did with this organization. So that's definitely some of the challenges that we face in that sense. And then in general, I think there is funding for migration and refugee development, but the threshold is fairly high. It's either $10 million or nothing. So there's not for a startup that only requires maybe $100,000 to do your pilots. It's hard to come up to that $1 million level. But yeah, that's my point of view. That's an interesting, how to find that balance between very low funding and skyrocketing funding that you actually don't need at a very seed level. Happy to hear that there is a partnership between the two migration challenge winners. And I think this is all about partnerships. And by the way, we have an alumni network of the finalists of the three editions. So we do hope that we can create network partnerships and help you grow and help you strive. And Rik, what about you regarding funding and how did you get those seed funding to start with? Yeah, so it's a compliment. Well, what Gabriel Gabriel was saying, there's different avenues that a startup can always take, especially a social startup. You have private capital, you have bootstrapped operation and you have grants. We're relatively young. So we've been operating for less than one year and we've maintained a very lean model from a cash flow perspective, which has allowed us to keep on operating and growing at a very patient rate with our bootstrapped capital and the revenue that we're generating. We've started earning some opportunities in grants. Grants are very, it's a very frustrating channel for capital because a lot of these grants take a lot of time, which is a lot of resources which obviously takes away from you operating and growing the business and focusing on the impact that you wanna have. And then in terms of private capital, which is our primary strategy moving forward, I think every startup has that challenge in order, before you do, so you have to really understand the skeletons of your business, what are your margins, what is your growth, what is your value proposition, the pain points that you're addressing. But then you also have the additional challenges of being a social business where you are consciously dedicating part of your resources to have to invest in that impact that you're investing in and you're obviously, at least in the case of us, we're competing against other businesses that do the exact same service that we do that are 100% pure profit. So if we are both going towards the same investor from a financial perspective, there might be a disadvantage or a difference there, but it all depends on who you're pitching to. So for us, it's just a matter of being very strategic, finding impact investors who are interested in investing in a business that is for profit, but also for impact. And I think that's a growing trend in many regions. I think in Latin America, we're still a little bit behind there, certainly in Europe and in the US, there's a lot of impact investors. So it's about being strategic, being timely and planning it very well. Very good point, having impact. And I think this is what the three startups are looking for, having impacts on the ground. And that's definitely helpful to get interests into your projects. So this is also a call for our audience. Funding is always welcome. So this is also a call for our audience to see whether there is interest in the three startups we have with us. Andrew, tell us about your challenges when it came to starting your startups, startup and with the funding challenges. Yeah, for sure. I solved them really easily. We are not funded, we are bootstrapped up today. And the goal was to build a profitable company from day one. So I might not be the best expert in finding, but I'm pretty skilled in terms of how to launch the company with limited amount of money. And I would definitely recommend, because there are a lot of problems actually that you might solve from the immigration community. But the biggest challenge is to find the viable business model where you can actually help people as well as you can actually earn money that could also accelerate the growth of your business. And then I would suggest focus on the community and to build community first instead of even write a simple line of code. So you can definitely collect feedback from your future users. You can definitely start with the customer development with your future paid customers and to ask what are their problems, for what solutions they're going to pay and try to mix them and to try to match them, all these problems and solutions. And also right now you don't need even to be a developer to make a tech startup. You can start with like no code solutions. You can make the website easily as well. So you have some traction in terms of the community. I would highly recommend go to the internet, share your product with LinkedIn, with Facebook, with your audience. Go to product hunt, go to Hacker News, go to many other platforms where you can actually share your product and most importantly, get some feedback. What could be improved is the idea viable and then like iterate step by step. So yeah, I'm not the best expert in funding, but definitely if you want to go small, know your pain points, know your users and build the community. I guess that's also super helpful. Okay, just a couple of questions from the public because we've been online for 40 minutes and we probably tried to wrap everything up in 10, 15 minutes. There's a good, there's an interesting question from Daria or Andrew. She's asking Andrew, would your startup consider expanding to include jobs and relocation tips in other sectors? For instance, the Unitarian one, as organization and companies in other sectors struggle even more than the IT sector with providing business sponsorships due to lower revenues. I'm just also posting it here for you to read. Yeah, Daria, thank you so much for this question. Yeah, absolutely. We choose IT sector just the thing that we can get started because easily it's easily to focus in one community and auditory of people that you know and then to scale it to another. You definitely can't do it, like you can't feel all the professionals in one place. You definitely need to understand the problems in this industry. So definitely once we move, we also receive more requests for other professionals, for example, like marketing, sales, engineering in general. So definitely once we go to scale, we definitely go to add more professionals but also like the challenges that you need to know this industry. You need to have at least some understanding like how the industry operates. You need to have some connections, et cetera. So that's why I probably take a bit of time to learn new industry and then go and scale your product. Thank you. There is another question from Alex, which is quite interesting, I think. Let's see, how do you respond to the idea that making profit depends on people depending on people in a refugee camp could be a factor in ensuring that you maintain your profit base at low cost. And the second part of the question, I ask because I saw many startups trying to work in Kahuma and it seems to disincentivize ensuring camps are temporary options and not a captive profit base. And she's asking as an NGO who wants to take this one off. Quite a few. I'll give it a shot. Yeah. I don't have experience in a refugee camps, but I'll take the opportunity to answer a little bit about that balance between profit and impact. And my perspective has always been that the promise of a for-profit impact startup or for-profit impact business is aligning the financial sustainability and the efficient uses of resources for the long-term. So in our case, for example, what we're seeing here on the ground, which is the perspective I can bring to the table in the Colombian-Benz-Israelan borders, that there are a lot of NGOs that come in with very specific and short-term initiatives. An initiative for six months, an initiative for one year to comply with YX or Z goals, which are very necessary and very important. When it comes to labor integration, in our case, for example, six months and 12 months is not enough of a timeframe to address this challenge, which is a challenge that has to be addressed in a timeframe of five to 10 years. In our perspective, we're talking about over five million displaced Venezuelans, two million just in Colombia. So this is a generational issue that we won't be able to address in such a short timeframe. Having said that, because of that long-term marathon perspective for a business, it is vital to use resources efficiently with that long-term timeframe to ensure that you're around in five years or in 10 years and not just spending and investing with a short-term timeframe where you might have a very positive impact in six months to 12 years, but if there's no positive cash flow generation or no efficient use of your business financial sustainability, then you won't be able to be around for that long-term. So that's the way that I try to defend or try to promote our perspective of having a for-profit model that can equally have impact, social impact goals at the same time. I hope that answers at least a perspective. I think it does. Let's maybe one last question for... Something happened, Stephanie. Maybe she, maybe her internet went off. Just one last question, and maybe not all of you can answer, but if you feel maybe give a short one, what advice would you give to someone or anyone who is about to start his or her own startup if you can give any tips? I know this is a generic question, but as people and tech entrepreneurs, we've been probably asked this question millions of times, so let's do it a million and one for those who are interested in having their own tech startups or startup businesses in 2021. Well, I can start on that one. I would say that one breakthrough that happened for us in starting our business was finding the right type of advisor. In the beginning, you asked an entrepreneur what you thought was good at doing business and you asked them for some support, but they actually knew nothing about your industry or nothing about your business model. But for us, we had a breakthrough and we started becoming much more intentional with what type of expert we want advising us and someone who's gone through a very much more similar journey to what we've gone through who can advise us much more accurately. So for us, finding the right type of advisor gave us a huge breakthrough in the way that we started growing more intentionally. And on top of that, I would say fail fast. Yes, it was the failures where we learned the most and we spent a couple of years, one or two years doing a lot of mistakes, but those are the ones that really shaped the right model that we have today. So I would say fail fast and not be demotivated by that. Continue working on the solution, continue asking the people around you how to pivot it, what you can do better and do that. You have to have grit. You have to have one, two years of patience to be able to see the fruit of your work. So I would say those two are really breakthrough for us is that the advisors and the ability to fail fast. Thank you. Yeah, I wouldn't add much more. I think those are excellent points. I would just say just a compliment is that when you're starting, keep that patient's mentality, iterate, fail fast and therefore have very patient capital to start. Don't overspend, don't overinvest. You're going to need a lot of time anyways to learn and to fail. So you might as well do it the leanest way possible to not overwhelm the business and not overwhelm yourself mentally. So patient capital and patient operation. Super great points. It's really hard to add something, but I would say probably the final thing is just to put your users, put your clients in front of your business. They're actually like the people that you're going to serve, you're going to solve their problems. So try to actually walk in their shoes. Try just to understand them as much as possible. Speak to them as much as possible before you even invest the penny. So that would be my advice. Thank you all. Stephanie, maybe over to you for a couple of final thoughts and then we can wrap this session up. Sure, sure. Well, this was really fascinating. And you know, we all say, and this is the proof of it, that the private sector is very diverse. We have multinationals, we have employers organizations, we have business industry associations, and we have startups. We have entrepreneurs. And entrepreneurs, startups are a part of the private sector and are part of the stakeholders we need to engage with when we want to find solutions and impact on migration. And there are really a good partners to find solutions for governments when they try to solve some of the migration challenges they have locally. So this is a call really to all to leverage technology, to leverage startups. We want, nobody will be able to solve the migration challenges by their own. No government can do that by themselves. No private company can go and solve any issue by themselves. We need to sit together with international organizations, with the startup community, with the employers community, and with the government. And I think this conversation was really a proof that through partnership, through collaboration, we can really achieve very concrete goals. And the three winners of the IOE startup competition really prove that we can have impact on the ground, on job creation, employment for migrant workforce, in relocation solutions, in skills matching, in addressing the skills that are needed on the labor market. And in the end of the day, in improving those regular frameworks that we all need for migration to work for all. So this is, those are my concluding words coming out of this very fruitful session. I wish our three startups full success. I wanted to hear more about it. I wanted to hear about the future, to see what they need today, but I understand time is short. And I hand it over to you Luca to close the session. Thank you all. Thank you. So this brings us to the end of our second, It Takes a Community Live. Today we had the pleasure of, of welcoming three tech startup founders. We had Andrews Tetsenko from relocate me, Henrique Jose Garcia from Dignif AI and Gabriel Ekwin from BAG Innovation. I also want to thank Stephanie Winnett from the International Organization of Employers for co-moderating this session with me. And I invite all of you again to visit the It Takes a Community.org, join our campaign and stay tuned for more conversation throughout the rest of the summer. Thank you very much again for being with us today. And thank you all to our guests for joining our conversation. Thank you again. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye-bye.